None.
14:41:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-irc ←
14:41:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
14:41:59 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2 ←
14:41:59 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes ←
14:42:00 <trackbot> Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference
14:42:00 <trackbot> Date: 11 February 2009
14:42:44 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started ←
14:42:51 <Zakim> +??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←
14:43:13 <Zakim> +Roland
Zakim IRC Bot: +Roland ←
14:43:15 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita ←
14:43:15 <mgylling> zakim, ??P17 is mgylling
Markus Gylling: zakim, ??P17 is mgylling ←
14:43:16 <oedipus> Scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
(Scribe set to Gregory Rosmaita)
14:43:16 <Zakim> +mgylling; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +mgylling; got it ←
14:43:22 <oedipus> ScribeNick: oedipus
14:43:35 <oedipus> Regrets: Mark_Birbeck, Shane_McCarron
14:43:56 <Roland> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Feb/0024.html
14:43:57 <oedipus> previous: http://www.w3.org/2009/02/04-xhtml-minutes.html
14:44:15 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:44:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:44:42 <oedipus> Chair: Roland_Merrick
14:45:08 <Zakim> + +0468645aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +0468645aaaa ←
14:45:11 <Zakim> - +0468645aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: - +0468645aaaa ←
14:45:50 <oedipus> Open Actions: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/open
Open Actions: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/open ←
14:46:00 <Zakim> + +0468645aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +0468645aabb ←
14:46:10 <oedipus> TOPIC: Getting Started & Agenda Additions/Requests
14:46:23 <Tina> Zakim, aabb is Tina
Tina Holmboe: Zakim, aabb is Tina ←
14:46:23 <Zakim> +Tina; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Tina; got it ←
14:46:32 <oedipus> zakim, who is here?
zakim, who is here? ←
14:46:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see mgylling, Roland, Gregory_Rosmaita, Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see mgylling, Roland, Gregory_Rosmaita, Tina ←
14:46:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, mgylling, Tina, Roland, oedipus, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, mgylling, Tina, Roland, oedipus, trackbot ←
14:46:58 <oedipus> RS: steven may on be able to participate via IRC due to attendance at Forms F2F
Roland Merrick: steven may on be able to participate via IRC due to attendance at Forms F2F ←
14:47:38 <oedipus> GJR: ensure alignment of ARIA roles and XHTML Vocab document - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Feb/0029.html
Gregory Rosmaita: ensure alignment of ARIA roles and XHTML Vocab document - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2009Feb/0029.html ←
14:47:48 <oedipus> TOPIC: Action Item Review
14:48:14 <oedipus> RS: not done the XML Events 2 related actions; shane not here to update
Roland Merrick: not done the XML Events 2 related actions; shane not here to update ←
14:48:24 <oedipus> RS: not sure of status of steven's open actions
Roland Merrick: not sure of status of steven's open actions ←
14:48:41 <oedipus> s/RS:/RM:/G
14:48:53 <oedipus> RM: haven't seen the transition request
Roland Merrick: haven't seen the transition request ←
14:49:05 <oedipus> GJR: shane mentioned that he had 4 PER drafts in his regrets notice
Gregory Rosmaita: shane mentioned that he had 4 PER drafts in his regrets notice ←
14:49:24 <oedipus> RM: don't think any actions can close today
Roland Merrick: don't think any actions can close today ←
14:49:45 <oedipus> TOPIC: ARIA and XHTML Vocab
14:50:17 <oedipus> GJR: vocab doc has gotten out of sync with the ARIA spec; PFWG will be voting today to send the draft at http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/aria
Gregory Rosmaita: vocab doc has gotten out of sync with the ARIA spec; PFWG will be voting today to send the draft at http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/aria ←
14:50:37 <oedipus> GJR: noticed that there were at least 1 or 2 roles missing -- including the "math" role
Gregory Rosmaita: noticed that there were at least 1 or 2 roles missing -- including the "math" role ←
14:50:46 <oedipus> GJR: i emailed shane about it directly
Gregory Rosmaita: i emailed shane about it directly ←
14:52:36 <oedipus> RS: point of section is whatever ARIA wants it to be; so what ARIA says, that's what they should be
Roland Merrick: point of section is whatever ARIA wants it to be; so what ARIA says, that's what they should be ←
14:52:46 <oedipus> GJR: didn't want to fall through the cracks
Gregory Rosmaita: didn't want to fall through the cracks ←
14:53:11 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/aria
http://www.w3.org/wai/pf/aria ←
14:53:29 <oedipus> 10 February 2009 Editor's Draft of ARIA
10 February 2009 Editor's Draft of ARIA ←
14:54:47 <oedipus> GJR: so far only one missing for sure is "math" -- GJR will quintuple check
Gregory Rosmaita: so far only one missing for sure is "math" -- GJR will quintuple check ←
14:55:49 <oedipus> ACTION: GJR - ensure that XHTML Vocab Document in sync with ARIA 1.0 Last Call draft are in sync
ACTION: GJR - ensure that XHTML Vocab Document in sync with ARIA 1.0 Last Call draft are in sync ←
14:55:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-49 - - ensure that XHTML Vocab Document in sync with ARIA 1.0 Last Call draft are in sync [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2009-02-18].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-49 - - ensure that XHTML Vocab Document in sync with ARIA 1.0 Last Call draft are in sync [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2009-02-18]. ←
14:55:56 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:55:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:56:07 <oedipus> RM: ARIA document to go to last call
Roland Merrick: ARIA document to go to last call ←
14:57:47 <oedipus> MG: the ARIA spec doesn't rec the CURIE spec, right? impllications?
Markus Gylling: the ARIA spec doesn't rec the CURIE spec, right? impllications? ←
14:58:15 <oedipus> GJR: as i understand it, is that the CURIE spec when we were drafting ARIA was under an existential assault
Gregory Rosmaita: as i understand it, is that the CURIE spec when we were drafting ARIA was under an existential assault ←
14:59:45 <oedipus> GJR: bin of ideas for ARIA 2.0 includes support for CURIE
Gregory Rosmaita: bin of ideas for ARIA 2.0 includes support for CURIE ←
14:59:57 <oedipus> RM: in default namespace -- doesn't need referrencing
Roland Merrick: in default namespace -- doesn't need referrencing ←
15:00:13 <oedipus> MG: all ARIA roles are going into the XHTML Vocab document
Markus Gylling: all ARIA roles are going into the XHTML Vocab document ←
15:00:28 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab/
http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab/ ←
15:00:43 <oedipus> RM: yes
Roland Merrick: yes ←
15:01:10 <oedipus> RM: pragmatic move on both WG's parts
Roland Merrick: pragmatic move on both WG's parts ←
15:01:26 <oedipus> TOPIC: XHTML 2 Issues
15:01:53 <oedipus> RM: shane not here, so may be tricky; could open discussion on INS, DEL and marking up changes in documents
Roland Merrick: shane not here, so may be tricky; could open discussion on INS, DEL and marking up changes in documents ←
15:02:42 <oedipus> MG: discussed a few telecons ago -- decision to reintroduce elements rather than define attribute values
Markus Gylling: discussed a few telecons ago -- decision to reintroduce elements in addition to defining attribute values ←
15:02:51 <oedipus> RM: where should allow INS and DEL to be specified
Roland Merrick: where should allow INS and DEL to be specified ←
15:02:55 <oedipus> TH: inline content
Tina Holmboe: inline content ←
15:03:16 <oedipus> TH: avoid unecessary SPAN to mark change with attribute
Tina Holmboe: avoid unecessary SPAN to mark change with attribute ←
15:03:43 <oedipus> s/rather than define/in addition to defining
15:03:53 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:03:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:04:34 <oedipus> RM: not sure that we came to firm conclusion; INS and DEL - what is its scope - can it nest new paragraph, new div, etc.
Roland Merrick: not sure that we came to firm conclusion; INS and DEL - what is its scope - can it nest new paragraph, new div, etc. ←
15:04:47 <oedipus> RM: put into text module was suggestion -- same module with paragraph
Roland Merrick: put into text module was suggestion -- same module with paragraph ←
15:05:04 <oedipus> GJR: so are we discussing retention of the "Flow" element concept
Gregory Rosmaita: so are we discussing retention of the "Flow" element concept ←
15:05:53 <oedipus> RM: that's the difficulty; can only be used in specific places; if on containers, should allow properties on containers (sections or DIVs) that say this section is inserted or this is deleted
Roland Merrick: that's the difficulty; can only be used in specific places; if on containers, should allow properties on containers (sections or DIVs) that say this section is inserted or this is deleted ←
15:06:15 <oedipus> RM: might want both ways to do this; just add attribute to structural elements
Roland Merrick: might want both ways to do this; just add attribute to structural elements ←
15:06:51 <oedipus> GJR: a) a means of marking editorial changes;
Gregory Rosmaita: a) a means of marking editorial changes; ←
15:06:51 <oedipus> b) a means of classifying an editorial change;
b) a means of classifying an editorial change; ←
15:06:51 <oedipus> c) a means of conveying when and by whom the change was affected;
c) a means of conveying when and by whom the change was affected; ←
15:06:51 <oedipus> d) a recognition that things are not black and white, but a thousand
d) a recognition that things are not black and white, but a thousand ←
15:06:51 <oedipus> shades of grey
shades of grey ←
15:07:48 <oedipus> GJR: basis of my position is that a single element would be the easiest solution
Gregory Rosmaita: basis of my position is that a single element would be the easiest solution ←
15:08:21 <oedipus> RM: my experience in XML spec easier to say, "here i am opening a new DIV and add attribute rather than using an INS element
Roland Merrick: my experience in XML spec easier to say, "here i am opening a new DIV and add attribute rather than using an INS element ←
15:08:38 <oedipus> GJR: MOD or whatever would be the structural element
Gregory Rosmaita: MOD or whatever would be the structural element ←
15:08:44 <Roland> <div diff="add"> . . .
Roland Merrick: <div diff="add"> . . . ←
15:09:01 <Roland> <div><ins> . . .
Roland Merrick: <div><ins> . . . ←
15:09:11 <oedipus> TH: still good idea to avoid semantically empty elements in examples -- can we use P instead of DIV?
Tina Holmboe: still good idea to avoid semantically empty elements in examples -- can we use P instead of DIV? ←
15:09:39 <oedipus> RM: might consider semantically meaningless, but used all over the place
Roland Merrick: might consider semantically meaningless, but used all over the place ←
15:09:48 <Roland> <p diff="add"> . . .
Roland Merrick: <p diff="add"> . . . ←
15:09:55 <oedipus> GJR: a lot of mashups will be served with DIVs or as DIVs
Gregory Rosmaita: a lot of mashups will be served with DIVs or as DIVs ←
15:09:58 <Roland> <p><ins> . . .
Roland Merrick: <p><ins> . . . ←
15:10:32 <oedipus> TH: can use DIV to cover a large section of modified text; too much use of SPAN and DIV --
Tina Holmboe: can use DIV to cover a large section of modified text; too much use of SPAN and DIV -- ←
15:10:57 <oedipus> RM: easier to think that i need new paragraph and property of P added and add other info with RDFa in the paragraph
Roland Merrick: easier to think that i need new paragraph and property of P added and add other info with RDFa in the paragraph ←
15:11:17 <oedipus> TH: only problem is more than one attribute needed: who did it; what was changed?
Tina Holmboe: only problem is more than one attribute needed: who did it; what was changed? ←
15:11:21 <oedipus> RM: have that in RDFa
Roland Merrick: have that in RDFa ←
15:11:26 <oedipus> GJR: agree
Gregory Rosmaita: agree ←
15:11:35 <oedipus> TH: how expressed on specific element, such as P
Tina Holmboe: how expressed on specific element, such as P ←
15:12:03 <oedipus> TH: does RDFa have something that says this is what was, this is what new paragraph is; need more info than just "this has been changesd
Tina Holmboe: does RDFa have something that says this is what was, this is what new paragraph is; need more info than just "this has been changesd ←
15:12:29 <oedipus> RM: much easier to use INS and DEL -- simple binary straightforward
Roland Merrick: much easier to use INS and DEL -- simple binary straightforward ←
15:12:50 <oedipus> GJR: no problem with INS and DEL, but think need MOD
Gregory Rosmaita: no problem with INS and DEL, but think need MOD ←
15:13:28 <oedipus> TH: inline, use MOD with attribute to state how modified; want to avoid using attributes only for this so authors are tempted to use SPAN and DIV to indicate; INS and DEL or MOD fine with me
Tina Holmboe: inline, use MOD with attribute to state how modified; want to avoid using attributes only for this so authors are tempted to use SPAN and DIV to indicate; INS and DEL or MOD fine with me ←
15:13:45 <oedipus> GJR: understand and appreciate caution
Gregory Rosmaita: understand and appreciate caution ←
15:14:30 <oedipus> TH: MOD gets complicated - this is added this is deleted; MOD needs 2 sets of data -- what was, and what is; if can do with RDFa, fine, but don't think need that much complexity
Tina Holmboe: MOD gets complicated - this is added this is deleted; MOD needs 2 sets of data -- what was, and what is; if can do with RDFa, fine, but don't think need that much complexity ←
15:14:59 <oedipus> GJR: MOD springs from the diffuclty i have always when attempting to parse auarally a DIFF docuemnt
Gregory Rosmaita: MOD springs from the diffuclty i have always when attempting to parse auarally a DIFF docuemnt ←
15:15:22 <oedipus> GJR: was successful in getting the W3C DIFF generator to use INS and DEL instead of SPAN
Gregory Rosmaita: was successful in getting the W3C DIFF generator to use INS and DEL instead of SPAN ←
15:16:03 <oedipus> GJR: for spelling or grammar change do you really want to have both the deleted and inserted text even though 90% of content is same?
Gregory Rosmaita: for spelling or grammar change do you really want to have both the deleted and inserted text even though 90% of content is same? ←
15:16:48 <oedipus> TH: would say yes, based on fact that CSS word-wrap property -- MS suggests as arbitrary break point; in some languages, that can change contents -- can't do unless have dictionary in UA
Tina Holmboe: would say yes, based on fact that CSS word-wrap property -- MS suggests as arbitrary break point; in some languages, that can change contents -- can't do unless have dictionary in UA ←
15:17:22 <oedipus> TH: spelling change in document very subtle, but can completely change meaning of paragraph, would like to know what is there -- especially if something there, referred to and chaanged again
Tina Holmboe: spelling change in document very subtle, but can completely change meaning of paragraph, would like to know what is there -- especially if something there, referred to and chaanged again ←
15:17:53 <oedipus> GJR: one strategy for that is to use the global @src to point to the earlier wording in an earlier draft for minor edits
Gregory Rosmaita: one strategy for that is to use the global @src to point to the earlier wording in an earlier draft for minor edits ←
15:18:21 <oedipus> TH: almost agree there -- INS and DEL or MOD are not set up for complicated document history
Tina Holmboe: almost agree there -- INS and DEL or MOD are not set up for complicated document history ←
15:18:51 <oedipus> TH: agree with idea - use INS and DEL add history by linking to it, need to say this isn't a regular @src but a link to the history
Tina Holmboe: agree with idea - use INS and DEL add history by linking to it, need to say this isn't a regular @src but a link to the history ←
15:19:14 <oedipus> TH: MOD with @src would be handled differently than on other elements
Tina Holmboe: MOD with @src would be handled differently than on other elements ←
15:19:21 <oedipus> RM: number of different themes
Roland Merrick: number of different themes ←
15:19:21 <Roland> <p diff="add">I will.</p><p diff="del">I will not.</p>
Roland Merrick: <p diff="add">I will.</p><p diff="del">I will not.</p> ←
15:19:21 <Roland> <p diff="chg">I will.</p>
Roland Merrick: <p diff="chg">I will.</p> ←
15:19:21 <Roland> <ins>I will.</ins><del>I will not.</del>
Roland Merrick: <ins>I will.</ins><del>I will not.</del> ←
15:19:21 <Roland> <mod>I will.</mod>
Roland Merrick: <mod>I will.</mod> ←
15:19:53 <oedipus> RM: INS and DEL, INS, DEL and MOD, or just MOD -- MOD alone not sufficient
Roland Merrick: INS and DEL, INS, DEL and MOD, or just MOD -- MOD alone not sufficient ←
15:20:07 <oedipus> RM: rather mark add this delete that
Roland Merrick: rather mark add this delete that ←
15:20:40 <oedipus> RM: MOD or @chg don't know what was there before, just know changed; don't have situation if have binary INS and DEL
Roland Merrick: MOD or @chg don't know what was there before, just know changed; don't have situation if have binary INS and DEL ←
15:21:01 <oedipus> RM: integrated and deleted in one place with INS and DEL, but not with MOD
Roland Merrick: integrated and deleted in one place with INS and DEL, but not with MOD ←
15:21:21 <oedipus> TH: RM's example very good; like to have revision handling mechanism spelt out
Tina Holmboe: RM's example very good; like to have revision handling mechanism spelt out ←
15:21:34 <oedipus> RM: process of change -- delete or add things -- that's how keyboards work
Roland Merrick: process of change -- delete or add things -- that's how keyboards work ←
15:22:10 <oedipus> GJR: what about changing spelling of one word
Gregory Rosmaita: what about changing spelling of one word ←
15:22:32 <oedipus> RM: old word should be deleted and new word should be added -- not change in letter, but in word
Roland Merrick: old word should be deleted and new word should be added -- not change in letter, but in word ←
15:22:56 <oedipus> GJR: i'm thinking about the hell that it is trying to keep up with DIFF markings especially on wiki pages
Gregory Rosmaita: i'm thinking about the hell that it is trying to keep up with DIFF markings especially on wiki pages ←
15:23:20 <oedipus> GJR: course of last resort for sanity's sake is document source
Gregory Rosmaita: course of last resort for sanity's sake is document source ←
15:23:39 <oedipus> RM: marking up changes as much a part of good design as anything else, can be done badly or can be done well
Roland Merrick: marking up changes as much a part of good design as anything else, can be done badly or can be done well ←
15:24:56 <oedipus> TH: DIFF documents very binary -- markup what taken out and what is put in; if have long piece of code or content to make sense in context, wouldn't work if each UA read paragraph, then stopped in the middle and says a word 2 times; but no more helpful if have to read paragraph twice
Tina Holmboe: DIFF documents very binary -- markup what taken out and what is put in; if have long piece of code or content to make sense in context, wouldn't work if each UA read paragraph, then stopped in the middle and says a word 2 times; but no more helpful if have to read paragraph twice ←
15:25:40 <oedipus> RM: i would like it to read what i've got and there has been a change -- don't want to see diff marks in many cases -- choice by user -- show me the history, what has changed --
Roland Merrick: i would like it to read what i've got and there has been a change -- don't want to see diff marks in many cases -- choice by user -- show me the history, what has changed -- ←
15:25:55 <oedipus> RM: sympathize if have to use TTS to read a DIFF marked document
Roland Merrick: sympathize if have to use TTS to read a DIFF marked document ←
15:26:48 <oedipus> GJR: strategy used to process a DIFF document aurally is an ad hoc use of a screen reader's "skim" feature, in which one can set basic font characteristic parameters so that only content that meets a specific criterion is spoken
Gregory Rosmaita: strategy used to process a DIFF document aurally is an ad hoc use of a screen reader's "skim" feature, in which one can set basic font characteristic parameters so that only content that meets a specific criterion is spoken ←
15:27:20 <oedipus> GJR: but in essense, that means that one is actually processing the content multiple times to extract what one would like to be able to parse in one go
Gregory Rosmaita: but in essense, that means that one is actually processing the content multiple times to extract what one would like to be able to parse in one go ←
15:28:17 <oedipus> GJR: screen reader bug is can only recognize a limited pallate of color names, only Orca gives change to filter by color codes
Gregory Rosmaita: screen reader bug is can only recognize a limited pallate of color names, only Orca gives change to filter by color codes ←
15:28:31 <Roland> <ins>dog</ins><del>dig</del>
Roland Merrick: <ins>dog</ins><del>dig</del> ←
15:28:31 <Roland> d<ins>o</ins><del>i</del>g
Roland Merrick: d<ins>o</ins><del>i</del>g ←
15:28:31 <Roland> <mod>dog</mod>
Roland Merrick: <mod>dog</mod> ←
15:28:37 <oedipus> RM: what would we consider good practice
Roland Merrick: what would we consider good practice ←
15:28:52 <oedipus> RM: how to deal with questions: many means of doing this
Roland Merrick: how to deal with questions: many means of doing this ←
15:29:33 <Roland> d<mod>o</mod>g
Roland Merrick: d<mod>o</mod>g ←
15:30:00 <oedipus> RM: all of the above examples are possible, but what is easiest to author, read, listen to
Roland Merrick: all of the above examples are possible, but what is easiest to author, read, listen to ←
15:30:39 <oedipus> RM: prefer first method - inserted correction and marked incorrect spelling with DEL
Roland Merrick: prefer first method - inserted correction and marked incorrect spelling with DEL ←
15:30:49 <oedipus> RM: should be dealing with words, phrases paragraphs
Roland Merrick: should be dealing with words, phrases paragraphs ←
15:31:06 <oedipus> TH: prefer DEL before INS
Tina Holmboe: prefer DEL before INS ←
15:31:30 <oedipus> TH: if have screen reader can filter it to ignore DEL
Tina Holmboe: if have screen reader can filter it to ignore DEL ←
15:31:37 <Roland> <del>dig</del><ins>dog</ins>
Roland Merrick: <del>dig</del><ins>dog</ins> ←
15:32:23 <oedipus> GJR: that would work, and in addition if there was a cue from the AT that text is marked as INS, then a user could stop, and query for the characteriscs of content that is marked DEL to get context
Gregory Rosmaita: that would work, and in addition if there was a cue from the AT that text is marked as INS, then a user could stop, and query for the characteriscs of content that is marked DEL to get context ←
15:33:06 <oedipus> GJR: in flow of reading would want to suppress that, but still needs to be available to user on user request/query
Gregory Rosmaita: in flow of reading would want to suppress that, but still needs to be available to user on user request/query ←
15:33:24 <oedipus> RM: still leaves question -- what happens when in middle of words
Roland Merrick: still leaves question -- what happens when in middle of words ←
15:33:57 <oedipus> GJR: have sympathy for word, phrase limitation
Gregory Rosmaita: have sympathy for word, phrase limitation ←
15:35:22 <oedipus> GJR: would like to avoid internal use of modidifier element inside a word to encase a single letter or group of letters
Gregory Rosmaita: would like to avoid internal use of modidifier element inside a word to encase a single letter or group of letters ←
15:35:35 <oedipus> TH: agreement there
Tina Holmboe: agreement there ←
15:36:12 <oedipus> proposed resolved: modified text must be at least a word?
proposed resolved: modified text must be at least a word? ←
15:36:46 <oedipus> TH: speech browser should look for modified attribute on section or paragraph and skip according to user preference
Tina Holmboe: speech browser should look for modified attribute on section or paragraph and skip according to user preference ←
15:37:27 <oedipus> RM: suggest that GJR attempt to write up where we've got to at end of discussion as proposal for discussion next week
Roland Merrick: suggest that GJR attempt to write up where we've got to at end of discussion as proposal for discussion next week ←
15:37:33 <oedipus> RM: much easier to work with examples
Roland Merrick: much easier to work with examples ←
15:38:26 <oedipus> ACTION: GJR - send summation of discussion (this is what we need from language point of view and good practices bad practices) with examples
ACTION: GJR - send summation of discussion (this is what we need from language point of view and good practices bad practices) with examples ←
15:38:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-50 - - send summation of discussion (this is what we need from language point of view and good practices bad practices) with examples [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2009-02-18].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-50 - - send summation of modification markup discussion (this is what we need from a declarative markup point of view, a natural language point of view, and propose good practices and bad practices) with examples [on Gregory Rosmaita - due 2009-02-18]. ←
15:39:04 <oedipus> RM: short time left -- markus, could you talk with us about M12n and XHTML family
Roland Merrick: short time left -- markus, could you talk with us about M12n and XHTML family ←
15:39:17 <oedipus> TOPIC: Modularization and the XHTML Family
15:39:55 <oedipus> MG: overarching theme: take XHTML m12n in a direction which caters more for language designers than it has done before; allow ability to express sub-sets of complliance modules being imported
Markus Gylling: overarching theme: take XHTML m12n in a direction which caters more for language designers than it has done before; allow ability to express sub-sets of complliance modules being imported ←
15:40:14 <oedipus> MG: stumble upon idea working in DAISY context with XHTML modules, but believe has generic value
Markus Gylling: stumble upon idea working in DAISY context with XHTML modules, but believe has generic value ←
15:40:31 <oedipus> MG: changing scope of m12n in way that expands potential audience of framework
Markus Gylling: changing scope of m12n in way that expands potential audience of framework ←
15:41:17 <oedipus> MG: embryonic idea is that there is a way of restricting sub-set-ability so not to allow content models that are distortions; conssistency of functionality
Markus Gylling: embryonic idea is that there is a way of restricting sub-set-ability so not to allow content models that are distortions; conssistency of functionality ←
15:41:57 <oedipus> MG: discussed with Shane over phone; one approach: have abstract definitions which are currently tabular, add a column to show module where sub-setting is allowed
Markus Gylling: discussed with Shane over phone; one approach: have abstract definitions which are currently tabular, add a column to show module where sub-setting is allowed ←
15:42:18 <oedipus> MG: need to try out concretely to ascertian how and if it works and most effective and balanced solution
Markus Gylling: need to try out concretely to ascertian how and if it works and most effective and balanced solution ←
15:43:08 <oedipus> RM: reasonable thing to do; come across this difficulty when OMA trying to create profile using legacy module -- did anyway even though m12n framework doesn't allow -- technically not valid, but pragmatically workable
Roland Merrick: reasonable thing to do; come across this difficulty when OMA trying to create profile using legacy module -- did anyway even though m12n framework doesn't allow -- technically not valid, but pragmatically workable ←
15:43:40 <oedipus> MG: DAISY would do the same -- utilize XHTML module sets as language author; number of compliance grammers needs to grow by embracing this way of using it as well
Markus Gylling: DAISY would do the same -- utilize XHTML module sets as language author; number of compliance grammers needs to grow by embracing this way of using it as well ←
15:44:15 <oedipus> RM: grammar is small part of it; number of documents which will be valid against super-set will be greatly increased; grammars only a means to an end to create documents
Roland Merrick: grammar is small part of it; number of documents which will be valid against super-set will be greatly increased; grammars only a means to an end to create documents ←
15:44:30 <oedipus> MG: risk is UAs being developed that cater only to sub-set
Markus Gylling: risk is UAs being developed that cater only to sub-set ←
15:44:46 <oedipus> RM: already in situation where UA devs support only bits in which they are interested already
Roland Merrick: already in situation where UA devs support only bits in which they are interested already ←
15:44:59 <oedipus> MG: fait accompli, true, just don't want to make worse
Markus Gylling: fait accompli, true, just don't want to make worse ←
15:45:19 <oedipus> RM: reached end of time for today
Roland Merrick: reached end of time for today ←
15:45:23 <oedipus> RM: any burning issues?
Roland Merrick: any burning issues? ←
15:45:38 <oedipus> GJR: will alert the WG results of ARIA LC vote
Gregory Rosmaita: will alert the WG results of ARIA LC vote ←
15:45:50 <oedipus> RM: i will be on holiday next week, steven will probably chair
Roland Merrick: i will be on holiday next week, steven will probably chair ←
15:45:55 <oedipus> TH: regrets for next week
Tina Holmboe: regrets for next week ←
15:45:56 <Zakim> -mgylling
Zakim IRC Bot: -mgylling ←
15:45:57 <Zakim> -Roland
Zakim IRC Bot: -Roland ←
15:46:02 <Zakim> -Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: -Tina ←
15:46:03 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita ←
15:46:03 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended ←
15:46:05 <Zakim> Attendees were Roland, Gregory_Rosmaita, mgylling, +0468645aaaa, +0468645aabb, Tina
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Roland, Gregory_Rosmaita, mgylling, +0468645aaaa, +0468645aabb, Tina ←
15:46:07 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:46:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:46:41 <oedipus> present- +0468645aaa, +0468645aabb
present- +0468645aaa, +0468645aabb ←
15:46:47 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:46:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:47:22 <oedipus> present- +0468645aaaa
present- +0468645aaaa ←
15:47:26 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:47:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:47:34 <oedipus> ADJOURN
ADJOURN ←
15:47:38 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:47:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:47:59 <oedipus> regrets+ Steven_Pemberton
regrets+ Steven_Pemberton ←
15:48:02 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:48:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:49:23 <oedipus> zakim, please part
zakim, please part ←
15:56:18 <oedipus> s/send summation of discussion (this is what we need from language point of view and good practices bad practices) with examples/send summation of modification markup discussion (this is what we need from a declarative markup point of view, a natural language point of view, and propose good practices and bad practices) with examples
15:56:23 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
(No events recorded for 7 minutes)
rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:56:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:56:54 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part
rrsagent, please part ←
15:56:54 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-actions.rdf :
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-actions.rdf : ←
15:56:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: GJR - ensure that XHTML Vocab Document in sync with ARIA 1.0 Last Call draft are in sync [1]
ACTION: GJR - ensure that XHTML Vocab Document in sync with ARIA 1.0 Last Call draft are in sync [1] ←
15:56:54 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-irc#T14-55-49
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-irc#T14-55-49 ←
15:56:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: GJR - send summation of discussion (this is what we need from language point of view and good practices bad practices) with examples [2]
ACTION: GJR - send summation of discussion (this is what we need from language point of view and good practices bad practices) with examples [2] ←
15:56:54 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-irc#T15-38-26
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2009/02/11-xhtml-irc#T15-38-26 ←
Formatted by CommonScribe