13:16:05 RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y 13:16:05 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/14-mobile-a11y-irc 13:16:07 RRSAgent, make logs 328 13:16:09 Zakim, this will be 13:16:09 I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 13:16:10 Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference 13:16:10 Date: 14 March 2014 13:16:15 zakim, this will be 6283 13:16:17 ok, Kathy; I see WAI_MATF()10:00AM scheduled to start in 44 minutes 13:16:27 rrsagent, make log world 13:16:35 meeting: Mobile A11Y TF 13:16:43 chair: Kathy Wahlbin 13:18:02 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Mar/0011.html 13:18:55 agenda+ Keyboard Access & Mobile 13:19:00 agenda? 13:19:24 zakim, clear agenda 13:19:24 agenda cleared 13:19:32 agenda+ Keyboard Access & Mobile 13:19:47 agenda+ Review of BBC Comparison 13:19:54 agenda+ Next Steps 13:19:59 agenda? 13:20:39 Regrets: Jan, Gavin, Kathleen 13:28:17 KimPatch has joined #mobile-a11y 13:29:15 agenda? 13:51:47 WAI_MATF()10:00AM has now started 13:51:54 +Kim_Patch 13:52:52 +Kathy_Wahlbin 13:54:26 jeanne has joined #mobile-a11y 13:57:20 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Technique_Development_Assignments 13:57:57 AlanSmith has joined #mobile-a11y 13:58:35 +Alan_Smith 13:59:50 DavidTodd has joined #mobile-a11y 14:01:19 jon_avila has joined #mobile-a11y 14:01:56 +jon_avila 14:03:35 +David_Todd 14:05:05 zakim, take up first 14:05:05 I don't understand 'take up first', KimPatch 14:05:26 zakim, next item 14:05:26 agendum 1. "Keyboard Access & Mobile" taken up [from Kathy] 14:05:46 http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-UAAG20-20131107/#intro-modality-independence 14:06:00 Kim: UAAG came up with this note 14:06:00 Note: Users interacting with a web browser may do so using one or more input methods including keyboard, mouse, speech, touch, and gesture. It's critical that each user be free to use whatever input method or combination of methods works best for a given situation. If every potential user task is made accessible via modality independent controls that any input technology can access, a user 14:06:01 can use what works best. For instance, if a user can't use or doesn't have access to a mouse, but can use and access a keyboard, the keyboard can call a modality independent control to activate an OnMouseOver event. See Independent User Interface: Events for additional information on APIs and techniques for modality independent controls. 14:06:32 Kim: UAAG is now discussing this as they have had comments about touch 14:07:20 http://www.w3.org/TR/indie-ui-events/ 14:08:54 q+ 14:09:13 scribe: Kim 14:11:48 Jon: need notes under understanding 14:13:01 Kathy: we can't change success criteria, we can change understanding, we can add a definition. The success criteria is always going to reference keyboard. Given that do we define what we mean by keyboard which is what was done by UAAG, or modify all 14:13:13 Jon: also confusion between keyboard and on-screen keyboard 14:13:35 Kathy: on a mobile device on-screen keyboard, Bluetooth keyboard, switch devices, touch and gestures 14:13:59 Jon: voice activation 14:14:07 Kathy: camera for tracking head movement 14:14:59 Jon: braille displays, braille input device. Android and iOS different. 14:15:00 iportal device power wheelchairs, but we don't want to get into those types of details 14:15:20 q+ 14:15:36 +Jeanne 14:17:49 Kathy: accessibility support – what would that look like. All those different devices are dependent on the actual device and iOS is different from android, but how would we if we do that under accessibility support we would still have to address it somewhere in understanding, sufficient, failures 14:18:32 Jon: more general techniques versus more specific techniques for platforms – I don't think we're going to make everybody happy but if we could create some specific techniques to decide how things could be done for a particular platform I think it could be useful. It would be a lot of work if we go too far that direction. But I would like to see the techniques be mobile specific and if we can... 14:18:33 ...more general 14:18:47 Kathy: example mobile specific for a platform 14:19:37 Jon: physical keyboard can only be used with input controls, but switch control, voiceover as an example. Also assistive touch, but clearly switch control and voiceover are looking at the programmatic aspects, switch allows it to be focused, voiceover allows it to be interacted with 14:21:10 q+ 14:21:15 Jeanne: in the past we've defined keyboard to include keyboard emulators, also general applicability note saying keyboard does not include just physical keyboard but also emulators – that's as far as we've gone 14:22:31 Jon: we don't want to force people into a technology that's unrealistic. we don't want to encourage that the only input is keyboard access. If I have an app and it happens that it's not accessible to screen reader users and screen reader users have to carry around an extra keyboard to access it it seems like a fundamental change in how it would have to be used – requiring someone to carry an... 14:22:32 ...external keyboard doesn't seem like an equivalent method of access. Maybe we technically meet the requirements but I would hate for people to have to go down that route. 14:22:48 Jon: I could see that happening in android, where we have all the keyboard shortcuts, but in order to use them you need a keyboard 14:23:30 Kathy: with touch the default that we want to make sure we had available – we look at what the device comes with, a PC needs a keyboard. On a mobile device you have to have the screen. You could have a keyboard attached to it and not a touchscreen, but most of them have a touchscreen, so how do we go about saying what is sufficient for a particular technique 14:24:25 Kathy: touch if it's not available to a screen reader is not equivalent, but what do we say to a developer – you have to support this or is it as simple as an equivalent method for all users, so if torch is available it's available both for screen readers and not screen readers, but what about people with mobility impairments who can't do touch 14:24:40 Jeanne: it's complicated. You do want to have a keyboard people who are deaf blind – that's how they communicate with a braille device 14:25:29 Alan: do we want to say the keyboard is also supported, not exclusive, but also supported. Gestures should also be supported by keyboard, but they don't have to have a keyboard, but if they do 14:30:01 Jon: if we do have the independent UI that would solve my concern 14:30:29 David: does anyone have a timeline for when browsers will implement indieUi, I'm concerned that it may not be implemented for two or three years down the road 14:31:03 zakim, who is talking 14:31:03 I don't understand 'who is talking', jon_avila 14:31:30 Jeanne: there is not a timeline yet – that's not the way we've worked. I can say that I know that Apple is very active in in DUI right now so I would expect that as things are developed Apple is very involved, but I don't know if Google is or android 14:32:15 Kathy: I like the principle of indieUI and modality independent control, but I think we have to define what that means now in terms of control 14:32:22 zakim, who is talking? 14:32:35 jon_avila, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jeanne (15%), Kathy_Wahlbin (37%) 14:33:13 Jeanne: this may be something we have to address and individual success criteria rather than having a broad statement 14:34:00 Jon: I don't think we saw this right now, keep thinking about it, maybe solicit input from other groups 14:34:59 Kathy: WCAG is interested in what we are thinking about this as well. The bottom line is as we are going through the different techniques and the understanding document, making note of where we think we need to address this and then we can pull all those items together where this is an issue and try to figure out what we want to do at that level 14:35:15 Kathy: at least make notes at this point and then have another discussion as well 14:36:22 Kathy: still have some open topics, if we can have the majority of them done by the end of the month then we can start going into them. We'll start with the general techniques and then branch out to the other techniques. If you have ones that have been assigned that are done please try to get them done before the end of the month that if you have additional bandwidth please sign up for more 14:36:30 zakim, next item 14:36:30 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, KimPatch 14:36:35 I can get my designated section reviewed/completed by end of month. 14:38:24 Kathy: BBC comparison – goal is to do a gap analysis so we can see new items that might be in there and maybe things that can be added to existing techniques. The purpose is to get a clear list of things leveraging the work that's been done by other groups and other people 14:38:39 q- 14:38:47 q- 14:38:56 zakim, next item 14:38:56 agendum 3. "Next Steps" taken up [from Kathy] 14:39:30 Kathy: no meeting next week, understanding documents and techniques will be the focus of the next meeting 14:40:18 Kathy: good discussion on keyboard we will regroup again after we have gone through the techniques and understanding documents. We will summarize this on a wiki page so that we can go back 14:40:46 -jon_avila 14:40:47 -Alan_Smith 14:40:47 -David_Todd 14:41:58 zakim, list participants 14:41:58 As of this point the attendees have been Kim_Patch, Kathy_Wahlbin, Alan_Smith, jon_avila, David_Todd, Jeanne 14:42:10 rrsagent, make minutes 14:42:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/14-mobile-a11y-minutes.html KimPatch 14:42:35 rrsagent, make logs public 14:43:50 rrsagent, bye 14:43:50 I see no action items