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XHTML2 Weekly Teleconference

Minutes of 02 July 2008

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0000
Seen
Gregory Rosmaita, Mark Birbeck, Roland Merrick, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton, Tina Holmboe, Toshihiko Yamakami, Unknown yamx
Regrets
Mark Birbeck
Chair
Roland Merrick
Scribe
Steven Pemberton, Gregory Rosmaita
Previous Meeting
http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-xhtml-minutes
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics

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13:43:57 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-xhtml-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-xhtml-irc

13:44:14 <RolandMerrick> RolandMerrick has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0000.html

Roland Merrick: RolandMerrick has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0000.html

13:44:21 <RolandMerrick> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0000.html
13:44:42 <RolandMerrick> Meeting: XHTML2 WG Weekly Teleconference
13:45:35 <Roland> Zakim, this is XHTML2

Roland Merrick: Zakim, this is XHTML2

13:45:35 <Zakim> ok, Roland; that matches IA_XHTML2()9:45AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Roland; that matches IA_XHTML2()9:45AM

13:45:51 <Roland> Zakim, list

Roland Merrick: Zakim, list

13:45:51 <Zakim> I see MWI_(DWEU)8:00AM, Team_W3M()8:00AM, IA_XHTML2()9:45AM active

Zakim IRC Bot: I see MWI_(DWEU)8:00AM, Team_W3M()8:00AM, IA_XHTML2()9:45AM active

13:45:53 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are MWI_BPWG(Checker TF)10:00AM, I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM, T&S_EGOV()9:00AM, Team_(rifc)11:53Z

Zakim IRC Bot: also scheduled at this time are MWI_BPWG(Checker TF)10:00AM, I18N_CoreWG()10:00AM, T&S_EGOV()9:00AM, Team_(rifc)11:53Z

13:47:04 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM

13:47:34 <Roland> rrsagent, make minutes

Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make minutes

13:47:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-xhtml-minutes.html Roland

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-xhtml-minutes.html Roland

13:47:41 <Roland> rrsagent, make log public

Roland Merrick: rrsagent, make log public

13:47:47 <Zakim> +Tina

Zakim IRC Bot: +Tina

13:48:07 <Roland> Chair: Roland
13:48:17 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617

13:48:17 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made

13:48:19 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

13:48:21 <Zakim> +??P10

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10

13:48:36 <yamx> zakim, ??P10 is yamx

Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown yamx: zakim, ??P10 is yamx

13:48:36 <Zakim> +yamx; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +yamx; got it

13:48:42 <Steven> Scribe: Steven

(Scribe set to Steven Pemberton)

13:49:34 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita

13:50:14 <oedipus> ScribeNick: oedipus

(Scribe set to Gregory Rosmaita)

13:50:28 <Steven> rrsagent, here?

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, here?

13:50:28 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-xhtml-irc#T13-50-28

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-xhtml-irc#T13-50-28

13:50:57 <oedipus> Yam: wait for more participants for mobile profile 1.3 and xhtml basic 1.1 PR - stable, can now make tests

Toshihiko Yamakami: wait for more participants for mobile profile 1.3 and xhtml basic 1.1 PR - stable, can now make tests

13:51:08 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jul/0000
13:51:40 <Steven> Meeting: XHTML2 Weekly Teleconference
13:51:57 <oedipus> Yam: OMA liaisoning finished, but my mission is mobile browsing, so i cannot continue to physically participate so i am saying goodby to group but if have any questions about mobile or testing, just ping me

Toshihiko Yamakami: OMA liaisoning finished, but my mission is mobile browsing, so i cannot continue to physically participate so i am saying goodby to group but if have any questions about mobile or testing, just ping me

13:52:06 <Steven> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-xhtml-minutes
13:52:07 <oedipus> RM: thank you Yam for all your valuable contributions

Steven Pemberton: thank you Yam for all your valuable contributions

13:52:14 <Steven> s/RM/SP/
13:52:40 <oedipus> Yam: any issues on mobile browsing, will be more than happy to help

Toshihiko Yamakami: any issues on mobile browsing, will be more than happy to help

13:52:42 <Zakim> -yamx

Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -yamx

13:52:44 <oedipus> SM: thank you yam

Shane McCarron: thank you yam

13:53:06 <oedipus> TOPIC: Draft TAG finding "Passwords in the Clear"

1. Draft TAG finding "Passwords in the Clear"

13:53:15 <oedipus> RM: Shane & Tina were going to explore

Roland Merrick: Shane & Tina were going to explore

13:53:22 <oedipus> SM: running battle in TAG about it

Shane McCarron: running battle in TAG about it

13:53:29 <oedipus> SP: background?

Steven Pemberton: background?

13:53:30 <yamx> Just drop mail to "Toshihiko.Yamakami@access-company.com" for any i12n or mobile browser issues.

Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'yamx' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown yamx: Just drop mail to "Toshihiko.Yamakami@access-company.com" for any i12n or mobile browser issues.

13:53:38 <Steven> ok

Steven Pemberton: ok

13:53:40 <oedipus> thanks yam -- you will be missed

thanks yam -- you will be missed

13:53:55 <Steven> Regrets: MarkB
13:54:45 <oedipus> SM: some in TAG adamant that policies stated in doc are good idea, others who don't - impossible to reengineer all tech to support passwrods in clear; weird thing is they are ignoring SSL which is most widely used security layer - my comment what is wrong with SSL?

Shane McCarron: some in TAG adamant that policies stated in doc are good idea, others who don't - impossible to reengineer all tech to support passwrods in clear; weird thing is they are ignoring SSL which is most widely used security layer - my comment what is wrong with SSL?

13:55:15 <oedipus> TH: didn't see anything more than last time i looked prior to f2f; no comments on it - good idea, but is it practical?

Tina Holmboe: didn't see anything more than last time i looked prior to f2f; no comments on it - good idea, but is it practical?

13:55:40 <oedipus> SM: not much in there - basically "make sure don't send passwords in clear and if you do, fix it"

Shane McCarron: not much in there - basically "make sure don't send passwords in clear and if you do, fix it"

13:56:02 <oedipus> RM: request to group to review - next steps? shane propose response from group on list

Roland Merrick: request to group to review - next steps? shane propose response from group on list

13:56:52 <oedipus> TH: the document won't be read by those except by those already involved in issue; don't understand why XHTML review needed?  of course, shouldn't send passwords in clear

Tina Holmboe: the document won't be read by those except by those already involved in issue; don't understand why XHTML review needed? of course, shouldn't send passwords in clear

13:56:59 <oedipus> RM: 2 ways of rendering password

Roland Merrick: 2 ways of rendering password

13:57:06 <oedipus> TH: both still need to be translated

Tina Holmboe: both still need to be translated

13:57:48 <oedipus> SP: when you fill in things like a password in an HTML/XHTML form, what you type in is stored somewhere, so are passwords subject to attack via javascript

Steven Pemberton: when you fill in things like a password in an HTML/XHTML form, what you type in is stored somewhere, so are passwords subject to attack via javascript

13:57:51 <oedipus> SM: sure

Shane McCarron: sure

13:58:02 <oedipus> TH: possibly - no check of what's on disk

Tina Holmboe: possibly - no check of what's on disk

13:58:10 <oedipus> SM: once typed in, stored in DOM

Shane McCarron: once typed in, stored in DOM

13:58:19 <oedipus> SP: so susceptible to javascript attack and is in clear

Steven Pemberton: so susceptible to javascript attack and is in clear

13:58:44 <oedipus> SM: not encryption, just a specially rendered field - will check DOM spec

Shane McCarron: not encryption, just a specially rendered field - will check DOM spec

13:59:00 <oedipus> RM: question of DOM should say if such a DOM feature exists, use that

Roland Merrick: question of DOM should say if such a DOM feature exists, use that

13:59:28 <oedipus> SP: XForms has same problem; input control has property that says "password" and nothing else - field is subject to javascript attack

Steven Pemberton: XForms has same problem; input control has property that says "password" and nothing else - field is subject to javascript attack

14:00:14 <oedipus> TH: document in question talks about transmission - hacking way into DOM via javascript - thin connection - don't know if any point in commenting on it other than "this looks good in theory, but ..."

Tina Holmboe: document in question talks about transmission - hacking way into DOM via javascript - thin connection - don't know if any point in commenting on it other than "this looks good in theory, but ..."

14:00:42 <oedipus> SP: if both HTML and XHTML store passwords where can be attacked by JS, can grab passwords

Steven Pemberton: if both HTML and XHTML store passwords where can be attacked by JS, can grab passwords

14:01:07 <oedipus> TH: what do with passwords after grabs them?  could use XML HTTPRequest object to send somewhere, but not to separate host

Tina Holmboe: what do with passwords after grabs them? could use XML HTTPRequest object to send somewhere, but not to separate host

14:01:56 <oedipus> TH: could add note that when comes to transmission of passwords in clear, it doesn't affect us directly, but would like to poinot out the following DOM concerns and parts of DOM spec (if contained there)

Tina Holmboe: could add note that when comes to transmission of passwords in clear, it doesn't affect us directly, but would like to poinot out the following DOM concerns and parts of DOM spec (if contained there)

14:02:12 <oedipus> RM: OSes do not hold passwords in clear

Roland Merrick: OSes do not hold passwords in clear

14:02:15 <oedipus> SP: right

Steven Pemberton: right

14:02:27 <oedipus> RM: encrypted as one-way encryption

Roland Merrick: encrypted as one-way encryption

14:02:55 <oedipus> SP: DVD player did store passwords in clear and allowed hackers to hack into DVD security layer

Steven Pemberton: DVD player did store passwords in clear and allowed hackers to hack into DVD security layer

14:03:02 <oedipus> SM: will address by posting to list

Shane McCarron: will address by posting to list

14:03:11 <oedipus> TOPIC: XSD 1.1 by the SOAP-JMS Binding Working Group

2. XSD 1.1 by the SOAP-JMS Binding Working Group

14:03:29 <oedipus> RM: can you do this for us - volunteered to review new Schema draft by last call

Roland Merrick: can you do this for us - volunteered to review new Schema draft by last call

14:03:35 <Steven> Regrets+Alessio

Steven Pemberton: Regrets+Alessio

14:03:37 <oedipus> TOPIC: Calls over the Summer

3. Calls over the Summer

14:03:47 <oedipus> questionnaire: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jun/0058.html

Scribe problem: the name 'questionnaire' does not match any of the 22 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres Gerrie Shults Gregory Rosmaita John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown questionnaire: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jun/0058.html

14:03:52 <oedipus> TOPIC: CURIE Syntax:  status

4. CURIE Syntax: status

14:03:57 <oedipus> SP: sent transition request

Steven Pemberton: sent transition request

14:04:16 <oedipus> SP: question about role - issue together?

Steven Pemberton: question about role - issue together?

14:04:24 <oedipus> RM: Role not ready

Roland Merrick: Role not ready

14:04:29 <oedipus> SP: can't do together

Steven Pemberton: can't do together

14:04:36 <oedipus> RM: will address role shortly

Roland Merrick: will address role shortly

14:04:42 <oedipus> RM: rather not hold up CURIEs

Roland Merrick: rather not hold up CURIEs

14:04:53 <oedipus> SP: good news with CURIEs is loads of implementation already

Steven Pemberton: good news with CURIEs is loads of implementation already

14:05:12 <oedipus> SP: already have implementation reports for RDFa which include a lot of tests for CURIEs

Steven Pemberton: already have implementation reports for RDFa which include a lot of tests for CURIEs

14:05:21 <oedipus> SP: may be a quick CR

Steven Pemberton: may be a quick CR

14:05:32 <oedipus> TOPIC: M12N transition: status

5. M12N transition: status

14:05:57 <oedipus> RM: bits that changed as result of f2f -- short names to be fixed by Shane and IanJ

Roland Merrick: bits that changed as result of f2f -- short names to be fixed by Shane and IanJ

14:06:11 <oedipus> SM: half-way -- can't do anything to next pub anyway

Shane McCarron: half-way -- can't do anything to next pub anyway

14:06:28 <oedipus> TOPIC: M12N transition and RelaxNG

6. M12N transition and RelaxNG

14:06:42 <oedipus> SM: have draft - sent out note; no response

Shane McCarron: have draft - sent out note; no response

14:07:38 <oedipus> SM: done the proof-of-concept heavy lifting; oxygen doesn't choke on it, may not be Relax Best Practice - trying to get Norm Walsh and another individual as well as Chris Lilley to review

Shane McCarron: done the proof-of-concept heavy lifting; oxygen doesn't choke on it, may not be Relax Best Practice - trying to get Norm Walsh and another individual as well as Chris Lilley to review

14:08:13 <oedipus> SM: ChrisL the one who asked the question; think can release as PER after 1.1 out the door

Shane McCarron: ChrisL the one who asked the question; think can release as PER after 1.1 out the door

14:08:26 <oedipus> SP: know too little about RelaxNG

Steven Pemberton: know too little about RelaxNG

14:08:30 <oedipus> GJR: that makes 2 of us

Gregory Rosmaita: that makes 2 of us

14:09:51 <oedipus> SM: RelaxNG nor Schema not as powerful; we will have to define something perhaps, given the right URI here is the right Schema

Shane McCarron: RelaxNG nor Schema not as powerful; we will have to define something perhaps, given the right URI here is the right Schema

14:10:13 <oedipus> SP: says  "module not found" in a number of places

Steven Pemberton: says "module not found" in a number of places

14:10:21 <oedipus> SM: thanks for reminder will grok right know

Shane McCarron: thanks for reminder will grok right know

14:10:31 <oedipus> TOPIC: XHTML Basic 1.1 transition to PR: status

7. XHTML Basic 1.1 transition to PR: status

14:10:38 <oedipus> RM: when will make transition - any idea?

Roland Merrick: when will make transition - any idea?

14:10:57 <oedipus> SP: searches for messages

Steven Pemberton: searches for messages

14:11:34 <oedipus> RM: just a pulse check

Roland Merrick: just a pulse check

14:11:40 <oedipus> TOPIC: XHTML 1.1 SE status

8. XHTML 1.1 SE status

14:11:51 <oedipus> RM: proposed 1.2, have to get 1.1 SE out door

Roland Merrick: proposed 1.2, have to get 1.1 SE out door

14:12:25 <oedipus> TH: question: XHTML Basic 1.1 changed - some debate on mailing list - ignoring that or address it?

Tina Holmboe: question: XHTML Basic 1.1 changed - some debate on mailing list - ignoring that or address it?

14:12:59 <oedipus> RM: complaint from mobile, why i asked yam about spec - mobile profile may define input mode not in Basic; XHTML Mobile Profile + Basic needed

Roland Merrick: complaint from mobile, why i asked yam about spec - mobile profile may define input mode not in Basic; XHTML Mobile Profile + Basic needed

14:13:10 <oedipus> SM: think TH talking about deprecating @style

Shane McCarron: think TH talking about deprecating @style

14:13:29 <oedipus> RM: 2 issues: start of thread addressed being able to enter data, then moves on to deprecation issue

Roland Merrick: 2 issues: start of thread addressed being able to enter data, then moves on to deprecation issue

14:13:40 <oedipus> TH: setting input fields in node debate?

Tina Holmboe: setting input fields in node debate?

14:13:43 <oedipus> RM: yes

Roland Merrick: yes

14:13:52 <oedipus> TH: do we need to address before move forward

Tina Holmboe: do we need to address before move forward

14:14:01 <oedipus> RM: problem with XHTML Mobile rather than Basic

Roland Merrick: problem with XHTML Mobile rather than Basic

14:14:06 <Steven> Voting on Basic 1.1 is open until July 15th

Steven Pemberton: Voting on Basic 1.1 is open until July 15th

14:14:06 <oedipus> SM: disagree

Shane McCarron: disagree

14:14:29 <oedipus> RM: one in past to set nodes - never in XHTML Basic 1.0 - through XHTML Mobile Profile addition

Roland Merrick: one in past to set nodes - never in XHTML Basic 1.0 - through XHTML Mobile Profile addition

14:14:39 <oedipus> SM: and we added input mode to address shortcoming in Basic

Shane McCarron: and we added input mode to address shortcoming in Basic

14:14:55 <oedipus> RM: have to ensure that we have covered all of the input modes in Mobile

Roland Merrick: have to ensure that we have covered all of the input modes in Mobile

14:15:05 <oedipus> SM: didn't consider list extensible

Shane McCarron: didn't consider list extensible

14:15:20 <oedipus> RM: perhaps we can take up Yam on his offer to answer questions on mobile

Roland Merrick: perhaps we can take up Yam on his offer to answer questions on mobile

14:15:46 <oedipus> SM: think should ignore - no LC or other comments nor follow up

Shane McCarron: think should ignore - no LC or other comments nor follow up

14:16:02 <oedipus> RM: 2 statements: 1) input mode; 2) no @style

Roland Merrick: 2 statements: 1) input mode; 2) no @style

14:16:47 <oedipus> RM: need to understand answers to input mode - is answer/feature we want in Mobile profile

Roland Merrick: need to understand answers to input mode - is answer/feature we want in Mobile profile

14:17:00 <oedipus> SP: WAP background and mindset

Steven Pemberton: WAP background and mindset

14:17:33 <oedipus> RM: @style in WAP different, but don't know what OMA now says about Mobile profile - did they support new input modes not found in Basic?

Roland Merrick: @style in WAP different, but don't know what OMA now says about Mobile profile - did they support new input modes not found in Basic?

14:17:44 <oedipus> RM: need to address - could be a future flash point

Roland Merrick: need to address - could be a future flash point

14:17:55 <oedipus> RM: used WAP features in mobile work - very powerful

Roland Merrick: used WAP features in mobile work - very powerful

14:18:07 <oedipus> SM: next steps?

Shane McCarron: next steps?

14:19:07 <oedipus> RM: i will write Yam and ask him what has happened in this area with new Mobile profile; question comes from someone dealing with XHTML Mobile Profile 1.2 or 1.3; not sure where question lies

Roland Merrick: i will write Yam and ask him what has happened in this area with new Mobile profile; question comes from someone dealing with XHTML Mobile Profile 1.2 or 1.3; not sure where question lies

14:19:39 <oedipus> RM: been working in Mobile space  for some time - question is XHTML Basic 1.1 to corresponding mobile profile is what need to ascertain

Roland Merrick: been working in Mobile space for some time - question is XHTML Basic 1.1 to corresponding mobile profile is what need to ascertain

14:20:18 <oedipus> RM: also concerned about @style deprecation - interesting discussion - touched on it during F2F; no binding conclusion, but support for nested STYLE

Roland Merrick: also concerned about @style deprecation - interesting discussion - touched on it during F2F; no binding conclusion, but support for nested STYLE

14:20:42 <oedipus> SP: use of @style for putting restrictions on input is bending spec to breaking point from W3C POV

Steven Pemberton: use of @style for putting restrictions on input is bending spec to breaking point from W3C POV

14:21:06 <oedipus> RM: don't think restricted himself to saying @style useful only for that purpose

Roland Merrick: don't think restricted himself to saying @style useful only for that purpose

14:21:12 <oedipus> SP: but is a misuse of @style

Steven Pemberton: but is a misuse of @style

14:21:42 <oedipus> RM: we can think of no compelling use of @style, but if look at his use cases, might understand issue better

Roland Merrick: we can think of no compelling use of @style, but if look at his use cases, might understand issue better

14:21:54 <oedipus> RM: no answer because we followed up in discussions on XHTML2

Roland Merrick: no answer because we followed up in discussions on XHTML2

14:22:14 <oedipus> TH: use cases advanced so far is complaint about quality of managers, not spec

Tina Holmboe: use cases advanced so far is complaint about quality of managers, not spec

14:22:30 <oedipus> RM: component for mashup without getting into style in HEAD

Roland Merrick: component for mashup without getting into style in HEAD

14:22:50 <oedipus> RM: @style been solution to that; adding to HEAD very difficult; nested STYLE better

Roland Merrick: @style been solution to that; adding to HEAD very difficult; nested STYLE better

14:23:35 <oedipus> TH: taking 1 piece from point a and one from point b and putting together - where collisions happen; cascade of CSS - local style may collide with global style; assembling pieces should be done with content, not style

Tina Holmboe: taking 1 piece from point a and one from point b and putting together - where collisions happen; cascade of CSS - local style may collide with global style; assembling pieces should be done with content, not style

14:23:59 <oedipus> RM: still need to talk @style versus nestable STYLE outside of HEAD

Roland Merrick: still need to talk @style versus nestable STYLE outside of HEAD

14:24:16 <oedipus> TH: "real world" query - can't satisfy that

Tina Holmboe: "real world" query - can't satisfy that

14:24:24 <oedipus> RM: no resolution because still under discussion

Roland Merrick: no resolution because still under discussion

14:24:39 <oedipus> TH: might take his comments and simply tell discussion on table

Tina Holmboe: might take his comments and simply tell discussion on table

14:24:44 <oedipus> SP: say that in spec

Steven Pemberton: say that in spec

14:24:58 <Steven> We already say it in the spec

Steven Pemberton: We already say it in the spec

14:25:12 <oedipus> RM: haven't published latest version of XHTML2 - when have schedule for new draft and then query

Roland Merrick: haven't published latest version of XHTML2 - when have schedule for new draft and then query

14:25:21 <oedipus> RM: for use cases for solutions

Roland Merrick: for use cases for solutions

14:25:38 <oedipus> SM: already replied to say "topic on table" he replied he was happy, so think we are done with this

Shane McCarron: already replied to say "topic on table" he replied he was happy, so think we are done with this

14:25:46 <oedipus> RM: question of INPUT mode still open

Roland Merrick: question of INPUT mode still open

14:26:04 <oedipus> RM: will look into input mode and talk with Yam about it

Roland Merrick: will look into input mode and talk with Yam about it

14:26:07 <Steven> Question of style attribute I think

Steven Pemberton: Question of style attribute I think

14:26:27 <oedipus> SP: voting until 15 july 2008 - be sure to encourage people to vote

Steven Pemberton: voting until 15 july 2008 - be sure to encourage people to vote

14:26:59 <oedipus> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jun/0058.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2008Jun/0058.html

14:27:10 <oedipus> SP: be here next week, then away for 3 weeks

Steven Pemberton: be here next week, then away for 3 weeks

14:27:29 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-xhtml-minutes.html

http://www.w3.org/2008/06/19-xhtml-minutes.html

14:27:51 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to write strawman on XHTML2/HTML5 wording

ACTION: Steven to write strawman on XHTML2/HTML5 wording

14:28:24 <oedipus> RM: need to think through all ramifications of resolution on @style logged in:

Roland Merrick: need to think through all ramifications of resolution on @style logged in:

14:28:50 <oedipus> RM: where is Role

Roland Merrick: where is Role

14:29:04 <oedipus> GJR: did AlG ever reply to ShaneM's post to pf on Role

Gregory Rosmaita: did AlG ever reply to ShaneM's post to pf on Role

14:29:22 <oedipus> SM: updated after last minute

Shane McCarron: updated after last teleconference in june

14:29:35 <oedipus> s/last minute/last teleconference in june
14:29:49 <oedipus> SM: transition document in w3.org space

Shane McCarron: transition document in w3.org space

14:29:54 <oedipus> RM: additional comments?

Roland Merrick: additional comments?

14:29:57 <oedipus> SM: checked and changed

Shane McCarron: checked and changed

14:30:09 <oedipus> RM: are we truly there - all comments that we have agreed solutions to?

Roland Merrick: are we truly there - all comments that we have agreed solutions to?

14:30:24 <oedipus> SM: believe all submitters replied to and made all changes agreed to at f2f

Shane McCarron: believe all submitters replied to and made all changes agreed to at f2f

14:31:29 <oedipus> RM: take look at latest draft

Roland Merrick: take look at latest draft

14:31:54 <oedipus> SM: Tina please check "badness" of bad examples

Shane McCarron: Tina please check "badness" of bad examples

14:31:57 <oedipus> TH: i will

Tina Holmboe: i will

14:32:11 <Steven> ACTION: Roland to remind IBM AC rep to vote for http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/xhtmlbasic2008/

ACTION: Roland to remind IBM AC rep to vote for http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/xhtmlbasic2008/

14:32:13 <oedipus> SM: typed URI into log of meeting as updated in realtime

Shane McCarron: typed URI into log of meeting as updated in realtime

14:32:36 <oedipus> SM: dependent upon CURIEs anyway

Shane McCarron: dependent upon CURIEs anyway

14:33:05 <oedipus> SM: question to PF is ARIA talks about role, but not cited as an extension of role

Shane McCarron: question to PF is ARIA talks about role, but not cited as an extension of role

14:33:15 <oedipus> RM: overlap check between ARIA and Role

Roland Merrick: overlap check between ARIA and Role

14:33:32 <oedipus> SM: yes - ripped out roles (in response to document) - normative in #vocab

Shane McCarron: yes - ripped out roles (in response to document) - normative in #vocab

14:33:50 <oedipus> SM: ARIA people in charge of it, have to trust when say no conflict

Shane McCarron: ARIA people in charge of it, have to trust when say no conflict

14:34:00 <oedipus> GJR: believes all in harmony and no overlap

Gregory Rosmaita: believes roles not repetitive and no overlap

14:34:18 <oedipus> s/all in harmony/roles not repetitive
14:34:26 <oedipus> SP: actions coming out of discussion?

Steven Pemberton: actions coming out of discussion?

14:34:49 <oedipus> RM: Role is ready for us to review and resolve to move to CR

Roland Merrick: Role is ready for us to review and resolve to move to CR

14:34:57 <oedipus> SP: vote on CR next week?

Steven Pemberton: vote on CR next week?

14:34:58 <oedipus> RM: yes

Roland Merrick: yes

14:35:21 <oedipus> TOPIC: Access Module: status

9. Access Module: status

14:35:24 <oedipus> RM: comments?

Roland Merrick: comments?

14:35:34 <oedipus> GJR: doug replied to request of SVG as individual

Gregory Rosmaita: doug replied to request of SVG as individual

14:36:09 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008AprJun/0052.html

Steven Pemberton: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2008AprJun/0052.html

14:37:39 <oedipus> GJR: summarizes Acess discussion at PF face2face

Gregory Rosmaita: summarizes Acess discussion at PF face2face

14:37:47 <oedipus> RM: asked XForms?

Roland Merrick: asked XForms?

14:37:52 <oedipus> SP: go official reply

Steven Pemberton: go official reply

14:38:39 <Steven> d/go/no/

Steven Pemberton: d/go/no/

14:38:40 <Steven> yet

Steven Pemberton: yet

14:39:26 <oedipus> PF face2face discussion of Access and HTML5/extensibility:

PF face2face discussion of Access and HTML5/extensibility:

14:39:27 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-pf-minutes.html#item07

http://www.w3.org/2008/06/26-pf-minutes.html#item07

14:40:12 <oedipus> GJR notes that PF has formally asked for support for Access module in HTML5 or at least ability to use through extensibility

GJR notes that PF has formally asked for support for Access module in HTML5 or at least ability to use through extensibility

14:40:17 <oedipus> TOPIC: I18n Issues

10. I18n Issues

14:40:33 <oedipus> SM: ok to leave Ruby references in XHTML 1.1 as normative def?

Shane McCarron: ok to leave Ruby references in XHTML 1.1 as normative def?

14:40:39 <oedipus> SP: ok with it

Steven Pemberton: ok with it

14:40:58 <oedipus> SM: good with i18n

Shane McCarron: good with i18n

14:41:20 <oedipus> SM: considering recommending for compatibility HTML Mime

Shane McCarron: considering recommending for compatibility HTML Mime

14:41:48 <oedipus> SM: with regard to i18n - recommend that documents be in UTF-8 or UTF-16 if want them to be portable - take pulse on that?

Shane McCarron: with regard to i18n - recommend that documents be in UTF-8 or UTF-16 if want them to be portable - take pulse on that?

14:41:54 <oedipus> SP: think will be delighted

Steven Pemberton: think will be delighted

14:42:18 <oedipus> TOPIC: XML Event timing issue

11. XML Event timing issue

14:42:38 <oedipus> RM: received feedback - might be worth asking if comments received by Forms WG

Roland Merrick: received feedback - might be worth asking if comments received by Forms WG

14:42:43 <oedipus> SP: by timing you mean?

Steven Pemberton: by timing you mean?

14:42:48 <oedipus> RM: when bindings get done

Roland Merrick: when bindings get done

14:42:56 <oedipus> SP: did ask last week with some discussion

Steven Pemberton: did ask last week with some discussion

14:43:02 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Jun/0067.html

Steven Pemberton: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2008Jun/0067.html

14:43:27 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-forms-minutes.html#item03

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-forms-minutes.html#item06

14:43:48 <Steven> http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-forms-minutes.html#item06

Steven Pemberton: http://www.w3.org/2008/06/25-forms-minutes.html#item06

14:44:00 <Steven> s/item03/item06/
14:44:21 <oedipus> SP: nick has action item to respond to XHTML2 WG on events

Steven Pemberton: nick has action item to respond to XHTML2 WG on events

14:44:35 <oedipus> SP: john boyer has action item to comment on Access

Steven Pemberton: john boyer has action item to comment on Access

14:45:02 <oedipus> GJR: got Access inserted into UAAG 2.0 under direct user control (previously only accesskey)

Gregory Rosmaita: got Access inserted into UAAG 2.0 under direct user control (previously only accesskey)

14:45:36 <oedipus> SP: Shane and i have been testing XHTML11+RDFa Modularized Schema on w3c schema validator - some issues to be ironed out but making progress

Steven Pemberton: Shane and i have been testing XHTML11+RDFa Modularized Schema on w3c schema validator - some issues to be ironed out but making progress

14:45:37 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM

14:45:40 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven

14:45:41 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita

14:45:42 <Zakim> -Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: -Roland

14:45:43 <Zakim> -Tina

Zakim IRC Bot: -Tina

14:45:44 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()9:45AM has ended

14:45:45 <Zakim> Attendees were Roland, ShaneM, Tina, Steven, yamx, Gregory_Rosmaita

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Roland, ShaneM, Tina, Steven, yamx, Gregory_Rosmaita

14:45:48 <oedipus> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes

14:45:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-xhtml-minutes.html oedipus

14:46:23 <Steven> thanks Gregory!

Steven Pemberton: thanks Gregory!

14:51:56 <oedipus> rrsagent, please part

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

rrsagent, please part

14:51:56 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-xhtml-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-xhtml-actions.rdf :

14:51:56 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Steven to write strawman on XHTML2/HTML5 wording [1]

ACTION: Steven to write strawman on XHTML2/HTML5 wording [1]

14:51:56 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-xhtml-irc#T14-27-51

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-xhtml-irc#T14-27-51

14:51:56 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Roland to remind IBM AC rep to vote for http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/xhtmlbasic2008/ [2]

ACTION: Roland to remind IBM AC rep to vote for http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/xhtmlbasic2008/ [2]

14:51:56 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-xhtml-irc#T14-32-11

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/02-xhtml-irc#T14-32-11



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