Meeting Record

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06:56:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-irc ←

06:57:36 <rmerric> rmerric has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/2008-10-FtF-Agenda#Thursday:_2008-10-23

Roland Merrick: rmerric has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/2008-10-FtF-Agenda#Thursday:_2008-10-23 ←

06:57:45 <rmerric> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/xhtml2/wiki/2008-10-FtF-Agenda#Thursday:_2008-10-23

06:58:31 <oeddie> rrsagent, set logs world-visible

Gregory Rosmaita: rrsagent, set logs world-visible ←

06:58:41 <oeddie> chair: Roland_Merrick

06:59:00 <oeddie> scribe: Gregory_Rosmaita

(Scribe set to Gregory Rosmaita)

06:59:07 <oeddie> ScribeNick: oeddie

06:59:12 <Steven> zakim, code?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, code? ←

06:59:12 <Zakim> sorry, Steven, I don't know what conference this is

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Steven, I don't know what conference this is ←

06:59:23 <Steven> zakim, this will be xhtml

Steven Pemberton: zakim, this will be xhtml ←

06:59:23 <Zakim> ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()3:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()3:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute ←

06:59:33 <Steven> rrsagent, pointer?

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, pointer? ←

06:59:33 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-irc#T06-59-33

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-irc#T06-59-33 ←

06:59:55 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

06:59:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie ←

07:00:00 <ShaneM> zakim, code?

Shane McCarron: zakim, code? ←

07:00:00 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), ShaneM ←

07:00:32 <Steven> changed your nick Gregorie?

Steven Pemberton: changed your nick Gregory? ←

07:00:40 <Steven> s/ie/y/

07:00:42 <oeddie> i'm on my laptop

i'm on my laptop ←

07:01:18 <oeddie> on my main machine i'm oedipus, on my laptop, oeddie, and sometimes on my linux box, i'm gregor_samsa

on my main machine i'm oedipus, on my laptop, oeddie, and sometimes on my linux box, i'm gregor_samsa ←

07:01:37 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has now started ←

07:01:38 <oeddie> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-xhtml-minutes.html

07:01:38 <Zakim> +Cannes

Zakim IRC Bot: +Cannes ←

07:02:22 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←

07:02:22 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

07:02:23 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←

07:03:13 <Steven> Scribe: Steven

(Scribe set to Steven Pemberton)

07:03:13 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita ←

07:03:38 <oeddie> regrets: Tina

07:03:45 <oeddie> regrets: Alessio

07:03:58 <oeddie> regrets+ Tina

Gregory Rosmaita: regrets+ Tina ←

07:03:58 <Steven> regrets+Tina

regrets+Tina ←

07:04:03 <Steven> :-)

:-) ←

07:05:51 <Roland_> rrsagent, make minutes

Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make minutes ←

07:05:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html Roland_

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html Roland_ ←

07:07:23 <Roland_> Meeting: XHTML Working Group face2face

07:08:13 <oeddie> TOPIC: Intos

1. Intros

07:08:27 <oeddie> RM: Roland Merrick, chair, work for IBM

Roland Merrick: Roland Merrick, chair, work for IBM [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ] ←

07:08:53 <oeddie> JG: Jeff Gerald, observer

Scribe problem: the name 'JG' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown JG: Jeff Gerald, observer [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Rosmaita ] ←

07:08:58 <Steven> Present: Roland, Uli, Klaus, Alan Hauser, Gerald Edger, Nick vd Bleeker, Steven

Scribe problem: the name 'Uli' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami

Scribe problem: the name 'Klaus' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami

Scribe problem: the name 'Alan Hauser' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami

Scribe problem: the name 'Jeff Gerald' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami

Scribe problem: the name 'Nick vd Bleeker' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami

07:09:09 <Steven> Present+Shane, Gregory

Present+Shane, Gregory ←

07:09:17 <oeddie> SP: work for CWI/W3C, co-chair of this group and staff contact for many others

Scribe problem: the name 'oeddie' does not match any of the 10 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Roland Merrick Unknown Uli Unknown Klaus Unknown Hauser Unknown Gerald Unknown Bleeker Steven Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Steven Pemberton: work for CWI/W3C, co-chair of this group and staff contact for many others [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oeddie ] ←

07:09:29 <oeddie> NVB: observer, member of Forms WG

Scribe problem: the name 'NVB' does not match any of the 10 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Roland Merrick Unknown Uli Unknown Klaus Unknown Hauser Unknown Gerald Unknown Bleeker Steven Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown NVB: observer, member of Forms WG [ Scribe Assist by Unknown oeddie ] ←

07:09:46 <Steven> s/Gerald Edger/Jeff Gerald

07:09:53 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes

Unknown oeddie: rrsagent, make minutes ←

07:09:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie ←

07:10:06 <oeddie> TOPIC: Agenda Review

2. Agenda Review

07:11:06 <Steven> Scribenick: oeddie

(Scribe set to Unknown oeddie)

07:11:12 <oeddie> RM: bunch of docs to reveiw to ensure ready for CR -- spend as long as it takes to get them to final stage

Roland Merrick: bunch of docs to reveiw to ensure ready for CR -- spend as long as it takes to get them to final stage ←

07:11:33 <oeddie> RM: old actions in agenda -- go through and clean out and migrate to trackbot those that need further consideration

Roland Merrick: old actions in agenda -- go through and clean out and migrate to trackbot those that need further consideration ←

07:12:08 <oeddie> RM: this afternoon: script: feature, what it means to refer to a feature

Roland Merrick: this afternoon: script: feature, what it means to refer to a feature ←

07:12:43 <oeddie> SP: good session at TPAC yesterday on this topic; TBL proposed standard way to record in namespace document which javascript implements this namespace so wouldn't need script line in doc source

Steven Pemberton: good session at TPAC yesterday on this topic; TBL proposed standard way to record in namespace document which javascript implements this namespace so wouldn't need script line in doc source ←

07:12:58 <oeddie> RM: XHTML 1.2 discussion - what makes the cut into that

Roland Merrick: XHTML 1.2 discussion - what makes the cut into that ←

07:13:44 <oeddie> RM: tomorrow: close off Forms issues ; moving forward on XHTMLMime document, how to get XHTML to work in UAs not optimized for XHTML, then get back to XHTML2 - what to do with it

Roland Merrick: tomorrow: close off Forms issues ; moving forward on XHTMLMime document, how to get XHTML to work in UAs not optimized for XHTML, then get back to XHTML2 - what to do with it ←

07:13:59 <oeddie> TOPIC: Documents Prepared for CR

3. Documents Prepared for CR

07:14:10 <oeddie> RM: Shane did a very good job upsating them all

Roland Merrick: Shane did a very good job upsating them all ←

07:15:11 <oeddie> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Drafts/ ←

07:15:16 <oeddie> SM: start with CURIEs

Scribe problem: the name 'SM' does not match any of the 10 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Roland Merrick Unknown Uli Unknown Klaus Unknown Hauser Unknown Gerald Unknown Bleeker Steven Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown SM: start with CURIEs ←

07:15:32 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Oct/0024.html

Steven Pemberton: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Oct/0024.html ←

07:15:38 <oeddie> CURIEs latest draft (18 october 2008) - http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081018

CURIEs latest draft (18 october 2008) - http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081018 ←

07:15:39 <Roland_> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081018/

Roland Merrick: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081018/ ←

07:16:30 <oeddie> SM: this draft, along with Access and Role Modules, say in prose they are CR - they are not, but used CSS to mark that;

Unknown SM: this draft, along with Access and Role Modules, say in prose they are CR - they are not, but used CSS to mark that; ←

07:16:43 <oeddie> SM: received number of comments over past year from variety of sources

Unknown SM: received number of comments over past year from variety of sources ←

07:17:40 <oeddie> RM: LC in May -- received some comments, extended period for TAG; received formal comments from TAG, replied, have not formally stated they are satisfiedwith what we did --- TAG meeting now, hopefully on their agenda

Roland Merrick: LC in May -- received some comments, extended period for TAG; received formal comments from TAG, replied, have not formally stated they are satisfiedwith what we did --- TAG meeting now, hopefully on their agenda ←

07:18:05 <oeddie> SM: couple of issues in CURIE annotaed with 4 @ signs:

Unknown SM: couple of issues in CURIE annotaed with 4 @ signs: ←

07:18:48 <oeddie> SM: namespace specifications and jeremy's request for prefix; my opinion is that it is not needed or necessary

Unknown SM: namespace specifications and jeremy's request for prefix; my opinion is that it is not needed or necessary ←

07:19:28 <oeddie> SP: not prefix for CURIEs, but use XMLNS to define; if lang uses diff prefix mechanism, ok to use on that start with x m l, but good thing to warn off people from using this

Steven Pemberton: not prefix for CURIEs, but use XMLNS to define; if lang uses diff prefix mechanism, ok to use on that start with x m l, but good thing to warn off people from using this ←

07:20:15 <oeddie> SM: question for group - questions or concerns about what SP just read

Unknown SM: question for group - questions or concerns about what SP just read ←

07:22:04 <oeddie> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081018/#s_syntax

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081018/#s_syntax ←

07:22:48 <oeddie> quote from 18 October draft: "When CURIES are used in an XML-based host language, and that host language supports XML Namespaces, prefix values MUST be able to be defined using the 'xmlns:' syntax specified in [XMLNAMES]. Such host languages MAY also provide additional prefix mapping definition mechanisms.

quote from 18 October draft: "When CURIES are used in an XML-based host language, and that host language supports XML Namespaces, prefix values MUST be able to be defined using the 'xmlns:' syntax specified in [XMLNAMES]. Such host languages MAY also provide additional prefix mapping definition mechanisms. ←

07:22:48 <oeddie> @@@@The XML Namespaces specification states that prefix names are not permitted to begin with the characters 'xml' (see Leading XML). While this specification does not impose such a restriction, when CURIEs are used in an XML language this restriction is effectively inherited from XML Namespaces. If such a language defines an additional mechanism for defining prefixes, that mechanism SHOULD impose a similar restriction so there is no possibility of conflict betw

@@@@The XML Namespaces specification states that prefix names are not permitted to begin with the characters 'xml' (see Leading XML). While this specification does not impose such a restriction, when CURIEs are used in an XML language this restriction is effectively inherited from XML Namespaces. If such a language defines an additional mechanism for defining prefixes, that mechanism SHOULD impose a similar restriction so there is no possibility of conflict betw ←

07:22:49 <oeddie> When CURIES are used in a non-XML host language, the host language MUST provide a mechanism for defining the mapping from the prefix to an IRI.

When CURIES are used in a non-XML host language, the host language MUST provide a mechanism for defining the mapping from the prefix to an IRI. ←

07:22:52 <oeddie> A host language MAY interpret a reference value that is not preceded by a prefix and a colon as being a member of a host-language defined set of reserved values. Such reserved values MUST translate into an IRI, just as with any other CURIE.

A host language MAY interpret a reference value that is not preceded by a prefix and a colon as being a member of a host-language defined set of reserved values. Such reserved values MUST translate into an IRI, just as with any other CURIE. ←

07:22:56 <oeddie> A host language MAY declare a default prefix value, or MAY provide a mechanism for defining a default prefix value. This default prefix value MAY be different than the language's default namespace. In such a host language, when the prefix is omitted from a CURIE, the default prefix value MUST be used. Conversely, if such a language does not define a default prefix value mechanism and does not define a set of reserved values, CURIEs MUST NOT be used without a lea

A host language MAY declare a default prefix value, or MAY provide a mechanism for defining a default prefix value. This default prefix value MAY be different than the language's default namespace. In such a host language, when the prefix is omitted from a CURIE, the default prefix value MUST be used. Conversely, if such a language does not define a default prefix value mechanism and does not define a set of reserved values, CURIEs MUST NOT be used without a lea ←

07:23:41 <oeddie> RM: sounds reasonable to me

Roland Merrick: sounds reasonable to me ←

07:23:46 <oeddie> SP: me too, gets message over

Steven Pemberton: me too, gets message over ←

07:23:49 <oeddie> GJR: plus 1

Scribe problem: the name 'GJR' does not match any of the 10 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Roland Merrick Unknown Uli Unknown Klaus Unknown Hauser Unknown Gerald Unknown Bleeker Steven Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown GJR: plus 1 ←

07:24:03 <oeddie> SM: next is also in this section "Syntax"

Unknown SM: next is also in this section "Syntax" ←

07:24:09 <oeddie> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081018/#s_syntax

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081018/#s_syntax ←

07:24:30 <oeddie> SP: reads from draft

Steven Pemberton: reads from draft ←

07:24:45 <oeddie> SM: only added because continuing source of confusion for intelligent people

Unknown SM: only added because continuing source of confusion for intelligent people ←

07:25:10 <oeddie> SP: should not be used as default namespace for curies, because default namespace...

Steven Pemberton: should not be used as default namespace for curies, because default namespace... ←

07:25:14 <oeddie> SM: good addition

Unknown SM: good addition ←

07:25:24 <oeddie> SM: should note be in separate paragraph

Unknown SM: should note be in separate paragraph ←

07:25:41 <oeddie> SP: separate, and change SHOULD NOT to MUST NOT

Steven Pemberton: separate, and change SHOULD NOT to MUST NOT ←

07:25:48 <oeddie> SM: in which case it is not a note

Unknown SM: in which case it is not a note ←

07:25:57 <oeddie> GJR: fine by me too  - plus 1

Unknown GJR: fine by me too - plus 1 ←

07:26:12 <oeddie> SM: "MUST NOT used as default..."

Unknown SM: "MUST NOT used as default..." ←

07:26:49 <oeddie> SM: those who like low-level specs as flexible as possible may not like this

Unknown SM: those who like low-level specs as flexible as possible may not like this ←

07:27:29 <oeddie> RM: SHOULD NOT suggests may do anyway

Roland Merrick: SHOULD NOT suggests may do anyway ←

07:27:41 <oeddie> GJR: SHOULD NOT allows if "compelling reason"

Unknown GJR: SHOULD NOT allows if "compelling reason" ←

07:27:59 <oeddie> RM: allowed an opt-out to do what can no longer do

Roland Merrick: allowed an opt-out to do what can no longer do ←

07:28:19 <oeddie> SM: stopped people using xml default namespace as CURIE default prefix, which i like

Unknown SM: stopped people using xml default namespace as CURIE default prefix, which i like ←

07:28:42 <oeddie> GJR: agree that should be -- er, must be -- a MUST NOT

Unknown GJR: agree that should be -- er, must be -- a MUST NOT ←

07:29:12 <oeddie> SM: no compelling usecase for using default ns - all using xmlns for is to associate prefix string with IRI prefix

Unknown SM: no compelling usecase for using default ns - all using xmlns for is to associate prefix string with IRI prefix ←

07:29:20 <oeddie> SM: good suggestion Steven

Unknown SM: good suggestion Steven ←

07:29:33 <oeddie> SP: no mechanism for defining default prefix - comes from language

Steven Pemberton: no mechanism for defining default prefix - comes from language ←

07:30:15 <oeddie> SM: allow default prefix, so possible to have 2 prefixes; could have default prefix implied by CURIE with NO colon at all, and a defaullt prefix when there is a colon

Unknown SM: allow default prefix, so possible to have 2 prefixes; could have default prefix implied by CURIE with NO colon at all, and a defaullt prefix when there is a colon ←

07:30:22 <oeddie> SP: default prefix and empty prefix

Steven Pemberton: default prefix and empty prefix ←

07:30:28 <oeddie> SM: yes; reserved values conceopt

Unknown SM: yes; reserved values conceopt ←

07:30:49 <oeddie> SP: declare by fiat in XML, but don't give opportunity to change

Steven Pemberton: declare by fiat in XML, but don't give opportunity to change ←

07:30:55 <oeddie> SM: host language may do it

Unknown SM: host language may do it ←

07:31:15 <oeddie> SP: but this spec doesn't provide mechanisms for doing it; no mechanism for empty or default

Steven Pemberton: but this spec doesn't provide mechanisms for doing it; no mechanism for empty or default ←

07:31:34 <oeddie> SM: proposal from RDFa proposes changing prefix  on fly -- good idea in their case

Unknown SM: proposal from RDFa proposes changing prefix on fly -- good idea in their case ←

07:32:07 <oeddie> SP: if they are proposing method of changing default on fly, what is argument against using xmlns mechanism for doing that

Steven Pemberton: if they are proposing method of changing default on fly, what is argument against using xmlns mechanism for doing that ←

07:32:26 <oeddie> RM: trying to stop confusion and work arounds

Roland Merrick: trying to stop confusion and work arounds ←

07:33:01 <oeddie> SM: namespace of xml elements and attributes has nothing to do with prefix or default prefix associated with CURIEs in document; coupling them can't be a good idea

Unknown SM: namespace of xml elements and attributes has nothing to do with prefix or default prefix associated with CURIEs in document; coupling them can't be a good idea ←

07:33:16 <oeddie> RM: prefixed and unprifixed -- unprefixed means?

Roland Merrick: prefixed and unprifixed -- unprefixed means? ←

07:33:30 <oeddie> SM: i have to fix that - should use term "reserved value"

Unknown SM: i have to fix that - should use term "reserved value" ←

07:33:42 <oeddie> SM: would also make consistent with RDFa

Unknown SM: would also make consistent with RDFa ←

07:33:49 <oeddie> RM: that was at back of my mind

Roland Merrick: that was at back of my mind ←

07:33:59 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

07:33:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie ←

07:34:13 <oeddie> RM: are we satisfied with our new statement?

Roland Merrick: are we satisfied with our new statement? ←

07:34:18 <oeddie> SM: plus 1

Unknown SM: plus 1 ←

07:34:20 <oeddie> GJR: plus 1

Unknown GJR: plus 1 ←

07:34:29 <oeddie> RM: disagree?

Roland Merrick: disagree? ←

07:34:48 <oeddie> (no disagreement logged)

(no disagreement logged) ←

07:34:54 <oeddie> SP: only 2 diff bits of text

Steven Pemberton: only 2 diff bits of text ←

07:35:01 <oeddie> SM: yes, have to discuss exit criteria

Unknown SM: yes, have to discuss exit criteria ←

07:35:41 <oeddie> SP: basically have implementations in RDFa, so just cound number of implementations that RDFa used to get through CR; find 2 interoperable implementations and cite them

Steven Pemberton: basically have implementations in RDFa, so just cound number of implementations that RDFa used to get through CR; find 2 interoperable implementations and cite them ←

07:35:55 <oeddie> RM: just want to make sure that everything talk about in CURIEs is used in RDFa

Roland Merrick: just want to make sure that everything talk about in CURIEs is used in RDFa ←

07:36:08 <oeddie> SM: believe every feature in here is used by RDFa

Unknown SM: believe every feature in here is used by RDFa ←

07:36:37 <oeddie> RM: still want 2 interop implementations of each feature; have confidence can achieve because of RDFa implementations

Roland Merrick: still want 2 interop implementations of each feature; have confidence can achieve because of RDFa implementations ←

07:37:02 <oeddie> SM: test suite for RDFa could be adapted for CURIE test suite

Unknown SM: test suite for RDFa could be adapted for CURIE test suite ←

07:37:08 <Steven> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/

Steven Pemberton: http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/ ←

07:37:19 <oeddie> SP: can't we point to that and say this is the test suite for CURIEs as well

Steven Pemberton: can't we point to that and say this is the test suite for CURIEs as well ←

07:37:32 <oeddie> SM: building block - doesn't don anything on its own

Unknown SM: building block - doesn't don anything on its own ←

07:37:55 <oeddie> SM: Roland, datatype we defined not used in RDFa --

Unknown SM: Roland, datatype we defined not used in RDFa -- ←

07:38:10 <oeddie> SP: if click on details of example 64

Steven Pemberton: if click on details of example 64 ←

07:38:33 <oeddie> SM: think safe to leave - hybrid datatype - so i don't think is a big deal/obstacle

Unknown SM: think safe to leave - hybrid datatype - so i don't think is a big deal/obstacle ←

07:39:31 <oeddie> SM: where might run into trouble is old issue of value space versus lexical space will continue to come up and problem may be that people who raise issue speak diff laguage than we do; talking past each other; we don't understand problem and they can't understand why we do't understand

Unknown SM: where might run into trouble is old issue of value space versus lexical space will continue to come up and problem may be that people who raise issue speak diff laguage than we do; talking past each other; we don't understand problem and they can't understand why we do't understand ←

07:39:47 <oeddie> SM: removed "lexical space" and "value space" from document at advice of TAG

Unknown SM: removed "lexical space" and "value space" from document at advice of TAG ←

07:40:04 <oeddie> SP: ok

Steven Pemberton: ok ←

07:40:26 <oeddie> SP: then don't have to test, although test 64 of RDFa test harness does do that

Steven Pemberton: then don't have to test, although test 64 of RDFa test harness does do that ←

07:40:49 <oeddie> RM: RDfa doesn't use safe_CURIEs

Roland Merrick: RDfa doesn't use safe_CURIEs ←

07:41:06 <oeddie> SP: rel is allowed to be list of CURIEs -- is there a test that has a list of CURIEs?

Steven Pemberton: rel is allowed to be list of CURIEs -- is there a test that has a list of CURIEs? ←

07:41:25 <oeddie> SM: yes, there is - not sure test of rel that combines use of reserved values and things that use colons

Unknown SM: yes, there is - not sure test of rel that combines use of reserved values and things that use colons ←

07:42:03 <oeddie> SP: write down what we need to test in what combinations and compare to RDFa harness

Steven Pemberton: write down what we need to test in what combinations and compare to RDFa harness ←

07:42:27 <oeddie> RM: could test against RDFa - if don't support feature we've added have to go elsewhere or create own

Roland Merrick: could test against RDFa - if don't support feature we've added have to go elsewhere or create own ←

07:42:30 <oeddie> RM: Role?

Roland Merrick: Role? ←

07:42:40 <oeddie> SM: list of CURIEs not safe_CURIEs

Unknown SM: list of CURIEs not safe_CURIEs ←

07:42:45 <oeddie> SP: rel?

Steven Pemberton: rel? ←

07:42:54 <oeddie> SM: doesn't use safe_CURIEs

Unknown SM: doesn't use safe_CURIEs ←

07:43:02 <oeddie> SP: why in test harness

Steven Pemberton: why in test harness ←

07:43:12 <oeddie> SM: probably to fail

Unknown SM: probably to fail ←

07:43:41 <oeddie> SP: test 65 title is wrong - has a resource with safe_CURIE, but no rel with safe_CURIE

Steven Pemberton: test 65 title is wrong - has a resource with safe_CURIE, but no rel with safe_CURIE ←

07:44:20 <oeddie> SP: all safe_CURIEs they test are blank mode -- not testing real safe_CURIEs in realistic manner

Steven Pemberton: all safe_CURIEs they test are blank mode -- not testing real safe_CURIEs in realistic manner ←

07:44:48 <oeddie> SP: test: regular CURIE, safe_CURIE, reserved word CURIE and empty prefixes

Steven Pemberton: test: regular CURIE, safe_CURIE, reserved word CURIE and empty prefixes ←

07:45:11 <oeddie> SP: and a bnote CURIE

Steven Pemberton: and a bnode CURIE ←

07:45:19 <ShaneM> s/bnote/bnode/

07:45:21 <oeddie> SP: combinations of those, too

Steven Pemberton: combinations of those, too ←

07:46:08 <oeddie> SP: 4 cases: bnode, reserved word CURIE, empty prefix CURIE, regurla CURE and safe_CURIE - 16 combinations in all

Steven Pemberton: 4 cases: bnode, reserved word CURIE, empty prefix CURIE, regurla CURE and safe_CURIE - 16 combinations in all ←

07:46:17 <oeddie> RM: Role will cover some of those

Roland Merrick: Role will cover some of those ←

07:47:27 <oeddie> SM: hang on - would be sufficient to test CURIEs in context of RDFa; if can get away without fostering bi-directional ??? to get CURIEs through process

Unknown SM: hang on - would be sufficient to test CURIEs in context of RDFa; if can get away without fostering bi-directional ??? to get CURIEs through process ←

07:47:32 <oeddie> RM: 16 items in test pile

Roland Merrick: 16 items in test pile ←

07:47:58 <Steven> The 16 combinations are the 4 basic curies, then safe versions of them, and then lists of all those

Steven Pemberton: The 16 combinations are the 4 basic curies, then safe versions of them, and then lists of all those ←

07:48:00 <oeddie> SM: proposal: why don't i take the action to work with the RDFa test people to expand collection to cover these 16 variations

Unknown SM: proposal: why don't i take the action to work with the RDFa test people to expand collection to cover these 16 variations ←

07:48:23 <oeddie> SM: they are open to that; plus all RDFa implementors are watching and can double-check what we are doing

Unknown SM: they are open to that; plus all RDFa implementors are watching and can double-check what we are doing ←

07:48:36 <oeddie> SP: problem with list of safe_CURIEs

Steven Pemberton: problem with list of safe_CURIEs ←

07:49:05 <oeddie> RM: still need matrix of things need to be tested; hope don't need to write own test suite - identify holes in existing test harnesses

Roland Merrick: still need matrix of things need to be tested; hope don't need to write own test suite - identify holes in existing test harnesses ←

07:49:26 <oeddie> RM: also need interoperable implemenations of all of those tests

Roland Merrick: also need interoperable implemenations of all of those tests ←

07:49:53 <oeddie> SP: interoperability likely to be done  -- at least 6 implementations of RDFa

Steven Pemberton: interoperability likely to be done -- at least 6 implementations of RDFa ←

07:49:59 <ShaneM> the datatypes not covered in RDFa are URIorSafeCURIEs, SafeCURIE, and SafeCURIEs

Scribe problem: the name 'ShaneM' does not match any of the 10 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Roland Merrick Unknown Uli Unknown Klaus Unknown Hauser Unknown Gerald Unknown Bleeker Steven Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ShaneM: the datatypes not covered in RDFa are URIorSafeCURIEs, SafeCURIE, and SafeCURIEs ←

07:50:21 <oeddie> SP: 9 implementations of RDFa in test reqport

Steven Pemberton: 9 implementations of RDFa in test reqport ←

07:50:34 <oeddie> SM: is operator in there?

Unknown SM: is operator in there? ←

07:50:36 <oeddie> SP: yes

Steven Pemberton: yes ←

07:50:51 <oeddie> SP: check to see if any failed  CURIE test

Steven Pemberton: check to see if any failed CURIE test ←

07:52:08 <oeddie> rrsagent, draft minutes

rrsagent, draft minutes ←

07:52:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie ←

07:52:56 <oeddie> SP: none of the CURIE test fail

Steven Pemberton: none of the CURIE test fail ←

07:53:11 <oeddie> SM: none fail in reality - have to validate some by eye, but almost everyone passes

Unknown SM: none fail in reality - have to validate some by eye, but almost everyone passes ←

07:53:18 <oeddie> SP: even XML Literal test?

Steven Pemberton: even XML Literal test? ←

07:53:33 <oeddie> SM: SPARQL engine evaluating it incorrectly

Unknown SM: SPARQL engine evaluating it incorrectly ←

07:53:46 <oeddie> SP: is the test suite right only for Michael who created it?

Steven Pemberton: is the test suite right only for Michael who created it? ←

07:54:10 <oeddie> SM: whole harness is open source and available -- emailing michael right now that i'm going to id more tests

Unknown SM: whole harness is open source and available -- emailing michael right now that i'm going to id more tests ←

07:54:19 <oeddie> SP: mention test 65 has wrong title, please

Steven Pemberton: mention test 65 has wrong title, please ←

07:54:40 <oeddie> RM: what else is needed?

Roland Merrick: what else is needed? ←

07:54:51 <oeddie> SP: 2 interoperable implementations of all features

Steven Pemberton: 2 interoperable implementations of all features ←

07:55:06 <oeddie> RESOVLED: Send CURIE to CR

Scribe problem: the name 'RESOVLED' does not match any of the 10 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Roland Merrick Unknown Uli Unknown Klaus Unknown Hauser Unknown Gerald Unknown Bleeker Steven Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RESOVLED: Send CURIE to CR ←

07:55:12 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

07:55:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie ←

07:55:37 <oeddie> RESOLVED: Send CURIE to CR

RESOLVED: Send CURIE to CR ←

07:55:42 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

07:55:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie ←

07:58:40 <oeddie> SP: talking to people yesterday after giving last talk of day essentially about RDFa - some people suggested if could do RDFa stylesheet as well - external RDFa resource

Steven Pemberton: talking to people yesterday after giving last talk of day essentially about RDFa - some people suggested if could do RDFa stylesheet as well - external RDFa resource ←

07:58:45 <oeddie> SM: what would that mean?

Unknown SM: what would that mean? ←

07:59:18 <oeddie> SP: decorating DOM with RDFa attributes, but not having RDFa in documents itself; use selectors to add the necessary properties

Steven Pemberton: decorating DOM with RDFa attributes, but not having RDFa in documents itself; use selectors to add the necessary properties ←

08:00:04 <oeddie> SP: RDFa has to decorate every single node in ShowShow, but if have RDFa sheet (this has class of XX or id of YY) should do this

Steven Pemberton: RDFa has to decorate every single node in XOXO, but if have RDFa sheet (this has class of XX or id of YY) should do this ←

08:00:09 <oeddie> SM: ShowShow?

Unknown SM: XOXO? ←

08:00:12 <unl> XOXO

Scribe problem: the name 'unl' does not match any of the 10 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Roland Merrick Unknown Uli Unknown Klaus Unknown Hauser Unknown Gerald Unknown Bleeker Steven Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown unl: XOXO ←

08:00:50 <unl> http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo

Unknown unl: http://microformats.org/wiki/xoxo ←

08:00:58 <oeddie> SP: microformat -- all sorts of implied meaning that get inherited because at top of tree marked as XOXO document; RDFa doesn't propagate  down notes

Steven Pemberton: microformat -- all sorts of implied meaning that get inherited because at top of tree marked as XOXO document; RDFa doesn't propagate down notes ←

08:01:10 <oeddie> s/ShowShow/XOXO/G

08:02:28 <oeddie> SP: like to represent family tree as nested lists (UL or OL) -- if want to add relationships to that in RDFa, on every node, ahve to say this node is child of parent element; adding loads of identical info at each LI -- would like to say if find UL class="expanded-tree" propogate RDFa

Steven Pemberton: like to represent family tree as nested lists (UL or OL) -- if want to add relationships to that in RDFa, on every node, ahve to say this node is child of parent element; adding loads of identical info at each LI -- would like to say if find UL class="expanded-tree" propogate RDFa ←

08:03:13 <oeddie> SM: started work on something like that on different problem; defining mechanisms for following nodes

Unknown SM: started work on something like that on different problem; defining mechanisms for following nodes ←

08:03:43 <oeddie> SM: use proflie mechanism and defining rules to help RDFa processors to evaluate in profile -- brining extra intro into content of document

Unknown SM: use proflie mechanism and defining rules to help RDFa processors to evaluate in profile -- brining extra intro into content of document ←

08:04:05 <oeddie> SP: RDFa in external RDF document

Steven Pemberton: RDFa in external RDF document ←

08:04:06 <ShaneM> http://www.rdfa.info/wiki/RDFa_Profiles

Unknown ShaneM: http://www.rdfa.info/wiki/RDFa_Profiles ←

08:05:04 <oeddie> SM: Mark, Manu and some others working on this; interesting idea that dovetails nicely

Unknown SM: Mark, Manu and some others working on this; interesting idea that dovetails nicely ←

08:05:21 <oeddie> GJR: working on similar concept for reuse of ABBR, ACRONYM, and DFN etc.

Unknown GJR: working on similar concept for reuse of ABBR, ACRONYM, and DFN etc. ←

08:06:12 <oeddie> SP: Harry Halpen been sending posts to RDFa list - came up to me and said that we ought to go th HTML5 meeting this afternoon and talke about getting RDFa into HTML5

Steven Pemberton: Harry Halpen been sending posts to RDFa list - came up to me and said that we ought to go th HTML5 meeting this afternoon and talke about getting RDFa into HTML5 ←

08:07:24 <oeddie> GJR: @profile stilll under negotiation

Unknown GJR: @profile stilll under negotiation ←

08:07:37 <oeddie> SP: rel=profile works beeter tan @profile

Steven Pemberton: rel=profile works beeter tan @profile ←

08:08:18 <oeddie> SP: loss of rev is a bigger problem; but if in DOM, shouldn't care at all; remaining question is: if attribute is in markup, does it end up in DOM; i think it has to, otherwise break dojo

Steven Pemberton: loss of rev is a bigger problem; but if in DOM, shouldn't care at all; remaining question is: if attribute is in markup, does it end up in DOM; i think it has to, otherwise break dojo ←

08:08:24 <oeddie> GJR: yes would break dojo

Unknown GJR: yes would break dojo ←

08:08:34 <oeddie> SP: as long as stays in DOM, don't have leg to stand on

Steven Pemberton: as long as stays in DOM, don't have leg to stand on ←

08:10:19 <oeddie> SP: HTML5 has bad validation story, but we are in position to say "this is valid" because provide schemas (validate this markup against this schema); can validate, browsers don't choke, as long as stuff ends up in DOM, we've all won

Steven Pemberton: HTML5 has bad validation story, but we are in position to say "this is valid" because provide schemas (validate this markup against this schema); can validate, browsers don't choke, as long as stuff ends up in DOM, we've all won ←

08:10:39 <oeddie> SP: if browsers not going to implement stuff, then will be done with javascript

Steven Pemberton: if browsers not going to implement stuff, then will be done with javascript ←

08:11:17 <oeddie> SP: we provide language, HTML5 UA ignores what doesn'tknow about, but still gets into DOM, so can be extracted

Steven Pemberton: we provide language, HTML5 UA ignores what doesn'tknow about, but still gets into DOM, so can be extracted ←

08:11:44 <oeddie> SP: they say we chuck stuff away and don't do anything with it, but since appears in DOM, can be used

Steven Pemberton: they say we chuck stuff away and don't do anything with it, but since appears in DOM, can be used ←

08:12:40 <oeddie> SM: ensuring Semantic Web is first class citizen is only tangible deliverable W3C has this decade

Unknown SM: ensuring Semantic Web is first class citizen is only tangible deliverable W3C has this decade ←

08:13:14 <oeddie> SM: behooves W3C to ensure that HTML5 accept RDFa

Unknown SM: behooves W3C to ensure that HTML5 accept RDFa ←

08:13:48 <oeddie> SP: don't think RDFa under threat if HTML5 ignores

Steven Pemberton: don't think RDFa under threat if HTML5 ignores ←

08:14:12 <oeddie> q?

q? ←

08:14:22 <oeddie> zakim, who is here?

zakim, who is here? ←

08:14:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see Cannes, ShaneM, Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Cannes, ShaneM, Gregory_Rosmaita ←

08:14:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see nic1, klaus, Roland_, ShaneM, Steven, unl, RRSAgent, Zakim, oeddie, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see nic1, klaus, Roland_, ShaneM, Steven, unl, RRSAgent, Zakim, oeddie, trackbot ←

08:14:35 <oeddie> TOPIC: Role Module

4. Role Module

08:14:52 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-role-20081018/

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-role-20081018/ ←

08:14:52 <oeddie> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-role-20081018

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-role-20081018 ←

08:15:45 <oeddie> SM: no outstanding issues; no @ signs in document; diff marks from LC working draft interesting thing to look at -- no changes, save schema is normative now

Unknown SM: no outstanding issues; no @ signs in document; diff marks from LC working draft interesting thing to look at -- no changes, save schema is normative now ←

08:15:46 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-role-20081018/xhtml-role-diff.html

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-role-20081018/xhtml-role-diff.html ←

08:16:05 <oeddie> SM: very thin specificiation

Unknown SM: very thin specificiation ←

08:16:17 <oeddie> SM: Roland raised issue of conformance testing for CR

Unknown SM: Roland raised issue of conformance testing for CR ←

08:17:01 <oeddie> GJR: role examples in ARIA test suites could be leveraged

Unknown GJR: role examples in ARIA test suites could be leveraged ←

08:17:05 <oeddie> codetalks.org

codetalks.org ←

08:18:57 <Steven> http://wiki.codetalks.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Steven Pemberton: http://wiki.codetalks.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page ←

08:19:18 <Steven> http://wiki.codetalks.org/wiki/index.php/Set_of_ARIA_Test_Cases

Steven Pemberton: http://wiki.codetalks.org/wiki/index.php/Set_of_ARIA_Test_Cases ←

08:19:37 <oeddie> http://wiki.codetalks.org/wiki/index.php/ARIATestTests

http://wiki.codetalks.org/wiki/index.php/ARIATestTests ←

08:19:39 <oeddie> http://wiki.codetalks.org/wiki/index.php/ARIATestTesters

http://wiki.codetalks.org/wiki/index.php/ARIATestTesters ←

08:19:43 <oeddie> http://wiki.codetalks.org/wiki/index.php/ARIATestTemplate

http://wiki.codetalks.org/wiki/index.php/ARIATestTemplate ←

08:20:28 <oeddie> SP: none use CURIEs

Steven Pemberton: none use CURIEs ←

08:20:41 <oeddie> GJR: willing to work with someone on that

Unknown GJR: willing to work with someone on that ←

08:21:00 <oeddie> SP: WAI-ARIA allows CURIE values for role

Steven Pemberton: WAI-ARIA allows CURIE values for role ←

08:21:14 <oeddie> GJR: have to check -- may have been dropped

Unknown GJR: have to check -- may have been dropped ←

08:21:23 <oeddie> GJR: will check at break

Unknown GJR: will check at break ←

08:21:38 <oeddie> SP: Overkill for role

Steven Pemberton: Overkill for role ←

08:22:03 <oeddie> SP: only need 2 tests: prefix CURIE and reserved word CURIE

Steven Pemberton: only need 2 tests: prefix CURIE and reserved word CURIE ←

08:22:20 <oeddie> SM: Lot of reserved words in vocab document

Unknown SM: Lot of reserved words in vocab document ←

08:22:30 <oeddie> SM: what does it mean to implement surpport for role?

Unknown SM: what does it mean to implement surpport for role? ←

08:22:43 <oeddie> SP: sepc for Role does not require any behavior

Steven Pemberton: spec for Role does not require any behavior ←

08:23:02 <Roland_> s/sepc/spec/

08:23:03 <Steven> s/sepc/spec/

08:24:23 <oeddie> GJR: role=search mockup-plans

Unknown GJR: role=search mockup-plans ←

08:24:33 <oeddie> SP: don't have to show implemented, but using it

Steven Pemberton: don't have to show implemented, but using it ←

08:25:25 <oeddie> SM: by using it, incorporating modules we have defined into markup languages and ensuring that such hybrids validate - might need for CR, but no behavioral action defined; CURIEs just tokens

Unknown SM: by using it, incorporating modules we have defined into markup languages and ensuring that such hybrids validate - might need for CR, but no behavioral action defined; CURIEs just tokens ←

08:25:55 <oeddie> SP: who is using role other than ARIA and us?

Steven Pemberton: who is using role other than ARIA and us? ←

08:26:03 <oeddie> GJR: mobile very interested in role

Unknown GJR: mobile very interested in role ←

08:26:58 <oeddie> SM: langugage that allows it - like class in HTML -- has no semantics to it; CSS and other microformats use class to achieve ends, but HTML has no req performance or usage for class

Unknown SM: langugage that allows it - like class in HTML -- has no semantics to it; CSS and other microformats use class to achieve ends, but HTML has no req performance or usage for class ←

08:27:42 <oeddie> RM: depends upon how define -- implementation through languages;

Roland Merrick: depends upon how define -- implementation through languages; ←

08:28:02 <oeddie> SP: never know what is going to arise in CR

Steven Pemberton: never know what is going to arise in CR ←

08:29:02 <oeddie> SM: problems: can't be dependent on WAI because WAI dependent upon us; think could demonstrate markup language that uses model -- XHTML2, XHTML11+RDFa -- could get extermal group to do this (Mark's hybrid language - XH)

Unknown SM: problems: can't be dependent on WAI because WAI dependent upon us; think could demonstrate markup language that uses model -- XHTML2, XHTML11+RDFa -- could get extermal group to do this (Mark's hybrid language - XH) ←

08:30:56 <oeddie> SP: role doesn't have any semantics attached to it by spec itself; that sort of spec always causes trouble at transition

Steven Pemberton: role doesn't have any semantics attached to it by spec itself; that sort of spec always causes trouble at transition ←

08:31:11 <oeddie> RM: show been combined into 2 languages (interoperability) and 2 implementations as well

Roland Merrick: show been combined into 2 languages (interoperability) and 2 implementations as well ←

08:31:42 <oeddie> SP: exit criteria will be: languages adopting this module and furthermore 2 interop implementations of one or more languages

Steven Pemberton: exit criteria will be: languages adopting this module and furthermore 2 interop implementations of one or more languages ←

08:31:52 <oeddie> RM: WAI-ARIA and mobile profile

Roland Merrick: WAI-ARIA and mobile profile ←

08:31:56 <oeddie> SP: sounds good

Steven Pemberton: sounds good ←

08:32:13 <oeddie> RESOLVED: Request CR for Role Module

RESOLVED: Request CR for Role Module ←

08:32:25 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

08:32:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie ←

08:33:08 <oeddie> SM: 3 exit criteria langs, 2 implementations, 2 interop implementations that support one or more of those languages; all comments received during LC have been disposed of

Unknown SM: 3 exit criteria langs, 2 implementations, 2 interop implementations that support one or more of those languages; all comments received during LC have been disposed of ←

08:33:36 <oeddie> SP: SVG Tiny does have "role' attribute

Steven Pemberton: SVG Tiny does have "role' attribute ←

08:33:37 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/attributeTable.html

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile12/attributeTable.html ←

08:33:58 <oeddie> http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/SVG/Mobile12

http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/SVG/Mobile12 ←

08:34:28 <oeddie> SP: SVGT 1.2 has adopted role as well

Steven Pemberton: SVGT 1.2 has adopted role as well ←

08:34:43 <oeddie> GJR: check that 'role' in both are identical -- list of strings

Unknown GJR: check that 'role' in both are identical -- list of strings ←

08:34:52 <oeddie> SP: intention the same

Steven Pemberton: intention the same ←

08:35:09 <oeddie> RM: include implementation of role in SVG?

Roland Merrick: include implementation of role in SVG? ←

08:35:43 <oeddie> SP: reference 'role' informatively - don't want a dependency on us, but in future version will be able to reference Role Module normatively once through rec

Steven Pemberton: reference 'role' informatively - don't want a dependency on us, but in future version will be able to reference Role Module normatively once through rec ←

08:35:52 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

08:35:54 <oeddie> BREAK FOR 30 MINUTES

BREAK FOR 30 MINUTES ←

08:35:56 <Zakim> -Cannes

Zakim IRC Bot: -Cannes ←

08:35:59 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita ←

08:36:00 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has ended ←

08:36:01 <Zakim> Attendees were Cannes, ShaneM, Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Cannes, ShaneM, Gregory_Rosmaita ←

08:36:21 <oeddie> rrsagend, draft minutes

rrsagend, draft minutes ←

08:38:21 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

08:38:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie ←

08:47:13 <ShaneM> CR Ready draft of the CURIE spec is available at http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081023/

(No events recorded for 8 minutes)

Unknown ShaneM: CR Ready draft of the CURIE spec is available at http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081023/ ←

08:47:51 <ShaneM> CR Ready draft of the XHTML Role Attribute Module spec is available at http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-role-20081023/

Unknown ShaneM: CR Ready draft of the XHTML Role Attribute Module spec is available at http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-role-20081023/ ←

09:07:58 <nick> zakim, help

Scribe problem: the name 'nick' does not match any of the 10 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Roland Merrick Unknown Uli Unknown Klaus Unknown Hauser Unknown Gerald Unknown Bleeker Steven Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

(No events recorded for 20 minutes)

Unknown nick: zakim, help ←

09:07:58 <Zakim> Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.

Zakim IRC Bot: Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help. ←

09:08:00 <Zakim> Some of the commands I know are:

Zakim IRC Bot: Some of the commands I know are: ←

09:08:01 <Zakim>  xxx is yyy       - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx

Zakim IRC Bot: xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx ←

09:08:03 <Zakim>                     if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted

Zakim IRC Bot: if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted ←

09:08:05 <Zakim>  xxx may be yyy   - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx

Zakim IRC Bot: xxx may be yyy - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx ←

09:08:08 <Zakim>  I am xxx         - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx

Zakim IRC Bot: I am xxx - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx ←

09:08:10 <Zakim>  xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group

Zakim IRC Bot: xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group ←

09:08:13 <Zakim>  xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx

Zakim IRC Bot: xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx ←

09:08:15 <Zakim>  who's here?      - lists the participants on the phone

Zakim IRC Bot: who's here? - lists the participants on the phone ←

09:08:18 <Zakim>  who's muted?     - lists the participants who are muted

Zakim IRC Bot: who's muted? - lists the participants who are muted ←

09:08:20 <Zakim>  mute xxx         - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)

Zakim IRC Bot: mute xxx - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#) ←

09:08:22 <Zakim>  unmute xxx       - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#

Zakim IRC Bot: unmute xxx - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61# ←

09:08:24 <Zakim>  is xxx here?     - reports whether a party named like xxx is present

Zakim IRC Bot: is xxx here? - reports whether a party named like xxx is present ←

09:08:26 <Zakim>  list conferences - reports the active conferences

Zakim IRC Bot: list conferences - reports the active conferences ←

09:08:27 <Zakim>  this is xxx      - associates this channel with conference xxx

Zakim IRC Bot: this is xxx - associates this channel with conference xxx ←

09:08:28 <Zakim>  excuse us        - disconnects from the irc channel

Zakim IRC Bot: excuse us - disconnects from the irc channel ←

09:08:30 <Zakim> I last learned something new on $Date: 2016/03/10 19:29:50 $

Zakim IRC Bot: I last learned something new on $Date: 2016/03/10 19:29:50 $ ←

09:08:51 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has now started ←

09:08:53 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita ←

09:10:20 <Roland_> Zakim, dial executive_3

Roland Merrick: Zakim, dial executive_3 ←

09:10:20 <Zakim> ok, Roland_; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Roland_; the call is being made ←

09:10:22 <Zakim> +Executive_3

Zakim IRC Bot: +Executive_3 ←

09:11:23 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←

09:12:01 <oeddie> TOPIC: XHTML Access Module

5. Role Module, continued

09:13:15 <oeddie> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20081018

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20081018 ←

09:13:47 <oeddie> SM: updated CURIE criteria section

Unknown SM: updated CURIE criteria section ←

09:15:24 <oeddie> SM: 15 January 2008 as target for leaving CR

Unknown SM: 15 January 2008 as target for leaving CR ←

09:15:32 <oeddie> SM: takes into account holiday season

Unknown SM: takes into account holiday season ←

09:16:24 <oeddie> RN: disposition of comments?

Scribe problem: the name 'RN' does not match any of the 10 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Roland Merrick Unknown Uli Unknown Klaus Unknown Hauser Unknown Gerald Unknown Bleeker Steven Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RN: disposition of comments? ←

09:16:41 <oeddie> SM: was going to do during break but GJR and i got to exchanging music pointers

Unknown SM: was going to do during break but GJR and i got to exchanging music pointers ←

09:16:52 <oeddie> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/agenda

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/agenda ←

09:17:22 <Steven> rrsagent, pointer?

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, pointer? ←

09:17:22 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-irc#T09-17-22

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-irc#T09-17-22 ←

09:18:10 <oeddie> zakim, who is here?

zakim, who is here? ←

09:18:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, Executive_3, ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Gregory_Rosmaita, Executive_3, ShaneM ←

09:18:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see Steven, Roland_, nick, unl, ShaneM, RRSAgent, Zakim, oeddie, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Steven, Roland_, nick, unl, ShaneM, RRSAgent, Zakim, oeddie, trackbot ←

09:18:22 <oeddie> mute Executive_3

mute Executive_3 ←

09:18:33 <oeddie> unmute Executive3

unmute Executive3 ←

09:18:46 <oeddie> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20081018

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20081018 ←

09:19:40 <oeddie> SM: could markup CURIE syntax document with RDFa - could be its own test suite

Unknown SM: could markup CURIE syntax document with RDFa - could be its own test suite ←

09:20:40 <Roland_> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-role-20081023/

Roland Merrick: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-role-20081023/ ←

09:20:48 <oeddie> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081018/curie-wd-diff.html

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081018/curie-wd-diff.html ←

09:20:56 <oeddie> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081018/curie-diff.html

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081018/curie-diff.html ←

09:22:00 <oeddie> diff from editor's draft: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081023/curie-diff.html

diff from editor's draft: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081023/curie-diff.html ←

09:22:14 <oeddie> diff from previous wd: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081023/curie-wd-diff.html

diff from previous wd: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-curie-20081023/curie-wd-diff.html ←

09:23:17 <oeddie> SM: ok, Role needs diff info

Unknown SM: ok, Role needs diff info ←

09:24:56 <oeddie> RM: change made to earlier item "MUST NOT" - what is allowed to change after LC -- this was in rsponse to LC comment, so should be ok?

Roland Merrick: change made to earlier item "MUST NOT" - what is allowed to change after LC -- this was in rsponse to LC comment, so should be ok? ←

09:25:10 <oeddie> SP: LC comment from TAG

Steven Pemberton: LC comment from TAG ←

09:25:19 <oeddie> SM: follow up from Henry Thompson

Unknown SM: follow up from Henry Thompson ←

09:25:47 <oeddie> RM: have we responded to all LC commentors?

Roland Merrick: have we responded to all LC commentors? ←

09:26:06 <oeddie> SM: happy with responses

Unknown SM: happy with responses ←

09:26:32 <oeddie> RM: XHTML Role Module still has prefix forms for reference

Roland Merrick: XHTML Role Module still has prefix forms for reference ←

09:26:56 <oeddie> s/TOPIC: XHTML Access Module/TOPIC: Role Module, continued

09:27:14 <oeddie> SM: good catch -- will take care of right now

Unknown SM: good catch -- will take care of right now ←

09:28:00 <oeddie> RM: request from XForms group

Roland Merrick: request from XForms group ←

09:28:50 <oeddie> http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-xhtml-minutes.html#item06

http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-xhtml-minutes.html#item06 ←

09:28:50 <Steven> (http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-forms-minutes#item05)

Steven Pemberton: (http://www.w3.org/2008/10/20-forms-minutes#item05) ←

09:29:47 <Roland_> Minutes of joint session to discuss XForms comments on XML Events 2

Roland Merrick: Minutes of joint session to discuss XForms comments on XML Events 2 ←

09:30:03 <Steven> (For later consideration)

Steven Pemberton: (For later consideration) ←

09:30:33 <oeddie> Roland: XML events 2 was intended to be incorporated in XForms

Roland Merrick: XML events 2 was intended to be incorporated in XForms ←

09:30:34 <oeddie> <Roland_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Sep/0029

<Roland_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Sep/0029 ←

09:32:33 <oeddie> SP: happy with CURIE for the record

Steven Pemberton: happy with CURIE for the record ←

09:32:38 <oeddie> GJR: me too

Unknown GJR: me too ←

09:33:31 <oeddie> unmute Executive_3

unmute Executive_3 ←

09:34:07 <oeddie> RM: prefix issue needs clean up before CURIE is ready

Roland Merrick: prefix issue needs clean up before CURIE is ready ←

09:34:15 <oeddie> SM: came up with something uploadig now

Unknown SM: came up with something uploadig now ←

09:35:58 <oeddie> SP: with RDFa we say host language decides about prefix

Steven Pemberton: with RDFa we say host language decides about prefix ←

09:36:09 <oeddie> SP: role defines cases for appropriate use

Steven Pemberton: role defines cases for appropriate use ←

09:36:26 <oeddie> SP: SVG has "role"

Steven Pemberton: SVG has "role" ←

09:36:32 <oeddie> RM: host language should define

Roland Merrick: host language should define ←

09:36:38 <oeddie> SP: Host language must define

Steven Pemberton: Host language must define ←

09:36:51 <oeddie> RM: unless specified by host language, default is...

Roland Merrick: unless specified by host language, default is... ←

09:38:15 <oeddie> SM: concern about RM's suggestion is have situation not sure how would affect implementatoin; value in flexibility, but what does mean for implemenattiono of ARIA -- if encounters CURIE relying on default prefix how does it now to interpret

Unknown SM: concern about RM's suggestion is have situation not sure how would affect implementatoin; value in flexibility, but what does mean for implemenattiono of ARIA -- if encounters CURIE relying on default prefix how does it now to interpret ←

09:38:37 <oeddie> RM: interesting questions -- if SVG changes role with different prefixed, ARIA wouldn't pick them up

Roland Merrick: interesting questions -- if SVG changes role with different prefixed, ARIA wouldn't pick them up ←

09:39:23 <oeddie> SM: one way to address this is instead of talking about default prefix can say "default prefix kicks in when colon (foo:)" there is also collection of reserved values defined in vocabl

Unknown SM: one way to address this is instead of talking about default prefix can say "default prefix kicks in when colon (foo:)" there is also collection of reserved values defined in vocabl ←

09:39:33 <oeddie> RM: reserved, default, and prefix

Roland Merrick: reserved, default, and prefix ←

09:39:43 <oeddie> SP: section doesn't mention this

Steven Pemberton: section doesn't mention this ←

09:40:04 <oeddie> SM: trying to simplify, but maybe have to be explained in more complicated detail

Unknown SM: trying to simplify, but maybe have to be explained in more complicated detail ←

09:40:57 <oeddie> SM: could take language from RDFa in strong normative way - reserve values over here, host language responsible to define prefix and context -- reference or resereved value (which is in vocab doc), but SVG will want own reserved values

Unknown SM: could take language from RDFa in strong normative way - reserve values over here, host language responsible to define prefix and context -- reference or resereved value (which is in vocab doc), but SVG will want own reserved values ←

09:41:46 <oeddie> SP: as long as MLs don't keep asking us to add to vocab namespace

Steven Pemberton: as long as MLs don't keep asking us to add to vocab namespace ←

09:42:04 <oeddie> RM: but SVG should follow same rules -- SVG Tiny 1,2 does't do this

Roland Merrick: but SVG should follow same rules -- SVG Tiny 1,2 does't do this ←

09:42:22 <oeddie> RM: no predifined values for 'role' in SVG

Roland Merrick: no predifined values for 'role' in SVG ←

09:44:06 <oeddie> http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/SVG/Mobile12/RoleAttribute

http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/SVG/Mobile12/RoleAttribute ←

09:44:20 <oeddie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2008OctDec/thread.html#msg46

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2008OctDec/thread.html#msg46 ←

09:44:44 <oeddie> RM: if want role attribute, who takes responsibility for expansion of role -- should be role processor

Roland Merrick: if want role attribute, who takes responsibility for expansion of role -- should be role processor ←

09:44:51 <oeddie> SP: not necessarily one processer

Steven Pemberton: not necessarily one processer ←

09:45:14 <oeddie> RM: one processor for that

Roland Merrick: one processor for that ←

09:45:31 <oeddie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2008JulSep/0607.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2008JulSep/0607.html ←

09:45:36 <oeddie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2008JulSep/0615.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2008JulSep/0615.html ←

09:45:52 <oeddie> SM: CURIE spec says specifically this is NOT in DOM

Unknown SM: CURIE spec says specifically this is NOT in DOM ←

09:46:03 <oeddie> RM: creation of URI

Roland Merrick: creation of URI ←

09:46:18 <oeddie> SM: no power over DOM implementations -- trying to make as useful as possible today

Unknown SM: no power over DOM implementations -- trying to make as useful as possible today ←

09:46:56 <oeddie> RM: behavior from role attribute easier, but would be quite nice if people didn't have to understand about CURIEs and could just let processor handle URIs

Roland Merrick: behavior from role attribute easier, but would be quite nice if people didn't have to understand about CURIEs and could just let processor handle URIs ←

09:47:06 <oeddie> SM: great role, but have to get there

Unknown SM: great role, but have to get there ←

09:47:52 <ShaneM> The CURIE spec says: Note that if CURIEs are to be used in the context of scripting, accessing a CURIE via standard mechanisms such as the XML DOM will return the lexical form,

Unknown ShaneM: The CURIE spec says: Note that if CURIEs are to be used in the context of scripting, accessing a CURIE via standard mechanisms such as the XML DOM will return the lexical form, ←

09:47:52 <ShaneM> not its value as IRI. In order to develop portable applications that evaluate CURIEs, a script author must transform CURIEs into their value as IRI

Unknown ShaneM: not its value as IRI. In order to develop portable applications that evaluate CURIEs, a script author must transform CURIEs into their value as IRI ←

09:47:52 <ShaneM> before evaluating them (e.g., dereferencing the resulting IRI or comparing two CURIEs).

Unknown ShaneM: before evaluating them (e.g., dereferencing the resulting IRI or comparing two CURIEs). ←

09:49:02 <oeddie> from PF to SVG on 'role': * reference http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-SVGMobile12-20080915/single-page.html#metadata-MetadataAttributes

from PF to SVG on 'role': * reference http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-SVGMobile12-20080915/single-page.html#metadata-MetadataAttributes ←

09:49:02 <oeddie> * from: "When used with ARIA, the 'role' attribute must be one of a specific set of keywords from the ARIA ontology, and to be most effective, needs to be used in conjunction with other attributes defined by ARIA, each with a specific set of corresponding values relevant to the particular role.

* from: "When used with ARIA, the 'role' attribute must be one of a specific set of keywords from the ARIA ontology, and to be most effective, needs to be used in conjunction with other attributes defined by ARIA, each with a specific set of corresponding values relevant to the particular role. ←

09:49:02 <oeddie> * to: "When SVG is used with WAI-ARIA, some of the strings in the list in the 'role' attribute value may match one or more values designated as role names in that specification.  In this case, WAI-ARIA defines additional processing for the elements bearing these 'role' values including requirements for the use of further WAI-ARIA-defined  attributes.  Note that this processing does not interfere with host  language processing, but supplements it with regard to t

* to: "When SVG is used with WAI-ARIA, some of the strings in the list in the 'role' attribute value may match one or more values designated as role names in that specification. In this case, WAI-ARIA defines additional processing for the elements bearing these 'role' values including requirements for the use of further WAI-ARIA-defined attributes. Note that this processing does not interfere with host language processing, but supplements it with regard to t ←

09:49:06 <oeddie> [suggested hyperlinking: link the first instance of WAI-ARIA in this  paragraph to an entry in the references section which itself leads to  the 'latest version' link on the Technical Reports page.  Whatever  you work out with the Comm Team is fine, here.]

[suggested hyperlinking: link the first instance of WAI-ARIA in this paragraph to an entry in the references section which itself leads to the 'latest version' link on the Technical Reports page. Whatever you work out with the Comm Team is fine, here.] ←

09:49:19 <oeddie> RM: script to translate from CURIE to URI

Roland Merrick: script to translate from CURIE to URI ←

09:49:48 <oeddie> SP: work on this from UbiWeb

Steven Pemberton: work on this from UbiWeb ←

09:50:09 <oeddie> RM: here is bit of javascript that does it -- reuse it

Roland Merrick: here is bit of javascript that does it -- reuse it ←

09:50:17 <oeddie> RM: making life easier for people

Roland Merrick: making life easier for people ←

09:50:27 <oeddie> GJR: crossover with RWAB XG library plans?

Unknown GJR: crossover with RWAB XG library plans? ←

09:50:37 <oeddie> RM: not required

Roland Merrick: not required ←

09:51:00 <oeddie> SM: won't be easy to write script

Unknown SM: won't be easy to write script ←

09:51:05 <oeddie> RM: why need pre-canned one

Roland Merrick: why need pre-canned one ←

09:51:18 <oeddie> SM: requesting put in before CR

Unknown SM: requesting put in before CR ←

09:51:26 <oeddie> RM: no, but for REC -- help with adoption

Roland Merrick: no, but for REC -- help with adoption ←

09:51:43 <oeddie> GJR: ubiquity-xforms model for ubiquity-curies

Unknown GJR: ubiquity-xforms model for ubiquity-curies ←

09:52:00 <oeddie> RM: develop supporting materials to make adaptation easier

Roland Merrick: develop supporting materials to make adaptation easier ←

09:52:03 <ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to craft an example script to generically transform a string to a CURIE using the XML DOM for inclusion or reference from the CURIE spec.

ACTION: Shane to craft an example script to generically transform a string to a CURIE using the XML DOM for inclusion or reference from the CURIE spec. ←

09:52:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-13 - Craft an example script to generically transform a string to a CURIE using the XML DOM for inclusion or reference from the CURIE spec. [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-10-30].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-13 - Craft an example script to generically transform a string to a CURIE using the XML DOM for inclusion or reference from the CURIE spec. [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-10-30]. ←

09:52:09 <Steven> And Ben Adida's RDFa implementaiton in javascript

Steven Pemberton: And Ben Adida's RDFa implementaiton in javascript ←

09:52:14 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

09:52:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie ←

09:53:09 <oeddie> RM: important thing: make script that can do this and then make universally available; informative section would be nice, but would be better if people could witness the execution of the script

Roland Merrick: important thing: make script that can do this and then make universally available; informative section would be nice, but would be better if people could witness the execution of the script ←

09:53:28 <oeddie> RM: status of Role?

Roland Merrick: status of Role? ←

09:53:51 <oeddie> SM: didn't agree on what we want to say?  restrict role to specific set of values? restrict to specific prefix?

Unknown SM: didn't agree on what we want to say? restrict role to specific set of values? restrict to specific prefix? ←

09:54:44 <oeddie> RM: default or specify options;

Roland Merrick: default or specify options; ←

09:59:30 <oeddie> RM: need to change paragraph to -- prefix version and default, and one cannot change default

Roland Merrick: need to change paragraph to -- prefix version and default, and one cannot change default ←

09:59:38 <oeddie> SP: don't feel strongly enough either way

Steven Pemberton: don't feel strongly enough either way ←

10:00:25 <oeddie> SM: for flexibility, should allow host languages to define their own default prefix if they so choose, BUT should require that our collection of reserved values are always respected

Unknown SM: for flexibility, should allow host languages to define their own default prefix if they so choose, BUT should require that our collection of reserved values are always respected ←

10:00:43 <oeddie> RM: value not found in default prefix, fall back to default default prefix?

Roland Merrick: value not found in default prefix, fall back to default default prefix? ←

10:01:11 <ShaneM> Three forms... foo:bar, :bar, and bar

Unknown ShaneM: Three forms... foo:bar, :bar, and bar ←

10:01:13 <oeddie> SM: don't define

Unknown SM: don't define ←

10:01:31 <oeddie> RM: default order - look in language namespace the role vocab?

Roland Merrick: default order - look in language namespace the role vocab? ←

10:02:42 <ShaneM> role="bar" that's from our list.

Unknown ShaneM: role="bar" that's from our list. ←

10:02:45 <oeddie> SM: not what i want; ways of extending but out of scope: for this spec, collection of reserved values; 3 forms of CURIE syntax - we know what foo:bar is, suggesting if goo:bar is fine, but prefix for that is host language definable; XHTML Role doesn't care what default prefix is, but do have reserved values,

Unknown SM: not what i want; ways of extending but out of scope: for this spec, collection of reserved values; 3 forms of CURIE syntax - we know what foo:bar is, suggesting if goo:bar is fine, but prefix for that is host language definable; XHTML Role doesn't care what default prefix is, but do have reserved values, ←

10:02:55 <oeddie> RM: is that now in CURIE spec

Roland Merrick: is that now in CURIE spec ←

10:03:07 <oeddie> SM: says is up to language using it to determine what it means

Unknown SM: says is up to language using it to determine what it means ←

10:03:24 <ShaneM> role=":bar" is not defined.  host languages can define it if they like.

Unknown ShaneM: role=":bar" is not defined. host languages can define it if they like. ←

10:03:31 <oeddie> RM: haven't discussed particular feature in this spec so far -- haven't said what happens if define foo:bar

Roland Merrick: haven't discussed particular feature in this spec so far -- haven't said what happens if define foo:bar ←

10:04:09 <oeddie> RM: either invalid or it default values in vocab -- those are 2 options

Roland Merrick: either invalid or it default values in vocab -- those are 2 options ←

10:04:11 <oeddie> SM: true

Unknown SM: true ←

10:04:34 <oeddie> RM: if defaulted to vocab, one less error which doesn't need to be tested

Roland Merrick: if defaulted to vocab, one less error which doesn't need to be tested ←

10:05:00 <oeddie> SM: prefix used in that case is blah - host languge may override that

Unknown SM: prefix used in that case is blah - host languge may override that ←

10:05:02 <oeddie> RM:yes

Roland Merrick: yes ←

10:05:11 <oeddie> SM: will make changes so can revisit in context

Unknown SM: will make changes so can revisit in context ←

10:05:32 <oeddie> TOPIC: Access Module

6. Access Module

10:05:38 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

10:05:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie ←

10:05:48 <Roland_> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20081018/

Roland Merrick: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20081018/ ←

10:07:18 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20081018/xhtml-access-diff.html

Unknown ShaneM: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20081018/xhtml-access-diff.html ←

10:07:23 <oeddie> SM: status: XHTML Acess new draft 18 October 2008 - should be diff marks from LC draft; implemented all changes requested and agreed to by WG; included revamping of introduction; suggest we reveiw those changes

Unknown SM: status: XHTML Acess new draft 18 October 2008 - should be diff marks from LC draft; implemented all changes requested and agreed to by WG; included revamping of introduction; suggest we reveiw those changes ←

10:08:36 <oeddie> SP: don't have to worry about being adopted in more than one language; enough to say 2 interoperable imnplementations

Steven Pemberton: don't have to worry about being adopted in more than one language; enough to say 2 interoperable imnplementations ←

10:08:40 <oeddie> SM: ok

Unknown SM: ok ←

10:10:09 <oeddie> RM: review period depends upon implementation -- need 2 -- do we have any idea where to find?

Roland Merrick: review period depends upon implementation -- need 2 -- do we have any idea where to find? ←

10:10:17 <oeddie> SP: Shane talking of doing one himself

Steven Pemberton: Shane talking of doing one himself ←

10:10:30 <oeddie> SM: not hard to implement in browser context

Unknown SM: not hard to implement in browser context ←

10:11:31 <oeddie> SM: open issue in agenda - what happens with regard to intrisic events and access element?  if going to incorporate into other languages, how, and what does having event in mnodule?

Unknown SM: open issue in agenda - what happens with regard to intrisic events and access element? if going to incorporate into other languages, how, and what does having event in mnodule? ←

10:12:03 <oeddie> SM: intrinsic event module - brings in all intrinsic events from HTML

Unknown SM: intrinsic event module - brings in all intrinsic events from HTML ←

10:12:35 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstract_modules.html#s_intrinsiceventsmodule

Unknown ShaneM: http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstract_modules.html#s_intrinsiceventsmodule ←

10:13:19 <oeddie> SM: One could imagine could be useful

Unknown SM: One could imagine could be useful ←

10:13:44 <oeddie> SP: Access Element not exposed to markup - onKeyPress means something very specific in HTML - if keyPressEvent passes through or bubbles

Steven Pemberton: Access Element not exposed to markup - onKeyPress means something very specific in HTML - if keyPressEvent passes through or bubbles ←

10:14:11 <oeddie> SP: can put events on there, but won't happen unless include script that says "put on this element" so is moot

Steven Pemberton: can put events on there, but won't happen unless include script that says "put on this element" so is moot ←

10:15:05 <oeddie> events in HTML 4.01 can be found at: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/sgml/dtd.html#Script

events in HTML 4.01 can be found at: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/sgml/dtd.html#Script ←

10:15:54 <oeddie> SM: not sure how we get to point where people other than me implementing access

Unknown SM: not sure how we get to point where people other than me implementing access ←

10:16:02 <oeddie> SM: is mozilla working on it

Unknown SM: is mozilla working on it ←

10:16:55 <oeddie> http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/AccesskeyRequirements

http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/AccesskeyRequirements ←

10:18:00 <oeddie> http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5/AccesskeyRequirements

http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/HTML5/AccesskeyRequirements ←

10:19:36 <oeddie> SM: tricky bit is require UAs provide mechanism for overriding access keys

Unknown SM: tricky bit is require UAs provide mechanism for overriding access keys ←

10:19:48 <oeddie> GJR: Opera satisfies that requirement, but not for access elemet

Unknown GJR: Opera satisfies that requirement, but not for access elemet ←

10:20:27 <oeddie> SM: implementing in plug-in tough to make portable

Unknown SM: implementing in plug-in tough to make portable ←

10:20:42 <oeddie> SP: use script?

Steven Pemberton: use script? ←

10:21:17 <oeddie> SM: use developement framework like google gears, user can explicitly add access, but no support at javascript level and no portable plugin

Unknown SM: use developement framework like google gears, user can explicitly add access, but no support at javascript level and no portable plugin ←

10:21:31 <oeddie> SP: we do say MUST on override

Steven Pemberton: we do say MUST on override ←

10:21:59 <oeddie> RM: average feature - if that aspect important do implementation for it

Roland Merrick: average feature - if that aspect important do implementation for it ←

10:22:41 <oeddie> GJR: something along ubiquity-xforms model for access?

Unknown GJR: something along ubiquity-xforms model for access? ←

10:22:54 <oeddie> SM: consistency/permanance is a SHOULD

Unknown SM: consistency/permanance is a SHOULD ←

10:23:00 <oeddie> RM: could stick into session cookie

Roland Merrick: could stick into session cookie ←

10:23:10 <oeddie> SM: one could....

Unknown SM: one could.... ←

10:23:40 <oeddie> SP: write page that allows user to specify binding

Steven Pemberton: write page that allows user to specify binding ←

10:23:58 <oeddie> SM: specific web site or collection of pages -- script has to be embedded in page

Unknown SM: specific web site or collection of pages -- script has to be embedded in page ←

10:24:21 <oeddie> SP: cookie doesn't have to be site speficic

Steven Pemberton: cookie doesn't have to be site speficic ←

10:24:31 <oeddie> RM: demonstrate that effect can be achived in User Agent

Roland Merrick: demonstrate that effect can be achived in User Agent ←

10:24:52 <oeddie> SM: in terms of schedule, Access going to take longer to get out of CR than the rest

Unknown SM: in terms of schedule, Access going to take longer to get out of CR than the rest ←

10:24:58 <oeddie> RM: 6 months?

Roland Merrick: 6 months? ←

10:25:10 <oeddie> SM: accepting input through 15 March 2009

Unknown SM: accepting input through 15 March 2009 ←

10:25:27 <oeddie> SM: can always extend, but can never contract

Unknown SM: can always extend, but can never contract ←

10:25:52 <oeddie> SP: date by which may reach exit criteria

Steven Pemberton: date by which may reach exit criteria ←

10:26:49 <oeddie> proposed resolution: send Access to CR; exit criteria 15 March 2009 ????

proposed resolution: send Access to CR; exit criteria 15 March 2009 ???? ←

10:28:42 <oeddie> RM: in intro final paragraph remove :the needs of the Accessiblity community."

Roland Merrick: in intro final paragraph remove :the needs of the Accessiblity community." ←

10:28:44 <oeddie> SM: ok

Unknown SM: ok ←

10:29:54 <oeddie> SM: Logical successor to accesskey - then put in pointers

Unknown SM: Logical successor to accesskey - then put in pointers ←

10:30:36 <oeddie> RM: good bits in conformance - chameleon version again, but all in native side - if not this, and not this, have to infer it is the other?

Roland Merrick: good bits in conformance - chameleon version again, but all in native side - if not this, and not this, have to infer it is the other? ←

10:31:11 <oeddie> RM: possible to write things if not in XHTML NS do this; if not in XML NS can still use

Roland Merrick: possible to write things if not in XHTML NS do this; if not in XML NS can still use ←

10:31:20 <oeddie> SM: huh?

Unknown SM: huh? ←

10:31:45 <oeddie> RM: 1) if not in XHTML NS do this, if are in XHTML NS, do this

Roland Merrick: 1) if not in XHTML NS do this, if are in XHTML NS, do this ←

10:32:14 <oeddie> SM: don't think 2 pieces: document, not host language conformance

Unknown SM: don't think 2 pieces: document, not host language conformance ←

10:32:32 <oeddie> RM: does this statement say you couldn't incorporate XHTML Access into HTML5?

Roland Merrick: does this statement say you couldn't incorporate XHTML Access into HTML5? ←

10:32:59 <oeddie> RM: makes PF request for Access Module in HTML5 more difficult

Roland Merrick: makes PF request for Access Module in HTML5 more difficult ←

10:33:08 <oeddie> SM: HTML5 in same namespace

Unknown SM: HTML5 in same namespace ←

10:33:27 <oeddie> SM: if write document not in XHTML NS and doesn not have appropriate NS, have to use our NS

Unknown SM: if write document not in XHTML NS and doesn not have appropriate NS, have to use our NS ←

10:34:02 <oeddie> RM: if document not in XHTML NS the following is required; HTML5 in XHTML NS, so don't need to worry; implied by spec that use in HTML5 covered

Roland Merrick: if document not in XHTML NS the following is required; HTML5 in XHTML NS, so don't need to worry; implied by spec that use in HTML5 covered ←

10:34:35 <oeddie> RM: if don't have that, must do this; if are in XHTML NS don't worry -- nothing needed to do because Access Module in same NS

Roland Merrick: if don't have that, must do this; if are in XHTML NS don't worry -- nothing needed to do because Access Module in same NS ←

10:35:22 <oeddie> RM: trying to find positive take on spec, which i think this does

Roland Merrick: trying to find positive take on spec, which i think this does ←

10:35:40 <oeddie> RM: new attribute @order

Roland Merrick: new attribute @order ←

10:36:11 <oeddie> SP: added one new attribute, @order in response to specific LC request

Steven Pemberton: added one new attribute, @order in response to specific LC request ←

10:36:26 <oeddie> RM: "keys or other events" -- keys in quotes because ?

Roland Merrick: "keys or other events" -- keys in quotes because ? ←

10:36:51 <oeddie> GJR: explained in 3.1.2

Unknown GJR: explained in 3.1.2 ←

10:38:02 <oeddie> GJR: key is an abstraction and historical

Unknown GJR: key is an abstraction and historical ←

10:38:13 <oeddie> RM: SHOULD persist over sessions?

Roland Merrick: SHOULD persist over sessions? ←

10:38:14 <oeddie> SM: yes

Unknown SM: yes ←

10:38:26 <oeddie> SM: a lot of changes in reaction to comments from SVG group

Unknown SM: a lot of changes in reaction to comments from SVG group ←

10:40:01 <oeddie> RM: MediaDesc link http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstraction.html#dt_MediaDesc

Roland Merrick: MediaDesc link http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstraction.html#dt_MediaDesc ←

10:40:53 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-css3-mediaqueries-20081015/

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/WD-css3-mediaqueries-20081015/ ←

10:41:31 <oeddie> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstraction.html#dt_MediaDesc

http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization/abstraction.html#dt_MediaDesc ←

10:41:40 <oeddie> SM: it is to M12n

Unknown SM: it is to M12n ←

10:41:45 <oeddie> SP: derrived from CSS?

Steven Pemberton: derrived from CSS? ←

10:41:47 <oeddie> SM: no

Unknown SM: no ←

10:42:46 <oeddie> 1. The value is a comma-separated list of entries. For example, media="screen, 3d-glasses, print and resolution > 90dpi" is mapped to:

1. The value is a comma-separated list of entries. For example, media="screen, 3d-glasses, print and resolution > 90dpi" is mapped to: ←

10:42:46 <oeddie>       "screen"

"screen" ←

10:42:46 <oeddie>       "3d-glasses"

"3d-glasses" ←

10:42:46 <oeddie>       "print and resolution > 90dpi"

"print and resolution > 90dpi" ←

10:42:57 <oeddie> 2. Each entry is truncated just before the first character that isn't a US ASCII letter [a-zA-Z] (ISO 10646 hex 41-5a, 61-7a), digit [0-9] (hex 30-39), or hyphen-minus (hex 2d). In the example, this gives:

2. Each entry is truncated just before the first character that isn't a US ASCII letter [a-zA-Z] (ISO 10646 hex 41-5a, 61-7a), digit [0-9] (hex 30-39), or hyphen-minus (hex 2d). In the example, this gives: ←

10:42:57 <oeddie>       "screen"

"screen" ←

10:42:57 <oeddie>       "3d-glasses"

"3d-glasses" ←

10:42:57 <oeddie>       "print"

"print" ←

10:43:07 <oeddie> 3. A case-insensitive match is then made with the set of media types defined above. User agents may ignore entries that don't match. In the example we are left with screen and print.

3. A case-insensitive match is then made with the set of media types defined above. User agents may ignore entries that don't match. In the example we are left with screen and print. ←

10:43:07 <oeddie> Note. Style sheets may include media-dependent variations within them (e.g., the CSS @media construct). In such cases it may be appropriate to use "media =all".

Note. Style sheets may include media-dependent variations within them (e.g., the CSS @media construct). In such cases it may be appropriate to use "media =all". ←

10:43:56 <oeddie> RM: seems ok to me

Roland Merrick: seems ok to me ←

10:44:02 <oeddie> SP: activate attribute change?

Steven Pemberton: activate attribute change? ←

10:44:08 <oeddie> SM: yes and no

Unknown SM: yes and no ←

10:44:22 <oeddie> SM: DougS suggested "true" and "false" which struck me as better

Unknown SM: DougS suggested "true" and "false" which struck me as better ←

10:44:47 <oeddie> RM looks ok to me -- other comments

RM looks ok to me -- other comments ←

10:45:51 <oeddie> SM: has same issues with default prefix that access did

Unknown SM: has same issues with default prefix that role did ←

10:46:01 <oeddie> s/access did/role did

10:46:22 <oeddie> SM: host language could override, but preserve both values

Unknown SM: host language could override, but preserve both values ←

10:46:59 <oeddie> RM: only CURIEs used for roles, so brings in role

Roland Merrick: only CURIEs used for roles, so brings in role ←

10:47:35 <oeddie> RM: agree on criteria?

Roland Merrick: agree on criteria? ←

10:47:39 <oeddie> SP: yes

Steven Pemberton: yes ←

10:47:45 <oeddie> RM: so need implementation

Roland Merrick: so need implementation ←

10:47:57 <oeddie> RM: do need to set up test plan and test cases

Roland Merrick: do need to set up test plan and test cases ←

10:48:05 <oeddie> SM: do we have to do that before CR?

Unknown SM: do we have to do that before CR? ←

10:48:14 <oeddie> SP: no, but have to have them before exit CR

Steven Pemberton: no, but have to have them before exit CR ←

10:48:35 <oeddie> RM: create disposition of comments doc?

Roland Merrick: create disposition of comments doc? ←

10:48:37 <oeddie> SM: yes

Unknown SM: yes ←

10:48:53 <oeddie> RESOLVED: Access Module should move to CR

RESOLVED: Access Module should move to CR with exit criteria 15 March 2009 ←

10:49:01 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

10:49:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie ←

10:50:32 <oeddie> s/Access Module should move to CR/Access Module should move to CR with exit criteria 15 March 2009

10:50:37 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

10:50:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie ←

10:51:55 <Steven> #html-wg

Steven Pemberton: #html-wg ←

10:51:59 <oeddie> BREAK FOR LUNCH: HTML5 Joint Session in 70 minutes time; discussions in #html-wg

BREAK FOR LUNCH: HTML5 Joint Session in 70 minutes time; discussions in #html-wg ←

10:52:13 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

10:52:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie ←

10:52:18 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita ←

10:52:25 <Zakim> -Executive_3

Zakim IRC Bot: -Executive_3 ←

10:52:26 <ShaneM> CR ready draft of XHTML Access is at http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20081023/

Unknown ShaneM: CR ready draft of XHTML Access is at http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml-access-20081023/ ←

10:52:31 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

10:52:33 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has ended ←

10:52:34 <Zakim> Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Executive_3, ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Gregory_Rosmaita, Executive_3, ShaneM ←

10:52:50 <oeddie> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/issues/1

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/tracker/issues/1 ←

10:53:03 <Roland_> rrsagent, make minutes

Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make minutes ←

10:53:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html Roland_

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html Roland_ ←

10:54:23 <oeddie> by the way, i pointed out to the HTML5 people during the PF joint meeting is that we need a text/html+ARIA profile for validation, NOT an HTML+ARIA

by the way, i pointed out to the HTML5 people during the PF joint meeting is that we need a text/html+ARIA profile for validation, NOT an HTML+ARIA ←

10:54:48 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

10:54:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie ←

10:59:29 <oeddie> 3 Resolutions logged so far: 1) send CURIE to CR; 2) send Role to CR; 3) send Access to CR with exit date of 15 March 2009

3 Resolutions logged so far: 1) send CURIE to CR; 2) send Role to CR; 3) send Access to CR with exit date of 15 March 2009 ←

10:59:40 <oeddie> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

10:59:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oeddie ←

12:08:19 <Steeeven> hi

Scribe problem: the name 'Steeeven' does not match any of the 10 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Roland Merrick Unknown Uli Unknown Klaus Unknown Hauser Unknown Gerald Unknown Bleeker Steven Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

(No events recorded for 68 minutes)

Unknown Steeeven: hi ←

12:08:27 <Steeeven> now in #html-wg

Unknown Steeeven: now in #html-wg ←

12:08:49 <gregor_samsa> thanks - i forgot

Scribe problem: the name 'gregor_samsa' does not match any of the 10 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Roland Merrick Unknown Uli Unknown Klaus Unknown Hauser Unknown Gerald Unknown Bleeker Steven Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown gregor_samsa: thanks - i forgot ←

13:07:31 <Steeeven> Steeeven has changed the topic to: #xhtml html-wg sesh ends at 13:30 UTC. Coffee break after that, back at 14:00 UTC

(No events recorded for 58 minutes)

Unknown Steeeven: Steeeven has changed the topic to: #xhtml html-wg sesh ends at 13:30 UTC. Coffee break after that, back at 14:00 UTC ←

14:07:35 <Steven> hi there

(No events recorded for 60 minutes)

Steven Pemberton: hi there ←

14:07:37 <Steven> zakim, code?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, code? ←

14:07:48 <Steven> zakim, code?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, code? ←

14:07:48 <Zakim> sorry, Steven, I don't know what conference this is

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Steven, I don't know what conference this is ←

14:07:53 <Steven> zakim, this is xhtml

Steven Pemberton: zakim, this is xhtml ←

14:07:53 <Zakim> Steven, I see IA_XHTML2()3:00AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be xhtml".

Zakim IRC Bot: Steven, I see IA_XHTML2()3:00AM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be xhtml". ←

14:08:07 <Steven> zakim, this will be xhtml

Steven Pemberton: zakim, this will be xhtml ←

14:08:07 <Zakim> ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()3:00AM scheduled to start 428 minutes ago

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()3:00AM scheduled to start 428 minutes ago ←

14:08:18 <ShaneM> once again I get to say "low tech crap"

Unknown ShaneM: once again I get to say "low tech crap" ←

14:08:26 <Steven> zakim, code?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, code? ←

14:08:26 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), Steven ←

14:08:35 <Steven> zakim, dial executive_3

Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial executive_3 ←

14:08:35 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←

14:08:36 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has now started ←

14:08:38 <Zakim> +Executive_3

Zakim IRC Bot: +Executive_3 ←

14:08:43 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita ←

14:08:52 <Zakim> +McCarron

Zakim IRC Bot: +McCarron ←

14:09:05 <ShaneM> zakim, McCarron is ShaneM

Unknown ShaneM: zakim, McCarron is ShaneM ←

14:09:05 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM; got it ←

14:09:29 <oedipus> zakim, oedipus is Gregory_Rosmaita

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 10 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Roland Merrick Unknown Uli Unknown Klaus Unknown Hauser Unknown Gerald Unknown Bleeker Steven Pemberton Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown oedipus: zakim, oedipus is Gregory_Rosmaita ←

14:09:29 <Zakim> sorry, oedipus, I do not recognize a party named 'oedipus'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, oedipus, I do not recognize a party named 'oedipus' ←

14:09:34 <oedipus> zakim, mute me

Unknown oedipus: zakim, mute me ←

14:09:34 <Zakim> sorry, oedipus, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, oedipus, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←

14:10:37 <oedipus> zakim, Gregory_Rosmaita is oedipus

Unknown oedipus: zakim, Gregory_Rosmaita is oedipus ←

14:10:37 <Zakim> +oedipus; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +oedipus; got it ←

14:10:42 <oedipus> zakim, mute me

Unknown oedipus: zakim, mute me ←

14:10:42 <Zakim> oedipus should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: oedipus should now be muted ←

14:11:03 <oedipus> zakim, unmute me

Unknown oedipus: zakim, unmute me ←

14:11:03 <Zakim> oedipus should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: oedipus should no longer be muted ←

14:11:18 <oedipus> zakim, mute me

Unknown oedipus: zakim, mute me ←

14:11:18 <Zakim> oedipus should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: oedipus should now be muted ←

created using i/READJOURN/ScribeNick: oedipus

(Scribe set to Unknown oedipus)

14:11:28 <oedipus> READJOURN

READJOURN ←

14:11:37 <oedipus> SM: plan to adjourn in approx 1 hour

Unknown SM: plan to adjourn in approx 1 hour ←

14:11:41 <oedipus> SP: that's the plan

Steven Pemberton: that's the plan ←

14:11:59 <oedipus> RM: couple of related items - script @implements features

Roland Merrick: couple of related items - script @implements features ←

14:12:32 <oedipus> RM: put on SCRIPT element in XML Events 2; step back to 1.2 script module?

Roland Merrick: put on SCRIPT element in XML Events 2; step back to 1.2 script module? ←

14:12:52 <oedipus> SP: pleased with positive reaction yesterday of using this method of implementing XML technologies;

Steven Pemberton: pleased with positive reaction yesterday of using this method of implementing XML technologies; ←

14:13:45 <oedipus> RM: have idea -- feature can refer to namespace

Roland Merrick: have idea -- feature can refer to namespace ←

14:13:51 <oedipus> RM: compatible with that idea

Roland Merrick: compatible with that idea ←

14:14:12 <Roland_> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xml-events-20081020/#s_script_module

Roland Merrick: http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xml-events-20081020/#s_script_module ←

14:14:37 <oedipus> RM: Script Module in XML Events 2 - talking about @implements attribute

Roland Merrick: Script Module in XML Events 2 - talking about @implements attribute ←

14:14:51 <oedipus> RM: only additional attribute; rest inherited

Roland Merrick: only additional attribute; rest inherited ←

14:16:12 <ShaneM> call it "Script implements Attribute Module"

Unknown ShaneM: call it "Script implements Attribute Module" ←

14:16:20 <oedipus> RM: optional attribute; provides implementation of feature defined by that URI; script should be loaded if UA doesn't have implementation of the URI referenced

Roland Merrick: optional attribute; provides implementation of feature defined by that URI; script should be loaded if UA doesn't have implementation of the URI referenced ←

14:16:42 <oedipus> SM: simple extension to scripting module for 1.1

Unknown SM: simple extension to scripting module for 1.1 ←

14:17:01 <oedipus> RM: also suggest that say URI

Roland Merrick: also suggest that say URI ←

14:18:03 <oedipus> SM: applicability outside of XHTML 1.2?

Unknown SM: applicability outside of XHTML 1.2? ←

14:18:06 <oedipus> RM: XHTML5

Roland Merrick: XHTML5 ←

14:18:19 <oedipus> GJR: Expert Handlers for Specialized Markup Languages

Unknown GJR: Expert Handlers for Specialized Markup Languages ←

14:19:02 <oedipus> unmute me

unmute me ←

14:19:08 <oedipus> zakim, unmute me

zakim, unmute me ←

14:19:08 <Zakim> oedipus should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: oedipus should no longer be muted ←

14:21:17 <oedipus> SM: @implements is a fine thing; can provide a script that would help support it

Unknown SM: @implements is a fine thing; can provide a script that would help support it ←

14:21:35 <oedipus> RM: access module that way -- script implements XHTML Access

Roland Merrick: access module that way -- script implements XHTML Access ←

14:21:52 <oedipus> SM: need script to implement implements

Unknown SM: need script to implement implements ←

14:22:00 <Steven> <script src="access.js" implements="xhtml:access"/>

Steven Pemberton: <script src="access.js" implements="xhtml:access"/> ←

14:22:22 <oedipus> SM: script that implements implements and when gets initiallized (puts something into onLoadEventQueue) and disables all other events

Unknown SM: script that implements implements and when gets initiallized (puts something into onLoadEventQueue) and disables all other events ←

14:22:46 <oedipus> SM: is there a converse to @implements - @required?

Unknown SM: is there a converse to @implements - @required? ←

14:23:01 <oedipus> GJR: real life example is MathML - local script or URI

Unknown GJR: real life example is MathML - local script or URI ←

14:23:59 <oedipus> RM: what are @implements features?

Roland Merrick: what are @implements features? ←

14:24:06 <Roland_> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2008/ws/soapjms/soapjms.html?content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8#soap-binding

Roland Merrick: http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2008/ws/soapjms/soapjms.html?content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8#soap-binding ←

14:24:24 <oedipus> RM: define features in specification - URI that can be abbreviated

Roland Merrick: define features in specification - URI that can be abbreviated ←

14:24:36 <oedipus> RM: define features of this spec on same basis

Roland Merrick: define features of this spec on same basis ←

14:25:08 <oedipus> RM: what features ought to be -- off end of xmlns -- could be bad, could be good; feature/featureName

Roland Merrick: what features ought to be -- off end of xmlns -- could be bad, could be good; feature/featureName ←

14:25:14 <oedipus> SP: using QNames

Steven Pemberton: using QNames ←

14:25:16 <oedipus> RM: no

Roland Merrick: no ←

14:25:33 <oedipus> RM: SOAP happens to be used for QNames,but important thing is URI

Roland Merrick: SOAP happens to be used for QNames,but important thing is URI ←

14:26:37 <oedipus> SM: action to produce features document

Unknown SM: action to produce features document ←

14:27:05 <ShaneM> ACTION: ShaneM to produce a features document that describes the various feature names for the XHTML collection.

ACTION: ShaneM to produce a features document that describes the various feature names for the XHTML collection. ←

14:27:05 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - ShaneM

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - ShaneM ←

14:27:16 <ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to produce a features document that describes the various feature names for the XHTML collection.

ACTION: Shane to produce a features document that describes the various feature names for the XHTML collection. ←

14:27:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-14 - Produce a features document that describes the various feature names for the XHTML collection. [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-10-30].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-14 - Produce a features document that describes the various feature names for the XHTML collection. [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-10-30]. ←

14:27:49 <oedipus> RM: how to name URIs - should go in our namespace - shane will have look to see if synonomous with modules; did write XML Events as 3 module document: Handler Module, Listener Module, Script Module

Roland Merrick: how to name URIs - should go in our namespace - shane will have look to see if synonomous with modules; did write XML Events as 3 module document: Handler Module, Listener Module, Script Module ←

14:27:58 <oedipus> RM: what features for each module

Roland Merrick: what features for each module ←

14:28:10 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: XHTML2 WG FtF, Day 1

Steven Pemberton: Steven has changed the topic to: XHTML2 WG FtF, Day 1 ←

14:28:10 <oedipus> SM: gives rise to a CURIE issue

Unknown SM: gives rise to a CURIE issue ←

14:28:45 <oedipus> SM: issue:  CURIE allows host lang to define a default prefix or collection of reserve values that will map into a CURIE

Unknown SM: issue: CURIE allows host lang to define a default prefix or collection of reserve values that will map into a CURIE ←

14:29:12 <oedipus> SM: if have multiple attributes using CURIEs, do we hvave multiple collectoins ?

Unknown SM: if have multiple attributes using CURIEs, do we hvave multiple collectoins ? ←

14:29:15 <oedipus> RM: no

Roland Merrick: no ←

14:29:33 <Steven> Present+Masataka Yakura (remote)

Steven Pemberton: Present+Masataka Yakura (remote) ←

14:29:51 <oedipus> SM: for default prefixing definitely no, but then CURIE processor can't follow its nose and learn them

Unknown SM: for default prefixing definitely no, but then CURIE processor can't follow its nose and learn them ←

14:30:05 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make minutes ←

14:30:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html Steven ←

14:30:11 <oedipus> SM: do we need reserved values for a feature list?

Unknown SM: do we need reserved values for a feature list? ←

14:30:18 <oedipus> RM: could reference URI

Roland Merrick: could reference URI ←

14:30:40 <oedipus> SM: reasonable check but doesn't get to definitive source

Unknown SM: reasonable check but doesn't get to definitive source ←

14:31:01 <Steven> s/Intos/Intros/

14:31:16 <oedipus> SM: hang features off namespace  -- agree we should, but given CURIE architecture today, have to put in vocab document

Unknown SM: hang features off namespace -- agree we should, but given CURIE architecture today, have to put in vocab document ←

14:31:50 <oedipus> SM: what need in RDF of vocab is direct mapping and convention - these functions are associated with these attributes on these elements;

Unknown SM: what need in RDF of vocab is direct mapping and convention - these functions are associated with these attributes on these elements; ←

14:32:22 <oedipus> RM: when i'm processing script @implments, not concerned about issue you raised?

Roland Merrick: when i'm processing script @implments, not concerned about issue you raised? ←

14:32:36 <oedipus> SM: are if =rdfa -- how do i deference that

Unknown SM: are if =rdfa -- how do i deference that ←

14:32:48 <oedipus> SP: xml:rdfa

Steven Pemberton: xhtml:rdfa ←

14:33:02 <oedipus> RM: better off without prefix

Roland Merrick: better off without prefix ←

14:33:19 <oedipus> SM: can't say xhtml:rdfa - no xhtml: prefix

Unknown SM: can't say xhtml:rdfa - no xhtml: prefix ←

14:33:27 <oedipus> SP: CURIE - would have had to define

Steven Pemberton: CURIE - would have had to define ←

14:33:58 <oedipus> SM: in normal course of using html, never define an html prefix

Unknown SM: in normal course of using html, never define an html prefix ←

14:34:10 <oedipus> SM: can say have to define prefix or just use full URIs

Unknown SM: can say have to define prefix or just use full URIs ←

14:34:11 <Steven> implements=":rdfa"

Steven Pemberton: implements=":rdfa" ←

14:34:30 <oedipus> SP: empty prefix?  what's the prefix in xhtml when just use colon

Steven Pemberton: empty prefix? what's the prefix in xhtml when just use colon ←

14:34:39 <oedipus> SM: just colon is the xhtml vocab

Unknown SM: just colon is the xhtml vocab ←

14:34:47 <oedipus> SP: ok

Steven Pemberton: ok ←

14:34:53 <Roland_> http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab#XML-HANDLERS

Roland Merrick: http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/vocab#XML-HANDLERS ←

14:35:18 <oedipus> SP: RDFa a feature of our namespace

Steven Pemberton: RDFa a feature of our namespace ←

14:35:36 <Roland_> http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/feature#XML-HANDLERS

Roland Merrick: http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/feature#XML-HANDLERS ←

14:35:37 <oedipus> SM: not suggesting put features in vocab doc unless good way to scope them;

Unknown SM: not suggesting put features in vocab doc unless good way to scope them; ←

14:36:05 <oedipus> SM: need to invent way to scope them, but for most other people dealing with @implements, using URIs -- we can always use URIs

Unknown SM: need to invent way to scope them, but for most other people dealing with @implements, using URIs -- we can always use URIs ←

14:36:18 <oedipus> RM: trivial compared to script

Roland Merrick: trivial compared to script ←

14:36:29 <oedipus> SM: if use URI like

Unknown SM: if use URI like ←

14:37:02 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/features/rdfa-syntax

Unknown ShaneM: http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/features/rdfa-syntax ←

14:37:32 <oedipus> RM: looks fine to me

Roland Merrick: looks fine to me ←

14:37:42 <oedipus> SM: URIs have to de-reference to something

Unknown SM: URIs have to de-reference to something ←

14:37:58 <oedipus> SP: someone can turn that into a prefix and use CURIEs to write that down

Steven Pemberton: someone can turn that into a prefix and use CURIEs to write that down ←

14:38:05 <Steven> that's what I meant

Steven Pemberton: that's what I meant ←

14:38:38 <oedipus> RM: point to specification so that machine aware of rdfa-syntax

Roland Merrick: point to specification so that machine aware of rdfa-syntax ←

14:38:53 <oedipus> SM: is ok if use CURIE or URI

Unknown SM: is ok if use CURIE or URI ←

14:39:28 <Steven> s/xml/xhtml/

14:39:42 <oedipus> SM: will write this up as part of previous action item

Unknown SM: will write this up as part of previous action item ←

14:39:49 <oedipus> SM: script module - what form

Unknown SM: script module - what form ←

14:39:54 <oedipus> RM: like access element

Roland Merrick: like access element ←

14:40:04 <ShaneM> ACTION: Shane to create a Script implements Attribute Module

ACTION: Shane to create a Script implements Attribute Module ←

14:40:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-15 - Create a Script implements Attribute Module [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-10-30].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-15 - Create a Script implements Attribute Module [on Shane McCarron - due 2008-10-30]. ←

14:40:17 <oedipus> RM: if something untoward happens and don't get to do 2, then we have it as a module

Roland Merrick: if something untoward happens and don't get to do 2, then we have it as a module ←

14:40:54 <oedipus> RM: what does script implement?  the feature

Roland Merrick: what does script implement? the feature ←

14:41:11 <oedipus> SM: doesn't just have to provide mechanism

Unknown SM: doesn't just have to provide mechanism ←

14:41:23 <oedipus> SM: we want to say: tie to HasFeature of DOM somehow

Unknown SM: we want to say: tie to HasFeature of DOM somehow ←

14:41:26 <oedipus> SM: how?

Unknown SM: how? ←

14:41:42 <oedipus> RM: don't know, but agree -- register DOM somewhere, somehow

Roland Merrick: don't know, but agree -- register DOM somewhere, somehow ←

14:41:57 <oedipus> SM: need to get UA devs to use well defined URIs or won't work

Unknown SM: need to get UA devs to use well defined URIs or won't work ←

14:42:23 <oedipus> RM: should be encouraging into the future; becomes part of our spec - should be reflected in dom

Roland Merrick: should be encouraging into the future; becomes part of our spec - HasFeature should be reflected in DOM ←

14:42:48 <oedipus> s/should be reflected in dom/HasFeature should be reflected in DOM

14:43:03 <Steven> Regrets+MarkB

Steven Pemberton: Regrets+MarkB ←

14:43:06 <oedipus> SM: DOM3 - who developing?

Unknown SM: DOM3 - who developing? ←

14:43:16 <oedipus> RM: WebAps

Roland Merrick: WebAps ←

14:44:03 <oedipus> SM: DOM Level 3 Core has the HasFeature method as part of implementation interface, so good idea to specify in our documents implementations return this value when DOM called

Unknown SM: DOM Level 3 Core has the HasFeature method as part of implementation interface, so good idea to specify in our documents implementations return this value when DOM called ←

14:44:05 <Roland_> var isImplemented = document.implementation.hasFeature("feature", "version");

Roland Merrick: var isImplemented = document.implementation.hasFeature("feature", "version"); ←

14:44:59 <oedipus> RM: has tied to HasFeature registered in DOM that this feature is supported

Roland Merrick: has tied to HasFeature registered in DOM that this feature is supported ←

14:45:18 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

14:45:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

14:45:48 <oedipus> RM: so SM going to create script implements attribute module

Roland Merrick: so SM going to create script implements attribute module ←

14:46:02 <oedipus> SM: can get infrastructure in place then you can edit it to your heart's content

Unknown SM: can get infrastructure in place then you can edit it to your heart's content ←

14:46:04 <oedipus> RM: ok

Roland Merrick: ok ←

14:46:30 <oedipus> RM: anything else need to discuss on @implements?

Roland Merrick: anything else need to discuss on @implements? ←

14:46:51 <oedipus> SP: not going to say what URIs are for us; defined elsewhere

Steven Pemberton: not going to say what URIs are for us; defined elsewhere ←

14:46:53 <ShaneM> From DOM3: To avoid possible conflicts, as a convention, names 	referring to features defined outside the DOM specification 	should be made unique.

Unknown ShaneM: From DOM3: To avoid possible conflicts, as a convention, names referring to features defined outside the DOM specification should be made unique. ←

14:47:16 <oedipus> TOPIC: XHTML 1.2

7. XHTML 1.2

14:48:13 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml12-20081017

http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2008/ED-xhtml12-20081017 ←

14:48:36 <oedipus> SP: meaningful accessible needs to be changed because Philippe thinks attack on HTML5

Steven Pemberton: meaningful accessible needs to be changed because Philippe thinks attack on HTML5 ←

14:49:04 <oedipus> RM: XHTML (tm) 1.2 and leave at that

Roland Merrick: XHTML (tm) 1.2 and leave at that ←

14:49:13 <oedipus> GJR: likes subtitle, but understands politics

Unknown GJR: likes subtitle, but understands politics ←

14:49:45 <oedipus> SM: "Semantically Rich HTML That Works In Your Browser Today"

Unknown SM: "Semantically Rich HTML That Works In Your Browser Today" ←

14:50:22 <oedipus> SP: doc most close to 1.0 Strict is 1.1

Steven Pemberton: doc most close to 1.0 Strict is 1.1 ←

14:50:42 <oedipus> RM: small increments adding features to make superset of XHTML 1.1 Basic

Roland Merrick: small increments adding features to make superset of XHTML 1.1 Basic ←

14:51:01 <Steven> rdfa, inputmode, target, access, role

Steven Pemberton: rdfa, inputmode, target, access, role ←

14:51:03 <oedipus> RM: adding inputmode, return of target, access and role

Roland Merrick: adding inputmode, return of target, access and role ←

14:51:11 <oedipus> SM: didn't update Abstract

Unknown SM: didn't update Abstract ←

14:51:16 <oedipus> RM: first thing people read

Roland Merrick: first thing people read ←

14:51:34 <oedipus> GJR: also @lang -- can't find a single AT dev that triggers off xml:lang

Unknown GJR: also @lang -- can't find a single AT dev that triggers off xml:lang ←

14:52:59 <oedipus> RM: incremental update, why 1.1 - superset of 1.1 Basic - motivation behind XHTML 1.2 plus other features developed in interim that make XHTML stronger and more robust

Roland Merrick: incremental update, why 1.1 - superset of 1.1 Basic - motivation behind XHTML 1.2 plus other features developed in interim that make XHTML stronger and more robust ←

14:53:09 <ShaneM> This specification builds upon XHTML 1.1 and XHTML Basic 1.1,

Unknown ShaneM: This specification builds upon XHTML 1.1 and XHTML Basic 1.1, ←

14:53:09 <ShaneM> incorporating new technologies to improve accessibility and

Unknown ShaneM: incorporating new technologies to improve accessibility and ←

14:53:09 <ShaneM> integration with the semantic web.

Unknown ShaneM: integration with the semantic web. ←

14:53:34 <oedipus> RM: making a true super-set of features in Basic 1.1

Roland Merrick: making a true super-set of features in Basic 1.1 ←

14:53:53 <oedipus> RM: should have inputmode in 1.2

Roland Merrick: should have inputmode in 1.2 ←

14:54:32 <oedipus> RM: Basic 1.1 should run in 1.2 processor; hook to rationale as to why did in first place; had wrinkle in Basic 1.1 and this is way of ironing out wrinkle

Roland Merrick: Basic 1.1 should run in 1.2 processor; hook to rationale as to why did in first place; had wrinkle in Basic 1.1 and this is way of ironing out wrinkle ←

14:54:54 <oedipus> SM: reintroduces some features left out of XHTML 1.1 -- @target and @lang

Unknown SM: reintroduces some features left out of XHTML 1.1 -- @target and @lang ←

14:55:22 <oedipus> GJR: but more tightly describing as author proposed/suggestion user disposes

Unknown GJR: but more tightly describing as author proposed/suggestion user disposes ←

14:56:33 <ShaneM> <p>This specification builds upon XHTML 1.1 and XHTML Basic 1.1,

Unknown ShaneM: <p>This specification builds upon XHTML 1.1 and XHTML Basic 1.1, ←

14:56:34 <ShaneM> helping to create an environment that is a superset of XHTML Basic

Unknown ShaneM: helping to create an environment that is a superset of XHTML Basic ←

14:56:34 <ShaneM> 1.1.  It also reintroduces widely requested features that were

Unknown ShaneM: 1.1. It also reintroduces widely requested features that were ←

14:56:34 <ShaneM> not included in XHTML 1.1.  Finally, it

Unknown ShaneM: not included in XHTML 1.1. Finally, it ←

14:56:34 <ShaneM> incorporating new technologies to improve accessibility and

Unknown ShaneM: incorporating new technologies to improve accessibility and ←

14:56:34 <ShaneM> integration with the semantic web.</p>

Unknown ShaneM: integration with the semantic web.</p> ←

14:57:03 <oedipus> http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/MarkUp

http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/MarkUp ←

14:57:10 <oedipus> http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/MarkUp/Modularization

http://esw.w3.org/topic/PF/XTech/MarkUp/Modularization ←

14:58:12 <oedipus> RM: differences summarized as: reintroduction of @target and @lang, addition of @inputmode @implements on src and question of absorbing all the ARIA attributes

Roland Merrick: differences summarized as: reintroduction of @target and @lang, addition of @inputmode @implements on src and question of absorbing all the ARIA attributes ←

14:58:34 <oedipus> RM: status of ARIA attributes?

Roland Merrick: status of ARIA attributes? ←

15:01:09 <oedipus> RM: candidate items: @target, @lang, @inputmode, @implements (from Recs or borrowed from past); Access and ARIA in second category

Roland Merrick: candidate items: @target, @lang, @inputmode, @implements (from Recs or borrowed from past); Access and ARIA in second category ←

15:02:50 <oedipus> RM: in process, a candidate - if don't get into 1.2 wait until get into XHTML2

Roland Merrick: in process, a candidate - if don't get into 1.2 wait until get into XHTML2 ←

15:05:23 <Steven> Al is here

Steven Pemberton: Al is here ←

15:06:26 <oedipus> SM: put ARIA stuff in or not?

Unknown SM: put ARIA stuff in or not? ←

15:07:02 <oedipus> RM: should have "Candidate, but not Yet" section for ARIA and other modules that haven't progressed far enough yet to be normative

Roland Merrick: should have "Candidate, but not Yet" section for ARIA and other modules that haven't progressed far enough yet to be normative ←

15:07:07 <oedipus> WAI-ARIA

WAI-ARIA ←

15:07:24 <oedipus> RM: Access Module very much in the Candidate status --

Roland Merrick: Access Module very much in the Candidate status -- ←

15:07:36 <oedipus> SM: don't know value of 1.2 without Access and ARIA

Unknown SM: don't know value of 1.2 without Access and ARIA ←

15:08:24 <oedipus> RM: time-scales all theoretical - access implementations?  aria?

Roland Merrick: time-scales all theoretical - access implementations? aria? ←

15:09:12 <oedipus> SM: fair point; role and RDFa no problem

Unknown SM: fair point; role and RDFa no problem ←

15:09:50 <oedipus> GJR: once ARIA spec frozen in CR for all intents and purposes -- already have 2 implementations

Unknown GJR: once ARIA spec frozen in CR for all intents and purposes -- already have 2 implementations ←

15:10:33 <oedipus> SP: start 9 CET

Steven Pemberton: start 9 CET ←

15:10:40 <oedipus> SM: update 1.2 and send out notice

Unknown SM: update 1.2 and send out notice ←

15:10:48 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM ←

15:11:04 <Zakim> -oedipus

Zakim IRC Bot: -oedipus ←

15:11:05 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()3:00AM has ended ←

15:11:06 <Zakim> Attendees were Executive_3, ShaneM, oedipus

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Executive_3, ShaneM, oedipus ←

15:11:19 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

15:11:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

15:11:29 <oedipus> zakim, please part

zakim, please part ←

15:11:58 <ShaneM> just remembered something....

Unknown ShaneM: just remembered something.... ←

15:12:04 <oedipus> whazzat?

whazzat? ←

15:12:14 <ShaneM> XHTML 1.2 - should we be disabling @accesskey if we include the access element?

Unknown ShaneM: XHTML 1.2 - should we be disabling @accesskey if we include the access element? ←

15:12:22 <ShaneM> or include both as a transition?

Unknown ShaneM: or include both as a transition? ←

15:12:46 <oedipus> the only way to kill it off is to disable it

the only way to kill it off is to disable it ←

15:13:00 <Steven> Roland: No

Roland Merrick: No [ Scribe Assist by Steven Pemberton ] ←

15:13:11 <Steven> ... we still want it to be a superset of the predecessors

Steven Pemberton: ... we still want it to be a superset of the predecessors ←

15:13:22 <ShaneM> yeah, that's what I was thinking.   Okay.

Unknown ShaneM: yeah, that's what I was thinking. Okay. ←

15:13:29 <Roland_> rrsagent, make minutes

Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make minutes ←

15:13:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html Roland_

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html Roland_ ←

15:14:10 <oedipus> i have asked HTML WG several times for support for the access module as well as accesskey, but to no avail

i have asked HTML WG several times for support for the access module as well as accesskey, but to no avail ←

15:14:52 <oedipus> i/READJOURN/ScribeNick: oedipus

15:15:00 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes ←

15:15:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus ←

15:16:00 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part

rrsagent, please part ←

15:16:00 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-actions.rdf : ←

15:16:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane to craft an example script to generically transform a string to a CURIE using the XML DOM for inclusion or reference from the CURIE spec. [1]

ACTION: Shane to craft an example script to generically transform a string to a CURIE using the XML DOM for inclusion or reference from the CURIE spec. [1] ←

15:16:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-irc#T09-52-03

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-irc#T09-52-03 ←

15:16:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ShaneM to produce a features document that describes the various feature names for the XHTML collection. [2]

ACTION: ShaneM to produce a features document that describes the various feature names for the XHTML collection. [2] ←

15:16:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-irc#T14-27-05

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-irc#T14-27-05 ←

15:16:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane to produce a features document that describes the various feature names for the XHTML collection. [3]

ACTION: Shane to produce a features document that describes the various feature names for the XHTML collection. [3] ←

15:16:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-irc#T14-27-16

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-irc#T14-27-16 ←

15:16:00 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shane to create a Script implements Attribute Module [4]

ACTION: Shane to create a Script implements Attribute Module [4] ←

15:16:00 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-irc#T14-40-04

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-xhtml-irc#T14-40-04 ←

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