IRC log of tt on 2014-01-16

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:56:48 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #tt
14:56:48 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/16-tt-irc
14:56:50 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs public
14:56:50 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #tt
14:56:52 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be TTML
14:56:52 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:56:53 [trackbot]: Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
14:56:53 [trackbot]: Date: 16 January 2014
14:57:04 [Zakim]: SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started
14:57:12 [Zakim]: +??P6
14:57:15 [nigel]: zakim, ??P6 is me
14:57:15 [Zakim]: +nigel; got it
14:59:26 [tmichel]: tmichel has joined #tt
14:59:33 [nigel]: rrsagent, make logs public
15:00:58 [Zakim]: + +41.22.749.aaaa
15:01:05 [Frans_ebu]: Frans_ebu has joined #tt
15:02:25 [Zakim]: +??P17
15:02:41 [tmichel]: zakim, ??P1 is me
15:02:41 [Zakim]: +tmichel; got it
15:03:07 [Zakim]: + +1.720.897.aabb
15:03:28 [glenn]: zakim, aabb is me
15:03:28 [Zakim]: +glenn; got it
15:04:06 [Zakim]: +pal
15:05:13 [nigel]: Regrets: Michael Dolan for first 30-60 minutes, Frans de Jong after first 30 minutes, Pierre-Anthony Lemieux after first 60 minutes
15:05:31 [nigel]: scribeNick: nigel
15:08:06 [nigel]: nigel: will be taking part in chairs training next week, choices are to proceed next week without me or to cancel and reconvene on 30th.
15:08:12 [nigel]: glenn: suggests cancelling on 23rd
15:08:23 [nigel]: nigel: okay let's do that.
15:10:09 [nigel]: agenda: Charter
15:10:51 [nigel]: topic: Charter
15:11:33 [nigel]: nigel: some licence drafting has been going on in the background, barring adverse comments expect to take new charter to AC following edits by plh, towards the end of this week.
15:12:06 [nigel]: topic: Profile Discrepancy
15:12:14 [nigel]: issue-162?
15:12:14 [trackbot]: issue-162 -- update standalone profile documents -- open
15:12:14 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/162
15:13:14 [nigel]: glenn: think we can close the issues.
15:14:01 [nigel]: ... There was a question about backward compatibility. My analysis showed that the previous versions were not up to date. If anyone used them then those implementations need to change anyway.
15:14:30 [nigel]: ... They were not compatible with what was published in the Rec. I'm happy with the new docs, which have been published.
15:15:04 [nigel]: nigel: Moved to Pending Review.
15:15:07 [nigel]: action-141?
15:15:07 [trackbot]: action-141 -- Nigel Megitt to Call for Action to identify discrepancies in TTML 1.0 on different profiles. -- due 2013-02-14 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:15:07 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/141
15:15:13 [nigel]: close action-141
15:15:13 [trackbot]: Closed action-141.
15:15:19 [nigel]: action-225?
15:15:19 [trackbot]: action-225 -- Glenn Adams to Work with plh to update standalone profile docs for ttml1se -- due 2013-10-31 -- OPEN
15:15:19 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/225
15:15:42 [nigel]: close action-225
15:15:42 [trackbot]: Closed action-225.
15:16:10 [nigel]: topic: Individual character rotation
15:16:16 [nigel]: issue-231?
15:16:16 [trackbot]: issue-231 -- Individual character rotation -- pending review
15:16:16 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/231
15:16:21 [Zakim]: +[Microsoft]
15:16:22 [pal]: pal has joined #tt
15:16:31 [jdsmith]: jdsmith has joined #tt
15:17:12 [plh]: plh has joined #tt
15:17:12 [nigel]: pal: The solution only affects horizontal glyphs with vertical layout. Are there any other circumstances in which characters may need to be rotated?
15:17:39 [nigel]: glenn: from the standpoint of normal writing, no, but for arbitrary graphics it might be wanted of coure, for artistic reasons.
15:17:57 [Zakim]: +Plh
15:18:06 [nigel]: ... It's not supported now by CSS though it is supported by SVG because SVG supports arbitrary angular rotation.
15:19:21 [nigel]: pal: it's possible to create custom fonts with rotated glyphs so this is okay.
15:19:34 [nigel]: ... I'm happy to close this.
15:19:46 [nigel]: close issue-231
15:19:46 [trackbot]: Closed issue-231.
15:19:58 [nigel]: close action-255
15:19:58 [trackbot]: Closed action-255.
15:20:11 [nigel]: topic: Definition of "closest"
15:20:17 [nigel]: issue-259?
15:20:17 [trackbot]: issue-259 -- Define "closest" -- pending review
15:20:17 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/259
15:21:33 [nigel]: pal: See comments on issue. Wording would be better to define in terms of distance from zero.
15:22:39 [nigel]: glenn: origin doesn't involve enclosure so rounding towards zero seemed more appropriate than for other attributes where making further from zero allows for more conservative spacing.
15:22:55 [nigel]: ... We don't want to make a discrepancy between TTML2 and TTML1 by changing the way this could work.
15:24:31 [nigel]: pal: Reference to euclidean distance may mean that this never gets implemented correctly.
15:25:12 [nigel]: ... CFF-TT has specific wording for rounding from percentages to pixels using 'round half up' terminology. So there's prior implementation that does it differently, independently of TTML1.
15:26:19 [nigel]: nigel: is this about the wording or the mathematics?
15:26:27 [nigel]: pal: no problem with the wording - it's about the mathematics.
15:26:56 [nigel]: glenn: there are 2 options in the issue, a and b. Is there any difference in b between the proposal and the existing solution?
15:27:03 [nigel]: pal: I think so. Take tts:fontSize for example.
15:27:31 [nigel]: http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml1/#style-attribute-fontSize
15:28:39 [nigel]: pal: Euclidean distance requires square root of the sum of the squares. If two have the same computational result then choose the one furthest from zero.
15:28:58 [nigel]: ... My suggestion is to round each dimension separately.
15:29:12 [nigel]: glenn: this is a corner case. Prefer to think about, say, padding.
15:29:32 [nigel]: http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml1/#style-attribute-padding
15:30:11 [nigel]: glenn: the difference between the two things? For padding they are the same, however distance is not otherwise defined. So I used Euclidean distance specifically.
15:30:41 [nigel]: pal: Imagine there's a computed value for padding that consists of 4 lengths - how would you compute the Euclidean distance between this value and the next closest - what would be the computation?
15:30:54 [nigel]: glenn: it would be on a component by component basis.
15:31:00 [nigel]: pal: I agree, so there's no difference.
15:31:19 [nigel]: glenn: the key is that this is already implied by the use of the term "computed" which is already resolved to the component level.
15:31:32 [nigel]: pal: Can we be clear about where "computed" means this?
15:32:00 [nigel]: glenn: The definition of CSS that we refer to defines this. We presume that you include the CSS etc definitions.
15:32:30 [nigel]: pal: I think we need to be clear about how many components are included in this Euclidean computation.
15:33:24 [nigel]: nigel: which values have multiple dimensions that are managed together?
15:33:31 [nigel]: ... is it only color?
15:33:50 [nigel]: pal: Euclidean distance can be applied to vector values as well as scalar values.
15:34:18 [nigel]: glenn: In the case of padding it is not a vector. For fontSize it would be considered a vector.
15:35:56 [nigel]: nigel: Aren't they two scalars?
15:37:59 [Zakim]: - +41.22.749.aaaa
15:38:07 [nigel]: glenn: In the case of scaling of bitmap fonts I definitely meant to do a vector comparison.
15:38:25 [nigel]: nigel: That could be inferred from the notation used but do we need to add wording to make it explicit?
15:39:30 [nigel]: glenn: As we've tried to become more precise it's become more complicated. Do we change TTML2 to be different from TTML1, or add an errata to TTML1? These are all informative notes at the moment.
15:39:40 [nigel]: ... We need to consider testing too.
15:40:14 [nigel]: pal: At least one reader did not have the same interpretation as the editor.
15:41:15 [nigel]: glenn: 2 issues - one is using Euclidean distance; the other is about origin in which you're suggesting changing the direction of rounding.
15:41:19 [nigel]: pal: yes.
15:42:21 [nigel]: glenn: It may be worth separating these into different issues. I'm more concerned about one than the other.
15:43:01 [nigel]: action pal to create a new issue to split these out for tracking.
15:43:02 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-257 - Create a new issue to split these out for tracking. [on Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2014-01-23].
15:44:00 [nigel]: glenn: if we put aside the issue of how distance is defined linguistically then on this issue of origin, what are our thoughts?
15:44:16 [nigel]: pal: I suggest deferring this issue until later and putting higher priority on bigger issues.
15:45:58 [nigel]: ... I can dig deeper into this and try to get some hard data regarding the implementations prior to TTML1SE.
15:46:52 [nigel]: nigel: Okay we can take this offline, but in the absence of further agreement we'll make no edits in TTML2
15:47:14 [nigel]: glenn: I'm happy to define what is meant by Euclidean distance a bit, i.e. in terms of component-wise or vector-wise comparison.
15:48:33 [nigel]: ... In terms of rounding of origin I think it's early enough to make a change now without impacting implementations now. We can add an errata and a note.
15:48:57 [nigel]: ... So we can solve both issues in a way that's not too complex to implement.
15:49:24 [pal]: sounds good
15:52:22 [glenn]: action: glenn to work with pal to resolve edits needed for issue-259 comments
15:52:22 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-258 - Work with pal to resolve edits needed for issue-259 comments [on Glenn Adams - due 2014-01-23].
15:52:43 [nigel]: topic: IMSC language support - code points, xml:lang etc
15:52:55 [nigel]: action-238
15:52:55 [trackbot]: action-238 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Follow up on issue-295 -- due 2013-12-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:52:55 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/238
15:54:05 [nigel]: issue-295?
15:54:05 [trackbot]: issue-295 -- Remove code point restrictions from IMSC -- open
15:54:05 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/295
15:55:17 [nigel]: pal: I have made the edits
15:55:30 [nigel]: nigel: Glenn are you happy with the updated wording?
15:56:07 [nigel]: pal: Annex B has been removed entirely and Annex A has been refactored to take into account CLDR. The wording has been changed to emphasise that this is a set of characters from which
15:56:17 [nigel]: authors are encouraged to choose depending on the language of the element.
15:56:26 [nigel]: s/authors/... authors
15:56:56 [nigel]: glenn: I still have some issues with table 2 because of its non-inclusive nature. It is a somewhat Euro-centric subset of languages.
15:57:15 [nigel]: pal: Remember this is a union of the CLDR sets, which still apply - it's an addition to them only.
15:57:24 [plh]: q+ to interrupt the current flow for a short time
15:57:28 [nigel]: glenn: The scope is worldwide.
15:58:22 [nigel]: plh: I did my action item on ATSC - please review. We can also close the action on the document licence.
15:58:52 [nigel]: ... I have updated the charter for the document licence, which only applies to WebVTT. I wanted to know where we are on action-88 on the media type.
15:59:02 [nigel]: ... If we don't conclude by Jan 30 there will be another long cycle.
15:59:23 [nigel]: glenn: I haven't added the errata yet but given this info on priority I'll pick it up this week.
15:59:34 [nigel]: plh: I did contact IANA to say we'll get back to them.
16:00:05 [nigel]: nigel: did you do the EBU wording?
16:00:08 [plh]: ACTION: plh to add EBU wording in charter
16:00:08 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-259 - Add ebu wording in charter [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2014-01-23].
16:00:09 [nigel]: plh: not yet.
16:00:57 [nigel]: pal: what's the process? Do we review it in the group before it goes to AC?
16:01:00 [plh]: http://www.w3.org/2013/10/timed-text-charter.html
16:01:12 [nigel]: plh: yes.
16:01:21 [nigel]: ... I can do a diff too if that's helpful.
16:02:00 [nigel]: plh: I will send diffs to the public group
16:02:29 [nigel]: nigel: what's the review process?
16:02:34 [nigel]: plh: I would say a week for this group.
16:03:07 [nigel]: plh: regrets from me for the 30th though I'll be on IRC if needed.
16:03:32 [Zakim]: -Plh
16:03:43 [nigel]: topic: back to CLDR
16:04:02 [nigel]: pal: Am happy to follow up with Glenn and understand the concerns.
16:04:34 [nigel]: glenn: My preference is to remove table 2 but otherwise to put a paragraph in showing that it's a subset of example character sets that are believed to apply to the specified set of languages.
16:05:02 [nigel]: ... To be exhaustive there would need to be citations for every language but right now there are no references to normative works.
16:05:16 [nigel]: ... That paragraph should also say that others may be added in the future.
16:05:22 [nigel]: pal: That sounds excellent.
16:05:40 [nigel]: glenn: I've noticed some issues elsewhere.
16:06:08 [nigel]: ... for example lineHeight.
16:07:42 [nigel]: nigel: proposes to close actions 238 and 243 and leave 244 pending
16:07:50 [nigel]: close action-238
16:07:50 [trackbot]: Closed action-238.
16:08:28 [nigel]: close action-243
16:08:28 [trackbot]: Closed action-243.
16:09:11 [nigel]: pal: needs to leave soon. any more for me?
16:09:16 [nigel]: nigel: action-252 overdue
16:09:18 [nigel]: action-252
16:09:18 [trackbot]: action-252 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Add an issue for tracking purposes to refactor imsc to conform to the content profile specification of ttml2 dependent on ttml2 profile updates. -- due 2013-12-19 -- OPEN
16:09:18 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/252
16:09:41 [nigel]: pal: this is dependent on ttml2 work. I'll do it when I can.
16:10:12 [nigel]: nigel: will extend the due date so it's not overdue, to 7th March.
16:10:23 [nigel]: nigel: have done that.
16:11:08 [nigel]: topic: Pending Review Actions
16:11:20 [nigel]: action-203?
16:11:20 [trackbot]: action-203 -- Glenn Adams to Investigate 708 border style mapping issues with mike's help -- due 2013-09-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:11:20 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/203
16:12:08 [nigel]: glenn: can't make progress with this as it stands due to lack of definition.
16:13:11 [nigel]: action-214?
16:13:12 [trackbot]: action-214 -- Glenn Adams to Review cp008 and consider reformulating the recently added <animate> support to better align -- due 2013-10-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:13:12 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/214
16:13:47 [jdsmith]: I've just marked https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/164 pending review as well.
16:14:04 [nigel]: glenn: we discussed this in detail in the f2f and I've implemented it. It has has a long review period.
16:16:25 [glenn]: http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal008
16:17:58 [nigel]: close action-214
16:17:58 [trackbot]: Closed action-214.
16:18:15 [nigel]: action-219?
16:18:15 [trackbot]: action-219 -- Glenn Adams to Change to rec in ttml2, and add note to authors indicating that if author wants specific value, then they should specify specific value -- due 2013-10-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:18:15 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/219
16:21:07 [Zakim]: -pal
16:22:24 [nigel]: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml2/spec/ttml2.html#style-attribute-lineHeight
16:24:31 [nigel]: glenn: the action as stated has been done.
16:25:44 [nigel]: nigel: there's still a question of whether it's possible to state a value as an alternative to the normal keyword's default 125% behaviour.
16:25:56 [nigel]: ... The lineHeight algorithm is now more explicit.
16:26:15 [nigel]: glenn: I haven't described that algorithm previously on this call.
16:26:46 [nigel]: ... [takes a couple of minutes to describe the algorithm to turn "normal" into a single computed parameter]
16:27:56 [nigel]: ... I reviewed blink, webkit and mozilla as to how they resolve "normal". They take the paragraph's nominal font, then look at Ascent, Descent and line Gap, then take the font size that applies and scale
16:28:28 [nigel]: ... the metrics accordingly. They add the three values together to give a computed lineHeight property when the original specified value is "normal". If those metrics are not available
16:28:40 [nigel]: ... then they use 125% of the fontSize that applied to that paragraph.
16:29:06 [nigel]: ... So at this level descendent spans with different font sizes would not apply.
16:29:31 [nigel]: ... and the 125% is only used if A, D and G are not available.
16:30:12 [nigel]: ... There's a separate process for inline elements than for block elements.
16:30:34 [nigel]: ... The lineHeight becomes a minimum value for the line box that will be used if there's nothing else in the line box that has a greater height.
16:31:12 [nigel]: ... However if there's an inline box that's a child of the linebox that has larger non-replaced text then the A and D will be used to increase the overall inline box's height.
16:31:30 [nigel]: ... And there's separate processing for padding and margin.
16:31:43 [nigel]: ... Note that when we introduce images we'll have replaced content that comes into effect in this algorithm.
16:32:47 [nigel]: jdsmith: are the new steps consistent with those browsers?
16:33:07 [nigel]: glenn: yes, this is based on my analysis of those three. I didn't analyse IE because I didn't have access to the source code.
16:33:18 [nigel]: ... Does MS use this algorithm?
16:33:28 [nigel]: jdsmith: Was there a different algorithm before?
16:33:59 [nigel]: glenn: We referred to CSS but that is ambiguous and defers to implementations without documenting properly.
16:34:15 [nigel]: ... Mozilla confirmed that this is what we meant but didn't write down in CSS.
16:35:11 [nigel]: nigel: do we need to formally communicate this to CSSWG?
16:35:31 [nigel]: glenn: yes we do. In the past we've had comments at Last Calls but should call this out specifically.
16:36:04 [nigel]: ... The formal time to do it is during LC. I can raise it there when we have consensus here on this language.
16:36:31 [nigel]: ... I'd like to make sure that at least pal has an input because he's written something different in IMSC.
16:37:23 [nigel]: action nigel to email group notifying of this change and initiating formal approval
16:37:23 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-260 - Email group notifying of this change and initiating formal approval [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-01-23].
16:38:02 [nigel]: action-221?
16:38:02 [trackbot]: action-221 -- Glenn Adams to Double check spec language on css and xsl-fo around line height stacking strategy -- due 2013-10-24 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:38:02 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/221
16:38:37 [nigel]: nigel: this seems to be related to the similar edits.
16:38:54 [nigel]: action-260: reference changes in both action-219 and action-221
16:38:54 [trackbot]: Notes added to action-260 Email group notifying of this change and initiating formal approval.
16:39:35 [nigel]: close action-219
16:39:35 [trackbot]: Closed action-219.
16:39:38 [nigel]: close action-221
16:39:38 [trackbot]: Closed action-221.
16:39:54 [nigel]: action-233?
16:39:54 [trackbot]: action-233 -- Glenn Adams to Reach out to CSS WG to understand potential mapping of multi-row-align to CSS -- due 2013-11-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:39:54 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/233
16:41:16 [nigel]: glenn: I queried this, got the answer to use flexbox and discovered that this is possible. I tested it on Chrome, Firefox and Opera and Safari - it only worked on more recent versions on Safari.
16:41:25 [nigel]: ... I assume IE will work too because it supports flexbox too.
16:41:29 [glenn]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Nov/0027.html
16:41:51 [nigel]: ... Jerry you might want to have a look at the attachments on this message including examples to try.
16:42:27 [nigel]: ... I will also send a screenshot of what it should look like.
16:42:36 [nigel]: close action-233
16:42:36 [trackbot]: Closed action-233.
16:42:59 [nigel]: action jerry and glenn to verify flexbox solution to multi row align using IE
16:42:59 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-261 - And glenn to verify flexbox solution to multi row align using ie [on Jerry Smith - due 2014-01-23].
16:43:36 [nigel]: action-261: this is a follow-up to action-233
16:43:36 [trackbot]: Notes added to action-261 And glenn to verify flexbox solution to multi row align using ie.
16:44:45 [nigel]: glenn: There's still an open question as to how we specify this in TTML2 - do we expose flexbox features directly or add some specific line alignment syntax
16:46:46 [nigel]: ... A new property is a shorthand for the use of the flexbox solution.
16:47:32 [nigel]: action nigel to update relevant change proposal to include row alignment requirement and potential CSS solution based on action-233 findings
16:47:33 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-262 - Update relevant change proposal to include row alignment requirement and potential css solution based on action-233 findings [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-01-23].
16:48:29 [nigel]: topic: Actions overdue
16:48:32 [nigel]: action-164?
16:48:32 [trackbot]: action-164 -- Jerry Smith to Investigate interop issues using CSS familyName constructs -- due 2013-12-05 -- PENDINGREVIEW
16:48:32 [trackbot]: http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/164
16:48:49 [nigel]: jdsmith: actually this is pending review
16:50:07 [nigel]: ... The view was that we should be aligning TTML with CSS. There's a short term convenience for tools if we don't put the CSS escape mechanism into the XML but it's cleaner to be aligned and to
16:50:17 [nigel]: ... use the CSS escapes.
16:50:45 [nigel]: ... On another call we said to use XML escapes?
16:51:27 [nigel]: glenn: whatever tool we use the XML escapes to apply, because we use XML. We don't use the stylesheets as syntactically defined by CSS, just the value syntax.
16:52:10 [nigel]: ... So the original use of these escapes came about because when you express a CSS stylesheet as a separate resource then you can use a backslash U notation.
16:52:20 [nigel]: ... Since we don't reference external stylesheets that was not an issue.
16:52:57 [nigel]: ... In TTML2 we're using something closer to XSL-FO and SVG for attribute value syntax in XML. If we introduce the escape mechanism in tokens based on CSS's escaping mechanism then we will end up
16:53:19 [nigel]: ... with 2 mechanisms: the XML one and the CSS one. There's redundancy there.
16:53:41 [nigel]: jdsmith: Yes, I prefer both.
16:54:04 [nigel]: glenn: This optimisation is in TTML1 as a constraint. In a future version of TTML1 we could widen that out to re-include the Unicode escapes.
16:54:32 [nigel]: ... We can certainly include in TTML2 because strict backward compatibility isn't required for this.
16:55:20 [nigel]: jdsmith: I will probably follow this up with a proposal for a change.
16:56:03 [nigel]: gerry: Spec-ready text is preferred. The Change Proposal should address interoperability with TTML1 re this issue as well, and discuss the co-concurrent features of XML numeric character references
16:56:10 [nigel]: s/gerry/glenn
16:56:42 [nigel]: ... Should maybe define this in terms of where in the process this happens.
16:57:17 [nigel]: topic: Change Proposals
16:58:06 [nigel]: http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/ChangeProposalIndex
16:59:28 [nigel]: glenn: the 'index' doesn't actually have an index - it would be good to edit this to make a true index.
16:59:49 [nigel]: action nigel to tidy change proposal index page to include an index
16:59:49 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-263 - Tidy change proposal index page to include an index [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-01-23].
17:00:37 [nigel]: action-263: glenn suggests listing a table with each change proposal by number with different columns, with status, package etc.
17:00:37 [trackbot]: Notes added to action-263 Tidy change proposal index page to include an index.
17:01:22 [nigel]: action nigel ensure all P1 and P2 issues not closed belong in a change proposal
17:01:22 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-264 - Ensure all p1 and p2 issues not closed belong in a change proposal [on Nigel Megitt - due 2014-01-23].
17:02:20 [Zakim]: -glenn
17:02:29 [Zakim]: -[Microsoft]
17:02:32 [Zakim]: -nigel
17:04:12 [nigel]: rrsagent, generate minutes
17:04:12 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/16-tt-minutes.html nigel
17:07:33 [Zakim]: disconnecting the lone participant, tmichel, in SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM
17:07:34 [Zakim]: SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended
17:07:34 [Zakim]: Attendees were nigel, +41.22.749.aaaa, tmichel, +1.720.897.aabb, glenn, pal, [Microsoft], Plh
17:11:14 [plh]: plh has left #tt
17:12:03 [nigel]: Present: nigel, glenn, tmichel, plh, pal, jdsmith, frans_ebu
17:12:07 [nigel]: Chair: nigel
17:12:10 [nigel]: rrsagent, generate minutes
17:12:10 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/16-tt-minutes.html nigel
18:09:42 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #tt
20:45:52 [glenn]: glenn has joined #tt