IRC log of mobile-a11y on 2014-01-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:37:57 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y

14:37:57 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/17-mobile-a11y-irc

14:37:59 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs 328

14:37:59 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y

14:38:01 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be

14:38:01 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

14:38:02 [trackbot]

Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference

14:38:02 [trackbot]

Date: 17 January 2014

14:40:08 [KimPatch]

zakim, this will be 6283

14:40:08 [Zakim]

ok, KimPatch; I see WAI_MATF()10:00AM scheduled to start in 20 minutes

14:41:18 [KimPatch]

rrsagent, make log world

14:41:32 [KimPatch]

chair: Kathleen_Wahlbin

14:41:42 [KimPatch]

agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2013Dec/0002.html

14:43:11 [jeanne]

jeanne has joined #mobile-a11y

14:44:19 [KimPatch]

regrets+ Detlev

14:49:01 [Zakim]

WAI_MATF()10:00AM has now started

14:49:08 [Zakim]

+Kim_Patch

14:50:59 [Alan_]

Alan_ has joined #mobile-a11y

14:51:48 [Alan_]

Will need to drop around 10:30 or 10:45 as I am presenting Windows 8 touch functionality to my company

14:55:44 [Zakim]

+Kathy_Wahlbin

14:55:57 [DavidTodd]

DavidTodd has joined #mobile-a11y

14:56:21 [Kathy]

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140113_survey/results

14:57:32 [Zakim]

+ +1.720.663.aaaa

14:58:10 [Zakim]

+Alan_Smith

14:58:22 [DavidTodd]

Zakim, aaaa is me

14:58:22 [Zakim]

+DavidTodd; got it

14:58:37 [Kathleen]

Kathleen has joined #mobile-a11y

14:59:15 [Zakim]

+ +1.910.278.aabb

14:59:55 [Kathleen]

zakim, aabb is me

14:59:55 [Zakim]

+Kathleen; got it

15:00:24 [Zakim]

+ +1.917.887.aacc

15:00:30 [Zakim]

+??P0

15:00:40 [MichaelC]

zakim, ??P0 is Michael_Cooper

15:00:40 [Zakim]

+Michael_Cooper; got it

15:00:59 [MichaelC]

zakim, aacc is Karen_McGrane

15:00:59 [Zakim]

+Karen_McGrane; got it

15:01:24 [MichaelC]

zakim, who is on the phone?

15:01:24 [Zakim]

On the phone I see Kim_Patch, Kathy_Wahlbin, DavidTodd, Alan_Smith, Kathleen, Karen_McGrane, Michael_Cooper

15:01:38 [Zakim]

+Jeanne

15:01:50 [KMcGrane]

KMcGrane has joined #mobile-a11y

15:02:07 [MichaelC]

zakim, mute me

15:02:07 [Zakim]

Michael_Cooper should now be muted

15:02:42 [MichaelC]

zakim, unmute me

15:02:42 [Zakim]

Michael_Cooper should no longer be muted

15:02:54 [MichaelC]

zakim, mute me

15:02:54 [Zakim]

Michael_Cooper should now be muted

15:04:03 [DavidTodd]

Zakim, aaaa is me

15:04:03 [Zakim]

sorry, DavidTodd, I do not recognize a party named 'aaaa'

15:04:07 [Kathy]

https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/66524/20140113_survey/results

15:04:15 [KimPatch]

scribe: DavidTodd

15:04:17 [jeanne]

agenda?

15:05:03 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Review last week topics.

15:05:07 [Kathy]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/MATF_Deliverables

15:05:25 [KimPatch]

TOPIC: MATF Deliverables discussion starting with survey

15:06:02 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Do we agree with list of deliverables?

15:06:34 [Zakim]

-Alan_Smith

15:06:57 [Zakim]

+Alan_Smith

15:07:03 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: We should include native app techniques.

15:07:36 [jeanne]

WCAG2ICT <- http://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict/

15:07:39 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Add itc documents to number 1.

15:08:01 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: is mobile referenced in itc doc?

15:08:56 [jeanne]

action: jeanne to research wcag2ict to find the sections related to mobile.

15:08:56 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-5 - Research wcag2ict to find the sections related to mobile. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-01-24].

15:09:07 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Why was mobile not called out in itc doc?

15:09:42 [DavidTodd]

Jeanne: We can't add mobile to itc doc but we can add a note.

15:10:03 [DavidTodd]

Jeanne: Make it clear that we plan to write new techniques.

15:11:15 [DavidTodd]

Jeanne: Clean up the personaes.

15:12:18 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Blog will document settlement agreements and other legals issues. Should we add a link to it?

15:13:11 [DavidTodd]

Group: We agree a link to settlement agreements should be added.

15:13:23 [Kathy]

action: Kathy to add settlement agreement link to accessibility resources

15:13:23 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-6 - Add settlement agreement link to accessibility resources [on Kathleen Wahlbin - due 2014-01-24].

15:15:05 [DavidTodd]

Kim: Regarding personas, we should create a survey to develop.

15:15:44 [DavidTodd]

Group: will move forward with creating a survey.

15:16:09 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Second item - develop personas.

15:17:00 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: review existing and develop new personas.

15:17:26 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Create a matrix tools people are using on mobile.

15:17:48 [wuwei]

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15:18:05 [DavidTodd]

Jeanne: Include what people use the technologies for.

15:18:34 [wuwei]

wuwei has joined #mobile-a11y

15:19:09 [jeanne]

s/Jeanne: /Kim:

15:19:19 [DavidTodd]

Kim: Create use cases for tools.

15:19:34 [Zakim]

+EricP

15:19:55 [wuwei]

zakim, EricP is wuwei

15:19:55 [Zakim]

+wuwei; got it

15:20:01 [wuwei]

zakim, mute me

15:20:01 [Zakim]

wuwei should now be muted

15:20:58 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Survey cannot be statistically valid.

15:21:35 [Alan_]

They switched me to the first presenter. Need to drop now. Sorry.

15:21:44 [DavidTodd]

Jeanne: Look at existing survey tools.

15:22:14 [Zakim]

-Alan_Smith

15:22:17 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: We should look at existing surveys but develop our own.

15:22:45 [jeanne]

Jeanne: Another challenge with personas are the people with multiple disabilities

15:23:22 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Personas (how many should we develop?)

15:23:41 [DavidTodd]

Karen: More isn't necessarily better.

15:23:57 [wwu]

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15:24:08 [DavidTodd]

Karen: Common behaviors is important to capture.

15:24:30 [DavidTodd]

Karen: Probably over 12 personas is too many.

15:25:37 [jeanne]

+1 to <12 personas and focus on similarities

15:25:41 [DavidTodd]

Kim: Lots of people with different needs.

15:26:29 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Keep personas to a manageable number.

15:27:02 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Jeanne, how do you develop personas?

15:28:26 [DavidTodd]

Jeanne: Interviews (12 or more) then put out a survey. Capture full scope of some of the findings. Results must be manageable. Must capture range of variations.

15:29:38 [jeanne]

s/Jeanne, /Karen,

15:29:56 [DavidTodd]

Kathy & Jeanne: List of deliverables looks great.

15:30:04 [jeanne]

s/Jeanne: Interviews /Karen: Interviews

15:30:08 [wwu]

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15:31:06 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Run the list of deliverables by the working group.

15:31:07 [KimPatch]

TOPIC: Discussion on Mobile Accessibility Techniques

15:31:24 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: We plan to write new techniques.

15:32:18 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Native apps vs. Web apps (should they be separate?).

15:33:08 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Should we create new techniques or add to existing ones?

15:33:41 [DavidTodd]

Jeanne: They should be part of WCAG but be tagged for easy identification.

15:33:53 [DavidTodd]

Kim: That makes sense.

15:34:42 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Can tag an existing techniques with mobile tags.

15:35:03 [jeanne]

jeanne: and do gap analysis of where new techniques are needed.

15:35:34 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Start with existing list of techniques and identify where mobile should be included.

15:36:22 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Get volunteers to go through existing techniques to do gap analysis.

15:37:05 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: There are a number of technologies documented in WCAG (html, css, flash, etc.).

15:37:14 [Kathy]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques

15:37:52 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Posted a link to techniques that are being worked on.

15:38:23 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: What's the best way to go through the techniques?

15:38:56 [DavidTodd]

Jeanne: Look at success criteria first.

15:39:38 [DavidTodd]

Kim: Set up a wiki page to collect our work.

15:40:16 [Zakim]

-Karen_McGrane

15:40:31 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Start with success criteria first.

15:40:55 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Someone want to take 1.1.1?

15:40:55 [Kathy]

http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/

15:41:38 [jeanne]

HOw to Meet <- http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/quickref/20120103/

15:42:03 [DavidTodd]

Kath: Look at techniques under success criteria first.

15:42:29 [DavidTodd]

Jeanne: Start with Jeanne's link.

15:43:30 [DavidTodd]

Jeanne: Jeanne's page makes it clear about what to do.

15:45:47 [DavidTodd]

Group: Discussing procedure to document mobile gap analysis.

15:46:44 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: WCAG guidelines don't change, the techniques do (for mobile).

15:47:22 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Copy entire technique, change it, send to working group for approval.

15:47:34 [Zakim]

+Alan_Smith

15:48:32 [Alan_]

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15:49:24 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Identify which techniques apply to mobile. Don't want to get into specifics of what's to be added right now.

15:50:00 [DavidTodd]

Jeanne: Okay to put examples and notes in changes.

15:50:16 [DavidTodd]

Group: Everyone would benefit by seeing an example.

15:50:37 [jeanne]

action: Jeanne and Kim to create an example of WCAG technique edit page

15:50:38 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-7 - And kim to create an example of wcag technique edit page [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2014-01-24].

15:50:38 [DavidTodd]

Jeanne & Kim: Will create an example.

15:50:50 [wwu]

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15:51:12 [KimPatch]

TOPIC: Resource List - what should we do to get this ready for publication?

15:51:40 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: What should we include in resources to get it ready for publications?

15:52:30 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Use same format as on W3C sight, provide creation date, provide description.

15:53:06 [DavidTodd]

Jeanne: Propose how the page should be updated.

15:53:18 [Kathy]

http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Mobile_Resources

15:54:05 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: Can someone add in source, format, creation date.

15:54:33 [DavidTodd]

Kim: Most of resources are self explanatory.

15:54:58 [DavidTodd]

Kim: Will look at them regarding description.

15:56:11 [DavidTodd]

Kim: A lot of the don't need dates (e.g., Web pages). The ones that need dates are documents and videos.

15:56:49 [Kathy]

http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#references

15:57:08 [DavidTodd]

Kim: 16 Dec 2012 is the correct date format.

15:58:07 [DavidTodd]

Kathy: A lot of work to format.

15:58:25 [DavidTodd]

s/Kathy/Kim/

15:59:43 [DavidTodd]

Jeanne: Formatting provides meta data but usability suffers.

16:00:29 [DavidTodd]

Group: Will not format resources.

16:01:15 [DavidTodd]

Alan & Kim: will work on resources.

16:02:40 [Zakim]

-Alan_Smith

16:02:41 [Zakim]

-DavidTodd

16:02:41 [Zakim]

-Kathleen

16:02:46 [Zakim]

-wuwei

16:03:08 [Zakim]

-Michael_Cooper

16:03:12 [Kathy]

rrsagent, make minutes

16:03:12 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/17-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kathy

16:03:20 [Kathy]

2. trackbot, end meeting

16:03:28 [Kathy]

trackbot, end meeting

16:03:28 [trackbot]

Zakim, list attendees

16:03:28 [Zakim]

As of this point the attendees have been Kim_Patch, Kathy_Wahlbin, +1.720.663.aaaa, Alan_Smith, DavidTodd, +1.910.278.aabb, Kathleen, +1.917.887.aacc, Michael_Cooper,

16:03:31 [Zakim]

... Karen_McGrane, Jeanne, wuwei

16:03:36 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:03:36 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/17-mobile-a11y-minutes.html trackbot

16:03:37 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, bye

16:03:37 [RRSAgent]

I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2014/01/17-mobile-a11y-actions.rdf :

16:03:37 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: jeanne to research wcag2ict to find the sections related to mobile. [1]

16:03:37 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/01/17-mobile-a11y-irc#T15-08-56

16:03:37 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Kathy to add settlement agreement link to accessibility resources [2]

16:03:37 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/01/17-mobile-a11y-irc#T15-13-23

16:03:37 [RRSAgent]

ACTION: Jeanne and Kim to create an example of WCAG technique edit page [3]

16:03:37 [RRSAgent]

recorded in http://www.w3.org/2014/01/17-mobile-a11y-irc#T15-50-37