IRC log of pointerevents on 2014-02-11
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 16:00:28 [RRSAgent]
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc
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- RRSAgent, make log Public
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- +Doug_Schepers
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- +Matt_Brubeck
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- +[IPcaller]
- 16:02:07 [smaug]
- Zakim, [IPcaller] is Olli_Pettay
- 16:02:07 [Zakim]
- +Olli_Pettay; got it
- 16:02:22 [smaug]
- Zakim, nick smaug is Olli_Pettay
- 16:02:22 [Zakim]
- ok, smaug, I now associate you with Olli_Pettay
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- +[Microsoft]
- 16:02:51 [jrossi]
- Zakim, Microsoft is jrossi
- 16:02:51 [Zakim]
- +jrossi; got it
- 16:03:07 [ArtB]
- Present: Art_Barstow, Doug_Schepers, Jacob_Rossi, Matt_Brubeck, Olli_Pettay, Asir_Vedamuthu
- 16:03:13 [ArtB]
- Regrets: Rick_Byers, Cathy_Chan, Scott_González
- 16:03:17 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 16:03:31 [patrick_h_lauke]
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- 16:03:54 [asir]
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- 16:04:22 [patrick_h_lauke]
- belated regrets from me, sorry. something came up just in the last few minutes (must dash off early to pick up little one from childminder now)
- 16:04:34 [ArtB]
- Regrets+ Patrick_Lauke
- 16:04:42 [ArtB]
- Topic: Agree on agenda
- 16:04:45 [patrick_h_lauke]
- i WAS intending to take part, had it not been for this last second change of plan. sorry
- 16:04:47 [ArtB]
- AB: I posted a draft agenda on February 11 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0073.html. We have a few regrets so we may need to factor that in for some discussions. Other than that, are there any change requests?
- 16:05:14 [ArtB]
- Topic: adding an informative note re touch events?
- 16:05:21 [ArtB]
- AB: Patrick started this thread on January 31 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0064.html.
- 16:05:29 [ArtB]
- AB: Rick replied http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0065.html and I did too, suggesting Patrick create a concrete proposal we can discuss. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0066.html
- 16:06:01 [ArtB]
- AB: any comments?
- 16:06:10 [ArtB]
- AB: I'll create an action for Patrick
- 16:06:15 [ArtB]
- ACTION: Patrick create a proposal re informative note re PointerEvent and TouchEvent compatibility.
- 16:06:15 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-69 - Create a proposal re informative note re pointerevent and touchevent compatibility. [on Patrick Lauke - due 2014-02-18].
- 16:06:47 [smaug]
- yup
- 16:07:00 [ArtB]
- Topic: ACTION-68: Proposed text for "contextmenu issue"
- 16:07:06 [ArtB]
- AB: Rick proposed text for Action-68 on January 28; http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0061.html.
- 16:07:15 [ArtB]
- AB: any comments or can we approve Rick's proposal "as is"?
- 16:07:31 [ArtB]
- JR: works for me
- 16:07:36 [ArtB]
- AB: anyone else?
- 16:07:55 [ArtB]
- MB: looks ok
- 16:08:52 [ArtB]
- RESOLUTION: group agrees with the text Rick proposed re Action-68
- 16:08:58 [ArtB]
- ACTION: Jacob update spec to reflect 11-Feb-2014 discussion of Action-68
- 16:08:58 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-70 - Update spec to reflect 11-feb-2014 discussion of action-68 [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-02-18].
- 16:09:09 [ArtB]
- Topic: Exception usage
- 16:09:14 [ArtB]
- AB: Anne raised this issue on February 3; http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0067.html. Anne recommends the PE spec use the JavaScript built-in RangeError rather than DOMException with a new name of "InvalidPointerId".
- 16:09:42 [ArtB]
- AB: so far, no one has replied. There is a consistency argument here but this change would also presumably break implementations so there is also a cost to consider.
- 16:10:10 [dfreedm]
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- 16:10:29 [ArtB]
- JR: I could be out of date on the latest from DOM and Web IDL
- 16:10:48 [ArtB]
- … I don't have any data re an impact of the proposed change
- 16:10:56 [ArtB]
- … Not sure RangeError is correct
- 16:11:14 [ArtB]
- … If an invalid id is used, not really a range error per se
- 16:11:24 [ArtB]
- … more of a state error
- 16:11:37 [ArtB]
- … I need to think about this some more
- 16:11:50 [ArtB]
- OP: agree we need something other Range
- 16:12:06 [ArtB]
- JR: what do you think about what's in the spec now Olli?
- 16:12:17 [ArtB]
- … do you think that should change?
- 16:12:40 [ArtB]
- OP: if the plan is to not add new DOM Exception and to use builit in we shold consider it
- 16:13:00 [ArtB]
- MB: I don't see any other builtin exceptions that are a good match
- 16:13:05 [ArtB]
- … based on looking at ES spec
- 16:13:18 [ArtB]
- … Think we should reply to Anne
- 16:13:39 [ArtB]
- JR: latest info I saw was from Cameron on Jan 28
- 16:13:46 [jrossi]
- https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21740
- 16:13:53 [ArtB]
- … don't want to move to something just because it is "trendy"
- 16:14:06 [ArtB]
- MB: need to understand what changes are coming
- 16:14:20 [ArtB]
- DS: and we need to understand the level of consensus for the proposed change
- 16:14:37 [ArtB]
- ACTION: Matt reply to Anne's "Exception usage" e-mail of Feb 3
- 16:14:38 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-71 - Reply to anne's "exception usage" e-mail of feb 3 [on Matt Brubeck - due 2014-02-18].
- 16:14:51 [ArtB]
- MB: I think we need some more data
- 16:15:12 [mbrubeck]
- ECMA-262 defines Error, EvalError, RangeError, ReferenceError, SyntaxError, TypeError and URIError.
- 16:15:13 [ArtB]
- AB: encourage others to followup too
- 16:15:41 [ArtB]
- AB: that's a short list and I agree, not clear better match
- 16:15:53 [ArtB]
- Topic Feedback on pointer events
- 16:15:58 [ArtB]
- AB: Anne submitted 8 additional comments from him and Boris on February 3 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0069.html.
- 16:16:09 [ArtB]
- AB: there's an implicit Action for everyone to review the comments and reply accordingly. We can discuss some set of the comments now or defer discussion on the list.
- 16:16:59 [ArtB]
- JR: some are easy, along the line of "spec mechanics"
- 16:17:09 [ArtB]
- … #5 appears to just be a typo
- 16:17:23 [ArtB]
- … since there is no default action to be canceled
- 16:17:36 [ArtB]
- … #1, think I just need to add a reference
- 16:17:50 [ArtB]
- MB: #6 is tricky since we don't define default behavior
- 16:18:00 [ArtB]
- … touches on touch-action algorithm
- 16:18:12 [ArtB]
- … we might need to change our language to the proposed form
- 16:18:40 [ArtB]
- JR: my proposal is for me to make changes for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 in a single ED update
- 16:18:56 [ArtB]
- … and I'll send that changeset to the list
- 16:19:22 [ArtB]
- ACTION: Jacob propose changes for 1-5 of Anne's e-mail of Feb 3
- 16:19:22 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-72 - Propose changes for 1-5 of anne's e-mail of feb 3 [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-02-18].
- 16:19:29 [ArtB]
- MB: what about the other items?
- 16:19:33 [ArtB]
- JR: discuss on the list
- 16:19:41 [ArtB]
- MB: I can take an action re #6
- 16:20:06 [ArtB]
- … think #7 is a "ship has sailed" deal
- 16:20:13 [ArtB]
- … Need to think more about #8
- 16:20:36 [ArtB]
- OP: not clear about #7 and the devices not tied to a screen
- 16:20:49 [ArtB]
- … not clear its better than Navigator
- 16:20:57 [ArtB]
- JR: agree; I have a device like that
- 16:21:21 [ArtB]
- MB: not sure we can make a change at this point
- 16:21:39 [ArtB]
- ACTION: Matt reply to #6 of Anne's Feb 3 comments
- 16:21:39 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-73 - Reply to #6 of anne's feb 3 comments [on Matt Brubeck - due 2014-02-18].
- 16:22:16 [ArtB]
- ACTION: olli reply to #7 of Anne's Feb 3 comments
- 16:22:16 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-74 - Reply to #7 of anne's feb 3 comments [on Olli Pettay - due 2014-02-18].
- 16:22:34 [ArtB]
- MB: not sure what about #8
- 16:23:16 [ArtB]
- JR: we don't define overall dispatch model in PE spec
- 16:23:29 [ArtB]
- … we just describe behavior for each event
- 16:23:43 [ArtB]
- … not sure where we would define what is proposed
- 16:24:11 [ArtB]
- ACTION: jacob reply to #8 of Anne's Feb 3 e-mail
- 16:24:11 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-75 - Reply to #8 of anne's feb 3 e-mail [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-02-18].
- 16:24:38 [ArtB]
- AB: it's good to get the feedback
- 16:25:01 [ArtB]
- Topic: Focus/blur?
- 16:25:13 [ArtB]
- AB: Patrick started this thread on February 4 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0071.html
- 16:25:13 [ArtB]
- AB: any comments?
- 16:25:44 [ArtB]
- OP: think the focus/blur handling should continue to be defined in HTML spec
- 16:25:59 [ArtB]
- … not sure PE spec can say anything useful about this
- 16:26:03 [ArtB]
- JR: agree with that
- 16:26:36 [ArtB]
- ACTION: olli reply to Patrick's Focus/blur? e-mail of Feb 4
- 16:26:36 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-76 - Reply to patrick's focus/blur? e-mail of feb 4 [on Olli Pettay - due 2014-02-18].
- 16:26:45 [ArtB]
- Topic: Pointer cancel event dispatching
- 16:26:53 [ArtB]
- AB: this thread was started Nikolay Lebedev on February 4 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pointer-events/2014JanMar/0072.html.
- 16:26:54 [ArtB]
- AB: would someone please followup?
- 16:27:11 [ArtB]
- MB: Nick is part of MS Open Tech and he is implementing PE in Gecko
- 16:27:25 [ArtB]
- AV: I think this is just an e-mail seeking clarification
- 16:27:31 [ArtB]
- JR: yes agree
- 16:27:39 [ArtB]
- … I can reply with "yes, that's OK"
- 16:28:22 [ArtB]
- ACTION: Jacob reply to Nikolay's e-mail of Feb 4 re "Pointer cancel event dispatching"
- 16:28:23 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-77 - Reply to nikolay's e-mail of feb 4 re "pointer cancel event dispatching" [on Jacob Rossi - due 2014-02-18].
- 16:28:46 [ArtB]
- Topic: Testing status
- 16:28:54 [ArtB]
- AB: any new testing status since we discussed testing during our last call http://www.w3.org/2014/01/28-pointerevents-minutes.html#item10?
- 16:29:48 [ArtB]
- AB: I think we are waiting for some colleagues of Jacob
- 16:29:51 [asir]
- who is automated tester?
- 16:30:15 [ArtB]
- JR: I think some internal changes will make this easier and we can expect an update soon
- 16:30:24 [ArtB]
- AB: that would be great
- 16:31:09 [ArtB]
- DS: in case people didn't notice, Opera recently released their Presto tests [to Github]
- 16:31:40 [ArtB]
- … I don't know if they included anything useful for us
- 16:31:55 [smaug]
- asir: that AutomatedTester who just left this channel is from Mozilla, I think
- 16:32:09 [ArtB]
- AB: my recollection is Sangwhan reported they would not backport PE to Presto and would use Blink's impl moving forward
- 16:32:17 [ArtB]
- DS: yes, that might be correct
- 16:32:22 [asir]
- ok
- 16:32:32 [ArtB]
- Topic: CR implementation updates
- 16:32:40 [ArtB]
- AB: any new testing status since we discussed testing during our last call http://www.w3.org/2014/01/28-pointerevents-minutes.html#item11?
- 16:32:57 [ArtB]
- s/testing/implementation/
- 16:33:06 [ArtB]
- MB: we are still reviewing patches
- 16:33:17 [ArtB]
- OP: patches are landing `all the time`
- 16:33:25 [ArtB]
- AV: do you mean patches from Oleg?
- 16:33:36 [ArtB]
- MB: yes, patches from Oleg and Nikolay
- 16:33:53 [ArtB]
- DS: wasn't there some WebKit news?
- 16:33:58 [mbrubeck]
- https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=105463
- 16:34:55 [mbrubeck]
- was resolved WONTFIX
- 16:36:25 [ArtB]
- Topic: AoB
- 16:36:35 [ArtB]
- AB: anything else for today?
- 16:37:04 [ArtB]
- DS: during the 2nd week of April, there is a "mini TPAC" by eBay in San Jose
- 16:37:14 [ArtB]
- … does this group want to try to meet there?
- 16:37:23 [ArtB]
- AB: I'll be there
- 16:37:37 [ArtB]
- DS: HTMLWG and WebAppsWG will be there
- 16:37:48 [ArtB]
- AV: will we have agenda items to discuss?
- 16:37:58 [ArtB]
- JR: we should be done by then
- 16:38:56 [ArtB]
- AB: I don't think we'll have an urgent need to meet then
- 16:39:07 [ArtB]
- DS: ok, I just wanted to let people know
- 16:39:52 [ArtB]
- AB: any other topics for today?
- 16:40:00 [ArtB]
- AB: please address your open Actions
- 16:41:43 [ArtB]
- AB: meeting adjourned
- 16:41:48 [ArtB]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 16:41:48 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html ArtB
- 16:42:06 [ArtB]
- RRSAgent, make log public
- 16:42:27 [ArtB]
- Meeting: Pointer Events Call
- 16:42:32 [ArtB]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 16:42:32 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html ArtB
- 16:42:52 [ArtB]
- Chair: ArtB
- 16:42:56 [ArtB]
- RRSAgent, make minutes
- 16:42:56 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-minutes.html ArtB
- 16:43:18 [Zakim]
- -Olli_Pettay
- 16:43:19 [Zakim]
- -Art_Barstow
- 16:43:21 [Zakim]
- -Doug_Schepers
- 16:43:22 [Zakim]
- -jrossi
- 16:43:46 [Zakim]
- -Matt_Brubeck
- 16:45:32 [jrossi]
- jrossi has left #pointerevents
- 16:47:13 [mbrubeck]
- remember to CC anne on replies, as requested
- 16:58:16 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft]
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- RWC_PEWG()11:00AM has ended
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- Attendees were Art_Barstow, Doug_Schepers, Matt_Brubeck, Olli_Pettay, jrossi, [Microsoft]
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- 19:03:22 [ArtB]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- I see 9 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Patrick create a proposal re informative note re PointerEvent and TouchEvent compatibility. [1]
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-06-15
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Jacob update spec to reflect 11-Feb-2014 discussion of Action-68 [2]
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-08-58
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Matt reply to Anne's "Exception usage" e-mail of Feb 3 [3]
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-14-37
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Jacob propose changes for 1-5 of Anne's e-mail of Feb 3 [4]
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-19-22
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Matt reply to #6 of Anne's Feb 3 comments [5]
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-21-39
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: olli reply to #7 of Anne's Feb 3 comments [6]
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-22-16
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: jacob reply to #8 of Anne's Feb 3 e-mail [7]
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-24-11
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: olli reply to Patrick's Focus/blur? e-mail of Feb 4 [8]
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-26-36
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Jacob reply to Nikolay's e-mail of Feb 4 re "Pointer cancel event dispatching" [9]
- 19:03:22 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/02/11-pointerevents-irc#T16-28-22