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14:58:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/19-sparql-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/12/19-sparql-irc ←
14:58:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:58:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277 ←
14:58:17 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 scheduled to start in 2 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 scheduled to start in 2 minutes ←
14:58:18 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:58:18 <trackbot> Date: 19 December 2011
14:59:07 <sandro> Zakim, who is on the call?
Sandro Hawke: Zakim, who is on the call? ←
14:59:07 <Zakim> SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 has not yet started, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 has not yet started, sandro ←
14:59:08 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, AndyS, MacTed, AxelPolleres, swh, kasei, iv_an_ru, trackbot, pgearon, NickH, ya, ericP, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, AndyS, MacTed, AxelPolleres, swh, kasei, iv_an_ru, trackbot, pgearon, NickH, ya, ericP, sandro ←
14:59:23 <sandro> zakim, what is the code?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, what is the code? ←
14:59:23 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sandro ←
14:59:47 <AndyS> zakim, start meeting
Andy Seaborne: zakim, start meeting ←
14:59:47 <Zakim> I don't understand 'start meeting', AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'start meeting', AndyS ←
14:59:56 <AndyS> zakim, this is SPARQL
Andy Seaborne: zakim, this is SPARQL ←
14:59:56 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, AndyS; that matches SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 ←
15:00:04 <sandro> zakim, what is the code?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, what is the code? ←
15:00:04 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sandro ←
15:00:17 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:00:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see no one ←
15:02:16 <AndyS> zakim, help
Andy Seaborne: zakim, help ←
15:02:16 <Zakim> Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.
Zakim IRC Bot: Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help. ←
15:02:18 <Zakim> Some of the commands I know are:
Zakim IRC Bot: Some of the commands I know are: ←
15:02:19 <Zakim> xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx
Zakim IRC Bot: xxx is yyy - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx ←
15:02:22 <Zakim> if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted
Zakim IRC Bot: if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted ←
15:02:24 <Zakim> xxx may be yyy - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx
Zakim IRC Bot: xxx may be yyy - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx ←
15:02:27 <Zakim> I am xxx - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx
Zakim IRC Bot: I am xxx - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx ←
15:02:29 <Zakim> xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group
Zakim IRC Bot: xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group ←
15:02:31 <Zakim> xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx
Zakim IRC Bot: xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx ←
15:02:34 <Zakim> who's here? - lists the participants on the phone
Zakim IRC Bot: who's here? - lists the participants on the phone ←
15:02:37 <Zakim> who's muted? - lists the participants who are muted
Zakim IRC Bot: who's muted? - lists the participants who are muted ←
15:02:39 <sandro> zakim, who is here?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is here? ←
15:02:39 <Zakim> mute xxx - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)
Zakim IRC Bot: mute xxx - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#) ←
15:02:41 <Zakim> unmute xxx - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#
Zakim IRC Bot: unmute xxx - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61# ←
15:02:44 <Zakim> is xxx here? - reports whether a party named like xxx is present
Zakim IRC Bot: is xxx here? - reports whether a party named like xxx is present ←
15:02:46 <Zakim> list conferences - reports the active conferences
Zakim IRC Bot: list conferences - reports the active conferences ←
15:02:48 <Zakim> this is xxx - associates this channel with conference xxx
Zakim IRC Bot: this is xxx - associates this channel with conference xxx ←
15:02:50 <Zakim> excuse us - disconnects from the irc channel
Zakim IRC Bot: excuse us - disconnects from the irc channel ←
15:02:53 <Zakim> I last learned something new on $Date: 2016/03/10 19:29:43 $
Zakim IRC Bot: I last learned something new on $Date: 2016/03/10 19:29:43 $ ←
15:02:57 <Zakim> SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 has ended ←
15:02:59 <AndyS> zakim, list
Andy Seaborne: zakim, list ←
15:02:59 <Zakim> Attendees were
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were ←
15:03:01 <Zakim> SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 has now started ←
15:03:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see no one ←
15:03:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see chimezie, Zakim, RRSAgent, AndyS, MacTed, AxelPolleres, swh, kasei, iv_an_ru, trackbot, pgearon, NickH, ya, ericP, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see chimezie, Zakim, RRSAgent, AndyS, MacTed, AxelPolleres, swh, kasei, iv_an_ru, trackbot, pgearon, NickH, ya, ericP, sandro ←
15:03:10 <Zakim> I see SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0, XML_SchemaW()10:00AM, WF_OGD()10:00AM, SW_HCLS(Disc)10:00AM, MM_MMI(Arch)10:00AM, Team_(PHILIPP)9:30AM, WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM active
Zakim IRC Bot: I see SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0, XML_SchemaW()10:00AM, WF_OGD()10:00AM, SW_HCLS(Disc)10:00AM, MM_MMI(Arch)10:00AM, Team_(PHILIPP)9:30AM, WAI_PFWG(ARIA)10:00AM active ←
15:03:13 <Zakim> also scheduled at this time are INC_WEBID(WEBID)10:00AM, Team_(VALID)9:00AM, Team_SysWeb()9:30AM
Zakim IRC Bot: also scheduled at this time are INC_WEBID(WEBID)10:00AM, Team_(VALID)9:00AM, Team_SysWeb()9:30AM ←
15:03:18 <chimezie> ?
Chimezie Ogbuji: ? ←
15:03:27 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call? ←
15:03:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see no one ←
15:04:20 <AndyS> who is here?
Andy Seaborne: who is here? ←
15:04:22 <AndyS> AndyS
Andy Seaborne: AndyS ←
15:04:25 <kasei> Greg
Gregory Williams: Greg ←
15:04:26 <sandro> Sandro
Sandro Hawke: Sandro ←
15:04:28 <chimezie> Chime
Chimezie Ogbuji: Chime ←
15:04:44 <sandro> swh ?
Sandro Hawke: swh ? ←
15:04:51 <swh> I'll have to redial
Steve Harris: I'll have to redial ←
15:04:54 <swh> sound problems
Steve Harris: sound problems ←
15:04:57 <swh> I can hear you though
Steve Harris: I can hear you though ←
15:05:15 <swh> complicated :)
Steve Harris: complicated :) ←
15:06:39 <AndyS> scribe: AndyS
(Scribe set to Andy Seaborne)
15:06:45 <AndyS> scribenick: AndyS
15:07:15 <AndyS> Sandro: I think we are hear to talk about my review of the graph store protocol.
Sandro Hawke: I think we are hear to talk about my review of the graph store protocol. ←
15:08:02 <AndyS> ... and I have concerns with the doc being published.
... and I have concerns with the doc being published. ←
15:08:21 <AndyS> ... the chairs wanted consensus for TC tomorrow.
... the chairs wanted consensus for TC tomorrow. ←
15:08:59 <AndyS> ... and whole WG approves at TC
... and whole WG approves at TC ←
15:10:46 <AndyS> AndyS: I'm OK to publish 2LC as is.
Andy Seaborne: I'm OK to publish 2LC as is. ←
15:10:49 <sandro> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0398.html
Sandro Hawke: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2011OctDec/0398.html ←
15:11:30 <AndyS> sandro: On POST to a graph, then it says the server does a merge.
Sandro Hawke: On POST to a graph, then it says the server does a merge. ←
15:11:37 <swh> q+
Steve Harris: q+ ←
15:12:08 <AndyS> ... I think that is a problem because lots of things appear as RDF graphs e.g. a collection of graphs
... I think that is a problem because lots of things appear as RDF graphs e.g. a collection of graphs ←
15:12:24 <AndyS> ... which itself has RDF representation
... which itself has RDF representation ←
15:13:13 <ericP> q+ to say "saying that POSTs to a resource SHOULD append that resource" reduces the applicability to other usage patterns
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to say "saying that POSTs to a resource SHOULD append that resource" reduces the applicability to other usage patterns ←
15:13:15 <AndyS> chime: would you be language to cover additional things and maybe in SD
Chimezie Ogbuji: would you be language to cover additional things and maybe in SD ←
15:14:55 <AndyS> ericP: if no SPARQL endpoint then SPARQL update on a REST-deployment. Certain language suggests don't use POST.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: if no SPARQL endpoint then SPARQL update on a REST-deployment. Certain language suggests don't use POST. ←
15:15:15 <sandro> "The group will also define protocol to update RDF graphs using ReSTful methods."
Sandro Hawke: "The group will also define protocol to update RDF graphs using ReSTful methods." ←
15:15:16 <AndyS> sandro: concerned applicablity of this document
Sandro Hawke: concerned applicablity of this document ←
15:15:23 <AndyS> q+
q+ ←
15:15:37 <ericP> q-
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q- ←
15:15:46 <sandro> ack sandro
Sandro Hawke: ack sandro ←
15:15:49 <sandro> ack swh
Sandro Hawke: ack swh ←
15:16:41 <AndyS> swh: We use POST as append and care about this. MAY is not desirable.
Steve Harris: We use POST as append and care about this. MAY is not desirable. ←
15:16:43 <sandro> ack AndyS
Sandro Hawke: ack AndyS ←
15:17:10 <ericP> AndyS: what's your disposition of 2626 and its def'n of POST?
Andy Seaborne: what's your disposition of 2626 and its def'n of POST? [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ] ←
15:17:41 <ericP> sandro: 2626 doesn't restrict POST. i think constraining the semantics of POST should only be applied to certain resources
Sandro Hawke: 2626 doesn't restrict POST. i think constraining the semantics of POST should only be applied to certain resources [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ] ←
15:18:41 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
15:18:58 <ericP> AndyS: [cites 2616] POST is used for:
Andy Seaborne: [cites 2616] POST is used for: [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ] ←
15:19:02 <ericP> ... creating a resource
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... creating a resource ←
15:19:05 <ericP> ... @@1
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... @@1 ←
15:19:11 <ericP> ... appending a database
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... appending a database ←
15:20:19 <AndyS> chime: if you target a service, the doc does not say what happens
Chimezie Ogbuji: if you target a service, the doc does not say what happens ←
15:20:36 <swh> the doc only describes graphs though
Steve Harris: the doc only describes graphs though ←
15:21:21 <AndyS> chime: semantics for common case ... could add lang to allow other case
Chimezie Ogbuji: semantics for common case ... could add lang to allow other case ←
15:21:38 <AndyS> sandro: I want to target an object on a web
Sandro Hawke: I want to target an object on a web ←
15:23:14 <sandro> q+ "graph"
Sandro Hawke: q+ "graph" ←
15:24:36 <AndyS> chime: graph container approx RDF content -- "graph container" label is recent
Chimezie Ogbuji: graph container approx RDF content -- "graph container" label is recent ←
15:25:09 <AndyS> q?
q? ←
15:25:14 <AndyS> ack "graph"
ack "graph" ←
15:26:00 <AndyS> chime: IRI ids a thing that can emit graphs? What about language to override -- if documented
Chimezie Ogbuji: IRI ids a thing that can emit graphs? What about language to override -- if documented ←
15:26:46 <AndyS> ericP: Concrete use case ...
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Concrete use case ... ←
15:27:34 <AndyS> ... there is a resource for trouble tickets - GET is the list of tickets -POST is add to list.
... there is a resource for trouble tickets - GET is the list of tickets -POST is add to list. ←
15:27:55 <AndyS> q+ to ask if there any POST would not allow.
q+ to ask if there any POST would not allow. ←
15:28:13 <AndyS> ... this is what IBM uses it for (ptr?)
... this is what IBM uses it for (ptr?) ←
15:28:26 <AndyS> ... do we want to use this doc to talk about that?
... do we want to use this doc to talk about that? ←
15:28:40 <sandro> ack AndyS
Sandro Hawke: ack AndyS ←
15:28:40 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask if there any POST would not allow.
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask if there any POST would not allow. ←
15:28:46 <ericP> AndyS
Eric Prud'hommeaux: AndyS ←
15:29:04 <ericP> AndyS: in this scheme, is there anything whihc POST would disallow?
Andy Seaborne: in this scheme, is there anything whihc POST would disallow? [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ] ←
15:31:23 <ericP> POST /hereComesTrouble { [ a :TroubleTicket ; :poster "bob" ; :issue "borken" ] }
Eric Prud'hommeaux: POST /hereComesTrouble { [ a :TroubleTicket ; :poster "bob" ; :issue "borken" ] } ←
15:32:04 <ericP> -> { <> :myTickets ( <ticket1> <tickiet2> <ticket3> ) . }
Eric Prud'hommeaux: -> { <> :myTickets ( <ticket1> <tickiet2> <ticket3> ) . } ←
15:32:17 <AndyS> chime: appending to a graph is the mimimal op - I often go outside this for REST-ful APIs
Chimezie Ogbuji: appending to a graph is the mimimal op - I often go outside this for REST-ful APIs ←
15:32:49 <AndyS> q+
q+ ←
15:32:58 <ericP> ... <ticket3Holder> { <ticket3> [ a :TroubleTicket ; :poster "bob" ; :issue "borken" ] }
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... <ticket3Holder> { <ticket3> [ a :TroubleTicket ; :poster "bob" ; :issue "borken" ] } ←
15:33:42 <AndyS> q-
q- ←
15:35:07 <swh> +1 to ericP, it's all out of band now
Steve Harris: +1 to ericP, it's all out of band now ←
15:36:46 <AndyS> +1 to chime: the GSHP defines XYZ - don't want it => don't claim to use it.
+1 to chime: the GSHP defines XYZ - don't want it => don't claim to use it. ←
15:37:24 <sandro> eric: "SHOULD" is there so clients can assume/try it
Eric Prud'hommeaux: "SHOULD" is there so clients can assume/try it [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:37:33 <sandro> chime: right
Chimezie Ogbuji: right [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:38:15 <sandro> eric: So if one usage has a SHOULD, and people assume/try it, then other users are a SHOULD NOT, which means (1) clients will not try it, and (2) there's a social pressure -- you're not being a good netizen.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: So if one usage has a SHOULD, and people assume/try it, then other users are a SHOULD NOT, which means (1) clients will not try it, and (2) there's a social pressure -- you're not being a good netizen. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:38:20 <AndyS> q+ to ask about the scope of the spec.
q+ to ask about the scope of the spec. ←
15:38:37 <Zakim> restarting irc bot in 1 minute to recover bridge state
Zakim IRC Bot: restarting irc bot in 1 minute to recover bridge state ←
15:38:45 <sandro> chime: What about SHOULD do one thing, MAY do another thing?
Chimezie Ogbuji: What about SHOULD do one thing, MAY do another thing? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:39:11 <sandro> eric: What about, "There is a subclass of these, which SHOULD have this behavior"
Eric Prud'hommeaux: What about, "There is a subclass of these, which SHOULD have this behavior" [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:39:11 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
15:39:21 <sandro> chime: that makes sense
Chimezie Ogbuji: that makes sense [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:39:32 <sandro> chime: Some description in SD.
Chimezie Ogbuji: Some description in SD. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:39:49 <swh> q+
Steve Harris: q+ ←
15:40:06 <kasei> q+
Gregory Williams: q+ ←
15:40:18 <sandro> eric: anchor in document, a class "Appendable", and maybe make it a MUST. So in the SD someone an say this thing is an Appendable, or this thing creates Appendables.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: anchor in document, a class "Appendable", and maybe make it a MUST. So in the SD someone an say this thing is an Appendable, or this thing creates Appendables. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:40:29 <sandro> chime: that sounds reasonable to me. Steve?
Chimezie Ogbuji: that sounds reasonable to me. Steve? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:40:37 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
15:40:57 <ericP> AndyS: i think it's clear that we're not an RDF version of REST
Andy Seaborne: i think it's clear that we're not an RDF version of REST [ Scribe Assist by Eric Prud'hommeaux ] ←
15:41:04 <ericP> ... that means POST means append
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... that means POST means append ←
15:41:17 <sandro> andy: I think it's clear we're NOT doing an RDF version of rest. We are JUST doing an RDF Graphstore protocol. If you use that, you're buying into these constraints.
Andy Seaborne: I think it's clear we're NOT doing an RDF version of rest. We are JUST doing an RDF Graphstore protocol. If you use that, you're buying into these constraints. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:41:19 <ericP> ... if you want a behavior, then it's not this protocol
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... if you want a behavior, then it's not this protocol ←
15:41:32 <sandro> andy: If you want a different set of features, then don't claim conformance to this spec.
Andy Seaborne: If you want a different set of features, then don't claim conformance to this spec. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:41:35 <sandro> -1 Andy
Sandro Hawke: -1 Andy ←
15:41:50 <sandro> (er, not Andy himself. +1 Andy. -1 Andy to the view)
Sandro Hawke: (er, not Andy himself. +1 Andy. -1 Andy to the view) ←
15:42:14 <sandro> andy: These scenarios keep coming up that are hypothetical.
Andy Seaborne: These scenarios keep coming up that are hypothetical. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:42:16 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
15:42:19 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
15:42:33 <sandro> andy: It seems useful document that "for a graphstore, it means append"
Andy Seaborne: It seems useful document that "for a graphstore, it means append" [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:42:41 <sandro> eric: But it comes in a big package deal.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: But it comes in a big package deal. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:43:01 <sandro> eric: Can this document be repurposed for the trouble ticket scenario, with SPARQL update, date.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Can this document be repurposed for the trouble ticket scenario, with SPARQL update, date. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:43:15 <sandro> chime: If you assume we're not targetting "RDF Graph Content" then yse.
Chimezie Ogbuji: If you assume we're not targetting "RDF Graph Content" then yse. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:44:01 <sandro> andy: Just because it has a representation as an RDF graph, doesn't mean this document applies to it.
Andy Seaborne: Just because it has a representation as an RDF graph, doesn't mean this document applies to it. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:44:14 <sandro> sandro: I so disagree
Sandro Hawke: I so disagree [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:44:28 <sandro> andy: It seems like you're trying to put other ideas.
Andy Seaborne: It seems like you're trying to put other ideas. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:45:09 <sandro> "It should be possible to manipulate RDF graphs using HTTP verbs, notably PUT, POST and DELETE. By this, clients doesn't need to know the SPARQL language to update graphs when it is not needed. "
Sandro Hawke: "It should be possible to manipulate RDF graphs using HTTP verbs, notably PUT, POST and DELETE. By this, clients doesn't need to know the SPARQL language to update graphs when it is not needed. " ←
15:45:44 <sandro> andy: There's a Web Application working group. Isn't this trouble ticket system a Web Application.
Andy Seaborne: There's a Web Application working group. Isn't this trouble ticket system a Web Application. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:46:12 <sandro> (nonsense. by that argument, the SPARQL Protocol could be done by the Web Apps WG.)
Sandro Hawke: (nonsense. by that argument, the SPARQL Protocol could be done by the Web Apps WG.) ←
15:47:27 <AndyS> q-
q- ←
15:49:40 <AndyS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Jun/0000.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2011Jun/0000.html ←
15:52:45 <swh> q+
Steve Harris: q+ ←
15:53:50 <sandro> q-
Sandro Hawke: q- ←
15:57:32 <sandro> ack swh
Sandro Hawke: ack swh ←
15:59:13 <sandro> sandro: So, Steve, your opinion is that this document doesn't apply to other folks doing REST+RDF.
Sandro Hawke: So, Steve, your opinion is that this document doesn't apply to other folks doing REST+RDF. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:59:40 <swh> Zakim, who's speaking?
Steve Harris: Zakim, who's speaking? ←
15:59:40 <Zakim> sorry, swh, I don't know what conference this is
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, swh, I don't know what conference this is ←
15:59:52 <sandro> zakim, this is sparql
Sandro Hawke: zakim, this is sparql ←
15:59:52 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, sandro; that matches SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 ←
15:59:52 <AndyS> zakim, this is 77277
zakim, this is 77277 ←
15:59:53 <Zakim> AndyS, this was already SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, this was already SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 ←
15:59:55 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, AndyS; that matches SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 ←
16:00:03 <sandro> zakim, who is taking?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is taking? ←
16:00:03 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, sandro.
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, sandro. ←
16:00:53 <swh> Zakim, who's speaking?
Steve Harris: Zakim, who's speaking? ←
16:01:04 <Zakim> swh, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.617.324.aaaa (55%)
Zakim IRC Bot: swh, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.617.324.aaaa (55%) ←
16:01:51 <kasei> q+ to ask how you "self identify" as a member of this class
Gregory Williams: q+ to ask how you "self identify" as a member of this class ←
16:02:02 <swh> +1 to kasei's q, I don't get that
Steve Harris: +1 to kasei's q, I don't get that ←
16:02:16 <sandro> eric: PROPOSAL: We identify a class of resources for whom POST = graph merge, and for those resources it's a MUST. Then we let people use some out-of-band mechanism to indicate what resources are in that class.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: PROPOSAL: We identify a class of resources for whom POST = graph merge, and for those resources it's a MUST. Then we let people use some out-of-band mechanism to indicate what resources are in that class. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:02:25 <AndyS> Is it not that lable "graph container"?
Is it not that lable "graph container"? ←
16:03:01 <sandro> eric: ... because the rest of this document applies to a broader set of resources.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: ... because the rest of this document applies to a broader set of resources. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:04:02 <sandro> sandro: No, we need to leave POST open.
Sandro Hawke: No, we need to leave POST open. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:05:07 <sandro> entend until 0:20
Sandro Hawke: entend until 0:20 ←
16:05:09 <sandro> extend
Sandro Hawke: extend ←
16:05:24 <sandro> (20 after the hour)
Sandro Hawke: (20 after the hour) ←
16:06:27 <sandro> eric: definitons, the commonsense mapping of REST to RDF, with semantics of POST = graph merge.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: definitons, the commonsense mapping of REST to RDF, with semantics of POST = graph merge. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:07:15 <sandro> eric: how about the rest of the document talk about RDF Resoruces in general, then this section say there is a subset which are POST=append resource. And none of that is tied to it being a sparql graphstore.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: how about the rest of the document talk about RDF Resoruces in general, then this section say there is a subset which are POST=append resource. And none of that is tied to it being a sparql graphstore. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:07:46 <sandro> chime: not all those things are paired with a graph in the dataset of a graph store
Chimezie Ogbuji: not all those things are paired with a graph in the dataset of a graph store [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:08:23 <AndyS> +1 to Chime. Leave for LDP-WG? RDF-WG?
+1 to Chime. Leave for LDP-WG? RDF-WG? ←
16:10:43 <ericP> Note that this section applies only to the application of POST to RDF graph content. other ...
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Note that this section applies only to the application of POST to RDF graph content. other ... ←
16:10:53 <AndyS> This doc does not apply to "data-handling process" (a phrase from RFC 2616)
This doc does not apply to "data-handling process" (a phrase from RFC 2616) ←
16:10:56 <sandro> chime: This behavior of POST would only apply when the target is RDF graph content [ SOmething that leaves it open for Eric's use case ]
Chimezie Ogbuji: This behavior of POST would only apply when the target is RDF graph content [ SOmething that leaves it open for Eric's use case ] [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:11:18 <sandro> eric: and strengten this to a MOST.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: and strengten this to a MOST. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:11:21 <sandro> MUST
Sandro Hawke: MUST ←
16:11:40 <AndyS> i.e. not applying to "Providing a block of data to a data-handling process."
i.e. not applying to "Providing a block of data to a data-handling process." ←
16:12:52 <sandro> sandro: so "POST MUST be understand as merge, unless this is a data handling process"
Sandro Hawke: so "POST MUST be understand as merge, unless this is a data handling process" [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:13:05 <sandro> andy: "extending a database through an append opperation"
Andy Seaborne: "extending a database through an append opperation" [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:13:38 <sandro> so, POST MUST be understood if this is the kind of resource for which POST mean appending ...
Sandro Hawke: so, POST MUST be understood if this is the kind of resource for which POST mean appending ... ←
16:14:02 <sandro> andy: "graph container"
Andy Seaborne: "graph container" [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:14:09 <sandro> sandro: would need "only"
Sandro Hawke: would need "only" [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:15:59 <kasei> q?
Gregory Williams: q? ←
16:21:03 <Zakim> - +1.781.899.aabb
(No events recorded for 5 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.781.899.aabb ←
16:21:40 <Zakim> - +1.617.324.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.617.324.aaaa ←
16:22:18 <kasei> ack kasei
Gregory Williams: ack kasei ←
16:22:18 <Zakim> kasei, you wanted to ask how you "self identify" as a member of this class
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei, you wanted to ask how you "self identify" as a member of this class ←
16:25:07 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the call?
zakim, who is on the call? ←
16:25:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P1, [IPcaller], kasei, +1.216.368.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P1, [IPcaller], kasei, +1.216.368.aacc ←
16:25:27 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me
zakim, IPcaller is me ←
16:25:27 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
16:27:24 <AndyS> /rdf-graphs/service?graph=... ==> /graphstore?graph=...
/rdf-graphs/service?graph=... ==> /graphstore?graph=... ←
16:28:03 <swh> I have to go guys. bye
Steve Harris: I have to go guys. bye ←
16:28:06 <Zakim> -??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P1 ←
16:28:54 <AndyS> Suggested: RDF Graph Content ==> RDF Graph Container
Scribe problem: the name 'Suggested' does not match any of the 67 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ahmed Ezzat Alberto Labarga Alexandre Passant Andrea Westerinen Andrei Lopatenko Andy Seaborne Axel Polleres Bijan Parsia Birte Glimm Bryan Thompson Carlos Buil Aranda Chimezie Ogbuji Cui Tao Daniel Schutzer Dave Beckett David Charboneau David Newman Davide Palmisano Dhanapalan Kulandai Vadivel Dirk Colaert Dirk-Willem van Gulik Edward Thomas Elias Torres Enrico Franconi Eric Prud'hommeaux Frank Careccia Fred Zemke Gregory Williams Hiroyuki Sato Iker Huerga Ivan Mikhailov Jacek Kopecký Jari Vänttinen Jean-François Baget Jean-Pierre EVAIN Jeen Broekstra Jeff Pollock John Clark Jos De Roo Kendall Clark Kevin Wilkinson Lee Feigenbaum Matthew Perry Michael Smith Michele Minno Nicholas Humfrey Nico Michaelis Nophadol Jekjantuk Olivier Corby Orri Erling Paula Gearon Prateek Jain Rachel Yager Roland Schwaenzl Sandro Hawke Sergio Tessaris Simon Johnston Souripriya Das Steve Harris Sven Groppe Timo Westkämper Tommi Koivula Umberto Straccia Yoshio Fukushige Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Suggested: RDF Graph Content ==> RDF Graph Container ←
16:28:58 <AndyS> Suggested: RDF Graph Content ==> Graph Container
Scribe problem: the name 'Suggested' does not match any of the 67 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ahmed Ezzat Alberto Labarga Alexandre Passant Andrea Westerinen Andrei Lopatenko Andy Seaborne Axel Polleres Bijan Parsia Birte Glimm Bryan Thompson Carlos Buil Aranda Chimezie Ogbuji Cui Tao Daniel Schutzer Dave Beckett David Charboneau David Newman Davide Palmisano Dhanapalan Kulandai Vadivel Dirk Colaert Dirk-Willem van Gulik Edward Thomas Elias Torres Enrico Franconi Eric Prud'hommeaux Frank Careccia Fred Zemke Gregory Williams Hiroyuki Sato Iker Huerga Ivan Mikhailov Jacek Kopecký Jari Vänttinen Jean-François Baget Jean-Pierre EVAIN Jeen Broekstra Jeff Pollock John Clark Jos De Roo Kendall Clark Kevin Wilkinson Lee Feigenbaum Matthew Perry Michael Smith Michele Minno Nicholas Humfrey Nico Michaelis Nophadol Jekjantuk Olivier Corby Orri Erling Paula Gearon Prateek Jain Rachel Yager Roland Schwaenzl Sandro Hawke Sergio Tessaris Simon Johnston Souripriya Das Steve Harris Sven Groppe Timo Westkämper Tommi Koivula Umberto Straccia Yoshio Fukushige Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Suggested: RDF Graph Content ==> Graph Container ←
16:29:32 <AndyS> (to follow recent RDF-WG terminology)
(to follow recent RDF-WG terminology) ←
16:30:10 <Zakim> - +1.216.368.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.216.368.aacc ←
16:30:12 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
16:30:15 <Zakim> -kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei ←
16:30:16 <Zakim> SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SPARQL(GraphStore HTTP)10:0 has ended ←
16:30:18 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.617.324.aaaa, +1.781.899.aabb, kasei, +1.216.368.aacc, AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.617.324.aaaa, +1.781.899.aabb, kasei, +1.216.368.aacc, AndyS ←
16:31:08 <kasei> I don't think that makes nearly as much sense, sandro.
Gregory Williams: I don't think that makes nearly as much sense, sandro. ←
16:32:42 <sandro> *shrug* Okay, yeah, graphstore?graph= is okay, I guess. Certainly better than service?graph=
Sandro Hawke: *shrug* Okay, yeah, graphstore?graph= is okay, I guess. Certainly better than service?graph= ←
16:37:09 <AndyS> sandro - it is not a SPARQL endpoint (either kind) - that is, I think, the source of the confusion.
sandro - it is not a SPARQL endpoint (either kind) - that is, I think, the source of the confusion. ←
16:37:36 <AndyS> endpoint is a (XML) web services concept (WSDL)
endpoint is a (XML) web services concept (WSDL) ←
16:37:52 <AndyS> and also a more general, non web concept.
and also a more general, non web concept. ←
16:38:05 <AndyS> e.g. telecoms
e.g. telecoms ←
16:52:33 <AndyS> swh - kasei has noticed that all <cite> cause no link to be generated.
(No events recorded for 14 minutes)
swh - kasei has noticed that all <cite> cause no link to be generated. ←
16:52:55 <AndyS> Even if inside <a href=></a> then <cite> does not reach HTML.
Even if inside <a href=></a> then <cite> does not reach HTML. ←
16:53:53 <AndyS> Propose to de-<cite> the whole doc.
Propose to de-<cite> the whole doc. ←
16:54:09 <AndyS> ericP?
ericP? ←
16:54:37 <kasei> AndyS: any thoughts on how I should link "current version" for SPARQL docs when we don't yet have a pubdate?
Andy Seaborne: any thoughts on how I should link "current version" for SPARQL docs when we don't yet have a pubdate? [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Williams ] ←
16:54:44 <kasei> or is that something I leave for the pub process?
Gregory Williams: or is that something I leave for the pub process? ←
16:55:07 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/ -- the TR undated is "latest"
http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/ -- the TR undated is "latest" ←
16:55:49 <kasei> right. but some of the refs use the "current [at time of publication] version" link.
Gregory Williams: right. but some of the refs use the "current [at time of publication] version" link. ←
16:55:57 <kasei> (the dated-URI version)
Gregory Williams: (the dated-URI version) ←
16:56:50 <AndyS> Not sure of the best thing to do - needs fix up in pub process.
Not sure of the best thing to do - needs fix up in pub process. ←
16:57:10 <kasei> maybe I'll just leave the link distinction off for now, and sort it out in pub process.
Gregory Williams: maybe I'll just leave the link distinction off for now, and sort it out in pub process. ←
16:57:13 <kasei> thanks
Gregory Williams: thanks ←
16:59:41 <ericP> AndyS, i had to go to another call
Eric Prud'hommeaux: AndyS, i had to go to another call ←
17:00:37 <ericP> AndyS, the goal is to make the editors' drafts as machine-checkable as possible?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: AndyS, the goal is to make the editors' drafts as machine-checkable as possible? ←
17:01:01 <ericP> yeah, leave that out
Eric Prud'hommeaux: yeah, leave that out ←
17:01:15 <ericP> team contact will fix up the header
Eric Prud'hommeaux: team contact will fix up the header ←
17:02:58 <ericP> so e.g. /TR/2011/wd-sparql11-2011-12-25/ needs to reference /TR/2011/wd-sparql-update-2011-12-25/ without knowning "12-25" yet?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: so e.g. /TR/2011/wd-sparql11-2011-12-25/ needs to reference /TR/2011/wd-sparql-update-2011-12-25/ without knowning "12-25" yet? ←
17:07:48 <kasei> ericP: yes, that was the question.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: yes, that was the question. [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Williams ] ←
17:10:07 <kasei> AndyS: we've agreed to the changes in escaping and encoding in qnames, right? I assume there's need for new syntax tests?
Andy Seaborne: we've agreed to the changes in escaping and encoding in qnames, right? I assume there's need for new syntax tests? [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Williams ] ←
17:11:01 <ericP> for multi-doc suites, editors frequently count on xml-spec or some new JS thing which i forget the name of
Eric Prud'hommeaux: for multi-doc suites, editors frequently count on xml-spec or some new JS thing which i forget the name of ←
17:11:44 <AndyS> Ideally. Not by tomorrow though. I am uncomfortable with skipping CR for exactly this sort of issue - not doing what is needed because of mistakes. And anyway, graph store protocol now can't skip CR IMHO.
Ideally. Not by tomorrow though. I am uncomfortable with skipping CR for exactly this sort of issue - not doing what is needed because of mistakes. And anyway, graph store protocol now can't skip CR IMHO. ←
17:11:47 <ericP> but if you pick a date, the team contact can grep for it and be pretty confident that he's gotton the links which need updating
Eric Prud'hommeaux: but if you pick a date, the team contact can grep for it and be pretty confident that he's gotton the links which need updating ←
17:11:55 <AndyS> respec.js
respec.js ←
17:12:01 <ericP> yeah, that
Eric Prud'hommeaux: yeah, that ←
17:12:22 <AndyS> neither addresses greg's issue of coord.
neither addresses greg's issue of coord. ←
17:12:59 <AndyS> (well, not as far as I have found)
(well, not as far as I have found) ←
17:27:37 <kasei> AndyS: does ARQ dev support the new qname syntax?
(No events recorded for 14 minutes)
Andy Seaborne: does ARQ dev support the new qname syntax? [ Scribe Assist by Gregory Williams ] ←
17:27:49 <AndyS> yes
yes ←
17:27:56 <kasei> I believe my impl does, but would like something else to test against if I try to crank out some tests.
Gregory Williams: I believe my impl does, but would like something else to test against if I try to crank out some tests. ←
17:28:04 <kasei> great
Gregory Williams: great ←
19:57:24 <alessandro> is it possible in regex for the pattern to be of the form "?a" ?
Scribe problem: the name 'alessandro' does not match any of the 67 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ahmed Ezzat Alberto Labarga Alexandre Passant Andrea Westerinen Andrei Lopatenko Andy Seaborne Axel Polleres Bijan Parsia Birte Glimm Bryan Thompson Carlos Buil Aranda Chimezie Ogbuji Cui Tao Daniel Schutzer Dave Beckett David Charboneau David Newman Davide Palmisano Dhanapalan Kulandai Vadivel Dirk Colaert Dirk-Willem van Gulik Edward Thomas Elias Torres Enrico Franconi Eric Prud'hommeaux Frank Careccia Fred Zemke Gregory Williams Hiroyuki Sato Iker Huerga Ivan Mikhailov Jacek Kopecký Jari Vänttinen Jean-François Baget Jean-Pierre EVAIN Jeen Broekstra Jeff Pollock John Clark Jos De Roo Kendall Clark Kevin Wilkinson Lee Feigenbaum Matthew Perry Michael Smith Michele Minno Nicholas Humfrey Nico Michaelis Nophadol Jekjantuk Olivier Corby Orri Erling Paula Gearon Prateek Jain Rachel Yager Roland Schwaenzl Sandro Hawke Sergio Tessaris Simon Johnston Souripriya Das Steve Harris Sven Groppe Timo Westkämper Tommi Koivula Umberto Straccia Yoshio Fukushige Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'alessandro' does not match any of the 67 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ahmed Ezzat Alberto Labarga Alexandre Passant Andrea Westerinen Andrei Lopatenko Andy Seaborne Axel Polleres Bijan Parsia Birte Glimm Bryan Thompson Carlos Buil Aranda Chimezie Ogbuji Cui Tao Daniel Schutzer Dave Beckett David Charboneau David Newman Davide Palmisano Dhanapalan Kulandai Vadivel Dirk Colaert Dirk-Willem van Gulik Edward Thomas Elias Torres Enrico Franconi Eric Prud'hommeaux Frank Careccia Fred Zemke Gregory Williams Hiroyuki Sato Iker Huerga Ivan Mikhailov Jacek Kopecký Jari Vänttinen Jean-François Baget Jean-Pierre EVAIN Jeen Broekstra Jeff Pollock John Clark Jos De Roo Kendall Clark Kevin Wilkinson Lee Feigenbaum Matthew Perry Michael Smith Michele Minno Nicholas Humfrey Nico Michaelis Nophadol Jekjantuk Olivier Corby Orri Erling Paula Gearon Prateek Jain Rachel Yager Roland Schwaenzl Sandro Hawke Sergio Tessaris Simon Johnston Souripriya Das Steve Harris Sven Groppe Timo Westkämper Tommi Koivula Umberto Straccia Yoshio Fukushige Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
(No events recorded for 149 minutes)
Unknown alessandro: is it possible in regex for the pattern to be of the form "?a" ? ←
22:05:43 <AndyS> alessandro - if you mean regex(?var, ?pattern) yes (it's just three args to regex -- normal args, inc ?v) - if you mean regex(?var, "Something|?pattern") then no -- no substituion into the pattern.
(No events recorded for 128 minutes)
alessandro - if you mean regex(?var, ?pattern) yes (it's just three args to regex -- normal args, inc ?v) - if you mean regex(?var, "Something|?pattern") then no -- no substituion into the pattern. ←
Formatted by CommonScribe