21:42:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
21:42:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2014/01/08-indie-ui-irc
21:42:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
21:42:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be INDIE
21:42:19 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_Indie()5:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes
21:42:20 <trackbot> Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
21:42:20 <trackbot> Date: 08 January 2014
21:42:48 <janina> agenda?
21:42:55 <janina> zakim, clear agenda
21:42:55 <Zakim> agenda cleared
21:43:02 <janina> zakim, agenda?
21:43:02 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
21:43:07 <janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force Teleconference
21:43:07 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
21:43:07 <janina> agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
21:43:07 <janina> agenda+ Meeting Conflict on 22 January?
21:43:07 <janina> agenda+ UAWG Review Requests
21:43:10 <janina> agenda+ Editor's Report
21:43:12 <janina> agenda+ Events Requirements Status & Actions
21:43:15 <janina> agenda+ Events Testing Update
21:43:17 <janina> agenda+ User Context Update; FPWD Criteria Discussion
21:43:20 <janina> agenda+ User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3
21:43:23 <janina> agenda+ Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
21:43:26 <janina> agenda+ Scribe for our Next Teleconference
21:43:28 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
21:46:42 <janina>  agenda?
21:51:58 <renoirb> renoirb has left #indie-ui
21:51:58 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()5:00PM has now started
21:52:05 <Zakim> +??P0
21:52:13 <janina> zakim, ??P0 is me
21:52:13 <Zakim> +janina; got it
21:52:23 <janina> zakim, Janina has Janina_Sajka
21:52:23 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
21:56:38 <Zakim> +??P1
21:58:04 <jasonjgw> jasonjgw has joined #indie-ui
21:59:05 <kurosawa> kurosawa has joined #indie-ui
21:59:17 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
21:59:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see janina, ??P1
21:59:18 <Zakim> janina has Janina_Sajka
21:59:48 <jasonjgw> zakim, ??P1 is me
21:59:48 <Zakim> +jasonjgw; got it
21:59:58 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
21:59:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see janina, jasonjgw
21:59:59 <Zakim> janina has Janina_Sajka
22:00:06 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #indie-ui
22:00:49 <Zakim> +??P2
22:00:59 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
22:01:31 <kurosawa> zakim, ??P2 is Kurosawa
22:01:31 <Zakim> +Kurosawa; got it
22:01:49 <Zakim> +[Apple]
22:02:04 <jcraig> Zakim, Apple has jcraig
22:02:04 <Zakim> +jcraig; got it
22:02:08 <Zakim> +??P5
22:02:17 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P5 is Michael_Cooper
22:02:17 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper; got it
22:02:57 <janina> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/meetings/2014-01-ftf
22:04:07 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #indie-ui
22:04:17 <Ryladog> scribe: Ryladog
22:04:31 <janina> zakim, take up item 1
22:04:31 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
22:05:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #indie-ui
22:05:06 <janina> zakim, close item 1
22:05:06 <Zakim> agendum 1, preview agenda with items from two minutes, closed
22:05:07 <Zakim> I see 10 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:05:07 <Zakim> 2. Meeting Conflict on 22 January? [from janina]
22:05:14 <Ryladog> ScribeNick: Ryladog
22:05:15 <janina> zakim, take up item 2
22:05:15 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Meeting Conflict on 22 January?" taken up [from janina]
22:05:26 <Ryladog> Scribe: Katie Haritos-Shea
22:06:26 <Ryladog> JS: Conflict on the Jan 22 folks traveling for PF F2F
22:06:29 <andy> andy has joined #indie-ui
22:06:40 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
22:07:20 <Ryladog> Chair: Janina
22:07:40 <Ryladog> JS: We can move it to the 29th if you like
22:07:52 <Zakim> +??P7
22:08:06 <andy> +Andy_Heath
22:08:41 <Ryladog> JS: Not meeting on the 22nd but will be meeting on the 29th
22:08:48 <andy> Zakim, ??P7 is me
22:08:48 <Zakim> +andy; got it
22:08:51 <Ryladog> zakim, make minutes
22:08:51 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make minutes', Ryladog
22:09:15 <Ryladog> rrs agent, make minutes
22:09:32 <Ryladog> rrsagent, make minutes
22:09:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/08-indie-ui-minutes.html Ryladog
22:09:46 <Ryladog> zakim, next item
22:09:46 <Zakim> agendum 3. "UAWG Review Requests" taken up [from janina]
22:10:29 <Ryladog> JS: the UAAG 2.0 Last Call
22:11:18 <Ryladog> JS: There are 2 email from Jeanne Spellman (W3C staff contact for UAAG) sent for us to reivew
22:11:30 <janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2014Jan/0001.html
22:11:44 <janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2014Jan/0002.html
22:11:54 <Ryladog> JS: These are the two email URLs for the review
22:12:29 <Ryladog> JS: You can give us a report on the 29th and others can comment
22:12:40 <Ryladog> JW: I will do that and post something to the list
22:12:54 <Ryladog> JS: Not usually our job in IndieUI
22:13:00 <Ryladog> zakim, next item
22:13:00 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Editor's Report" taken up [from janina]
22:13:55 <Ryladog> JC: Mainly editorial stuff responding to folks who have sent feedback. Mostly the high contrast issue - mostly informative changes
22:14:35 <Ryladog> JS: We have talked about publishing a stablization draft of Events
22:15:58 <Ryladog> JS: Micheal need to get all of our testing for a report to the Director - this is a good deal of work, with the PF F2F - so we are pushing that stabilization draft of Events probably out to February
22:16:19 <Zakim> -Kurosawa
22:16:27 <Ryladog> JS: You thought the draft was more ready than I thought
22:17:38 <Ryladog> JC: Yes all of the commnets and feedback especially for the TPAC, but most of them are closed. Maybe we can do that in February also. I did not promise the CG that we would do that - but itis possible to have a first public working draft
22:18:10 <Ryladog> JS: If we do not get it done by February thenit will prbably be un April bc of CSUN
22:18:25 <Ryladog> zakim, next item
22:18:25 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Events Requirements Status & Actions" taken up [from janina]
22:18:45 <MichaelC> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/IndieUI/raw-file/default/src/indie-ui-requirements.html
22:19:44 <Ryladog> MC: I have the document up - the editors draft is hear as a reminder. This verson has the Use Cases and events - the User Context section is currently empty. We have this for organizational purposes, but this is not set
22:20:22 <Ryladog> MC:It is useful to orgnaize by document. The document has pointers to where the requirments are addressed. You will see that there are some without pointers
22:21:21 <Zakim> +??P2
22:21:33 <kurosawa> zakim, ??P2 is me
22:21:33 <Zakim> +kurosawa; got it
22:21:42 <Ryladog> MC: There is a cross reference between use cases and event requirments. There are cases that there are requirments that are not tied to a scenario. And there are senarios that are not mapped to a requirment. So we need to revisit and clean all of that up
22:22:10 <Ryladog> MC: We cold probably publish this as is, but we can also wait until it is more mature
22:22:27 <Ryladog> JS: Good way to get comments to release as is...:-)
22:22:55 <Ryladog> JW: I think the scenarios were written before the requirments
22:23:32 <Ryladog> JS: Would anyone object to publishing this for review in this state?
22:24:20 <Ryladog> MC: The intro might need to be copied for UI Events into the this Introduction and we can put the Status of this Document point there as well
22:24:38 <Ryladog> JS: This makes sense to me. Any other thoughts?
22:25:17 <Ryladog> JW: Just is there any obvious fixes that would not be too controversial to do?
22:25:38 <Ryladog> MC: Yes the mapping - but I myself do not have much time this January
22:26:09 <Ryladog> RS: You want to just publish the Requirements?
22:27:01 <Ryladog> MC: I think we need at least one cycle of review before the First Public draft
22:27:25 <Ryladog> MC: Having a vetted requirements document helps us onthe documentation track
22:27:42 <Ryladog> RS: I do not see any issues, just that we review
22:28:59 <Ryladog> MC: We are targeting mid-February because the ARIA stuff for Jan 30th which is ambitous - but when we get that done I will be aleto move to IndieUI
22:29:24 <Ryladog> MC: Mid to late February.
22:29:52 <Ryladog> JS: I think we are hoping to get Events 1.0 to CR this year in 2014
22:30:23 <Ryladog> RS: Yes but we need to implementations. The Chrome guy is out having a new baby
22:31:17 <Ryladog> JS: In terms of next steps it looks possible that a stablization events draft - and a first public working draft for late February
22:31:42 <Ryladog> JS: and a first Requirements public working draft for late February
22:32:17 <Ryladog> JS: We and JUDY want to make the ARIA before CSUN if possible
22:32:47 <Ryladog> RS: I am see if I can help Judy. We really need to get ARIA out this year
22:33:15 <Ryladog> JS: Issaccson is doing something for Firefox OS to use IndieUI
22:33:30 <Ryladog> JS: It has been 4 or 5 months ago
22:33:56 <Ryladog> JC: He did say they would be interetsed but he did not commit to an implementation
22:34:34 <Ryladog> RS: If we do not think there are going to be a changing much we need to focus on the second implementation
22:35:22 <Ryladog> MC: InARIA testing became a big bottleneck and we want o avoid that with IndieUI. I do not have to be respobsible for the testing and hold things up
22:36:08 <Ryladog> MC: One of our problems has been that the potential implementor have not joined the IndieUI working group. We want to try to work with Mozilla more closely.
22:36:37 <Ryladog> JS: Lets see who we can get in Torornto to join the meeting when in Toronto
22:36:52 <Zakim> -kurosawa
22:37:12 <Ryladog> MC: We want to see if anybody has any test files or we can try to provide test files to implemntors
22:37:40 <Ryladog> MC: We can set up a smaller caucus for implemntors
22:38:26 <Ryladog> JS: Testing is a concern and identifying our other implementors
22:39:32 <Ryladog> JS: We have already had discussions that the Mozilla code base may be still e too Close bewtween MOzlla and Apple. Blink and WebKit
22:40:11 <Ryladog> JC: Somethings are completely diverged - there are cases that the same patch can e applied to both - if that is true it is too close
22:40:32 <Ryladog> RS: You could look at each others code base
22:41:02 <Ryladog> MC: We have to convince the Director that the implementations are seperate
22:41:23 <Ryladog> RS: I will contact Mike from Mozilla then
22:41:35 <Ryladog> SJ: Chrome might indeed be
22:41:49 <Ryladog> RS: Should we approach Microsoft?
22:42:16 <Ryladog> MC: Microsoft never said why they are not part of the Working Group
22:42:55 <Ryladog> MC: If we could get Mozilla and Opera that will probably pull Microsoft in
22:43:26 <Ryladog> RS: Well let me send an email to Champion at Microsoft
22:43:33 <Ryladog> zaakim, next item
22:43:48 <Ryladog> zakim, next item
22:43:48 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Events Testing Update" taken up [from janina]
22:44:16 <Ryladog> JS: We are acknowledging that this is important
22:44:32 <Ryladog> JC: Can you remind me of thename of the W3C
22:44:37 <Ryladog> MC: Toby
22:45:23 <Ryladog> JC: Hemight be a good person to ask about this. Unlike ARIA - this will not be tied to specific Accessibility APIs
22:45:44 <Ryladog> MC: Tody will refer us to Test the Web Forward and ??
22:46:15 <Ryladog> MC: It is worth talking to, he will be ale to help get us some pointers
22:46:31 <Ryladog> MC: What we lack in the harness is a runner
22:47:21 <Ryladog> MC: I do not think that it addreses the UAs that we will initially be running IndieU on. They are having a metting in San Fran in April the Browser Testing Group
22:47:48 <Ryladog> JC: What does the Test the Web Forward is doing what?
22:48:44 <Ryladog> MC hey get folks in a room to test specs that are needing testing in W3C specs - it is like a test file creation event. It does not clarify how to make these tests
22:49:01 <Ryladog> MC: I am not sure that it will help us or not
22:49:21 <Ryladog> JC: That does sound very useful to me for our needs
22:49:51 <Ryladog> MC: I amnot sure if the test harness has the ability to ttest the functioality at the layer of IndieUI events
22:50:01 <Ryladog> JC: But I think there is a way
22:50:55 <Ryladog> MC: Maybe with a combination of Web Driver and Test the Web Forward test harness may work for our needs
22:51:16 <Ryladog> MC: I think he (??) is still onstaff ad available
22:51:28 <Ryladog> JS: it is worth asking him
22:51:53 <Ryladog> MC: How should i phrase the question to him?
22:53:09 <Ryladog> MC: I will ask Toby about testharness.js and web driver is something that he can help us with and join us for a call
22:54:08 <Ryladog> JC: Is there something that is programmatically determinble like the acid test. It would be good for Toby to explain what TestHarness.js actually does
22:54:28 <MichaelC> -> http://testthewebforward.org/docs/testharness-tutorial.html TTWF documentation on testharness.js
22:54:28 <Ryladog> MC: Test the Web Forward actually hasbetter documentation
22:54:48 <Zakim> +??P2
22:55:08 <Ryladog> MC: We should understnd this info at this url before we speak with him - as well as Web Driver (which is a W3C spec)
22:55:10 <kurosawa> zakim, ??P2 is me
22:55:10 <Zakim> +kurosawa; got it
22:55:11 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/webdriver/ WebDriver
22:55:20 <Ryladog> JW: I think that wold be helpful
22:55:49 <Ryladog> MC: This version of Web Driver may be out of date - but understanding what it does may be importnat
22:56:13 <Ryladog> Takashi: I am not sure about this
22:56:33 <Ryladog> JS: We are trying to find out where you expertiseis
22:57:27 <Ryladog> JC: Jus looking at the Test Harness I think I could write a few tests. It is very similar to how WebKit tests are set up. The asynchronous testing may be an issue
22:57:47 <Ryladog> zakim, next item
22:57:47 <Zakim> agendum 7. "User Context Update; FPWD Criteria Discussion" taken up [from janina]
22:57:59 <Ryladog> AH: Nothing
22:58:42 <Ryladog> JW: Paper presentation in Paris - I will be corrdinating with Andy on this..
22:58:56 <Ryladog> JS: This  has been a good restart
22:59:05 <Zakim> -[Apple]
22:59:06 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
22:59:07 <Zakim> -janina
22:59:09 <Zakim> -kurosawa
22:59:15 <Ryladog> JS: We will meet agian in three weeks onJanuary 29th
22:59:17 <Zakim> -jasonjgw
22:59:21 <Zakim> -andy
22:59:22 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
22:59:37 <Ryladog> rrsagent, make minutes
22:59:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2014/01/08-indie-ui-minutes.html Ryladog
23:05:00 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Katie_Haritos-Shea, in WAI_Indie()5:00PM
23:05:02 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()5:00PM has ended
23:05:02 <Zakim> Attendees were Janina_Sajka, jasonjgw, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kurosawa, jcraig, Michael_Cooper, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, andy