15:53:51 RRSAgent has joined #html-media
15:53:51 logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/14-html-media-irc
15:53:53 RRSAgent, make logs public
15:53:53 Zakim has joined #html-media
15:53:55 Zakim, this will be 63342
15:53:55 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
15:53:56 Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
15:53:56 Date: 14 January 2014
15:56:20 ddorwin has joined #html-media
15:56:38 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Jan/0020.html
15:56:57 HTML_WG()11:00AM has now started
15:57:04 +[Microsoft]
15:57:14 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
15:57:14 +paulc; got it
15:59:44 johnsim has joined #html-media
15:59:47 joesteele has joined #html-media
15:59:52 +ddorwin
16:00:52 +AWK
16:01:13 Zakim, AWK is me
16:01:13 +joesteele; got it
16:01:14 +[Microsoft]
16:01:37 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Jan/0020.html
16:01:41 zakim, who is on the phone?
16:01:41 On the phone I see paulc, ddorwin, joesteele, [Microsoft]
16:01:52 davide has joined #html-media
16:01:59 zakim, [microsoft] is me
16:01:59 +johnsim; got it
16:02:14 BVobLund has joined #html-media
16:02:39 +davide
16:02:47 BobLund has joined #html-media
16:03:06 Scribe: joesteele
16:03:14 ScribeNick: joesteele
16:03:17 Chair: paulc
16:04:16 +BobLund
16:04:17 pal has joined #html-media
16:05:15 Topic: Role Call
16:05:19 zakim, who is on the phone?
16:05:19 On the phone I see paulc, ddorwin, joesteele, johnsim, davide, BobLund
16:05:21 Zakim, who is here?
16:05:21 On the phone I see paulc, ddorwin, joesteele, johnsim, davide, BobLund
16:05:22 On IRC I see pal, BobLund, davide, joesteele, johnsim, ddorwin, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, wseltzer, trackbot
16:05:32 +pal
16:05:39 Topic: Review Action Items
16:05:50 ACTIO-48?
16:05:53 ACTION-48?
16:05:53 ACTION-48 -- Adrian Bateman to Draft a proposal for bug 17673 -- due 2014-01-21 -- OPEN
16:05:53 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/48
16:06:05 paulc: still pending
16:06:14 ACTION-51?
16:06:14 ACTION-51 -- Jerry Smith to Write a proposal for bug 18515 -- due 2014-01-14 -- OPEN
16:06:14 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/51
16:06:36 paulc: Jerry is not here, reported they were working on it last week
16:06:42 ... checking the bug
16:06:47 ... no updates
16:06:59 ... skipping other actions as no changes
16:06:59 pladd has joined #html-media
16:07:04 Topic: MSE status
16:07:14 CR draft was published: http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/CR-media-source-20140109/
16:07:24 +[Microsoft]
16:07:34 paulc: now need to build a test suite for MSE -- looking for volunteers
16:07:39 adrianba has joined #html-media
16:07:45 zakim, who is on the phone?
16:07:45 On the phone I see paulc, ddorwin, joesteele, johnsim, davide, BobLund, pal, [Microsoft]
16:07:47 ... either to contribute tests or gther them togethers
16:07:48 zakim, [Microsoft] is me
16:07:48 +adrianba; got it
16:07:54 ... might start an email thread on that
16:08:07 ACTION-48?
16:08:07 ACTION-48 -- Adrian Bateman to Draft a proposal for bug 17673 -- due 2014-01-21 -- OPEN
16:08:07 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/48
16:08:20 paulc: Adrian -- ACTION 48 and ACTION 51? still pending
16:08:37 adrianba: long proposal did not make it into bug -- hours away
16:08:51 paulc: keep no the agenda for next week then
16:08:55 Topic: EME status and bugs
16:09:00 ACTION-51 due next week
16:09:00 Set ACTION-51 Write a proposal for bug 18515 due date to 2014-01-20.
16:09:03 paulc: 17 bugs outstanding
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16:09:24 +[Microsoft]
16:09:27 ... sent an email about heartbeat
16:09:30 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Jan/0010.html
16:09:47 ... David responded, charis are building a heartbeat plan now
16:10:16 ... looks like HTML5.1, polyglot, Ruby spec, HTML5->HTML4 diffs doc
16:10:22 ... possibly DOM4 doc as well
16:10:32 s/charis/chairs/
16:10:46 ... want to publish Canvas docs as well but may be on diff schedule
16:10:52 ... like to make progress this week
16:11:07 ... next week evaluate how far down the list of heartbeat bugs we are
16:11:35 David's proposed bug list to do before a heartbeat: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Jan/0015.html
16:11:50 Topic: New or Reopned EME bugs
16:11:57 paulc: 6 items on the list
16:12:05 s/Reopned/Reopened/
16:12:15 subtopic: bug#24227
16:12:24 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24227
16:12:31 sounds like a good idea
16:13:08 ddorwin: when we added closed, realized it existed on other elements, don't expect objections
16:13:12 paulc: any other comments?
16:13:21 ... no dissent
16:13:35 subtopic: bug#24216
16:13:39 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24216
16:13:53 paulc: not seen any responses to this one
16:14:33 jerry said he was going to take a look - still in our queue i think
16:14:42 paulc: David started an email thread -- no resposnes yet
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16:14:56 subtopic: bug#24270
16:15:01 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24270
16:15:07 q+
16:15:11 ddorwin: entire section in non-normative
16:15:19 ack adrian
16:15:21 s/in non-/is non-/
16:15:57 adrianba: from memory the intention is that table itself and desc. is not normative because the description of where they are used is normative.
16:16:06 ... any difference means algorithm should win out
16:16:28 ddorwin: please add your comments
16:16:51 paulc: do we have any statements to that effect in the doc we can borrow?
16:17:05 adrianba: I will look and find an example
16:17:21 paulc: so Adrian is on point for that
16:17:39 Topic: Email threads
16:17:44 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Jan/0008.html
16:17:48 subtopic: Are codecs allowed?
16:18:03 paulc: question from David -- does this require more discussion?
16:18:18 ddorwin: no definitive answer yet, some pushback on using simple string
16:18:35 ... trying to fogure out how to specify that this should be type and subtype - like video/mp4
16:18:41 s/fogure/figure/
16:18:51 ... was going for simple string matching
16:19:05 q+
16:19:07 ... one option to always use video
16:19:19 ... David Singer had a comment on that
16:19:28 ... need to figure out what the regex looks like
16:19:33 ack adrian
16:19:41 adrianba: not sure what we are simplifying here
16:19:59 ... either an implementation can be lax and say yeah that is supported
16:20:08 ... don't actually know till you try to play it
16:20:26 ... not sure whether you can say yes or know based on codecs
16:20:34 s/or know/or no/
16:20:45 ... not sure what we gain by trying to simplify
16:21:02 ddorwin: not related to type supported -- related to how to interpet the initData
16:21:19 ... which of the container guidelines to follow -- essentially an enum
16:21:37 adrianba: don't you just pass from needKey?
16:21:59 ddorwin: that is one option, pass from applications, in theory you should know whether you can handle the initData
16:22:04 q+
16:22:15 s/intepret/interpret/
16:22:28 ddorwin: maybe can just go with simple type/subtype
16:22:36 ack pal
16:23:05 pal: heard the mime-type is intended to flag the specific init type that was parsed from container
16:23:12 ddorwin: yes
16:23:31 pal: specification tells you how to create the initData based on the underlying content
16:23:41 q+
16:23:41 ddorwin: tells you what it is like for the container
16:24:03 pal: that list could grow, could have multiple items per container, shouldn't that list have an identifier
16:24:17 ddorwin: that was in my initial proposal
16:24:34 ack adr
16:24:53 adrianba: I think I am making the same point as pal
16:25:16 ... the type information we get in needKey and pass in to createSession is a description of the initData format
16:25:24 s/in to/into/
16:25:45 ... the way you interpret the data is based on the container format
16:26:02 q+
16:26:08 ... from scanning the thread was not obvious what we were talking about
16:26:15 ack pal
16:26:18 q+
16:26:45 pal: to confirm - today based on the spec the only two types of initData you can get back are those described in section 1 and 2?
16:26:52 q+
16:27:00 ... so then not tied to the container rather tied to 8.1 and 8.2
16:27:16 ack dd
16:27:20 ... if we defined other mappings in the future we can define more mappings
16:28:01 ddorwin: this could potentially solve the ISOMFF versus CENC issue
16:28:01 ack adrian
16:28:01 ... we could define as common mime-type
16:29:13 adrianba: true that the spec contains just those two sections, but in some ways thei are not quite examples, but more meaningful
16:29:13 ... but we are not enumerating all allowed formats
16:29:13 ... don't want a normative dependency
16:29:13 ... may want to move those definitions out of the core spec and have a registry like for MSE
16:29:20 ... might make sense that the registry defines the string as David says
16:29:24 pal: sounds good to me
16:29:44 s/thei are/they are/
16:30:00 paulc: may need to update the descriptions in the email thread -- carry forward there
16:30:24 ... will include on the agenda next week
16:30:30 subtopic: EME rendering behavior undefined
16:30:32 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2014Jan/0012.html
16:30:48 paulc: included in the agenda not realizing there would be more messages
16:30:57 ... not sure who has responded on the thread
16:31:12 ... what does the group want to do about this thread?
16:31:23 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/encrypted-media/encrypted-media.html#media-element-restictions
16:31:31 ... Mark asked which material Hans was referring to -- it was section 2.3
16:31:52 ... questioning whether material should be there at all or replaced with something more normative
16:32:03 ... any comments or suggestions?
16:32:08 q+
16:32:14
16:32:42 paulc: was added in response to bug#21555
16:32:57 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21155
16:33:04 ack adrian
16:33:17 s/bug#21555/bug#21155/
16:33:41 adrianba: don't thinkg section should go away, this is a quality of implementation issue for how restrictive playback is
16:33:55 ... on example is playing back in rectangular regions
16:34:04 ... possbile to tweek the text
16:34:14 s/thinkg/think/
16:34:29 ... don't know what the state of implementation is going to go here
16:35:05 paulc: so you are saying that even with this thread we want to hold off making changes until we get to CR?
16:35:07 q+
16:35:27 ack Bob
16:35:30 adrianba: threads suggests two possibile outcomes - very restrictive or no restrictions
16:36:03 boblund: agree with Adrian, to foster interop we should specify requirements somewhere
16:37:05 pal: in general - the issue of whether a UA supports a set of capabilities is outside the scope of EME correct?
16:37:28 BobLund: I think this is outside the scope of EME, debatable about whether outside the scope of HTML
16:38:07 pal: think that perhaps not all UAs support transparency or transformation, so should be a mechanism to discover whether UA supports those capabilities
16:38:50 BobLund: goes beyond CSS transform example, also covers what kind of layering the application can expect, broader than the points reaised in the thread
16:39:04 paulc: do those points apply to video in general and should EME make any changes?
16:39:12 s/reaised/raised/
16:39:41 s/should/does/
16:39:52 q+
16:39:58 ack adr
16:39:59 pal: commenter suggests that it is not clear that all UAs support capabilities mentioned by the commenter
16:40:28 adrianba: not a quection of whether feature is supported at all, question is whether those features support the element (video element)
16:40:55 q+
16:41:15 ... since rendering might be performed outside the UA then might not be able to do all the operations that UA might perform
16:41:28 ... question for whether supported with video and then whether supported for video with EME
16:41:54 ... i.e. can I do a 3D transform of the video in EME -- app may want to ask that
16:42:20 ... thinking about Internet Explorer, not sure where we will land in our ability to layer and transform the video
16:42:34 ... think we should wait and see how implementations go to see what restrictions we will have
16:42:50 ack pal
16:42:56 ... may be that we will need APIs may be implicit, not sure we know yet
16:43:10 pal: think you answered my question
16:43:27 ... today no generic API to discover capabilities for a specific object correct?
16:43:35 adrianba: correct
16:43:51 pal: then commenter should be encouraged to think about that
16:43:58 paulc: please add to the thread
16:44:13 subtopic: bug#24081
16:44:23 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24081
16:44:23 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24081#c2
16:44:50 paulc: Mark asked a question after last meeting about what you were asking for
16:44:58 mark's question: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=24081#c3
16:45:07 ddorwin: this was reopened after last weeks mtg
16:45:28 ddorwin: looked at his response, ran out of time
16:45:41 ... those are two issues, not sure they are the only two issues, trying to word it
16:46:00 ... thinkg you can be in or go to th READY state and be working
16:46:17 ... but not clear that there is an advantage to how we have separated READY and PENDING
16:46:25 q+
16:46:26 s/to th /to the/
16:46:31 ack adrian
16:46:37 s/thinkg/thinking/
16:46:44 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515#c16
16:47:01 adrianba: Jerry posted his proposal -- possible that this solves for one of these cases
16:47:14 See https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515#c16
16:47:37 ... doesn't necessariily giv ethe same information, but need more time to think about the implications
16:48:01 ... proposed that when you begin playback, you may want to display something to the user that a key exchange is occuring
16:48:18 ... want some way to know when the current exchange was ina READY state so you can remove the indicator
16:48:23 ... that was one of the goals
16:48:49 ... in Jerrys proposal - we have a state indication that media plaback is blocked waiting for a key
16:49:03 s/plaback/playback/
16:49:24 ... difference is that you would not get the indication till playback was blocked when you were not expecting to be blocked
16:49:31 ... maybe that is sufficient
16:49:50 paulc: so items are connected and people should look at proposal for 18515 as well
16:50:02