15:57:32 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg
15:57:32 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/29-rdf-wg-irc
15:57:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:57:34 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rdf-wg
15:57:36 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
15:57:36 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
15:57:37 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:57:37 <trackbot> Date: 29 January 2014
15:58:24 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
15:58:24 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, Guus
15:58:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Guus, gkellogg, TallTed, gavinc, yvesr, manu, sandro, ericP, trackbot
15:58:50 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-wg
15:58:58 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-wg
15:59:44 <pfps> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:59:44 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, pfps
15:59:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see pfps, AZ, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, gkellogg, TallTed, gavinc, yvesr, manu, sandro, ericP, trackbot
16:00:38 <tbaker> tbaker has joined #rdf-wg
16:02:13 <Guus> zakim, who is here~?
16:02:13 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, Guus.
16:02:20 <sandro> trackbot, start meeting
16:02:20 <pfps> zakim, who is here?
16:02:20 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, pfps
16:02:21 <Zakim> On IRC I see tbaker, pfps, AZ, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, gkellogg, TallTed, gavinc, yvesr, manu, sandro, ericP, trackbot
16:02:22 <pchampin> pchampin has joined #rdf-wg
16:02:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:02:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
16:02:24 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
16:02:25 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
16:02:25 <trackbot> Date: 29 January 2014
16:02:36 <Guus> zakim, this is 73394
16:02:36 <Zakim> ok, Guus; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
16:02:46 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
16:02:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, pfps, ??P22, Sandro, ??P27, AZ
16:02:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see pchampin, tbaker, pfps, AZ, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, gkellogg, TallTed, gavinc, yvesr, manu, sandro, ericP, trackbot
16:02:52 <markus> markus has joined #rdf-wg
16:03:00 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P22 is me
16:03:01 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
16:03:04 <Zakim> +??P33
16:03:09 <gkellogg> zakim, ??P27 is me
16:03:09 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
16:03:13 <pchampin> zakim, ??P33 is me
16:03:13 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
16:03:55 <Guus> zakim, pick a scribe
16:03:57 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose yvesr
16:04:10 <yvesr> scribe: yvesr
16:04:16 <markus> zakim, code?
16:04:16 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), markus
16:04:17 <Guus> chair: Guus
16:04:25 <Zakim> + +1.202.248.aaaa
16:04:32 <Zakim> +Tom_Baker (was +1.202.248.aaaa)
16:04:58 <Zakim> +??P39
16:05:01 <markus> zakim, ??P39 is me
16:05:01 <Zakim> +markus; got it
16:05:24 <sandro> q+ to say something about commonscribe
16:05:37 <pfps> minutes look fine to me
16:06:01 <Zakim> +GavinC
16:06:44 <yvesr> RESOLVED to accept the minutes from the previous meeting
16:07:03 <yvesr> topic: Action items
16:07:15 <yvesr> Guus: let's go through old action items
16:07:29 <yvesr> Guus: Comment on issue 148 - that's done
16:07:54 <yvesr> Guus: My response to Greg Williams fell through the cracks - I didn't have the time to do it
16:08:15 <yvesr> ... Should I still do that?
16:08:26 <yvesr> gavinc: Is it the ongoing n-triples / utf-8 issue?
16:08:37 <yvesr> ... if so, then they need to deal with it
16:08:40 <pfps> that sounds like a resolution :-)
16:08:42 <yvesr> Guus: I am going to drop my action
16:08:54 <yvesr> Guus: there was two actions on gavinc
16:08:58 <Zakim> +PatH
16:09:05 <yvesr> gavinc: I am interested in the solution to issue 281
16:09:20 <yvesr> ... But now it's a 404 - which I find perfectly acceptable, but it's all gone
16:09:25 <yvesr> ... /tr/turtle/tests
16:09:42 <PatH> PatH has joined #rdf-wg
16:10:22 <yvesr> ... (something about relative URLs and symlinks)
16:10:55 <yvesr> gavinc: We broke the web- this is acceptable - we should move on :)
16:10:58 <pfps> q+
16:11:12 <sandro> q-
16:11:14 <pfps> q+ to note that there are some open issues!
16:11:14 <yvesr> Guus: One action is still open - RDF and RDF namespaces
16:11:20 <gkellogg> q+ to ask about ACTION-337
16:11:44 <yvesr> ... Not extremely urgent, but would be nice if fixed in two weeks
16:11:57 <Zakim> +Souri
16:11:57 <yvesr> pfps: There are two open issues
16:12:09 <yvesr> Guus: There are two issues to do with the Primer
16:12:20 <yvesr> ... It would be good to formally close them - but they have nothing to do with the REC documents
16:12:21 <pfps> q-
16:12:24 <Souri> Souri has joined #rdf-wg
16:12:26 <yvesr> ... Let's get back to it later
16:12:40 <yvesr> Guus: New publications - we published RDF 1.1 documents on the 9th of January
16:12:50 <yvesr> ... and the JSON-LD REC has been published
16:12:55 <yvesr> ... Congratulations to all involved!
16:13:17 <gkellogg> ACTION-337?
16:13:17 <trackbot> ACTION-337 -- Gregg Kellogg to Find some test cases for https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-xml/index.html#parsetypeliteralpropertyelt -- due 2013-12-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:13:17 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/337
16:13:19 <yvesr> gkellogg: There is ACTION-337 which needs further work
16:13:32 <yvesr> ... Test-cases for creating RDF literals from RDF-XML
16:14:05 <yvesr> manu: I had an action to create test-cases for RDF literals for RDF-XML
16:14:12 <yvesr> ... They are available as references in the action item
16:14:26 <yvesr> ... I generated test results based on my own processor
16:14:49 <yvesr> ... Could someone who implemented that verify what I've done?
16:15:50 <Zakim> +ericP
16:16:10 <yvesr> topic: Comments on PR transition
16:16:17 <yvesr> Guus: We'll talk about PR process latr
16:16:26 <yvesr> Guus: Quite a lot of discussions on language tags case conflict
16:16:32 <yvesr> ... I think there's a very good reason to do nothing
16:16:43 <yvesr> ... Is there a good reason to do anything?
16:17:00 <pfps> isn't it the case that lowercasing is correct, in some sense?
16:17:01 <yvesr> Guus: We could create an issue and postpone it
16:17:08 <yvesr> gavinc: I don't think this issue is going away
16:17:11 <pfps> q+
16:17:19 <gkellogg> q-
16:17:35 <yvesr> sandro: We should probably create a wiki page listing all the options
16:17:45 <yvesr> s/options/postponed issues
16:18:11 <yvesr> Guus: I still think we should do nothing in this case
16:18:27 <yvesr> Guus: There's a new comment on N-Triples
16:18:37 <yvesr> gavinc: The @ token is duplicated
16:18:48 <yvesr> ... It involves the literal production and the lang tag
16:19:00 <yvesr> Guus: I would be very surprised if we couldn't fix that before REC
16:19:03 <yvesr> sandro: Yes, no problem
16:19:26 <yvesr> ACTION on gavinc to fix the @ token duplication
16:19:26 <trackbot> Error finding 'on'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.
16:19:33 <yvesr> ACTION gavinc to fix the @ token duplication
16:19:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-338 - Fix the @ token duplication [on Gavin Carothers - due 2014-02-05].
16:19:54 <yvesr> Guus: That should handle that comment
16:20:03 <pfps> q+
16:20:04 <yvesr> Guus: There was a comment about d-entailment
16:20:11 <yvesr> ... Richard already replied
16:20:17 <pfps> q-
16:20:27 <yvesr> ... That RDF Concepts should be read first
16:20:41 <yvesr> PatH: There's one point that Alex is misunderstanding - and the rest is in Concepts
16:20:55 <AZ> s/Alex/Axel/
16:21:03 <yvesr> ... I'll write a couple of sentences to deal with this misunderstanding
16:21:15 <yvesr> ACTION PatH to respond to Axel on d-entailment
16:21:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-339 - Respond to axel on d-entailment [on Patrick Hayes - due 2014-02-05].
16:21:33 <yvesr> Guus: The last one was a comment about Turtle
16:22:10 <yvesr> gavinc: The first one is an example using a prefix without declaring it
16:22:15 <yvesr> ... It shouldn't do that
16:22:34 <yvesr> gavinc: I am not sure about the prefix names comment
16:22:47 <yvesr> Guus: Would you be willing to respond to the commenter?
16:22:54 <gavinc> The specification of prefixed names does not explicitly mention the meaning of ':' (i. e. "current document") if the empty prefix is not declared. That is an important hint for people new to the language. Wording similar to "If the empty prefix ':' is not explicitly declared, it is relative to the current document root."
16:22:59 <yvesr> pfps: I think there's some confusion
16:23:05 <gavinc> <>
16:23:09 <yvesr> gavinc: He might be looking for a feature that Turtle does not have
16:23:25 <gkellogg> I think empty prefix was <#> in N3, was it not?
16:23:37 <yvesr> ACTION gavinc to respond to Lars about his Turtle comments
16:23:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-340 - Respond to lars about his turtle comments [on Gavin Carothers - due 2014-02-05].
16:24:13 <yvesr> gavinc: in N3, the empty prefix is bound to a default URI, which is not true in Turtle
16:24:35 <yvesr> Guus: A link to the original TriG document is broken
16:24:49 <yvesr> ... I would like to add the right link to the REC
16:25:02 <yvesr> ACTION Guus to ask Richard about original TriG link
16:25:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-341 - Ask richard about original trig link [on Guus Schreiber - due 2014-02-05].
16:25:49 <yvesr> topic: PR process
16:26:08 <AZ> Zakim, who is noisy?
16:26:09 <yvesr> Guus: Any updates on the AC votes?
16:26:20 <Zakim> AZ, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus_Schreiber (24%), Sandro (15%), PatH (40%)
16:26:55 <yvesr> Guus: All the votes for JSON-LD were published on a public mailing list - but nobody complained - did something change in the process?
16:27:34 <gkellogg> s/Guus: All the votes for JSON-LD were published on a public mailing list - but nobody complained - did something change in the process?//
16:28:17 <yvesr> Guus: Ivan asked a question about the final shortnames - so that people typing the URL of the old REC would get redirected to the new REC
16:28:38 <yvesr> sandro: That's only for Concepts and Semantics
16:29:35 <PatH> Would that make it impossible to read the old ones?? If so I object to that.
16:29:51 <yvesr> sandro: We don't usually redirect - worth discussing further
16:29:59 <gavinc> PatH, no you'd just need the DIRECT link to the specific version
16:30:00 <ericP> +1 to alert box
16:30:14 <pfps> +1 to alerting the universe about the change
16:30:19 <yvesr> Guus: It also holds for Schema, XML Syntax and Primer
16:30:21 <PatH> +1 to alert box on old one to indicate it is obsolete, but it should be readable.
16:30:44 <gavinc> can someone update http://www.w3.org/TeamSubmission/turtle/ too?
16:31:06 <ericP> it's a good idea
16:31:07 <yvesr> sandro: Why do you want RDF 1.1 as part of the URL?
16:31:16 <ericP> i ownder if we own that doc or if the submitter does
16:31:20 <yvesr> Guus: Can someone change the short name at this point in time?
16:31:40 <yvesr> gavinc: If we can't do the redirects, what will happen to all the already existing 1.1 URLs
16:31:48 <yvesr> ... It will need to go one way or another
16:31:59 <yvesr> Guus: Happy either way as long as it is conformant with W3C policy
16:32:41 <yvesr> gkellogg: I don't think the old URLs have any values going forward
16:32:52 <PatH> I am against redirections. It sounds like a tar-pit and its not necessary.
16:33:00 <yvesr> ... If I wanted to go to RDF-MT, if we add more and more shortnames it will add confusion
16:33:13 <yvesr> ... We need a shortname that consistently gets to the latest version
16:33:18 <PatH> The old URLs have a lot of value for checking the history of ideas.
16:33:23 <yvesr> Guus: That suggests redirecting to RDF-MT
16:33:41 <pfps> are we angels dancing on a version 1.1 pin here?
16:33:42 <yvesr> gavinc: There should be a reference in the header of the recommendation to the last version of the old one
16:34:01 <yvesr> Guus: We may need to discuss that with the activity lead
16:34:43 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/REC-owl2-primer-20121211/
16:34:45 <yvesr> PatH: I don't think we should do any of these options - each document should have is own URL
16:35:03 <yvesr> sandro: That doesn't preclude a 'latest version' URL
16:35:07 <AZ> Why not do like for OWL 2: old document has a message that links to the new http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-ref/
16:35:14 <yvesr> Guus: And you would expect that to get to the RDF 1.1 version
16:35:44 <sandro> for OWL2 we didn't reuse any names.
16:36:08 <ericP> PatH, the prob is that we have only 2 urls/doc, instead of 3.
16:36:12 <yvesr> PatH: It's perfectly clear there's two version of RDF - RDF '0' and RDF 1.1 - so what's wrong with that?
16:36:26 <yvesr> Guus: I'll bring this up with Ralph
16:36:42 <yvesr> ACTION Guus to discuss short names for RDF 1.1 with Ralph
16:36:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-342 - Discuss short names for rdf 1.1 with ralph [on Guus Schreiber - due 2014-02-05].
16:37:01 <yvesr> Guus: Target REC dates
16:37:28 <yvesr> ... The poll ends on the 9th of February - within one or two weeks after that date we should set a date for REC publication
16:37:36 <yvesr> ... I'd like to propose a date now
16:37:42 <yvesr> ... 25 of Feb or 27
16:38:07 <yvesr> ... It would have been nice to go for the 10th, as it's exactly 10 years after the last version
16:38:20 <yvesr> sandro: It might be possible
16:38:40 <yvesr> Guus: I'd prefer not to do that - there will be a few things to be settled
16:38:49 <yvesr> ... What about the 25?
16:38:52 <pfps> fine by me
16:38:59 <markus> +1
16:39:14 <yvesr> Guus: We want to publish the revised Notes at the same time
16:39:16 <ericP> +1, but bummer about missing the 10y aniv
16:39:24 <PatH> So we can say it took MORE than ten years..
16:39:24 <yvesr> Guus: Let's settle for the 25, then
16:39:50 <markus> https://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/JSON_LD_Errata
16:40:11 <markus> http://www.w3.org/2014/json-ld-errata
16:40:21 <yvesr> Guus: We have an errate page for JSON-LD
16:40:26 <yvesr> s/errate/errata
16:40:31 <markus> the second one is the stable one used in the REC
16:40:34 <PatH> On reflection, I withdraw my comments about redirecting short names. Y'all do whatever you think is best :-)
16:40:53 <yvesr> Guus: The idea is that these pages will be wiki pages, so that anyone with a semantic web account can edit that page
16:41:16 <yvesr> ... I am happy to do all the admin stuff for the final REC
16:41:21 <yvesr> ... But we have plenty of time for that
16:41:47 <yvesr> Guus: Let's move on with the Notes
16:41:51 <yvesr> topic: Notes
16:42:03 <yvesr> Guus: On the Primer we got 4 quite extensive set of comments
16:42:08 <yvesr> ... I responded to two of them
16:42:25 <yvesr> ... In two weeks we should be able to discuss the revised version
16:42:40 <yvesr> ... The idea is that we publish that Note on the 25th - same day as the day the REC go out
16:42:59 <yvesr> Guus: One question - what's currently the main entry point for Linked Data?
16:43:06 <yvesr> http://linkeddata.org/?
16:43:24 <PatH_> PatH_ has joined #rdf-wg
16:43:35 <yvesr> (a bit oudated, but in the other case it's the OKFN directory)
16:43:41 <yvesr> (which might be too messy)
16:44:15 <yvesr> Guus: That's all for the primer - let's talk about datasets
16:44:16 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
16:44:28 <yvesr> Guus: What's left to do on that note?
16:44:40 <yvesr> AZ: There are two issues mentioning the document
16:44:48 <AndyS> AndyS has left #rdf-wg
16:44:53 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-wg
16:45:22 <yvesr> ... PatH mentioned a couple of rephrasing of that note
16:45:31 <yvesr> s/of/on
16:45:58 <yvesr> ACTION PatH to do an additional review of the dataset note
16:45:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-343 - Do an additional review of the dataset note [on Patrick Hayes - due 2014-02-05].
16:46:13 <yvesr> Guus: That's all for datasets - Test Cases now
16:46:38 <AZ> Note on dataset semantics http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf11-datasets/
16:46:39 <yvesr> ... There were a couple of disagreements on how stable wiki pages are
16:46:52 <yvesr> ... I would like to propose to publish the RDF 1.1 test cases as a WG Note
16:47:12 <yvesr> gkellogg: Pretty much all of the information that was in the wikis and READMEs should be replicated in that document
16:47:20 <yvesr> ... So there's just one place for people to look at
16:47:28 <yvesr> ... This does *not* include any RDF/XML test cases
16:47:40 <yvesr> Guus: Any particular views on this?
16:47:59 <yvesr> gkellogg: Are the test cases correct still?
16:48:21 <yvesr> ... When taking into account the RDF/XML changes?
16:48:46 <yvesr> Guus: I'd like to propose to the WG that we have a version ready for next time
16:48:57 <markus> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf11-testcases/index.html
16:49:11 <yvesr> Guus: We should move forward on publishing test cases as a note
16:49:25 <yvesr> Guus: The other issue is for the test cases involving XML literals in RDF/XML
16:49:34 <yvesr> ... Now that these literals are non-normative
16:50:31 <gkellogg> Current location of test cases for RDF/XML: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-xml/tests/
16:53:01 <yvesr> Guus: I propose we should include tests for features that are non normative
16:53:29 <yvesr> s/non normative/normative
16:53:45 <yvesr> ... And exclude the non-normative ones
16:55:09 <yvesr> Guus: We're going to approve the same tests as before, for the ones concerning features that are still normative
16:55:18 <yvesr> ... And we'll publish them as a note when the REC are out
16:56:10 <yvesr> ACTION manu to take care of RDF/XML tests for next week
16:56:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-344 - Take care of rdf/xml tests for next week [on Manu Sporny - due 2014-02-05].
16:56:42 <yvesr> Guus: Next telecon will be on the 12th of Feb
16:56:59 <yvesr> ... Hopefully we have a positive AC vote by then
16:57:05 <yvesr> topic: AOB
16:58:07 <yvesr> Guus: We're adjourned
16:58:08 <Zakim> -ericP
16:58:08 <Zakim> -Souri
16:58:09 <Zakim> -gkellogg
16:58:10 <Zakim> -pfps
16:58:11 <Zakim> -GavinC
16:58:11 <Zakim> -markus
16:58:12 <Zakim> -PatH
16:58:12 <Zakim> -AZ
16:58:14 <Zakim> -Sandro
16:58:14 <Zakim> -tbaker
16:58:15 <Zakim> -Guus_Schreiber
16:58:17 <Zakim> -yvesr
16:58:24 <Guus> trackbot, end meeting
16:58:24 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:58:25 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Guus_Schreiber, pfps, Sandro, AZ, yvesr, gkellogg, pchampin, markus, GavinC, tbaker, PatH, Souri, ericP
16:58:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:58:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/29-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot
16:58:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:58:33 <RRSAgent> I see no action items