15:49:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
15:49:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/14-wai-wcag-irc
15:50:26 <AWK> RRSAgent, start meeting
15:50:26 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'start meeting', AWK.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:50:48 <AWK> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
15:50:59 <AWK> meeting: WCAG Working Group Teleconference
15:51:00 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
15:51:07 <AWK> Chair: AWK
15:51:19 <AWK> Zakim, agneda?
15:51:19 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, AWK.
15:51:23 <AWK> Zakim, agenda?
15:51:23 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
15:51:24 <Zakim> 5. Discussion of Evaluation Methodology Note and approval for publication of working draft https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20131126EM_Review/ [from AWK]
15:51:24 <Zakim> 7. Approval of techniques and understanding documents for public review https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/techunderstandpublic/ [from AWK__]
15:52:00 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
15:53:00 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
15:54:00 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
15:54:39 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
15:55:20 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
15:55:27 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:55:30 <Joshue108> zakim, this will be WCAG
15:55:30 <Zakim> ok, Joshue108, I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM already started
15:55:46 <Joshue108> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
15:55:46 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
15:56:54 <Joshue108> Chair: Joshue
15:56:58 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
15:57:47 <Joshue108> agenda + CSUN
15:57:59 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda
15:58:01 <Zakim> I don't understand 'agenda', Joshue108
15:58:04 <Joshue108> zakim, show agenda
15:58:04 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
15:58:05 <Zakim> 5. Discussion of Evaluation Methodology Note and approval for publication of working draft https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20131126EM_Review/ [from AWK]
15:58:05 <Zakim> 7. Approval of techniques and understanding documents for public review https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/techunderstandpublic/ [from AWK__]
15:58:05 <Zakim> 8. CSUN [from Joshue108]
15:58:10 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
15:58:12 <shadi> shadi has joined #wai-wcag
15:59:27 <Zakim> +Shadi
15:59:30 <Zakim> +AWK
15:59:31 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
15:59:55 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:59:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see Joshue, Shadi, AWK
16:00:34 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
16:00:42 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
16:01:00 <michel> michel has joined #wai-wcag
16:01:02 <Joshue108> zakim, drop item 8
16:01:03 <Zakim> agendum 8, CSUN, dropped
16:01:05 <shadi> zakim, mute me
16:01:05 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
16:01:35 <Zakim> +Michel_Fitos
16:02:02 <Zakim> +Kathy_Wahlbin
16:02:28 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
16:03:11 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
16:03:12 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
16:03:27 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:03:40 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
16:04:13 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #WAI-WCAG
16:04:40 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #wai-wcag
16:04:57 <AWK> Scribe:Katie
16:05:00 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:05:13 <Loretta> zakim, ipcaller is Loretta
16:05:13 <Zakim> +Loretta; got it
16:05:25 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item 2
16:05:25 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Continue ARIA Techniques review - only #4 and #6 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20131126ARIA_Techniques/" taken up [from AWK]
16:05:27 <Zakim> +??P33
16:05:37 <Zakim> -??P33
16:05:47 <shadi> q+
16:05:51 <shadi> ack me
16:05:55 <Zakim> +??P33
16:05:55 <Joshue108> ack shadi
16:05:57 <Zakim> -??P33
16:06:09 <Ryladog> Joshue: We are going to have a F2F at CSUN
16:06:26 <Zakim> +??P33
16:06:42 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P33 is Michael_Cooper
16:06:42 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper; got it
16:06:45 <Ryladog> Shadi: Are you looking at Tuesday, WCAG-EM is looking to have one on Mon and Tues. Maybe we can coorinate
16:06:47 <shadi> zakim, mute me
16:06:47 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
16:07:02 <Ryladog> Joshue: ok
16:07:23 <MichaelC> agenda?
16:07:41 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item 5
16:07:41 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Discussion of Evaluation Methodology Note and approval for publication of working draft https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20131126EM_Review/" taken up [from AWK]
16:07:42 <MichaelC> agenda order 7, 5
16:07:53 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item 7
16:07:53 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Approval of techniques and understanding documents for public review https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/techunderstandpublic/" taken up [from AWK__]
16:08:03 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/techunderstandpublic/results
16:08:07 <Ryladog> Chair: Andrew/Joshue
16:09:15 <Ryladog> ScribeNick: Ryladog
16:09:16 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2014/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20140107/
16:09:33 <Ryladog> AK: I responded to most of thecomments
16:12:34 <Ryladog> s/coorinate/coordinate/
16:12:45 <Joshue108> s/thecomments/the comments
16:12:54 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
16:12:54 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:14:50 <Ryladog> AK: ARIA 10, this your comment is how do we come to consensus.....we did discuss and approved on Dec 10th.....what do people think about it?
16:15:20 <Joshue108> +q
16:15:20 <Loretta> q+
16:15:48 <Ryladog> DM: My concern is F65 and ARIA 10 - this sounds cyclical - I think we need to fix one or the other. Maybe we should discuss at F2F
16:15:58 <Joshue108> ack me
16:16:09 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:16:13 <kerstin_> kerstin_ has joined #wai-wcag
16:16:22 <Ryladog> JO: I think we do need to talk about it.
16:16:22 <kerstin_> zakim, ipcaller is me
16:16:22 <Zakim> +kerstin_; got it
16:16:29 <kerstin_> zakim, mute me
16:16:29 <Zakim> kerstin_ should now be muted
16:16:40 <kerstin_> sorry for delay
16:17:03 <Ryladog> JO: Michael can we suspend this until we have time to talk about it?
16:17:21 <Joshue108> ack lor
16:17:46 <Joshue108> +q
16:17:47 <AWK> ack loretta
16:17:52 <Ryladog> AK: If we are looking to publish today - that could be a problem
16:18:00 <Joshue108> ack me
16:18:40 <Ryladog> LGR: We can still publish today and add a NOTE to the draft - identifying that we are still working on this one issue
16:19:03 <Ryladog> LGR; Reasonable?
16:19:08 <Ryladog> MC: Yes
16:19:24 <MichaelC> q+
16:19:43 <AWK> ack michael
16:19:46 <Joshue108> ack Michae
16:20:26 <Ryladog> MC; Suggest in STATUS provide list of things we are working on. And add and ED NOTE describe the issue
16:20:43 <Ryladog> JO: That sounds good
16:21:51 <Ryladog> rrsagent, make minutes
16:21:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/14-wai-wcag-minutes.html Ryladog
16:22:05 <Ryladog> rrsagent, make log public
16:22:31 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
16:22:31 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:23:12 <Ryladog> q+
16:23:58 <AWK> q+
16:24:52 <Joshue108> ack Ryla
16:24:55 <MichaelC> zakim, mute me
16:24:55 <Zakim> Michael_Cooper should now be muted
16:25:18 <Joshue108> ack AW
16:25:36 <Joshue108> +1 to AWK
16:26:24 <Ryladog> AK: I want to speak to Davids suggestion, I think we want commentors to address this document - not F65 - we never approved F65
16:29:13 <Ryladog> Present: Joshue O., David M., Kathy, Katie, Andrew K., Shadi, Kerstin, Michael C., Loretta GR, Marc J.
16:31:04 <Ryladog> AK: Does anyone object to adding tabindex -1?
16:32:01 <Ryladog> LGR: You need identify that tabindex -1 works for IE
16:32:42 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
16:32:42 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:33:30 <Ryladog> DM: So often I see developers copy code - thinking that they have fixed it. My other concernis the ID - you are not supposed to start and ID with a number
16:33:46 <Ryladog> AWK: We are no clear on that
16:34:10 <Ryladog> AWK: It is L1 and L2 - I think it was L just for label
16:34:21 <Ryladog> LGR: This should be easy to fix
16:35:27 <Joshue108> KHS: A major selling point of WCAG is that we allow for the updating of techs and our docs - this is important to identify.
16:36:09 <Joshue108> +q
16:36:33 <Joshue108> ack me
16:36:34 <Loretta> q+
16:36:38 <AWK> how about: WCAG 2.0 guidelines and success criteria are designed to be broadly applicable to current and future web technologies, including dynamic applications, mobile, digital television, etc. They are stable and do not change.  Specific guidance for authors and evaluators on meeting the WCAG success criteria is provided in techniques, which include code examples, resources, and tests. W3C's Techniques for WCAG 2.0 document is updated periodically, about once a ye
16:36:39 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
16:36:53 <AWK> to cover more current best practices and changes in technologies and tools.
16:37:11 <AWK> q+
16:37:12 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
16:37:13 <Zakim> I see Loretta, AWK on the speaker queue
16:37:17 <Joshue108> ack Loretta
16:38:36 <Joshue108> re: AWK, its good. How about WCAG 2.0 guidelines and success criteria are designed to be broadly applicable to current and future web technologies, including dynamic applications, mobile, digital television, etc. They are stable and do not change.  However, specific guidance for authors and evaluators on meeting the WCAG success criteria is provided in regularily updated techniques, which include code examples, resources, and tests.
16:38:47 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
16:38:47 <Zakim> I see AWK on the speaker queue
16:39:02 <Joshue108> ack awk
16:39:37 <Zakim> +EricP
16:40:13 <Joshue108> +q
16:40:19 <wuwei> zakim, EricP is wuwei
16:40:19 <Zakim> +wuwei; got it
16:40:31 <wuwei> zakim, mute me
16:40:31 <Zakim> wuwei should now be muted
16:40:51 <Joshue108> ack me
16:41:54 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
16:41:54 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:42:04 <kerstin_> zakim, unmute me
16:42:04 <Zakim> kerstin_ should no longer be muted
16:43:12 <Ryladog> KHS: No it should not block publication - but I would like to ensure that the RATIONALE/REASON the Techniques and Understanding are non-normative and updatable to avoid being a rapidly outdated standard
16:43:38 <Ryladog> LGR: My comments were mostly about the itengrity of the documents
16:43:50 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2014/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20140107/F24.html
16:44:09 <Ryladog> AWK: Yes, we were also concerned about that, and took some action, and learned a lot
16:45:02 <Ryladog> Kerstin: We could make an editor note
16:45:18 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
16:45:18 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:45:22 <Ryladog> AWK: We want the WG to discuss this before we add it as a note
16:45:22 <Joshue108> +q
16:45:32 <Joshue108> ack me
16:46:05 <Ryladog> JO: I agree with what Andrew is saying before we send it out
16:46:15 <Ryladog> Kerstin: Yes I am OK with this
16:49:00 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
16:49:00 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:49:21 <Ryladog> rrsagent, make minutes
16:49:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/14-wai-wcag-minutes.html Ryladog
16:50:39 <kerstin_> zakim, mute me
16:50:39 <Zakim> kerstin_ should now be muted
16:50:57 <MichaelC> ack me
16:51:03 <Ryladog> MJ: I cannot view the Intro text on the Quickref page - and it is also not displaying any of my choices for techniques
16:51:11 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/quickref/20140107/Overview.php?introopt=Y
16:51:19 <marcjohlic> http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/quickref/20140107/Overview.php
16:51:54 <David> +1 here
16:52:17 <Ryladog> MC: Yes I see that, I will look into that
16:52:47 <Ryladog> JO: Will you be able to fix that on the call?
16:52:53 <Ryladog> MC: Probably not
16:53:19 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
16:54:27 <Ryladog> RESOLUTION: Group has Approval of Techniques and Understanding documents for Public Review - provided the QuickRef document fix and Comment about ARIA 10
16:55:02 <AWK> brb
16:55:23 <Ryladog> DM: I can suggest text for ARIA 10 - will do with Loretta right now
16:55:38 <Ryladog> zakim, next item
16:55:38 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Discussion of Evaluation Methodology Note and approval for publication of working draft https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20131126EM_Review/" taken up [from AWK]
16:55:48 <shadi> ack me
16:56:49 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20131129
16:56:55 <Ryladog> Shadi: This is from the previous edotor draft
16:57:08 <Joshue108> s/edotor/editors
16:57:20 <Ryladog> Shadi: We asked ERT, WCAG and EO to review
16:58:00 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
16:58:09 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
16:58:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/14-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:58:18 <Ryladog> Shadi: we ended up with over 100 comments we have proposed resolutions. There are a coupe of open ones that I wouldlike to go over. We want to Publish as a working group draft
16:58:27 <Loretta> THe Working Group is still discussing whether it is appropriate to use various aria attributes to provide a text alternative for an image without providing an alt attribute. Example XX demonstrates a situation where it might be desirable just to use aria-abelledby, with no alt attribute. We solicit feedback on this example and on the general issue.
16:58:46 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20131129#comment18
16:58:51 <Joshue108> Nice Loretta!
16:59:09 <Loretta> (Need David's input...)
16:59:24 <Ryladog> Shadi: Comment 18: Core Functionality
16:59:54 <Joshue108> Should we say something like "still discussing the wider issue of new methods to provide text alternatives[...]" or similar?
17:00:02 <shadi> "Essential Functionality"
17:01:03 <Ryladog> Shadi: We felt that Greggs terminology might not be understood - so we suggest to call it Essential Functionality, Is that OK?
17:01:43 <Ryladog> Shadi: The definition will remain the same as it is now.
17:02:16 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
17:02:18 <Ryladog> Shadi: There have been several suggestions
17:04:05 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
17:04:05 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
17:04:10 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20131129#comment26
17:04:53 <David> I would add to lorretta: THe Working Group is still discussing whether it is appropriate to use various aria attributes to provide a text alternative for an image without providing an alt attribute (i.e. by amending F65). Example XX demonstrates a situation where it might be desirable just to use aria-abelledby, with no alt attribute. We solicit feedback on this example and on the general issue.
17:05:56 <Loretta> Sounds good to me, David.
17:06:00 <Joshue108> I'm wondering if we should refer to the issue of 'alternatives to traditional ways of providing alternate text' - ARIA is one of those ways.
17:06:29 <Joshue108> THe Working Group is still discussing whether it is appropriate to only use various aria attributes, in some use cases, to provide a text alternative for an image without providing an alt attribute.
17:06:39 <Ryladog>  Present: Joshue O Connor., David MacDonald, Kathy, Katie Haritos-Shea, Andrew Kirkpatrick, Shadi, Kerstin Probiesch, Michael Cooper, Loretta Guarino Reid, Marc J., James N., wuwei
17:07:17 <David> Andrew can you add the <ednote>?
17:07:21 <Loretta> I think David's version is easier to understand.
17:07:43 <Joshue108> Ok. I does mention F65 tho..
17:07:55 <Ryladog> Shadi: Comment 26: We are suggesting not to use Gregg's but to use what we have
17:08:14 <Ryladog> Shadi: Are there any objections
17:08:24 <shadi> [[W3C/WAI provides a set of publicly documented (non-normative) Techniques for WCAG 2.0 that help evaluate conformance to WCAG 2.0 Success Criteria. However, it is not necessary to use these particular techniques (see Understanding Techniques for WCAG Success Criteria). Some evaluators might use other methods (inline with the requirements for custom techniques) to evaluate conformance to WCAG 2.0. W3C/WAI provides a set of publicly documented (non-normative) Te
17:08:24 <shadi> chniques for WCAG 2.0 that help evaluate conformance to WCAG 2.0 Success Criteria.]]
17:08:33 <kerstin_> zakim, unmute me
17:08:33 <Zakim> kerstin_ should no longer be muted
17:10:09 <Joshue108> Should we call ARIA attributes, in this context, supporting text alternatives?
17:10:30 <kerstin_> q+
17:10:30 <Joshue108> That could be problematic on second thoughts..
17:10:38 <Loretta> q+
17:12:30 <kerstin_> zakim, unmute me
17:12:30 <Zakim> kerstin_ was not muted, kerstin_
17:12:48 <Ryladog> DM: You need to be conformant to SC not techniques
17:13:08 <Joshue108> ack kers
17:13:19 <Ryladog> Shadi: We say nowhere to evaluate conformance with Techniques
17:13:51 <Ryladog> Kerstin: I do not agree - I would agree with publishing at a working draft
17:14:18 <Ryladog> Shadi: What is the issue? What do you see?
17:14:20 <Joshue108> ack Loretta
17:14:32 <kerstin_> zakim, mute me
17:14:32 <Zakim> kerstin_ should now be muted
17:15:06 <Joshue108> rrsagent, make minutes
17:15:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/14-wai-wcag-minutes.html Joshue108
17:15:13 <Ryladog> LGR: All of the WCAG documents is meant for a variety of audiences - the techniques are not limited to developers
17:15:33 <Ryladog> +1 to LGR
17:16:21 <Ryladog> Shadi: All we are saying that Techniques *can* help in evaluating conformance to WCAG 2 SC
17:16:39 <Ryladog> Shadi: Maybe we can allow more time
17:16:53 <Ryladog> I have no problem with Publication
17:18:45 <Ryladog> DM: The two key issues for me are fairly important. One on Comment 37: I see therational fornot changing it. The wording I proposed that it is important have PWD to be used, but I think it is going to be less of anevaluationif a PWD is not always included
17:19:34 <Ryladog> DM: I think most evaluators can discover most relevant issues
17:19:39 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
17:20:05 <Ryladog> Shadi: This language has been there from the beginning
17:20:56 <Ryladog> JO: Can you live with this as is?
17:21:01 <Ryladog> DM: Yes
17:21:32 <Ryladog> DM: What about a specific size?
17:22:01 <Ryladog> Shadi: We think that what we have proposed is best and more consistant
17:22:33 <Ryladog> Shadi: We also run into issues with a fixed number of pages
17:23:39 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
17:23:44 <Joshue108> +q
17:23:58 <kerstin_> zakim, unmute me
17:23:58 <Zakim> kerstin_ should no longer be muted
17:24:39 <Ryladog> DM: Just provide some guidance
17:24:51 <Ryladog> Shadi: We hope to do that in the next draft
17:25:00 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
17:25:07 <Joshue108> ack me
17:25:39 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
17:25:49 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20131129#comment43
17:25:52 <Ryladog> Shadi: Comment 43: Relates to Scoring - this is strongly disputed
17:26:33 <Ryladog> Shadi: Developing a ratio as a ballpark figure - not comparing one site with another - but rather a site against itself
17:26:39 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
17:27:35 <kerstin_> q+
17:27:39 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
17:27:42 <Ryladog> Shadi: One issue is that we call it scoring - but really it is a ratio to get a rough idea. One idea is to keep that section, another is to drop that section for this draft
17:27:42 <Joshue108> ack kers
17:27:53 <David> q+
17:28:20 <Joshue108> ack david
17:28:39 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #wai-wcag
17:28:41 <Ryladog> Kerstin: I think scoring is useful - is there prudent data - when it comes to conformance - I would really like to drop the Scoring for WCAG EM
17:28:56 <Joshue108> +q
17:29:48 <Ryladog> DM: The government of Canada was really hoping to see this document covering Scoring - everybody wants it - bu tI am not sure that it is realistic
17:30:05 <kerstin_> Ryladog: I've said that, that I don't think that scoring is useful. And that there are no proven data for the reliabiility of the suggested scoring system. Therefore I would like to see droping the section
17:30:12 <Ryladog> Shadi: Maybe we can extend the comments to the end of the week?
17:30:53 <Ryladog> JO: I would rather us reviewing it this week and addressing it on next weeks call - as the Scoring?Metrics is a very big issue
17:31:08 <shadi> zakim, mute me
17:31:08 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
17:31:12 <Ryladog> s/?//
17:31:22 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
17:31:22 <Zakim> I see Joshue on the speaker queue
17:31:24 <Joshue108> ack me
17:31:39 <Ryladog> JO: Please put you suggested text for ARIA 10 here now?
17:32:06 <Ryladog> rrsagent, make minutes
17:32:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/14-wai-wcag-minutes.html Ryladog
17:32:36 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
17:32:44 <kerstin_> Ryladog, could please correct my comment on scoring?
17:32:55 <David> I would add to lorretta: THe Working Group is still discussing whether it is appropriate to use various aria attributes to provide a text alternative for an image without providing an alt attribute (i.e. by amending F65). Example XX demonstrates a situation where it might be desirable just to use aria-abelledby, with no alt attribute. We solicit feedback on this example and on the general issue.
17:33:25 <Ryladog> Kerstin, please put in the text you want and I will be happy to
17:34:27 <kerstin_> I don't think that scoring is useful. There are no proven data for the reliabiility of the suggested scoring system in WCAG-EM. Therefore I would like to see dropping the section on scoring
17:35:24 <David> THe Working Group is still discussing whether it is appropriate to use various aria attributes to provide a text alternative for an image without providing an alt attribute (i.e. we are also discussing F65 in this context). Example XX demonstrates a situation where it might be desirable just to use aria-abelledby, with no alt attribute. We solicit feedback on this example and on the general issue.
17:35:32 <Ryladog> s/Kerstin: I think scoring is useful - is there prudent data - when it comes to conformance - I would really like to drop the Scoring for WCAG EM/Kerstin: I don't think that scoring is useful. There are no proven data for the reliabiility of the suggested scoring system in WCAG-EM. Therefore I would like to see dropping the section on scoring/
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17:36:11 <David> id	THe Working Group is still discussing whether it is appropriate to use various aria attributes to provide text alternatives for an image without providing an alt attribute (i.e. we are also discussing F65 in this context). Example XX demonstrates a situation where it might be desirable just to use aria-abelledby, with no alt attribute. We solicit feedback on this example and on the...
17:36:13 <David> ...general issue.
17:36:31 <Joshue108> THe Working Group is still discussing whether it is appropriate to use various aria attributes to provide a text alternative for an image without providing an alt attribute (i.e. we are also discussing F65 in this context). Example XX demonstrates a situation where it might be desirable just to use aria-abelledby, with no alt attribute. We solicit feedback on this example and on the general issue.
17:36:32 <David> id	THe Working Group is still discussing whether it is appropriate to use various aria attributes to provide a text alternative for an image without providing an alt attribute (i.e. we are also discussing F65 in this context). Example XX demonstrates a situation where it might be desirable just to use aria-abelledby, with no alt attribute. We solicit feedback on this example and on the...
17:36:34 <David> ...general issue.
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17:36:57 <AWK> The Working Group is still discussing whether it is appropriate to use various aria attributes to provide a text alternative for an image without providing an alt attribute. <loch ref=”ARIA10”> ARIA10: Using aria-labelledby to provide a text alternative for non-text content</loc> is included to invite public comment and help the working group come to a conclusion about this technique as well as related items (e.g. F65).
17:37:05 <AWK> Examples within ARIA10 demonstrate situations where it might be desirable just to use aria-labelledby with no alt attribute. We solicit feedback on this example and on the general issue.
17:37:26 <kerstin_> thx @ryladog
17:37:39 <Ryladog> * you bet!
17:38:21 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
17:38:21 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
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17:38:40 <kerstin_> zakim, mute me
17:38:40 <Zakim> kerstin_ should now be muted
17:38:49 <Ryladog> q+
17:39:10 <Joshue108> ack Ryla
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17:39:51 <Zakim> -wuwei
17:40:29 <Ryladog> DM:Should we include HTML 5?
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17:40:42 <Ryladog> JO: I think we will leave HTML 5 out for now
17:41:31 <Ryladog> JO; This is really going to blow up.
17:41:35 <Ryladog> Bring it on
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17:41:45 <Ryladog> DM: The F@F wille fantastic
17:41:54 <Joshue108> +1 to AWK text
17:41:55 <Kathy> +1
17:41:56 <kerstin_> +1 also
17:42:02 <Ryladog> s/wille/well be/
17:42:12 <AWK> gotta go, thx bye
17:42:19 <Zakim> -AWK
17:42:39 <kerstin_> bye
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17:42:40 <Zakim> -Joshue
17:42:41 <Zakim> -Kathy_Wahlbin
17:42:42 <Zakim> -Shadi
17:42:44 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
17:42:44 <Zakim> -kerstin_
17:42:46 <Zakim> -Michel_Fitos
17:42:48 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
17:42:51 <Zakim> -Loretta
17:42:52 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
17:43:01 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
17:43:02 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has ended
17:43:02 <Zakim> Attendees were Joshue, Shadi, AWK, Michel_Fitos, Kathy_Wahlbin, David_MacDonald, Marc_Johlic, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Loretta, Michael_Cooper, kerstin_, wuwei, James_Nurthen
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17:45:21 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
17:45:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/14-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
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17:49:02 <MichaelC> rrsagent, bye
17:49:02 <RRSAgent> I see no action items