14:36:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eval
14:36:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/23-eval-irc
14:36:39 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:36:39 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #eval
14:36:41 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3825
14:36:41 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 24 minutes
14:36:42 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG 2.0 Evaluation Methodology Task Force Teleconference
14:36:42 <trackbot> Date: 23 January 2014
14:52:07 <Vivienne> Vivienne has joined #eval
14:53:15 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has now started
14:53:22 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:53:28 <Vivienne> zakim, IPcaller is me
14:53:28 <Zakim> +Vivienne; got it
14:57:49 <Zakim> +Shadi
14:58:32 <ericvelleman> ericvelleman has joined #eval
14:59:26 <agarrison> agarrison has joined #eval
14:59:44 <agarrison> I'm going to be a couple of minutes late...
15:00:12 <Liz> Liz has joined #eval
15:00:58 <Zakim> +Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:01:12 <Zakim> +Liz
15:01:27 <Detlev> Detlev has joined #eval
15:02:08 <Mike_Elledge> Mike_Elledge has joined #eval
15:02:34 <Zakim> +Detlev
15:02:36 <Zakim> +EricVelleman
15:02:37 <Zakim> +Mike_Elledge
15:02:46 <Detlev> Zakim, mute me
15:02:47 <Zakim> Detlev should now be muted
15:03:36 <Detlev> hi
15:04:05 <shadi> scribe: shadi
15:04:18 <richard> richard has joined #eval
15:04:23 <shadi> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-evaltf/2014Jan/0016.html
15:04:35 <shadi> agenda+ Follow up discussion about latest Editor Draft and DoC
15:04:46 <shadi> agenda+ Open issues and last discussions for this version
15:04:53 <shadi> agenda+ Test-run thoughts
15:05:03 <shadi> agenda+ Face-to-Face Meeting at CSUN
15:05:11 <shadi> zakim, mute me
15:05:11 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
15:05:14 <MaryJo> MaryJo has joined #eval
15:05:16 <shadi> zakim, take up next
15:05:16 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Follow up discussion about latest Editor Draft and DoC" taken up [from shadi]
15:05:22 <ericvelleman> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20140121
15:05:50 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:05:51 <agarrison> zakim, ipcaller is Alistair
15:05:51 <Zakim> +Alistair; got it
15:06:10 <gavinevans> gavinevans has joined #eval
15:06:17 <shadi> EV: updated Editor Draft of 21 January
15:06:24 <shadi> ...treid to integrate some comments
15:07:01 <shadi> q+
15:07:33 <shadi> ack me
15:08:26 <shadi> s/some/most
15:08:30 <Zakim> + +44.179.281.aaaa
15:08:55 <ericvelleman> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20131129
15:09:18 <shadi> ...there are two disposition of comments
15:09:54 <shadi> ...one from 26 February Working Draft
15:09:59 <shadi> ...the second from 29 November Editor Draft
15:10:51 <shadi> ...missing just a few comments to integrate
15:11:05 <shadi> ...particularly on adding a section on "responsive design"
15:11:38 <shadi> SAZ: action on Kathy, need to check with her if she can get it in time
15:12:03 <Vivienne> q+
15:12:12 <shadi> EV: otherwise need to add an editor note for review
15:12:18 <Mike_Elledge> q+
15:12:46 <shadi> EV: comment #72 to add arrows from each step to step 5
15:12:46 <Detlev> I don''t understand the issue - can you explain, Eric?
15:12:57 <shadi> ...graphic was from Kathy?
15:14:34 <shadi> ME: need a section for responsive design?
15:14:51 <shadi> SAZ: actually a paragraph in the list under "Particular Evaluation Contexts"
15:17:20 <shadi> ME: could then shorten the note in section "website in multiple versions" if we have a specific section on responsive design
15:17:33 <Vivienne> zakim, mute me
15:17:33 <Zakim> Vivienne should now be muted
15:17:39 <shadi> EV: need text from Kathy first
15:17:54 <shadi> q?
15:18:02 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft has joined #eval
15:18:03 <Zakim> + +1.978.899.aabb
15:18:13 <shadi> ack mike
15:18:21 <shadi> ack viv
15:18:22 <Vivienne> zakim, ack me
15:18:22 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
15:18:28 <MoeKraft> Zakim , aabb is MoeKraft
15:18:38 <Vivienne> zakim, mute me
15:18:38 <Zakim> Vivienne should now be muted
15:18:57 <Detlev> q+
15:19:36 <Detlev> ack me
15:19:53 <shadi> EV: back to comment #72, everyone OK with an arrow from each step to step 5?
15:20:05 <shadi> DF: diagram already quite complex
15:20:18 <shadi> ...will that really make it better?
15:20:46 <shadi> EV: agree but more precise
15:20:53 <shadi> DF: quite self-explanatory
15:21:02 <shadi> ...but the important message is the feedback loop
15:21:14 <shadi> ...not the fact that you need reporting all the time
15:21:25 <Vivienne> I'm not too worried about it
15:21:31 <Detlev> Zakim, mute me
15:21:31 <Zakim> Detlev should now be muted
15:21:57 <Detlev> leave as is
15:22:02 <ericvelleman> -1
15:22:07 <agarrison> -1
15:22:12 <Mike_Elledge> -1 (keep the same)
15:22:14 <MaryJo> -1
15:22:19 <Liz> Leave as is
15:22:51 <shadi> [poll on making the change of adding arrows above]
15:23:09 <shadi> RESOLUTION: keep it as-is in the upcoming draft for more discussion
15:25:10 <Mike_Elledge> q+
15:25:43 <Zakim> -Mike_Elledge
15:26:24 <MaryJo> keep as is, lists of one are not optimal.
15:26:27 <Zakim> +Mike_Elledge
15:27:15 <ericvelleman> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20140121#step5d
15:28:06 <Detlev> Should be "Aggregated Score" not "Aggregation Score"
15:28:21 <shadi> EV: had agreed to drop "Per Instance" score approach
15:28:36 <shadi> ...also dropped "Web Web Page" scoring
15:28:53 <shadi> ...and renamed to "Aggregated Score" to make clearer
15:28:54 <shadi> q+
15:28:55 <Detlev> q+
15:29:00 <shadi> q- later
15:29:05 <shadi> q- mike
15:29:07 <Detlev> ack me
15:29:33 <Zakim> -Mike_Elledge
15:29:46 <ericvelleman> q?
15:30:31 <shadi> DF: do we remove "Per Web Page" score as well?
15:30:52 <shadi> ...if one SC is missed on one page gets reflected highly
15:31:09 <shadi> ack me
15:31:54 <Detlev> Zakim, mute me
15:31:54 <Zakim> Detlev should now be muted
15:32:13 <MaryJo> q+
15:32:42 <Detlev> per page would work fine for me
15:33:03 <shadi> SAZ: agreed on "Per Web Page" than "Per Website"
15:33:36 <shadi> ...also need to discuss opening up to other scoring approaches
15:34:20 <shadi> MJ: think "Per Website" makes more sense
15:36:32 <Detlev> q+
15:36:44 <Detlev> ack me
15:37:05 <shadi> [SAZ explains "Per Web Page" vs "Per Website"]
15:37:34 <shadi> DF: approach of calculating over all pages is what we do
15:37:37 <gavinevans> q+
15:37:54 <shadi> ...but some may argue that this could raise discussion
15:38:02 <shadi> ack mary
15:39:18 <shadi> ..."Per Website" loses quantitative aspects
15:40:01 <shadi> EV: in The Netherlands it is done the other way around
15:40:27 <shadi> DF: "Per Web Page" can mask issues, like CAPTCHA that is critical
15:41:12 <shadi> ..."Per Website" is more sensitive and forces people to look at the issues more closely
15:41:31 <shadi> ...people can also add their own scores approach on top
15:41:54 <shadi> q?
15:41:54 <shadi> q+
15:42:39 <Detlev> hello, can of worms,,
15:42:51 <shadi> GE: maybe could come up with an approach to measure the aggregate score
15:42:55 <Vivienne> q+
15:43:12 <shadi> ...like multiply certain types of issues with a factor
15:43:17 <shadi> ack gavin
15:43:20 <shadi> q- later
15:44:23 <shadi> ...often get asked to provide a score for organizations
15:45:32 <Vivienne> zakim, ack me
15:45:32 <Zakim> unmuting Vivienne
15:45:33 <Zakim> I see shadi on the speaker queue
15:46:06 <shadi> VC: difference between WCAG 1.0 and WCAG 2.0 in the level assignment
15:46:23 <shadi> ...that has impact on scoring
15:46:52 <shadi> ...gets into controversy
15:47:37 <shadi> GE: more for research on analyzing different websites that an individual website
15:48:52 <MoeKraft> q+
15:50:07 <shadi> ack me
15:50:29 <shadi> SAZ: sophisticated scoring gets very complex and controversial
15:51:16 <shadi> ...but intent is to communicate improvement over time
15:51:50 <shadi> ..."Per Website" better communicates progress but can also cascade serious issues
15:51:55 <Detlev> q+
15:52:18 <shadi> MK: should add disclaimer that there is no widely recognized scoring mechanism
15:52:23 <shadi> ack moe
15:52:36 <Detlev> ack me
15:52:39 <shadi> EV: have very tentative text
15:53:41 <shadi> DF: often have incidental issues that could have significant effect
15:54:38 <shadi> ...could be a systemic pattern but still has little impact on website after all
15:55:49 <Vivienne> I'd vote to add the other back in and have 2 choices
15:55:54 <Detlev> Vote?
15:56:10 <Detlev> agree with Vivienne to have both in
15:56:20 <Liz> both in
15:57:00 <gavinevans> both in
15:57:03 <MoeKraft> keep both
15:57:06 <Detlev> Rationale: having both in will gneerate more helpful comments
15:57:12 <shadi> SAZ: add "Per Website" back in and move discussion to next publication
15:57:37 <shadi> RESOLUTION: add "Per Website" back in and move discussion to next publication
15:57:54 <shadi> agenda?
15:58:07 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 4
15:58:07 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Face-to-Face Meeting at CSUN" taken up [from shadi]
16:00:56 <Detlev> no
16:01:00 <Detlev> I mena yes
16:01:13 <Detlev> Bye
16:01:15 <Vivienne> goodnight all.
16:01:20 <Liz> bye
16:01:20 <agarrison> bye
16:01:24 <Zakim> -Detlev
16:01:25 <Zakim> -Vivienne
16:01:26 <Zakim> -Alistair
16:01:27 <ericvelleman> ericvelleman has left #eval
16:01:29 <Zakim> -Mary_Jo_Mueller
16:01:30 <Zakim> - +44.179.281.aaaa
16:01:30 <gavinevans> bye
16:01:33 <Zakim> -Shadi
16:01:34 <Zakim> -EricVelleman
16:01:36 <gavinevans> gavinevans has left #eval
16:01:45 <Zakim> -Liz
16:02:03 <Zakim> - +1.978.899.aabb
16:02:04 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has ended
16:02:04 <Zakim> Attendees were Vivienne, Shadi, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Liz, Detlev, EricVelleman, Mike_Elledge, Alistair, +44.179.281.aaaa, +1.978.899.aabb
16:07:21 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
16:07:21 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:07:21 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:07:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:07:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/23-eval-minutes.html trackbot
16:07:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:07:30 <RRSAgent> I see no action items