14:32:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y
14:32:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/10-mobile-a11y-irc
14:32:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 328
14:32:37 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y
14:32:39 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:32:39 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:32:40 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:32:40 <trackbot> Date: 10 January 2014
14:33:06 <kw> zakim, this will be 6283
14:33:06 <Zakim> ok, kw; I see WAI_MATF()10:00AM scheduled to start in 27 minutes
14:34:15 <kw> agenda+ Mobile Resources
14:34:30 <kw> agenda+ Review Mobile Challenges
14:35:50 <kw> agenda+ Review List of Mobile Assisitve Technologies
14:36:36 <kw> agenda+ Deliverables - Recap deliverables discussion, brainstorm ideas, and finalize deliverables
14:36:46 <kw> agenda+ Next Steps
14:36:49 <kw> agenda?
14:38:35 <KimPatch> KimPatch has joined #mobile-a11y
14:38:49 <kw> Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Taskforce
14:39:06 <kw> Chair: Kimberly_Patch
14:39:45 <kw> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2014Jan/0000.html
14:44:12 <KimPatch> KimPatch has joined #mobile-a11y
14:48:06 <kw> Regrets: AS
14:49:27 <Zakim> WAI_MATF()10:00AM has now started
14:49:34 <Zakim> + +1.978.760.aaaa
14:49:48 <kw> zakim, aaaa is Kathy
14:49:48 <Zakim> +Kathy; got it
14:50:08 <kw> Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Taskforce
14:50:21 <kw> Chair: Kimberly_Patch
14:50:27 <kw> Agenda?
14:50:52 <wwu> wwu has joined #mobile-a11y
14:53:39 <Zakim> +Kim_Patch
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14:55:34 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #mobile-a11y
14:57:43 <agarrison> agarrison has joined #mobile-a11y
14:58:01 <agarrison> Going to be a couple of minutes late
14:58:05 <Kathleen> Kathleen has joined #mobile-a11y
14:58:52 <Zakim> +Kathleen_Anderson
14:59:26 <Zakim> +DavidTodd
14:59:42 <Zakim> +WuWei
15:00:01 <DavidTodd> DavidTodd has joined #mobile-a11y
15:00:16 <kw> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kathy, Kim_Patch, Kathleen_Anderson, DavidTodd, WuWei
15:00:20 <Zakim> +jeanne
15:01:19 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:01:22 <agarrison> zakim, ipcaller is agarrison
15:01:22 <Zakim> +agarrison; got it
15:01:29 <kw> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kathy, Kim_Patch, Kathleen_Anderson, DavidTodd, WuWei, jeanne, agarrison
15:02:21 <Zakim> +??P35
15:02:30 <kw> scribe: agarrison
15:02:32 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P35 is Michael_Cooper
15:02:32 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper; got it
15:03:31 <agarrison> zakim, next item
15:03:31 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Mobile Resources" taken up [from kw]
15:03:47 <kw> zakim, mute me
15:03:47 <Zakim> sorry, kw, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:04:16 <KimPatch> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Mobile_Resources
15:04:39 <agarrison> Kim, looking at what we have been building and continue with resources
15:04:59 <agarrison> kim, are there any things missing?
15:05:18 <agarrison> Kathleen, yes for phone8 and microsoft surface
15:05:43 <agarrison> Kim, should be a list coming from Alan
15:06:07 <agarrison> Kathy, any further lists people have can be added to the list
15:06:55 <agarrison> Kathy, Andrew Arch could be adding some information and Gavin sent his best practices
15:07:34 <agarrison> Kim, there is room for videos - what are the thoughts on this?
15:08:01 <agarrison> Kathy, looks like a good list - has anyone had a chance to look at the resources?
15:08:24 <agarrison> Jeanne, Yes - The list looks comprehensive
15:08:54 <agarrison> Kathy - Can people start to look through the resources as the basis of our work going forward.
15:09:10 <agarrison> zakim, next item
15:09:10 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Review Mobile Challenges" taken up [from kw]
15:09:30 <KimPatch> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Mobile_Accessibility_Challenges
15:10:08 <agarrison> Kim, have people had a chance to review this
15:10:11 <gavinevans> gavinevans has joined #mobile-a11y
15:10:27 <agarrison> Kim, are there any missing challenges or pieces of information
15:10:54 <agarrison> Jeanne - Yes, there is a mobile accessibility workshop on facebook
15:11:05 <agarrison> Kim, are there any further challenges?
15:11:05 <Kathleen> https://www.facebook.com/groups/346444658786770/
15:11:56 <agarrison> Kim, looking at the missing information... are there bits which we still need to include - it cannot be complete
15:12:13 <agarrison> David, is there anything about contrast.
15:12:32 <agarrison> David, I don't know if iphone and android have high contrast
15:12:50 <agarrison> Kim, have people had a chance to look through them
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15:13:19 <agarrison> David, on IOS and Android I don't know if font can be increased to what would be needed for WCAG 2 AA
15:13:49 <agarrison> Kim, other challenges or missing information
15:14:25 <agarrison> Kathy, there are so many places to get information that it becomes tricky to find
15:14:37 <Zakim> +gavinevens
15:14:44 <agarrison> Kim, is it that there are so many apps on mobile devices
15:15:25 <KimPatch> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Mobile_Accessibility_Challenges
15:15:53 <agarrison> Kathy, when companies are looking for good examples of best practice - there are no lists
15:16:24 <wwu> wwu has joined #mobile-a11y
15:16:54 <agarrison> Kim, that makes sense - it is difficult to answer questions because there is so much experimentation
15:17:46 <agarrison> Jeanne, developers do not have the knowledge relating to accessibility i.e. aria
15:18:31 <agarrison> David, many desktop developers are adopting aria, but mobile is lagging which makes it difficult
15:18:58 <agarrison> Gavin, we are noticing the same thing - landmark support is lacking
15:19:39 <agarrison> Gavin, we have a wait between vendors and platform support
15:19:53 <agarrison> Kim, does gestures come into this
15:20:13 <agarrison> David, with bluetooth keyboard support this is an issue
15:20:30 <agarrison> Kim, are different developers dealing with it in different ways
15:20:47 <agarrison> David, yes - we have different widgets for different contexts
15:20:57 <agarrison> Kim, whats the solution
15:21:16 <agarrison> David - workarounds
15:21:33 <agarrison> Kim, would that be something this group could do
15:21:52 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
15:21:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html MichaelC
15:21:56 <agarrison> David, yes that could be something - especially around keyboard events
15:22:25 <agarrison> David, I don't know why Apple didn't do things with keyboard events
15:22:29 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
15:22:44 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #mobile-a11y
15:22:59 <agarrison> Gavin, there are areas which cause problems - but if they can be done in a sequential manner
15:23:19 <agarrison> Gavin, when you have a native app you can give hints
15:23:33 <agarrison> Thanks
15:24:02 <agarrison> Gavin:Widget can be implemented to achieve the same action
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15:24:26 <agarrison> Kim: Anyone else
15:24:32 <MichaelC> s/Thanks//
15:24:34 <kw> s/,/:
15:25:11 <KimPatch> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/List_of_mobile_assistive_technologies,_and_the_capabilities_and_limitations
15:25:38 <agarrison> zakim, next item
15:25:38 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Review List of Mobile Assisitve Technologies" taken up [from kw]
15:27:29 <kw> Allistair:  many items.  On iOS there are good assistive techologies but does not cover everyone
15:27:51 <kw> Allistair:  there is more items that could be added
15:28:57 <agarrison> Kathy: Happy to create a matrix of assistive technology
15:29:36 <agarrison> Kathy: Matrix would give a good overview
15:29:49 <agarrison> zakim, next item
15:29:49 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Deliverables - Recap deliverables discussion, brainstorm ideas, and finalize deliverables" taken up [from kw]
15:29:52 <kw> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/MATF_Deliverables
15:30:02 <agarrison> Kim, new page
15:30:14 <agarrison> Kim, these are the deliverables from last time
15:30:18 <wuwei> wuwei has joined #mobile-a11y
15:30:29 <Zakim> -Kathy
15:30:33 <agarrison> Kim, how does this list look - are there other things
15:31:13 <Zakim> +Kathy
15:31:54 <agarrison> Kathy: From the last meeting we came up with a list of things we would like to put together
15:32:30 <agarrison> Kathy: The other thing is in the task force description we have the techniques, design best practices and best practices
15:32:45 <agarrison> Kathy: Some of the W3C resources are out of date
15:32:57 <agarrison> Kathy: What are the most valuable things out there
15:33:13 <agarrison> Kathy: What can we do to give people the information they need
15:33:29 <agarrison> Kathy: Need a concise list of deliverables
15:33:47 <agarrison> Kathy: There was also the idea of creating personas
15:34:04 <agarrison> Kathy: Now that mobile devices are omnipresent
15:34:38 <agarrison> Kathy: How do blind people us a mobile - is a question which is frequently being asked
15:35:17 <agarrison> Kathy: Developers could be better informed through the use of personas
15:35:37 <gavinevans> q+
15:35:37 <agarrison> Kathy: What do people think, are there other things
15:36:15 <agarrison> Gavin: Clarify that I was going to send across videos - also have some more general videos
15:36:43 <agarrison> Gavin: What is needed is more specific material - looking at specific contexts
15:37:10 <agarrison> Gavin: Tackling native apps and web apps independently
15:37:28 <agarrison> Kim: there are more videos available now than before
15:37:40 <agarrison> Kim: Any further thoughts about the list
15:38:08 <agarrison> Kim: Resource lists - are there other lists which we could make public or put effort into
15:38:20 <agarrison> Kathy: A list of good applications for mobile
15:38:39 <agarrison> Kathy: It would be good for people to have concrete examples to look at
15:39:09 <agarrison> Kim: It would be good to define apps along with why they show best practice
15:40:05 <agarrison> Kim: Agree it is a little difficult to select apps - with regard to not playing favourites
15:40:14 <agarrison> Kathy: Does anyone have examples
15:40:17 <agarrison> Kim: Yes
15:40:21 <agarrison> Gavin: Yes
15:40:37 <agarrison> Kathy: We can create an accessible apps page
15:40:49 <agarrison> Kathy: I'll put it up
15:41:04 <agarrison> Kim: Any other thoughts on the resource lists
15:41:09 <agarrison> q
15:41:12 <agarrison> q?
15:41:20 <gavinevans> q-
15:42:12 <agarrison> Alistair: Development environments and tools
15:42:17 <agarrison> Gavin: Agree
15:42:50 <agarrison> Gavin: Chrome for example contains a Mobile testing area
15:43:15 <agarrison> Gavin: Same with other platforms - Extends to testing mobile apps
15:43:44 <agarrison> Kim: On the resources we have testing tools, but should we include development environments
15:43:49 <agarrison> Gavin: Yes
15:44:17 <agarrison> Gavin: Developers select specific development environments
15:44:45 <agarrison> Kim: should that we a separate page, or do we add it to the resources page
15:45:04 <agarrison> Kim: We shall add development environments to the same page
15:45:09 <agarrison> David: Agreed
15:45:26 <agarrison> Kim: Deliverables?
15:45:40 <agarrison> Kim: Any last thoughts on the resource list?
15:45:52 <agarrison> Kim: Other thoughts on the personas
15:46:29 <agarrison> David: By personas do you think disabilities of are you including situational disabilities
15:46:50 <agarrison> Kim: Personas of people with disabilities
15:47:05 <agarrison> Kathy: We can list the videos out there then decide
15:47:51 <agarrison> Kathy: We need to flesh out and finalise the list of current tasks
15:48:06 <agarrison> Kathy: Current deliverables
15:48:12 <KimPatch> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/work-statement
15:48:29 <agarrison> Kim: Other thoughts on deliverables
15:48:51 <agarrison> Kathleen: Google search W3C applies to mobile
15:49:13 <Kathleen> http://www.w3.org/TR/mwbp-wcag/wcag20-mwbp.html
15:49:29 <agarrison> Kathy: Some of the stuff we have listed is a little dated
15:49:36 <Zakim> +Alan_Smith
15:49:42 <agarrison> q+
15:51:15 <Alan> Alan has joined #mobile-a11y
15:51:20 <agarrison> Alistair: If the W3C process takes time - could we run a risk of producing material which is always off the leading edge
15:51:27 <Alan> sorry I'm late
15:51:32 <agarrison> Kim: Something to keep in mind
15:52:18 <agarrison> Kathy: Agree - it takes a while - so placing things on the wiki might allow a quicker speed to end user
15:52:36 <KimPatch> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/MATF_Deliverables
15:53:08 <agarrison> Kim: Any thoughts on the list?
15:53:58 <agarrison> Kim: We are going over the list to see if it makes sense
15:54:25 <agarrison> Alan: Number 1 seems to be the key - vendors who are reluctant about wcag 2 and web apps
15:54:49 <agarrison> Alan: Vendors don't want to commit to mobile accessibility - due to lack of guidelines
15:56:11 <agarrison> David: When we say to developers make the mobile app accessibility - they say where are the standards which say how to do that or that we should do that
15:56:31 <agarrison> Alan: Mobile apps are not seen as needed to comply
15:56:58 <agarrison> Jeanne: If there were techniques in WCAG 2 for mobile would people pay more attention
15:57:20 <agarrison> Alan: There should be more saying that WCAG 2 is also applicable to a mobile
15:57:29 <Kathleen> q+
15:57:37 <agarrison> q-
15:58:15 <gavinevans> Q+
15:58:22 <agarrison> Kathleen: would it be useful to put together a list of current W3C resources in this area
15:58:35 <jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/mobile/
15:58:44 <agarrison> Kim: Don't we already have that?
15:59:00 <agarrison> Alan: It would be better if it was easier to find
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15:59:26 <gavinevans> q-
15:59:47 <agarrison> Kathy: Before next meeting can everyone take a look at the development techniques - wcag 2.0 and how it applies to mobile
16:00:11 <agarrison> Kathy: This would be a good area to look at - and what resources are already available on the w3c
16:00:29 <agarrison> Kathy: This can then be compared back to our work statement
16:00:32 <kw> akim, list participants
16:00:37 <agarrison> Kim: Last thoughts
16:00:39 <kw> zakim, list participants
16:00:39 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.978.760.aaaa, Kathy, Kim_Patch, Kathleen_Anderson, DavidTodd, WuWei, jeanne, agarrison, Michael_Cooper, gavinevens, Alan_Smith
16:00:51 <kw> rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/10-mobile-a11y-minutes.html kw
16:00:55 <Zakim> -jeanne
16:00:59 <Zakim> -DavidTodd
16:01:02 <Zakim> -gavinevens
16:01:03 <Zakim> -Alan_Smith
16:01:04 <Zakim> -agarrison
16:01:05 <Zakim> -Kathleen_Anderson
16:01:05 <Zakim> -Kathy
16:01:09 <Zakim> -WuWei
16:01:11 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
16:01:23 <Alan> Untill next week. thanks everyone.
16:01:31 <Zakim> -Kim_Patch
16:01:32 <Zakim> WAI_MATF()10:00AM has ended
16:01:32 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.978.760.aaaa, Kathy, Kim_Patch, Kathleen_Anderson, DavidTodd, WuWei, jeanne, agarrison, Michael_Cooper, gavinevens, Alan_Smith
16:01:33 <gavinevans> thanks all
16:01:38 <gavinevans> -gavinevans
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