16:20:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #coga
16:20:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/03/03-coga-irc
16:20:55 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, list conferences
16:20:55 <Zakim> I see SW_HCLS(BioRDF)11:00AM, SW_LDP()10:00AM, DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM, Team_NewServ()9:00AM active
16:20:57 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time is Team_JEFF()11:00AM
16:32:19 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, list conferences
16:32:19 <Zakim> I see SW_HCLS(BioRDF)11:00AM, SW_LDP()10:00AM, DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM, Team_NewServ()9:00AM active
16:32:21 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time is Team_JEFF()11:00AM
16:41:36 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, list conferences
16:41:36 <Zakim> I see SW_HCLS(BioRDF)11:00AM, DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM, Team_NewServ()9:00AM active
16:41:39 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time is Team_JEFF()11:00AM
16:43:23 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, this will be WAI_CogTF
16:43:23 <Zakim> ok, Lisa_Seeman; I see WAI_CogTF()12:00PM scheduled to start in 17 minutes
16:43:41 <Lisa_Seeman> regrets: Katie Haritos Shea, Mary Jo Mueller
16:43:48 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda: this
16:44:04 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+ Set scribe
16:44:16 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+ Any new issues and  introductions
16:44:21 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+ dyscalculia
16:44:29 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+ Review of other work done
16:44:37 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+ Actions
16:44:43 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+ be done
16:52:27 <Zakim> WAI_CogTF()12:00PM has now started
16:52:34 <Zakim> +??P0
16:53:44 <Lisa_Seeman> regrets: Barry Johnson
16:54:10 <Lisa_Seeman> ??P0 is Lisa_Seeman
16:54:23 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, ??P0 is Lisa_Seeman
16:54:23 <Zakim> +Lisa_Seeman; got it
16:59:59 <Lisa_Seeman> Zakim, who is noisy?
16:59:59 <Michel_> Michel_ has joined #coga
17:00:15 <Zakim> Lisa_Seeman, listening for 14 seconds I could not identify any sounds
17:00:46 <Liddy> Liddy has joined #coga
17:00:48 <Zakim> +Debra_Ruh
17:00:55 <Zakim> +JohnRochford
17:01:01 <janina> zakim, code?
17:01:01 <Zakim> the conference code is 2642 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), janina
17:01:07 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #coga
17:01:17 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, who's here?
17:01:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Lisa_Seeman, Debra_Ruh, JohnRochford
17:01:18 <karlgroves> karlgroves has joined #coga
17:01:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see JohnRochford, Liddy, Michel_, RRSAgent, Zakim, Lisa_Seeman, st_afk, MichaelC, janina
17:01:32 <Zakim> +??P6
17:01:34 <Zakim> +NeilMilliken
17:01:38 <janina> akim, ??P6 is me
17:01:47 <janina> zakim, ??P6 is me
17:01:47 <Zakim> +janina; got it
17:01:50 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, who's here?
17:01:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see Lisa_Seeman, Debra_Ruh, JohnRochford, janina, NeilMilliken
17:01:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see karlgroves, JohnRochford, Liddy, Michel_, RRSAgent, Zakim, Lisa_Seeman, st_afk, MichaelC, janina
17:02:19 <neilmilliken> neilmilliken has joined #coga
17:02:27 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:02:38 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
17:02:43 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #coga
17:02:49 <Zakim> +MichelC
17:02:56 <Zakim> +??P9
17:02:56 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, who's here?
17:02:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see Lisa_Seeman, Debra_Ruh, JohnRochford, janina, NeilMilliken, [IPcaller], [IPcaller.a], MichelC, ??P9
17:02:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see richardschwerdtfeger, neilmilliken, karlgroves, JohnRochford, Liddy, Michel_, RRSAgent, Zakim, Lisa_Seeman, st_afk, MichaelC, janina
17:03:22 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:03:27 <MichaelC> zakim, IPcaller is Karl_Groves
17:03:27 <Zakim> +Karl_Groves; got it
17:03:32 <MichaelC> zakim, IPcaller.a is Liddy_Nevile
17:03:33 <Zakim> +Liddy_Nevile; got it
17:05:00 <Liddy> I can't volunteer because my line drops regularly, sorry
17:05:17 <Liddy> I can try
17:05:38 <MichaelC> MichaelC has changed the topic to: Cognitive Accessibility Task Force: Zakim 2642
17:05:51 <MichaelC> scribe: Liddy
17:05:54 <janina> scribe: liddy
17:05:55 <MichaelC> ack me
17:06:08 <MichaelC> scribe: Liddy
17:06:30 <Liddy> LS: struggling to get scribe
17:07:52 <janina> zakim, agenda?
17:07:52 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
17:07:53 <Zakim> 1. Set scribe [from Lisa_Seeman]
17:07:53 <Zakim> 2. Any new issues and  introductions [from Lisa_Seeman]
17:07:53 <Zakim> 3. dyscalculia [from Lisa_Seeman]
17:07:53 <Zakim> 4. Review of other work done [from Lisa_Seeman]
17:07:53 <Zakim> 5. Actions [from Lisa_Seeman]
17:07:53 <Zakim> 6. be done [from Lisa_Seeman]
17:07:57 <Liddy> LS; main agenda item is prelim review for dyscalcula etc to see how to do it - no need to be perfect yet
17:08:20 <janina> zakim, close item 1
17:08:20 <Zakim> agendum 1, Set scribe, closed
17:08:21 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:08:21 <Zakim> 2. Any new issues and  introductions [from Lisa_Seeman]
17:08:37 <Liddy> LS: CSun breakfast reservation for Wednesday breakfast
17:09:03 <janina> zakim, next item
17:09:03 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Any new issues and  introductions" taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
17:09:11 <Zakim> + +1.502.632.aaaa
17:09:55 <Lisa_Seeman> ??+1.502.632.aaaa is Elle
17:10:09 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, ??+1.502.632.aaaa is Elle
17:10:09 <Zakim> sorry, Lisa_Seeman, I do not recognize a party named '??+1.502.632.aaaa'
17:10:24 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, +1.502.632.aaaa is Elle
17:10:24 <Zakim> +Elle; got it
17:10:39 <janina> zakim, close item 2
17:10:39 <Zakim> agendum 2, Any new issues and  introductions, closed
17:10:40 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:10:40 <Zakim> 3. dyscalculia [from Lisa_Seeman]
17:10:43 <janina> zakim, next item
17:10:43 <Zakim> agendum 3. "dyscalculia" taken up [from Lisa_Seeman]
17:10:51 <Liddy> DR: quick update - looking at usability processes and remapping them esp Canadian design processes
17:11:27 <Lisa_Seeman> Zakim, who is noisy?
17:11:37 <Zakim> Lisa_Seeman, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Debra_Ruh (36%), Liddy_Nevile (60%)
17:11:44 <Liddy> DR: we used to look at this from usability perspective so it's a place to start, we think. Feedback welcome
17:12:03 <Liddy> DF: the work's not ready yet - more to be done
17:12:31 <Zakim> +Suzanne_Taylor
17:12:48 <Liddy> DR: Katie has some ideas about this and can talk next week
17:12:57 <neilmilliken> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/cognitive-a11y-tf/wiki/Gap_Analysis/Dyscalculia
17:13:49 <Liddy> NM: put up some things with colleague - collated sparce info re dyscalculia - not a lot out there
17:14:15 <Liddy> NM: cognitive functions and descriptions and problems
17:14:53 <Liddy> NM: feedback often that people like the Web and say they don't have problems but when doing something they demonstrate they do - but not with text etc
17:15:50 <Liddy> NM: we put some use cases - booking a train ticket is important because pften such people don't drive
17:16:53 <Liddy> NM: time etc can cause problems, as can multiple bookings, using time or money, ...
17:17:27 <Liddy> NM: person explained she used 'purples' - big notes o there will be change rather than working out whan to pay...
17:18:27 <Liddy> NM: putting in credit card numbers etc can be tricky, passwords, etc
17:19:07 <Liddy> NM: putting govt services online will mean increasing difficulties
17:20:39 <Liddy> NM: online banking problems - login, random digits, choosing how much to transfer, extrra 0's, etc
17:21:57 <Liddy> NM: setting up account, browsing OK but selecting amount (quantity) is hard
17:22:43 <Liddy> NM: helping people by setting limits etc might be good
17:22:58 <Liddy> NM: maybe quidelines etc for helpers
17:23:41 <Liddy> q+
17:25:05 <Lisa_Seeman> ack lid
17:25:30 <Liddy> NM: assistive techs are not plentiful -
17:26:09 <Liddy> NM: people seem to think of the Web as an escape so they don't identify with their problem until they need to do something
17:26:25 <Liddy> LS: this will get worse as online increases
17:27:13 <Zakim> -Debra_Ruh
17:27:26 <Liddy> LS: I'd like a use case for a Web of things interface - eg TV with arrows up and down
17:28:22 <Liddy> NM: controls are often analog eg for temp have blue and red for hot and cold to avoid numbers
17:28:35 <Liddy> LS: good if we find things we can solve
17:29:39 <Liddy> NM: supermarket problems should be solvable eg with pictograms, small/medium/large
17:29:55 <Lisa_Seeman> Q?
17:30:25 <Liddy> LS: brainstorming solutions is good
17:30:44 <neilmilliken> lost audio
17:31:03 <Liddy> q+
17:31:22 <Liddy> LS: finding way to solve problems is good
17:31:36 <st_afk> q+
17:31:44 <Zakim> -NeilMilliken
17:32:16 <Liddy> LS: very good work, Neil, thank you
17:32:50 <suzanne> ack suzanne
17:32:51 <Liddy> LS: are there examples of unnecessary things causing a barrier?
17:32:57 <Zakim> +NeilMilliken
17:33:00 <Lisa_Seeman> Q?
17:33:00 <suzanne> ack st_afk
17:33:32 <Lisa_Seeman> ack liddy
17:34:34 <Liddy> Suzanne: when looking for solutions, let's find ones that are useful to everyone eg comparison of price
17:34:54 <neilmilliken> I am sure that it could be beneficial for many
17:35:04 <Liddy> Suzanne: that might help getting ideas adopted
17:35:51 <Liddy> LS: (unchaired) first we need to find solutions and not worry if we can't make them for everyone
17:36:26 <neilmilliken> q+
17:36:45 <Lisa_Seeman> Q?
17:36:50 <Liddy> Suzanne: people with disabilities are more often just having something more than others - not uniquely
17:37:25 <Liddy> ??: in solving some problems we often do help extra people
17:38:44 <Liddy> NM?: one person has husband who does not like her shopping online because she buys too much unknowingly - some problems are common
17:38:53 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
17:39:39 <Liddy> JR: I have a person with expertise and will ask for feedback
17:39:43 <neilmilliken> Thanks John
17:39:48 <Lisa_Seeman> Q?
17:39:54 <neilmilliken> q-
17:39:55 <Lisa_Seeman> ack neil
17:40:55 <Liddy> OK
17:41:05 <Liddy> I'll try
17:41:19 <Lisa_Seeman> Liddy: access for all
17:41:30 <janina> topic: Access for All Review
17:41:37 <janina> scribe: lisa
17:41:40 <Lisa_Seeman> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2014Mar/0002.html
17:42:09 <Lisa_Seeman> Liddy: access for all metadate on prefrences
17:42:16 <Lisa_Seeman> descriptions of preffrence
17:42:27 <Lisa_Seeman> descriptions of resources
17:42:47 <MichaelC> zakim, unmute rich
17:42:47 <Zakim> Rich_Schwerdtfeger should no longer be muted
17:43:00 <Liddy> I'll scribe again'
17:43:02 <Lisa_Seeman> eg - tempritures provide slide interface
17:43:08 <janina> scribe: liddy
17:43:18 <Zakim> -Karl_Groves
17:43:31 <Liddy> LS: opening floor re what we need in a tech review
17:43:49 <Liddy> LS: do we want examples of how the tech helps etc?
17:44:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:44:23 <MichaelC> zakim, Ipcaller is Karl_Groves
17:44:23 <Zakim> +Karl_Groves; got it
17:44:56 <Liddy> I can add to my tech review - just couldn't get on wiki ...
17:45:07 <Liddy> Suzanne: yes, the more detail we have the better
17:45:15 <neilmilliken> agree
17:45:47 <Lisa_Seeman> do we want more details - worked example of 1, were it can help, and 2. gaps- what may need to be added / augmented
17:46:04 <Liddy> Suzanne: what about order - what should be review first? tech, problems?
17:46:27 <Liddy> LS: good question, perhaps cyclic and to move adhead we have to work with what we have
17:46:56 <Liddy> LS: if people can contribute we should make it possible
17:47:46 <Liddy> Suzanne: eg for ATAG I can do it now but then will want to review what I have done
17:48:18 <Liddy> LS: in tech review - how it can help, how it can be augmented etc? do we want that?
17:48:22 <Liddy> yes
17:48:33 <Liddy> LS: silence is yes here
17:48:34 <suzanne> s/eg for ATAG/eg for APIP
17:49:49 <Lisa_Seeman> RESOLVED: tech reviews to include  details - worked example of 1, were it can help, and 2. gaps- what may need to be added / augmented - but there is space for "to be added"
17:50:11 <neilmilliken> rich what are the issues?
17:50:38 <Liddy> LS: I can review WCAG? or someone else?
17:51:01 <Lisa_Seeman> Q?
17:51:25 <Lisa_Seeman> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2014Feb/0041.html
17:51:33 <Liddy> LS: starting but maybe not enough time...
17:52:06 <Liddy> LS: work done before Task Force set up so preliminary
17:53:27 <Liddy> LS: I identified things online about how useful tech is from perspective of cog disabilities and then looked for global issues
17:53:56 <Liddy> LS: WCAG is gold standard and the more we can work in with existing checkpoints the better for adoption
17:54:18 <Liddy> LS: this is a WCAG Task Force so a good approach
17:55:21 <Liddy> LS: important techniques for cog are likelt to be AAA or just recs and this is because they may not be testable but this means we can't say 'this is really important for ... people'
17:56:20 <Liddy> LS: 'nice to have' might be advisory but essential for some
17:56:34 <Liddy> LS: how can the necesity be indicated?
17:58:01 <Liddy> LS: we might want to discuss this with WCAG - it is my 'big' issue
17:59:18 <Liddy> LS: comments re text alternatives - might be better if short and understandable and not jargon
17:59:39 <Liddy> LS: eg 'homepage' is Web jargon
18:00:14 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
18:00:34 <Liddy> LS: Neilson report on aging shows many don't understand even 'homepage'
18:00:52 <Lisa_Seeman> Q?
18:01:23 <Liddy> Janina: times getting funny for international calls . US going to daylight time...pls check times
18:02:22 <Zakim> -janina
18:02:30 <Liddy> LS: time's up - any comments?
18:02:56 <Zakim> -JohnRochford
18:03:22 <Liddy> LS: closing but text alt is an issue ..
18:03:35 <Liddy> q+
18:03:40 <neilmilliken> I dont think it's alt text per say liddy
18:04:53 <Lisa_Seeman> Q?
18:04:53 <neilmilliken> its the different weight of importance placed upon recommendations dependent on difficulty
18:04:59 <Lisa_Seeman> ack lidd
18:05:04 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, make logs public
18:05:06 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
18:05:19 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:05:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/03/03-coga-minutes.html Lisa_Seeman
18:06:08 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, please part
18:06:08 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Lisa_Seeman, Debra_Ruh, JohnRochford, NeilMilliken, janina, MichelC, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Karl_Groves, Liddy_Nevile,
18:06:08 <Zakim> Zakim has left #coga
18:06:08 <neilmilliken> speak next week
18:06:11 <Zakim> ... Elle, Suzanne_Taylor, Tim_Boland
18:06:14 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, please part
18:06:14 <RRSAgent> I see no action items