IRC log of html-a11y on 2014-02-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:54:50 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:54:50 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/13-html-a11y-irc
15:54:52 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
15:54:52 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:54:54 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 2119
15:54:54 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 54 minutes ago
15:54:55 [trackbot]: Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:54:55 [trackbot]: Date: 13 February 2014
15:55:13 [janina]: agenda?
15:55:18 [janina]: Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
15:55:18 [janina]: Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:55:18 [janina]: agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:55:21 [janina]: agenda+ Longdesc Update [See Below]
15:55:24 [janina]: agenda+ Canvas 2D Status & Next Steps
15:55:26 [janina]: agenda+ Alt Guidance & Next Steps [See Below]
15:55:29 [janina]: agenda+ Bug Triage: Review of Resolved Bugs tracked by TF [see below]
15:55:31 [janina]: agenda+ Other Business
15:55:34 [janina]: agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:55:37 [janina]: agenda+ be done
15:55:42 [Zakim]: WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started
15:55:49 [Zakim]: +??P5
15:55:54 [janina]: zakim, ??P5 is me
15:55:54 [Zakim]: +janina; got it
15:56:02 [janina]: zakim, take up item 1
15:56:02 [Zakim]: agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
15:58:17 [Zakim]: +Mark_Sadecki
16:00:22 [chaals]: chaals has joined #html-a11y
16:01:42 [Zakim]: +Cynthia_Shelly
16:01:51 [plh]: plh has joined #html-a11y
16:01:55 [Zakim]: +Plh
16:01:56 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
16:02:04 [chaals]: zakim, [ip is me
16:02:04 [Zakim]: +chaals; got it
16:02:15 [Zakim]: +[IPcaller]
16:02:36 [Judy]: Judy has joined #html-a11y
16:03:04 [Zakim]: +Judy
16:03:22 [MarkS]: scribe: MarkS
16:03:36 [janina]: zakim, who's on the phone?
16:03:36 [Zakim]: On the phone I see janina, Mark_Sadecki, Cynthia_Shelly, chaals, Plh, [IPcaller], Judy
16:03:53 [Zakim]: +David_MacDonald
16:03:56 [chaals]: zakim, [ip is BillyG
16:03:56 [Zakim]: +BillyG; got it
16:04:15 [MarkS]: agenda?
16:04:22 [Billy_Gregory]: Billy_Gregory has joined #html-a11y
16:04:26 [MarkS]: zakim, close item 1
16:04:27 [Zakim]: agendum 1, Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List, closed
16:04:28 [Zakim]: I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:04:28 [Zakim]: 2. Longdesc Update [from See Below via janina]
16:04:31 [MarkS]: zakim, take up next item
16:04:31 [Zakim]: agendum 2. "Longdesc Update" taken up [from See Below]
16:04:54 [chaals]: MS: Chaals is slcking…
16:05:04 [chaals]: s/slc/slac/
16:05:16 [chaals]: … but we're getting on with it and will continue to update people.
16:05:21 [MarkS]: MS: Chaals and I continue to work on items
16:05:25 [MarkS]: zakim, take up next item
16:05:25 [Zakim]: agendum 2 was just opened, MarkS
16:05:33 [MarkS]: zakim, close item 2
16:05:33 [Zakim]: agendum 2, Longdesc Update, closed
16:05:34 [Zakim]: I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:05:34 [Zakim]: 3. Canvas 2D Status & Next Steps [from janina]
16:05:37 [MarkS]: zakim, take up next item
16:05:37 [Zakim]: agendum 3. "Canvas 2D Status & Next Steps" taken up [from janina]
16:06:04 [chaals]: MS: We were waiting to hear back from Mozilla about trying out hit regions...
16:06:22 [chaals]: … yesterday they said that they think this approach is actually looking good.
16:06:51 [Judy]: q+
16:06:55 [chaals]: … they have a prototype and expect to show that next week. They do not intend to drop drawFocusAsNeeded. That is good news all around...
16:07:19 [plh]: s/As/If/
16:07:23 [chaals]: … Unsure about status of Chrome.
16:07:43 [Zakim]: +Adrian_Roselli
16:07:53 [janina]: q?
16:07:55 [aardrian]: aardrian has joined #html-a11y
16:07:57 [janina]: ack j
16:08:14 [aardrian]: Zakim, who is here?
16:08:14 [Zakim]: On the phone I see janina, Mark_Sadecki, Cynthia_Shelly, chaals, Plh, BillyG, Judy, David_MacDonald, Adrian_Roselli
16:08:16 [Zakim]: On IRC I see aardrian, Billy_Gregory, Judy, plh, chaals, Zakim, RRSAgent, MarkS, hober, cabanier_, janina, trackbot
16:08:25 [David_]: David_ has joined #html-a11y
16:08:46 [chaals]: JB: Good to hear. Understand that hit test depends on several things, including perhaps path which is not going to get into the current spec. Would implementation get this into level 1?
16:09:15 [chaals]: MS: Think the spec will require work on hit regions and path, but don't think this is *months*.
16:09:27 [chaals]: … sowe would have to go through some administrative hoops to get this into L1
16:09:41 [chaals]: JB: With implementations, this is a pretty good reason to put it back in…
16:09:56 [janina]: q?
16:10:02 [chaals]: MS: Asked them to summarise their position in public, haven't seen that yet.
16:10:32 [MarkS]: zakim, take up next item
16:10:32 [Zakim]: agendum 4. "Alt Guidance & Next Steps" taken up [from See Below]
16:10:59 [MarkS]: JS: interested in finding out what the timeframe will be for Hit Regions
16:11:23 [janina]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2014Feb/0026.html
16:11:36 [MarkS]: JS: SteveF has shared the list of bugs that HTML WG had requested regarding ALT work/changes
16:12:02 [MarkS]: ...we have been talking about syncing 5.1 and 5.0 specs
16:12:21 [MarkS]: ...Paul had some ideas on how to move forward process wise, but he is not here.
16:12:41 [MarkS]: zakim, take up next item
16:12:41 [Zakim]: agendum 5. "Bug Triage: Review of Resolved Bugs tracked by TF" taken up [from see below]
16:13:05 [MarkS]: -> http://www.w3.org/2014/02/12-a11y-bugs-minutes.html Minutes from Bug Triage
16:13:46 [MarkS]: MS: Bringing one bug to the canvas sub team
16:13:46 [MarkS]: MS: Bringing one bug to the canvas sub team
16:13:58 [MarkS]: ..Reopened a bug against 5.1
16:14:07 [MarkS]: ...Closed two
16:14:19 [MarkS]: -> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13549 13549 4.10.18 associating form elements with forms that do not contain them can cause navigation problems for AT and keyboard users
16:15:20 [MarkS]: CS: This could be addressed with a WCAG failure. but should also bring it against 5.1
16:15:47 [MarkS]: JS: Feel like this should cause a validation failure
16:16:05 [MarkS]: ...should be a 5.1 issue
16:16:14 [MarkS]: CS: If there isn't a WCAG failure, there should be
16:16:45 [MarkS]: DM: Please send a note to WCAG
16:17:23 [MarkS]: -> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12964 12964 <video>: Declarative linking of full-text transcripts to video and audio elements
16:18:40 [MarkS]: JS: talked about this in Media sub team. syncing functionality could be added if programatically linked
16:18:48 [MarkS]: ...there is mainstream interest in this
16:19:35 [MarkS]: ...more than just a longdesc for video
16:19:42 [MarkS]: ...think we should defer this to 5.1
16:21:17 [MarkS]: ...cognitive accessibility could be improved with this feature
16:22:22 [MarkS]: AR: wondering how this is different than closed captioning.
16:22:39 [MarkS]: ...don't want to see a situation where we duplicate a feature that already exists.
16:23:06 [MarkS]: JS: another use case is for people who want to read through the transcript.
16:24:02 [MarkS]: DM: WCAG recommends authors put text transcripts on the page of the video.
16:24:38 [MarkS]: -> http://tinyurl.com/p5qkc2z LC1 HTML spec Resolved NEEDSINFO, INVALID, WONTFIX
16:25:32 [MarkS]: Topic: 13273
16:25:34 [MarkS]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13273
16:25:46 [MarkS]: Clarify text in media element user interface section
16:29:31 [MarkS]: Agreement that this would be better as a MUST requirement.
16:29:49 [MarkS]: OK with moving it to 5.1
16:29:57 [MarkS]: We should test current support
16:31:19 [MarkS]: DM: comes back to that old conversation about disabling javascript.
16:33:01 [MarkS]: JS: potential for use case for disabling js in order to get around inaccessible custom controls.
16:33:20 [MarkS]: ...anyone interested in keeping this in 5.0?
16:33:53 [MarkS]: CMN: I am in favor of that, but think we would have a hard time getting it into 5.0
16:34:35 [MarkS]: DM: it is a failure in WCAG
16:35:06 [MarkS]: CS: is there a failure technique for this?
16:35:19 [MarkS]: DM: yes, if you can't reach everything with the keyboard
16:37:18 [MarkS]: CMN: I'm not sure we should move it to 5.1. Just because we can't do it in 5.0.
16:37:37 [MarkS]: s/CMN: I'm not sure we should move it to 5.1. Just because we can't do it in 5.0. //
16:38:17 [MarkS]: CMN: I think we should clarify that we are not moving this to 5.1 just because we couldn't get it into the 5.0 timeline. It's something we should have done in 5.0
16:38:49 [MarkS]: Topic: 13437
16:38:50 [MarkS]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13437
16:38:58 [MarkS]: Editorial changes to The Video element (5 of 5)
16:42:00 [MarkS]: CMN: the argument they use to reject this bug seems like nonsense to me.
16:42:13 [MarkS]: CS: Seems like a non-issue to me
16:42:20 [MarkS]: agreement from the group
16:44:53 [MarkS]: CMN: If we want to keep this requirement, then its not that difficult to explain how it could be done. We would reopen this in 5.0.
16:45:26 [MarkS]: ...we would like to see implementers pick up the a11y features and get it right. They could be put at risk if they don't
16:46:26 [MarkS]: ...I think we want this always available (not necessarily visible)
16:47:37 [MarkS]: ...I suggest we open this and get it right. We want to make sure the control is available, but not necessarily visible. Right now its not clear that the UA is required to make it available.
16:48:07 [MarkS]: ...reopen and discuss it quickly.
16:48:25 [MarkS]: PLH: If you do that you should add more info.
16:48:56 [MarkS]: CMN: reopen it, assign it to me and put in some clarifying info.
16:49:33 [MarkS]: Topic: 13275
16:49:43 [MarkS]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13275
16:49:53 [MarkS]: Display of media control UI when scripting is disabled
16:53:12 [MarkS]: CMN: This looks the same as the previous bug. Mark it as a duplicate and state the intention is the same. would like to fix it in 5.1
16:53:14 [chaals]: rrsagent, draft minutes
16:53:14 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/13-html-a11y-minutes.html chaals
16:53:30 [chaals]: rrsagent, make minutes public
16:53:30 [RRSAgent]: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', chaals. Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:53:37 [chaals]: rrsagent, make log public
16:53:39 [MarkS]: Topic: 13461
16:53:50 [MarkS]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13461
16:53:56 [MarkS]: Commentary on Issue #30 (longdesc) from the Association of American Publishers
16:54:56 [MarkS]: JB: progress was made on this in the TF. They are aware of that. Since we are nearly complete with our extension spec, we can thank them for offering comment, point to the longdesc extension, etc.
16:55:49 [MarkS]: Topic: 13651
16:55:56 [Billy_Gregory_]: Billy_Gregory_ has joined #html-a11y
16:55:58 [MarkS]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13651
16:56:04 [MarkS]: Missing alt should not be considered conforming in the presence of figcaptions over 50 words in length.
16:56:24 [MarkS]: JB: will take time to write up the research I did on this issue and determine a threshold
16:56:54 [MarkS]: ...propose it stays assigned to mark and gets reopened in 5.1
16:57:06 [MarkS]: JS: I think the pushback on this was around the specific number.
16:57:21 [MarkS]: JB: right we need to justify the threshold
16:58:12 [MarkS]: ...need examples to backup the threshold
16:59:20 [MarkS]: agenda?
16:59:27 [MarkS]: zakim, close item 5
16:59:27 [Zakim]: agendum 5, Bug Triage: Review of Resolved Bugs tracked by TF, closed
16:59:28 [Zakim]: I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:59:28 [Zakim]: 6. Other Business [from janina]
16:59:44 [Zakim]: -Cynthia_Shelly
16:59:45 [Zakim]: -BillyG
16:59:45 [Zakim]: -janina
16:59:46 [Zakim]: -Mark_Sadecki
16:59:46 [Zakim]: -Adrian_Roselli
16:59:48 [Zakim]: -David_MacDonald
16:59:48 [Zakim]: -chaals
16:59:49 [MarkS]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:59:49 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/13-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS
16:59:49 [Zakim]: -Judy
16:59:52 [aardrian]: aardrian has left #html-a11y
16:59:54 [Zakim]: WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
16:59:55 [Zakim]: Attendees were janina, Mark_Sadecki, Cynthia_Shelly, Plh, [IPcaller], chaals, Judy, David_MacDonald, BillyG, Adrian_Roselli
16:59:58 [MarkS]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:59:58 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/13-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS