IRC log of html-a11y on 2014-02-03

Timestamps are in UTC.

22:49:21 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
22:49:23 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
22:49:25 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 2119
22:49:25 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
22:49:26 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
22:49:26 [trackbot]
Date: 03 February 2014
22:50:24 [MarkS]
Meeting: Canvas Accessibility Sub-Group Teleconference
22:51:57 [MarkS]
agenda+ Concerns raised by Mozilla
22:51:57 [MarkS]
agenda+ When Canvas can go back to LC
22:51:57 [MarkS]
agenda+ Next Meeting
22:52:03 [MarkS]
zakim, agenda?
22:52:03 [Zakim]
I see 8 items remaining on the agenda:
22:52:04 [Zakim]
6. Any Remaining A11yTF Bugs? [from janina]
22:52:04 [Zakim]
7. Bug Triage: Review of Resolved Bugs tracked by TF [from see below via janina]
22:52:04 [Zakim]
8. Other Business [from janina]
22:52:04 [Zakim]
9. Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference [from janina]
22:52:05 [Zakim]
10. be done [from janina]
22:52:05 [Zakim]
11. Concerns raised by Mozilla [from MarkS]
22:52:05 [Zakim]
12. When Canvas can go back to LC [from MarkS]
22:52:05 [Zakim]
13. Next Meeting [from MarkS]
22:52:18 [MarkS]
zakim, drop items 6,7,8,9,10
22:52:18 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'drop items 6,7,8,9,10', MarkS
22:52:27 [MarkS]
zakim, clear agenda
22:52:27 [Zakim]
agenda cleared
22:52:49 [MarkS]
agenda+ Concerns raised by Mozilla
22:52:49 [MarkS]
agenda+ When Canvas can go back to LC
22:52:49 [MarkS]
agenda+ Next Meeting
22:53:09 [MarkS]
scribe: MarkS
22:53:18 [MarkS]
chair: MarkS
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WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has now started
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22:58:38 [Zakim]
22:59:46 [Zakim]
23:00:04 [Zakim]
23:00:10 [jaymunro]
zakim, microsoft has me
23:00:10 [Zakim]
+jaymunro; got it
23:00:20 [MarkS]
zakim, [Mozilla] is davidb
23:00:20 [Zakim]
+davidb; got it
23:01:03 [MarkS]
zakim, take up item 1
23:01:03 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Concerns raised by Mozilla" taken up [from MarkS]
23:01:47 [JatinderMann]
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23:02:08 [MarkS]
DB: It appears as though there was a reaction to the discussion at Mozilla. I was surprised that Dominic withdrew his support.
23:02:26 [Zakim]
23:02:29 [MarkS]
...need to ask him. Want to give Alex and Rik some space to explore hit regions
23:02:48 [MarkS]
zakim, [Microsoft is JatinderMann
23:02:48 [Zakim]
sorry, MarkS, I do not recognize a party named '[Microsoft'
23:02:56 [MarkS]
23:03:39 [MarkS]
zakim, [Microsoft.a] is JatinderMann
23:03:39 [Zakim]
+JatinderMann; got it
23:05:40 [MarkS]
DB: worried that the AAPI doesn't have enough info about siblings and children, etc.
23:06:26 [Mike5]
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23:06:32 [MarkS]
RS: I understand that info gets stored in the layout engine, and in the AAPI. If you do average scrolling, the info get updated. The issue we had was if the viewport needed to be scrolled into view, which we handled in our spec changes
23:06:40 [Mike5]
Zakim, call Mike
23:06:40 [Zakim]
ok, Mike5; the call is being made
23:06:41 [Zakim]
23:06:54 [MarkS]
...When the discussion was happening, Zynga was not pleased with hit testing approach. They wanted something "fuzzier"
23:07:10 [MarkS]
...they wanted to modify the actually hit or trigger area
23:07:51 [MarkS]
...when hit testing was put into the spec, Microsoft didn't have a chance to review it. It was later taken out. So we focused on the drawSystemFocusRing, now drawFocusIfNeeded approach to handle a11y.
23:08:24 [MarkS] order for hit regions to work, we have to work on Path as well. Most of this is Canvas L2 stuff.
23:08:33 [MarkS]
DB: Who is responsible for storing the current path
23:08:34 [MarkS]
23:08:42 [MarkS]
RS: its the object, the canvas object.
23:09:01 [MarkS]
...I think the drawFocusIfNeeded and Hit Regions need to coexist
23:09:18 [MarkS]
DB: It could cause a problem, I don't know.
23:09:45 [MarkS]
RS: If we do implement hit regions, we could say that it overrides any drawFocusIfNeeded processing.
23:09:53 [MarkS]
DB: right one would need priority
23:11:04 [MarkS]
...we wanted to explore hit testing. if it doesn't work out, we wanted to consider focus outline as a backup
23:11:26 [MarkS]
...if hit testing goes really well, we're not sure what we would do with focus outline approach
23:11:50 [MarkS]
JMann: So hit testing might solve the problem we solve with drawFocus?
23:12:06 [MarkS]
RS: It would solve the location info, but not the outline drawing
23:12:31 [MarkS]
JMann: so we have two potential solutions, but would only need to support one?
23:12:52 [MarkS]
RS: IF we had two, could one affect the setting of the other?
23:13:04 [MarkS]
DB: I'm looking out for the cognitive load on the developer
23:13:32 [MarkS]
JMann: If we support drawFocus, and then hit testing comes around, how does that affect the developer
23:13:45 [MarkS]
RS: Hit testing was always in the plan. The question is how long people will have to wait.
23:14:23 [MarkS]
JMann: imagine we support drawFocus, hit testing in L2 will have to play nicely with drawFocus
23:15:35 [MarkS]
RS: I don't think it would be a problem. We'd be applying hit regions in a similar manner to how its done in the OS. The thing is, if we add hit testing, if someone supplies a hit region, it takes precedence over any other location information
23:16:16 [MarkS]
JMann: whatever we build in L2, it has to play well with L1. I just worry about compatibility. Espeicially if our only motivation is to get something out the door.
23:16:33 [MarkS]
RS: We will still need to handle drawing the focus, including high contrast.
23:17:26 [MarkS]
DB: as far as I'm concerned, neither option is off the table. Trevor didn't accept the patch, but that is not final. We would like to take a week on this to do some exploration.
23:17:42 [MarkS]
...I have reached out to Dominic. Don't want to bother him too much.
23:17:52 [MarkS]
RS: Better if it came from Moz.
23:18:48 [MarkS]
MS: encourage Moz to post to public-canvas-api
23:18:58 [MarkS]
zakim, agenda?
23:18:58 [Zakim]
I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
23:18:59 [Zakim]
1. Concerns raised by Mozilla [from MarkS]
23:18:59 [Zakim]
2. When Canvas can go back to LC [from MarkS]
23:18:59 [Zakim]
3. Next Meeting [from MarkS]
23:21:00 [MarkS]
JMunro: looking at hit regions, just wanted to say Path is critical to that. If we are thinking about going down that road, there is a lot of work to do on both
23:22:08 [MarkS]
JMann: happy with drawFocus in L1 and hit regions in L2 as long as there is no backwards compatibility issues.
23:23:35 [MarkS]
RS: I don't think they are going to draw the actual focus in hit regions
23:23:47 [Zakim]
23:23:48 [Zakim]
23:23:48 [Zakim]
23:23:50 [Zakim]
23:23:51 [Zakim]
23:24:00 [MarkS]
zakim, close item 1
23:24:00 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Concerns raised by Mozilla, closed
23:24:01 [Zakim]
I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
23:24:01 [Zakim]
2. When Canvas can go back to LC [from MarkS]
23:24:07 [MarkS]
zakim, take up item 2
23:24:07 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "When Canvas can go back to LC" taken up [from MarkS]
23:24:21 [MarkS]
MS: I will update Paul this week in the TF call
23:24:30 [MarkS]
zakim, close item 2
23:24:30 [Zakim]
agendum 2, When Canvas can go back to LC, closed
23:24:31 [Zakim]
I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
23:24:31 [Zakim]
3. Next Meeting [from MarkS]
23:24:36 [MarkS]
zakim, take up next item
23:24:36 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Next Meeting" taken up [from MarkS]
23:24:42 [MarkS]
See you all next week.
23:24:53 [MarkS]
zakim, who is on the phone?
23:24:53 [Zakim]
On the phone I see davidb
23:24:56 [jaymunro]
thanks mark
23:25:26 [MarkS]
rrsagent, make minutes
23:25:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate MarkS
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zakim, drop davidb
23:31:34 [Zakim]
davidb is being disconnected
23:31:35 [Zakim]
WAI_HTML AT()6:00PM has ended
23:31:35 [Zakim]
Attendees were MarkS, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, jaymunro, davidb, [Microsoft], JatinderMann, Mike
23:42:03 [MarkS]
rrsagent, make minutes
23:42:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate MarkS
04:38:48 [cabanier_]
MarkS: sorry I missed the meeting!
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