16:54:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #audio
16:54:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-audio-irc
16:54:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:54:46 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #audio
16:54:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 28346
16:54:48 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see RWC_Audio()12:00PM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
16:54:49 <trackbot> Meeting: Audio Working Group Teleconference
16:54:49 <trackbot> Date: 06 February 2014
16:55:00 <olivier> Chair: olivier
16:55:16 <olivier> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2014JanMar/0066.html
16:55:54 <olivier> Agenda+ Review of action items
16:56:05 <olivier> Agenda+ Dynamics compressor issue
16:56:08 <olivier> Agenda+ Dezippering
16:56:14 <olivier> Agenda+ Cross-origin media requests
16:58:02 <Zakim> RWC_Audio()12:00PM has now started
16:58:10 <Zakim> +padenot
17:00:29 <Zakim> +[Google]
17:00:43 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:00:49 <olivier> zakim, IPcaller is me
17:00:49 <Zakim> +olivier; got it
17:01:09 <cwilso> zakim, google is me
17:01:09 <Zakim> +cwilso; got it
17:02:19 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 1
17:02:19 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Review of action items" taken up [from olivier]
17:02:21 <olivier> http://www.w3.org/2011/audio/track/agenda
17:03:27 <olivier> ACTION-70 closed
17:03:27 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-70.
17:04:04 <olivier> action-80 due in 2 weeks
17:04:05 <trackbot> Set action-80 Remove webaudio section on example applications, photos from section on convolution, and salvage anything valuable due date to 2014-02-20.
17:04:49 <olivier> action-81 due in 2 weeks
17:04:49 <trackbot> Set action-81 Contact tag, point them to tag issues in github, continue conversation there due date to 2014-02-20.
17:05:35 <olivier> action-86 due in 2 weeks
17:05:35 <trackbot> Set action-86 Document the case of mediaelementaudiosource and mediastreamaudiosource nodes in offlineaudiocontext on github due date to 2014-02-20.
17:06:24 <olivier> action-89 - ongoing
17:06:32 <olivier> padenot: I have a spec draft for this
17:07:18 <olivier> ... and for the phase too
17:07:34 <olivier> spec'd in terms of odd function with an upward slopw
17:07:40 <olivier> s/slopw/slope/
17:07:55 <olivier> padenot: not mathematical formulas
17:08:10 <olivier> action-89 due in 2 weeks
17:08:10 <trackbot> Set action-89 Look at current implementations, and draft interface to request mathematical oscillator (issues/127) and specify phase (base on pr 270) due date to 2014-02-20.
17:09:01 <olivier> action-90: ongoing... the github issue has solution
17:09:01 <trackbot> Notes added to action-90 Look into https://github.com/webaudio/web-audio-api/issues/15 - assess how complex the change would be (and ideally suggest pr to spec).
17:09:32 <olivier> action-90: the actual patch remains to be added to the spec
17:09:32 <trackbot> Notes added to action-90 Look into https://github.com/webaudio/web-audio-api/issues/15 - assess how complex the change would be (and ideally suggest pr to spec).
17:09:37 <olivier> action-90 due in 2 weeks
17:09:37 <trackbot> Set action-90 Look into https://github.com/webaudio/web-audio-api/issues/15 - assess how complex the change would be (and ideally suggest pr to spec) due date to 2014-02-20.
17:10:52 <olivier> action-92: cwilso says he has looked into it with Ray and Alex. Should be doable but makes the problem with scriptprocessor even worse
17:10:52 <trackbot> Notes added to action-92 Report on exploration of performance impact of github issue 268.
17:11:32 <olivier> cwilso: we really need to come up with worker scriptprocessor sooner rather than later
17:11:45 <olivier> ... open to other inputs, but that is current thinking
17:12:01 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
17:13:45 <olivier> olivier: what's stopping us from doing worker scriptprocessornode, other than complexity / time consuming
17:14:12 <olivier> cwilso: may be hard to deploy across platforms
17:14:37 <olivier> olivier: don't remember if we'd wanted to keep them out of scope for v1
17:15:00 <olivier> cwilso: CRogers wanted to do something better than workers IIRC
17:16:38 <olivier> olivier: I actually recall this was in scope and assigned to CRogers, but never touched... probably because it is challenging/imperfect
17:17:30 <olivier> padenot: we need a solution - lots of demand for scriptprocessor node, and it doesn't do what people want
17:18:01 <olivier> ... as currently spec'd, it will glitch.
17:18:08 <olivier> ... feedback from game devs was negative
17:18:19 <olivier> ... we have some workarounds in gecko, not quite good enough
17:18:54 <olivier> cwilso: good idea to get padenot, ROC and cwilso to sketch a solution
17:19:00 <olivier> padenot: timezone might make it hard
17:19:14 <olivier> ... I could ask ROC to summarise, and then you and me sketch a solution?
17:19:52 <GitHubBot> GitHubBot has joined #audio
17:19:52 <GitHubBot> [web-midi-api] toyoshim opened pull request #97: size attribute must be unsigned long (gh-pages...ul_size) https://github.com/WebAudio/web-midi-api/pull/97
17:19:52 <GitHubBot> GitHubBot has left #audio
17:21:46 <olivier> olivier: worth thinking about including Alex/TAG in discussion at some point, without going full-on design by committee
17:22:02 <olivier> action-92 due in 2 weeks
17:22:02 <trackbot> Set action-92 Report on exploration of performance impact of github issue 268 due date to 2014-02-20.
17:23:07 <olivier> action-93 closed
17:23:07 <trackbot> Closed action-93.
17:23:13 <olivier> see https://github.com/webaudio/web-audio-api/issues/254
17:23:21 <olivier> zakim, close agendum 1
17:23:21 <Zakim> agendum 1, Review of action items, closed
17:23:22 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:23:22 <Zakim> 2. Dynamics compressor issue [from olivier]
17:23:27 <olivier> agenda?
17:24:01 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 3
17:24:01 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Dezippering" taken up [from olivier]
17:25:09 <olivier> objections voiced by KarlT -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013OctDec/0340.html
17:26:36 <olivier> cwilso: was confused by the objection on delaytime, sounds like a bug
17:27:36 <olivier> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013OctDec/0335.html
17:28:03 <cwilso> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013OctDec/0339.html
17:28:35 <olivier> cwilso: sounds like implementation bug
17:31:47 <olivier> olivier: confused - we did discuss this and chose consistency over choosing a "best" behaviour for every possible parameter
17:31:59 <olivier> ... and try to be "nicer" to less-advanced developers
17:33:29 <olivier> cwilso: need to separate the issue of implementation bug with setValueAtTime/delayTime with question of default behaviour
17:34:52 <olivier> olivier: we still need to address http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013OctDec/0340.html
17:37:08 <olivier> cwilso: [looking in spec]
17:38:13 <olivier> cwilso: interestingly, it appears that we have computed values as well as intrinsic values
17:38:37 <olivier> ... not clear to me what the getter is supposed to return
17:39:51 <olivier> cwilso: “When read, the value attribute always returns the intrinsic value for the current time”
17:39:55 <olivier> ... so karl's point is valud
17:39:59 <olivier> s/valud/valid/
17:40:37 <olivier> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#computedValue-AudioParam-section
17:40:54 <olivier> cwilso: points are correct and the cost of having automatic dezippering
17:41:12 <olivier> ... in either case a knowledgeable developer can fix the problem
17:42:22 <olivier> olivier: how about better documentation of .value in http://www.w3.org/TR/webaudio/#AudioParam
17:43:56 <olivier> ... better explain .value both as setter and getter
17:44:16 <olivier> cwilso: yes we need to better document it, especially for things like gainnode if we remove dezippering
17:46:46 <olivier> olivier: understand this is a cost of dezippering. If everyone understands the cost and it is well documented, then it does not seem to pose a strong challenge to the decision?
17:47:01 <olivier> cwilso: to be fair to Karl we probably don't understand the cost all too well
17:47:42 <olivier> ... ultimately we're going to add work for advanced developers, or get bad quality for naive developers
17:48:06 <olivier> ... cwilso: would be simpler to not do dezippering
17:48:19 <olivier> ... also cost of removing it today for existing code
17:49:54 <olivier> olivier: difficult to decide between making it easy for novice devs or making sure they learn faster
17:50:11 <olivier> ... given that the two choices are almost equivalent in pain/gain, tempted by status quo
17:50:23 <olivier> ... (implementation status quo)
17:51:35 <olivier> zakim, close agendum 3
17:51:35 <Zakim> agendum 3, Dezippering, closed
17:51:36 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:51:36 <Zakim> 2. Dynamics compressor issue [from olivier]
17:52:11 <olivier> zakim, take up agendum 4
17:52:11 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Cross-origin media requests" taken up [from olivier]
17:52:16 <olivier> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2013JulSep/0219.html
17:52:16 <olivier> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-audio/2014JanMar/0035.html
17:52:29 <olivier> padenot: shouldn't allow inspection of cross-origin media using web audio
17:52:36 <olivier> ... possible ATM in blink and webkit
17:52:58 <olivier> ... you can e.g. do speech recog of cross-origin media
17:53:40 <olivier> ... proposal we have is that if media is cross-origin and cross-origin request not allowed, media should play as it does today, but if it goes into web audio, it should be muted
17:53:53 <olivier> ... similar to canvas
17:54:14 <olivier> cwilso: [thoughtful grunt]
17:55:08 <olivier> ... concerned that it would stop people doing simple things
17:55:18 <olivier> ... but it does sounds reasonable
17:55:44 <olivier> olivier: would it make sense to throw exception in addition to muting?
17:56:21 <olivier> padenot: we just log a message in the dev tools
17:58:29 <olivier> Resolution: tentative consensus around https://github.com/webaudio/web-audio-api/issues/282 - olivier to send formal CfC alongside minutes, ends in a week
17:59:14 <olivier> Topic: next teleconference
17:59:19 <olivier> 20th February 2014, same time
17:59:33 <olivier> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:59:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-audio-minutes.html olivier
17:59:44 <Zakim> -cwilso
17:59:46 <Zakim> -olivier
17:59:46 <olivier> zakim, bye
17:59:46 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were padenot, olivier, cwilso, Doug_Schepers
17:59:46 <Zakim> Zakim has left #audio
17:59:52 <olivier> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:59:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/06-audio-minutes.html olivier
18:00:08 <olivier> rrsagent, bye
18:00:08 <RRSAgent> I see no action items