edit

RDFa Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 03 March 2011

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Feb/0183.html
Present
Ivan Herman, Manu Sporny, Nathan Rixham, Shane McCarron, Steven Pemberton, Toby Inkster
Regrets
Mark Birbeck
Chair
Manu Sporny
Scribe
Shane McCarron
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. HTML5+RDFa 1.1 should mention that xmlns: is processed only for backwards-compatibility reasons and that authors SHOULD NOT use xmlns: and should use @prefix instead. link
Topics
14:43:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/03/03-rdfa-irc

14:43:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:43:23 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 7332

14:43:23 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes

14:43:24 <trackbot> Meeting: RDFa Working Group Teleconference
14:43:24 <trackbot> Date: 03 March 2011
14:44:30 <manu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Feb/0183.html
14:44:44 <manu> Chair: Manu
14:59:08 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

(No events recorded for 15 minutes)

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

14:59:08 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

14:59:09 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started

14:59:11 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

15:00:22 <manu> Present: Ivan, Manu, Nathan, Shane, Steven, Toby
15:00:22 <manu> Regrets: MarkB
15:01:41 <Zakim> +??P18

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P18

15:01:50 <manu> zakim, I am ??P18

Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P18

15:01:50 <Zakim> +manu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +manu; got it

15:02:35 <Zakim> +??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21

15:02:41 <ShaneM> zakim, I am ??P21

Shane McCarron: zakim, I am ??P21

15:02:41 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM; got it

15:06:33 <Steven_> zakim, who is on the call?

Steven Pemberton: zakim, who is on the call?

15:06:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see Ivan, manu, ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Ivan, manu, ShaneM

15:06:37 <Zakim> +??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15

15:06:40 <Steven_> zakim, dial steven-617

Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617

15:06:40 <Zakim> ok, Steven_; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven_; the call is being made

15:06:42 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

15:06:47 <webr3> Zakim, i am ??P15

Nathan Rixham: Zakim, i am ??P15

15:06:47 <Zakim> +webr3; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +webr3; got it

15:10:56 <manu> scribenick: ShaneM

(Scribe set to Shane McCarron)

15:11:09 <ShaneM> TOPIC: Using xmlns in HTML+RDFa

1. Using xmlns in HTML+RDFa

15:09:55 <manu> Ivan: I have some updates to the agenda - xmlns: - We should discuss whether it is used in HTML5...

Ivan Herman: I have some updates to the agenda - xmlns: - We should discuss whether it is used in HTML5... [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

15:10:12 <manu> Ivan: In HTML5+RDFa 1.1, is it necessary at all to keep the references to xmlns: ?

Ivan Herman: In HTML5+RDFa 1.1, is it necessary at all to keep the references to xmlns: ? [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

15:11:12 <webr3> from here: http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/

Nathan Rixham: from here: http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/

15:11:31 <ShaneM> Ivan: can we remove references to xmlns in HTML5?

Ivan Herman: can we remove references to xmlns in HTML5?

15:12:04 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

15:12:26 <ShaneM> Manu: We can remove references, but... there is still a requirement that we process xmlns attributes in XHTML mode.

Manu Sporny: We can remove references, but... there is still a requirement that we process xmlns attributes in XHTML mode.

15:12:31 <ivan> zakim, drop me

Ivan Herman: zakim, drop me

15:12:31 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I do not see a party named 'ivan'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, ivan, I do not see a party named 'ivan'

15:12:38 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

15:12:38 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

15:12:40 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

15:12:59 <ShaneM> ShaneM: Why is there a requirement?

Shane McCarron: Why is there a requirement?

15:13:35 <ShaneM> manu: There are documents that are delivered as text/html and are RDFa 1.0 documents... and those use @xmlns, and they need to be processed correctly.

Manu Sporny: There are documents that are delivered as text/html and are RDFa 1.0 documents... and those use @xmlns, and they need to be processed correctly.

15:14:02 <manu> http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/#extensions-to-the-html5-syntax

Manu Sporny: http://dev.w3.org/html5/rdfa/#extensions-to-the-html5-syntax

15:14:07 <ShaneM> ... RDFa Core says that already, so we are okay.  But HTML+RDFa needs to talk about how to extract xmlns from the infoset or DOM-based processors - it was part of the feedback on HTML5.

... RDFa Core says that already, so we are okay. But HTML+RDFa needs to talk about how to extract xmlns from the infoset or DOM-based processors - it was part of the feedback on HTML5.

15:14:47 <ShaneM> ... I do intend to go back and edit so it mentions it less.  But we got feedback from the HTML5 community that we need to cover the case so processor authors know how to get the content.

... I do intend to go back and edit so it mentions it less. But we got feedback from the HTML5 community that we need to cover the case so processor authors know how to get the content.

15:15:38 <ShaneM> ivan: We need to say that @xmlns is deprecated in HTML+RDFa - but  for backward compatibility we need to process it.

Ivan Herman: We need to say that @xmlns is deprecated in HTML+RDFa - but for backward compatibility we need to process it.

15:15:54 <ShaneM> Manu: So this is a direction to authors, not to processor developers.

Manu Sporny: So this is a direction to authors, not to processor developers.

15:17:56 <manu> PROPOSAL: HTML5+RDFa 1.1 should mention that xmlns: is processed only for backwards-compatibility reasons and that authors SHOULD NOT use xmlns: and should use @prefix instead.

PROPOSED: HTML5+RDFa 1.1 should mention that xmlns: is processed only for backwards-compatibility reasons and that authors SHOULD NOT use xmlns: and should use @prefix instead.

15:18:15 <tinkster> +1

Toby Inkster: +1

15:18:18 <ShaneM> +1

+1

15:18:22 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

15:18:28 <Steven_> +0

Steven Pemberton: +0

15:19:10 <manu> +1

Manu Sporny: +1

15:19:26 <webr3> +1

Nathan Rixham: +1

15:20:14 <manu> RESOLVED: HTML5+RDFa 1.1 should mention that xmlns: is processed only for backwards-compatibility reasons and that authors SHOULD NOT use xmlns: and should use @prefix instead.

RESOLVED: HTML5+RDFa 1.1 should mention that xmlns: is processed only for backwards-compatibility reasons and that authors SHOULD NOT use xmlns: and should use @prefix instead.

15:21:53 <manu> Ivan: Why do we have the "Why CURIEs insteaed of QNames?" section?

Ivan Herman: Why do we have the "Why CURIEs insteaed of QNames?" section? [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ]

15:21:58 <ShaneM> Ivan: Why is there a section about Qnames instead of CURIEs?

Ivan Herman: Why is there a section about Qnames instead of CURIEs?

15:22:35 <manu> I think that we do need that section in there

Manu Sporny: I think that we do need that section in there

15:22:43 <ShaneM> ShaneM: Because a commentor wanted us to explain why we are using CURIEs rather than Qnames.

Shane McCarron: Because a commentor wanted us to explain why we are using CURIEs rather than Qnames.

15:22:51 <ShaneM> ivan: okay - but I think it is unnecessary.

Ivan Herman: okay - but I think it is unnecessary.

15:23:11 <manu> Topic: ISSUE-73: Default RDFa Profile Processing

2. ISSUE-73: Default RDFa Profile Processing

15:23:27 <manu> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Feb/0180.html

Manu Sporny: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Feb/0180.html

15:25:05 <ShaneM> Manu: explains the context of the discussion...  that RDFa Core has a profile defined, and that other host languages may include multiple profiles at start up if they choose.

Manu Sporny: explains the context of the discussion... that RDFa Core has a profile defined, and that other host languages may include multiple profiles at start up if they choose.

15:25:55 <ShaneM> Ivan: Editorial question...  does this mean that host languages need to indicate which default profiles they use (if any) ?

Ivan Herman: Editorial question... does this mean that host languages need to indicate which default profiles they use (if any) ?

15:25:57 <ShaneM> ShaneM: yes.

Shane McCarron: yes.

15:26:39 <ShaneM> Ivan: Will anyone else produce a formal host language?

Ivan Herman: Will anyone else produce a formal host language?

15:26:46 <ShaneM> ShaneM: ODF?  DAISY?

Shane McCarron: ODF? DAISY?

15:27:07 <ShaneM> Ivan: Well, no.  Those are not really formal.  They will default to XML+RDFa

Ivan Herman: Well, no. Those are not really formal. They will default to XML+RDFa

15:27:40 <ShaneM> ... Toby has an ATOM+RDFa profile... that might be something formal.

... Toby has an ATOM+RDFa profile... that might be something formal.

15:27:59 <ShaneM> Manu: But what you were discussing is what happens in the absence of a formal language, and I would expect that many processors will default to XML+RDFa.

Manu Sporny: But what you were discussing is what happens in the absence of a formal language, and I would expect that many processors will default to XML+RDFa.

15:30:24 <manu> Topic: RDFa Core 1.1 and XHTML+RDFa 1.1 Updates

3. RDFa Core 1.1 and XHTML+RDFa 1.1 Updates

15:30:38 <webr3> -> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-core/

Nathan Rixham: -> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-core/

15:31:02 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-core/Overview-src.html

Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-core/Overview-src.html

15:31:44 <ShaneM> Just waiting for feedback.  Already got feedback from Ivan and Nathan

Just waiting for feedback. Already got feedback from Ivan and Nathan

15:33:04 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

15:33:29 <ivan> zakim, drop me

Ivan Herman: zakim, drop me

15:33:29 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I do not see a party named 'ivan'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, ivan, I do not see a party named 'ivan'

15:33:45 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

15:33:45 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

15:33:47 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

15:34:14 <manu> zakim, drop Ivan

Manu Sporny: zakim, drop Ivan

15:34:14 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan is being disconnected

15:34:15 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

15:35:05 <ShaneM> Reviews to Shane no later than noon US central time on Sunday, 6 March.

Reviews to Shane no later than noon US central time on Sunday, 6 March.

15:35:16 <ShaneM> Shane to produce a dated version with diff marks on 6 March.

Shane to produce a dated version with diff marks on 6 March.

15:35:28 <ShaneM> Manu to notify commentors so that they can review.

Manu to notify commentors so that they can review.

15:42:53 <ShaneM> TOPIC: RDFa Primer

(No events recorded for 7 minutes)

4. RDFa Primer

15:42:23 <Steven_> I volunteer to re-work the RDFa Primer

Steven Pemberton: I volunteer to re-work the RDFa Primer

15:42:46 <ShaneM> Yay!

Yay!

15:43:08 <ShaneM> Primer at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-primer/Overview-src.html

Primer at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-primer/Overview-src.html

15:43:32 <ShaneM> Steven has volunteered to edit the RDFa Primer.

Steven has volunteered to edit the RDFa Primer.

15:45:27 <ShaneM> TOPIC: RDFa and RDF API discussion

5. RDFa and RDF API discussion

15:36:58 <ShaneM> Manu: There might not be the right people here.

Manu Sporny: There might not be the right people here.

15:37:46 <ShaneM> ... there are some other players who need to be involved.  BBC, DFKI, Revelytix, Google, Mark?

... there are some other players who need to be involved. BBC, DFKI, Revelytix, Google, Mark?

15:45:53 <ShaneM> Manu: I think three people are enough to discuss, but we might end up going back and revisiting because we have new blood showing up with the new charter

(No events recorded for 8 minutes)

Manu Sporny: I think three people are enough to discuss, but we might end up going back and revisiting because we have new blood showing up with the new charter

15:46:06 <ShaneM> ... I am reluctant to delay for 5 weeks.

... I am reluctant to delay for 5 weeks.

15:46:22 <ShaneM> Ivan: Are the documents publishable today if we marked them up with lots of 'issues' ?

Ivan Herman: Are the documents publishable today if we marked them up with lots of 'issues' ?

15:46:49 <ShaneM> ... the problem I have is that the only public draft we have is old and makes it hard to beat the bushes for new players.

... the problem I have is that the only public draft we have is old and makes it hard to beat the bushes for new players.

15:47:03 <ShaneM> Manu: I believe both documents are in a state that we could publish.

Manu Sporny: I believe both documents are in a state that we could publish.

15:47:10 <webr3> q+ to disagree

Nathan Rixham: q+ to disagree

15:47:33 <ShaneM> ... the old documents aren't in that that bad a shape.  Not as bad as Ivan thinks they are.  There are already some examples.  The WebIDL is pretty solid.  We need prose.

... the old documents aren't in that that bad a shape. Not as bad as Ivan thinks they are. There are already some examples. The WebIDL is pretty solid. We need prose.

15:47:36 <manu> ack webr3

Manu Sporny: ack webr3

15:47:36 <Zakim> webr3, you wanted to disagree

Zakim IRC Bot: webr3, you wanted to disagree

15:48:16 <ShaneM> Nathan: The documents still need some work... the RDFa API needs to be 'minified' because it duplicates content in the RDF API.  A couple of hours.

Nathan Rixham: The documents still need some work... the RDFa API needs to be 'minified' because it duplicates content in the RDF API. A couple of hours.

15:48:35 <ShaneM> ... The RDF API needs a bit of work to flesh them out before it could go public.

... The RDF API needs a bit of work to flesh them out before it could go public.

15:49:01 <ShaneM> Ivan: Then I propose that we don't wait for 4 or 5 weeks.  Let's publish them as soon as possible.

Ivan Herman: Then I propose that we don't wait for 4 or 5 weeks. Let's publish them as soon as possible.

15:49:06 <ShaneM> q+ to ask a process issue

q+ to ask a process issue

15:49:15 <ShaneM> ... this will draw attention to our work.

... this will draw attention to our work.

15:49:16 <manu> ack ShaneM

Manu Sporny: ack ShaneM

15:49:16 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask a process issue

Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to ask a process issue

15:49:58 <ShaneM> ShaneM: Can we publish RDF API Working Draft document under our current charter?

Shane McCarron: Can we publish RDF API Working Draft document under our current charter?

15:50:02 <ShaneM> Ivan: Yes.

Ivan Herman: Yes.

15:50:18 <ShaneM> Nathan: Would it be at its permanent home?

Nathan Rixham: Would it be at its permanent home?

15:50:38 <ShaneM> Ivan: I think so.  The short name shouldn't change after the charter changes.

Ivan Herman: I think so. The short name shouldn't change after the charter changes.

15:51:38 <ShaneM> We need to discuss Prefixes and Terms.  and we also need to discuss projections and property groups.

We need to discuss Prefixes and Terms. and we also need to discuss projections and property groups.

15:54:55 <ShaneM> concern about critical mass of expertise for API discussions.

concern about critical mass of expertise for API discussions.

15:54:59 <manu> ACTION: Ivan to invite new participants to RDF Web Apps Working Group as soon as possible.

ACTION: Ivan to invite new participants to RDF Web Apps Working Group as soon as possible.

15:54:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-68 - Invite new participants to RDF Web Apps Working Group as soon as possible. [on Ivan Herman - due 2011-03-10].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-68 - Invite new participants to RDF Web Apps Working Group as soon as possible. [on Ivan Herman - due 2011-03-10].

16:00:11 <ShaneM> Ivan: Let's spend the time in the next weeks talking about RDFa Core and RDFa Core test suites so CR can be as short as possible.

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Ivan Herman: Let's spend the time in the next weeks talking about RDFa Core and RDFa Core test suites so CR can be as short as possible.

16:00:45 <manu> ACTION: Manu to ping people that have not responded to previous LC comments.

ACTION: Manu to ping people that have not responded to previous LC comments.

16:00:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-69 - Ping people that have not responded to previous LC comments. [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-03-10].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-69 - Ping people that have not responded to previous LC comments. [on Manu Sporny - due 2011-03-10].

16:00:47 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven

16:01:13 <Steven_> zakim, dial steven-617

Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617

16:01:13 <Zakim> ok, Steven_; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven_; the call is being made

16:01:14 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

16:01:43 <ivan> zakim, drop me

Ivan Herman: zakim, drop me

16:01:43 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan is being disconnected

16:01:43 <Zakim> -Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven

16:01:44 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

16:01:44 <Zakim> -manu

Zakim IRC Bot: -manu

16:01:46 <Zakim> -webr3

Zakim IRC Bot: -webr3

16:01:56 <Zakim> -ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM

16:02:00 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended

16:02:05 <Zakim> Attendees were Ivan, manu, ShaneM, Steven, webr3

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Ivan, manu, ShaneM, Steven, webr3



Formatted by CommonScribe