IRC log of webapps on 2014-02-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/02/05-webapps-irc
01:07:36 [Travis]
RRSAgent: this meeting spans midnight
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01:15:56 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.936.aaaa
01:16:35 [garykac]
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01:16:39 [Travis]
zakim, +1.1425. is garykac
01:16:39 [Zakim]
sorry, Travis, I do not recognize a party named '+1.1425.'
01:16:49 [Travis]
zakim, +1.425. is garykac
01:16:49 [Zakim]
+garykac; got it
01:18:52 [masayuki]
Hi.
01:19:02 [garykac]
Hello
01:19:08 [Travis]
Hi!
01:19:37 [Travis]
I've had some recent conversations with HTML5 co-chairs about their references to our spec.
01:20:20 [Travis]
There is a concern that we may not be to Rec by the time that HTML5.0 goes to REC (anticipated by EOY).
01:20:25 [garykac]
Were there any places in particular that they were concerned about?
01:20:51 [Travis]
I don't recall any specific references, only that there was "a dependency" there.
01:21:08 [Travis]
I've looked through the spec recently to find the places where DOMEVENTS is referenced.
01:21:28 [Travis]
These seem to included references to "click", other mouse events, mutation events, and focus events.
01:21:58 [Travis]
Notably, I did not see any references to our spec from the input/beforeinput
01:22:36 [Travis]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/single-page.html
01:22:44 [Travis]
(That's 5.1)
01:23:29 [Travis]
Latest 5.0 heartbeat:
01:23:30 [Travis]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/CR-html5-20140204/
01:23:55 [Travis]
beforeinput does not seem to be there.
01:25:05 [Travis]
'input' is referenced. I searched for "named input" to find the occurances.
01:26:17 [Travis]
'input' seems to be fully specified in the spec (it's a "simple event" of Event interface).
01:28:23 [Travis]
Here is where beforeinput may have been used:
01:28:24 [Travis]
https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/editing/raw-file/tip/editing.html
01:29:23 [garykac]
AFAIK, no one is working on that at the moment.
01:30:26 [Travis]
That spec makes "beforeinput" (for editing and use in execCommand) a EditingBeforeInputEvent
01:31:01 [Travis]
Editing spec appears to have stalled a bit.
01:32:30 [garykac]
On 20 Feb 2013, Aryeh posted to public-webapps confirming that he is no longer actively working on it, but would be happy to help a new editor get up to speed.
01:32:46 [garykac]
So I don't expect anything to come out of that spec anytime soon.
01:32:49 [Travis]
Back to testing... In terms of unblocking the HTML5 spec, we may want to concentrate our efforts on testing the parts of our spec that are referenced from HTML5.
01:32:52 [Travis]
Happily, the Keyboard events are not called out, so that may give us some lead time.
01:34:46 [Travis]
We could prioritize testing the parts of the spec that HTML5 depends on (the older stable stuff), so that if anyone comes asking us, we can say that the parts that HTML5 depends on are solid and have the proof of that in hand.
01:34:55 [garykac]
What exactly do you mean by "testing" these parts? You mean independent vendor testing or official W3C tests?
01:35:17 [Travis]
Well, there are multiple definitions... :)
01:35:39 [garykac]
What are people looking for? These events are fairly hard to test in an automated way.
01:35:50 [Travis]
I think the conformance folks will want to see tests that can be used in an implementation report.
01:36:00 [Travis]
So, automated or not, it doesn't really matter.
01:36:01 [garykac]
Would they be content with manual tests?
01:36:07 [garykac]
Sounds like it
01:36:07 [Travis]
Yeah.
01:37:25 [garykac]
We'll have to dig into the tests and figure out where we stand...
01:37:48 [Travis]
While you are focused on editing the spec, I can review what tests exist for DOM3 in web-platform-tests, and whether the "basics" are already covered...
01:37:59 [garykac]
BTW, do we (should we) provide a link to the tests in the spec?
01:38:25 [garykac]
It seems like it would be useful, but I haven't seen other specs do that.
01:38:31 [Travis]
I noticed that reSpec has a convenient hook for reporting the test suite location...
01:38:52 [garykac]
One global test location? Or a pointer from each relevant section in the spec?
01:39:06 [Travis]
A URL to a test suite (any path)
01:39:18 [Travis]
It goes in header section.
01:39:40 [Travis]
Example: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/innerhtml/raw-file/tip/LCWD-DOM-Parsing-20131205.html
01:40:27 [Travis]
garykac: We should collate all the tests we can find and point them out.
01:40:35 [garykac]
sounds good. I'd love to add these links in the spec.
01:42:18 [Travis]
garykac: AnneVK had some feedback on UI Events.
01:42:49 [Travis]
... he may be hoping that UI Events details this.
01:43:02 [Travis]
... doesn't seem to affect DOM3.
01:43:14 [Travis]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?component=DOM3%20Events&list_id=31835&product=WebAppsWG&resolution=---
01:43:20 [Travis]
(Bug list)
01:43:23 [Travis]
For next week !
01:43:36 [Travis]
16 bugs
01:43:43 [Travis]
We can review them next week.
01:44:06 [Travis]
That's all I've got for today!
01:44:08 [garykac]
We'll meet again next week and I'll have some updates on the bugs.
01:44:15 [Travis]
Sounds good.
01:47:17 [garykac]
Talk to you all next week.
01:47:18 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
01:47:21 [Zakim]
-garykac
01:47:22 [Zakim]
RWC_WAPI(D3E)8:00PM has ended
01:47:22 [Zakim]
Attendees were [Microsoft], +1.425.936.aaaa, garykac
01:48:17 [Travis]
RRSAgent: make logs public
01:48:33 [Travis]
RRSAgent: generate the minutes
01:48:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/05-webapps-minutes.html Travis
01:49:28 [Travis]
scribe: Travis
01:49:35 [Travis]
scribeNick: Travis
01:49:40 [Travis]
Present+ garykac
01:49:44 [Travis]
Present+ Travis
01:49:48 [Travis]
Present+ masayuki
01:49:55 [Travis]
rrsagent, generate the minutes
01:49:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/02/05-webapps-minutes.html Travis
01:51:33 [masayuki]
See you.
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18:52:36 [jgraham]
Not sure it's a topic of conversation that comes up much there
18:52:57 [hober]
yeah, vegas is much more concerned with the shadow dom bruhaha
18:53:37 [jgraham]
Seriously, the rumor is that Tab and Maciej have lined up a big money fight
19:02:53 [ArtB]
lol
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13:07:11 [jgraham]
So webapps is having two meetings in California in the same year? That sucks, no?
13:08:05 [ArtB]
yes that is the proposal and yes that will prolly be suboptimal for some people
13:14:33 [jgraham]
Well I didn't see the proposal in January, or I would have objected then. I understand that there are a lot of people who are based in California, but having two meetings a year in more or less the same location seems unreasonable
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13:18:45 [ArtB]
one issue is the host and the only org that volunteered is in the Silicon Valley
13:19:15 [ArtB]
there is also an issue of co-locating the meeting to facilitate coordination as well as reduce some travel
13:19:47 [ArtB]
(FYI, SysApps is also trying to co-locate their f2f meeting)
13:27:16 [jgraham]
I understand that it's difficult if only one organisation is offering to host. Unfortunately webapps is just too big for Mozilla-London so I'm not able to help out there. But I nevertheless think that an effort should be made to have geographically distributed F2F meetings. As it is 3/4 meetings in 2013-2014 are in the same location (more or less).
13:32:11 [ArtB]
yes, we hear you jgraham
13:44:48 [ArtB]
jgraham, do you think you'll be able to make the April meeting?
13:46:03 [jgraham]
ArtB: I don't know. I am not desperate to go all that way unless I am sure it will be useful
13:46:41 [jgraham]
And I haven't asked if it is possible for budget/etc. reasons, even assuming I think it's worthwhile
13:54:13 [chaals]
jgraham we do indeed hear you.
13:54:34 [chaals]
(especially because getting russian visas for the US is a serious PITA)
13:55:18 [chaals]
But effectively the people to complain to are those who seem unwilling to travel anywhere else...
13:58:19 [ArtB]
RRSAgent, bye
13:58:19 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items