edit

Weekly XHTML2 WG Teleconference

Minutes of 21 November 2007

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0029
Seen
Mark Birbeck, Richard Schwerdtfeger, Roland Merrick, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton, Tina Holmboe, Toshihiko Yamakami, Unknown Gregory_Rosmaita, Unknown oedipus
Regrets
Toshihiko Yamakami, Tina Holmboe
Chair
Roland Merrick
Scribe
Steven Pemberton
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. Call will be at 14:00 UTC forthwith link
  2. Reply to TAG that we don't use CURIEs in URI context in the role module link
Topics

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14:46:50 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-xhtml-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-xhtml-irc

14:46:57 <Steven> rrsagent, make log public

Steven Pemberton: rrsagent, make log public

14:47:03 <Steven> zakim, this will be xhtml

Steven Pemberton: zakim, this will be xhtml

14:47:03 <Zakim> ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()10:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; I see IA_XHTML2()10:00AM scheduled to start in 13 minutes

14:47:16 <Steven> Meeting: Weekly XHTML2 WG Teleconference
14:49:03 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0029
14:49:10 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0029

Steven Pemberton: Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0029

14:49:31 <Steven> Chair: Roland
14:49:37 <Steven> Scribe: Steven

(Scribe set to Steven Pemberton)

14:50:02 <Steven> -> Previous http://www.w3.org/2007/11/14-xhtml-minutes

-> Previous http://www.w3.org/2007/11/14-xhtml-minutes

14:50:19 <Steven> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/11/14-xhtml-minutes Previous

-> http://www.w3.org/2007/11/14-xhtml-minutes Previous

14:50:29 <oedipus> http://www.w3.org/2007/11/14-xhtml-minutes

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown oedipus: http://www.w3.org/2007/11/14-xhtml-minutes

14:50:56 <Steven> Yes, but the order of the -> command is what I can't remember

Yes, but the order of the -> command is what I can't remember

14:51:12 <Steven> Regrets: Yam, Tina
14:51:19 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes

14:51:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

14:51:58 <Steven> Neither seem to have worked ;-)

Neither seem to have worked ;-)

14:52:03 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes

14:52:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

14:59:23 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has now started

(No events recorded for 7 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has now started

14:59:30 <Zakim> +Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: +Roland

14:59:42 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

zakim, dial steven-617

14:59:42 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made

14:59:43 <Zakim> -Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: -Roland

14:59:44 <Zakim> +Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: +Roland

14:59:45 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

14:59:55 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM

15:01:10 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmiata

Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmiata

15:01:27 <oedipus> zakim, Gregory_Rosmiata is Gregory_Rosmaita

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown oedipus: zakim, Gregory_Rosmiata is Gregory_Rosmaita

15:01:27 <Zakim> +Gregory_Rosmaita; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Gregory_Rosmaita; got it

15:02:49 <Zakim> +??P2

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P2

15:03:23 <Steven> zakim, ??p2 is Rich

zakim, ??p2 is Rich

15:03:23 <Zakim> +Rich; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Rich; got it

15:05:19 <Steven> Regrets+Alessio

Regrets+Alessio

15:07:44 <Steven> Topic: Reviews

1. Reviews

15:08:00 <Steven> Roland: ITS Best Practices

Roland Merrick: ITS Best Practices

15:08:01 <Roland> ITS Best practices [Note new version]

Roland Merrick: ITS Best practices [Note new version]

15:08:30 <Steven> Shane: I reviewed it, and my general feeling is "it's fine" and thanks to them for doing what we asked (making a module)

Shane McCarron: I reviewed it, and my general feeling is "it's fine" and thanks to them for doing what we asked (making a module)

15:09:12 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?

Mark Birbeck: zakim, code?

15:09:12 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

15:09:16 <Steven> Steven: You had some remarks about ruby?

Steven Pemberton: You had some remarks about ruby?

15:09:41 <Zakim> +markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck

15:09:45 <Steven> Shane: The ruby spec doesn't mention a namespace

Shane McCarron: The ruby spec doesn't mention a namespace

15:10:02 <Steven> ... they see, to have added it to their namespace as well (as ours)

... they see, to have added it to their namespace as well (as ours)

15:10:46 <Steven> Steven: So there are two rubys

Steven Pemberton: So there are two rubys

15:10:57 <Steven> Shane: But that is in their spec, not this document

Shane McCarron: But that is in their spec, not this document

15:11:20 <Steven> Steven: So you don't think there are any comments to make?

Steven Pemberton: So you don't think there are any comments to make?

15:11:23 <Steven> Shane: No

Shane McCarron: No

15:11:55 <Steven> Roland: CSS Mobile

Roland Merrick: CSS Mobile

15:12:07 <Steven> ... who was reviewer?

... who was reviewer?

15:12:11 <Steven> Steven: Yam

Steven Pemberton: Yam

15:12:56 <Steven> ... I have a vague feeling that I shoould have been given an action last week to forward Yam's review

... I have a vague feeling that I shoould have been given an action last week to forward Yam's review

15:12:59 <Steven> ... I will

... I will

15:13:07 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to forward Yam's CSS review

ACTION: Steven to forward Yam's CSS review

15:13:18 <Steven> Topic: Call times

2. Call times

15:13:36 <Roland> This questionnaire is open from 2007-11-14 to 2007-11-21.

Roland Merrick: This questionnaire is open from 2007-11-14 to 2007-11-21.

15:13:42 <Steven> Roland: the deadline is today

Roland Merrick: the deadline is today

15:13:58 <Steven> Steven: So we can make a decision now

Steven Pemberton: So we can make a decision now

15:14:27 <Steven> ... looking at the results, the only time that has no "No" is Wednesday 14:00UTC

... looking at the results, the only time that has no "No" is Wednesday 14:00UTC

15:14:36 <Steven> Roland: Will we review this?

Roland Merrick: Will we review this?

15:15:41 <Steven> ... in the spring?

... in the spring?

15:16:15 <Steven> Steven: No need, becauser it only makes it easier for Japanese (it is puinned to Boston time, so it becomes 13:00UTC

Steven Pemberton: No need, because it only makes it easier for Japanese (it is pinned to Boston time, so it becomes 13:00UTC

15:16:24 <Steven> s/ser/se/
15:16:33 <Steven> s/puin/pin/
15:16:50 <Steven> Roland: Propose moving call time one hour earlier.

Roland Merrick: Propose moving call time one hour earlier.

15:16:58 <Steven> Roland: Objections?

Roland Merrick: Objections?

15:17:04 <Rich> no objection

Richard Schwerdtfeger: no objection

15:17:15 <oedipus> +1 from GJR

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown oedipus: +1 from GJR

15:17:31 <Steven> RESOLVED: Call will be at 14:00 UTC forthwith

RESOLVED: Call will be at 14:00 UTC forthwith

15:17:42 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to change teleconference slot

ACTION: Steven to change teleconference slot

15:18:24 <Steven> Topic: Marking up assertions

3. Marking up assertions

15:18:34 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0024.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0024.html

15:18:52 <Steven> Roland: We need to do something about the presentation of assertions in current documents

Roland Merrick: We need to do something about the presentation of assertions in current documents

15:20:19 <Steven> Steven: I think we should make them prettier and document them at the beginning of each document

Steven Pemberton: I think we should make them prettier and document them at the beginning of each document

15:22:19 <Steven> Gregory: They are useful. I am currently investigating the best way to use CSS in these cases (to support assistive software). I will report later.

Scribe problem: the name 'Gregory' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Gregory: They are useful. I am currently investigating the best way to use CSS in these cases (to support assistive software). I will report later.

15:24:25 <Steven> Gregory: Many screen readers can't cope with things that are only different by color

Scribe problem: the name 'Gregory' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Gregory: Many screen readers can't cope with things that are only different by color

15:24:41 <Steven> Steven: And we don't use del and ins?

Steven Pemberton: And we don't use del and ins?

15:24:50 <Steven> Shane: No, because of validation problems

Shane McCarron: No, because of validation problems

15:25:37 <Rich> q+

Richard Schwerdtfeger: q+

15:25:52 <Steven> Roland: This is a semantics issue, not just styling

Roland Merrick: This is a semantics issue, not just styling

15:26:06 <Steven> ackk r

ackk r

15:26:09 <Steven> ack r

ack r

15:26:19 <Steven> Rich: I agree strongly

Richard Schwerdtfeger: I agree strongly

15:26:56 <Steven> Gregory: Separating style and content doesn't guarantee accessibility

Scribe problem: the name 'Gregory' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Gregory: Separating style and content doesn't guarantee accessibility

15:27:42 <Roland> http://new.eic-community.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=441

Roland Merrick: http://new.eic-community.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=441

15:28:03 <Steven> Roland: There are other groups doing similar things

Roland Merrick: There are other groups doing similar things

15:28:57 <Steven> ... that even include stronger constraints than schema, that can be automatically extracted

... that even include stronger constraints than schema, that can be automatically extracted

15:29:10 <Steven> Shane: How about role?

Shane McCarron: How about role?

15:29:15 <Steven> Steven: Or RDFa?

Steven Pemberton: Or RDFa?

15:29:22 <Steven> Roland: Good idea

Roland Merrick: Good idea

15:29:58 <Steven> Shane: Is there a subject and object?

Shane McCarron: Is there a subject and object?

15:30:18 <Steven> Roland: I think it can be done

Roland Merrick: I think it can be done

15:30:34 <Steven> Rich: In any case we need to map it to a framework for accessible software

Richard Schwerdtfeger: In any case we need to map it to a framework for accessible software

15:31:09 <ShaneM>  @role could easily be used to annotate the assertions instead of @class, which is what I am doing today.

Shane McCarron: @role could easily be used to annotate the assertions instead of @class, which is what I am doing today.

15:31:14 <Steven> Gregory: Let's continue on list

Scribe problem: the name 'Gregory' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Gregory: Let's continue on list

15:31:24 <Steven> Topic: Future FtFs

4. Future FtFs

15:33:07 <Steven> Roland: So we just need a host for the second FtF. THe rest is clear

Roland Merrick: So we just need a host for the second FtF. THe rest is clear

15:33:16 <Steven> 1. 18-20 Feb Venice Italy (Host Alessio)

1. 18-20 Feb Venice Italy (Host Alessio)

15:33:16 <Steven> 2. 16-18 June NE USA (such as NY or Boston, looking for a host)

2. 16-18 June NE USA (such as NY or Boston, looking for a host)

15:33:16 <Steven> 3. xx-yy October, France (TPAC 2008)

3. xx-yy October, France (TPAC 2008)

15:33:29 <Steven> Topic: Testing XHTML Basic 1.1

5. Testing XHTML Basic 1.1

15:33:40 <Steven> Roland: No Yam, so we will postpone

Roland Merrick: No Yam, so we will postpone

15:33:54 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to tell Yam about test reports

ACTION: Steven to tell Yam about test reports

15:34:14 <Steven> Topic: Title issue (RDFa vs role)

6. Title issue (RDFa vs role)

15:34:14 <Steven> http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/xhtml2-issues/RoleAttrib?id=8023

http://htmlwg.mn.aptest.com/cgi-bin/xhtml2-issues/RoleAttrib?id=8023

15:34:27 <Steven> Gregoty: I took it to PF

Scribe problem: the name 'Gregory' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Gregory: I took it to PF

15:34:32 <Steven> s/ty/ry/
15:34:53 <Steven> Gregory: and what came back was that PF is very interested in the DC usage

Scribe problem: the name 'Gregory' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Gregory: and what came back was that PF is very interested in the DC usage

15:35:17 <Steven> ... and RDFa syntax uses colonised attribute values

... and RDFa syntax uses colonised attribute values

15:35:24 <Steven> ... which is a risk wrt HTML56

... which is a risk wrt HTML5

15:35:28 <Steven> s/56/5/
15:35:50 <Steven> Shane: I appreciate the basic issue

Shane McCarron: I appreciate the basic issue

15:36:28 <Steven> ... but what is the problem?

... but what is the problem?

15:36:41 <Steven> Steven: Thery asked for a value of @role for title

Steven Pemberton: Thery asked for a value of @role for title

15:36:51 <Steven> ... and we repled that RDFa supports that usage

... and we replied that RDFa supports that usage

15:36:58 <Steven> s/repled/replied/
15:37:14 <Steven> Steven: But role has colonised values too!

Steven Pemberton: But role has colonised values too!

15:37:22 <oedipus> [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2007OctDec/0194.html]

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown oedipus: [http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2007OctDec/0194.html]

15:39:38 <Steven> Steven: And I thought that the problem with HTML5 was colonised *attributes* not the values.

Steven Pemberton: And I thought that the problem with HTML5 was colonised *attributes* not the values.

15:40:27 <Steven> Rich: title isn't a section of a document surely?

Richard Schwerdtfeger: title isn't a section of a document surely?

15:40:42 <Steven> Steven: Quite, it is a property of some content

Steven Pemberton: Quite, it is a property of some content

15:41:25 <Steven> ... which is why property="dc:title" is better than role="title"

... which is why property="dc:title" is better than role="title"

15:42:02 <oedipus> RDFa Sufficient Post: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2007OctDec/0191.html

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown oedipus: RDFa Sufficient Post: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2007OctDec/0191.html

15:42:08 <Steven> \Shane: I don't think property="dc:title" covers it

\Shane: I don't think property="dc:title" covers it

15:42:26 <Steven> Steven: Well, if you use an @about if it is not the title of the document, but a section

Steven Pemberton: Well, if you use an @about if it is not the title of the document, but a section

15:42:29 <Steven> Shane: Oh, ok

Shane McCarron: Oh, ok

15:42:59 <Steven> Gregory: I have asked them (PF) to explain more, and we'll see

Scribe problem: the name 'Gregory' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Gregory: I have asked them (PF) to explain more, and we'll see

15:43:23 <Steven> Rich: Let's hold off until PF meets (later today)

Richard Schwerdtfeger: Let's hold off until PF meets (later today)

15:43:40 <Steven> Roland: So this is in progress, and we don't have to do anything more yet

Roland Merrick: So this is in progress, and we don't have to do anything more yet

15:44:01 <Steven> Topic: TAG role comment (continued from last week)

7. TAG role comment (continued from last week)

15:44:01 <Steven> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0013

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xhtml2/2007Nov/0013

15:44:23 <oedipus> GJR notes that "title" and RDFa is on the agenda for the 21 november 2007 PF telecon

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown oedipus: GJR notes that "title" and RDFa is on the agenda for the 21 november 2007 PF telecon

15:45:33 <Steven> Shane: They replied to my informal reply http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007OctDec/0025.html

Shane McCarron: They replied to my informal reply http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-html-editor/2007OctDec/0025.html

15:46:00 <Steven> ... the comment is not actually on the role spec, so I don't think we need to treat it as a LC comment

... the comment is not actually on the role spec, so I don't think we need to treat it as a LC comment

15:46:25 <Steven> ... it is about CURIES in the context where a URI ref might be used

... it is about CURIES in the context where a URI ref might be used

15:46:33 <oedipus> TAG tracker issue cited in TAG comments: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/56

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown oedipus: TAG tracker issue cited in TAG comments: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/56

15:47:00 <Steven> Shane: my epiphany yesterday is that the URI aspect of CURIEs is not interesting to me.  I dont care that I can express a compact URI (e.g. in @resource or @about)

Shane McCarron: my epiphany yesterday is that the URI aspect of CURIEs is not interesting to me. I dont care that I can express a compact URI (e.g. in @resource or @about)

15:47:03 <oedipus> larger TAG issue: "Do the expected benefits of CURIEs outweigh the potential costs in introducing a third syntax for identifiers into the languages of the Web?"

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown oedipus: larger TAG issue: "Do the expected benefits of CURIEs outweigh the potential costs in introducing a third syntax for identifiers into the languages of the Web?"

15:47:23 <Steven> Mark: Do we need to make a formal response?

Mark Birbeck: Do we need to make a formal response?

15:47:36 <Steven> Shane: Yes, it is framed as a LC comment

Shane McCarron: Yes, it is framed as a LC comment

15:47:46 <Steven> Mark: But there is not a lot of substance to their comment

Mark Birbeck: But there is not a lot of substance to their comment

15:48:26 <oedipus> TAG issue is named: "Abbreviating URIs in Web Languages"

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'oedipus' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown oedipus: TAG issue is named: "Abbreviating URIs in Web Languages"

15:48:39 <Steven> Shane: in the role document CURIEs are not used in URI contexts, so their comment doesn't count

Shane McCarron: in the role document CURIEs are not used in URI contexts, so their comment doesn't count

15:50:56 <Steven> Steven: [argument about how IRIs do this already]

Steven Pemberton: [argument about how IRIs do this already]

15:51:27 <Steven> Shane: A fine argument, but we don't need to use it

Shane McCarron: A fine argument, but we don't need to use it

15:51:43 <Steven> ... we don't use CURIEs in such positions anyway

... we don't use CURIEs in such positions anyway

15:52:45 <ShaneM>  they did request:  The TAG requests language to the following effect be included in the normative specification of CURIEs.

Shane McCarron: they did request: The TAG requests language to the following effect be included in the normative specification of CURIEs.

15:52:45 <ShaneM>

Shane McCarron:

15:52:45 <ShaneM>         "CURIEs, including safe_curies, MUST NOT be used in attribute or element

Shane McCarron: "CURIEs, including safe_curies, MUST NOT be used in attribute or element

15:52:45 <ShaneM>         content where URI content is specified in the relevant language

Shane McCarron: content where URI content is specified in the relevant language

15:52:45 <ShaneM>         specification."

Shane McCarron: specification."

15:52:56 <Steven> Mark: I don't think we need to consider their argument at all, since it is just not clear enough

Mark Birbeck: I don't think we need to consider their argument at all, since it is just not clear enough

15:53:22 <Steven> Shane: I think we should react to that for the role spec

Shane McCarron: I think we should react to that for the role spec

15:53:35 <Steven> ... but put off the wider issue until the CURIE spec

... but put off the wider issue until the CURIE spec

15:55:43 <Steven> Steven: Can't we just say "Thanks, this is what we do in role already"

Steven Pemberton: Can't we just say "Thanks, this is what we do in role already"

15:55:59 <Steven> Shane: We don't want to piss of the TAG

Shane McCarron: We don't want to piss off the TAG

15:56:28 <Steven> s/of/off/
15:57:14 <Steven> Roland: So how do we reply?

Roland Merrick: So how do we reply?

15:59:57 <Steven> RESOLUTION: Reply to TAG that we don't use CURIEs in URI context in the role module

RESOLVED: Reply to TAG that we don't use CURIEs in URI context in the role module

16:00:20 <Steven> ACTION: Reply to TAG about CURIEs in role

ACTION: Reply to TAG about CURIEs in role

16:00:59 <Steven> Roland: They can respond on CURIEs when that spec is published

Roland Merrick: They can respond on CURIEs when that spec is published

16:01:13 <ShaneM>  publication of the updated CURIE spec is imminent

Shane McCarron: publication of the updated CURIE spec is imminent

16:01:18 <Steven> [ADJOURNED]

[ADJOURNED]

16:01:33 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM

16:01:35 <Zakim> -markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck

16:01:37 <Zakim> -Gregory_Rosmaita

Scribe problem: the name 'Gregory_Rosmaita' does not match any of the 20 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Alessio Cartocci Alexander Graf Christina Bottomley Elias Torres John Kugelman Luca Mascaro Mark Birbeck Masataka Yakura Michael Rawling Richard Schwerdtfeger Roland Merrick Sebastian Schnitzenbaumer Shane McCarron Steven Pemberton Susan Borgrink Tina Holmboe Toshihiko Yamakami Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Gregory_Rosmaita

16:01:39 <Zakim> -Roland

Zakim IRC Bot: -Roland

16:01:44 <Steven> zakim, who is here?

zakim, who is here?

16:01:47 <Zakim> -Rich

Zakim IRC Bot: -Rich

16:02:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Steven

16:02:17 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven

16:02:19 <Zakim> IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: IA_XHTML2()10:00AM has ended

16:02:27 <Zakim> Attendees were Roland, Steven, ShaneM, Gregory_Rosmaita, Rich, markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Roland, Steven, ShaneM, Gregory_Rosmaita, Rich, markbirbeck

16:02:33 <Zakim> On IRC I see markbirbeck, Rich, ShaneM, Nick, Roland, oedipus, RRSAgent, Zakim, Steven, myakura, Lachy, krijnh

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see markbirbeck, Rich, ShaneM, Nick, Roland, oedipus, RRSAgent, Zakim, Steven, myakura, Lachy, krijnh

16:03:11 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes

rrsagent, make minutes

16:03:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-xhtml-minutes.html Steven

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/11/21-xhtml-minutes.html Steven



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