12:55:17 RRSAgent has joined #dwbp 12:55:17 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/07-dwbp-irc 12:55:43 PhilA has changed the topic to: DWBP Weekly telecon 7 Feb 2014 12:56:11 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.02.07 12:56:21 Chair: Steve 12:56:47 DATA_DWBP()8:00AM has now started 12:56:48 +Vinh 12:57:07 Regrets+ Bernadette, JohnG, Martin, Erik 12:57:46 +??P1 12:58:10 zakim, ??P1 is me 12:58:10 +Seiji_Isotani; got it 12:58:22 +[IPcaller] 12:58:27 zakim, ipcaller is me 12:58:27 +PhilA; got it 12:58:53 Tcarrasco has joined #dwbp 12:58:59 +??P3 12:59:18 zakim, ??P3 is me 12:59:18 +Tcarrasco; got it 12:59:23 * you´re welcome PhilA, still trying to get used to irc 12:59:30 CarlosIglesias has joined #dwbp 12:59:45 zakim, dial ivan-voip 12:59:45 ok, ivan; the call is being made 12:59:46 +Steve 12:59:46 +Ivan 12:59:53 MakxDekkers has joined #dwbp 12:59:55 +HadleyBeeman 13:00:06 zakim, drop ivan 13:00:06 Ivan is being disconnected 13:00:07 -Ivan 13:00:38 zakim, dial ivan-voip 13:00:38 ok, ivan; the call is being made 13:00:40 +Ivan 13:00:52 zakim, mute me 13:00:52 + +33.4.93.00.aaaa 13:00:52 Ivan should now be muted 13:01:08 +ericstephan 13:01:09 zakim, mute me 13:01:09 Tcarrasco should now be muted 13:01:51 zakim, who is here? 13:01:51 On the phone I see Vinh, Seiji_Isotani, PhilA, Tcarrasco (muted), Steve, Ivan (muted), HadleyBeeman, +33.4.93.00.aaaa, ericstephan 13:01:53 On IRC I see MakxDekkers, CarlosIglesias, Tcarrasco, RRSAgent, Vinh, PhilA, Zakim, HadleyBeeman, Seiji_Isotani, adler1, ErikMannens, ivan, sandro, trackbot 13:02:01 zakim, who is on the call? 13:02:02 On the phone I see Vinh, Seiji_Isotani, PhilA, Tcarrasco (muted), Steve, Ivan (muted), HadleyBeeman, +33.4.93.00.aaaa, ericstephan 13:02:19 + +33.4.93.00.aabb 13:02:20 -Vinh 13:02:31 yaso has joined #dwbp 13:02:52 ericstephan has joined #dwbp 13:02:57 +Makx_Dekkers 13:03:05 -Makx_Dekkers 13:03:07 +??P8 13:03:08 rtroncy, are you dialing in? 13:03:16 +Caroline 13:03:17 I am joining from a new number... 13:03:30 zakim, ??P8 is me 13:03:30 +CarlosIglesias; got it 13:03:43 zakim, caroline is Yaso 13:03:43 +Yaso; got it 13:03:48 +Makx_Dekkers 13:04:38 herrmann has joined #dwbp 13:04:48 -Makx_Dekkers 13:04:54 zakim, mute aabb 13:04:54 +33.4.93.00.aabb should now be muted 13:05:05 zakim, mute aaaa 13:05:05 +33.4.93.00.aaaa should now be muted 13:05:12 zakim, unmute aabb 13:05:12 +33.4.93.00.aabb should no longer be muted 13:05:22 +Makx_Dekkers 13:05:34 - +33.4.93.00.aaaa 13:05:41 -Makx_Dekkers 13:06:00 +Vinh 13:06:02 zakim, mute +33* 13:06:02 sorry, adler1, I do not know which phone connection belongs to +33* 13:06:13 zakim, mute aaaa 13:06:13 sorry, HadleyBeeman, I do not know which phone connection belongs to aaaa 13:06:14 zakim, mute +33* 13:06:15 sorry, adler1, I do not know which phone connection belongs to +33* 13:06:20 zakim, who is on the call? 13:06:21 +Makx_Dekkers 13:06:21 On the phone I see Seiji_Isotani, PhilA, Tcarrasco (muted), Steve, Ivan (muted), HadleyBeeman, ericstephan, +33.4.93.00.aabb, CarlosIglesias, Yaso, Vinh, Makx_Dekkers 13:06:25 zakim, mute aabb 13:06:25 +33.4.93.00.aabb should now be muted 13:06:25 zkaim, mute aabb 13:06:28 - +33.4.93.00.aabb 13:06:44 herrmann_ has joined #dwbp 13:06:48 gatemezi has joined #dwbp 13:07:14 zakim, who is here? 13:07:14 On the phone I see Seiji_Isotani, PhilA, Tcarrasco (muted), Steve, Ivan (muted), HadleyBeeman, ericstephan, CarlosIglesias, Yaso, Vinh, Makx_Dekkers 13:07:16 On IRC I see gatemezi, herrmann_, herrmann, ericstephan, yaso, MakxDekkers, CarlosIglesias, Tcarrasco, RRSAgent, Vinh, PhilA, Zakim, HadleyBeeman, Seiji_Isotani, adler1, 13:07:16 ... ErikMannens, ivan, sandro, trackbot 13:07:30 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2014.02.07 13:08:09 I can help 13:08:25 thanks eric 13:08:31 scribenick: ericstephan 13:08:32 scribe: Eric 13:08:42 scribe: ericstephan 13:08:45 oops did I screw that up Ivan? 13:08:49 thank you 13:09:10 APPROVAL: Meeting minutes 13:09:14 +1 13:09:14 Actually link in agenda is wrong, it should be http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dwbp/2014-01-31 13:09:29 + +33.4.93.00.aacc 13:09:31 PROPOSED RESOLUTION: accept minutes of 31 jan 13:09:59 newton has joined #dwbp 13:10:01 +1 13:10:06 +1 13:10:07 +1 13:10:09 +1 13:10:10 +1 13:10:10 +1 13:10:12 +1 13:10:14 +1 13:10:19 +1 13:10:20 +1 13:10:27 +1 13:10:57 RESOLVED: accept the meetings of 31 jan 13:11:14 TOPIC: Use cases 13:12:03 +q 13:12:11 No one has put use cases on the wiki yet. 13:12:21 Steve: Does anyone know of any use cases? 13:12:29 yes 13:12:33 q? 13:12:40 ack Seiji_Isotani 13:13:06 zakim, newton is with yaso 13:13:06 +newton; got it 13:13:18 Seiji_Isotani: Thought about the use cases, but still don't understand idea behind use cases, with regards to best practices 13:13:26 ack seiji_Isotani 13:13:54 Seiji_Isotani: Its seems still a bit vague 13:14:32 I like yaso's idea of the data lifecyle - could be useful 13:14:43 ????: Putting data on the web, and trace data life cyle on the web 13:14:51 was that yaso speaking? 13:14:56 yes 13:14:58 yes 13:14:59 thank you 13:15:04 zakim, unmute me 13:15:04 Tcarrasco should no longer be muted 13:15:07 s/????/yaso/ 13:15:09 q+ 13:15:15 zakim, drop me 13:15:15 Ivan is being disconnected 13:15:17 -Ivan 13:15:24 zakim, dial ivan-voip 13:15:24 ok, ivan; the call is being made 13:15:25 antoine has joined #dwbp 13:15:25 +Ivan 13:15:36 zakim, mute me 13:15:36 Ivan should now be muted 13:16:01 Steve: Organized webinar with city of Palo Alto to look at challenges, publication, community uses, impacts and challenges that remain 13:16:23 +[IPcaller] 13:16:30 zakim, IPcaller is me 13:16:30 +antoine; got it 13:16:45 Steve: Use of webinars on a regular basis all these issues that Yaso mentioned will quickly clean out other issues. 13:16:45 q+ 13:16:53 ack 13:16:58 ack Tcarrasco 13:17:51 Tcarrasco: Will we be taking into account technical aspects of the problem? 13:18:00 Use case: existing programs; e.g., Apache. 13:18:02 Did I capture that? 13:18:07 thank you 13:19:06 Tcarrasco: URI has a publication in 5 languages and different formats. In Apache it would give me spanish version 13:19:20 http://example.com/1122.es.html 13:19:34 Get the Spanish, HTML variant 13:19:40 VanessaTonini has joined #DWBP 13:19:50 Content negotiation is a standard feature of HTTP. Negotiation can be by file type and/or by language 13:20:07 Steve: Don't know how it fits in use case example.. 13:20:12 JoaoPauloAlmeida has joined #dwbp 13:20:22 http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/content-negotiation.html 13:20:43 PhilA: This is content negociation, underused on the web. But you can do this and it goes to the heart of the linked data world. 13:21:02 zakim, mute me 13:21:02 sorry, gatemezi, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 13:21:03 q+ 13:21:05 URI identifies a "resources" that can have many variants 13:21:16 Probably the need of different types of content addressing different user needs (language, format, etc.) is a good use case 13:21:29 But not the content negotiation mechanism itself 13:21:38 +??P12 13:21:46 Zakim, ??P12 is me 13:21:46 +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it 13:22:06 zakim, who is on the phone? 13:22:06 On the phone I see Seiji_Isotani, PhilA, Tcarrasco, Steve, Ivan (muted), HadleyBeeman, ericstephan, CarlosIglesias, Yaso, Vinh, Makx_Dekkers, +33.4.93.00.aacc, antoine, 13:22:10 ... JoaoPauloAlmeida 13:22:10 Yaso has Yaso, newton 13:22:18 Zakim, +33.4.00.aacc is me 13:22:18 sorry, gatemezi, I do not recognize a party named '+33.4.00.aacc' 13:22:26 Tcarrasco: United nations on Sudan, when one talks to the language, its in many languages and formats 13:22:38 q+ about multilinguality 13:22:47 q_ 13:22:53 To request a list of languages must go into the header fields 13:23:05 Zakim, aacc is me 13:23:05 +gatemezi; got it 13:23:19 ack antoine 13:23:24 Vagner_Br has joined #dwbp 13:23:32 See the examaples - https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Data_on_the_Web_URI_Best_Practices 13:23:45 Yaso: Introduced xx 13:24:26 xx: A bit skeptical about putting all the complexities into the use cases 13:24:50 s/xx/antoine 13:25:14 zakim, drop me 13:25:15 Ivan is being disconnected 13:25:16 -Ivan 13:25:23 zakim, dial ivan-voip 13:25:23 ok, ivan; the call is being made 13:25:25 +Ivan 13:26:00 Tcarrasco: Question of languages and time, previous versions of the page. dimensions of linked data must be in use cases 13:26:13 ErikMannens has joined #dwbp 13:26:41 The key point is dimensions: language, format, previous version, perhaps other in the future 13:26:43 +Yaso.a 13:26:46 Steve: Can we identify multi-lingual as part of each use case? 13:26:52 Zakim, mute me 13:26:52 JoaoPauloAlmeida should now be muted 13:27:39 +1 with what Steve proposed: let's let the cases raise/ack the issue and be ready to investigate more. 13:27:55 s/be ready/we be ready/ 13:28:17 q+ 13:28:21 ack 13:28:33 ack yaso 13:28:37 zakim, mute me 13:28:37 Ivan should now be muted 13:28:39 ack about 13:28:46 ack multilinguality 13:29:02 Do not address just the particular case of languages 13:29:10 ok 13:30:02 Nitai has joined #dwbp 13:30:18 q+ 13:30:26 q+ 13:30:36 ack ericstephan 13:30:47 q+ 13:30:58 q+ 13:31:02 ack HadleyBeeman 13:31:07 christianmiranda has joined #dwbp 13:31:14 http://www.w3.org/2013/05/odbp-charter.html#Scope 13:31:34 HadleyBeeman: Charter - our working group will be agnostic for technology... 13:32:17 q+ 13:32:17 I come from the URI 13:32:17 HadleyBeeman: If we do our jobs properly our impact can be greater than linked data. 13:32:18 q? 13:32:27 q+ 13:32:27 ack Tcarrasco 13:32:41 how about the provenance metadata for measuring quality of the Web data? 13:32:55 ack me 13:33:10 danke 13:33:32 kool 13:33:32 JoaoPauloAlmedia: To answer your question, how can data be published on the web for better interoperability. 13:33:44 +1 13:33:58 JoaoPauloAlmedia: When selecting a vocabulary or schema, how should we do that? 13:33:59 q+ to answer this question 13:34:29 q- 13:34:45 JoaoPauloAlmedia: How should it look like as it is expressed in different technologies, for mulitople levels of interoperability. 13:35:18 JoaoPauloAlmedia: How can domains come together to define vocabularies and follow best practices that others can consume? 13:35:37 ack next 13:36:01 PhilA, thanks, I changed my SIP provider 13:36:34 Zakim, who is speaking 13:36:34 I don't understand 'who is speaking', JoaoPauloAlmeida 13:36:40 zakim, who's making noise? 13:36:41 Zakim, who is talking? 13:36:47 zakim, mute me 13:36:47 Tcarrasco should now be muted 13:36:48 Zakim, mute me 13:36:49 JoaoPauloAlmeida should now be muted 13:36:51 yaso, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: JoaoPauloAlmeida (50%) 13:37:02 JoaoPauloAlmeida, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds 13:37:08 MakxDekkers: Just following up on dimensions and what was said earlier. When we talk about data, what data are we talking about, vocabularies, documents, images, sensor data, how can we abstract to something that is general. 13:37:31 All data 13:37:32 MakxDekkers: I've always tried to find out when we talk about data, what do we mean? 13:37:38 q+ 13:37:40 All data... 13:37:53 zakim, unmute me 13:37:53 Tcarrasco should no longer be muted 13:37:58 all of it 13:37:59 to me primarily "structured data" 13:38:01 all data 13:38:10 but we would need to define that, which is tricky 13:38:11 +Yaso.aa 13:38:14 -q 13:38:23 -Yaso.a 13:38:36 http://www.od4d.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/cadeiaDadosAbertosGerenciamentoCicloEn.png 13:38:38 ack yaso 13:39:35 Bernadette has joined #dwbp 13:39:40 Or type 13:40:18 q+ 13:40:31 Yaso: Used a draft to put data on the web, training managers, handle each phase separating how data is put on the web. We could treat the process as a real life cycle 13:41:02 q- 13:41:08 Steve: Information, Linked Data, Web is everyone clear about these terms. 13:41:09 -1 13:41:24 q+ 13:41:34 s/Web/Web and Open Data/ 13:42:04 in our sense, Open data is at least data that can be used across actors 13:42:12 that someone else will be able to consume 13:42:13 q+ 13:42:40 again, from the charter: "The mission of the Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group, part of the Data Activity, is: 13:42:41 - to develop the open data ecosystem, facilitating better communication between developers and publishers;" 13:42:48 Steve: For you the scope is the EU decides what data is open and what is closed for best practices. 13:42:51 so "communication" is key 13:43:15 q? 13:43:18 The scope is best practices for data publishing on the web and IMO openness should be one of the best practices 13:43:23 ack MakxDekkers 13:43:43 MakxDekkers: While preparing for the call, is it open data is what you can get to. 13:43:57 +1 13:43:58 MakxDekkers: Our focus should be "data on the web" 13:44:12 q+ 13:44:12 ack me 13:44:20 The URI http://example.com/1122 might have some variants with clean data and some variants with unclean data 13:44:53 PhilA: In the charter it does say open data is in scope. 13:45:22 I think we should cover whatever data on the web (open or closed) but encourage open data as one of the best practices (you may decide to be fulfilling or not) 13:45:26 q- 13:45:39 PhilA: Example: Open Data is used to augment data being held internally. 13:45:42 +q 13:45:48 q+ 13:45:53 If we ensure semantic interoperability than we are a long way towards "openness" 13:45:54 The data might start as confidential and later might become open (published) 13:46:19 well, if the data is "closed" on the Web, it will be difficult to have access and consume it... 13:46:35 ErikMannens has joined #dwbp 13:46:41 q+ 13:46:43 Open - has a temporal nature 13:46:50 as well in the sciences 13:47:23 Steve: Cultural and resource limitations of publishing open data 13:47:26 Zakim, who is speaking? 13:47:43 JoaoPauloAlmeida, listening for 15 seconds I could not identify any sounds 13:48:25 Steve: What are the steps and best practices, want to publish the data on the web, other layers. 13:48:27 q+ 13:49:15 PhilA, thanks 13:49:38 ack ericstephan 13:49:41 ack MakxDekkers 13:50:10 q+ 13:50:22 ack jao 13:50:24 +1 to focus on organizational aspects first 13:50:24 MakxDekkers: Sometimes people have a technology focus. Licensing arrangement is important 13:50:39 Data quality might be a dimension. For example, the same data (Spanish, XML, raw-data), (Spanish,XML,cleaned). 13:50:57 MakxDekkers: Quality, guarentees, persistency over time, etc. 13:51:03 Am I hearing Makx offering to lead the work on the extension to DCAT to cover quality and commitment? 13:51:03 in addition to cultural, political, and financial factors, there are also organizational and legal practices to consider 13:51:04 need to know the challenges well before being able of start evaluating technical decissions 13:51:20 ack JoaoPauloAlmeida 13:51:22 -JoaoPauloAlmeida 13:51:38 ack me 13:51:40 sorry, call dropped :-( 13:51:52 Dimensions: language, format, quality, time (previous versions) 13:51:55 +??P12 13:52:00 Zakim, ??P12 is me 13:52:00 +JoaoPauloAlmeida; got it 13:52:06 Vagner_Br has joined #dwbp 13:52:19 PhilA: Agreed with Makx, organizational aspects etc. W3C is a technical organization...technolgical details is fine 13:52:20 q+ 13:52:57 PhilA: Recommends MakxDekkers for Data Quality Vocab 13:53:02 ack MakxDekkers 13:53:28 +1 to PhilA recommendation 13:53:33 +1 13:53:41 the call dropped when I was about to speak: It seems to me that before discussing "use cases" we need some basic concepts. We need to use the BP document from GLDWG, which already has a "process" for open data and other sources such as the cycle that Yaso presented. 13:53:42 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/gld/raw-file/default/bp/index.html 13:53:42 +1 13:53:48 MakxDekkers++ 13:54:08 +1 13:54:13 +1 13:54:14 +1 13:54:15 +1 13:54:25 No just agreeing with you 13:55:06 Zakim, mute me 13:55:06 JoaoPauloAlmeida should now be muted 13:55:08 +1 13:55:10 Steve: Put out article in magazine to make people more aware of what we are doing 13:55:28 This? http://ibmdatamag.com/2014/01/data-open-to-the-masses/ 13:55:34 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:55:48 Steve: IBM article gets 30-70K people looking at this 13:55:48 That's the one MakxDekkers 13:56:04 TOPIC FTF Meeting in London 13:56:12 Topic: FTF Meeting in London 13:56:20 q+ 13:56:23 mememto http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc7089 13:56:32 Are dates for the F2F final? 13:56:33 Skeleton page in place on the wiki at https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/London_2014 13:56:45 ack antoine 13:56:47 s/mememto/memento/ 13:56:47 Steve: Technical dimensions, cultural, political, organizational, language etc all in scope 13:56:52 ErikMannens has joined #dwbp 13:57:09 Steve: could be 1.5 to 2 full days 13:57:41 Steve: March 31- April 1 Any problems with these days? 13:57:49 q+ 13:58:14 mid-morning to mid-afternoon? 13:58:19 ack ericstephan 13:58:44 +1 to PhilA recommnedation 13:58:45 Steve: Remote capabilities available 13:59:16 Should we vote on this? 13:59:25 Or should we do this in email? 14:00:15 q+ 14:00:17 Steve: Local speakers could be brought in from other efforts 14:00:45 q? 14:00:51 PhilA: I believe that is off 14:01:00 I suggest 2 full days. It is gonna be the first F2F meeting. Many issues to address. 14:01:04 +1 to Hadley 14:01:07 oops you didn't say that PhilA - I was directing comment to you 14:02:11 Steve: First half of first day use cases and challenges as well as agenda. 14:02:14 there could be "position statements" (how each of us perceive scope and intent) 14:02:15 Sorry, have to run. Will read minutes. Talk to you next week. 14:02:22 -Makx_Dekkers 14:02:33 HadleyBeeman: Hammer this out on wiki page 14:02:37 https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/London_2014 14:02:54 futuristic 14:03:25 ack antoine 14:03:52 +1 14:04:03 speakers should be very well selected... 14:04:05 Antoine: The agenda to get people in from the Open Data movement in the UK. Would this remove our focus? 14:04:19 q+ 14:04:37 Steve: Not a workshop, just some speakers to help provide different points of view 14:04:48 How about guests cf. speakers? i.e. invite Jeni along for a session or two 14:05:03