There are some format problems with the chatlog. Please correct them and reload this page. They are labeled on this page in a red box, like this message.
It may be helpful to
14:38:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/03-xhtml-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/03-xhtml-irc ←
14:38:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
14:38:28 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be IA_XHTML2 ←
14:38:28 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see IA_XHTML2()9:45AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes ←
14:38:29 <trackbot> Meeting: XHTML2 Working Group Teleconference
14:38:29 <trackbot> Date: 03 December 2008
14:38:41 <oedipus> chair: Roland_Merrick
14:38:41 <oedipus> Regrets: Mark_Birbeck, Steven
14:38:41 <oedipus> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Dec/0001.html
14:38:41 <oedipus> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/11/26-xhtml-minutes.html
14:38:41 <oedipus> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita
(Scribe set to Gregory Rosmaita)
14:38:42 <oedipus> ScribeNick: oedipus
14:38:52 <oedipus> Agenda Planning Tracker: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/agenda
Agenda Planning Tracker: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/agenda ←
14:38:57 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
14:38:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/03-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/03-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
14:43:12 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has now started ←
14:43:19 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita
Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita ←
14:43:53 <Zakim> +Roland
Zakim IRC Bot: +Roland ←
14:44:37 <Zakim> +ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←
14:45:07 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
14:45:15 <Zakim> -ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←
14:45:27 <ShaneM> bluetooth problems mbe omp
Shane McCarron: bluetooth problems mbe omp ←
14:45:37 <oedipus> zakim, ??P3 is Markus_Gylling
zakim, ??P3 is Markus_Gylling ←
14:45:37 <Zakim> +Markus_Gylling; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Markus_Gylling; got it ←
14:46:05 <Zakim> +ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←
14:46:13 <oedipus> TOPIC: Announcements, News, Hot Topics, Agenda Review
14:46:23 <oedipus> Agenda Planning Tracker: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/agenda
Agenda Planning Tracker: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/agenda ←
14:46:58 <Zakim> -ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←
14:47:08 <ShaneM> low tech crap
Shane McCarron: having difficulties with headset ←
14:47:21 <Zakim> +ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←
14:48:39 <oedipus> RM: brief update on CURIE syntax - had transition call yesterday, got ok to transition, still paperwork to be done, should move forward
Roland Merrick: brief update on CURIE syntax - had transition call yesterday, got ok to transition, still paperwork to be done, should move forward ←
14:48:44 <oedipus> TOPIC: Oustanding Actions - http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/open
14:49:25 <oedipus> RM: XML Events haven't done; DOM discussed yesterday - will include action 40 in status update for HTC
Roland Merrick: XML Events 2 haven't done; DOM discussed yesterday - will include ACTION-40 in status update for HTC ←
14:49:39 <oedipus> s/XML Events/XML Events 2
14:50:03 <oedipus> RM: features document?
Roland Merrick: features document? ←
14:50:13 <oedipus> SM: none are completed unless marked "pending review"
Shane McCarron: none are completed unless marked "pending review" ←
14:50:33 <oedipus> RM: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/11 - policy statement on migration and inclusion
Roland Merrick: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/11 - policy statement on migration and inclusion ←
14:50:48 <oedipus> SM: started to do, but could decide where to put
Shane McCarron: started to do, but could decide where to put ←
14:50:54 <oedipus> RM: isn't there another action for that
Roland Merrick: isn't there another action for that ←
14:51:04 <oedipus> RM: close action 11
Roland Merrick: close ACTION-11 ←
14:51:24 <oedipus> RM: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/18 - changes in Mime document
Roland Merrick: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/18 - changes in Mime document ←
14:51:50 <oedipus> RM: substantive note from Tina - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0032.html
Roland Merrick: substantive note from Tina - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0032.html ←
14:52:08 <oedipus> SM: would rather do when tina here
Shane McCarron: would rather do when tina here ←
14:52:21 <oedipus> RM: if no tina at meeting, please respond on-list
Roland Merrick: if no tina at meeting, please respond on-list ←
14:52:27 <oedipus> RM: action 18 should be closed
Roland Merrick: ACTION-18 should be closed ←
14:52:46 <oedipus> RM: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/33 - should be closed
Roland Merrick: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/actions/33 - should be closed ←
14:53:17 <oedipus> RESOLVED: Actions 11, 13 and 18 are closed
RESOLVED: Actions 11, 13 and 18 are closed ←
14:53:47 <oedipus> RM: action 13 might be worth some discussion
Roland Merrick: ACTION-13 might be worth some discussion ←
14:53:56 <oedipus> SM: delegated it; will ping and update
Shane McCarron: delegated it; will ping and update ←
14:54:13 <oedipus> RM: action 15 - not have separate implements module - fold into XHTML2 - is that correct?
Roland Merrick: ACTION-15 - not have separate implements module - fold into XHTML2 - is that correct? ←
14:54:22 <oedipus> SM: made note to that effect in action
Shane McCarron: made note to that effect in action ←
14:54:29 <oedipus> SM: leave action until finished
Shane McCarron: leave action until finished ←
14:54:54 <oedipus> RM: action item from GJR - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Dec/0000.html
Roland Merrick: action item from GJR - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Dec/0000.html ←
14:58:10 <oedipus> GJR: pf said: "The word "similar" was inserted to satisfy general requirements for HTML processing, since the Role module includes low-level processing specifics, which can't be ported to HTML5; therefore, in order to enable ARIA in HTML5 it is necessary to define low-level DOM parsing whilst still accepting same content, with same accessibility result. Of course, if one is using XHTML2 to author a document, then that author would and SHOULD use the Role Module
Gregory Rosmaita: pf said: "The word "similar" was inserted to satisfy general requirements for HTML processing, since the Role module includes low-level processing specifics, which can't be ported to HTML5; therefore, in order to enable ARIA in HTML5 it is necessary to define low-level DOM parsing whilst still accepting same content, with same accessibility result. Of course, if one is using XHTML2 to author a document, then that author would and SHOULD use the Role Module ←
14:58:30 <oedipus> RM: all ARIA attributes can be used without prefix; defined for us and in XHTML vocab
Roland Merrick: all ARIA attributes can be used without prefix; defined for us and in XHTML vocab ←
14:58:42 <oedipus> RM: for ARIA terms there is no namespaced vocabulary
Roland Merrick: for ARIA terms there is no namespaced vocabulary ←
14:59:05 <oedipus> GJR: agree with RM, think that PF punted
Gregory Rosmaita: agree with RM, think that PF punted ←
14:59:13 <oedipus> SM: don't know what is going to be in HTML5
Shane McCarron: don't know what is going to be in HTML5 ←
14:59:22 <oedipus> GJR: HTML5 e.t.a. is 2012 at earliest
Gregory Rosmaita: HTML5 e.t.a. is 2012 at earliest ←
14:59:39 <oedipus> RM: carry on and ignore -- given WAI everything asked for; shouldn't waste our cycles on this
Roland Merrick: carry on and ignore -- given WAI everything asked for; shouldn't waste our cycles on this ←
15:00:04 <oedipus> RM: de facto implementation of HTML5 by developers
Roland Merrick: de facto implementation of HTML5 by developers ←
15:00:11 <oedipus> RM: happy to consider item complete
Roland Merrick: happy to consider item complete ←
15:00:23 <mib_jqd0sf> ops
Scribe problem: the name 'mib_jqd0sf' does not match any of the 23 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'mib_jqd0sf' does not match any of the 23 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Markus Gylling Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown mib_jqd0sf: ops ←
15:01:16 <oedipus> SM: during LC review, can submit formal objection because should be using Role attribute PF helped define
Shane McCarron: during LC review, can submit formal objection because should be using Role attribute PF helped define ←
15:01:21 <oedipus> GJR: would support that
Gregory Rosmaita: would support that ←
15:01:30 <Zakim> +??P4
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4 ←
15:01:31 <oedipus> RM: any other actions finished?
Roland Merrick: any other actions finished? ←
15:01:46 <oedipus> zakim, ??P4 is Alessio
zakim, ??P4 is Alessio ←
15:01:46 <Zakim> +Alessio; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Alessio; got it ←
15:01:47 <alessio> zakim, ??P4 is Alessio
Alessio Cartocci: zakim, ??P4 is Alessio ←
15:01:48 <Zakim> I already had ??P4 as Alessio, alessio
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P4 as Alessio, alessio ←
15:02:11 <oedipus> TOPIC: Access Module
15:02:17 <oedipus> RM: waiting for comments
Roland Merrick: waiting for comments ←
15:02:23 <oedipus> GJR: i18n issues?
Gregory Rosmaita: i18n issues? ←
15:02:44 <Tina> I'll send my comments on the ACCESS module by Monday
Tina Holmboe: I'll send my comments on the ACCESS module by Monday ←
15:03:16 <oedipus> SM: comment from forms; Steven brought up in Forms WG - John Boyer (chair) supposed to send us note; can live with it if multiple IDs in XForms and XHTML2 synced; thing XForms comment closed
Shane McCarron: comment from forms; Steven brought up in Forms WG - John Boyer (chair) supposed to send us note; can live with it if multiple IDs in XForms and XHTML2 synced; thing XForms comment closed ←
15:03:38 <oedipus> RM: can close XForms comment
Roland Merrick: can close XForms comment ←
15:04:00 <oedipus> RM: action 35 is complete
Roland Merrick: ACTION-35 is complete ←
15:04:46 <oedipus> SM: everything regards Access closed out; implementation report and disposition of comments all ready; need to wait until CURIEs reaches CR for this to reach CR because references CURIE
Shane McCarron: everything regards Access closed out; implementation report and disposition of comments all ready; need to wait until CURIEs reaches CR for this to reach CR because references CURIE ←
15:04:50 <oedipus> RM: same with Role?
Roland Merrick: same with Role? ←
15:05:04 <oedipus> SM: yes, not certain if SP has sent in transition request for the 3
Shane McCarron: yes, not certain if SP has sent in transition request for the 3 ←
15:05:10 <oedipus> RM: haven't seen them
Roland Merrick: haven't seen them ←
15:05:19 <oedipus> RM: resolved to request CR Transition [http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html#item06]
Roland Merrick: resolved to request CR Transition [http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html#item06] ←
15:05:29 <oedipus> TOPIC: XML Events 2: status?
15:05:29 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xml-events2
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xml-events2 ←
15:05:29 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0018.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0018.html ←
15:05:51 <oedipus> RM: discussed last week - going back to DOM2 - have to inspect DOM2 spec - anyone done that?
Roland Merrick: discussed last week - going back to DOM2 - have to inspect DOM2 spec - anyone done that? ←
15:05:54 <oedipus> SM: no
Shane McCarron: no ←
15:05:55 <oedipus> GJR: no
Gregory Rosmaita: no ←
15:06:11 <oedipus> TOPIC: XHTML MIME type: Status?
15:06:11 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xhtmlmime
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xhtmlmime ←
15:06:38 <oedipus> RM: need to get done for XHTML 1.0 SE and 1.1 PER will point to that
Roland Merrick: need to get done for XHTML 1.0 SE and 1.1 PER will point to that ←
15:06:55 <oedipus> SM: issue: XML 1.0 Fifth Edition became a rec yesterday
Shane McCarron: issue: XML 1.0 Fifth Edition became a rec yesterday ←
15:08:11 <oedipus> SM: changes rules / definition of ID - changes what chars are legal in ID; historically have just transitioned to current version of XML (any recs we put out use current XML edition), but what are rammifications of changing @id to make more inclusive - with our documents, some point to fourth edition, some to fifth
Shane McCarron: changes rules / definition of ID - changes what chars are legal in ID; historically have just transitioned to current version of XML (any recs we put out use current XML edition), but what are rammifications of changing @id to make more inclusive - with our documents, some point to fourth edition, some to fifth ←
15:08:28 <oedipus> RM: reads errata for fourth edition
Roland Merrick: reads errata for fourth edition ←
15:08:29 <mgylling> Before the fifth edition, XML 1.0 was explicitly based on Unicode 2.0. As of the fifth edition, it is based on Unicode 5.0.0 or later. This effectively allows not only characters used today, but also characters that will be used tomorrow.
Markus Gylling: Before the fifth edition, XML 1.0 was explicitly based on Unicode 2.0. As of the fifth edition, it is based on Unicode 5.0.0 or later. This effectively allows not only characters used today, but also characters that will be used tomorrow. ←
15:08:46 <oedipus> RM: due to unicode changes?
Roland Merrick: due to unicode changes? ←
15:09:27 <oedipus> SM: previously malformed documents now ok; invalid documents now valid -- don't understand
Shane McCarron: previously malformed documents now ok; invalid documents now valid -- don't understand ←
15:09:36 <oedipus> RM: main characters has changed
Roland Merrick: main characters has changed ←
15:09:46 <mgylling> http://blog.jclark.com/2008/10/xml-10-5th-edition.html
Markus Gylling: http://blog.jclark.com/2008/10/xml-10-5th-edition.html ←
15:10:00 <oedipus> MG: there is a blog entry from James Clark explaining why he thinks fifth edition broken - was controversial
Markus Gylling: there is a blog entry from James Clark explaining why he thinks fifth edition broken - was controversial ←
15:10:35 <oedipus> SM: jame's blog is exactly what i thought/concluded
Shane McCarron: jame's blog is exactly what i thought/concluded ←
15:11:16 <oedipus> SM: good news (sort of) - always made dated references to 1.0 (reference edition numbers); we are dependent upon namespaces, and they are not referenced
Shane McCarron: good news (sort of) - always made dated references to 1.0 (reference edition numbers); we are dependent upon namespaces, and they are not referenced ←
15:11:32 <oedipus> SM: don't understand rammifications, but they keep me awake at night
Shane McCarron: don't understand rammifications, but they keep me awake at night ←
15:11:57 <oedipus> RM: if stay with Fourth Edition, and say that those in Fifth Edition are ok, but a SUB-SET of those in Fourth Edition
Roland Merrick: if stay with Fourth Edition, and say that those in Fifth Edition are ok, but a SUB-SET of those in Fourth Edition ←
15:12:05 <oedipus> SM: hope change is forward compatible
Shane McCarron: hope change is forward compatible ←
15:12:21 <oedipus> RM: should leave the pointer alone for XML Fourth Edition
Roland Merrick: should leave the pointer alone for XML Fourth Edition ←
15:12:39 <oedipus> RM: if get through PR review and asked why not Fifth, we say "prove to us won't cause problems"
Roland Merrick: if get through PR review and asked why not Fifth, we say "prove to us won't cause problems" ←
15:12:41 <oedipus> SM: reasonable
Shane McCarron: reasonable ←
15:12:44 <oedipus> GJR: plus 1
Gregory Rosmaita: plus 1 ←
15:13:12 <alessio> +1
Alessio Cartocci: +1 ←
15:13:40 <oedipus> RM: keep status quo: publish our specs pointing to XML 1.0 Fourth Edition, until becomes an issue, if becomes and issue
Roland Merrick: keep status quo: publish our specs pointing to XML 1.0 Fourth Edition, until becomes an issue, if becomes and issue ←
15:14:00 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0018.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0018.html ←
15:14:09 <Roland> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0032.html
Roland Merrick: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0032.html ←
15:14:18 <oedipus> SM: major change is unicode related
Shane McCarron: major change is unicode related ←
15:14:31 <oedipus> TOPIC: Notes from Tina on XHTML Mime
15:14:52 <oedipus> RM: same mistakes i had found
Roland Merrick: same mistakes i had found ←
15:15:02 <oedipus> SM: fixed broken internal links
Shane McCarron: fixed broken internal links ←
15:15:40 <oedipus> SM: compatibility guidelines: i know what problem i was trying to solve with sentence in question: remind validation people at W3C that shouldn't validate against this
Shane McCarron: compatibility guidelines: i know what problem i was trying to solve with sentence in question: remind validation people at W3C that shouldn't validate against this ←
15:16:02 <oedipus> RM: could be useful to remind of constraints
Roland Merrick: could be useful to remind of constraints ←
15:16:56 <alessio> for tina and all... I write a note (in italian) on IWA Italy's blog related to tina's article: http://blog.iwa.it/varie/xhtml-basta-con-la-mitologia/
Alessio Cartocci: for tina and all... I write a note (in italian) on IWA Italy's blog related to tina's article: http://blog.iwa.it/varie/xhtml-basta-con-la-mitologia/ ←
15:17:01 <oedipus> SM: don't like suggested wording: is a non-sequitor
Shane McCarron: don't like suggested wording: is a non-sequitor ←
15:17:30 <oedipus> SM: "TOPIC: XHTML MIME type: Status?
Shane McCarron: "TOPIC: XHTML MIME type: Status? ←
15:17:30 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xhtmlmime
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/#xhtmlmime ←
15:17:57 <oedipus> Tina's comment: ""It contains no absolute requirements, and should NEVER be used as
Tina's comment: ""It contains no absolute requirements, and should NEVER be used as ←
15:17:57 <oedipus> the basis for creating conformance nor validation rules of any sort.
the basis for creating conformance nor validation rules of any sort. ←
15:17:57 <oedipus> Period.""
Period."" ←
15:18:17 <oedipus> RM: constraint over and above language definition; could write style guide
Roland Merrick: constraint over and above language definition; could write style guide ←
15:18:30 <oedipus> RM: replace paragraph with something less dogmatic
Roland Merrick: replace paragraph with something less dogmatic ←
15:18:52 <oedipus> SM: accept suggestion for example 3 - don't use P
Shane McCarron: accept suggestion for example 3 - don't use P ←
15:19:23 <oedipus> RM: "A.4. Embedded Style Sheets and Scripts
Roland Merrick: "A.4. Embedded Style Sheets and Scripts ←
15:19:58 <oedipus> RM: didn't we originally say to avoid inline style and scripts?
Roland Merrick: didn't we originally say to avoid inline style and scripts? ←
15:20:08 <oedipus> SM: she's attempting to make more assertive, i believe
Shane McCarron: she's attempting to make more assertive, i believe ←
15:20:28 <oedipus> SM: trying to explain why suggested trick for embedding works
Shane McCarron: trying to explain why suggested trick for embedding works ←
15:20:35 <oedipus> SM: we can explain that
Shane McCarron: we can explain that ←
15:20:46 <oedipus> RM: make clear that is explanation; don't have to if don't want to
Roland Merrick: make clear that is explanation; don't have to if don't want to ←
15:20:51 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:20:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/03-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/03-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:21:40 <oedipus> SM: A.5 - generic advice; i think has to do with XML versus HTML
Shane McCarron: A.5 - generic advice; i think has to do with XML versus HTML ←
15:22:01 <oedipus> "This sounds like generic advice for writing markup, rather then something relevant to the differences between XHTML and HTML. I could be mistaken and would welcome pointers to the relevant parts of the specifications if so."
"This sounds like generic advice for writing markup, rather then something relevant to the differences between XHTML and HTML. I could be mistaken and would welcome pointers to the relevant parts of the specifications if so." ←
15:22:32 <oedipus> RM: might be useful if each of these assertions in A.5 are linked
Roland Merrick: might be useful if each of these assertions in A.5 are linked ←
15:22:34 <oedipus> SM: they are
Shane McCarron: they are ←
15:22:38 <oedipus> RM: don't show in ToC
Roland Merrick: don't show in ToC ←
15:22:44 <oedipus> SM: no don't show in ToC
Shane McCarron: no don't show in ToC ←
15:23:22 <oedipus> RM: linebreak attribute values
Roland Merrick: linebreak attribute values ←
15:23:34 <oedipus> SM: in XML attribute values are ...
Shane McCarron: in XML attribute values are ... ←
15:23:40 <oedipus> MG: whitespace neutralized?
Markus Gylling: whitespace neutralized? ←
15:23:44 <oedipus> SM: yes
Shane McCarron: yes ←
15:23:58 <oedipus> RM: isn't that part of rationale? ensure on single line isn't bad advice
Roland Merrick: isn't that part of rationale? ensure on single line isn't bad advice ←
15:24:21 <oedipus> SM: don't remember why did in first place - tina wants rationale - thought had to do with whitespace normalization
Shane McCarron: don't remember why did in first place - tina wants rationale - thought had to do with whitespace normalization ←
15:24:33 <mgylling> If the attribute type is not CDATA, then the XML processor MUST further process the normalized attribute value by discarding any leading and trailing space (#x20) characters, and by replacing sequences of space (#x20) characters by a single space (#x20) character.
Markus Gylling: If the attribute type is not CDATA, then the XML processor MUST further process the normalized attribute value by discarding any leading and trailing space (#x20) characters, and by replacing sequences of space (#x20) characters by a single space (#x20) character. ←
15:24:38 <oedipus> MG: section 3.3.3 of XML spec
Markus Gylling: section 3.3.3 of XML spec ←
15:25:06 <oedipus> MG: depends on type of attribute; if not CDATA discusses discarding leading and trailing space
Markus Gylling: depends on type of attribute; if not CDATA discusses discarding leading and trailing space ←
15:25:11 <oedipus> RM: option for class as well?
Roland Merrick: option for collapse as well? ←
15:25:20 <oedipus> s/class/collapse
15:26:07 <oedipus> MG: 3.3.3 says replace XML def of whitespace by single space only; linebreaks "normalized" to single space, leading or trailing
Markus Gylling: 3.3.3 says replace XML def of whitespace by single space only; linebreaks "normalized" to single space, leading or trailing ←
15:26:20 <oedipus> SM: section 2.1.1 on end of line handling
Shane McCarron: section 2.1.1 on end of line handling ←
15:26:35 <oedipus> SM: end of lines normalized even if inside attribute value
Shane McCarron: end of lines normalized even if inside attribute value ←
15:26:46 <oedipus> SM: turns linefeeds into spaces
Shane McCarron: turns linefeeds into spaces ←
15:27:24 <oedipus> RM: read section 3.3.3 and 2.1.1 and best to avoid those situations since don't know what non-XML parsers would do
Roland Merrick: read section 3.3.3 and 2.1.1 and best to avoid those situations since don't know what non-XML parsers would do ←
15:27:47 <oedipus> RM: A.11 - "Perhaps an example showing how to convert to lower case before checking would help clarify this for some people?"
Roland Merrick: A.11 - "Perhaps an example showing how to convert to lower case before checking would help clarify this for some people?" ←
15:28:00 <oedipus> SM: do ensure that attribute names ... are case insensitive
Shane McCarron: do ensure that attribute names ... are case insensitive ←
15:28:20 <oedipus> SM: can show people how to call to lower
Shane McCarron: can show people how to call to lower ←
15:28:26 <oedipus> RM: ok
Roland Merrick: ok ←
15:28:39 <oedipus> SM: A.25 - i know answer and will send it to her
Shane McCarron: A.25 - i know answer and will send it to her ←
15:29:24 <oedipus> SM: A.26. - "to justify removing accessiblity feature..." -- we aren't removing, we are telling people not to do it -- same problem as NOSCRIPT
Shane McCarron: A.26. - "to justify removing accessiblity feature..." -- we aren't removing, we are telling people not to do it -- same problem as NOSCRIPT ←
15:29:36 <oedipus> RM: deal with NOSCRIPT in whatever answer you send to tina
Roland Merrick: deal with NOSCRIPT in whatever answer you send to tina ←
15:30:15 <oedipus> SM: Example Document concerns: good point about style element (no bad stuff to escape) - rather than remove CDATA markers, should put bad stuff in
Shane McCarron: Example Document concerns: good point about style element (no bad stuff to escape) - rather than remove CDATA markers, should put bad stuff in ←
15:30:28 <oedipus> SM: final comment - grouping selector -
Shane McCarron: final comment - grouping selector - ←
15:30:55 <oedipus> RM: because HTML and BODY elements are identical, can define style once using "html,body { }"
Roland Merrick: because HTML and BODY elements are identical, can define style once using "html,body { }" ←
15:30:56 <Roland> html, body {background-color: #e4e5e9; }
Roland Merrick: html, body {background-color: #e4e5e9; } ←
15:31:31 <oedipus> RM: list, not heirarchy
Roland Merrick: list, not heirarchy ←
15:31:33 <oedipus> SM: right
Shane McCarron: right ←
15:32:26 <oedipus> SM: have bunch of changes to make - between last publication and now, pub rules have changed for Notes - additional reqs on Note we need to satisfy; will make process changes along with changes stemming from tina and our discussion of it
Shane McCarron: have bunch of changes to make - between last publication and now, pub rules have changed for Notes - additional reqs on Note we need to satisfy; will make process changes along with changes stemming from tina and our discussion of it ←
15:32:33 <oedipus> RM: use of ABBR or ACRONYM
Roland Merrick: use of ABBR or ACRONYM ←
15:32:45 <oedipus> GJR: have proposed INIT (initialism)
Gregory Rosmaita: have proposed INIT (initialism) ←
15:33:07 <oedipus> SM: will fold in WG's response to Tina's comments into Mime today along with other pub-related stuff
Shane McCarron: will fold in WG's response to Tina's comments into Mime today along with other pub-related stuff ←
15:33:13 <oedipus> TOPIC: XHTML2
15:33:57 <oedipus> RM: question on "do we need nl?" - motivation, wanted navigation, but maybe use "nav" as a section - more than list - complete block, like a section
Roland Merrick: question on "do we need nl?" - motivation, wanted navigation, but maybe use "nav" as a section - more than list - complete block, like a section ←
15:34:10 <oedipus> GJR: similar to Role/ARIA concept of "nav"
Gregory Rosmaita: similar to Role/ARIA concept of "nav" ←
15:34:48 <oedipus> RM: yes, big major area, not just detail, but block of navigational options
Roland Merrick: yes, big major area, not just detail, but block of navigational options ←
15:35:02 <oedipus> RM: look at way NAV is defined when return to question:
Roland Merrick: look at way NAV is defined when return to question: ←
15:35:19 <oedipus> RM: would nav obviate need for NL via specialized container
Roland Merrick: would nav obviate need for NL via specialized container ←
15:35:31 <oedipus> SM: had action to send out conversation starter
Shane McCarron: had action to send out conversation starter ←
15:35:48 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0015.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Nov/0015.html ←
15:36:36 <oedipus> RM: ol role="nav" versus nl - will reply and through into mix that this is bigger question: NAV as structural element; will kick off conversation by replying to shane's note
Roland Merrick: ol role="nav" versus nl - will reply and through into mix that this is bigger question: NAV as structural element; will kick off conversation by replying to shane's note ←
15:37:08 <Tina> I have a half-finished reply to Shane's conversation starter
Tina Holmboe: I have a half-finished reply to Shane's conversation starter ←
15:37:16 <oedipus> SM: point i was trying to make is have diff mechanisms to satisfy diff needs; should think about needs
Shane McCarron: point i was trying to make is have diff mechanisms to satisfy diff needs; should think about needs ←
15:37:27 <oedipus> GJR: positive "yes!" reaction to shane's post
Gregory Rosmaita: positive "yes!" reaction to shane's post ←
15:37:37 <oedipus> ADJOURN
ADJOURN ←
15:37:44 <Zakim> -Markus_Gylling
Zakim IRC Bot: -Markus_Gylling ←
15:37:45 <Zakim> -ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←
15:37:46 <Zakim> -Roland
Zakim IRC Bot: -Roland ←
15:37:47 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita
Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita ←
15:37:49 <Zakim> -Alessio
Zakim IRC Bot: -Alessio ←
15:37:50 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended ←
15:37:51 <Zakim> Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Roland, ShaneM, Markus_Gylling, Alessio
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Roland, ShaneM, Markus_Gylling, Alessio ←
15:37:59 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:37:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/03-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/03-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:41:06 <oedipus> present+ Tina_on_IRC
present+ Tina_on_IRC ←
15:41:13 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:41:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/03-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/03-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:43:01 <oedipus> s/low tech crap/having difficulties with headset
15:43:04 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes
rrsagent, make minutes ←
15:43:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/03-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/03-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←
15:51:04 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part
(No events recorded for 8 minutes)
rrsagent, please part ←
15:51:04 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
Formatted by CommonScribe