edit

XHTML 2 Project Review, part 2

Minutes of 19 January 2006

Seen
Unknown Alan, Unknown Bert, Unknown Cedric, Unknown Chris, Unknown DanC_lap, Unknown Danc, Unknown Dave, Unknown Dean, Unknown Dom, Unknown EricM, Unknown Felix, Unknown Hakon, Unknown Ht, Unknown IanJ, Unknown Ishida, Unknown Ivan, Unknown Jose, Unknown Judy, Unknown Kazuyuki, Unknown Klaus, Unknown MIT531, Unknown MSM, Unknown Maxf, Unknown Mcf, Unknown Michael, Unknown Mimasa, Unknown Olivier, Unknown Philipp, Unknown RalphS, Unknown Shadi, Unknown Simon, Unknown Steven, Unknown SusanL, Unknown Ted, Unknown TimBL, Unknown Vivien, Unknown Yves, Unknown cedric, Unknown dino, Unknown dom, Unknown fsasaki, Unknown ht, Unknown ivan, Unknown jose, Unknown marie, Unknown maxf, Unknown ph, Unknown r12a, Unknown s-mon, Unknown shadi, Unknown steve, Unknown timbl_, Unknown vivien
Scribe
Unknown Dean, Unknown dino
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics

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13:01:54 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/01/19-xhtml-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2006/01/19-xhtml-irc

13:01:55 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Steven: zakim, dial steven-617

13:01:56 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made

13:01:58 <Zakim> +Dean

Zakim IRC Bot: +Dean

13:01:58 <dom> dom has changed the topic to: XHTML Project Review ad hoc channel

Scribe problem: the name 'dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown dom: dom has changed the topic to: XHTML Project Review ad hoc channel

13:02:07 <shadi> zakim, code?

Scribe problem: the name 'shadi' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'shadi' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown shadi: zakim, code?

13:02:07 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), shadi

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), shadi

13:02:20 <RalphS> zakim, who's on the call?

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: zakim, who's on the call?

13:02:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see MIT531, Dean

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see MIT531, Dean

13:02:21 <Zakim> MIT531 has Steve, Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: MIT531 has Steve, Ralph

13:02:22 <Steven> I haven't had this trouble with Zakim in *ages*

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Steven: I haven't had this trouble with Zakim in *ages*

13:02:27 <Zakim> +Shadi

Zakim IRC Bot: +Shadi

13:02:31 <Steven> zakim dial steven-617

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Steven: zakim dial steven-617

13:02:37 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Steven: zakim, dial steven-617

13:02:37 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made

13:02:37 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

13:02:45 <Zakim> -Shadi

Scribe problem: the name 'Shadi' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Shadi

13:02:46 <fsasaki> zakim, dial felix-home

Scribe problem: the name 'fsasaki' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'fsasaki' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown fsasaki: zakim, dial felix-home

13:02:46 <Zakim> ok, fsasaki; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, fsasaki; the call is being made

13:02:46 <Zakim> +Felix

Zakim IRC Bot: +Felix

13:02:48 <shadi> hum

Scribe problem: the name 'shadi' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'shadi' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown shadi: hum

13:02:52 <Zakim> +Olivier

Zakim IRC Bot: +Olivier

13:02:55 <fsasaki> zakim, mute felix

Scribe problem: the name 'fsasaki' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'fsasaki' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown fsasaki: zakim, mute felix

13:02:55 <Zakim> Felix should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Felix should now be muted

13:03:03 <Zakim> +Shadi

Zakim IRC Bot: +Shadi

13:03:14 <Zakim> +Yves

Zakim IRC Bot: +Yves

13:03:14 <SusanL> Zakim, please dial SusanL-BOS

Scribe problem: the name 'SusanL' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'SusanL' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown SusanL: Zakim, please dial SusanL-BOS

13:03:16 <Zakim> ok, SusanL; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, SusanL; the call is being made

13:03:17 <Zakim> +SusanL

Zakim IRC Bot: +SusanL

13:03:41 <Zakim> +Dom

Zakim IRC Bot: +Dom

13:03:44 <IanJ> zakim, what's the code?

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown IanJ: zakim, what's the code?

13:03:44 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), IanJ

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), IanJ

13:03:45 <dom> Zakim, drop dom

Scribe problem: the name 'dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown dom: Zakim, drop dom

13:03:45 <Zakim> Dom is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Dom is being disconnected

13:03:47 <Zakim> -Dom

Scribe problem: the name 'Dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Dom

13:03:55 <Zakim> +Dom

Zakim IRC Bot: +Dom

13:03:59 <Zakim> +Ian

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ian

13:04:04 <SusanL> Zakim, drop SusanL

Scribe problem: the name 'SusanL' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'SusanL' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown SusanL: Zakim, drop SusanL

13:04:05 <dom> Zakim, drop dom

Scribe problem: the name 'dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown dom: Zakim, drop dom

13:04:05 <Zakim> SusanL is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: SusanL is being disconnected

13:04:09 <Zakim> -SusanL

Scribe problem: the name 'SusanL' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -SusanL

13:04:11 <Zakim> Dom is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Dom is being disconnected

13:04:13 <Zakim> -Dom

Scribe problem: the name 'Dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Dom

13:04:21 <SusanL> Zakim, please dial SusanL-BOS

Scribe problem: the name 'SusanL' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'SusanL' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown SusanL: Zakim, please dial SusanL-BOS

13:04:23 <Zakim> +Dom

Zakim IRC Bot: +Dom

13:04:27 <Zakim> ok, SusanL; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, SusanL; the call is being made

13:04:28 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-home

Scribe problem: the name 'ivan' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'ivan' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ivan: zakim, dial ivan-home

13:04:31 <Zakim> +SusanL

Zakim IRC Bot: +SusanL

13:04:31 <dom> Zakim, drop dom

Scribe problem: the name 'dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown dom: Zakim, drop dom

13:04:35 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

13:04:37 <Zakim> +Bert

Zakim IRC Bot: +Bert

13:04:39 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

13:04:41 <Zakim> Dom is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Dom is being disconnected

13:04:43 <Zakim> -Dom

Scribe problem: the name 'Dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Dom

13:04:47 <Zakim> +Ted

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ted

13:05:25 <Klaus> zakim, call klaus-home

Scribe problem: the name 'Klaus' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Klaus' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Klaus: zakim, call klaus-home

13:05:25 <Zakim> ok, Klaus; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Klaus; the call is being made

13:05:27 <Zakim> +Klaus

Zakim IRC Bot: +Klaus

13:05:35 <Zakim> +Dom

Zakim IRC Bot: +Dom

13:05:39 <dom> Zakim, drop dom

Scribe problem: the name 'dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown dom: Zakim, drop dom

13:05:39 <Zakim> Dom is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Dom is being disconnected

13:05:41 <Zakim> -Dom

Scribe problem: the name 'Dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Dom

13:05:41 <Chris> zakim, dial chris-work

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Chris: zakim, dial chris-work

13:05:41 <Zakim> ok, Chris; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Chris; the call is being made

13:05:43 <Dave> zakim, code?

Scribe problem: the name 'Dave' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Dave' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Dave: zakim, code?

13:05:43 <Zakim> +Chris

Zakim IRC Bot: +Chris

13:05:44 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), Dave

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), Dave

13:05:48 <Kazuyuki> zakim, call Kazuyuki-Home

Scribe problem: the name 'Kazuyuki' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Kazuyuki' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Kazuyuki: zakim, call Kazuyuki-Home

13:05:48 <Zakim> ok, Kazuyuki; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Kazuyuki; the call is being made

13:05:49 <Zakim> +Kazuyuki

Zakim IRC Bot: +Kazuyuki

13:05:53 <Zakim> +Dom

Zakim IRC Bot: +Dom

13:05:58 <dom> Zakim, drop dom

Scribe problem: the name 'dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown dom: Zakim, drop dom

13:05:58 <Zakim> Dom is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Dom is being disconnected

13:05:59 <Zakim> -Dom

Scribe problem: the name 'Dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Dom

13:06:10 <Klaus> zakim, mute me

Scribe problem: the name 'Klaus' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Klaus' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Klaus: zakim, mute me

13:06:10 <Zakim> Klaus should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Klaus should now be muted

13:06:12 <RalphS> Chris: Hakon expected, Tantek declined

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Chris: Hakon expected, Tantek declined [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

13:06:14 <Zakim> +Dave

Zakim IRC Bot: +Dave

13:06:29 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make this record team-only

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: rrsagent, please make this record team-only

13:06:56 <Zakim> -Ivan

Scribe problem: the name 'Ivan' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

13:07:05 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-home

Scribe problem: the name 'ivan' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'ivan' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ivan: zakim, dial ivan-home

13:07:05 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

13:07:07 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

13:07:34 <Zakim> +Dom

Zakim IRC Bot: +Dom

13:07:51 <ph> zakim, call philipp-617

Scribe problem: the name 'ph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'ph' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ph: zakim, call philipp-617

13:07:51 <Zakim> ok, ph; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ph; the call is being made

13:07:53 <Zakim> +Philipp

Zakim IRC Bot: +Philipp

13:08:05 <r12a> zakim, dial ishida

Scribe problem: the name 'r12a' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'r12a' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown r12a: zakim, dial ishida

13:08:05 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, r12a; the call is being made

13:08:07 <Zakim> +Ishida

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ishida

13:08:33 <r12a> zakim, mute ishida

Scribe problem: the name 'r12a' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'r12a' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown r12a: zakim, mute ishida

13:08:33 <Zakim> Ishida should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ishida should now be muted

13:08:39 <cedric> zakim, dial cedric-617

Scribe problem: the name 'cedric' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'cedric' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown cedric: zakim, dial cedric-617

13:08:39 <Zakim> ok, cedric; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, cedric; the call is being made

13:08:41 <Zakim> +Cedric

Zakim IRC Bot: +Cedric

13:08:52 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make this record member-visible

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: rrsagent, please make this record member-visible

13:09:12 <cedric> zakim, mute me

Scribe problem: the name 'cedric' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'cedric' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown cedric: zakim, mute me

13:09:12 <Zakim> Cedric should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Cedric should now be muted

13:09:20 <RalphS> rrsagent, please make this record team-only

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: rrsagent, please make this record team-only

13:09:36 <vivien> Zakim, dial vivien-617

Scribe problem: the name 'vivien' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'vivien' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown vivien: Zakim, dial vivien-617

13:09:44 <Zakim> ok, vivien; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, vivien; the call is being made

13:10:11 <RalphS> [discussion on visibility of this meeting record -- we decide it's a Team meeting to which we've invited Hakon]

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: [discussion on visibility of this meeting record -- we decide it's a Team meeting to which we've invited Hakon]

13:10:18 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Dom

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Dom

13:11:13 <Zakim> +Vivien

Zakim IRC Bot: +Vivien

13:11:19 <vivien> Zakim, mute vivien

Scribe problem: the name 'vivien' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'vivien' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown vivien: Zakim, mute vivien

13:11:19 <Zakim> Vivien should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Vivien should now be muted

13:12:41 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Dom

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Dom

13:12:42 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Ishida (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Ishida (muted)

13:12:58 <Chris> zakim, pick a victim

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Chris: zakim, pick a victim

13:12:58 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Ted (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Ted (muted)

13:13:57 <r12a> ah sorry, could i squeeze out of scribing today - v bad timing

Scribe problem: the name 'r12a' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'r12a' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown r12a: ah sorry, could i squeeze out of scribing today - v bad timing

13:15:15 <SusanL> as I recall the "throne room" is painted in gold gilt, like the rest of Buckingham Palace

Scribe problem: the name 'SusanL' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'SusanL' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown SusanL: as I recall the "throne room" is painted in gold gilt, like the rest of Buckingham Palace

13:15:38 <Chris> zakim, pick a victim

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Chris: zakim, pick a victim

13:15:38 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Dave

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Dave

13:15:43 <Alan> zakim, code?

Scribe problem: the name 'Alan' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Alan' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Alan: zakim, code?

13:15:43 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), Alan

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), Alan

13:15:45 <Chris> Dave?

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Chris: Dave?

13:15:59 <Chris> good continuity, then

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Chris: good continuity, then

13:16:17 <Zakim> +Alan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alan

13:17:07 <jose> zakim, dial jose-617

Scribe problem: the name 'jose' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jose' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jose: zakim, dial jose-617

13:17:07 <Zakim> ok, jose; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, jose; the call is being made

13:17:09 <Zakim> +Jose

Zakim IRC Bot: +Jose

13:17:12 <jose> zakim, mute me

Scribe problem: the name 'jose' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jose' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jose: zakim, mute me

13:17:12 <Zakim> Jose should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Jose should now be muted

13:17:14 <Chris> zakim, mute everyone except me

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Chris: zakim, mute everyone except me

13:17:14 <Zakim> I don't understand 'mute everyone except me', Chris

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'mute everyone except me', Chris

13:17:15 <s-mon> zakim, dial simon-home

Scribe problem: the name 's-mon' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 's-mon' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown s-mon: zakim, dial simon-home

13:17:15 <Zakim> ok, s-mon; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, s-mon; the call is being made

13:17:37 <IanJ> zakim, pick someone less muscular than me.

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown IanJ: zakim, pick someone less muscular than me.

13:17:37 <Zakim> I don't understand 'pick someone less muscular than me', IanJ

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'pick someone less muscular than me', IanJ

13:17:38 <Zakim> +TimBL

Zakim IRC Bot: +TimBL

13:17:41 <IanJ> Tada

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown IanJ: Tada

13:18:19 <s-mon> hmm, no call from zakim yet.

Scribe problem: the name 's-mon' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 's-mon' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown s-mon: hmm, no call from zakim yet.

13:18:46 <Zakim> +Simon

Zakim IRC Bot: +Simon

13:18:53 <steve> zakim, call danc-mobile

Scribe problem: the name 'steve' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'steve' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown steve: zakim, call danc-mobile

13:18:53 <Zakim> ok, steve; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, steve; the call is being made

13:18:55 <Zakim> +Danc

Zakim IRC Bot: +Danc

13:19:21 <RalphS> zakim, drop danc

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: zakim, drop danc

13:19:21 <Zakim> Danc is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Danc is being disconnected

13:19:23 <Zakim> -Danc

Scribe problem: the name 'Danc' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Danc

13:19:56 <s-mon> zakim, mute simon

Scribe problem: the name 's-mon' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 's-mon' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown s-mon: zakim, mute simon

13:19:56 <Zakim> Simon should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Simon should now be muted

13:21:15 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Chris

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Chris

13:21:22 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Philipp

Zakim IRC Bot: Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Philipp

13:21:52 <RalphS> zakim, please call danc-mobile

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: zakim, please call danc-mobile

13:21:52 <Zakim> ok, RalphS; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, RalphS; the call is being made

13:21:54 <Zakim> +Danc

Zakim IRC Bot: +Danc

13:22:01 <Steven> Scribe: Dean

Scribe problem: the name 'Dean' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

(Scribe set to Unknown Dean)

13:22:09 <dino> ScribeNick: dino

Scribe problem: the name 'dino' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

(Scribe set to Unknown dino)

13:22:20 <dom> Meeting: XHTML 2 Project Review, part 2
13:22:23 <Zakim> +Mimasa

Zakim IRC Bot: +Mimasa

13:22:53 <dino> CL: We had a lot of discussion last week. Mostly Steven going through slides. THis is the spillover.

Scribe problem: the name 'dino' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'CL' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown CL: We had a lot of discussion last week. Mostly Steven going through slides. THis is the spillover.

13:23:04 <ht> zakim, please call ht-781

Scribe problem: the name 'ht' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'ht' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown ht: zakim, please call ht-781

13:23:04 <Zakim> ok, ht; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ht; the call is being made

13:23:06 <Zakim> +Ht

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ht

13:23:20 <dino> CL: The idea is to get something together so we can propose a charter to the membership.

Scribe problem: the name 'dino' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'CL' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown CL: The idea is to get something together so we can propose a charter to the membership.

13:23:33 <marie> zakim, dial mcf-617

Scribe problem: the name 'marie' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'marie' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown marie: zakim, dial mcf-617

13:23:33 <Zakim> ok, marie; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, marie; the call is being made

13:23:34 <Zakim> +Mcf

Zakim IRC Bot: +Mcf

13:23:39 <dino> CL: I invited Howcome and Tantek. Howcome is attending. Tantek can't.

Scribe problem: the name 'dino' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'CL' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown CL: I invited Howcome and Tantek. Howcome is attending. Tantek can't.

13:23:39 <Zakim> -Mimasa

Scribe problem: the name 'Mimasa' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Zakim IRC Bot: -Mimasa

13:23:42 <marie> zakim, mute mcf

Scribe problem: the name 'marie' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'marie' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown marie: zakim, mute mcf

13:23:42 <Zakim> Mcf should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Mcf should now be muted

13:23:45 <RalphS> agenda+ Namespace issue [Steven]

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: agenda+ Namespace issue [Steven]

13:23:47 <Chris> agenda+ xhtml2 namespaces

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Chris: agenda+ xhtml2 namespaces

13:23:51 <Chris> ha

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Chris: ha

13:24:06 <dino> SP: I'd like to make sure we cover the topic of namespaces. What are namespaces for, and when should you use a new one?

Scribe problem: the name 'dino' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'SP' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown SP: I'd like to make sure we cover the topic of namespaces. What are namespaces for, and when should you use a new one?

13:24:13 <RalphS> agenda 1 = Namespace issue: when to use a new one? [Steven]

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: agenda 1 = Namespace issue: when to use a new one? [Steven]

13:24:22 <RalphS> drop agendum 2

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: drop agendum 2

13:24:24 <dino> CL: Any other topics?

Scribe problem: the name 'dino' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'CL' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown CL: Any other topics?

13:24:34 <dino> TBL: Mimetypes is connected to namespaces.

Scribe problem: the name 'dino' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'TBL' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown TBL: Mimetypes is connected to namespaces.

13:24:36 <Chris> agenda+ MIME types

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Chris' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Chris: agenda+ MIME types

13:24:50 <Zakim> +Mimasa

Zakim IRC Bot: +Mimasa

13:25:18 <IanJ> Unapproved tag finding:

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown IanJ: Unapproved tag finding:

13:25:20 <IanJ> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/versioning-20031003

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown IanJ: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/versioning-20031003

13:25:26 <IanJ> "Versioning XML Languages"

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown IanJ: "Versioning XML Languages"

13:25:33 <IanJ> In particular:

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown IanJ: In particular:

13:25:38 <IanJ> "7.2 Namespace content changes"

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown IanJ: "7.2 Namespace content changes"

13:25:40 <IanJ> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/versioning-20031003#d0e850

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown IanJ: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/versioning-20031003#d0e850

13:25:59 <dom> [chaals informs me that Hakon is not around]

Scribe problem: the name 'dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'dom' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown dom: [chaals informs me that Hakon is not around]

13:26:00 <IanJ> See also:

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown IanJ: See also:

13:26:02 <IanJ> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2004Nov/att-0071/versioning-part1.html#ident

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown IanJ: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2004Nov/att-0071/versioning-part1.html#ident

13:26:06 <Steven> zakim, code?

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Steven' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Steven: zakim, code?

13:26:06 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), Steven

13:26:12 <IanJ> "8 Version Identification Strategies"

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'IanJ' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown IanJ: "8 Version Identification Strategies"

13:26:41 <dom> dom has changed the topic to: XHTML Project Review ad hoc channel | Conf code 94865 on Zakim

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Unknown dom: dom has changed the topic to: XHTML Project Review ad hoc channel | Conf code 94865 on Zakim

13:26:43 <Zakim> +Judy

Zakim IRC Bot: +Judy

13:27:34 <RalphS> agenda+ XHTML2 deployment; how do we get to the point where W3C's homepage is XHTML2? [DanC]

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Unknown RalphS: agenda+ XHTML2 deployment; how do we get to the point where W3C's homepage is XHTML2? [DanC]

13:27:40 <dino> RS: From last week: Deployment of XHTML2, Getting TAG into Namespace issue, Frequency of Publication, Marketplace of XML-based user agents, Group/Community

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Unknown RS: From last week: Deployment of XHTML2, Getting TAG into Namespace issue, Frequency of Publication, Marketplace of XML-based user agents, Group/Community

13:27:56 <RalphS> agenda+ is it cost-effective to get the TAG in the loop re namespace for XHTML 2? we already have an xmlVersioning-41 issue [DanC]

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Unknown RalphS: agenda+ is it cost-effective to get the TAG in the loop re namespace for XHTML 2? we already have an xmlVersioning-41 issue [DanC]

13:28:05 <Chris> agenda+  Deployment of XHTML2

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Unknown Chris: agenda+ Deployment of XHTML2

13:28:12 <RalphS> agenda+ do things like namespaces, hr show up in CR request as outstanding dissent? [DanC]

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Unknown RalphS: agenda+ do things like namespaces, hr show up in CR request as outstanding dissent? [DanC]

13:28:32 <Chris> agenda+ Getting TAG into Namespace issue

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Unknown Chris: agenda+ Getting TAG into Namespace issue

13:28:32 <RalphS> agenda+ how frequently should WDs be published

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Unknown RalphS: agenda+ how frequently should WDs be published

13:28:42 <RalphS> agenda+ marketplace of "XML-based user agents"? [DanC]

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Unknown RalphS: agenda+ marketplace of "XML-based user agents"? [DanC]

13:28:54 <Chris> agenda+ Marketplace of XML-based user agents

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Unknown Chris: agenda+ Marketplace of XML-based user agents

13:29:08 <Chris> agenda+ Group/Community

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Unknown Chris: agenda+ Group/Community

13:29:12 <Steven> zakim, dial danc-mobile

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Unknown Steven: zakim, dial danc-mobile

13:29:12 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made

13:29:14 <Chris> zakim, agenda?

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Unknown Chris: zakim, agenda?

13:29:14 <Zakim> I see 11 items remaining on the agenda:

Zakim IRC Bot: I see 11 items remaining on the agenda:

13:29:15 <Zakim> 1. Namespace issue: when to use a new one? [Steven]

Zakim IRC Bot: 1. Namespace issue: when to use a new one? [Steven]

13:29:18 <Zakim> 3. MIME types [from Chris]

Zakim IRC Bot: 3. MIME types [from Chris]

13:29:19 <Zakim> 4. XHTML2 deployment; how do we get to the point where W3C's homepage is XHTML2? [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 4. XHTML2 deployment; how do we get to the point where W3C's homepage is XHTML2? [from DanC via RalphS]

13:29:21 <Zakim> 5. is it cost-effective to get the TAG in the loop re namespace for XHTML 2? we already have an xmlVersioning-41 issue [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 5. is it cost-effective to get the TAG in the loop re namespace for XHTML 2? we already have an xmlVersioning-41 issue [from DanC via RalphS]

13:29:25 <Zakim> 6. Deployment of XHTML2 [from Chris]

Zakim IRC Bot: 6. Deployment of XHTML2 [from Chris]

13:29:26 <Zakim> 7. do things like namespaces, hr show up in CR request as outstanding dissent? [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 7. do things like namespaces, hr show up in CR request as outstanding dissent? [from DanC via RalphS]

13:29:29 <Zakim> 8. Getting TAG into Namespace issue [from Chris]

Zakim IRC Bot: 8. Getting TAG into Namespace issue [from Chris]

13:29:30 <Zakim> 9. how frequently should WDs be published [from RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 9. how frequently should WDs be published [from RalphS]

13:29:32 <Zakim> 10. marketplace of "XML-based user agents"? [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 10. marketplace of "XML-based user agents"? [from DanC via RalphS]

13:29:33 <Zakim> 11. Marketplace of XML-based user agents [from Chris]

Zakim IRC Bot: 11. Marketplace of XML-based user agents [from Chris]

13:29:34 <Zakim> 12. Group/Community [from Chris]

Zakim IRC Bot: 12. Group/Community [from Chris]

13:29:36 <Zakim> -Danc

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Danc

13:29:38 <Zakim> +Danc

Zakim IRC Bot: +Danc

13:29:38 <Chris> zakim, drop agendum 8

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Unknown Chris: zakim, drop agendum 8

13:29:40 <Zakim> agendum 8, Getting TAG into Namespace issue, dropped

Zakim IRC Bot: agendum 8, Getting TAG into Namespace issue, dropped

13:29:49 <Zakim> -Danc

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Danc

13:29:54 <Zakim> +Danc

Zakim IRC Bot: +Danc

13:30:49 <Chris> zakim, agenda?

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Unknown Chris: zakim, agenda?

13:30:49 <Zakim> I see 10 items remaining on the agenda:

Zakim IRC Bot: I see 10 items remaining on the agenda:

13:30:50 <Zakim> 1. Namespace issue: when to use a new one? [Steven]

Zakim IRC Bot: 1. Namespace issue: when to use a new one? [Steven]

13:30:52 <Zakim> 3. MIME types [from Chris]

Zakim IRC Bot: 3. MIME types [from Chris]

13:30:53 <Zakim> 4. XHTML2 deployment; how do we get to the point where W3C's homepage is XHTML2? [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 4. XHTML2 deployment; how do we get to the point where W3C's homepage is XHTML2? [from DanC via RalphS]

13:30:56 <Zakim> 5. is it cost-effective to get the TAG in the loop re namespace for XHTML 2? we already have an xmlVersioning-41 issue [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 5. is it cost-effective to get the TAG in the loop re namespace for XHTML 2? we already have an xmlVersioning-41 issue [from DanC via RalphS]

13:30:59 <Zakim> 6. Deployment of XHTML2 [from Chris]

Zakim IRC Bot: 6. Deployment of XHTML2 [from Chris]

13:31:00 <Zakim> 7. do things like namespaces, hr show up in CR request as outstanding dissent? [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 7. do things like namespaces, hr show up in CR request as outstanding dissent? [from DanC via RalphS]

13:31:02 <Zakim> 9. how frequently should WDs be published [from RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 9. how frequently should WDs be published [from RalphS]

13:31:03 <Zakim> 10. marketplace of "XML-based user agents"? [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 10. marketplace of "XML-based user agents"? [from DanC via RalphS]

13:31:05 <Zakim> 11. Marketplace of XML-based user agents [from Chris]

Zakim IRC Bot: 11. Marketplace of XML-based user agents [from Chris]

13:31:06 <Zakim> 12. Group/Community [from Chris]

Zakim IRC Bot: 12. Group/Community [from Chris]

13:31:07 <Chris> Topic: Namespace issue: when to use a new one?

1. Namespace issue: when to use a new one?

13:31:15 <Chris> zakim, take up agendum 1

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Unknown Chris: zakim, take up agendum 1

13:31:16 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Namespace issue: when to use a new one? [Steven]" taken up

2. Namespace issue: when to use a new one? [Steven]

13:31:44 <ph> ian posted the TAG doc which might/should handle that

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Unknown ph: ian posted the TAG doc which might/should handle that

13:31:54 <ph> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/versioning-20031003

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Unknown ph: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/versioning-20031003

13:32:01 <ph> versioning xml languages

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Unknown ph: versioning xml languages

13:32:04 <dino> SP: It seems that the world is split on this issue. A namespace only specifies a vocabulary and should only change when the vocab changes. However, in some software the namespace is used for dispatching.

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Unknown SP: It seems that the world is split on this issue. A namespace only specifies a vocabulary and should only change when the vocab changes. However, in some software the namespace is used for dispatching.

13:32:38 <dino> SP: Therefore some implementations require a new namespace to trigger a different processor.

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Unknown SP: Therefore some implementations require a new namespace to trigger a different processor.

13:32:46 <RalphS> q+ to support "the namespace name defines which semantics apply"

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Unknown RalphS: q+ to support "the namespace name defines which semantics apply"

13:32:55 <dino> SP: (Panasonic is asking for this)

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Unknown SP: (Panasonic is asking for this)

13:33:09 <dino> DC: Which elements have new semantics?

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Unknown DC: Which elements have new semantics?

13:33:13 <Chris> q?

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Unknown Chris: q?

13:33:16 <dino> SP: <input>

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Unknown SP: <input>

13:33:23 <Chris> zakim, ack ralphS

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Unknown Chris: zakim, ack ralphS

13:33:23 <Zakim> RalphS, you wanted to support "the namespace name defines which semantics apply"

Zakim IRC Bot: RalphS, you wanted to support "the namespace name defines which semantics apply"

13:33:24 <dino> [scribe missed the other one]

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Unknown SP: the src attribute has also now extended semantics

13:33:25 <Zakim> I see TimBL on the speaker queue

Zakim IRC Bot: I see TimBL on the speaker queue

13:33:44 <dino> RS: Difficult question. I think the namespace name defines the semantics.

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Unknown RS: Difficult question. I think the namespace name defines the semantics.

13:33:59 <dom> s/[scribe missed the other one]/SP: the src attribute has also now extended semantics/
13:34:13 <dino> RS: But the RDF WG did change namespaces over versions.

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Unknown RS: But the RDF WG did not change namespaces over versions.

13:34:34 <dino> RS: I fully support the semantics can be decided by looking at the namespace name.

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Unknown RS: I fully support the semantics can be decided by looking at the namespace name.

13:34:49 <dino> CL: It will be small differences and difficult to draw the line.

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Unknown CL: It will be small differences and difficult to draw the line.

13:34:53 <Chris> zakim, ack timbl

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Unknown Chris: zakim, ack timbl

13:34:53 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue

Zakim IRC Bot: I see no one on the speaker queue

13:34:57 <RalphS> s/RDF WG did/RDF WG did not/
13:35:06 <dino> TBL: It isn't just the distance; It's how much will break.

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Unknown TBL: It isn't just the distance; It's how much will break.

13:35:12 <dino> thx ralph

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thx ralph

13:35:34 <RalphS> TimBL: the architecture is that the semantics are determined from the namespace name

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Unknown TimBL: the architecture is that the semantics are determined from the namespace name [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

13:35:39 <dino> TBL: The architecture is that namespaces define semantics.

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Unknown TBL: The architecture is that namespaces define semantics.

13:35:46 <Alan> zakim, mute me

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Unknown Alan: zakim, mute me

13:35:46 <Zakim> Alan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Alan should now be muted

13:36:13 <maxf> zakim, dial maxf-617

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Unknown maxf: zakim, dial maxf-617

13:36:13 <Zakim> ok, maxf; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, maxf; the call is being made

13:36:15 <Zakim> +Maxf

Zakim IRC Bot: +Maxf

13:36:32 <dino> TBL: The HTMLWG has changed the language incrementally, looking at the cost to the community for keeping/changing namespaces

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Unknown TBL: The HTMLWG has changed the language incrementally, looking at the cost to the community for keeping/changing namespaces

13:37:05 <dino> TBL: The damage is that new tags don't work in old browsers (but not much breaks) and old documents work perfectly in new browsers.

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Unknown TBL: The damage is that new tags don't work in old browsers (but not much breaks) and old documents work perfectly in new browsers.

13:37:49 <dino> TBL: It's important to make sure we don't get any contradictions. The TAG should write this up better.

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Unknown TBL: It's important to make sure we don't get any contradictions. The TAG should write this up better.

13:37:58 <Chris> tim, done?

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Unknown Chris: tim, done?

13:38:04 <Zakim> -TimBL

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Zakim IRC Bot: -TimBL

13:38:53 <dino> TBL: In this case I think the HTML WG has done the right thing.

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Unknown TBL: In this case I think the HTML WG has done the right thing.

13:39:26 <dino> CL: For XHTML 1.0 the HTML WG were told to keep the same namespace for strict, traditional, etc.

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Unknown CL: For XHTML 1.0 the HTML WG were told to keep the same namespace for strict, traditional, etc.

13:39:32 <dino> HT: And XHTML 1.1

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Unknown HT: And XHTML 1.1

13:39:39 <Zakim> +TimBL

Zakim IRC Bot: +TimBL

13:40:08 <dino> SP: I can live with the decision that the namespace only applies to the schema and content model.

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Unknown SP: I can live with the decision that the namespace only applies to the schema and content model.

13:41:05 <dino> TBL: For XHTML2 it might be the right decision to keep the same namespace again.

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Unknown TBL: For XHTML2 it might be the right decision to keep the same namespace again.

13:41:39 <dino> TBL: HTML4 -> XHTML 1.0 was clear.

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Unknown TBL: HTML4 -> XHTML 1.0 was clear.

13:42:10 <dino> TBL: It was reasonable to tell everyone they've changed the language rather than invent a new one.

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Unknown TBL: It was reasonable to tell everyone they've changed the language rather than invent a new one.

13:42:51 <dino> TBL: It might be ok to keep the same namespace this time, but not if you rename <hr> to <separator> and remove <h1>, <h2>...

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Unknown TBL: It might be ok to keep the same namespace this time, but not if you rename <hr> to <separator> and remove <h1>, <h2>...

13:43:18 <Chris> q+ to tal about xml required in 2.0 vs optional in 1.0 and classic

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Unknown Chris: q+ to tal about xml required in 2.0 vs optional in 1.0 and classic

13:43:21 <dino> TBL: You can morph the language, but work with the larger community (eg. WHAT WG).

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Unknown TBL: You can morph the language, but work with the larger community (eg. WHAT WG).

13:43:57 <Zakim> Chris, you wanted to tal about xml required in 2.0 vs optional in 1.0 and classic

Zakim IRC Bot: Chris, you wanted to tal about xml required in 2.0 vs optional in 1.0 and classic

13:44:37 <dino> CL: One of the differences between HTML4, XHTML 1.0/1.1 is that XML is now required. I think this justifies a new media type and could justify a new namespace.

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Unknown CL: One of the differences between HTML4, XHTML 1.0/1.1 is that XML is now required. I think this justifies a new media type and could justify a new namespace.

13:44:43 <Zakim> +??P8

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8

13:45:01 <RalphS> q+ to ask Chris to explain a bit more

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Unknown RalphS: q+ to ask Chris to explain a bit more

13:45:04 <dino> CL: Otherwise the same handler will be required to implement all types.

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Unknown CL: Otherwise the same handler will be required to implement all types.

13:45:49 <dino> SP: I think that XHTML 1.1 is still being delivered as text/html

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Unknown SP: I think that XHTML 1.1 is still being delivered as text/html

13:45:52 <RalphS> zakim, ??p8 is Hakon

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Unknown RalphS: zakim, ??p8 is Hakon

13:45:52 <Zakim> +Hakon; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Hakon; got it

13:47:15 <Steven> q+

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Unknown Steven: q+

13:47:23 <dino> HL: I'm for gradual development. It is very hard to move from one discreet point to another. On the Web people copy and paste. It won't get much cleaner.

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Unknown HL: I'm for gradual development. It is very hard to move from one discreet point to another. On the Web people copy and paste. It won't get much cleaner.

13:47:35 <dino> HL: As a browser vendor we clean up as much as possible.

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Unknown HL: As a browser vendor we clean up as much as possible.

13:48:27 <dino> HL: However, the draconian XML rule of stopping processing when you encounter an error and punish the user is bad for us.

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Unknown HL: However, the draconian XML rule of stopping processing when you encounter an error and punish the user is bad for us.

13:48:37 <Zakim> -Ht

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Ht

13:48:42 <dino> SP: Does Opera key processing off namespaces?

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Unknown SP: Does Opera key processing off namespaces?

13:49:16 <dino> HL: I think so. But I doubt it will ever work on the Web. Namespaces are hard. People won't use it correctly, and if they don't we'll have to fix it up.

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Unknown HL: I think so. But I doubt it will ever work on the Web. Namespaces are hard. People won't use it correctly, and if they don't we'll have to fix it up.

13:49:22 <RalphS> Hakon: namespaces will be one of those things that will be hard to force users to get right -- and if they don't get it right we'll probalby have to "fix it up" for them

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Unknown Hakon: namespaces will be one of those things that will be hard to force users to get right -- and if they don't get it right we'll probalby have to "fix it up" for them [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

13:49:42 <MSM> zakim, please call Michael-Office

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Unknown MSM: zakim, please call Michael-Office

13:49:42 <Zakim> ok, MSM; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, MSM; the call is being made

13:49:44 <Zakim> +Michael

Zakim IRC Bot: +Michael

13:49:45 <dino> HL: Example: WAP.

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Unknown HL: Example: WAP.

13:50:12 <dino> SP: The problem is processing HTML differently from what the specification says.

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Unknown SP: The problem is processing HTML differently from what the specification says.

13:50:15 <IanJ> zakim, who's making noise?

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Unknown IanJ: zakim, who's making noise?

13:50:27 <Zakim> IanJ, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: MIT531 (36%), TimBL (22%), Judy (32%), Hakon (53%), Steven (8%)

Zakim IRC Bot: IanJ, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: MIT531 (36%), TimBL (22%), Judy (32%), Hakon (53%), Steven (8%)

13:50:36 <dino> HL: If the document is correct we'll display it correctly. It's the error handling that is the problem.

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Unknown HL: If the document is correct we'll display it correctly. It's the error handling that is the problem.

13:50:59 <dino> HL: THere are so many broken documents out there. Many W3C specs are hard to author.

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Unknown HL: THere are so many broken documents out there. Many W3C specs are hard to author.

13:51:00 <IanJ> I believe that Tantek thinks that namespaces will be the downfall of W3C

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Unknown IanJ: I believe that Tantek thinks that namespaces will be the downfall of W3C

13:51:16 <IanJ> He proposed at one point a "W3C namespace" that includes all the elements of the various w3c specs.

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Unknown IanJ: He proposed at one point a "W3C namespace" that includes all the elements of the various w3c specs.

13:51:24 <Bert> q+ to say that, if namespaces have meaning, you can't have more namespaces than MIME types (but you can have fewer).

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Unknown Bert: q+ to say that, if namespaces have meaning, you can't have more namespaces than MIME types (but you can have fewer).

13:51:35 <Bert> I agree with Tantek, on both points.

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Unknown Bert: I agree with Tantek, on both points.

13:51:58 <Steven> q-

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Unknown Steven: q-

13:52:16 <MSM> what CL is saying did work for XML:  new content type, new expectations.  Surprisingly few complaints from SGML users about XML's draconian error handling

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Unknown MSM: what CL is saying did work for XML: new content type, new expectations. Surprisingly few complaints from SGML users about XML's draconian error handling

13:52:22 <dino> CL: If you start with a new media type, if content works in a new browser they get some benefit. At teh moment if someone makes their page valid they get no benefit.

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Unknown CL: If you start with a new media type, if content works in a new browser they get some benefit. At teh moment if someone makes their page valid they get no benefit.

13:52:29 <Bert> (Just look at the time we spend on discussing namespaces. We clearly dug a trap for ourselves :-( )

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Unknown Bert: (Just look at the time we spend on discussing namespaces. We clearly dug a trap for ourselves :-( )

13:52:30 <dino> CL: And thus no incentive to do it.

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Unknown CL: And thus no incentive to do it.

13:52:55 <dino> HL: I think starting a new media type won't work.

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Unknown HL: I think starting a new media type won't work.

13:53:01 <dino> CL: It's worked with Flash.

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Unknown CL: It's worked with Flash.

13:53:20 <dino> HL: We also tried it with XML, but implementations ignored the rules and fixed the markup.

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Unknown HL: We also tried it with XML, but implementations ignored the rules and fixed the markup.

13:53:44 <dino> HL: If one of our competitors fixes the bad documents, then we have to do it as well.

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Unknown HL: If one of our competitors fixes the bad documents, then we have to do it as well.

13:53:47 <IanJ> On namspaces (Tantek and DanC):http://lesscode.org/2005/07/30/complexity-bureaucracy-fairness/

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Unknown IanJ: On namspaces (Tantek and DanC):http://lesscode.org/2005/07/30/complexity-bureaucracy-fairness/

13:54:22 <dino> MSM: Hakon has just recapitulated the deciding argument as to why errors cause processing to stop.

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Unknown MSM: Hakon has just recapitulated the deciding argument as to why errors cause processing to stop.

13:54:57 <dino> MSM: The only way you can prevent this is to strongly state in the spec that it is *not* XML.

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Unknown MSM: The only way you can prevent this is to strongly state in the spec that it is *not* XML.

13:55:03 <RalphS> MSM: "it's a race to the bottom" [to require strict well-formedness]

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Unknown MSM: "it's a race to the bottom" [to require strict well-formedness] [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

13:55:19 <dino> MSM: It's worked. People don't claim to be conforming XML processors if they accept non well-formed content.

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Unknown MSM: It's worked. People don't claim to be conforming XML processors if they accept non well-formed content.

13:55:22 <Chris> q?

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Unknown Chris: q?

13:55:56 <r12a> it's down to the tools

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Unknown r12a: it's down to the tools

13:56:07 <r12a> all my pages are well-formed and valid !

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Unknown r12a: all my pages are well-formed and valid !

13:56:07 <dino> DC: It's true that people don't claim to be XML processors. If you want all your XML to be well-formed, then you need it to be generated by machines.

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Unknown DC: It's true that people don't claim to be XML processors. If you want all your XML to be well-formed, then you need it to be generated by machines.

13:56:20 <r12a> because my tool won't allow me to do otherwise

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Unknown r12a: because my tool won't allow me to do otherwise

13:56:24 <dino> DC: Apple just released a bunch of software that produces and reads non valid XML.

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Unknown DC: Apple just released a bunch of software that produces and reads non valid XML.

13:56:56 <ph> danc: designer said to me that most effective way to do cross-browser content is xhtml-strict and css

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Unknown danc: designer said to me that most effective way to do cross-browser content is xhtml-strict and css [ Scribe Assist by Unknown ph ]

13:57:01 <Bert> IanJ, that article missses the point: yes, globally unique short names are (somewhat) scarce, but people want short names *in context*. Just like "Ian" is not very unique gloabbly, but onthis telcon, it is pretty unambiguous...

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Unknown Bert: IanJ, that article missses the point: yes, globally unique short names are (somewhat) scarce, but people want short names *in context*. Just like "Ian" is not very unique gloabbly, but onthis telcon, it is pretty unambiguous...

13:57:04 <dino> DC: I've been told that the best way to [scribe missed]

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Unknown DC: I've been told that the best way to create cross browser content is strict xhtml plus css

13:57:05 <MSM> I think s/non valid XML/non well-formed XML/

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Unknown MSM: I think s/non valid XML/non well-formed XML/

13:57:38 <Chris> s/[scribe missed]/create cross browser content is strict xhtml plus css/
13:57:44 <Zakim> RalphS, you wanted to ask Chris to explain a bit more and to disagree with Bert

Zakim IRC Bot: RalphS, you wanted to ask Chris to explain a bit more and to disagree with Bert

13:57:45 <dino> RS: I don't think the spec should accomodate non well-formed content, but processors may.

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Unknown RS: I don't think the spec should accomodate non well-formed content, but processors may.

13:58:11 <ph> q+

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Unknown ph: q+

13:59:14 <Steven> q+

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Unknown Steven: q+

13:59:23 <Steven> q-

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Unknown Steven: q-

13:59:37 <Steven> q+ to ask about CSS being delivered with the same mime type

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Unknown Steven: q+ to ask about CSS being delivered with the same mime type

13:59:39 <dino> BB: The discussion on namespaces should happen after a discussion on mime types. You need to know the mime type first. Unless there is a second mimetype for a second version, then there is no need for a new namespace. However, you can have less namespaces than mimetypes. Eg. WICD has a new MIME type but not a new namespace.

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Unknown BB: The discussion on namespaces should happen after a discussion on mime types. You need to know the mime type first. Unless there is a second mimetype for a second version, then there is no need for a new namespace. However, you can have less namespaces than mimetypes. Eg. WICD has a new MIME type but not a new namespace.

13:59:57 <Chris> zakim, agenda?

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Unknown Chris: zakim, agenda?

13:59:57 <Zakim> I see 10 items remaining on the agenda:

Zakim IRC Bot: I see 10 items remaining on the agenda:

13:59:58 <Zakim> 1. Namespace issue: when to use a new one? [Steven]

Zakim IRC Bot: 1. Namespace issue: when to use a new one? [Steven]

14:00:01 <Zakim> 3. MIME types [from Chris]

Zakim IRC Bot: 3. MIME types [from Chris]

14:00:03 <Zakim> 4. XHTML2 deployment; how do we get to the point where W3C's homepage is XHTML2? [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 4. XHTML2 deployment; how do we get to the point where W3C's homepage is XHTML2? [from DanC via RalphS]

14:00:06 <Zakim> 5. is it cost-effective to get the TAG in the loop re namespace for XHTML 2? we already have an xmlVersioning-41 issue [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 5. is it cost-effective to get the TAG in the loop re namespace for XHTML 2? we already have an xmlVersioning-41 issue [from DanC via RalphS]

14:00:09 <Zakim> 6. Deployment of XHTML2 [from Chris]

Zakim IRC Bot: 6. Deployment of XHTML2 [from Chris]

14:00:10 <Zakim> 7. do things like namespaces, hr show up in CR request as outstanding dissent? [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 7. do things like namespaces, hr show up in CR request as outstanding dissent? [from DanC via RalphS]

14:00:13 <Zakim> 9. how frequently should WDs be published [from RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 9. how frequently should WDs be published [from RalphS]

14:00:15 <Zakim> 10. marketplace of "XML-based user agents"? [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 10. marketplace of "XML-based user agents"? [from DanC via RalphS]

14:00:17 <Zakim> 11. Marketplace of XML-based user agents [from Chris]

Zakim IRC Bot: 11. Marketplace of XML-based user agents [from Chris]

14:00:19 <Zakim> 12. Group/Community [from Chris]

Zakim IRC Bot: 12. Group/Community [from Chris]

14:00:21 <dino> RS: I disagree with Bert. I think it is a mistake to overload the content type to represent semantics. It is clear that the content type represents more than encoding.

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Unknown RS: I disagree with Bert. I think it is a mistake to overload the content type to represent semantics. It is clear that the content type represents more than encoding.

14:00:50 <Chris> MIME types is actually orthogonal to encodingaccording to IETF ....

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Unknown Chris: MIME types is actually orthogonal to encodingaccording to IETF ....

14:01:00 <Zakim> -Mcf

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Mcf

14:01:06 <Chris> q?

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Unknown Chris: q?

14:01:26 <Chris> ack Bert

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Unknown Chris: ack Bert

14:01:26 <Zakim> Bert, you wanted to say that, if namespaces have meaning, you can't have more namespaces than MIME types (but you can have fewer).

Zakim IRC Bot: Bert, you wanted to say that, if namespaces have meaning, you can't have more namespaces than MIME types (but you can have fewer).

14:01:29 <dino> RS: It should not be broadened to represent all the semantics. The content type is a place where implementations can dispatch, but I strongly belive in mixed-namespace XML documents - so you need to dispatch on namespace as well. Don't overload the content type so that all the handlers are covered by that.

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Unknown RS: It should not be broadened to represent all the semantics. The content type is a place where implementations can dispatch, but I strongly belive in mixed-namespace XML documents - so you need to dispatch on namespace as well. Don't overload the content type so that all the handlers are covered by that.

14:01:34 <Chris> ack Ralph

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Unknown Chris: ack Ralph

14:01:34 <Zakim> RalphS, you wanted to ask Chris about non-XML requirement in XHTML1 vs strong XML requirement in XHTML2

Zakim IRC Bot: RalphS, you wanted to ask Chris about non-XML requirement in XHTML1 vs strong XML requirement in XHTML2

14:01:35 <RalphS> if processors accomodate non-well-formed content then users who use those extensions do so at their own risk

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Unknown RalphS: if processors accomodate non-well-formed content then users who use those extensions do so at their own risk

14:01:53 <timbl_> q+

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Unknown timbl_: q+

14:02:01 <Chris> ack ph

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Unknown Chris: ack ph

14:02:01 <dino> BB: You can use MIME types in the same way. Atom does this. WOrks for many other types: CSS, Javascript, PNG, CGM, etc.

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Unknown BB: You can use MIME types in the same way. Atom does this. WOrks for many other types: CSS, Javascript, PNG, CGM, etc.

14:02:05 <timbl_> q+ to talk about dispatchjing on namespaces

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Unknown timbl_: q+ to talk about dispatchjing on namespaces

14:02:19 <MSM> question: Bert, how do I use a mime type to provide information about part of an XML document?

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Unknown question: Bert, how do I use a mime type to provide information about part of an XML document? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown MSM ]

14:02:48 <Bert> MSM, e.g.: <style type="text/css">...</style>

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Unknown Bert: MSM, e.g.: <style type="text/css">...</style>

14:03:02 <MSM> mime types work fine for multipart MIME, but for other methods of building a compound document they are problematic at best

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Unknown MSM: mime types work fine for multipart MIME, but for other methods of building a compound document they are problematic at best

14:03:24 <dino> PH: Dan's comment about using XHTML strict in order to get cross browser compatibility. With Mobile we have more browsers. Unlikely that they all correct errors in the same way. Different situation from desktop where IE's dominance causes all implementations to follow it.

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Unknown PH: Dan's comment about using XHTML strict in order to get cross browser compatibility. With Mobile we have more browsers. Unlikely that they all correct errors in the same way. Different situation from desktop where IE's dominance causes all implementations to follow it.

14:03:33 <timbl_> levels of civilization.   1. Dispatch ofn mime type.  Simpe and effective and wrks.  2. Brand as +xml and diaptch on namespace OR mime type which MUST match. See TAG discuussion.  3. Mix  anmespaces.  needs common semantic framework (RDF, CDF).  the mimetype then defines the framework, and *could* list features needed.

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Unknown timbl_: levels of civilization. 1. Dispatch ofn mime type. Simpe and effective and wrks. 2. Brand as +xml and diaptch on namespace OR mime type which MUST match. See TAG discuussion. 3. Mix anmespaces. needs common semantic framework (RDF, CDF). the mimetype then defines the framework, and *could* list features needed.

14:03:46 <dino> PH: Have the Atom crowd defined any error correction for XML?

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Unknown PH: Have the Atom crowd defined any error correction for XML?

14:04:03 <timbl_> q?

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Unknown timbl_: q?

14:04:07 <dino> PH: I know Opera have reverse engineered error handling for HTML.

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Unknown PH: I know Opera have reverse engineered error handling for HTML.

14:04:12 <Chris> ack Ralph

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Unknown Chris: ack Ralph

14:04:12 <Zakim> RalphS, you wanted to disagree with Bert

Zakim IRC Bot: RalphS, you wanted to disagree with Bert

14:04:19 <MSM> Bert, thanks for the example - I suppose if new MIME types were easier to create it would be less oppressive.  But the decentralization of namespaces is a strong advantage MIME types lack

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Unknown MSM: Bert, thanks for the example - I suppose if new MIME types were easier to create it would be less oppressive. But the decentralization of namespaces is a strong advantage MIME types lack

14:05:11 <dino> RS: An implementation of XHTML 1 didn't strictly require XML. But then you (Chris) noted that XHTML2 will require XML. My question is was that an argument in favour of changing the namespace?

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Unknown RS: An implementation of XHTML 1 didn't strictly require XML. But then you (Chris) noted that XHTML2 will require XML. My question is was that an argument in favour of changing the namespace?

14:05:12 <Bert> (MSM, for W3C, MIME types are as easy to create as namespaces, thanks to our special liaison with the IETF :-) )

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Unknown Bert: (MSM, for W3C, MIME types are as easy to create as namespaces, thanks to our special liaison with the IETF :-) )

14:05:16 <dino> CL: Yes.

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Unknown CL: Yes.

14:05:31 <Zakim> -Simon

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Simon

14:05:37 <s-mon> zakim, dial simon-home

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Unknown s-mon: zakim, dial simon-home

14:05:37 <Zakim> ok, s-mon; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, s-mon; the call is being made

14:05:38 <Zakim> +Simon

Zakim IRC Bot: +Simon

14:05:43 <Chris> q?

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Unknown Chris: q?

14:05:49 <Chris> ack Steven

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Unknown Chris: ack Steven

14:05:49 <Zakim> Steven, you wanted to ask about CSS being delivered with the same mime type

Zakim IRC Bot: Steven, you wanted to ask about CSS being delivered with the same mime type

14:06:01 <Bert> (But the real point is not how difficult it is to create a MIME type or namespace, but how difficult it is to get implementations for them.)

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Unknown Bert: (But the real point is not how difficult it is to create a MIME type or namespace, but how difficult it is to get implementations for them.)

14:06:02 <Zakim> -SusanL

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Zakim IRC Bot: -SusanL

14:06:07 <Zakim> +EricM

Zakim IRC Bot: +EricM

14:06:07 <Chris> Chris closes the Q on this agenda item

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Unknown Chris: Chris closes the Q on this agenda item

14:06:23 <dino> SP: I wanted to ask Bert about semantics changing requiring a new mime type. CSS 1 and 2 used the same mime type.

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Unknown SP: I wanted to ask Bert about semantics changing requiring a new mime type. CSS 1 and 2 used the same mime type.

14:06:40 <MSM> Bert, it depends on your context.  In situations where I plan to create my own implementation and not depend on others, mime types are no help to me at all, but namespaces allow me to do what I need.

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Unknown MSM: Bert, it depends on your context. In situations where I plan to create my own implementation and not depend on others, mime types are no help to me at all, but namespaces allow me to do what I need.

14:06:57 <IanJ> Semantics changes from CSS 1: http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-CSS2-19980512/changes.html#changes-from-css1

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Unknown IanJ: Semantics changes from CSS 1: http://www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-CSS2-19980512/changes.html#changes-from-css1

14:06:59 <RalphS> [Chris noted that his comment about XML required for XHTML2 vs XHTML1 was strictly about well-formedness, not extending to validiy]

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Unknown RalphS: [Chris noted that his comment about XML required for XHTML2 vs XHTML1 was strictly about well-formedness, not extending to validiy]

14:07:08 <dino> BB: I think this is a versioning discussion.

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Unknown BB: I think this is a versioning discussion.

14:07:18 <dino> SP: What about the initial value of display?

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Unknown SP: What about the initial value of display?

14:07:25 <dino> BB: THat was an error we fixed.

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Unknown BB: THat was an error we fixed.

14:07:37 <Zakim> -Dave

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Dave

14:07:44 <dino> BB: If we changed the box-model then it would require a new namespace.

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Unknown BB: If we changed the box-model then it would require a new namespace.

14:07:50 <Chris> ack Timbl

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Unknown Chris: ack Timbl

14:07:50 <Zakim> timbl_, you wanted to talk about dispatchjing on namespaces

Zakim IRC Bot: timbl_, you wanted to talk about dispatchjing on namespaces

14:08:09 <IanJ> I hear BB saying "Fixing acknowledged errors does not imply you should change media type"

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Unknown IanJ: I hear BB saying "Fixing acknowledged errors does not imply you should change media type"

14:08:11 <Chris> dan, I'm trying to drain the q to get to the next agendum

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Unknown Chris: dan, I'm trying to drain the q to get to the next agendum

14:08:22 <Chris> are you wanting to talk about this issue?

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Unknown Chris: are you wanting to talk about this issue?

14:08:28 <dino> TBL: The fundamental architecture of the web is that you dispatch on mime type. However dispatching on namespaces is also useful.

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Unknown TBL: The fundamental architecture of the web is that you dispatch on mime type. However dispatching on namespaces is also useful.

14:08:50 <Dave> zakim, code?

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Unknown Dave: zakim, code?

14:08:50 <Zakim> the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), Dave

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 94865 (tel:+1.617.761.6200), Dave

14:08:55 <dino> TBL: 1st Level: image/svg dispatches to an SVG processor

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Unknown TBL: 1st Level: image/svg dispatches to an SVG processor

14:09:13 <Zakim> +Dave

Zakim IRC Bot: +Dave

14:09:33 <Zakim> -Olivier

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Olivier

14:09:51 <dino> TBL: 2nd Level: Namespace and MIMEType dispatching. Important that they agree.

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Unknown TBL: 2nd Level: Namespace and MIMEType dispatching. Important that they agree.

14:10:07 <dino> TBL: Similar to encoding. The HTTP encoding should rule.

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Unknown TBL: Similar to encoding. The HTTP encoding should rule.

14:10:16 <Chris> TimBL: The MIME and the namespace ave to agree, its like the TAG said regarding labelling the encoding twice for xml

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Unknown TimBL: The MIME and the namespace ave to agree, its like the TAG said regarding labelling the encoding twice for xml [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Chris ]

14:10:52 <dino> TBL: 3rd Level: When you are really using mixed namespaces (eg. CDF or RDF) then you need some kind of semantic framework.

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Unknown TBL: 3rd Level: When you are really using mixed namespaces (eg. CDF or RDF) then you need some kind of semantic framework.

14:11:02 <RalphS> [ooh -- we could require *servers* to validate -- if your XML document is not well-formed, a conformant HTTP server should return some 5xx code]

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Unknown RalphS: [ooh -- we could require *servers* to validate -- if your XML document is not well-formed, a conformant HTTP server should return some 5xx code]

14:11:23 <Bert> MSM, in your context *anything* works, MIME types too. Or changing the XML syntax itself. You don't have to tell anybody anything anyway.

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Unknown Bert: MSM, in your context *anything* works, MIME types too. Or changing the XML syntax itself. You don't have to tell anybody anything anyway.

14:11:51 <dino> TBL: RDF has a framework. CDF has a framework. Within that it is reasonable for the namespace to mark the framework.

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Unknown TBL: RDF has a framework. CDF has a framework. Within that it is reasonable for the namespace to mark the framework.

14:12:15 <dino> TBL: If you have an RDF or CDF handler, you can fire it up to handle the content, based on MIME type.

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Unknown TBL: If you have an RDF or CDF handler, you can fire it up to handle the content, based on MIME type.

14:12:27 <dino> TBL: Only conflict is at the 2nd level.

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Unknown TBL: Only conflict is at the 2nd level.

14:12:54 <Chris> Dan is the last one on this topic

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Unknown Chris: Dan is the last one on this topic

14:13:05 <dino> DC: Is this a proposal for the AC, for the HTML WG or for the TAG?

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Unknown DC: Is this a proposal for the AC, for the HTML WG or for the TAG?

14:14:00 <dino> DC: Tim, do you want the HTML WG to talk to the TAG?

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Unknown DC: Tim, do you want the HTML WG to talk to the TAG?

14:14:06 <RalphS> Ralph: the current [July 2005] XHTML2 WD does give a new namespace name

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Unknown Ralph: the current [July 2005] XHTML2 WD does give a new namespace name [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

14:14:12 <RalphS> TimBL: that may be a mistake

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Unknown TimBL: that may be a mistake [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

14:14:47 <dino> TBL: Yes. I'd like to give the HTML WG a choice between sticking with the same namespace but taking on board the input from the WHAT WG

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Unknown TBL: Yes. I'd like to give the HTML WG a choice between sticking with the same namespace but taking on board the input from the WHAT WG

14:15:32 <dino> TBL: Or changing the namespace and the mimetype and calling it something else.

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Unknown TBL: Or changing the namespace and the mimetype and calling it something else.

14:15:45 <r12a> tim probably doesn't know he's muted

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Unknown r12a: tim probably doesn't know he's muted

14:15:50 <r12a> ralph

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Unknown r12a: ralph

14:15:56 <dino> DJ: My suggestion is that the W3C do both

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Unknown DJ: My suggestion is that the W3C do both

14:15:57 <Zakim> -Alan

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan

14:15:58 <Chris> zakim, take up agendum 2

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Unknown Chris: zakim, take up agendum 2

14:15:59 <Zakim> agendum 2. "xhtml2 namespaces" taken up [from Chris]

3. xhtml2 namespaces

14:16:06 <r12a> ah ok

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Unknown r12a: ah ok

14:16:06 <Chris> Topic: MIME Type

4. MIME Type

14:16:26 <dino> CL: We've already talked about this a bit. Any new comments?

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Unknown CL: We've already talked about this a bit. Any new comments?

14:16:48 <dino> SP: It should be remarked that the mobile community use the namespace with a parameter.

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Unknown SP: It should be remarked that the mobile community use the namespace with a parameter.

14:17:16 <dino> CL: They only use that in accept headers. They don't expect the server to use it in response.

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Unknown CL: They only use that in accept headers. They don't expect the server to use it in response.

14:17:33 <timbl_> what is it they just send in accept header?

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Unknown timbl_: what is it they just send in accept header?

14:18:07 <Chris> media type

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Unknown Chris: media type

14:18:36 <dino> DC: [reminds people about the goal of this call]

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Unknown DC: [reminds people about the goal of this call]

14:18:49 <timbl_> Suggest hat the group should be chartered to evolve teh XHTML namespaec and the exiting  MIME type for xhtml1

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Unknown timbl_: Suggest hat the group should be chartered to evolve teh XHTML namespaec and the exiting MIME type for xhtml1

14:19:25 <Chris> q?

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Unknown Chris: q?

14:19:31 <IanJ> q+

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Unknown IanJ: q+

14:19:51 <dino> TBL: Suggestion: We recharter the HTML WG to cover the group of the WHAT WG (talk to them, meet their requirements, evolve the HTML language and MIMEtype). If they want something different, call it something different.

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Unknown TBL: Suggestion: We recharter the HTML WG to cover the group of the WHAT WG (talk to them, meet their requirements, evolve the HTML language and MIMEtype). If they want something different, call it something different.

14:19:56 <dino> +1 to TimBL

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+1 to TimBL

14:20:11 <dino> SP: I think that is what we've been chartered.

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Unknown SP: I think that is what we've been chartered.

14:20:13 <dino> q+

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q+

14:21:00 <dino> SP: We've been listening to requirements. WHAT WG has a different set of requirements. I don't think Members like IBM will be happy if we ignore them.

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Unknown SP: We've been listening to requirements. WHAT WG has a different set of requirements. I don't think Members like IBM will be happy if we ignore them.

14:21:37 <IanJ> q+ my comment will be about creating two groups and one core set of elements

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Unknown IanJ: q+ my comment will be about creating two groups and one core set of elements

14:21:38 <dino> TBL: It should be possible to meet requirements from both groups of people. We don't need to throw one of them out.

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Unknown TBL: It should be possible to meet requirements from both groups of people. We don't need to throw one of them out.

14:21:47 <IanJ> q+ to add my comment will be about creating two groups and one core set of elements

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Unknown IanJ: q+ to add my comment will be about creating two groups and one core set of elements

14:21:57 <dino> SP: eg. <canvas> - the WAI group will scream.

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Unknown SP: eg. <canvas> - the WAI group will scream.

14:22:50 <dino> TBL: When there is something like <canvas> the task is not to produce a spec that doesn't have canvas, it is to find the people that want it and get them to understand, change their minds, or find a compromise.

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Unknown TBL: When there is something like <canvas> the task is not to produce a spec that doesn't have canvas, it is to find the people that want it and get them to understand, change their minds, or find a compromise.

14:23:25 <dino> TBL: You need to unite the community.

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Unknown TBL: You need to unite the community.

14:23:56 <Chris> zakim, ack danc

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Unknown Chris: zakim, ack danc

14:23:56 <Zakim> I see IanJ, dino on the speaker queue

Zakim IRC Bot: I see IanJ, dino on the speaker queue

14:24:03 <RalphS> +1 to reaching consensus including the broadest possible community, and avoid "consensus by partitioning"

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Unknown RalphS: +1 to reaching consensus including the broadest possible community, and avoid "consensus by partitioning"

14:24:04 <dino> TBL: Eg. Bridge the gap between HTML forms and XForms.

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Unknown TBL: Eg. Bridge the gap between HTML forms and XForms.

14:24:20 <dino> DC: Careful Tim. Their requirements is "No XForms".

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Unknown DC: Careful Tim. Their requirements is "No XForms".

14:24:30 <dino> TBL: That's a political statement.

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Unknown TBL: That's a political statement.

14:24:48 <IanJ> Canvas element: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#canvas

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Unknown IanJ: Canvas element: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#canvas

14:25:08 <IanJ> TBL: Does canvas fork SVG?

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Unknown TBL: Does canvas fork SVG? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown IanJ ]

14:25:14 <dino> HL: We didn't say "No XForms". We just wanted to evolve HTML forms.

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Unknown HL: We didn't say "No XForms". We just wanted to evolve HTML forms.

14:25:19 <IanJ> HWL: Different use cases; some overlap and developers will have to choose

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Unknown HWL: Different use cases; some overlap and developers will have to choose [ Scribe Assist by Unknown IanJ ]

14:25:37 <dino> I have an XTech paper on when to use canvas and when to use svg

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I have an XTech paper on when to use canvas and when to use svg

14:25:45 <dino> canvas can be accessible

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canvas can be accessible

14:25:55 <Chris> zakim, take up agendum 3

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Unknown Chris: zakim, take up agendum 3

14:25:56 <Zakim> agendum 3. "MIME types" taken up [from Chris]

5. MIME types

14:26:03 <Chris> zakim, take up agendum 4

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Unknown Chris: zakim, take up agendum 4

14:26:04 <Zakim> agendum 4. "XHTML2 deployment; how do we get to the point where W3C's homepage is XHTML2?" taken up [from DanC via RalphS]

6. XHTML2 deployment; how do we get to the point where W3C's homepage is XHTML2?

14:26:19 <Chris> Topic: XHTML2 deployment

7. XHTML2 deployment

Summary: Two groups, three specs (one core, one xhtml extensions, one html extensions).

14:26:46 <Chris> q?

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Unknown Chris: q?

14:26:48 <dino> TBL: There is a path that involves incremental change and keeping the same namespace.

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Unknown TBL: There is a path that involves incremental change and keeping the same namespace.

14:27:06 <RalphS> zakim, close agendum 1

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Unknown RalphS: zakim, close agendum 1

14:27:07 <Zakim> agendum 1, Namespace issue: when to use a new one? [Steven], closed

Zakim IRC Bot: agendum 1, Namespace issue: when to use a new one? [Steven], closed

14:27:11 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

Zakim IRC Bot: I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:27:17 <Zakim> 3. MIME types [from Chris]

Zakim IRC Bot: 3. MIME types [from Chris]

14:27:28 <IanJ> sth else

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Unknown IanJ: sth else

14:27:28 <dino> SP: The HTML WG do try to take on people's requirements. We don't necessarily take their suggestions, but we extract a requirement from them. We're not isolationist.

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Unknown SP: The HTML WG do try to take on people's requirements. We don't necessarily take their suggestions, but we extract a requirement from them. We're not isolationist.

14:27:34 <RalphS> zakim, close agendum 3

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Unknown RalphS: zakim, close agendum 3

14:27:34 <Zakim> agendum 3, MIME types, closed

Zakim IRC Bot: agendum 3, MIME types, closed

14:27:35 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

Zakim IRC Bot: I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is

14:27:36 <IanJ> charter-level question

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Unknown IanJ: charter-level question

14:27:37 <Zakim> 4. XHTML2 deployment; how do we get to the point where W3C's homepage is XHTML2? [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 4. XHTML2 deployment; how do we get to the point where W3C's homepage is XHTML2? [from DanC via RalphS]

14:27:41 <Chris> zakim, drop delete and kill agendum 3 because its a duplicate

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Unknown Chris: zakim, drop delete and kill agendum 3 because its a duplicate

14:27:41 <Zakim> I don't understand you, Chris

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand you, Chris

14:28:39 <dino> TBL: Steven, think of the group as HTML WG + WHAT WG. You're isolationist if you never do a round-trip with them.

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Unknown TBL: Steven, think of the group as HTML WG + WHAT WG. You're isolationist if you never do a round-trip with them.

14:28:47 <dino> TBL: They are part of the community.

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Unknown TBL: They are part of the community.

14:29:22 <dino> TBL: The community don't hear what the HTML WG is thinking.

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Unknown TBL: The community don't hear what the HTML WG is thinking.

14:29:58 <dino> TBL: "We heard you. We don't want to implement that. We propose an alternative and we got it out to you as quickly as possible"

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Unknown TBL: "We heard you. We don't want to implement that. We propose an alternative and we got it out to you as quickly as possible"

14:30:28 <dino> TBL: So that they can code the compromise rather than feel ignored.

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Unknown TBL: So that they can code the compromise rather than feel ignored.

14:30:33 <RalphS> oops!

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Unknown RalphS: oops!

14:30:39 <RalphS> zakim, where'd you go?

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Unknown RalphS: zakim, where'd you go?

14:30:56 <Chris> ack ian

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Unknown Chris: ack ian

14:30:59 <RalphS> zakim, this is xhtml

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Unknown RalphS: zakim, this is xhtml

14:31:00 <Zakim> sorry, RalphS, I do not see a conference named 'xhtml' in progress or scheduled at this time

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, RalphS, I do not see a conference named 'xhtml' in progress or scheduled at this time

14:31:08 <RalphS> zakim, this is xhmtl

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Unknown RalphS: zakim, this is xhmtl

14:31:08 <Zakim> sorry, RalphS, I do not see a conference named 'xhmtl' in progress or scheduled at this time

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, RalphS, I do not see a conference named 'xhmtl' in progress or scheduled at this time

14:31:16 <Chris> ack dino

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Unknown Chris: ack dino

14:31:18 <RalphS> zakim, this is xhtlm

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Unknown RalphS: zakim, this is xhtlm

14:31:18 <Zakim> ok, RalphS; that matches W3C_(XHTLM2)8:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, RalphS; that matches W3C_(XHTLM2)8:00AM

14:31:33 <RalphS> queue = IanJ, dino, DanC

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Unknown RalphS: queue = IanJ, dino, DanC

14:31:41 <RalphS> zakim, queue = IanJ, dino, DanC

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Unknown RalphS: zakim, queue = IanJ, dino, DanC

14:31:41 <Zakim> I don't understand 'queue = IanJ, dino, DanC', RalphS

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'queue = IanJ, dino, DanC', RalphS

14:31:45 <Chris> +1 to two WGs

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Unknown Chris: +1 to two WGs

14:31:58 <Chris> HTML-5 and HTML-X

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Unknown Chris: HTML-5 and HTML-X

14:32:01 <dino> IJ: An idea is to split the HTML WG in two: one doing HTML 5 and one doing XHTML2.

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Unknown IJ: An idea is to split the HTML WG in two: one doing HTML 5 and one doing XHTML2.

14:32:22 <dino> IJ: What's the difference set? Is there a core set of elements?

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Unknown IJ: What's the difference set? Is there a core set of elements?

14:32:59 <RalphS> agenda+ is it cost-effective to get the TAG in the loop re namespace for XHTML 2? we already have an xmlVersioning-41 issue  [DanC]

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Unknown RalphS: agenda+ is it cost-effective to get the TAG in the loop re namespace for XHTML 2? we already have an xmlVersioning-41 issue [DanC]

14:33:00 <dino> IJ: That might help the work continue at W3C.

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Unknown IJ: That might help the work continue at W3C.

14:33:29 <dino> IJ: I can't tell how much the communities want to work together.

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Unknown IJ: I can't tell how much the communities want to work together.

14:33:50 <dino> CL: I agree with Ian's suggestion.

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Unknown CL: I agree with Ian's suggestion.

14:34:00 <Chris> q+ hakon

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Unknown Chris: q+ hakon

14:34:15 <Chris> zakim, agenda?

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Unknown Chris: zakim, agenda?

14:34:15 <Zakim> I see 11 items remaining on the agenda:

Zakim IRC Bot: I see 11 items remaining on the agenda:

14:34:16 <Zakim> 1. dummy [from RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 1. dummy [from RalphS]

14:34:17 <Zakim> 2. dummy [from RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 2. dummy [from RalphS]

14:34:18 <Zakim> 3. dummy [from RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 3. dummy [from RalphS]

14:34:19 <Zakim> 4. dummy [from RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 4. dummy [from RalphS]

14:34:20 <Zakim> 5. is it cost-effective to get the TAG in the loop re namespace for XHTML 2? we already have an xmlVersioning-41 issue  [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 5. is it cost-effective to get the TAG in the loop re namespace for XHTML 2? we already have an xmlVersioning-41 issue [from DanC via RalphS]

14:34:23 <Zakim> 6. Deployment of XHTML2 [from Chris via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 6. Deployment of XHTML2 [from Chris via RalphS]

14:34:24 <Zakim> 7. do things like namespaces, hr show up in CR request as outstanding dissent? [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 7. do things like namespaces, hr show up in CR request as outstanding dissent? [from DanC via RalphS]

14:34:27 <Zakim> 8. dummy [from RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 8. dummy [from RalphS]

14:34:28 <Zakim> 9. how frequently should WDs be published [from RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 9. how frequently should WDs be published [from RalphS]

14:34:30 <Zakim> 10. marketplace of "XML-based user agents"? [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 10. marketplace of "XML-based user agents"? [from DanC via RalphS]

14:34:32 <Zakim> 11. dummy [from RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 11. dummy [from RalphS]

14:34:36 <IanJ> Summary: Two groups, three specs (one core, one xhtml extensions, one html extensions).
14:34:57 <IanJ> dino: Merge CDF WG with XHTML 2

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Unknown dino: Merge CDF WG with XHTML 2 [ Scribe Assist by Unknown IanJ ]

14:35:14 <IanJ> IJ: My question as well was -- do the 2 communities really want to work together?

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Unknown IJ: My question as well was -- do the 2 communities really want to work together? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown IanJ ]

14:35:18 <DanC_lap> q+ to wonder whether tim's description of getting consensus around a design for the next HTML spec is feasible, given the size of the community, and to advocate less design and more QA (testing, validator)

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Unknown DanC_lap: q+ to wonder whether tim's description of getting consensus around a design for the next HTML spec is feasible, given the size of the community, and to advocate less design and more QA (testing, validator)

14:35:26 <Chris> zakim, agenda?

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Unknown Chris: zakim, agenda?

14:35:30 <IanJ> Dean: Ian Hickson, I think, does not want to work with W3C and doesn't think having other editors will help the spec.

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Unknown Dean: Ian Hickson, I think, does not want to work with W3C and doesn't think having other editors will help the spec. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown IanJ ]

14:35:44 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:

Zakim IRC Bot: I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:

14:35:49 <Zakim> 5. is it cost-effective to get the TAG in the loop re namespace for XHTML 2? we already have an xmlVersioning-41 issue  [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 5. is it cost-effective to get the TAG in the loop re namespace for XHTML 2? we already have an xmlVersioning-41 issue [from DanC via RalphS]

14:35:55 <Zakim> 6. Deployment of XHTML2 [from Chris via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 6. Deployment of XHTML2 [from Chris via RalphS]

14:35:58 <Zakim> 7. do things like namespaces, hr show up in CR request as outstanding dissent? [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 7. do things like namespaces, hr show up in CR request as outstanding dissent? [from DanC via RalphS]

14:36:04 <Zakim> 9. how frequently should WDs be published [from RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 9. how frequently should WDs be published [from RalphS]

14:36:06 <Zakim> 10. marketplace of "XML-based user agents"? [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 10. marketplace of "XML-based user agents"? [from DanC via RalphS]

14:36:08 <Zakim> 12. Group/Community [from Chris via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 12. Group/Community [from Chris via RalphS]

14:36:31 <dino> DC: I say zero groups. Tim's suggestion is to have everyone involved. It is not clear we'll ever finish if we listen to everyone.

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Unknown DC: I say zero groups. Tim's suggestion is to have everyone involved. It is not clear we'll ever finish if we listen to everyone.

14:36:34 <IanJ> I don't think that the community is as large as DC says; I think that there are active areas of development and those are outside W3C and we'd like to have them onboard.

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Unknown IanJ: I don't think that the community is as large as DC says; I think that there are active areas of development and those are outside W3C and we'd like to have them onboard.

14:36:43 <Chris> ack danc

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Unknown Chris: ack danc

14:36:57 <dino> DC: Better to spend the time doing validators, etc. Shame the people into writing the correct code.

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Unknown DC: Better to spend the time doing validators, etc. Shame the people into writing the correct code.

14:37:18 <DanC_lap> zero design groups, that is

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Unknown DanC_lap: zero design groups, that is

14:37:45 <dino> HL: I worked very hard to get WHAT into W3C. It didn't work and that is a reason why IanH doesn't feel he needs W3C now.

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Unknown HL: I worked very hard to get WHAT into W3C. It didn't work and that is a reason why IanH doesn't feel he needs W3C now.

14:38:31 <DanC_lap> +1 doing specs along with code. that can reduce the design scope...

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Unknown DanC_lap: +1 doing specs along with code. that can reduce the design scope...

14:38:32 <dino> HL: The operation of the WHAT WG is a little different. If the specification disagrees with implementations then the spec will change. In some ways the implementation comes first.

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Unknown HL: The operation of the WHAT WG is a little different. If the specification disagrees with implementations then the spec will change. In some ways the implementation comes first.

14:38:50 <RalphS> argh!

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Unknown RalphS: argh!

14:38:57 <dino> HL: At the moment it is the coders who decide. They don't attend meetings.

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Unknown HL: At the moment it is the coders who decide. They don't attend meetings.

14:39:04 <DanC_lap> ... that would be an interesting damper on the incoming comments; comments a la "I want X.." would be out of order; only "I have coded Z; pls consider incorprating it"

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Unknown DanC_lap: ... that would be an interesting damper on the incoming comments; comments a la "I want X.." would be out of order; only "I have coded Z; pls consider incorprating it"

14:39:16 <RalphS> zakim, this is xhtlm

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Unknown RalphS: zakim, this is xhtlm

14:39:16 <Zakim> ok, RalphS; that matches W3C_(XHTLM2)8:00AM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, RalphS; that matches W3C_(XHTLM2)8:00AM

14:39:24 <dino> HL: I think having two groups will be productive. I hope they can both be inW#C.

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Unknown HL: I think having two groups will be productive. I hope they can both be in W3C.

14:39:28 <RalphS> zakim, queue=dino, DanC_lap

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Unknown RalphS: zakim, queue=dino, DanC_lap

14:39:28 <Zakim> I see dino, DanC_lap on the speaker queue

Zakim IRC Bot: I see dino, DanC_lap on the speaker queue

14:39:37 <dino> s/inW#C/in W3C/
14:40:03 <dino> HL: I hope we can have a WG in W3C where most of the people can attend. Email might work better than f2f.

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Unknown HL: I hope we can have a WG in W3C where most of the people can attend. Email might work better than f2f.

14:40:06 <Chris> q?

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Unknown Chris: q?

14:40:12 <Chris> q=

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Unknown Chris: q=

14:40:13 <dino> q-

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q-

14:40:17 <timbl_> q+

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Unknown timbl_: q+

14:40:22 <Chris> queue=

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Unknown Chris: queue=

14:40:30 <timbl_> ?

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Unknown timbl_: ?

14:41:02 <dino> TBL: [cries]

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Unknown TBL: [cries]

14:41:33 <Steven> q+

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Unknown Steven: q+

14:41:35 <dino> TBL: This way of working, code first, is the way we've tried to work. Maybe the charter should specify this more.

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Unknown TBL: This way of working, code first, is the way we've tried to work. Maybe the charter should specify this more.

14:41:52 <DanC_lap> (hmm... prioritizing input from implementations puts WAI at risk, I suspect.)

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Unknown DanC_lap: (hmm... prioritizing input from implementations puts WAI at risk, I suspect.)

14:42:22 <dino> TBL: Some WGs have been extremely implementation driven and test suite driven, making CR more coordination than developing tests.

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Unknown TBL: Some WGs have been extremely implementation driven and test suite driven, making CR more coordination than developing tests.

14:42:49 <dino> TBL: I absolutely agree that this is a good way of working and the charter should make this clear.

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Unknown TBL: I absolutely agree that this is a good way of working and the charter should make this clear.

14:42:52 <RalphS> zakim, list agenda

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Unknown RalphS: zakim, list agenda

14:42:52 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:

Zakim IRC Bot: I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:

14:42:53 <Zakim> 5. is it cost-effective to get the TAG in the loop re namespace for XHTML 2? we already have an xmlVersioning-41 issue [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 5. is it cost-effective to get the TAG in the loop re namespace for XHTML 2? we already have an xmlVersioning-41 issue [from DanC via RalphS]

14:42:57 <Zakim> 6. Deployment of XHTML2 [from Chris via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 6. Deployment of XHTML2 [from Chris via RalphS]

14:42:59 <Zakim> 7. do things like namespaces, hr show up in CR request as outstanding dissent? [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 7. do things like namespaces, hr show up in CR request as outstanding dissent? [from DanC via RalphS]

14:43:01 <Zakim> 9. how frequently should WDs be published [from Ralph via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 9. how frequently should WDs be published [from Ralph via RalphS]

14:43:03 <Zakim> 10. marketplace of "XML-based user agents"? [from DanC via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 10. marketplace of "XML-based user agents"? [from DanC via RalphS]

14:43:04 <Zakim> 12. Group/Community [from Chris via RalphS]

Zakim IRC Bot: 12. Group/Community [from Chris via RalphS]

14:43:21 <dino> SP: This is the way that XHTML2 worked - it works now in browsers. Similar situation with XForms.

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Unknown SP: This is the way that XHTML2 worked - it works now in browsers. Similar situation with XForms.

14:43:30 <Chris> q?

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Unknown Chris: q?

14:44:08 <r12a> zakim, who's muted ?

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Unknown r12a: zakim, who's muted ?

14:44:08 <Zakim> I see Shadi, Felix, Ted, Klaus, Ishida, Cedric, Vivien, Jose, Mimasa muted

Zakim IRC Bot: I see Shadi, Felix, Ted, Klaus, Ishida, Cedric, Vivien, Jose, Mimasa muted

14:44:43 <dino> CL: Dan has already addressed TAG being in the loop after chartering.

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Unknown CL: Dan has already addressed TAG being in the loop after chartering.

14:45:02 <dino> DC: What if last call of XHTML2 next week?

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Unknown DC: What if last call of XHTML2 next week?

14:45:21 <dino> CL: It won't just say liaise with the TAG, it will list specific issues.

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Unknown CL: It won't just say liaise with the TAG, it will list specific issues.

14:45:40 <dino> DC: Did we just decide the TAG is critical path for XHTML2.

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Unknown DC: Did we just decide the TAG is critical path for XHTML2?

14:45:46 <dino> s/./?/
14:46:07 <DanC_lap> seems important to hear from sP

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Unknown DanC_lap: seems important to hear from sP

14:46:24 <steve> I did not say anything

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Unknown steve: I did not say anything

14:46:32 <Steven> nor I

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Unknown Steven: nor I

14:46:32 <r12a> that was Darth Vader maybe

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Unknown r12a: that was Darth Vader maybe

14:46:58 <dino> CL: I think that is a good idea.

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Unknown CL: I think that is a good idea.

14:47:18 <dino> SP: I don't see why. It seems like an ideal last call issue.

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Unknown SP: I don't see why. It seems like an ideal last call issue.

14:47:57 <dino> TBL: I think it should be fixed pre-chartering. Every decision the group makes should be based around either creating a new language or evolving an old one.

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Unknown TBL: I think it should be fixed pre-chartering. Every decision the group makes should be based around either creating a new language or evolving an old one.

14:48:29 <dino> TBL: The TAG may want to be involved, but we've already discussed this a lot. My comment here come from the TAG decision.

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Unknown TBL: The TAG may want to be involved, but we've already discussed this a lot. My comment here come from the TAG decision.

14:48:48 <DanC_lap> q+ to say that the presentation a week ago said XHTML 2 is "ready for last call". Meanwhile, we talk of re-chartering. Is re-chartering going to happen before XHTML 2 last call?

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Unknown DanC_lap: q+ to say that the presentation a week ago said XHTML 2 is "ready for last call". Meanwhile, we talk of re-chartering. Is re-chartering going to happen before XHTML 2 last call?

14:48:49 <dino> SP: However, what Tim has been saying is not what the world thinks.

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Unknown SP: However, what Tim has been saying is not what the world thinks.

14:49:01 <dino> IJ: I don't think Tim said that.

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Unknown IJ: I don't think Tim said that.

14:49:18 <IanJ> I would like the TAG to wrap up its finding on this topic.

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Unknown IanJ: I would like the TAG to wrap up its finding on this topic.

14:49:39 <IanJ> Would help this discussion a lot: question of "how meaning changes over time

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Unknown IanJ: Would help this discussion a lot: question of "how meaning changes over time

14:49:52 <IanJ> and how to minimize damage over changes

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Unknown IanJ: and how to minimize damage over changes

14:50:03 <IanJ> and social commitment by w3c groups to minimize damage

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Unknown IanJ: and social commitment by w3c groups to minimize damage

14:50:08 <IanJ> That's what I heard TBL say

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Unknown IanJ: That's what I heard TBL say

14:50:09 <dino> TBL: The promise you made to the community is that things won't break.

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Unknown TBL: The promise you made to the community is that things won't break.

14:50:34 <dino> CL: Are you saying that the change from HTML1 to HTML2 was incorrect - it should be a new media type?

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Unknown CL: Are you saying that the change from HTML1 to HTML2 was incorrect - it should have be a new media type?

14:50:41 <dino> s/should/should have/
14:51:11 <IanJ> TBL notes key properties he wants to achieve: (1) old docs work under terms of new spec (2) new features that are different are known to be different and thus people will deal with them properly.

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Unknown IanJ: TBL notes key properties he wants to achieve: (1) old docs work under terms of new spec (2) new features that are different are known to be different and thus people will deal with them properly.

14:51:17 <Chris> Dan, I  assume that rechartering should happen before last call, yes

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Unknown Chris: Dan, I assume that rechartering should happen before last call, yes

14:51:23 <dino> TBL: Old documents should work in a new browser. And an author can write new content and have it work in a set of browsers.

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Unknown TBL: Old documents should work in a new browser. And an author can write new content and have it work in a set of browsers.

14:51:28 <DanC_lap> q-

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Unknown DanC_lap: q-

14:51:40 <Chris> ... for one thing, it means the WG is RF and triges an exclusion opportunity

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Unknown Chris: ... for one thing, it means the WG is RF and triges an exclusion opportunity

14:52:03 <dino> SP: I think that what we have at the moment.

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Unknown SP: I think that what we have at the moment.

14:52:04 <IanJ> I think Dino got TBL's comment closely right - key bit with new feature implementation is that odd behavior will be ok since implementers will know that it may be odd.

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Unknown IanJ: I think Dino got TBL's comment closely right - key bit with new feature implementation is that odd behavior will be ok since implementers will know that it may be odd.

14:52:17 <dino> TBL: But not with separator.

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Unknown TBL: But not with separator.

14:52:19 <dino> q+

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q+

14:53:19 <IanJ> [Some discussion about whether xhtml 2.0 really works in existing browsers. Chris, Dean, Ivan indicate that that's not quite the case --- you need stuff on client side to make it work.]

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Unknown IanJ: [Some discussion about whether xhtml 2.0 really works in existing browsers. Chris, Dean, Ivan indicate that that's not quite the case --- you need stuff on client side to make it work.]

14:53:22 <Zakim> -Hakon

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Hakon

14:53:25 <dino> TBL: You should use a new name in this case.

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Unknown TBL: You should use a new name in this case.

14:53:26 <Chris> Its incorrect to sa that the whole thing works in existing browsers. xforms repeat element for example, content replacement with src, etc

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Unknown Chris: Its incorrect to sa that the whole thing works in existing browsers. xforms repeat element for example, content replacement with src, etc

14:54:05 <dino> SP: The question between HTML1 and HTML2 is very similar to the XHTML1 to XHTML2 situation.

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Unknown SP: The question between HTML1 and HTML2 is very similar to the XHTML1 to XHTML2 situation.

14:54:18 <DanC_lap> (a point I wanted to make earlier, during community/requirements: SP described HTML WG listening to proposals and inferring requirements. Perhaps it would be cost-effective to write down the inferred requirements and ask "is this the requirement behind that proposal?")

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Unknown DanC_lap: (a point I wanted to make earlier, during community/requirements: SP described HTML WG listening to proposals and inferring requirements. Perhaps it would be cost-effective to write down the inferred requirements and ask "is this the requirement behind that proposal?")

14:54:34 <Chris> DanC, yes it would

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Unknown Chris: DanC, yes it would

14:54:35 <dino> TBL: Are you saying it won't show up or that it won't do any damage?

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Unknown TBL: Are you saying it won't show up or that it won't do any damage?

14:55:00 <dino> SP: It certainly won't do any damage. But it is true that we rely on CSS.

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Unknown SP: It certainly won't do any damage. But it is true that we rely on CSS.

14:55:40 <Zakim> +Dom

Zakim IRC Bot: +Dom

14:55:45 <DanC_lap> (indeed, this is a nifty discussion; the shame is that it's happening too fast for each of the examples to get captured in a test suite, and into author-feedback-hints on the validator)

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Unknown DanC_lap: (indeed, this is a nifty discussion; the shame is that it's happening too fast for each of the examples to get captured in a test suite, and into author-feedback-hints on the validator)

14:55:52 <dino> SP: This is not different to how HTML evolved.

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Unknown SP: This is not different to how HTML evolved.

14:56:36 <dino> TBL: You're encouraging people to use stuff that won't how up in old browsers (eg. separator)

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Unknown TBL: You're encouraging people to use stuff that won't how up in old browsers (eg. separator)

14:58:23 <Zakim> -Kazuyuki

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Kazuyuki

14:58:25 <timbl_> agenda?

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Unknown timbl_: agenda?

14:58:27 <dino> DC: I'm happy if we recharter before we go to last call on XHTML2.

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Unknown DC: I'm happy if we recharter before we go to last call on XHTML2.

14:58:36 <timbl_> :)

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Unknown timbl_: :)

14:58:58 <DanC_lap> (which unapproved finding?)

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Unknown DanC_lap: (which unapproved finding?)

14:59:04 <Bert> I wonder if familiarity of old-timers with H1, H2... is enough reason to add those elements to XHTML2. People have to learn <section><h> anyway, why make them learn more?

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Unknown Bert: I wonder if familiarity of old-timers with H1, H2... is enough reason to add those elements to XHTML2. People have to learn <section><h> anyway, why make them learn more?

14:59:07 <dino> IJ: I would be nice for the TAG to document it's finding on versioning.

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Unknown IJ: I would be nice for the TAG to document it's finding on versioning.

14:59:36 <DanC_lap> we talked about what we'd *like* to be in the versioning finding; it's not actually there, yet.

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Unknown DanC_lap: we talked about what we'd *like* to be in the versioning finding; it's not actually there, yet.

15:00:01 <dino> CL: That closes the meeting.

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Unknown CL: That closes the meeting.

15:00:08 <Zakim> -Ted

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15:00:12 <Zakim> -Steven

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15:00:14 <Zakim> -Dave

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15:00:15 <dino> rrsagent, make minutes

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rrsagent, make minutes

15:00:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/01/19-xhtml-minutes.html dino

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/01/19-xhtml-minutes.html dino

15:00:16 <Zakim> -Yves

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15:00:18 <Zakim> -Ishida

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15:00:22 <Zakim> -EricM

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15:00:23 <dino> rrsagent, make logs team

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rrsagent, make logs team

15:00:26 <Zakim> -Danc

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15:00:30 <Zakim> -Judy

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15:00:30 <dino> rrsagent, make minutes

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rrsagent, make minutes

15:00:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/01/19-xhtml-minutes.html dino

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2006/01/19-xhtml-minutes.html dino

15:00:34 <Zakim> -Jose

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15:00:36 <Zakim> -Maxf

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15:00:38 <Zakim> -Dom

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15:00:40 <Zakim> -Ivan

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15:00:42 <Zakim> -Michael

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15:00:44 <Zakim> -Klaus

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15:00:46 <Zakim> -Cedric

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15:00:48 <Zakim> -Dean

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15:00:50 <Zakim> -Shadi

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15:00:52 <Zakim> -Felix

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15:00:54 <Zakim> -Bert

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15:00:58 <Zakim> -Philipp

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15:01:00 <Zakim> -Mimasa

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15:01:02 <Zakim> -Chris

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15:01:05 <Zakim> -TimBL

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15:01:08 <Zakim> -MIT531

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15:02:59 <Zakim> -Simon

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15:03:16 <s-mon> that took awhile.

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Unknown s-mon: that took awhile.

15:04:57 <Zakim> -Vivien

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15:05:12 <Zakim> -Dom

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15:05:18 <Zakim> W3C_(XHTLM2)8:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: W3C_(XHTLM2)8:00AM has ended

15:05:19 <Zakim> Attendees were MIT531, Steven, Dean, Shadi, Felix, Yves, Ian, Bert, Ivan, Ted, Klaus, Chris, Kazuyuki, Dom, Philipp, Ishida, Cedric, Vivien, Jose, Simon, Mimasa, Danc, Judy, Maxf,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were MIT531, Steven, Dean, Shadi, Felix, Yves, Ian, Bert, Ivan, Ted, Klaus, Chris, Kazuyuki, Dom, Philipp, Ishida, Cedric, Vivien, Jose, Simon, Mimasa, Danc, Judy, Maxf,

15:05:21 <Zakim> ... TimBL, Hakon, Michael, EricM, Dave

Zakim IRC Bot: ... TimBL, Hakon, Michael, EricM, Dave

15:05:33 <RalphS> zakim, bye

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Unknown RalphS: zakim, bye



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