edit

SPARQL Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 19 December 2011

Seen
Andy Seaborne, Chimezie Ogbuji, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Gregory Williams, Sandro Hawke, Steve Harris, Unknown alessandro
Scribe
Andy Seaborne
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions

None.

Topics

There are some format problems with the chatlog. Please correct them and reload this page. They are labeled on this page in a red box, like this message.

It may be helpful to

14:58:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/19-sparql-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/19-sparql-irc

14:58:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:58:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277

14:58:17 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 scheduled to start in 2 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 scheduled to start in 2 minutes

14:58:18 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:58:18 <trackbot> Date: 19 December 2011
14:59:07 <sandro> Zakim, who is on the call?

Sandro Hawke: Zakim, who is on the call?

14:59:07 <Zakim> SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 has not yet started, sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 has not yet started, sandro

14:59:08 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, AndyS, MacTed, AxelPolleres, swh, kasei, iv_an_ru, trackbot, pgearon, NickH, ya, ericP, sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, AndyS, MacTed, AxelPolleres, swh, kasei, iv_an_ru, trackbot, pgearon, NickH, ya, ericP, sandro

14:59:23 <sandro> zakim, what is the code?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, what is the code?

14:59:23 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sandro

14:59:47 <AndyS> zakim, start meeting

Andy Seaborne: zakim, start meeting

14:59:47 <Zakim> I don't understand 'start meeting', AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'start meeting', AndyS

14:59:56 <AndyS> zakim, this is SPARQL

Andy Seaborne: zakim, this is SPARQL

14:59:56 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, AndyS; that matches SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0

15:00:04 <sandro> zakim, what is the code?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, what is the code?

15:00:04 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sandro

15:00:17 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?

Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:00:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see no one

15:02:16 <AndyS> zakim, help

Andy Seaborne: zakim, help

15:02:16 <Zakim> Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.

Zakim IRC Bot: Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.

15:02:18 <Zakim> Some of the commands I know are:

Zakim IRC Bot: Some of the commands I know are:

15:02:19 <Zakim>  xxx is yyy       - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx

Zakim IRC Bot: xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx

15:02:22 <Zakim>                     if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted

Zakim IRC Bot: if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted

15:02:24 <Zakim>  xxx may be yyy   - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx

Zakim IRC Bot: xxx may be yyy - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx

15:02:27 <Zakim>  I am xxx         - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx

Zakim IRC Bot: I am xxx - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx

15:02:29 <Zakim>  xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group

Zakim IRC Bot: xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group

15:02:31 <Zakim>  xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx

Zakim IRC Bot: xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx

15:02:34 <Zakim>  who's here?      - lists the participants on the phone

Zakim IRC Bot: who's here? - lists the participants on the phone

15:02:37 <Zakim>  who's muted?     - lists the participants who are muted

Zakim IRC Bot: who's muted? - lists the participants who are muted

15:02:39 <sandro> zakim, who is here?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is here?

15:02:39 <Zakim>  mute xxx         - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)

Zakim IRC Bot: mute xxx - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)

15:02:41 <Zakim>  unmute xxx       - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#

Zakim IRC Bot: unmute xxx - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#

15:02:44 <Zakim>  is xxx here?     - reports whether a party named like xxx is present

Zakim IRC Bot: is xxx here? - reports whether a party named like xxx is present

15:02:46 <Zakim>  list conferences - reports the active conferences

Zakim IRC Bot: list conferences - reports the active conferences

15:02:48 <Zakim>  this is xxx      - associates this channel with conference xxx

Zakim IRC Bot: this is xxx - associates this channel with conference xxx

15:02:50 <Zakim>  excuse us        - disconnects from the irc channel

Zakim IRC Bot: excuse us - disconnects from the irc channel

15:02:53 <Zakim> I last learned something new on $Date: 2016/03/10 19:29:43 $

Zakim IRC Bot: I last learned something new on $Date: 2016/03/10 19:29:43 $

15:02:57 <Zakim> SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 has ended

15:02:59 <AndyS> zakim, list

Andy Seaborne: zakim, list

15:02:59 <Zakim> Attendees were

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were

15:03:01 <Zakim> SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 has now started

15:03:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see no one

15:03:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see chimezie, Zakim, RRSAgent, AndyS, MacTed, AxelPolleres, swh, kasei, iv_an_ru, trackbot, pgearon, NickH, ya, ericP, sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see chimezie, Zakim, RRSAgent, AndyS, MacTed, AxelPolleres, swh, kasei, iv_an_ru, trackbot, pgearon, NickH, ya, ericP, sandro

15:03:10 <Zakim> I see SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0, XML_SchemaW()10:00AM, WF_OGD()10:00AM, SW_HCLS(Disc)10:00AM, MM_MMI(Arch)10:00AM, Team_(PHILIPP)9:30AM, WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM active

Zakim IRC Bot: I see SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0, XML_SchemaW()10:00AM, WF_OGD()10:00AM, SW_HCLS(Disc)10:00AM, MM_MMI(Arch)10:00AM, Team_(PHILIPP)9:30AM, WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM active

15:03:13 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are INC_WEBID(WEBID)10:00AM, Team_(VALID)9:00AM, Team_SysWeb()9:30AM

Zakim IRC Bot: also scheduled at this time are INC_WEBID(WEBID)10:00AM, Team_(VALID)9:00AM, Team_SysWeb()9:30AM

15:03:18 <chimezie> ?

Chimezie Ogbuji: ?

15:03:27 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call?

15:03:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see no one

15:04:20 <AndyS> who is here?

Andy Seaborne: who is here?

15:04:22 <AndyS> AndyS

Andy Seaborne: AndyS

15:04:25 <kasei> Greg

Gregory Williams: Greg

15:04:26 <sandro> Sandro

Sandro Hawke: Sandro

15:04:28 <chimezie> Chime

Chimezie Ogbuji: Chime

15:04:44 <sandro> swh ?

Sandro Hawke: swh ?

15:04:51 <swh> I'll have to redial

Steve Harris: I'll have to redial

15:04:54 <swh> sound problems

Steve Harris: sound problems

15:04:57 <swh> I can hear you though

Steve Harris: I can hear you though

15:05:15 <swh> complicated :)

Steve Harris: complicated :)

15:06:39 <AndyS> scribe: AndyS

(Scribe set to Andy Seaborne)

15:06:45 <AndyS> scribenick: AndyS
15:07:15 <AndyS> Sandro: I think we are hear to talk about my review of the graph store protocol.

Sandro Hawke: I think we are hear to talk about my review of the graph store protocol.

15:08:02 <AndyS> ... and I have concerns with the doc being published.

... and I have concerns with the doc being published.

15:08:21 <AndyS> ... the chairs wanted consensus for TC tomorrow.

... the chairs wanted consensus for TC tomorrow.

15:08:59 <AndyS> ... and whole WG approves at TC

... and whole WG approves at TC

15:10:46 <AndyS> AndyS: I'm OK to publish 2LC as is.

Andy Seaborne: I'm OK to publish 2LC as is.

15:10:49 <sandro> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0398.html

Sandro Hawke: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0398.html

15:11:30 <AndyS> sandro: On POST to a graph, then it says the server does a merge.

Sandro Hawke: On POST to a graph, then it says the server does a merge.

15:11:37 <swh> q+

Steve Harris: q+

15:12:08 <AndyS> ... I think that is a problem because lots of things appear as RDF graphs e.g. a collection of graphs

... I think that is a problem because lots of things appear as RDF graphs e.g. a collection of graphs

15:12:24 <AndyS> ... which itself has RDF representation

... which itself has RDF representation

15:13:13 <ericP> q+ to say "saying that POSTs to a resource SHOULD append that resource" reduces the applicability to other usage patterns

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to say "saying that POSTs to a resource SHOULD append that resource" reduces the applicability to other usage patterns

15:13:15 <AndyS> chime: would you be language to cover additional things and maybe in SD

Chimezie Ogbuji: would you be language to cover additional things and maybe in SD

15:14:55 <AndyS> ericP: if no SPARQL endpoint then SPARQL update on a REST-deployment.  Certain language suggests don't use POST.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: if no SPARQL endpoint then SPARQL update on a REST-deployment. Certain language suggests don't use POST.

15:15:15 <sandro> "The group will also define protocol to update RDF graphs using ReSTful methods."

Sandro Hawke: "The group will also define protocol to update RDF graphs using ReSTful methods."

15:15:16 <AndyS> sandro: concerned applicablity of this document

Sandro Hawke: concerned applicablity of this document

15:15:23 <AndyS> q+

q+

15:15:37 <ericP> q-

Eric Prud'hommeaux: q-

15:15:46 <sandro> ack sandro

Sandro Hawke: ack sandro

15:15:49 <sandro> ack swh

Sandro Hawke: ack swh

15:16:41 <AndyS> swh: We use POST as append and care about this.  MAY is not desirable.

Steve Harris: We use POST as append and care about this. MAY is not desirable.

15:16:43 <sandro> ack AndyS

Sandro Hawke: ack AndyS

15:17:10 <ericP> AndyS: what's your disposition of 2626 and its def'n of POST?

Andy Seaborne: what's your disposition of 2626 and its def'n of POST? [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ]

15:17:41 <ericP> sandro: 2626 doesn't restrict POST. i think constraining the semantics of POST should only be applied to certain resources

Sandro Hawke: 2626 doesn't restrict POST. i think constraining the semantics of POST should only be applied to certain resources [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ]

15:18:41 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

15:18:58 <ericP> AndyS: [cites 2616] POST is used for:

Andy Seaborne: [cites 2616] POST is used for: [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ]

15:19:02 <ericP> ... creating a resource

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... creating a resource

15:19:05 <ericP> ... @@1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... @@1

15:19:11 <ericP> ... appending a database

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... appending a database

15:20:19 <AndyS> chime: if you target a service, the doc does not say what happens

Chimezie Ogbuji: if you target a service, the doc does not say what happens

15:20:36 <swh> the doc only describes graphs though

Steve Harris: the doc only describes graphs though

15:21:21 <AndyS> chime: semantics for common case ... could add lang to allow other case

Chimezie Ogbuji: semantics for common case ... could add lang to allow other case

15:21:38 <AndyS> sandro: I want to target an object on a web

Sandro Hawke: I want to target an object on a web

15:23:14 <sandro> q+ "graph"

Sandro Hawke: q+ "graph"

15:24:36 <AndyS> chime: graph container approx RDF content  -- "graph container" label is recent

Chimezie Ogbuji: graph container approx RDF content -- "graph container" label is recent

15:25:09 <AndyS> q?

q?

15:25:14 <AndyS> ack "graph"

ack "graph"

15:26:00 <AndyS> chime: IRI ids a thing that can emit graphs?  What about language to override -- if documented

Chimezie Ogbuji: IRI ids a thing that can emit graphs? What about language to override -- if documented

15:26:46 <AndyS> ericP: Concrete use case ...

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Concrete use case ...

15:27:34 <AndyS> ... there is a resource for trouble tickets - GET is the list of tickets -POST is add to list.

... there is a resource for trouble tickets - GET is the list of tickets -POST is add to list.

15:27:55 <AndyS> q+ to ask if there any POST would not allow.

q+ to ask if there any POST would not allow.

15:28:13 <AndyS> ... this is what IBM uses it for (ptr?)

... this is what IBM uses it for (ptr?)

15:28:26 <AndyS> ... do we want to use this doc to talk about that?

... do we want to use this doc to talk about that?

15:28:40 <sandro> ack AndyS

Sandro Hawke: ack AndyS

15:28:40 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask if there any POST would not allow.

Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask if there any POST would not allow.

15:28:46 <ericP> AndyS

Eric Prud'hommeaux: AndyS

15:29:04 <ericP> AndyS: in this scheme, is there anything whihc POST would disallow?

Andy Seaborne: in this scheme, is there anything whihc POST would disallow? [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ]

15:31:23 <ericP> POST /hereComesTrouble { [ a :TroubleTicket ; :poster "bob" ; :issue "borken" ] }

Eric Prud'hommeaux: POST /hereComesTrouble { [ a :TroubleTicket ; :poster "bob" ; :issue "borken" ] }

15:32:04 <ericP> -> { <> :myTickets ( <ticket1> <tickiet2> <ticket3> ) . }

Eric Prud'hommeaux: -> { <> :myTickets ( <ticket1> <tickiet2> <ticket3> ) . }

15:32:17 <AndyS> chime: appending to a graph is the mimimal op - I often go outside this for REST-ful APIs

Chimezie Ogbuji: appending to a graph is the mimimal op - I often go outside this for REST-ful APIs

15:32:49 <AndyS> q+

q+

15:32:58 <ericP> ... <ticket3Holder> { <ticket3> [ a :TroubleTicket ; :poster "bob" ; :issue "borken" ] }

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... <ticket3Holder> { <ticket3> [ a :TroubleTicket ; :poster "bob" ; :issue "borken" ] }

15:33:42 <AndyS> q-

q-

15:35:07 <swh> +1 to ericP, it's all out of band now

Steve Harris: +1 to ericP, it's all out of band now

15:36:46 <AndyS> +1 to chime: the GSHP defines XYZ - don't want it => don't claim to use it.

+1 to chime: the GSHP defines XYZ - don't want it => don't claim to use it.

15:37:24 <sandro> eric: "SHOULD" is there so clients can assume/try it

Eric Prud'hommeaux: "SHOULD" is there so clients can assume/try it [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:37:33 <sandro> chime: right

Chimezie Ogbuji: right [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:38:15 <sandro> eric: So if one usage has a SHOULD, and people assume/try it, then other users are a SHOULD NOT, which means (1) clients will not try it, and (2) there's a social pressure -- you're not being a good netizen.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: So if one usage has a SHOULD, and people assume/try it, then other users are a SHOULD NOT, which means (1) clients will not try it, and (2) there's a social pressure -- you're not being a good netizen. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:38:20 <AndyS> q+ to ask about the scope of the spec.

q+ to ask about the scope of the spec.

15:38:37 <Zakim> restarting irc bot in 1 minute to recover bridge state

Zakim IRC Bot: restarting irc bot in 1 minute to recover bridge state

15:38:45 <sandro> chime: What about SHOULD do one thing, MAY do another thing?

Chimezie Ogbuji: What about SHOULD do one thing, MAY do another thing? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:39:11 <sandro> eric: What about, "There is a subclass of these, which SHOULD have this behavior"

Eric Prud'hommeaux: What about, "There is a subclass of these, which SHOULD have this behavior" [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:39:11 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

15:39:21 <sandro> chime: that makes sense

Chimezie Ogbuji: that makes sense [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:39:32 <sandro> chime: Some description in SD.

Chimezie Ogbuji: Some description in SD. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:39:49 <swh> q+

Steve Harris: q+

15:40:06 <kasei> q+

Gregory Williams: q+

15:40:18 <sandro> eric: anchor in document, a class "Appendable", and maybe make it a MUST.      So in the SD someone an say this thing is an Appendable, or this thing creates Appendables.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: anchor in document, a class "Appendable", and maybe make it a MUST. So in the SD someone an say this thing is an Appendable, or this thing creates Appendables. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:40:29 <sandro> chime: that sounds reasonable to me.   Steve?

Chimezie Ogbuji: that sounds reasonable to me. Steve? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:40:37 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

15:40:57 <ericP> AndyS: i think it's clear that we're not an RDF version of REST

Andy Seaborne: i think it's clear that we're not an RDF version of REST [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ]

15:41:04 <ericP> ... that means POST means append

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... that means POST means append

15:41:17 <sandro> andy: I think it's clear we're NOT doing an RDF version of rest.   We are JUST doing an RDF Graphstore protocol.  If you use that, you're buying into these constraints.

Andy Seaborne: I think it's clear we're NOT doing an RDF version of rest. We are JUST doing an RDF Graphstore protocol. If you use that, you're buying into these constraints. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:41:19 <ericP> ... if you want a behavior, then it's not this protocol

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... if you want a behavior, then it's not this protocol

15:41:32 <sandro> andy: If you want a different set of features, then don't claim conformance to this spec.

Andy Seaborne: If you want a different set of features, then don't claim conformance to this spec. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:41:35 <sandro> -1 Andy

Sandro Hawke: -1 Andy

15:41:50 <sandro> (er, not Andy himself.  +1 Andy.    -1 Andy to the view)

Sandro Hawke: (er, not Andy himself. +1 Andy. -1 Andy to the view)

15:42:14 <sandro> andy: These scenarios keep coming up that are hypothetical.

Andy Seaborne: These scenarios keep coming up that are hypothetical. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:42:16 <sandro> q?

Sandro Hawke: q?

15:42:19 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

15:42:33 <sandro> andy: It seems useful document that "for a graphstore, it means append"

Andy Seaborne: It seems useful document that "for a graphstore, it means append" [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:42:41 <sandro> eric: But it comes in a big package deal.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: But it comes in a big package deal. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:43:01 <sandro> eric: Can this document be repurposed for the trouble ticket scenario, with SPARQL update, date.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Can this document be repurposed for the trouble ticket scenario, with SPARQL update, date. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:43:15 <sandro> chime: If you assume we're not targetting "RDF Graph Content" then yse.

Chimezie Ogbuji: If you assume we're not targetting "RDF Graph Content" then yse. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:44:01 <sandro> andy: Just because it has a representation as an RDF graph, doesn't mean this document applies to it.

Andy Seaborne: Just because it has a representation as an RDF graph, doesn't mean this document applies to it. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:44:14 <sandro> sandro: I so disagree

Sandro Hawke: I so disagree [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:44:28 <sandro> andy: It seems like you're trying to put other ideas.

Andy Seaborne: It seems like you're trying to put other ideas. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:45:09 <sandro> "It should be possible to manipulate RDF graphs using HTTP verbs, notably PUT, POST and DELETE. By this, clients doesn't need to know the SPARQL language to update graphs when it is not needed. "

Sandro Hawke: "It should be possible to manipulate RDF graphs using HTTP verbs, notably PUT, POST and DELETE. By this, clients doesn't need to know the SPARQL language to update graphs when it is not needed. "

15:45:44 <sandro> andy: There's a Web Application working group.   Isn't this trouble ticket system a Web Application.

Andy Seaborne: There's a Web Application working group. Isn't this trouble ticket system a Web Application. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:46:12 <sandro> (nonsense.  by that argument, the SPARQL Protocol could be done by the Web Apps WG.)

Sandro Hawke: (nonsense. by that argument, the SPARQL Protocol could be done by the Web Apps WG.)

15:47:27 <AndyS> q-

q-

15:49:40 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Jun/0000.html

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Jun/0000.html

15:52:45 <swh> q+

Steve Harris: q+

15:53:50 <sandro> q-

Sandro Hawke: q-

15:57:32 <sandro> ack swh

Sandro Hawke: ack swh

15:59:13 <sandro> sandro: So, Steve, your opinion is that this document doesn't apply to other folks doing REST+RDF.

Sandro Hawke: So, Steve, your opinion is that this document doesn't apply to other folks doing REST+RDF. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:59:40 <swh> Zakim, who's speaking?

Steve Harris: Zakim, who's speaking?

15:59:40 <Zakim> sorry, swh, I don't know what conference this is

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, swh, I don't know what conference this is

15:59:52 <sandro> zakim, this is sparql

Sandro Hawke: zakim, this is sparql

15:59:52 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, sandro; that matches SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0

15:59:52 <AndyS> zakim, this is 77277

zakim, this is 77277

15:59:53 <Zakim> AndyS, this was already SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0

Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, this was already SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0

15:59:55 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, AndyS; that matches SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0

16:00:03 <sandro> zakim, who is taking?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is taking?

16:00:03 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, sandro.

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, sandro.

16:00:53 <swh> Zakim, who's speaking?

Steve Harris: Zakim, who's speaking?

16:01:04 <Zakim> swh, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.617.324.aaaa (55%)

Zakim IRC Bot: swh, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.617.324.aaaa (55%)

16:01:51 <kasei> q+ to ask how you "self identify" as a member of this class

Gregory Williams: q+ to ask how you "self identify" as a member of this class

16:02:02 <swh> +1 to kasei's q, I don't get that

Steve Harris: +1 to kasei's q, I don't get that

16:02:16 <sandro> eric: PROPOSAL: We identify a class of resources for whom POST = graph merge, and for those resources it's a MUST.   Then we let people use some out-of-band mechanism to indicate what resources are in that class.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: PROPOSAL: We identify a class of resources for whom POST = graph merge, and for those resources it's a MUST. Then we let people use some out-of-band mechanism to indicate what resources are in that class. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:02:25 <AndyS> Is it not that lable "graph container"?

Is it not that lable "graph container"?

16:03:01 <sandro> eric: ... because the rest of this document applies to a broader set of resources.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... because the rest of this document applies to a broader set of resources. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:04:02 <sandro> sandro: No, we need to leave POST open.

Sandro Hawke: No, we need to leave POST open. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:05:07 <sandro> entend until 0:20

Sandro Hawke: entend until 0:20

16:05:09 <sandro> extend

Sandro Hawke: extend

16:05:24 <sandro> (20 after the hour)

Sandro Hawke: (20 after the hour)

16:06:27 <sandro> eric: definitons, the commonsense mapping of REST to RDF, with semantics of POST = graph merge.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: definitons, the commonsense mapping of REST to RDF, with semantics of POST = graph merge. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:07:15 <sandro> eric: how about the rest of the document talk about RDF Resoruces in general, then this section say there is a subset which are POST=append resource.  And none of that is tied to it being a sparql graphstore.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: how about the rest of the document talk about RDF Resoruces in general, then this section say there is a subset which are POST=append resource. And none of that is tied to it being a sparql graphstore. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:07:46 <sandro> chime: not all those things are paired with a graph in the dataset of a graph store

Chimezie Ogbuji: not all those things are paired with a graph in the dataset of a graph store [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:08:23 <AndyS> +1 to Chime.  Leave for LDP-WG?  RDF-WG?

+1 to Chime. Leave for LDP-WG? RDF-WG?

16:10:43 <ericP> Note that this section applies only to the application of POST to RDF graph content. other ...

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Note that this section applies only to the application of POST to RDF graph content. other ...

16:10:53 <AndyS> This doc does not apply to "data-handling process" (a phrase from RFC 2616)

This doc does not apply to "data-handling process" (a phrase from RFC 2616)

16:10:56 <sandro> chime: This behavior of POST would only apply when the target is RDF graph content [ SOmething that leaves it open for Eric's use case ]

Chimezie Ogbuji: This behavior of POST would only apply when the target is RDF graph content [ SOmething that leaves it open for Eric's use case ] [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:11:18 <sandro> eric: and strengten this to a MOST.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: and strengten this to a MOST. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:11:21 <sandro> MUST

Sandro Hawke: MUST

16:11:40 <AndyS> i.e. not applying to "Providing a block of data to a data-handling process."

i.e. not applying to "Providing a block of data to a data-handling process."

16:12:52 <sandro> sandro: so "POST MUST be understand as merge, unless this is a data handling process"

Sandro Hawke: so "POST MUST be understand as merge, unless this is a data handling process" [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:13:05 <sandro> andy: "extending a database through an append opperation"

Andy Seaborne: "extending a database through an append opperation" [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:13:38 <sandro> so,   POST MUST be understood if this is the kind of resource for which POST mean appending ...

Sandro Hawke: so, POST MUST be understood if this is the kind of resource for which POST mean appending ...

16:14:02 <sandro> andy: "graph container"

Andy Seaborne: "graph container" [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:14:09 <sandro> sandro: would need "only"

Sandro Hawke: would need "only" [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:15:59 <kasei> q?

Gregory Williams: q?

16:21:03 <Zakim> - +1.781.899.aabb

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.781.899.aabb

16:21:40 <Zakim> - +1.617.324.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.617.324.aaaa

16:22:18 <kasei> ack kasei

Gregory Williams: ack kasei

16:22:18 <Zakim> kasei, you wanted to ask how you "self identify" as a member of this class

Zakim IRC Bot: kasei, you wanted to ask how you "self identify" as a member of this class

16:25:07 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the call?

zakim, who is on the call?

16:25:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P1, [IPcaller], kasei, +1.216.368.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P1, [IPcaller], kasei, +1.216.368.aacc

16:25:27 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me

zakim, IPcaller is me

16:25:27 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

16:27:24 <AndyS> /rdf-graphs/service?graph=...    ==>    /graphstore?graph=...

/rdf-graphs/service?graph=... ==> /graphstore?graph=...

16:28:03 <swh> I have to go guys. bye

Steve Harris: I have to go guys. bye

16:28:06 <Zakim> -??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P1

16:28:54 <AndyS> Suggested:   RDF Graph Content ==> RDF Graph Container

Scribe problem: the name 'Suggested' does not match any of the 67 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ahmed Ezzat Alberto Labarga Alexandre Passant Andrea Westerinen Andrei Lopatenko Andy Seaborne Axel Polleres Bijan Parsia Birte Glimm Bryan Thompson Carlos Buil Aranda Chimezie Ogbuji Cui Tao Daniel Schutzer Dave Beckett David Charboneau David Newman Davide Palmisano Dhanapalan Kulandai Vadivel Dirk Colaert Dirk-Willem van Gulik Edward Thomas Elias Torres Enrico Franconi Eric Prud'hommeaux Frank Careccia Fred Zemke Gregory Williams Hiroyuki Sato Iker Huerga Ivan Mikhailov Jacek Kopecký Jari Vänttinen Jean-François Baget Jean-Pierre EVAIN Jeen Broekstra Jeff Pollock John Clark Jos De Roo Kendall Clark Kevin Wilkinson Lee Feigenbaum Matthew Perry Michael Smith Michele Minno Nicholas Humfrey Nico Michaelis Nophadol Jekjantuk Olivier Corby Orri Erling Paula Gearon Prateek Jain Rachel Yager Roland Schwaenzl Sandro Hawke Sergio Tessaris Simon Johnston Souripriya Das Steve Harris Sven Groppe Timo Westkämper Tommi Koivula Umberto Straccia Yoshio Fukushige Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Suggested: RDF Graph Content ==> RDF Graph Container

16:28:58 <AndyS> Suggested:   RDF Graph Content ==> Graph Container

Scribe problem: the name 'Suggested' does not match any of the 67 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ahmed Ezzat Alberto Labarga Alexandre Passant Andrea Westerinen Andrei Lopatenko Andy Seaborne Axel Polleres Bijan Parsia Birte Glimm Bryan Thompson Carlos Buil Aranda Chimezie Ogbuji Cui Tao Daniel Schutzer Dave Beckett David Charboneau David Newman Davide Palmisano Dhanapalan Kulandai Vadivel Dirk Colaert Dirk-Willem van Gulik Edward Thomas Elias Torres Enrico Franconi Eric Prud'hommeaux Frank Careccia Fred Zemke Gregory Williams Hiroyuki Sato Iker Huerga Ivan Mikhailov Jacek Kopecký Jari Vänttinen Jean-François Baget Jean-Pierre EVAIN Jeen Broekstra Jeff Pollock John Clark Jos De Roo Kendall Clark Kevin Wilkinson Lee Feigenbaum Matthew Perry Michael Smith Michele Minno Nicholas Humfrey Nico Michaelis Nophadol Jekjantuk Olivier Corby Orri Erling Paula Gearon Prateek Jain Rachel Yager Roland Schwaenzl Sandro Hawke Sergio Tessaris Simon Johnston Souripriya Das Steve Harris Sven Groppe Timo Westkämper Tommi Koivula Umberto Straccia Yoshio Fukushige Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Suggested: RDF Graph Content ==> Graph Container

16:29:32 <AndyS> (to follow recent RDF-WG terminology)

(to follow recent RDF-WG terminology)

16:30:10 <Zakim> - +1.216.368.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.216.368.aacc

16:30:12 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

16:30:15 <Zakim> -kasei

Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei

16:30:16 <Zakim> SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 has ended

16:30:18 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.617.324.aaaa, +1.781.899.aabb, kasei, +1.216.368.aacc, AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.617.324.aaaa, +1.781.899.aabb, kasei, +1.216.368.aacc, AndyS

16:31:08 <kasei> I don't think that makes nearly as much sense, sandro.

Gregory Williams: I don't think that makes nearly as much sense, sandro.

16:32:42 <sandro> *shrug*   Okay, yeah, graphstore?graph= is okay, I guess.    Certainly better than service?graph=

Sandro Hawke: *shrug* Okay, yeah, graphstore?graph= is okay, I guess. Certainly better than service?graph=

16:37:09 <AndyS> sandro - it is not a SPARQL endpoint (either kind) - that is, I think, the source of the confusion.

sandro - it is not a SPARQL endpoint (either kind) - that is, I think, the source of the confusion.

16:37:36 <AndyS> endpoint is a (XML) web services concept (WSDL)

endpoint is a (XML) web services concept (WSDL)

16:37:52 <AndyS> and also a more general, non web concept.

and also a more general, non web concept.

16:38:05 <AndyS> e.g. telecoms

e.g. telecoms

16:52:33 <AndyS> swh - kasei has noticed that all <cite> cause no link to be generated.

(No events recorded for 14 minutes)

swh - kasei has noticed that all <cite> cause no link to be generated.

16:52:55 <AndyS> Even if inside <a href=></a> then <cite> does not reach HTML.

Even if inside <a href=></a> then <cite> does not reach HTML.

16:53:53 <AndyS> Propose to de-<cite> the whole doc.

Propose to de-<cite> the whole doc.

16:54:09 <AndyS> ericP?

ericP?

16:54:37 <kasei> AndyS: any thoughts on how I should link "current version" for SPARQL docs when we don't yet have a pubdate?

Andy Seaborne: any thoughts on how I should link "current version" for SPARQL docs when we don't yet have a pubdate? [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Williams ]

16:54:44 <kasei> or is that something I leave for the pub process?

Gregory Williams: or is that something I leave for the pub process?

16:55:07 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/  -- the TR undated is "latest"

http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/ -- the TR undated is "latest"

16:55:49 <kasei> right. but some of the refs use the "current [at time of publication] version" link.

Gregory Williams: right. but some of the refs use the "current [at time of publication] version" link.

16:55:57 <kasei> (the dated-URI version)

Gregory Williams: (the dated-URI version)

16:56:50 <AndyS> Not sure of the best thing to do - needs fix up in pub process.

Not sure of the best thing to do - needs fix up in pub process.

16:57:10 <kasei> maybe I'll just leave the link distinction off for now, and sort it out in pub process.

Gregory Williams: maybe I'll just leave the link distinction off for now, and sort it out in pub process.

16:57:13 <kasei> thanks

Gregory Williams: thanks

16:59:41 <ericP> AndyS, i had to go to another call

Eric Prud'hommeaux: AndyS, i had to go to another call

17:00:37 <ericP> AndyS, the goal is to make the editors' drafts as machine-checkable as possible?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: AndyS, the goal is to make the editors' drafts as machine-checkable as possible?

17:01:01 <ericP> yeah, leave that out

Eric Prud'hommeaux: yeah, leave that out

17:01:15 <ericP> team contact will fix up the header

Eric Prud'hommeaux: team contact will fix up the header

17:02:58 <ericP> so e.g. /TR/2011/wd-sparql11-2011-12-25/ needs to reference /TR/2011/wd-sparql-update-2011-12-25/ without knowning "12-25" yet?

Eric Prud'hommeaux: so e.g. /TR/2011/wd-sparql11-2011-12-25/ needs to reference /TR/2011/wd-sparql-update-2011-12-25/ without knowning "12-25" yet?

17:07:48 <kasei> ericP: yes, that was the question.

Eric Prud'hommeaux: yes, that was the question. [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Williams ]

17:10:07 <kasei> AndyS: we've agreed to the changes in escaping and encoding in qnames, right? I assume there's need for new syntax tests?

Andy Seaborne: we've agreed to the changes in escaping and encoding in qnames, right? I assume there's need for new syntax tests? [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Williams ]

17:11:01 <ericP> for multi-doc suites, editors frequently count on xml-spec or some new JS thing which i forget the name of

Eric Prud'hommeaux: for multi-doc suites, editors frequently count on xml-spec or some new JS thing which i forget the name of

17:11:44 <AndyS> Ideally.  Not by tomorrow though.  I am uncomfortable with skipping CR for exactly this sort of issue - not doing what is needed because of mistakes.  And anyway, graph store protocol now can't skip CR IMHO.

Ideally. Not by tomorrow though. I am uncomfortable with skipping CR for exactly this sort of issue - not doing what is needed because of mistakes. And anyway, graph store protocol now can't skip CR IMHO.

17:11:47 <ericP> but if you pick a date, the team contact can grep for it and be pretty confident that he's gotton the links which need updating

Eric Prud'hommeaux: but if you pick a date, the team contact can grep for it and be pretty confident that he's gotton the links which need updating

17:11:55 <AndyS> respec.js

respec.js

17:12:01 <ericP> yeah, that

Eric Prud'hommeaux: yeah, that

17:12:22 <AndyS> neither addresses greg's issue of coord.

neither addresses greg's issue of coord.

17:12:59 <AndyS> (well, not as far as I have found)

(well, not as far as I have found)

17:27:37 <kasei> AndyS: does ARQ dev support the new qname syntax?

(No events recorded for 14 minutes)

Andy Seaborne: does ARQ dev support the new qname syntax? [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Williams ]

17:27:49 <AndyS> yes

yes

17:27:56 <kasei> I believe my impl does, but would like something else to test against if I try to crank out some tests.

Gregory Williams: I believe my impl does, but would like something else to test against if I try to crank out some tests.

17:28:04 <kasei> great

Gregory Williams: great

19:57:24 <alessandro> is it possible in regex for the pattern to be of the form "?a" ?

Scribe problem: the name 'alessandro' does not match any of the 67 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ahmed Ezzat Alberto Labarga Alexandre Passant Andrea Westerinen Andrei Lopatenko Andy Seaborne Axel Polleres Bijan Parsia Birte Glimm Bryan Thompson Carlos Buil Aranda Chimezie Ogbuji Cui Tao Daniel Schutzer Dave Beckett David Charboneau David Newman Davide Palmisano Dhanapalan Kulandai Vadivel Dirk Colaert Dirk-Willem van Gulik Edward Thomas Elias Torres Enrico Franconi Eric Prud'hommeaux Frank Careccia Fred Zemke Gregory Williams Hiroyuki Sato Iker Huerga Ivan Mikhailov Jacek Kopecký Jari Vänttinen Jean-François Baget Jean-Pierre EVAIN Jeen Broekstra Jeff Pollock John Clark Jos De Roo Kendall Clark Kevin Wilkinson Lee Feigenbaum Matthew Perry Michael Smith Michele Minno Nicholas Humfrey Nico Michaelis Nophadol Jekjantuk Olivier Corby Orri Erling Paula Gearon Prateek Jain Rachel Yager Roland Schwaenzl Sandro Hawke Sergio Tessaris Simon Johnston Souripriya Das Steve Harris Sven Groppe Timo Westkämper Tommi Koivula Umberto Straccia Yoshio Fukushige Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'alessandro' does not match any of the 67 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ahmed Ezzat Alberto Labarga Alexandre Passant Andrea Westerinen Andrei Lopatenko Andy Seaborne Axel Polleres Bijan Parsia Birte Glimm Bryan Thompson Carlos Buil Aranda Chimezie Ogbuji Cui Tao Daniel Schutzer Dave Beckett David Charboneau David Newman Davide Palmisano Dhanapalan Kulandai Vadivel Dirk Colaert Dirk-Willem van Gulik Edward Thomas Elias Torres Enrico Franconi Eric Prud'hommeaux Frank Careccia Fred Zemke Gregory Williams Hiroyuki Sato Iker Huerga Ivan Mikhailov Jacek Kopecký Jari Vänttinen Jean-François Baget Jean-Pierre EVAIN Jeen Broekstra Jeff Pollock John Clark Jos De Roo Kendall Clark Kevin Wilkinson Lee Feigenbaum Matthew Perry Michael Smith Michele Minno Nicholas Humfrey Nico Michaelis Nophadol Jekjantuk Olivier Corby Orri Erling Paula Gearon Prateek Jain Rachel Yager Roland Schwaenzl Sandro Hawke Sergio Tessaris Simon Johnston Souripriya Das Steve Harris Sven Groppe Timo Westkämper Tommi Koivula Umberto Straccia Yoshio Fukushige Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

(No events recorded for 149 minutes)

Unknown alessandro: is it possible in regex for the pattern to be of the form "?a" ?

22:05:43 <AndyS> alessandro - if you mean   regex(?var, ?pattern)   yes (it's just three args to regex -- normal args, inc ?v)  - if you mean  regex(?var, "Something|?pattern") then no -- no substituion into the pattern.

(No events recorded for 128 minutes)

alessandro - if you mean regex(?var, ?pattern) yes (it's just three args to regex -- normal args, inc ?v) - if you mean regex(?var, "Something|?pattern") then no -- no substituion into the pattern.



Formatted by CommonScribe