12:58:59 RRSAgent has joined #dwbp 12:58:59 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/28-dwbp-irc 12:59:09 Bernadette_Loscio has joined #dwbp 12:59:24 zakim, code? 12:59:24 sorry, PhilA, I don't know what conference this is 12:59:31 CarlosIglesias has joined #dwbp 12:59:31 zakim, this is DWBP 12:59:32 ok, PhilA; that matches DATA_DWBP()8:00AM 12:59:35 zakim, code? 12:59:35 the conference code is 3927 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), PhilA 12:59:47 +[IPcaller] 12:59:50 +Steve 12:59:51 zakim, ipcaller is me 12:59:51 +PhilA; got it 13:00:22 zakim, dial ivan-voip 13:00:22 ok, ivan; the call is being made 13:00:23 +Ivan 13:00:29 cgueret has joined #dwbp 13:00:41 +[IPcaller] 13:00:45 zakim, this is dwbp 13:00:45 adler1, this was already DATA_DWBP()8:00AM 13:00:46 ok, adler1; that matches DATA_DWBP()8:00AM 13:01:07 +ericstephan 13:01:12 +[IPcaller.a] 13:01:33 zakim, ipcaller.a is me 13:01:33 +dschwabe; got it 13:01:36 +??P6 13:01:38 deirdrelee has joined #DWBP 13:01:42 zakim, ??P6 is me 13:01:42 +cgueret; got it 13:01:43 EricStephan has joined #dwbp 13:01:45 zakim, who is here? 13:01:45 On the phone I see +55213527aaaa, PhilA, Steve, Ivan, [IPcaller], ericstephan, dschwabe, cgueret 13:01:47 zakim, mute me 13:01:48 On IRC I see EricStephan, deirdrelee, cgueret, CarlosIglesias, Bernadette_Loscio, RRSAgent, dschwabe, Zakim, adler1, newton, PhilA, Laufer, ivan, sandro, trackbot 13:01:48 cgueret should now be muted 13:01:53 yaso has joined #dwbp 13:01:53 +yaso 13:02:04 Zakim, [IPcaller] is me 13:02:05 +deirdrelee; got it 13:02:06 antoine has joined #dwbp 13:02:28 nathalia has joined #dwbp 13:02:39 Caroline has joined #DWBP 13:02:40 +[IPcaller] 13:02:48 zakim, IPcaller is me 13:02:48 +antoine; got it 13:02:54 Makx has joined #dwbp 13:03:30 Zakim, yaso has Nathalia 13:03:30 +Nathalia; got it 13:03:31 +HadleyBeeman 13:03:35 HadleyBeeman has joined #dwbp 13:03:39 zakim, who is here? 13:03:39 On the phone I see +55213527aaaa, PhilA, Steve, Ivan, deirdrelee, ericstephan, dschwabe, cgueret (muted), yaso, antoine, HadleyBeeman 13:03:41 yaso has Nathalia 13:03:41 On IRC I see HadleyBeeman, Makx, Caroline, nathalia, antoine, yaso, EricStephan, deirdrelee, cgueret, CarlosIglesias, Bernadette_Loscio, RRSAgent, dschwabe, Zakim, adler1, newton, 13:03:41 ... PhilA, Laufer, ivan, sandro, trackbot 13:03:41 zakim, yaso has Vagner 13:03:42 +Vagner; got it 13:03:52 Zakim, yaso has Caroline 13:03:52 +Caroline; got it 13:04:02 Vagner_Br has joined #dwbp 13:04:17 Zakim, yaso has Vagner_Br 13:04:18 +Vagner_Br; got it 13:04:28 zakim, aaaa is Laufer 13:04:29 Its almost March :-) 13:04:29 +Laufer; got it 13:05:23 chair: Steve 13:05:27 scribe: yaso 13:05:40 +[IPcaller] 13:05:51 Laufer is introducing itself 13:06:01 Laufer: I work at the ??? group 13:06:18 Topic: New Member Intros 13:06:18 +yaso.a 13:06:23 Laufer: I'm interested in semantic Web, I work with Danil Scwabe 13:06:30 MBUI Model Based User Interfaces 13:06:45 + +212.67.87.aabb 13:06:46 Laufer: I work modelling interfaces and I research semantic Web 13:06:53 zakim, [IPcaller] is Bernadette_Loscio 13:06:53 +Bernadette_Loscio; got it 13:06:55 s/Danil Scwabe/Daniel Schwabe/ 13:07:35 +??P13 13:07:47 zakim ??P13 is really me 13:07:48 Vagner: I am Vagner Diniz, the director of W3C Brazil, and I think it's a mistake, we're waiting for Wagner Meira 13:08:20 zakim, ??P13 is me 13:08:20 +CarlosIglesias; got it 13:08:35 zakim, who is here? 13:08:35 On the phone I see Laufer, PhilA, Steve, Ivan, deirdrelee, ericstephan, dschwabe, cgueret (muted), yaso, antoine, HadleyBeeman, Bernadette_Loscio, yaso.a, +212.67.87.aabb, 13:08:39 https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20140227 13:08:39 ... CarlosIglesias 13:08:39 yaso has Vagner_Br 13:08:39 On IRC I see Vagner_Br, HadleyBeeman, Makx, Caroline, nathalia, antoine, yaso, EricStephan, deirdrelee, cgueret, CarlosIglesias, Bernadette_Loscio, RRSAgent, dschwabe, Zakim, 13:08:39 ... adler1, newton, PhilA, Laufer, ivan, sandro, trackbot 13:09:03 -yaso.a 13:09:18 zakim, aabb is Makx 13:09:18 +Makx; got it 13:09:23 https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2014-02-27 gives me internal error! 13:09:31 PROPOSED: aprove last week minutes 13:09:34 Its the wrong date 13:09:35 gatemezi has joined #dwbp 13:09:44 http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2014-02-21 13:10:06 http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2014-02-21 13:10:06 +yaso.a 13:10:11 PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2014-02-21 13:10:11 q+ on announcing minutes 13:10:19 +1 13:10:20 +1 13:10:20 +1 13:10:22 +1 13:10:26 +1 13:10:27 +1 13:10:27 +1 13:10:31 +1 13:10:38 +1 13:10:42 zakim, mute me 13:10:42 Ivan should now be muted 13:10:43 +1 13:10:50 +1 13:11:20 RESOLVED: last week's minutes 13:11:47 zakim, mute me 13:11:47 Bernadette_Loscio should now be muted 13:12:13 Steve: who's planning to join us at London? 13:12:15 I'll be in London for the f2f :) 13:12:19 me too 13:12:21 +1 13:12:24 +1 13:12:24 I could attend remotely 13:12:26 tickets booked :-) 13:12:27 Laufer: I'm going to the F2F meeting 13:12:35 +1 13:12:37 Makx: Can we attend remotely 13:12:47 There will definitely be an IRC channel! 13:12:56 +1 13:13:06 Steve: we can open a line for that 13:13:15 +[IPcaller] 13:13:25 Zakim, who's making noise? 13:13:36 yaso, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: PhilA (13%), Steve (13%), CarlosIglesias (8%), [IPcaller] (57%) 13:13:40 Zakim who's talking? 13:13:43 I think I can attend remotely too 13:13:46 +q 13:14:06 -yaso.a 13:14:32 I suggest just to open a wiki page 13:14:37 for counting people 13:14:44 -q 13:14:58 Phil, Yaso went out 13:15:55 Steve: the agenda should be a discussion document 13:16:02 ... can we start to discuss it? 13:16:12 ... about the venue of the face to face meeting 13:16:16 URL for f2f meeting https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/London_2014#attendees 13:16:23 newton has joined #DWBP 13:16:31 ... we had events on Linked Data and it is the first one on open data 13:16:39 ... my team (at IBM) is very excited 13:16:49 ... we could engage some practioners 13:17:14 ... IBM hosting the event could provide some speakers and it could cover coffee and lunch 13:17:26 ... the venue is a beautiful space and very well located 13:17:31 ... it is very easy to get there 13:17:36 I am jealous :-) sounds great 13:18:07 ... Phil and Hadley arre looking for a speaker to introduce?? 13:18:18 ... do we want to go through the use cases? 13:18:21 q? 13:18:28 s/arre/are 13:18:42 ... we could have the speakers in the beggining of the day as a keynote and at the end of the day 13:18:59 q+ to ask who the OSM person is? 13:19:29 ... anybody has ideas about this agenda? 13:19:47 yaso_ has joined #dwbp 13:19:50 q? 13:19:52 newton_ has joined #DWBP 13:19:52 +q 13:19:54 Zakim, who is on the queue? 13:19:54 I see antoine, PhilA, Vagner_Br on the speaker queue 13:19:56 I'm back! Tks Caroline 13:20:02 ack antoine 13:20:02 antoine, you wanted to comment on announcing minutes 13:20:04 Vinh has joined #dwbp 13:20:15 q- later 13:20:50 Antoine: One opening keynote and one closing keynote it's a good idea 13:21:12 +1 13:21:14 +1 13:21:15 +1 regarding what Antoine said 13:21:19 Steve: does anybody have any concerns about 2 keynotes? 13:21:20 +1 13:21:23 +1 13:21:33 ack Vagner_Br 13:21:34 q- later 13:21:34 ack Vagner 13:21:40 +1 13:22:16 Vagner: I'm ok with having 2 keynotes but my first concern is: Steve said it's gonna be the 1st meeting on Open Data 13:22:30 I raise a question: it's about Open Data or Data on the Web 13:23:01 Vagner: We have to be sure about what we want from this F2f I think it's not very clear about that, at least for me 13:23:17 Stece: those are good points 13:23:23 s/stece/steve 13:23:33 +q 13:23:39 -1 to synonym, +1 to larger category 13:23:40 q- later 13:23:41 Steve: Does everybody thinks tha DW and OD are synonyms? 13:23:43 q+ 13:23:50 Charter says: How can open data be interoperable not just with other open data but with data made available at marginal cost, under less permissive license terms, or with enterprise data? 13:23:52 q- later 13:23:57 I can suggest PhilA to have a small keynote during the F2F meeting 13:24:15 Phil: Data on the Web includes open data 13:24:53 Phil: it includes data that is in some another technology - Open Data it's not the focus of this group 13:24:56 q- later 13:25:05 Steve: Vagner is that a line of your expectations? 13:25:33 PhilA++ 13:25:38 Vagner: yes, today I consider that Open Data is part of Data on The web. We should adress a large spectrum of data on this meeting 13:25:43 q- 13:25:52 please note that Open Data is just Data on the web fulfilling a series of principles https://public.resource.org/8_principles.html 13:25:53 s/it includes data that is in some another technology - Open Data it's not the focus of this group/it includes data that is not open (irrespective of technology) - Open Data it's not the only focus of this group/ 13:26:06 Steve: the metadata could also be applied to other types of data 13:26:08 Does "barrier" include legal restrictions, i.e., data is accessible, but usable only withing restricted contexts, defined by a legal condition? 13:26:19 is not about firewalls and the so 13:26:38 data could be public but without an open license by example 13:26:42 Vagner, does that definition works for you? 13:26:42 I see "Data on the Web" open to protocols others than HTTP 13:26:49 that's also data on the web but not open data 13:27:08 in fact most of what we call open data is not actually open data but data on the web 13:27:45 I would like open protocols like ftp, sftp, rsync etc to be a part of this as well. 13:27:59 +1 to EricStephan 13:28:03 q+ to say that part of the task we have is to tell folks like that those standards are largely already defined 13:28:37 Steve: i'm asking if that it's a convenient way and would that covers yours expectations 13:29:09 q? 13:29:13 Vagner: my concern is much more about different technologies to make the data available 13:29:16 q? 13:29:25 yaso is a great scribe 13:29:50 Vagner: we could consider some BP on other technologies and try to reach them also 13:29:59 ack Eric 13:30:04 Vagner: datavis is another field that we should rely on 13:30:13 ack EricStephan 13:30:34 Eric: I just want to mention that are other protocols when we talk about data on the web 13:31:03 If it's not on HTTP(s) it's not on the Web... which may or may not be a useful observation 13:31:15 q+ 13:31:16 Eric: can you give an example of another protocol? 13:31:19 Eric: there are other techniques that can help scientific community to share information 13:31:19 ack deirdrelee 13:31:32 ack deirdrelee 13:31:36 Zakim, unmute deirdrelee 13:31:36 deirdrelee was not muted, Caroline 13:31:40 ack me 13:31:40 PhilA, you wanted to ask who the OSM person is? and to say that part of the task we have is to tell folks like that those standards are largely already defined 13:32:22 Phil:i could say that The web is Http and other protocols are out of the scope 13:32:27 Yes Hadley, I can bring this out in my use case 13:32:37 phil: but that is not a god aproach 13:32:46 @ericstephan: Thanks. You've made me curious! 13:33:01 Phil: part of our job is to tell people about the web 13:33:05 Phil - I know I know, but a uri can point to these protocols 13:33:42 yes EricStephan 13:33:52 Steve: I think about BP and the metadata vocabs that we're going to create are not connected to protocols discussions 13:34:01 Zakim, who's speaking? 13:34:09 yaso_ this is EricStephan 13:34:11 yaso_, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds 13:34:16 Tks Phil 13:36:00 Eric: basicly I see that the web is the main platform, but thinking in other enviroments to put data maybe it's a good idea 13:36:00 Are there Web-based pointers or standards that could start those high-speed FTP processes? (Should there be?) 13:36:01 q+ to say I would prefer us to focus on HTTP 13:36:31 Steve: I suggest that we can work on some scope 13:36:42 +1 to Steve proposal 13:36:47 Steve: the charteris vague on how do we wanna go 13:36:51 +1 13:37:06 q+ 13:37:15 s/charteris/charter is 13:37:58 q+ on scope 13:38:01 Dschwabe: I also agree that we should organize 13:38:11 zakim, who is speaking? 13:38:22 Caroline, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Laufer (4%), deirdrelee (100%), Makx (14%) 13:39:06 I would suggest that we can identify where data it's been published 13:39:15 dschwabe 13:39:20 Phil I think it's Laufer 13:39:43 Steve: we can have federated sources of data 13:39:46 it's dschwabe 13:39:54 +1 Steve 13:39:55 q+ 13:39:56 Laufer: tks 13:40:10 I've heard it called "data in the wild" 13:40:23 Steve: How far, whats are the limits of our work 13:40:48 dschwabe: we don't have to cover all fields 13:41:29 dschwabe: It's not clear to me how far we can go 13:41:42 q? 13:41:45 I am not on the queue, thank you! 13:41:55 I like your point dschwabe about best practices, we don't have to be explicit about a certain applications needs 13:41:56 ack dschwabe 13:42:03 ack cgueret 13:42:04 cgueret, you wanted to say I would prefer us to focus on HTTP 13:43:00 q+ to talk about Web standards vs internet protocols 13:43:02 I am fine with focusing http, I just want the others ignored. I think we are in agreement 13:43:12 My suggestion is that using URIs to identify items... they don't necessarily have to be http URIs 13:43:13 I don't want the others ignored 13:43:14 -> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Use_Cases Use Cases we have so far 13:43:16 sorry 13:43:17 ack deirdrelee 13:43:19 Tks EricStephan 13:43:26 ack me 13:43:35 zakim, mute me 13:43:35 cgueret should now be muted 13:43:42 deirdrelee: this discussion are very related with the use cases that we collected 13:44:05 +1 to Eric, focus on HTTP and don't forget the others 13:44:19 deirdrelee: there are other aspects as well 13:44:32 I'll bring out the protocols in my use case which I haven't done yet :-) 13:44:54 Steve: the use cases that we collected are a signal of the maturity of the industry 13:44:58 deirdre++ 13:44:59 mute me 13:45:07 q? 13:45:15 ack antoine 13:45:15 antoine, you wanted to comment on scope 13:45:20 +1 13:45:21 ack antoine 13:45:45 Steve: there maybe be thigns in the use cases there are missing, but we should work more cientifically as well 13:45:56 zakim, mute me 13:45:56 dschwabe should now be muted 13:46:00 -Makx 13:46:03 Conceptually I can represent all protocols in a URI 13:46:16 q+ 13:46:26 q- 13:46:39 Steve: i would like to propose an agenda: that everybody works on ideas to our scope based on what they see and what they don't see in the uc 13:46:40 + +3858844aacc 13:46:55 Steve++ 13:47:01 zakim aacc is me 13:47:03 Steve: we should discuss what's on the scope 13:47:25 ack me 13:47:44 Phil: I think we shoul put the UC on the scope 13:48:10 q+ 13:48:12 Phil: the UC in my mind are the scope. The UC are our tool to define the scope 13:48:28 Phil: we can look at the UC that we have and then decide 13:48:30 +1 to Phil 13:48:41 +1 13:48:53 Phil: we have the growing page of UC with Bernadette and DeirdreeLee are working 13:48:56 q+ 13:48:57 +1 to Phil 13:49:31 Hadley: we need to think that we are a W3C Wg 13:49:39 dealing with standards 13:49:49 s/standards/Web standards/ 13:49:56 UCs can provide positive evidence, but absence of a certain aspect in any use case doesn't mean it's not relevant for scope... 13:50:14 thank you! :) 13:50:30 Steve: I agree with Hadley, we are just exploring the issues 13:50:45 Steve: I think the 1st discusion in london should be around this issues 13:51:14 q+ 13:51:19 Steve: i added some commom questions 13:51:40 dscwabe: we can have a wiki page for that? 13:51:43 -> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Use_Cases Use Cases page 13:51:53 Steve: we haven't fill the UC table 13:52:13 Steve: I'm not sure about the difference of the UC table and the UC stories 13:52:21 Great idea! 13:52:26 Yes 13:52:29 yes 13:52:30 Steve: if you have an ideia of scope, please provide some UC 13:52:31 yes 13:52:32 Yes! 13:52:50 s/ideia /idea 13:52:53 -Ivan 13:52:54 Yes I've looked at the questions 13:52:56 q- HadleyBeeman 13:53:00 zakim, dial ivan-voip 13:53:00 ok, ivan; the call is being made 13:53:01 +q 13:53:01 q+ 13:53:01 +Ivan 13:53:06 ack Vagner_Br 13:53:24 Vagner: I like the idea to discuss issues around the UC, specially this questions 13:53:57 Can we add questions to this use case list? 13:54:07 Vagner_Br: but usually this F2F are an opportunnity to go further 13:54:13 yes Eric! 13:54:26 Thank you Bernadette 13:54:27 +1 to Vagner's idea 13:54:32 Vagner_Br: we can have to time to work more on the deliverables that we have to work 13:54:48 -1 13:54:52 Do we already know all the editors here ? 13:55:18 Vagner_Br: my expectation is to know better the editor's work and this WG work 13:55:29 +1 to Vagner 13:55:38 +1 to Vagner 13:55:54 Zakim, who is speaking 13:55:54 I don't understand 'who is speaking', Caroline 13:56:01 Zakim, who is talking 13:56:01 I don't understand 'who is talking', Caroline 13:56:13 Zakim, who's talking 13:56:13 I don't understand 'who's talking', Caroline 13:56:19 zakim, who is making noise? 13:56:29 PhilA, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Laufer (4%), Steve (75%), deirdrelee (43%) 13:56:35 ack me 13:56:47 Phil: I'm gonna contribute to the UC 13:56:58 -gatemezi 13:57:21 Phil: if people don't know about web standards we need to tell them 13:58:03 ...my big worry is that if we spend our time and effort thinking about what for some people are small steps, people who already know that will walk away 13:58:10 +1 to that, PhilA 13:58:14 q? 13:58:16 we need to have different levels... our public will be very heterogeneous 13:58:27 ack deidrelee 13:58:38 +1 PhilA 13:58:48 Phil: for the F2F, by the end of the meeting, Bernadette and DeirdreeLee can send out our first deliverable 13:58:50 +1 13:59:00 But I'm worried by the timing 13:59:04 ack deirdrelee 13:59:08 I like that phrasing, Steve. 13:59:24 Zakim, unmute deirdrelee 13:59:24 deirdrelee was not muted, Caroline 13:59:27 zakim, who is here? 13:59:27 On the phone I see Laufer, PhilA, Steve, Ivan, deirdrelee, ericstephan, dschwabe (muted), cgueret (muted), yaso, antoine, HadleyBeeman, Bernadette_Loscio (muted), CarlosIglesias, 13:59:31 ... +3858844aacc 13:59:31 yaso has Vagner_Br 13:59:31 On IRC I see Vinh, newton_, yaso_, gatemezi, Vagner_Br, HadleyBeeman, Makx, Caroline, nathalia, antoine, EricStephan, deirdrelee, cgueret, CarlosIglesias, Bernadette_Loscio, 13:59:31 ... RRSAgent, dschwabe, Zakim, adler1, PhilA, Laufer, ivan, sandro, trackbot 13:59:37 zakim, unmute Bernadette_Loscio 13:59:37 Bernadette_Loscio should no longer be muted 13:59:38