14:52:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/03/02-sparql-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2010/03/02-sparql-irc ←
14:52:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:52:27 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277 ←
14:52:27 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes ←
14:52:28 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
14:52:28 <trackbot> Date: 02 March 2010
14:52:36 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
14:52:39 <LeeF> scribenick: sandro
(Scribe set to Sandro Hawke)
14:52:49 <LeeF> Regrets: AxelP, SteveH, Souri
14:52:55 <LeeF> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Agenda-2010-03-02
14:57:00 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this will be SPARQL ←
14:57:00 <Zakim> ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes ←
14:57:59 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started ←
14:58:05 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:58:16 <AndyS> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
14:58:16 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
14:58:23 <Zakim> +MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: +MattPerry ←
14:58:31 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
14:58:31 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
14:58:32 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
14:59:01 <Zakim> + +1.310.729.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.310.729.aaaa ←
14:59:08 <kasei> Zakim, aaaa is me
Gregory Williams: Zakim, aaaa is me ←
14:59:08 <Zakim> +kasei; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +kasei; got it ←
14:59:13 <Zakim> +pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon ←
15:00:07 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
15:00:50 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
15:00:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, MattPerry, Ivan, kasei, pgearon, LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AndyS, MattPerry, Ivan, kasei, pgearon, LeeF ←
15:01:24 <kasei> Zakim, who is talking?
Gregory Williams: Zakim, who is talking? ←
15:01:32 <ivan> i do not hear anybody
Ivan Herman: i do not hear anybody ←
15:01:32 <kasei> very loud typing...
Gregory Williams: very loud typing... ←
15:01:35 <Zakim> kasei, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ivan (19%)
Zakim IRC Bot: kasei, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ivan (19%) ←
15:01:37 <Zakim> +dcharbon2
Zakim IRC Bot: +dcharbon2 ←
15:01:40 <ivan> zakim, mute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me ←
15:01:40 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
15:01:43 <LeeF> ivan, can you hear me?
Lee Feigenbaum: ivan, can you hear me? ←
15:01:46 <ivan> no
Ivan Herman: no ←
15:01:50 <ivan> not a word
Ivan Herman: not a word ←
15:01:51 <LeeF> i'm talking to you :)
Lee Feigenbaum: i'm talking to you :) ←
15:01:58 <LeeF> reconnect?
Lee Feigenbaum: reconnect? ←
15:01:58 <ivan> dialling back
Ivan Herman: dialling back ←
15:02:04 <ivan> zakim, drop me
Ivan Herman: zakim, drop me ←
15:02:04 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan is being disconnected ←
15:02:04 <MattPerry> yes
Matthew Perry: yes ←
15:02:06 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
15:02:19 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
15:02:23 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-02-23
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-02-23 ←
15:02:26 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
15:02:28 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:02:54 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
15:03:46 <LeeF> topic: Admin
15:04:08 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-02-23
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2010-02-23 ←
15:04:20 <LeeF> Next meeting: 2010-03-09 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Souri)
Lee Feigenbaum: Next meeting: 2010-03-09 @ 15:00 UK / 10:00 EST (scribe: Souri) ←
15:05:01 <pgearon> My boss has refused to answer me about the trip, so I have no idea about my attendance
Paula Gearon: My boss has refused to answer me about the trip, so I have no idea about my attendance ←
15:05:57 <LeeF> Please take a look at Greg's email re: service descriptiona nd result formats and let your voice be heard if you have an opinion
Lee Feigenbaum: Please take a look at Greg's email re: service descriptiona nd result formats and let your voice be heard if you have an opinion ←
15:06:06 <Zakim> +bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm ←
15:06:29 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
15:06:29 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
15:07:09 <LeeF> re: F2F3 -- agenda will be test cases + most pressing issues
Lee Feigenbaum: re: F2F3 -- agenda will be test cases + most pressing issues ←
15:07:25 <LeeF> with goal of publishing something in early Apriul and then heads down to Last Call
Lee Feigenbaum: with goal of publishing something in early Apriul and then heads down to Last Call ←
15:07:43 <LeeF> topic: Liaisons
15:07:57 <LeeF> sandro: nothing significant from RIF or eGov - RIF issues being handled by entailment TF
Sandro Hawke: nothing significant from RIF or eGov - RIF issues being handled by entailment TF [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:08:41 <LeeF> LeeF: RDB2RDF working group minutes indicate a question abou SPARQL expressivityu
Lee Feigenbaum: RDB2RDF working group minutes indicate a question abou SPARQL expressivityu [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:08:45 <LeeF> ... not sure of any aactions for usyet
Lee Feigenbaum: ... not sure of any aactions for usyet ←
15:08:53 <LeeF> topic: Update
15:08:58 <LeeF> subtopic: blank nodes
15:09:43 <AndyS> Option 1: bnodes not allowed in templates
Andy Seaborne: Option 1: bnodes not allowed in templates ←
15:09:59 <AndyS> Option 2: bnodes allowed but are real (and new) bnodes => don't match
Andy Seaborne: Option 2: bnodes allowed but are real (and new) bnodes => don't match ←
15:10:18 <AndyS> Option 3: bnodes act as variables like query patterns
Andy Seaborne: Option 3: bnodes act as variables like query patterns ←
15:10:35 <LeeF> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JanMar/0146.html
Lee Feigenbaum: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2010JanMar/0146.html ←
15:10:39 <Zakim> +??P48
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P48 ←
15:10:45 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??p48 is me
Alexandre Passant: Zakim, ??p48 is me ←
15:10:45 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it ←
15:11:41 <LeeF> pgearon: leaning is to not allow blank nodes in templates
Paula Gearon: leaning is to not allow blank nodes in templates [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:12:49 <LeeF> AndyS: if we treated it as in CONSTRUCVT, would lead to OPtion 2
Andy Seaborne: if we treated it as in CONSTRUCVT, would lead to OPtion 2 [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:12:56 <LeeF> ... might be more convenient to treat them as variables?
Lee Feigenbaum: ... might be more convenient to treat them as variables? ←
15:13:08 <LeeF> sandro: one use case for treating as variables would be to delete lists?
Sandro Hawke: one use case for treating as variables would be to delete lists? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:13:18 <AndyS> sandro: Example: DELETE WHERE { ?x :p (1 2 3) }
Sandro Hawke: Example: DELETE WHERE { ?x :p (1 2 3) } [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
15:13:43 <AndyS> .. suggests option 3
Andy Seaborne: .. suggests option 3 ←
15:14:14 <LeeF> ... is there any other way to do this that's not very tedious?
Lee Feigenbaum: ... is there any other way to do this that's not very tedious? ←
15:15:27 <LeeF> pgearon: if I specify 3 blank nodes in my template ... then I might expect that they might bind to 3 differnet blank nodes in the graph, whereas they can bind to the same or to different blank nodes
Paula Gearon: if I specify 3 blank nodes in my template ... then I might expect that they might bind to 3 differnet blank nodes in the graph, whereas they can bind to the same or to different blank nodes [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:16:31 <LeeF> LeeF: my concern is repeating the same blank node label repeated in the WHERE and template, a la:
Lee Feigenbaum: my concern is repeating the same blank node label repeated in the WHERE and template, a la: [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:17:04 <LeeF> DELETE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Member ; ex:haveStatus "not a person" }
Lee Feigenbaum: DELETE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Member ; ex:haveStatus "not a person" } ←
15:18:13 <LeeF> AndyS: blank nodes in query are scoped to BGPs
Andy Seaborne: blank nodes in query are scoped to BGPs [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:18:17 <LeeF> ... they can't be re-used elsewhere
Lee Feigenbaum: ... they can't be re-used elsewhere ←
15:18:23 <LeeF> (the label can't be reused elsewhere)
Lee Feigenbaum: (the label can't be reused elsewhere) ←
15:18:40 <LeeF> ... coul have the same syntactic rule here - a label cannot be reused out of scope in an operation
Lee Feigenbaum: ... coul have the same syntactic rule here - a label cannot be reused out of scope in an operation ←
15:18:40 <bglimm> so it would be the same as DELETE { [] rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { [] rdf:type foaf:Member ; ex:haveStatus "not a person" }
Birte Glimm: so it would be the same as DELETE { [] rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { [] rdf:type foaf:Member ; ex:haveStatus "not a person" } ←
15:20:02 <LeeF> DELETE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person }
Lee Feigenbaum: DELETE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } ←
15:20:08 <LeeF> DELETE WHERE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person }
Lee Feigenbaum: DELETE WHERE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } ←
15:20:42 <LeeF> DELETE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person }
Lee Feigenbaum: DELETE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } ←
15:21:04 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:21:25 <LeeF> pgearon: looking at it, seems likely to confuse people - option 1 might be best?
Paula Gearon: looking at it, seems likely to confuse people - option 1 might be best? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:21:43 <ivan> q-
Ivan Herman: q- ←
15:21:53 <LeeF> ... people will expect that _:b1 is the same thing, even if they should be using a named variable
Lee Feigenbaum: ... people will expect that _:b1 is the same thing, even if they should be using a named variable ←
15:22:18 <bglimm> Even under option 1 the query DELETE WHERE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } would still be allowed, right?
Birte Glimm: Even under option 1 the query DELETE WHERE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } would still be allowed, right? ←
15:22:26 <AndyS> SPARQL sec 5.1.1 http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#bgpBNodeLabels
Andy Seaborne: SPARQL sec 5.1.1 http://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-sparql-query/#bgpBNodeLabels ←
15:22:29 <LeeF> bglimm, good question :)
Lee Feigenbaum: bglimm, good question :) ←
15:23:18 <ivan> bglimm, I would say it is not, because I would like to see that as an abbreviation...
Ivan Herman: bglimm, I would say it is not, because I would like to see that as an abbreviation... ←
15:24:20 <LeeF> sandro: allow blank nodes only without labels (square brackets)?
Sandro Hawke: allow blank nodes only without labels (square brackets)? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:24:22 <bglimm> Hm. I see that it would be nice to have it as an abbreviation, but than it is quite a restriction.
Birte Glimm: Hm. I see that it would be nice to have it as an abbreviation, but than it is quite a restriction. ←
15:24:59 <LeeF> AndyS: not ideal because sometimes you use labels for structure
Andy Seaborne: not ideal because sometimes you use labels for structure [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:25:22 <kasei> _:x foaf:knows _:x
Gregory Williams: _:x foaf:knows _:x ←
15:25:23 <AndyS> DELETE WHERE { :x :p _:b . :y :q _:b }
Andy Seaborne: DELETE WHERE { :x :p _:b . :y :q _:b } ←
15:25:24 <LeeF> ... e.g. the case of shared objects
Lee Feigenbaum: ... e.g. the case of shared objects ←
15:26:03 <LeeF> sandro: we'd prefer anyway that you handle that with variables rather than blank nodes?
Sandro Hawke: we'd prefer anyway that you handle that with variables rather than blank nodes? [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
15:26:09 <sandro> scribe: sandro
15:27:20 <sandro> LeeF: Andy, what does your implementation do?
Lee Feigenbaum: Andy, what does your implementation do? ←
15:27:31 <bglimm> but what does DELETE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } do?
Birte Glimm: but what does DELETE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } do? ←
15:27:34 <sandro> AndyS: I don't have a short form of Delete.
Andy Seaborne: I don't have a short form of Delete. ←
15:27:50 <sandro> LeeF: Well, what about the long from?
Lee Feigenbaum: Well, what about the long from? ←
15:27:58 <sandro> AndyS: Either parse error or like CONSTRUCT
Andy Seaborne: Either parse error or like CONSTRUCT ←
15:29:17 <sandro> sandro: I'm liking disallowing named blank node labels. It seems to avoid the danger, while allowing the things we really want.
Sandro Hawke: I'm liking disallowing named blank node labels. It seems to avoid the danger, while allowing the things we really want. ←
15:29:27 <AndyS> A template may include GRAPH and so nested {}
Andy Seaborne: A template may include GRAPH and so nested {} ←
15:29:48 <sandro> lee: Yeah, but I prefer using the same restriction as in query, where you can't use the same node label in multiple graph patterns.
Lee Feigenbaum: Yeah, but I prefer using the same restriction as in query, where you can't use the same node label in multiple graph patterns. ←
15:30:27 <LeeF> DELETE WHERE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person }
Lee Feigenbaum: DELETE WHERE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } ←
15:30:49 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
15:31:17 <bglimm> I could live with parse errors in case you use the same label in different patterns. That way at least you have to use different labels and makes it explicit that they are different bnodes and it still allows you to reuse the same bnode within one pattern.
Birte Glimm: I could live with parse errors in case you use the same label in different patterns. That way at least you have to use different labels and makes it explicit that they are different bnodes and it still allows you to reuse the same bnode within one pattern. ←
15:32:10 <LeeF> DELETE WHERE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } --> DELETE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person }
Lee Feigenbaum: DELETE WHERE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } --> DELETE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { _:b1 rdf:type foaf:Person } ←
15:32:31 <sandro> lee: which would be illegl, since _:b1 is used in two plces....
Lee Feigenbaum: which would be illegl, since _:b1 is used in two plces.... ←
15:32:37 <LeeF> ack AndyS
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS ←
15:32:54 <sandro> zakim: who is here?
Zakim IRC Bot: who is here? ←
15:34:08 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:34:10 <sandro> AndyS: I'm more comfortable with the repeated labels restriction, since I've already implemented it.
Andy Seaborne: I'm more comfortable with the repeated labels restriction, since I've already implemented it. ←
15:34:14 <Zakim> bglimm should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should no longer be muted ←
15:34:22 <bglimm> Fine for me.
Birte Glimm: Fine for me. ←
15:35:58 <sandro> sandro: blank nodes in the delete pattern act as variables, where the delete pattern is implicitely conjoined into the WHERE pattern.
Sandro Hawke: blank nodes in the delete pattern act as variables, where the delete pattern is implicitely conjoined into the WHERE pattern. ←
15:36:44 <LeeF> PROPOSED: blank nodes in the delete pattern act as variables, where the delete pattern is implicitely conjoined into the WHERE pattern and also the same blank node label may not be used in multiple BGPs or in the WHERE pattern and the template
PROPOSED: blank nodes in the delete pattern act as variables, where the delete pattern is implicitely conjoined into the WHERE pattern and also the same blank node label may not be used in multiple BGPs or in the WHERE pattern and the template ←
15:36:51 <sandro> AndyS: And blank node labels are not allowed to occur in both the DELETE pattern and WHERE pattern.
Andy Seaborne: And blank node labels are not allowed to occur in both the DELETE pattern and WHERE pattern. ←
15:37:57 <sandro> AndyS: So is it acting like in construct, or like a free variable?
Andy Seaborne: So is it acting like in construct, or like a free variable? ←
15:38:03 <LeeF> PROPOSED: blank nodes in the delete pattern act as free variables and also the same blank node label may not be used in multiple BGPs or in the WHERE pattern and the template
PROPOSED: blank nodes in the delete pattern act as free variables and also the same blank node label may not be used in multiple BGPs or in the WHERE pattern and the template ←
15:38:11 <sandro> LeeF: Like a free variable.
Lee Feigenbaum: Like a free variable. ←
15:38:42 <sandro> sandro: I don't think the term "free variable" helps us.
Sandro Hawke: I don't think the term "free variable" helps us. ←
15:39:17 <sandro> lee: The blank nodes in the DELETE pattern act sort of like wildcards, bound in each way the pattern could match.
Lee Feigenbaum: The blank nodes in the DELETE pattern act sort of like wildcards, bound in each way the pattern could match. ←
15:39:45 <LeeF> DELETE { ?person rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { }
Lee Feigenbaum: DELETE { ?person rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { } ←
15:39:49 <kasei> I'm having trouble hearing over the typing
Gregory Williams: I'm having trouble hearing over the typing ←
15:39:59 <sandro> ivan: Isn't it enough to just say blank nodes in the delete pattern need to be different from in the WHERE pattern.
Ivan Herman: Isn't it enough to just say blank nodes in the delete pattern need to be different from in the WHERE pattern. ←
15:40:00 <LeeF> DELETE { _:person rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { }
Lee Feigenbaum: DELETE { _:person rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { } ←
15:40:23 <sandro> Lee: In this, nothing would be deleted: DELETE { ?person rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { }
Lee Feigenbaum: In this, nothing would be deleted: DELETE { ?person rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { } ←
15:40:42 <sandro> Lee: In this, all Persons would be deleted: DELETE { _:person rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { }
Lee Feigenbaum: In this, all Persons would be deleted: DELETE { _:person rdf:type foaf:Person } WHERE { } ←
15:41:36 <sandro> sandro: maybe this should be written up, first?
Sandro Hawke: maybe this should be written up, first? ←
15:41:56 <sandro> unknown_person: what do blank nodes in the DELETE template give us?
unknown_person: what do blank nodes in the DELETE template give us? ←
15:42:03 <sandro> Lee: deleting lists, at least
Lee Feigenbaum: deleting lists, at least ←
15:42:08 <AndyS> Use case: DELETE WHERE { :x :p (1 2 3) }
Andy Seaborne: Use case: DELETE WHERE { :x :p (1 2 3) } ←
15:42:10 <LeeF> s/someone:/pgearon:
Lee Feigenbaum: s/someone:/pgearon: (warning: replacement failed) ←
15:42:38 <bglimm> I could see it being useful in the OWL context (should�delete ever be supported in such a setting) because many OWL constructs use bnodes in the triple form.
Birte Glimm: I could see it being useful in the OWL context (should�delete ever be supported in such a setting) because many OWL constructs use bnodes in the triple form. ←
15:43:01 <LeeF> bglimm, thanks I was vaguely wondering that
Lee Feigenbaum: bglimm, thanks I was vaguely wondering that ←
15:43:16 <AndyS> Use case: DELETE WHERE { :x :p (1 2 ?x) }
Andy Seaborne: Use case: DELETE WHERE { :x :p (1 2 ?x) } ←
15:43:56 <sandro> (I don't suppose SPARQL allows (1 2 | ?x) .... )
(I don't suppose SPARQL allows (1 2 | ?x) .... ) ←
15:44:24 <ivan> DELETE { something somethingelse _:b ; bbb ccc :_b } WHERE { ..... }
Ivan Herman: DELETE { something somethingelse _:b ; bbb ccc :_b } WHERE { ..... } ←
15:44:31 <sandro> Ivan: Folks may want to use blank nodes in the DELETE pattern to tie together structures not mentioned in the WHERE pattern.
Ivan Herman: Folks may want to use blank nodes in the DELETE pattern to tie together structures not mentioned in the WHERE pattern. ←
15:45:15 <sandro> Lee: Just put that in the WHERE pattern. If there is no WHERE pattern, then it just works.
Lee Feigenbaum: Just put that in the WHERE pattern. If there is no WHERE pattern, then it just works. ←
15:45:45 <sandro> lee: If you turn the blank nodes into variables.
Lee Feigenbaum: If you turn the blank nodes into variables. ←
15:46:30 <LeeF> Use case: DELETE { :x :p (1 2 3) } WHERE { }
Lee Feigenbaum: Use case: DELETE { :x :p (1 2 3) } WHERE { } ←
15:47:14 <sandro> AndyS: That doesn't work, because it's like construct
Andy Seaborne: That doesn't work, because it's like construct ←
15:47:24 <sandro> lee: In the view I'm proposing, it would work.
Lee Feigenbaum: In the view I'm proposing, it would work. ←
15:47:30 <AndyS> CONSTRUCT { :x :p (1 2 3) } WHERE { } is quite different.
Andy Seaborne: CONSTRUCT { :x :p (1 2 3) } WHERE { } is quite different. ←
15:47:58 <sandro> paul: Wouldn't that delete ALL losts of 1, 2, and 3 ?
Paula Gearon: Wouldn't that delete ALL lists of 1, 2, and 3 ? ←
15:48:04 <sandro> s/losts/lists/
15:48:14 <sandro> Lee: I'm happy to try to write this up.
Lee Feigenbaum: I'm happy to try to write this up. ←
15:48:28 <LeeF> ACTION: Lee to summarize discussion on blank nodes in DELETE on mailing list
ACTION: Lee to summarize discussion on blank nodes in DELETE on mailing list ←
15:48:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-201 - Summarize discussion on blank nodes in DELETE on mailing list [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2010-03-09].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-201 - Summarize discussion on blank nodes in DELETE on mailing list [on Lee Feigenbaum - due 2010-03-09]. ←
15:48:29 <AndyS> No - because :x :p ?x matches.
Andy Seaborne: No - because :x :p ?x matches. ←
15:49:22 <pgearon> short form: DELETE WHERE xxxxxxxx
Paula Gearon: short form: DELETE WHERE xxxxxxxx ←
15:49:33 <pgearon> DELETE xxxxxxxx WHERE xxxxxxxxx
Paula Gearon: DELETE xxxxxxxx WHERE xxxxxxxxx ←
15:49:33 <sandro> (various people seeing smileys from their IRC clients on these example texts... !)
(various people seeing smileys from their IRC clients on these example texts... !) ←
15:50:57 <sandro> paul: where xxxxxxxx can be anything, BGPs.
Paula Gearon: where xxxxxxxx can be anything, BGPs. ←
15:51:04 <bglimm> So this basically means bnodes cannot be used in the delete short form and they can be used in the expanded forms if the bnode labels are different in the template and the pattern
Birte Glimm: So this basically means bnodes cannot be used in the delete short form and they can be used in the expanded forms if the bnode labels are different in the template and the pattern ←
15:51:25 <sandro> AndyS: I thought we were restricting the template xxxxxxxxx to be BGPs and graphs.
Andy Seaborne: I thought we were restricting the template xxxxxxxxx to be BGPs and graphs. ←
15:51:30 <LeeF> bglimm, yes, if that's what we end up going with :)
Lee Feigenbaum: bglimm, yes, if that's what we end up going with :) ←
15:51:54 <bglimm> Ok, lets see.
Birte Glimm: Ok, lets see. ←
15:53:46 <sandro> topic: Fault handling in Query Protocol
15:55:12 <AndyS> In HTTP version, what are the status codes of e.g. GraphDoesNotExist?
Andy Seaborne: In HTTP version, what are the status codes of e.g. GraphDoesNotExist? ←
15:55:14 <AndyS> q+
Andy Seaborne: q+ ←
15:55:17 <sandro> lee: the Graph-does-not-Exist fault, ... that was before we decided last week that graphs should be implicitely created.
Lee Feigenbaum: the Graph-does-not-Exist fault, ... that was before we decided last week that graphs should be implicitely created. ←
15:55:23 <dcharbon2> It does predate, I agree that it's no longer relevant
David Charboneau: It does predate, I agree that it's no longer relevant ←
15:55:40 <bglimm> q+ to ask about the place and time to talk about errors from entailment regimes
Birte Glimm: q+ to ask about the place and time to talk about errors from entailment regimes ←
15:55:51 <bglimm> Zakim, unmute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:55:51 <Zakim> bglimm was not muted, bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm was not muted, bglimm ←
15:56:26 <sandro> LeeF: You might still want to get an error if you try to create a graph that already exists, or drop a graph that doesn't exist.
Lee Feigenbaum: You might still want to get an error if you try to create a graph that already exists, or drop a graph that doesn't exist. ←
15:56:44 <LeeF> ack AndyS
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS ←
15:57:20 <sandro> AndyS: I thought we said last week that it was legal for implementations to implicitely create graph, not that they had to.
Andy Seaborne: I thought we said last week that it was legal for implementations to implicitely create graph, not that they had to. ←
15:57:31 <sandro> LeeF: Ummmm.
Lee Feigenbaum: Ummmm. ←
15:57:42 <sandro> AndyS: A service might not allow creation of graphs
Andy Seaborne: A service might not allow creation of graphs ←
15:57:54 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant ←
15:57:59 <sandro> Lee: Sure, if explicit create doesnt work, than implicit wont
Lee Feigenbaum: Sure, if explicit create doesnt work, than implicit wont ←
15:58:28 <sandro> Lee: I understood last week to be deciding that we didn't want to support the situation where an end point REQUIRED EXPLICIT create.
Lee Feigenbaum: I understood last week to be deciding that we didn't want to support the situation where an end point REQUIRED EXPLICIT create. ←
15:58:44 <sandro> AndyS: I didn't catch that, but I'm fine with that reading.
Andy Seaborne: I didn't catch that, but I'm fine with that reading. ←
15:58:45 <LeeF> q?
Lee Feigenbaum: q? ←
15:59:18 <LeeF> ack bglimm
Lee Feigenbaum: ack bglimm ←
15:59:18 <Zakim> bglimm, you wanted to ask about the place and time to talk about errors from entailment regimes
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm, you wanted to ask about the place and time to talk about errors from entailment regimes ←
15:59:32 <sandro> paul: Agreed -- we were never going to force users to call CREATE. They could always use implicit creation, if creation works.
Paula Gearon: Agreed -- we were never going to force users to call CREATE. They could always use implicit creation, if creation works. ←
15:59:53 <AndyS> So CREATE is to be removed from the spec?
Andy Seaborne: So CREATE is to be removed from the spec? ←
16:00:00 <sandro> bglimm: At some point we need to talk about how errors/faults from entailment regimes are reported.
Birte Glimm: At some point we need to talk about how errors/faults from entailment regimes are reported. ←
16:00:21 <Zakim> +??P26
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26 ←
16:00:25 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??p26 is me
Alexandre Passant: Zakim, ??p26 is me ←
16:00:25 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it ←
16:00:39 <sandro> LeeF: Let's try to push some of these conversations more in e-mail.
Lee Feigenbaum: Let's try to push some of these conversations more in e-mail. ←
16:01:05 <sandro> ADJOURN
ADJOURN ←
16:01:08 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
16:01:11 <bglimm> bye
Birte Glimm: bye ←
16:01:11 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
16:01:12 <ivan> bye guys
Ivan Herman: bye guys ←
16:01:14 <Zakim> -pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon ←
16:01:16 <Zakim> -MattPerry
Zakim IRC Bot: -MattPerry ←
16:01:18 <Zakim> -bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm ←
16:01:18 <sandro> RRSAgent, make logs public
RRSAgent, make logs public ←
16:01:22 <Zakim> -kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei ←
16:01:24 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant ←
16:01:32 <Zakim> -dcharbon2
Zakim IRC Bot: -dcharbon2 ←
16:01:36 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
16:01:44 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
16:01:46 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended ←
16:01:48 <Zakim> Attendees were AndyS, MattPerry, Ivan, +1.310.729.aaaa, kasei, pgearon, LeeF, dcharbon2, Sandro, bglimm, AlexPassant
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were AndyS, MattPerry, Ivan, +1.310.729.aaaa, kasei, pgearon, LeeF, dcharbon2, Sandro, bglimm, AlexPassant ←
Formatted by CommonScribe