21:45:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
21:45:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/17-html-a11y-irc
21:45:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
21:45:47 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
21:45:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
21:45:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
21:45:50 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
21:45:50 <trackbot> Date: 17 March 2014
21:45:59 <MarkS> agenda+ hit regions as Paths vs Pixels (Rik's email) [2]
21:45:59 <MarkS>     agenda+ How events are handled. (Rik's email) [2]
21:45:59 <MarkS>     agenda+ Review Hit Regions in Editor's Draft [1]
21:46:00 <MarkS>     agenda+ Possible Coordination meeting at HTML WG F2F April 8-9
21:46:02 <MarkS>     agenda+ Next Meeting
21:46:56 <MarkS> Meeting: Canvas Accessibility Sub-Group Teleconference
21:47:08 <MarkS> chair: MarkS
21:47:12 <MarkS> scribe: MarkS
21:59:16 <Zakim> WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has now started
21:59:23 <Zakim> + +1.617.319.aaaa
21:59:30 <MarkS> zakim, aaaa is me
21:59:30 <Zakim> +MarkS; got it
21:59:46 <MarkS> rrsagent, make minutes
21:59:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/17-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS
22:01:10 <jaymunro> jaymunro has joined #html-a11y
22:02:07 <Zakim> +cabanier
22:02:20 <MarkS> zakim, agenda?
22:02:20 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
22:02:21 <Zakim> 1. hit regions as Paths vs Pixels (Rik's email) [from 2 via MarkS]
22:02:21 <Zakim> 2. How events are handled. (Rik's email) [from 2 via MarkS]
22:02:21 <Zakim> 3. Review Hit Regions in Editor's Draft [from 1 via MarkS]
22:02:21 <Zakim> 4. Possible Coordination meeting at HTML WG F2F April 8-9 [from MarkS]
22:02:21 <Zakim> 5. Next Meeting [from MarkS]
22:02:29 <jaymunro> I'll be a minute late
22:05:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
22:05:42 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
22:07:06 <MarkS> zakim, take up first item
22:07:06 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up first item', MarkS
22:07:15 <MarkS> zakim, take up next item
22:07:15 <Zakim> agendum 1. "hit regions as Paths vs Pixels (Rik's email)" taken up [from 2]
22:07:17 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
22:07:24 <jaymunro> zakim, microsoft has me
22:07:24 <Zakim> +jaymunro; got it
22:08:33 <MarkS> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/2dcontext/html5_canvas_CR/#hit-regions
22:09:17 <MarkS> MS: What does WHAT WG say?
22:09:20 <MarkS> RC: It says pixels too
22:09:47 <MarkS> ...it doesn't really matter, but when you start doing calculations, it will be much harder to do those on pixels rather than paths.
22:10:18 <MarkS> ...like determining if there are any pixels on the canvas (if not, triggers clearing of the region list)
22:10:52 <MarkS> MS: Will that cause any issues since Path is not in spec?
22:11:02 <MarkS> RC: no, because we already have the current default path.
22:11:19 <MarkS> JM: Will it affect how it gets implemented once Path gets developed
22:11:21 <MarkS> RC: no
22:12:01 <MarkS> ...it will be change the spec a bit.  clear region that covers the pixels.
22:12:32 <MarkS> MS: removeHitRegion refers to pixels too
22:12:42 <MarkS> RC: and the garbage collection algorithm
22:12:53 <MarkS> ...step 11
22:13:24 <MarkS> JM: so remove that completely?
22:13:27 <MarkS> RC: yes, I think so
22:13:56 <MarkS> ...clear regions that cover the pixels
22:14:09 <MarkS> ...region for a pixel should stay
22:15:07 <MarkS> ...as it is, you have to transcribe the canvas to a bit map and analyze every pixel.  expensive operation.
22:16:52 <MarkS> MS: would have to change step 7 which refers to pixels as well
22:17:01 <MarkS> RS: Nobody wants to start checking pixels
22:17:31 <MarkS> s/step 7/addHitRegion step 7
22:17:52 <MarkS> RC: reword to "Hit Region's path"
22:18:47 <MarkS> MS: Step 11 in addHitRegion
22:18:57 <MarkS> RC: that one goes away.  That is the problem step.
22:19:45 <MarkS> zakim, take up next item
22:19:45 <Zakim> agendum 2. "How events are handled. (Rik's email)" taken up [from 2]
22:20:25 <MarkS> RC: set an email to WHAT WG and Ian made a bunch of changes to how events are handled.  Not quite sure he answered my question.
22:20:42 <MarkS> RS: the event just goes to the object that's registered
22:20:55 <MarkS> ...oh, so there is no handler?  It will bubble anyway
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22:21:34 <MarkS> RC: the event target is the canvas, not the fallback element.
22:21:41 <MarkS> RS: it should
22:21:45 <MarkS> RC: the spec doesn't say that
22:21:59 <MarkS> RS: We need to work on the spec to make it say that then
22:22:04 <MarkS> RC: It currently says, "change the target"
22:22:12 <MarkS> RS: Redirect?  Dispatch the target?
22:22:24 <MarkS> RC: that doesn't change the target attribute on the event.
22:23:15 <MarkS> ...if you don't change the handler, you can end up sending the event to the fallback when you want to send it to canvas
22:23:47 <MarkS> RS: we need to specify that it bubbles up until an element is ready to handle the event.
22:24:38 <MarkS> RC: Robert Ocallahan had question about default action.
22:24:46 <MarkS> ...would be difficult to implement
22:24:53 <MarkS> RS: you would have to write a handler.
22:25:04 <MarkS> ...the user could always create the handler
22:25:52 <MarkS> ...nothing in the spec says we have to have a default action
22:26:10 <MarkS> ...cynthia shelley wanted to have something like that, but we couldn't et enough implementations for aria 1
22:26:25 <MarkS> ...i think this is a reasonable expectation for now.
22:26:56 <MarkS> MS: any future compatibility issues if we introduce this in L2
22:27:16 <MarkS> RS: yeah, maybe.  we would have to figure out where it goes.
22:27:29 <MarkS> ...you would have to have a handler on it to activate it.
22:28:52 <MarkS> RC: if you click on upper corner of the region...
22:29:00 <MarkS> RS: no fallback elements, canvas is one single object
22:29:20 <MarkS> ...should be relative to the canvas
22:29:37 <MarkS> ...set the location, and have the offset for x,y be within the canvas element.
22:29:54 <MarkS> RC: the spec doesn't say recalculate where you click.
22:30:21 <MarkS> RS: if you have a div in html, the x,y position is relative to that div.  shouldn't it be the same?
22:30:43 <MarkS> RC: if you want that, it needs to be in the spec
22:32:01 <MarkS> JM: if someone can sketch it out, I can write it.
22:32:54 <MarkS> RS: in my mind, the x, y position would be relative to the bounding rectangle for that button.
22:33:18 <MarkS> ...if nothing hit the region the location would be based on it relative to the bounding box of the canvas.
22:34:32 <MarkS> RC: Ian made a bunch of changes that we might want to pull in as well.
22:34:58 <MarkS> ...he also refers to other parts of the HTML spec as well.  touch events...  he changed how click handlers work.
22:35:12 <MarkS> ...do you want to have mouse in and out events too?
22:35:57 <MarkS> RS: well, we know when the mouse is over the region.
22:36:40 <MarkS> RC: i can see you wanting that, but it would be a lot of work to add on on mouse in and out
22:37:27 <MarkS> RS: I think the author would want that... but I can see how it would be additional work.
22:37:40 <MarkS> RC: we could inform the author
22:38:00 <MarkS> RS: We could have the keyboard handler and the mouse handler in the same place
22:38:19 <MarkS> ...so the layout engine knows where these things are?
22:38:23 <MarkS> RC: not really
22:38:27 <MarkS> RS: oh...
22:39:06 <MarkS> RC: it would get really complex
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22:40:08 <MarkS> ...i have been doing some experiments.  on the canvas element itself, I can add a handler that tests if the mouse is over a hit region.
22:40:59 <MarkS> RS: To get this done, for canvas 1 we would handle clicks, and general mouse events, (move) save mouse in and out for canvas l2.
22:43:08 <MarkS> RC: seems like Ian's changes would make it much more difficult to implement.
22:44:36 <MarkS> RS: if the user moves the mouse over the canvas, accessible object from point will not work.
22:44:54 <MarkS> RC: i think it will.  that is how the a11y tools do it.
22:45:14 <cabanier_> link to updated event handling: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/the-canvas-element.html#canvas-mouseevent-rerouting-steps
22:46:20 <MarkS> JM: would the author be responsible for recording the location of the region so that he can perform calculations for determining mouse in and mouse out?
22:46:24 <MarkS> RC: yeah
22:46:42 <MarkS> JM: OK, so when he calls addHitRegion
22:50:04 <MarkS> agenda?
22:50:10 <MarkS> zakim, close item 2
22:50:10 <Zakim> agendum 2, How events are handled. (Rik's email), closed
22:50:12 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:50:12 <Zakim> 3. Review Hit Regions in Editor's Draft [from 1 via MarkS]
22:50:24 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
22:50:25 <Zakim> -cabanier
22:50:26 <Zakim> -MarkS
22:50:27 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
22:50:28 <Zakim> WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has ended
22:50:28 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.617.319.aaaa, MarkS, cabanier, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, jaymunro
22:50:41 <MarkS> rrsagent, make minutes
22:50:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/17-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS
23:22:02 <chaals> chaals has joined #html-a11y