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13:59:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/07-sparql-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/07/07-sparql-irc ←
13:59:39 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
13:59:41 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 77277
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 77277 ←
13:59:41 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute ←
13:59:42 <trackbot> Meeting: SPARQL Working Group Teleconference
13:59:42 <trackbot> Date: 07 July 2009
13:59:51 <LeeF> zakim, this will be SPARQL
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, this will be SPARQL ←
13:59:51 <Zakim> ok, LeeF, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM already started
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, LeeF, I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM already started ←
13:59:56 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
13:59:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see john-l, kasei (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see john-l, kasei (muted) ←
14:00:05 <LeeF> zakim, code?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, code? ←
14:00:05 <Zakim> the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 77277 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), LeeF ←
14:00:28 <Zakim> +LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: +LeeF ←
14:00:42 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
14:00:52 <KjetilK> Zakim, ??P22 is me
Kjetil Kjernsmo: Zakim, ??P22 is me ←
14:01:00 <Zakim> +KjetilK; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +KjetilK; got it ←
14:01:04 <Zakim> +pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgearon ←
14:01:20 <Zakim> +??P25
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P25 ←
14:01:23 <AndyS> zakim, ??P25 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P25 is me ←
14:01:24 <KjetilK> Zakim, mute me
Kjetil Kjernsmo: Zakim, mute me ←
14:01:40 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
14:01:42 <Zakim> KjetilK should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: KjetilK should now be muted ←
14:01:46 <Zakim> +[IBM]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←
14:01:56 <ivanh> zakim, dial ivanh-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivanh-voip ←
14:02:04 <Zakim> ok, ivanh; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivanh; the call is being made ←
14:02:06 <Zakim> +ivanh
Zakim IRC Bot: +ivanh ←
14:02:12 <LeeF> zakim, [IBM] is temporarily SimonKJ
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, [IBM] is temporarily SimonKJ ←
14:02:19 <Zakim> +SimonKJ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SimonKJ; got it ←
14:03:01 <LeeF> zakim, who's on the phone?
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
14:03:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see john-l, kasei (muted), LeeF, KjetilK (muted), pgearon, AndyS, SimonKJ, ivanh
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see john-l, kasei (muted), LeeF, KjetilK (muted), pgearon, AndyS, SimonKJ, ivanh ←
14:03:40 <Zakim> +SimonS
Zakim IRC Bot: +SimonS ←
14:04:03 <Zakim> +??P40
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P40 ←
14:04:19 <Zakim> -??P40
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P40 ←
14:04:40 <LeeF> Chair: LeeF
14:04:44 <LeeF> Scribenick: KjetilK
(Scribe set to Kjetil Kjernsmo)
14:05:01 <Zakim> +??P42
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P42 ←
14:05:11 <Zakim> +cory
Zakim IRC Bot: +cory ←
14:05:19 <Prateek> +Prateek
Prateek Jain: +Prateek ←
14:05:19 <LukeWM> +??P42 is Garlik
Luke Wilson-Mawer: +??P42 is Garlik ←
14:05:22 <LeeF> zakim, cory is Prateek
Lee Feigenbaum: zakim, cory is Prateek ←
14:05:23 <Zakim> +Prateek; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Prateek; got it ←
14:06:10 <LukeWM> Garlik has LukeWM,SteveH
Luke Wilson-Mawer: Garlik has LukeWM,SteveH ←
14:06:39 <LukeWM> zakim,+??P42 is Garlik
Luke Wilson-Mawer: zakim,+??P42 is Garlik ←
14:06:39 <Zakim> sorry, LukeWM, I do not recognize a party named '+??P42'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, LukeWM, I do not recognize a party named '+??P42' ←
14:06:52 <LukeWM> zakim, who is on the phone?
Luke Wilson-Mawer: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:06:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see john-l, kasei (muted), LeeF, KjetilK (muted), pgearon, AndyS, SimonKJ, ivanh, SimonS, ??P42, Prateek
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see john-l, kasei (muted), LeeF, KjetilK (muted), pgearon, AndyS, SimonKJ, ivanh, SimonS, ??P42, Prateek ←
14:06:55 <john-l> Zakim, ??P42 is Garlik
John Clark: Zakim, ??P42 is Garlik ←
14:06:57 <Zakim> +Garlik; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Garlik; got it ←
14:07:17 <LukeWM> zakim, Garlik has LukeWM,SteveH
Luke Wilson-Mawer: zakim, Garlik has LukeWM,SteveH ←
14:07:22 <LeeF> topic: admin
14:07:24 <Zakim> +LukeWM, SteveH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +LukeWM, SteveH; got it ←
14:07:29 <LeeF> PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-06-30
PROPOSED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-06-30 ←
14:07:56 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
14:08:03 <KjetilK> LeeF runs through the agenda
LeeF runs through the agenda ←
14:08:21 <LeeF> RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-06-30
RESOLVED: Approve minutes at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-06-30 ←
14:09:16 <LeeF> Next meeting: 2009-07-14 @ 15:00 BST / 10:00 EDT, ivanh to scribe
Lee Feigenbaum: Next meeting: 2009-07-14 @ 15:00 BST / 10:00 EDT, ivanh to scribe ←
14:09:56 <LeeF> topic: liaisons
14:10:43 <Zakim> +??P50
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P50 ←
14:10:54 <AlexPassant> Zakim, ??P50 is me
Alexandre Passant: Zakim, ??P50 is me ←
14:10:54 <Zakim> +AlexPassant; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexPassant; got it ←
14:11:01 <LeeF> topic: open actions
14:11:02 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/open
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/open ←
14:11:14 <KjetilK> LeeF: nothing from the liasons
Lee Feigenbaum: nothing from the liasons ←
14:11:32 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-28
Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-28 ←
14:11:32 <trackbot> ACTION-28 Provide tabulator update use case on wiki closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-28 Provide tabulator update use case on wiki closed ←
14:11:48 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-32
Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-32 ←
14:11:48 <trackbot> ACTION-32 Work with SimonS on explaining and comparing UNSAID and MINUS closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-32 Work with SimonS on explaining and comparing UNSAID and MINUS closed ←
14:11:57 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-39
Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-39 ←
14:11:57 <trackbot> ACTION-39 Review F&R document closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-39 Review F&R document closed ←
14:12:03 <LeeF> Regrets: Axel, Chimezie
14:12:28 <KjetilK> Zakim, unmute me
Zakim, unmute me ←
14:12:28 <Zakim> KjetilK should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: KjetilK should no longer be muted ←
14:13:00 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-45
Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-45 ←
14:13:00 <trackbot> ACTION-45 Adopt one more additional syntaxe UNSAID or NOT EXISTS for negation closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-45 Adopt one more additional syntaxe UNSAID or NOT EXISTS for negation closed ←
14:13:04 <KjetilK> thanks...
thanks... ←
14:13:14 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-46
Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-46 ←
14:13:14 <trackbot> ACTION-46 Review F&R closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-46 Review F&R closed ←
14:13:22 <LeeF> trackbot, close ACTION-50
Lee Feigenbaum: trackbot, close ACTION-50 ←
14:13:22 <trackbot> ACTION-50 Work with Lee to publish FPWD of features & rationales closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-50 Work with Lee to publish FPWD of features & rationales closed ←
14:13:51 <LeeF> topic: Negation
14:14:12 <LeeF> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:Negation
Lee Feigenbaum: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:Negation ←
14:14:55 <KjetilK> Zakim, who is talking?
Zakim, who is talking? ←
14:15:06 <Zakim> KjetilK, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
Zakim IRC Bot: KjetilK, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds ←
14:15:28 <KjetilK> ericP: I can say something about the UNSAID and MINUS
Eric Prud'hommeaux: I can say something about the UNSAID and MINUS ←
14:15:42 <AndyS> q+ to disagree with that framing :-)
Andy Seaborne: q+ to disagree with that framing :-) ←
14:16:22 <pgearon> +1 for finding MINUS easier to figure out
Paula Gearon: +1 for finding MINUS easier to figure out ←
14:17:06 <ivanh> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
14:17:12 <LeeF> ack AndyS
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS ←
14:17:12 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to disagree with that framing :-)
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to disagree with that framing :-) ←
14:17:32 <KjetilK> LeeF: for the simple cases "find the people who doesn't have a homepage", are those the same?
Lee Feigenbaum: for the simple cases "find the people who doesn't have a homepage", are those the same? ←
14:17:37 <KjetilK> ericP: yeah
Eric Prud'hommeaux: yeah ←
14:18:27 <LeeF> ack ivanh
Lee Feigenbaum: ack ivanh ←
14:18:45 <LeeF> NOT EXISTS == UNSAID
Lee Feigenbaum: NOT EXISTS == UNSAID ←
14:20:01 <LeeF> EricP's mail comparing MINUS & UNSAID is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0022.html
Lee Feigenbaum: EricP's mail comparing MINUS & UNSAID is http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/0022.html ←
14:21:00 <KjetilK> AndyS: can you have a look at the negation design page and say where it starts to get confusing?
Andy Seaborne: can you have a look at the negation design page and say where it starts to get confusing? ←
14:21:43 <KjetilK> LeeF: I think that <NOT%20EXISTS> owl:sameAs <UNSAID>
Lee Feigenbaum: I think that <NOT%20EXISTS> owl:sameAs <UNSAID> ←
14:22:05 <KjetilK> ...for the purpose of this discussion
...for the purpose of this discussion ←
14:22:13 <pgearon> +q on syntactic use of MINUS
Paula Gearon: +q on syntactic use of MINUS ←
14:22:24 <KjetilK> AndyS: NOT EXISTS is always a filter
Andy Seaborne: NOT EXISTS is always a filter ←
14:24:14 <LeeF> A. B. NOT EXISTS { C } . D. means Join(A . B) _then_ Filter out solutions compatible with Eval(C) _then_ join with D ?
Lee Feigenbaum: A. B. NOT EXISTS { C } . D. means Join(A . B) _then_ Filter out solutions compatible with Eval(C) _then_ join with D ? ←
14:25:06 <KjetilK> ack pgearon
ack pgearon ←
14:25:06 <Zakim> pgearon, you wanted to comment on syntactic use of MINUS
Zakim IRC Bot: pgearon, you wanted to comment on syntactic use of MINUS ←
14:25:09 <LeeF> q+ to ask for more help understanding the difference :)
Lee Feigenbaum: q+ to ask for more help understanding the difference :) ←
14:26:16 <AndyS> q+ to ask if there is a difference without OPTIONAL?
Andy Seaborne: q+ to ask if there is a difference without OPTIONAL? ←
14:27:10 <KjetilK> LeeF: I think we need a deeper understanding of NOT EXISTS vs MINUS
Lee Feigenbaum: I think we need a deeper understanding of NOT EXISTS vs MINUS ←
14:27:34 <AndyS> kasei?
Andy Seaborne: kasei? ←
14:27:51 <kasei> yes?
Gregory Williams: yes? ←
14:28:09 <LeeF> matches == same variables bound to same values
Lee Feigenbaum: matches == same variables bound to same values ←
14:28:23 <AndyS> You have UNSAID - does your experience help here to explain things?
Andy Seaborne: You have UNSAID - does your experience help here to explain things? ←
14:28:59 <kasei> mine is implemented essentially as you've described yours, equivalent to a filter.
Gregory Williams: mine is implemented essentially as you've described yours, equivalent to a filter. ←
14:29:39 <kasei> with variable substitution from the result in the expr/bgp and then testing for existence.
Gregory Williams: with variable substitution from the result in the expr/bgp and then testing for existence. ←
14:30:03 <AndyS> An Example: ?a = "a" MINUS ?b = "b" is ????
Andy Seaborne: An Example: ?a = "a" MINUS ?b = "b" is ???? ←
14:30:28 <LeeF> q?
Lee Feigenbaum: q? ←
14:30:31 <LeeF> ack LeeF
Lee Feigenbaum: ack LeeF ←
14:30:31 <Zakim> LeeF, you wanted to ask for more help understanding the difference :)
Zakim IRC Bot: LeeF, you wanted to ask for more help understanding the difference :) ←
14:30:38 <kasei> I would assume that would result in { a="a" }
Gregory Williams: I would assume that would result in { a="a" } ←
14:30:47 <pgearon> same here
Paula Gearon: same here ←
14:30:53 <AndyS> SPARQL-Join is ("a", "b")
Andy Seaborne: SPARQL-Join is ("a", "b") ←
14:31:05 <LeeF> A - {?a = "a"} MINUS B - {?a = "a"}
Lee Feigenbaum: A - {?a = "a"} MINUS B - {?a = "a"} ←
14:31:21 <LeeF> => no solutions
Lee Feigenbaum: => no solutions ←
14:31:30 <LeeF> A - {?a = "a", ?b = "b"} MINUS B - {?a = "a"}
Lee Feigenbaum: A - {?a = "a", ?b = "b"} MINUS B - {?a = "a"} ←
14:31:46 <LeeF> => no solutions
Lee Feigenbaum: => no solutions ←
14:31:48 <ivanh> ?
Ivan Herman: ? ←
14:32:12 <ivanh> why not ?b="b"
Ivan Herman: why not ?b="b" ←
14:32:24 <SteveH> because you lose the whole solution
Steve Harris: because you lose the whole solution ←
14:33:09 <LeeF> A - {?a = "a", ?b = "b"} MINUS B - {?a = "a", ?c = "c"}
Lee Feigenbaum: A - {?a = "a", ?b = "b"} MINUS B - {?a = "a", ?c = "c"} ←
14:33:09 <ivanh> aha, too
Ivan Herman: aha, too ←
14:33:23 <pgearon> we're using the same "compatibility" test that a "join" uses
Paula Gearon: we're using the same "compatibility" test that a "join" uses ←
14:33:30 <LeeF> => no solutions
Lee Feigenbaum: => no solutions ←
14:33:43 <ericP> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:Negation#MINUS_with_unification_on_multiple_columns
Eric Prud'hommeaux: http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/Design:Negation#MINUS_with_unification_on_multiple_columns ←
14:33:50 <LeeF> A - {?b = "b"} MINUS B - {?c = "c"}
Lee Feigenbaum: A - {?b = "b"} MINUS B - {?c = "c"} ←
14:34:21 <LeeF> joining would give {?b = "b", ?c = "c"}
Lee Feigenbaum: joining would give {?b = "b", ?c = "c"} ←
14:34:28 <SteveH> no, I dont think so
Steve Harris: no, I dont think so ←
14:34:33 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau
Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencagrau ←
14:34:55 <bglimm> Zakim, bcuencagrau is bglimm
Birte Glimm: Zakim, bcuencagrau is bglimm ←
14:34:55 <Zakim> +bglimm; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bglimm; got it ←
14:35:08 <LeeF> """
Lee Feigenbaum: """ ←
14:35:09 <LeeF> Definition: Compatible Mappings
Lee Feigenbaum: Definition: Compatible Mappings ←
14:35:09 <LeeF> Two solution mappings mu1 and mu2 are compatible if, for every variable v in dom(mu1) and in dom(mu2), mu1(v) = mu2(v).
Lee Feigenbaum: Two solution mappings mu1 and mu2 are compatible if, for every variable v in dom(mu1) and in dom(mu2), mu1(v) = mu2(v). ←
14:35:11 <LeeF> """
Lee Feigenbaum: """ ←
14:36:13 <LeeF> => A
Lee Feigenbaum: => A ←
14:36:14 <pgearon> {?b = "b"}
Paula Gearon: {?b = "b"} ←
14:36:25 <SteveH> q+
Steve Harris: q+ ←
14:36:42 <SteveH> I think you get { ?b = "b" } { ?c = "c" }
Steve Harris: I think you get { ?b = "b" } { ?c = "c" } ←
14:36:51 <LeeF> MINUS - for each solution A on LHS, remove it if there is at least one solution B on the RHS such that A and B are compatible and A and B share at least one variable in common in their domain
Lee Feigenbaum: MINUS - for each solution A on LHS, remove it if there is at least one solution B on the RHS such that A and B are compatible and A and B share at least one variable in common in their domain ←
14:36:51 <SteveH> not { ?b = "b", ?c = "c" }
Steve Harris: not { ?b = "b", ?c = "c" } ←
14:37:25 <pgearon> +q
Paula Gearon: +q ←
14:37:28 <SteveH> q-
Steve Harris: q- ←
14:37:34 <AndyS> UNION gives { ?b = "b" } { ?c = "c" }
Andy Seaborne: UNION gives { ?b = "b" } { ?c = "c" } ←
14:38:00 <SimonS> q+
Simon Schenk: q+ ←
14:38:52 <KjetilK> ack AndyS
ack AndyS ←
14:38:52 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask if there is a difference without OPTIONAL?
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask if there is a difference without OPTIONAL? ←
14:38:55 <LeeF> ack pgearon
Lee Feigenbaum: ack pgearon ←
14:38:59 <KjetilK> ack pgearon
ack pgearon ←
14:39:12 <LeeF> q+ AndyS to ask if there is a difference without OPTIONAL?
Lee Feigenbaum: q+ AndyS to ask if there is a difference without OPTIONAL? ←
14:40:33 <SimonS> q-
Simon Schenk: q- ←
14:40:38 <bglimm> Zakim, mute me
Birte Glimm: Zakim, mute me ←
14:40:38 <Zakim> bglimm should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bglimm should now be muted ←
14:41:09 <LeeF> q?
Lee Feigenbaum: q? ←
14:41:22 <LeeF> ack AndyS
Lee Feigenbaum: ack AndyS ←
14:41:22 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to ask if there is a difference without OPTIONAL?
Zakim IRC Bot: AndyS, you wanted to ask if there is a difference without OPTIONAL? ←
14:42:22 <ericP> q+ to defend that SQL's is the same
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ to defend that SQL's is the same ←
14:42:34 <SteveH> +1 SQL's is the same
Steve Harris: +1 SQL's is the same ←
14:42:40 <LeeF> AndyS: there are 3 possible MINUS definitions
Andy Seaborne: there are 3 possible MINUS definitions [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
14:42:42 <LeeF> 1) SQL's
Lee Feigenbaum: 1) SQL's ←
14:42:45 <LeeF> 2) antijoin
Lee Feigenbaum: 2) antijoin ←
14:42:54 <LeeF> 3) antijoin + restriction on sharing a variable (what LeeF wrote above)
Lee Feigenbaum: 3) antijoin + restriction on sharing a variable (what LeeF wrote above) ←
14:43:14 <pgearon> so it becomes a "set difference" operation in SQL
Paula Gearon: so it becomes a "set difference" operation in SQL ←
14:43:48 <kasei> +1 on "anti-optional" -- underneath, that's exactly how mine is implemented :)
Gregory Williams: +1 on "anti-optional" -- underneath, that's exactly how mine is implemented :) ←
14:44:31 <pgearon> I've mentioned this before, but I have a blog description of this "antijoin" http://gearon.blogspot.com/2004/10/owlsameas-majority-of-today-was-spent.html
Paula Gearon: I've mentioned this before, but I have a blog description of this "antijoin" http://gearon.blogspot.com/2004/10/owlsameas-majority-of-today-was-spent.html ←
14:44:58 <pgearon> It's not necessarily well written, but I still think it's correct
Paula Gearon: It's not necessarily well written, but I still think it's correct ←
14:45:27 <SteveH> sql example: http://www.1keydata.com/sql/sql-minus.html
Steve Harris: sql example: http://www.1keydata.com/sql/sql-minus.html ←
14:46:39 <ericP> q-
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q- ←
14:47:01 <AndyS> Steve - they are column compatible!
Andy Seaborne: Steve - they are column compatible! ←
14:47:54 <pgearon> +1 about either approach working for me
Paula Gearon: +1 about either approach working for me ←
14:48:40 <LeeF> AndyS: the one i find difficult is the pure antijoin where no variables in common means remove the solution
Andy Seaborne: the one i find difficult is the pure antijoin where no variables in common means remove the solution [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
14:48:44 <SimonS> +1 that restriction on sharing a variable will get us into trouble
Simon Schenk: +1 that restriction on sharing a variable will get us into trouble ←
14:50:20 <KjetilK> AndyS: there is a problem of cardinality, if you have 3 on the LHS and 2 on the RHS, do you get 1 or 0?
Andy Seaborne: there is a problem of cardinality, if you have 3 on the LHS and 2 on the RHS, do you get 1 or 0? ←
14:50:28 <LeeF> kasei, do you have an opinion on this in general?
Lee Feigenbaum: kasei, do you have an opinion on this in general? ←
14:50:29 <KjetilK> ericP: I'd do what SQL does?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: I'd do what SQL does? ←
14:51:02 <kasei> I think you've gotten it right. I prefer unsaid (but not exists is, I believe, just syntactically different).
Gregory Williams: I think you've gotten it right. I prefer unsaid (but not exists is, I believe, just syntactically different). ←
14:51:21 <kasei> ... and am confused/worried by the 3 different characterizations of minus.
Gregory Williams: ... and am confused/worried by the 3 different characterizations of minus. ←
14:51:30 <SteveH> UNION is horrible
Steve Harris: UNION is horrible ←
14:52:21 <SimonKJ> q+
Scribe problem: the name 'SimonKJ' does not match any of the 59 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ahmed Ezzat Alexandre Passant Andrei Lopatenko Andy Seaborne Axel Polleres Bijan Parsia Birte Glimm Bryan Thompson Chimezie Ogbuji Cui Tao Daniel Schutzer Dave Beckett David Newman Davide Palmisano Dhanapalan Kulandai Vadivel Dirk Colaert Dirk-Willem van Gulik Edward Thomas Elias Torres Enrico Franconi Eric Prud'hommeaux Frank Careccia Fred Zemke Gregory Williams Hiroyuki Sato Ivan Mikhailov Ivan Herman Jacek Kopecký Janne Saarela Jari Vänttinen Jean-François Baget Jeen Broekstra Jeff Pollock John Clark Jos De Roo Kendall Clark Kevin Wilkinson Kjetil Kjernsmo Lee Feigenbaum Luke Wilson-Mawer Michael Smith Michele Minno Nophadol Jekjantuk Orri Erling Paula Gearon Prateek Jain Rachel Yager Roland Schwaenzl Sergio Tessaris Simon Johnston Simon Schenk Souripriya Das Steve Harris Sven Groppe Timo Westkämper Yoshio Fukushige Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'SimonKJ' does not match any of the 59 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ahmed Ezzat Alexandre Passant Andrei Lopatenko Andy Seaborne Axel Polleres Bijan Parsia Birte Glimm Bryan Thompson Chimezie Ogbuji Cui Tao Daniel Schutzer Dave Beckett David Newman Davide Palmisano Dhanapalan Kulandai Vadivel Dirk Colaert Dirk-Willem van Gulik Edward Thomas Elias Torres Enrico Franconi Eric Prud'hommeaux Frank Careccia Fred Zemke Gregory Williams Hiroyuki Sato Ivan Mikhailov Ivan Herman Jacek Kopecký Janne Saarela Jari Vänttinen Jean-François Baget Jeen Broekstra Jeff Pollock John Clark Jos De Roo Kendall Clark Kevin Wilkinson Kjetil Kjernsmo Lee Feigenbaum Luke Wilson-Mawer Michael Smith Michele Minno Nophadol Jekjantuk Orri Erling Paula Gearon Prateek Jain Rachel Yager Roland Schwaenzl Sergio Tessaris Simon Johnston Simon Schenk Souripriya Das Steve Harris Sven Groppe Timo Westkämper Yoshio Fukushige Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown SimonKJ: q+ ←
14:52:38 <pgearon> I think we have a general preference for either of LeeF's (2) or (3)
Paula Gearon: I think we have a general preference for either of LeeF's (2) or (3) ←
14:52:41 <LeeF> ack SimonKJ
Lee Feigenbaum: ack SimonKJ ←
14:54:30 <LeeF> SimonKJ: different approaches have significantly different impacts on query plans / optimizers, even if they'd give the same results
Scribe problem: the name 'SimonKJ' does not match any of the 59 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ahmed Ezzat Alexandre Passant Andrei Lopatenko Andy Seaborne Axel Polleres Bijan Parsia Birte Glimm Bryan Thompson Chimezie Ogbuji Cui Tao Daniel Schutzer Dave Beckett David Newman Davide Palmisano Dhanapalan Kulandai Vadivel Dirk Colaert Dirk-Willem van Gulik Edward Thomas Elias Torres Enrico Franconi Eric Prud'hommeaux Frank Careccia Fred Zemke Gregory Williams Hiroyuki Sato Ivan Mikhailov Ivan Herman Jacek Kopecký Janne Saarela Jari Vänttinen Jean-François Baget Jeen Broekstra Jeff Pollock John Clark Jos De Roo Kendall Clark Kevin Wilkinson Kjetil Kjernsmo Lee Feigenbaum Luke Wilson-Mawer Michael Smith Michele Minno Nophadol Jekjantuk Orri Erling Paula Gearon Prateek Jain Rachel Yager Roland Schwaenzl Sergio Tessaris Simon Johnston Simon Schenk Souripriya Das Steve Harris Sven Groppe Timo Westkämper Yoshio Fukushige Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown SimonKJ: different approaches have significantly different impacts on query plans / optimizers, even if they'd give the same results [ Scribe Assist by Lee Feigenbaum ] ←
14:55:07 <SteveH> I would find it had to optimise NOT EXISTS as a FILTER in SQL
Steve Harris: I would find it had to optimise NOT EXISTS as a FILTER in SQL ←
14:55:13 <SteveH> sorry, SPARQL
Steve Harris: sorry, SPARQL ←
14:55:22 <pgearon> +1
Paula Gearon: +1 ←
14:55:34 <AndyS> An optimizer can do it how it likes - I do join/leftjoin like that.
Andy Seaborne: An optimizer can do it how it likes - I do join/leftjoin like that. ←
14:55:46 <SteveH> yeah, but I don't
Steve Harris: yeah, but I don't ←
14:55:57 <SteveH> it would be a lot slower
Steve Harris: it would be a lot slower ←
14:56:28 <AndyS> ??
Andy Seaborne: ?? ←
14:56:58 <pgearon> I think that we should move it to the mailing list until everyone who wants to discuss it has their head around it
Paula Gearon: I think that we should move it to the mailing list until everyone who wants to discuss it has their head around it ←
14:57:45 <KjetilK> LeeF: we go to Update
Lee Feigenbaum: we go to Update ←
14:58:14 <KjetilK> LeeF: AndyS has asked if we could adopt the Member Submission as a starting point
Lee Feigenbaum: AndyS has asked if we could adopt the Member Submission as a starting point ←
14:58:26 <KjetilK> AndyS: are there any completely different approaches?
Andy Seaborne: are there any completely different approaches? ←
14:58:35 <SteveH> there's the explicit FILTER() form
Steve Harris: there's the explicit FILTER() form ←
14:58:47 <KjetilK> ...if there are, now it is the time to put it on the table
...if there are, now it is the time to put it on the table ←
14:58:55 <ivanh> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
14:59:00 <LeeF> ack ivanh
Lee Feigenbaum: ack ivanh ←
14:59:01 <SteveH> what about the diff-like syntax?
Steve Harris: what about the diff-like syntax? ←
14:59:37 <SteveH> and/or DAV
Steve Harris: and/or DAV ←
15:00:02 <KjetilK> ivanh: the Member Submission has a lot of support allready, it is a starting point on its own merits
Ivan Herman: the Member Submission has a lot of support allready, it is a starting point on its own merits ←
15:00:03 <pgearon> I agree with ivanh, SPARQL-Update is already implemented in a lot of places
Paula Gearon: I agree with ivanh, SPARQL-Update is already implemented in a lot of places ←
15:00:47 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
15:00:50 <Zakim> -ivanh
Zakim IRC Bot: -ivanh ←
15:00:51 <Zakim> -john-l
Zakim IRC Bot: -john-l ←
15:00:52 <Zakim> -SimonKJ
Scribe problem: the name 'SimonKJ' does not match any of the 59 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Ahmed Ezzat Alexandre Passant Andrei Lopatenko Andy Seaborne Axel Polleres Bijan Parsia Birte Glimm Bryan Thompson Chimezie Ogbuji Cui Tao Daniel Schutzer Dave Beckett David Newman Davide Palmisano Dhanapalan Kulandai Vadivel Dirk Colaert Dirk-Willem van Gulik Edward Thomas Elias Torres Enrico Franconi Eric Prud'hommeaux Frank Careccia Fred Zemke Gregory Williams Hiroyuki Sato Ivan Mikhailov Ivan Herman Jacek Kopecký Janne Saarela Jari Vänttinen Jean-François Baget Jeen Broekstra Jeff Pollock John Clark Jos De Roo Kendall Clark Kevin Wilkinson Kjetil Kjernsmo Lee Feigenbaum Luke Wilson-Mawer Michael Smith Michele Minno Nophadol Jekjantuk Orri Erling Paula Gearon Prateek Jain Rachel Yager Roland Schwaenzl Sergio Tessaris Simon Johnston Simon Schenk Souripriya Das Steve Harris Sven Groppe Timo Westkämper Yoshio Fukushige Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -SimonKJ ←
15:00:53 <Zakim> -pgearon
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgearon ←
15:00:56 <Zakim> -bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: -bglimm ←
15:00:58 <Zakim> -SimonS
Zakim IRC Bot: -SimonS ←
15:01:00 <Zakim> -Prateek
Zakim IRC Bot: -Prateek ←
15:01:02 <Zakim> -AlexPassant
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexPassant ←
15:01:04 <Zakim> -LeeF
Zakim IRC Bot: -LeeF ←
15:01:08 <Zakim> -KjetilK
Zakim IRC Bot: -KjetilK ←
15:01:10 <Zakim> -kasei
Zakim IRC Bot: -kasei ←
15:01:12 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
15:01:14 <Zakim> SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has ended ←
15:01:16 <Zakim> Attendees were john-l, kasei, LeeF, KjetilK, pgearon, AndyS, ivanh, SimonKJ, SimonS, Prateek, LukeWM, SteveH, EricP, AlexPassant, bglimm
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were john-l, kasei, LeeF, KjetilK, pgearon, AndyS, ivanh, SimonKJ, SimonS, Prateek, LukeWM, SteveH, EricP, AlexPassant, bglimm ←
Formatted by CommonScribe