14:49:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/03-rdfa-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/02/03-rdfa-irc ←
14:49:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:49:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7332
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 7332 ←
14:49:34 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFa()10:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes ←
14:49:35 <trackbot> Meeting: RDFa Working Group Teleconference
14:49:35 <trackbot> Date: 03 February 2011
14:50:42 <manu> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jan/0156.html
14:50:44 <manu> Chair: Manu
14:51:14 <manu> Present: Ivan, Manu, Toby, Nathan, Steven, ShaneM, Knud
14:58:26 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 8 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has now started ←
14:58:33 <Zakim> +tinkster
Zakim IRC Bot: +tinkster ←
14:58:45 <tinkster> Zakim, mute me
Toby Inkster: Zakim, mute me ←
14:58:45 <Zakim> sorry, tinkster, muting is not permitted when only one person is present
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, tinkster, muting is not permitted when only one person is present ←
15:00:35 <Zakim> +??P14
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14 ←
15:00:39 <manu> zakim, I am ??P14
Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P14 ←
15:00:39 <Zakim> +manu; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +manu; got it ←
15:00:40 <tinkster> Zakim, mute me
Toby Inkster: Zakim, mute me ←
15:00:40 <Zakim> tinkster should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: tinkster should now be muted ←
15:01:12 <Zakim> + +539149aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +539149aaaa ←
15:01:23 <Zakim> +??P30
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P30 ←
15:01:24 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617
Steven Pemberton: zakim, dial steven-617 ←
15:01:27 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made ←
15:01:30 <webr3> Zakim, i am ??
Nathan Rixham: Zakim, i am ?? ←
15:01:32 <Knud> zakim, I am aaaa
Knud Möller: zakim, I am aaaa ←
15:01:33 <Zakim> +Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven ←
15:01:37 <Zakim> +webr3; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +webr3; got it ←
15:01:43 <Zakim> +Knud; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Knud; got it ←
15:03:04 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
15:03:04 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
15:03:06 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:03:18 <manu> Found this interesting - Microdata authoring/usability testing consisted of 6 people (some of the major design decisions were made from that one study): http://blog.whatwg.org/usability-testing-html5
Manu Sporny: Found this interesting - Microdata authoring/usability testing consisted of 6 people (some of the major design decisions were made from that one study): http://blog.whatwg.org/usability-testing-html5 ←
15:05:55 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
15:06:04 <ShaneM> zakim, ??P22 is ShaneM
Shane McCarron: zakim, ??P22 is ShaneM ←
15:06:04 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM; got it ←
15:07:32 <Steven> Scribe: Steven
(Scribe set to Steven Pemberton)
15:07:46 <manu> Topic: Quick updates
15:07:52 <tinkster> http://buzzword.org.uk/2011/Atom_plus_RDFa/spec.html
Toby Inkster: http://buzzword.org.uk/2011/Atom_plus_RDFa/spec.html ←
15:07:55 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Feb/0001.html
15:08:15 <Steven> Manu: Toby's working on an Atom+RDFa spec - just a heads-up
Manu Sporny: Toby's working on an Atom+RDFa spec - just a heads-up ←
15:08:21 <Steven> ... we might want to publish as a note
... we might want to publish as a note ←
15:08:37 <Steven> Ivan: I implement Toby's stuff already
Ivan Herman: I implement Toby's stuff already ←
15:08:39 <tinkster> Ivan++
Toby Inkster: Ivan++ ←
15:09:04 <manu> Topic: ISSUE-69: xml and xmlns prefixes in Default RDFa Profile
15:09:22 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/69
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/69 ←
15:09:54 <manu> Ivan's opinion: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jan/0124.html
Manu Sporny: Ivan's opinion: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jan/0124.html ←
15:10:00 <Steven> Ivan: I already gave my opinion
Ivan Herman: I already gave my opinion ←
15:10:09 <Steven> [Manu reads]
[Manu reads] ←
15:10:35 <Steven> Manu: You suggest xml and xmlns prefixes should be added
Manu Sporny: You suggest xml and xmlns prefixes should be added ←
15:10:36 <manu> xml -> http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace#
Manu Sporny: xml -> http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace# ←
15:10:38 <manu> xmlns -> http://www.w3.org/2000/xmlns/
Manu Sporny: xmlns -> http://www.w3.org/2000/xmlns/ ←
15:10:54 <tinkster> hmm, xmlns:xmlns="..." is illegal to declare
Toby Inkster: hmm, xmlns:xmlns="..." is illegal to declare ←
15:11:01 <tinkster> additionally, prefix="xmlns: ..." is not.
Toby Inkster: additionally, prefix="xmlns: ..." is not. ←
15:11:01 <Steven> Shane: It is illegal to redeclare the xmlns prefix
Shane McCarron: It is illegal to redeclare the xmlns prefix ←
15:11:16 <Steven> Ivan: I am in favour of declaring it
Ivan Herman: I am in favour of declaring it ←
15:11:27 <Steven> ... or we could declare it as an error
... or we could declare it as an error ←
15:11:37 <tinkster> also, xmlns:xml is legal to declare, provided you point it at the proper XML namespace.
Toby Inkster: also, xmlns:xml is legal to declare, provided you point it at the proper XML namespace. ←
15:11:48 <Steven> ... calling it an error makes sense
... calling it an error makes sense ←
15:11:52 <ShaneM> Namespaces in XML says: The prefix xml is by definition bound to the namespace name http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace. It MAY, but need not, be declared, and MUST NOT be bound to any other namespace name. Other prefixes MUST NOT be bound to this namespace name, and it MUST NOT be declared as the default namespace. The prefix xmlns is used only to declare namespace bindings and is by definition bound to the namespace name http://www.w3.org/2000/xmlns/. It
Shane McCarron: Namespaces in XML says: The prefix xml is by definition bound to the namespace name http://www.w3.org/XML/1998/namespace. It MAY, but need not, be declared, and MUST NOT be bound to any other namespace name. Other prefixes MUST NOT be bound to this namespace name, and it MUST NOT be declared as the default namespace. The prefix xmlns is used only to declare namespace bindings and is by definition bound to the namespace name http://www.w3.org/2000/xmlns/. It ←
15:12:12 <ivan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jan/0009.html
Ivan Herman: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jan/0009.html ←
15:12:42 <Steven> Ivan: Declaring them as illegal as prefixes might be cleaner
Ivan Herman: Declaring them as illegal as prefixes might be cleaner ←
15:12:54 <Steven> ... but it means an extra check
... but it means an extra check ←
15:13:39 <tinkster> RDFa 1.0 test suite test 0142 does already test that RDFa processors make this extra check.
Toby Inkster: RDFa 1.0 test suite test 0142 does already test that RDFa processors make this extra check. ←
15:14:23 <manu> TC 0142 is not a valid test, Toby?
Manu Sporny: TC 0142 is not a valid test, Toby? ←
15:14:36 <Steven> SHane: The XML Spec says that xmlns must not be declared
Shane McCarron: The XML Spec says that xmlns must not be declared ←
15:14:50 <Steven> Ivan: This is for CURIE prefixes
Ivan Herman: This is for CURIE prefixes ←
15:15:00 <Steven> ... it's not an XML issue, if you declare xmlns:xmlns or xmlns:xml to something invalid - that's the XML processors job to catch that.
... it's not an XML issue, if you declare xmlns:xmlns or xmlns:xml to something invalid - that's the XML processors job to catch that. ←
15:15:22 <Steven> ... the issue is what to do if I use them in a prefix attribute - in CURIEs.
... the issue is what to do if I use them in a prefix attribute - in CURIEs. ←
15:15:45 <Steven> Manu: Let's just declare xml and xmlns
Manu Sporny: Let's just declare xml and xmlns ←
15:16:01 <Steven> ... in the default profile
... in the default profile ←
15:16:01 <tinkster> http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/test-cases/xhtml1/0142.xhtml
Toby Inkster: http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/test-suite/test-cases/xhtml1/0142.xhtml ←
15:16:26 <Steven> Manu: Any objections?
Manu Sporny: Any objections? ←
15:16:29 <Steven> [none]
[none] ←
15:16:32 <manu> PROPOSAL: The RDFa Core 1.1 Default Profile should declare the 'xml' and 'xmlns' prefixes.
PROPOSED: The RDFa Core 1.1 Default Profile should declare the 'xml' and 'xmlns' prefixes. ←
15:16:34 <ShaneM> +1
Shane McCarron: +1 ←
15:16:41 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
15:16:42 <manu> +1
Manu Sporny: +1 ←
15:16:45 <Steven> +0
+0 ←
15:16:45 <tinkster> +1
Toby Inkster: +1 ←
15:16:48 <Knud> +1
Knud Möller: +1 ←
15:16:49 <webr3> +0
Nathan Rixham: +0 ←
15:17:13 <tinkster> (maybe +0... I don't especially care about this either way - just thought it needed discussing)
Toby Inkster: (maybe +0... I don't especially care about this either way - just thought it needed discussing) ←
15:17:23 <manu> RESOLVED: The RDFa Core 1.1 Default Profile should declare the 'xml' and 'xmlns' prefixes.
RESOLVED: The RDFa Core 1.1 Default Profile should declare the 'xml' and 'xmlns' prefixes. ←
15:17:31 <Steven> Steven: Don't feel strongly on this either way
Steven Pemberton: Don't feel strongly on this either way ←
15:17:37 <Steven> Nathan: Likewise
Nathan Rixham: Likewise ←
15:17:40 <manu> Topic: ISSUE-74: Host Language Conformance
15:17:45 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/74
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/74 ←
15:18:01 <trackbot> ISSUE-74 -- Host Language Conformance -- open
Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-74 -- Host Language Conformance -- open ←
15:18:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/74
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/74 ←
15:18:07 <tinkster> Zakim, unmute me
Toby Inkster: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:18:07 <Zakim> tinkster should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: tinkster should no longer be muted ←
15:19:48 <Steven> [Brief discussion on how to mark issues that have been handled and not yet closed]
[Brief discussion on how to mark issues that have been handled and not yet closed] ←
15:20:58 <Steven> Toby: Where is the divide between Core and the host language?
Toby Inkster: Where is the divide between Core and the host language? ←
15:21:37 <Steven> ... special handling of body and head, etc
... special handling of body and head, etc ←
15:22:13 <Steven> ... My suggestion is that the host can do what it wants
... My suggestion is that the host can do what it wants ←
15:22:42 <Steven> ... if it wants to provide an automated way to create an RDFa friendly version
... if it wants to provide an automated way to create an RDFa friendly version ←
15:23:09 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:23:15 <manu> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
15:23:47 <Steven> Ivan: Core uses @href and @src as part of its processing, though these are HTML attributes
Ivan Herman: Core uses @href and @src as part of its processing, though these are HTML attributes ←
15:24:28 <manu> SVG uses xlink:href ?
Manu Sporny: SVG uses xlink:href ? ←
15:24:30 <manu> http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/linking.html#Links
Manu Sporny: http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/linking.html#Links ←
15:24:31 <Steven> ... so the clean way in an ideal world is some sort of automatic means of specifying which attr represents what in the processing
... so the clean way in an ideal world is some sort of automatic means of specifying which attr represents what in the processing ←
15:24:35 <Steven> q+
q+ ←
15:25:06 <ShaneM> q+ to discuss href / src
Shane McCarron: q+ to discuss href / src ←
15:25:35 <Steven> Ivan: On the GRDDL thing, @profile is also used by GRDDL (and others)
Ivan Herman: On the GRDDL thing, @profile is also used by GRDDL (and others) ←
15:26:26 <Steven> ... so there is a potential clash, which would make me uncomfortable about mentioning it explicitely
... so there is a potential clash, which would make me uncomfortable about mentioning it explicitely ←
15:26:47 <manu> ack Steven
Manu Sporny: ack Steven ←
15:27:12 <manu> Steven: Allowing host languages to do special stuff means that we don't have generic RDFa processors anymore.
Steven Pemberton: Allowing host languages to do special stuff means that we don't have generic RDFa processors anymore. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:27:32 <manu> Ivan: That's what we already have, though, right? We have to do special things for XHTML and XML...
Ivan Herman: That's what we already have, though, right? We have to do special things for XHTML and XML... [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:27:54 <manu> Steven: We can have one or two special cases, we don't want to allow everything to be a special case.
Steven Pemberton: We can have one or two special cases, we don't want to allow everything to be a special case. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:28:07 <manu> Ivan: HTML has historical baggage, and we could just say that.
Ivan Herman: HTML has historical baggage, and we could just say that. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:28:29 <Steven> Toby: That's what I'm saying; quirks are hard to handle in a general-purpose system
Toby Inkster: That's what I'm saying; quirks are hard to handle in a general-purpose system ←
15:28:31 <manu> Toby: The more special cases a host language puts in, the less likely a generic RDFa processor is going to work.
Toby Inkster: The more special cases a host language puts in, the less likely a generic RDFa processor is going to work. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:29:48 <Steven> Manu: On the other hand, if host-langauges use special stuff they are less likely to be used since they won't work with generic systems
Manu Sporny: On the other hand, if host-langauges use special stuff they are less likely to be used since they won't work with generic systems ←
15:29:58 <tinkster> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jan/0141.html
Toby Inkster: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jan/0141.html ←
15:30:05 <manu> ack ShaneM
Manu Sporny: ack ShaneM ←
15:30:05 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to discuss href / src
Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM, you wanted to discuss href / src ←
15:30:09 <Steven> q?
q? ←
15:30:56 <Steven> Shane: I appreciate the concern, and we say that @href and @src are optional, and mention them explicitely in core as being optional
Shane McCarron: I appreciate the concern, and we say that @href and @src are optional, and mention them explicitely in core as being optional ←
15:30:57 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-core/Overview-src.html#s_syntax
Shane McCarron: http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/sources/rdfa-core/Overview-src.html#s_syntax ←
15:31:24 <Steven> Ivan: So if I have a host lang with @href and @src, then the relecant host-lang spec must say that they use @href?
Ivan Herman: So if I have a host lang with @href and @src, then the relecant host-lang spec must say that they use @href? ←
15:32:30 <Steven> Manu: I would say just process @src and @href
Manu Sporny: I would say just process @src and @href ←
15:32:38 <Steven> Ivan: But what does the spec say?
Ivan Herman: But what does the spec say? ←
15:33:10 <Steven> Shane: I'm not sure if I agree with you Manu, we don't know what those attributes mean in another host language
Shane McCarron: I'm not sure if I agree with you Manu, we don't know what those attributes mean in another host language ←
15:33:21 <Steven> Ivan: We define it!
Ivan Herman: We define it! ←
15:34:10 <manu> q+ to ask what other languages include href/src in a different way?
Manu Sporny: q+ to ask what other languages include href/src in a different way? ←
15:34:40 <Steven> Steven: I'm with Shane on this
Steven Pemberton: I'm with Shane on this ←
15:34:53 <Steven> Ivan: But the spec says otherwise
Ivan Herman: But the spec says otherwise ←
15:34:58 <webr3> but href="lksdf lskdfj lskdjf lsd fj" could be valid for some +xml type, what happens when RDFa processor finds this?
Nathan Rixham: but href="lksdf lskdfj lskdjf lsd fj" could be valid for some +xml type, what happens when RDFa processor finds this? ←
15:35:01 <Steven> Shane: Only for host languages that support them
Shane McCarron: Only for host languages that support them ←
15:35:12 <tinkster> Zakim, mute me
Toby Inkster: Zakim, mute me ←
15:35:12 <Zakim> tinkster should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: tinkster should now be muted ←
15:35:19 <Steven> Shane: Section 7.5
Shane McCarron: Section 7.5 ←
15:35:38 <ShaneM> This specification defines processing rules for optional attributes that may not be present in all Host Languages (e.g., @href). If these attributes are not supported in the Host Language, then the corresponding processing rules are not relevant for that language.
Shane McCarron: This specification defines processing rules for optional attributes that may not be present in all Host Languages (e.g., @href). If these attributes are not supported in the Host Language, then the corresponding processing rules are not relevant for that language. ←
15:35:57 <Steven> q+
q+ ←
15:36:27 <webr3> q+ to say not only must it be defined, but it must be defined in a compatible way
Nathan Rixham: q+ to say not only must it be defined, but it must be defined in a compatible way ←
15:36:31 <tinkster> Atom has @src (or maybe @source?)
Toby Inkster: Atom has @src (or maybe @source?) ←
15:36:43 <Steven> Ivan: Atom has href, so a generic processor has to decide whether to handle href or not
Ivan Herman: Atom has href, so a generic processor has to decide whether to handle href or not ←
15:37:07 <Steven> ManU: I agree in the sense that I think that the design is pure, however
Manu Sporny: I agree in the sense that I think that the design is pure, however ←
15:37:31 <ShaneM> q+ to argue with manu
Shane McCarron: q+ to argue with manu ←
15:37:31 <Steven> ... ... I know of no other languages that use @href or @src otherwise
... ... I know of no other languages that use @href or @src otherwise ←
15:37:32 <tinkster> Yes, Atom has <content src> - roughly equivalent to <iframe src> in HTML.
Toby Inkster: Yes, Atom has <content src> - roughly equivalent to <iframe src> in HTML. ←
15:38:07 <Steven> Ivan: I agree with href, but src? Not so sure.
Ivan Herman: I agree with href, but src? Not so sure. ←
15:38:25 <tinkster> <iframe src> can have children.
Toby Inkster: <iframe src> can have children. ←
15:39:07 <Steven> Shane: In a generic XML grammar, I have crafted the choice of names. Who knows what I mean by @src.
Shane McCarron: In a generic XML grammar, I have crafted the choice of names. Who knows what I mean by @src. ←
15:39:15 <ShaneM> q- ShaneM
Shane McCarron: q- ShaneM ←
15:39:39 <manu> ack manu
Manu Sporny: ack manu ←
15:39:39 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask what other languages include href/src in a different way?
Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to ask what other languages include href/src in a different way? ←
15:39:45 <manu> ack Steven
Manu Sporny: ack Steven ←
15:39:55 <manu> ack webr3
Manu Sporny: ack webr3 ←
15:39:55 <Zakim> webr3, you wanted to say not only must it be defined, but it must be defined in a compatible way
Zakim IRC Bot: webr3, you wanted to say not only must it be defined, but it must be defined in a compatible way ←
15:39:56 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:40:00 <tinkster> I say, support @href and @src in generic XML. If the host language uses those attributes for some incompatible purpose then it can not become an RDFa host language.
Toby Inkster: I say, support @href and @src in generic XML. If the host language uses those attributes for some incompatible purpose then it can not become an RDFa host language. ←
15:40:05 <Steven> Manu: We can't depend on mime type or @version, so if we don't know it is an HTML doc, we will fall back to XML processing
Manu Sporny: We can't depend on mime type or @version, so if we don't know it is an HTML doc, we will fall back to XML processing ←
15:40:34 <Steven> Nathan: We need to say something specific
Nathan Rixham: We need to say something specific ←
15:40:53 <Steven> Manu: But what do you do when you don't know the type of doc?
Manu Sporny: But what do you do when you don't know the type of doc? ←
15:41:05 <Steven> Shane: XML, that's what the doc says
Shane McCarron: XML, that's what the doc says ←
15:41:13 <manu> q?
Manu Sporny: q? ←
15:41:16 <manu> ack ivan
Manu Sporny: ack ivan ←
15:41:17 <Steven> ... excellent point
... excellent point ←
15:41:35 <webr3> * and @rel
Nathan Rixham: * and @rel ←
15:41:50 <tinkster> (The same goes for other attributes too - @resource, @about, etc...)
Toby Inkster: (The same goes for other attributes too - @resource, @about, etc...) ←
15:42:38 <Steven> Ivan: When designing my XML language, I should design with care
Ivan Herman: When designing my XML language, I should design with care ←
15:42:43 <webr3> q+ to ask if these aren't namespaced in +xml langs?
Nathan Rixham: q+ to ask if these aren't namespaced in +xml langs? ←
15:42:54 <manu> ack webr3
Manu Sporny: ack webr3 ←
15:42:54 <Zakim> webr3, you wanted to ask if these aren't namespaced in +xml langs?
Zakim IRC Bot: webr3, you wanted to ask if these aren't namespaced in +xml langs? ←
15:43:09 <tinkster> no, they're not.
Toby Inkster: no, they're not. ←
15:43:24 <Zakim> -tinkster
Zakim IRC Bot: -tinkster ←
15:43:54 <Zakim> + +1.785.583.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.785.583.aabb ←
15:44:04 <tinkster> Zakim, aabb is me.
Toby Inkster: Zakim, aabb is me. ←
15:44:04 <Zakim> +tinkster; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tinkster; got it ←
15:44:05 <manu> Nathan: Are RDFa attributes in a namespace?
Nathan Rixham: Are RDFa attributes in a namespace? [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:44:12 <ShaneM> we say: If the Host Language uses XML Namespaces [XML-NAMES], the attributes in this specification should be defined in 'no namespace'. (e.g., when the attributes are used on elements in the Host Language's namespace, they can be used with no qualifying prefix: <myml:myElement property="next">).
Shane McCarron: we say: If the Host Language uses XML Namespaces [XML-NAMES], the attributes in this specification should be defined in 'no namespace'. (e.g., when the attributes are used on elements in the Host Language's namespace, they can be used with no qualifying prefix: <myml:myElement property="next">). ←
15:44:16 <manu> Manu: No they're not - they're in the null namespace.
Manu Sporny: No they're not - they're in the null namespace. [ Scribe Assist by Manu Sporny ] ←
15:44:18 <Steven> Steven: Yes according to XHTML+RDFa
Steven Pemberton: Yes according to XHTML+RDFa ←
15:44:38 <Steven> ... Modularization allows them to be namespaced
... Modularization allows them to be namespaced ←
15:44:58 <tinkster> Unless an attribute has a colon in it, it's not namespaced.
Toby Inkster: Unless an attribute has a colon in it, it's not namespaced. ←
15:45:02 <Steven> Shane: host language attributes are normally not namespaced
Shane McCarron: host language attributes are normally not namespaced ←
15:45:22 <Steven> Steven: But you are allowed to say xhtml:about
Steven Pemberton: But you are allowed to say xhtml:about ←
15:45:33 <tinkster> Colon-less elements can be in a namespace, if there's a default one defined. But that doesn't apply to attributes.
Toby Inkster: Colon-less elements can be in a namespace, if there's a default one defined. But that doesn't apply to attributes. ←
15:45:35 <ShaneM> steven - I don't think that XHTML+RDFa permits namespaced attributes.
Shane McCarron: steven - I don't think that XHTML+RDFa permits namespaced attributes. ←
15:45:57 <tinkster> q+ to talk about ODF
Toby Inkster: q+ to talk about ODF ←
15:46:04 <manu> ack tinkster
Manu Sporny: ack tinkster ←
15:46:04 <Zakim> tinkster, you wanted to talk about ODF
Zakim IRC Bot: tinkster, you wanted to talk about ODF ←
15:46:27 <Steven> Toby: I thought we had language that allows them to be namespaced
Toby Inkster: I thought we had language that allows them to be namespaced ←
15:46:39 <manu> If the Host Language uses XML Namespaces [XML-NAMES], the attributes in this specification should be incorporated in the namespace of the Host Language.
Manu Sporny: If the Host Language uses XML Namespaces [XML-NAMES], the attributes in this specification should be incorporated in the namespace of the Host Language. ←
15:46:46 <Steven> Steven: Isn't it an excellent solution to this problem?
Steven Pemberton: Isn't it an excellent solution to this problem? ←
15:48:19 <Steven> Manu: It could be an optional feature
Manu Sporny: It could be an optional feature ←
15:48:53 <Steven> ... If we have this issue, we need to solve it
... If we have this issue, we need to solve it ←
15:48:54 <tinkster> My processor allows a host language specification to put RDFa attributes into a namespace, but currently the only host language I use it for is ODF.
Toby Inkster: My processor allows a host language specification to put RDFa attributes into a namespace, but currently the only host language I use it for is ODF. ←
15:49:10 <Steven> Steven: There you go!
Steven Pemberton: There you go! ←
15:49:27 <Steven> ... ODF does namespace the attributes
... ODF does namespace the attributes ←
15:50:09 <Steven> Ivan: My original proposal holds
Ivan Herman: My original proposal holds ←
15:50:21 <Steven> Manu: We need a future agenda item on namespacing attributes
Manu Sporny: We need a future agenda item on namespacing attributes ←
15:50:59 <manu> ISSUE: Can RDFa attributes be namespaced?
ISSUE: Can RDFa attributes be namespaced? ←
15:51:00 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-82 - Can RDFa attributes be namespaced? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/82/edit .
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ISSUE-82 - Can RDFa attributes be namespaced? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/82/edit . ←
15:51:13 <ShaneM> FYI - this is the text that Steven is alluding to: Each of the attributes defined in an XHTML attribute collection is available for use when their corresponding module is included in an XHTML Host Language or an XHTML Integration Set. In such a situation, the attributes are available for use in the definition of elements that are NOT in the XHTML namespace when they are referenced using their namespace-qualified identifier (e.g., xhtml:class). The semantics o
Shane McCarron: FYI - this is the text that Steven is alluding to: Each of the attributes defined in an XHTML attribute collection is available for use when their corresponding module is included in an XHTML Host Language or an XHTML Integration Set. In such a situation, the attributes are available for use in the definition of elements that are NOT in the XHTML namespace when they are referenced using their namespace-qualified identifier (e.g., xhtml:class). The semantics o ←
15:51:41 <Steven> Manu: Back to Jeni's issue, Ivan is suggesting adding @src and @href to core
Manu Sporny: Back to Jeni's issue, Ivan is suggesting adding @src and @href to core ←
15:52:47 <Steven> Steven: This is exactly what the XML people were afraid of, HTML dirtying XML
Steven Pemberton: This is exactly what the XML people were afraid of, HTML dirtying XML ←
15:53:15 <manu> q+ to discuss whether RDFa is a "dirty" language
Manu Sporny: q+ to discuss whether RDFa is a "dirty" language ←
15:53:29 <Steven> Shane: The point is that we should be aware of pushback from XML people
Shane McCarron: The point is that we should be aware of pushback from XML people ←
15:53:44 <Steven> Ivan: We do this holding our noses, it comes from historical baggage
Ivan Herman: We do this holding our noses, it comes from historical baggage ←
15:53:51 <manu> ack manu
Manu Sporny: ack manu ←
15:53:51 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to discuss whether RDFa is a "dirty" language
Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to discuss whether RDFa is a "dirty" language ←
15:54:13 <tinkster> For anyone designing an XML language, who doesn't like @src and @href... don't make your XML language into an RDFa host language. Problem solved.
Toby Inkster: For anyone designing an XML language, who doesn't like @src and @href... don't make your XML language into an RDFa host language. Problem solved. ←
15:54:27 <Steven> Manu: We have made decisions that are not great for people who like pure languages
Manu Sporny: We have made decisions that are not great for people who like pure languages ←
15:54:44 <Steven> ... this is another of those decisions
... this is another of those decisions ←
15:54:55 <Steven> ... it is the best compromise
... it is the best compromise ←
15:55:13 <manu> PROPOSAL: Add @href and @src to RDFa Core.
PROPOSED: Add @href and @src to RDFa Core. ←
15:55:15 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
15:55:18 <Steven> +0
+0 ←
15:55:19 <tinkster> +1
Toby Inkster: +1 ←
15:55:20 <manu> +1
Manu Sporny: +1 ←
15:55:26 <ShaneM> NOTE - They are already in core - we are removing their optionality.
Shane McCarron: NOTE - They are already in core - we are removing their optionality. ←
15:55:28 <ShaneM> +0
Shane McCarron: +0 ←
15:55:35 <Knud> +1
Knud Möller: +1 ←
15:55:55 <webr3> +0
Nathan Rixham: +0 ←
15:56:09 <Steven> Nathan: Not sure. Need to think longer
Nathan Rixham: Not sure. Need to think longer ←
15:56:09 <tinkster> I think a host language spec should still be able to make their use non-conformant. However, an RDFa processor encountering them should still use them.
Toby Inkster: I think a host language spec should still be able to make their use non-conformant. However, an RDFa processor encountering them should still use them. ←
15:56:33 <Steven> Manu: We will go through another last call; reraise then if you have an issue with it
Manu Sporny: We will go through another last call; reraise then if you have an issue with it ←
15:56:37 <manu> RESOLVED: Add @href and @src to RDFa Core (we are removing their optionality).
RESOLVED: Add @href and @src to RDFa Core (we are removing their optionality). ←
15:56:47 <Steven> Shane: Please try to raise issues now, because we don't want a third last call!
Shane McCarron: Please try to raise issues now, because we don't want a third last call! ←
15:57:53 <Zakim> -tinkster
Zakim IRC Bot: -tinkster ←
15:58:00 <Zakim> -Knud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Knud ←
15:58:16 <Zakim> -Steven
Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven ←
15:58:18 <Zakim> -webr3
Zakim IRC Bot: -webr3 ←
16:01:12 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?
Manu Sporny: zakim, who is on the call? ←
16:01:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see manu, Ivan, ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see manu, Ivan, ShaneM ←
16:05:23 <ivan> zakim, drop me
Ivan Herman: zakim, drop me ←
16:05:23 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan is being disconnected ←
16:05:24 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
16:05:26 <Zakim> -manu
Zakim IRC Bot: -manu ←
16:05:30 <manu> zakim, room for 4
Manu Sporny: zakim, room for 4 ←
16:05:30 <Zakim> I don't understand 'room for 4', manu
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'room for 4', manu ←
16:05:36 <ShaneM> zakim, drop me
Shane McCarron: zakim, drop me ←
16:05:36 <Zakim> ShaneM is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: ShaneM is being disconnected ←
16:05:38 <Zakim> SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFa()10:00AM has ended ←
16:05:39 <Zakim> Attendees were tinkster, manu, +539149aaaa, Steven, webr3, Knud, Ivan, ShaneM, +1.785.583.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were tinkster, manu, +539149aaaa, Steven, webr3, Knud, Ivan, ShaneM, +1.785.583.aabb ←
16:06:02 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
16:06:03 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
16:06:06 <Zakim> Team_(rdfa)16:05Z has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: Team_(rdfa)16:05Z has now started ←
16:06:06 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
16:06:19 <Zakim> +??P4
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4 ←
16:06:23 <manu> zakim, I am ??P4
Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P4 ←
16:06:23 <Zakim> +manu; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +manu; got it ←
16:06:27 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
16:06:34 <webr3> Zakim, i am ??P13
Nathan Rixham: Zakim, i am ??P13 ←
16:06:34 <Zakim> +webr3; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +webr3; got it ←
16:07:41 <manu> scribenick: Manu
(Scribe set to Manu Sporny)
16:09:08 <Zakim> +ShaneM
Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM ←
16:09:55 <manu> Topic: ISSUE-76: RDFa Profiles
16:10:00 <manu> http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/76
http://www.w3.org/2010/02/rdfa/track/issues/76 ←
16:11:05 <manu> webr3: We've already resolved the first of Jeni's issues
Nathan Rixham: We've already resolved the first of Jeni's issues ←
16:11:05 <webr3> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jan/0143.html
Nathan Rixham: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jan/0143.html ←
16:12:35 <manu> Nathan: There are two issues
Nathan Rixham: There are two issues ←
16:13:12 <manu> Nathan: What is the range of rdfa:prefix and rdfa:term?
Nathan Rixham: What is the range of rdfa:prefix and rdfa:term? ←
16:13:19 <manu> Shane: What does that mean?
Shane McCarron: What does that mean? ←
16:14:10 <manu> Ivan: In RDF, via OWL inferencing, having a range definition is helpful - but there really isn't a way to say that in a "hint"
Ivan Herman: In RDF, via OWL inferencing, having a range definition is helpful - but there really isn't a way to say that in a "hint" ←
16:14:40 <manu> Ivan: Maybe we should remove the range triples from the vocabulary definition.
Ivan Herman: Maybe we should remove the range triples from the vocabulary definition. ←
16:14:52 <manu> Ivan: It doesn't have any effect on our implementations
Ivan Herman: It doesn't have any effect on our implementations ←
16:16:14 <manu> ACTION: Ivan to remove the range specification from the vocabulary definition for RDFa Profiles.
ACTION: Ivan to remove the range specification from the vocabulary definition for RDFa Profiles. ←
16:16:14 <trackbot> Created ACTION-57 - Remove the range specification from the vocabulary definition for RDFa Profiles. [on Ivan Herman - due 2011-02-10].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-57 - Remove the range specification from the vocabulary definition for RDFa Profiles. [on Ivan Herman - due 2011-02-10]. ←
16:17:19 <manu> Ivan: I generate the TURTLE file out of an RDFa file - so it included metadata about the onology, but having that as part of the REC appendix does more harm than good.
Ivan Herman: I generate the TURTLE file out of an RDFa file - so it included metadata about the onology, but having that as part of the REC appendix does more harm than good. ←
16:17:56 <manu> Nathan: Ok, second issue here - Jeni is asking about the link relations from HTML5 - if they're in the profile or not.
Nathan Rixham: Ok, second issue here - Jeni is asking about the link relations from HTML5 - if they're in the profile or not. ←
16:18:03 <webr3> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jan/0143.html
Nathan Rixham: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdfa-wg/2011Jan/0143.html ←
16:19:13 <manu> Ivan: The default profile would include the rel-values defined by the HTML5 mechanism.
Ivan Herman: The default profile would include the rel-values defined by the HTML5 mechanism. ←
16:19:41 <manu> Ivan: There a bunch of prefixes and there are a bunch of terms - we take what XHTML already has plus the HTML5 rel-values registry.
Ivan Herman: There a bunch of prefixes and there are a bunch of terms - we take what XHTML already has plus the HTML5 rel-values registry. ←
16:19:54 <tinkster> We need to go to Rec before HTMLL5 does (est 2022)
Toby Inkster: We need to go to Rec before HTMLL5 does (est 2022) ←
16:20:14 <manu> Manu: Are we going to add the IETF link types registry.
Manu Sporny: Are we going to add the IETF link types registry. ←
16:20:32 <manu> Ivan: Yes, I think so.
Ivan Herman: Yes, I think so. ←
16:21:01 <manu> Ivan: I think our response should be - to the best of our knowledge, the HTML WG has not decided how they're going to manage these rel values, not everybody is in favor of the wiki approach.
Ivan Herman: I think our response should be - to the best of our knowledge, the HTML WG has not decided how they're going to manage these rel values, not everybody is in favor of the wiki approach. ←
16:21:14 <manu> Nathan: Larry Masinter has an action to look at this
Nathan Rixham: Larry Masinter has an action to look at this ←
16:21:47 <manu> Ivan: I think that what we ought to say is that the default profile will have a policy for the default profile update - that policy will have to take into account whatever the HTML WG will use.
Ivan Herman: I think that what we ought to say is that the default profile will have a policy for the default profile update - that policy will have to take into account whatever the HTML WG will use. ←
16:21:55 <manu> Manu: We also have to take into account what the IETF group decides.
Manu Sporny: We also have to take into account what the IETF group decides. ←
16:22:27 <manu> Nathan: We can't put the values in the RDFa default profile - they have completely different semantic meanings.
Nathan Rixham: We can't put the values in the RDFa default profile - they have completely different semantic meanings. ←
16:22:37 <tinkster> IETF registry can change very rapidly. RDFa profile is supposed to be pretty stable.
Toby Inkster: IETF registry can change very rapidly. RDFa profile is supposed to be pretty stable. ←
16:23:23 <manu> Nathan: none of the HTML5 rels don't have any use in RDFa - they'll create incorrect triples because the semantic meaning is different.
Nathan Rixham: none of the HTML5 rels don't have any use in RDFa - they'll create incorrect triples because the semantic meaning is different. ←
16:23:43 <manu> Ivan: RDFa as it is defined today already generates triples for "stylesheet", and "next" and "previous".
Ivan Herman: RDFa as it is defined today already generates triples for "stylesheet", and "next" and "previous". ←
16:23:48 <manu> Shane: But, they're also not wrong.
Shane McCarron: But, they're also not wrong. ←
16:24:38 <manu> Manu: I don't hear a clear direction forward.
Manu Sporny: I don't hear a clear direction forward. ←
16:25:13 <manu> Nathan: HTML5 has very specific meanings for its rel-values... for example if you do rel="help" it is associated with the paragraph, not the document.
Nathan Rixham: HTML5 has very specific meanings for its rel-values... for example if you do rel="help" it is associated with the paragraph, not the document. ←
16:26:14 <manu> Nathan: It appears that this isn't a break... they've always been this way. They were not always defined as a relationship w/ the document.
Nathan Rixham: It appears that this isn't a break... they've always been this way. They were not always defined as a relationship w/ the document. ←
16:26:56 <manu> Nathan: I thought that @rel was a relationship between the document and the href.
Nathan Rixham: I thought that @rel was a relationship between the document and the href. ←
16:27:33 <manu> Nathan: but it's really a key-value pair, and you have to figure out what the subject is based on the rel-value.
Nathan Rixham: but it's really a key-value pair, and you have to figure out what the subject is based on the rel-value. ←
16:28:23 <manu> Ivan: This says, none of the values in HTML5 should be included in the default profile.
Ivan Herman: This says, none of the values in HTML5 should be included in the default profile. ←
16:29:06 <manu> Ivan: I see two consequences, if we decide to do it this way, one of the consequences is a backwards-compatibility issue. Those were defined by RDFa 1.0 to generate triples. If we don't do that, we're breaking backwards-compat - even if the breaking of the BC is harmless.
Ivan Herman: I see two consequences, if we decide to do it this way, one of the consequences is a backwards-compatibility issue. Those were defined by RDFa 1.0 to generate triples. If we don't do that, we're breaking backwards-compat - even if the breaking of the BC is harmless. ←
16:29:23 <manu> Ivan: There will be a non-empty intersection between rel-values in HTML5 and the default RDFa Profile.
Ivan Herman: There will be a non-empty intersection between rel-values in HTML5 and the default RDFa Profile. ←
16:29:26 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/#relValues
Shane McCarron: http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/#relValues ←
16:30:00 <manu> Ivan: The other consequence is the notion of a default vocabulary URI - because if we have a @rel value term that is not defined, we use the default vocabulary URI.
Ivan Herman: The other consequence is the notion of a default vocabulary URI - because if we have a @rel value term that is not defined, we use the default vocabulary URI. ←
16:30:15 <manu> Ivan: A profile can set a default vocabulary, but we don't have a default vocabulary by default.
Ivan Herman: A profile can set a default vocabulary, but we don't have a default vocabulary by default. ←
16:30:16 <tinkster> HTML5's rel=help breaks back-compat with HTML 4's rel=help.
Toby Inkster: HTML5's rel=help breaks back-compat with HTML 4's rel=help. ←
16:30:37 <ShaneM> Our spec says, for example, help Refers to a resource offering help (more information, links to other sources of information, etc.)
Shane McCarron: Our spec says, for example, help Refers to a resource offering help (more information, links to other sources of information, etc.) ←
16:31:15 <manu> Nathan: There is another way to handle this, dont' know how it can be codified yet, but if all of the rels for the terms were associated with a blank node, we would be doing the correct thing.
Nathan Rixham: There is another way to handle this, dont' know how it can be codified yet, but if all of the rels for the terms were associated with a blank node, we would be doing the correct thing. ←
16:32:28 <tinkster> I assert that if resource H offers help for paragraph P, and paragraph P is contained within document D, then it is also true that resource H offers help for document D. So our triple is still correct.
Toby Inkster: I assert that if resource H offers help for paragraph P, and paragraph P is contained within document D, then it is also true that resource H offers help for document D. So our triple is still correct. ←
16:32:46 <manu> Manu: Well, those triples are more or less useless - because you just know the k-v pair exists in the document... not very helpful.
Manu Sporny: Well, those triples are more or less useless - because you just know the k-v pair exists in the document... not very helpful. ←
16:33:18 <tinkster> Besides which, the microdata spec includes a mapping of rel=help to RDF, and their mapping is identical to ours.
Toby Inkster: Besides which, the microdata spec includes a mapping of rel=help to RDF, and their mapping is identical to ours. ←
16:33:41 <webr3> tobyink, the trouble is, that you say it relatate to the URI of the document/representation whatever - but if a subject is already set, RDFa will relate it to that..
Nathan Rixham: tobyink, the trouble is, that you say it relatate to the URI of the document/representation whatever - but if a subject is already set, RDFa will relate it to that.. ←
16:35:11 <manu> Ivan: Outside of RDFa usage, @rel values were used outside the header, right?
Ivan Herman: Outside of RDFa usage, @rel values were used outside the header, right? ←
16:35:29 <manu> Nathan: People are increasingly using things like rel="homepage"
Nathan Rixham: People are increasingly using things like rel="homepage" ←
16:35:48 <tinkster> true, but (especially if they've used @about) in these cases it's likely that the author knows what they're doing, and the RDFa interpretation is probably correct.
Toby Inkster: true, but (especially if they've used @about) in these cases it's likely that the author knows what they're doing, and the RDFa interpretation is probably correct. ←
16:36:06 <manu> Ivan: Then the only way forward is to cut the bridges, and if people want terms in RDFa, they must be in the default profile.
Ivan Herman: Then the only way forward is to cut the bridges, and if people want terms in RDFa, they must be in the default profile. ←
16:37:16 <manu> Ivan: We should maintain the terms that we created in the past, we do not consider HTML5 relations that do not make sense in RDFa (the ones where the subjects are not known or have a strange algorithm for discovering the subject)
Ivan Herman: We should maintain the terms that we created in the past, we do not consider HTML5 relations that do not make sense in RDFa (the ones where the subjects are not known or have a strange algorithm for discovering the subject) ←
16:37:45 <manu> Ivan: Don't see any other way out of this - any solution than that seems like a complicated hack.
Ivan Herman: Don't see any other way out of this - any solution than that seems like a complicated hack. ←
16:39:50 <manu> Shane: If we have a default profile, and the default profile doesn't include a term like "coffeecup", it's not going to be in the default profile. If I do that in an XML+RDFa document, nothing is going to happen.
Shane McCarron: If we have a default profile, and the default profile doesn't include a term like "coffeecup", it's not going to be in the default profile. If I do that in an XML+RDFa document, nothing is going to happen. ←
16:40:40 <manu> Ivan: But it goes a bit deeper than that - if I put that in an HTML5 document and use the default profile, that profile doesn't include "coffeecup" that term will not be resolved.
Ivan Herman: But it goes a bit deeper than that - if I put that in an HTML5 document and use the default profile, that profile doesn't include "coffeecup" that term will not be resolved. ←
16:41:22 <ShaneM> http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/#relValues
Shane McCarron: http://www.w3.org/TR/rdfa-syntax/#relValues ←
16:41:24 <manu> Shane: Technically, we're inheriting everything in RDFa 1.0 (all the terms)
Shane McCarron: Technically, we're inheriting everything in RDFa 1.0 (all the terms) ←
16:43:09 <manu> Ivan: Regardless of this issue, we need to have an XPointer-like policy to register terms and prefixes.
Ivan Herman: Regardless of this issue, we need to have an XPointer-like policy to register terms and prefixes. ←
16:43:19 <webr3> JeniT adds: "Or will the profile for HTML5 set a default vocabulary and thus possibly interpret NMTOKENs that should be ignored as CURIEs?"
Nathan Rixham: JeniT adds: "Or will the profile for HTML5 set a default vocabulary and thus possibly interpret NMTOKENs that should be ignored as CURIEs?" ←
16:43:56 <manu> Ivan: If some of the HTML5 terms make sense, someone is going to have to go through the same mechanism (the XPointer mechanism) to register the rel values.
Ivan Herman: If some of the HTML5 terms make sense, someone is going to have to go through the same mechanism (the XPointer mechanism) to register the rel values. ←
16:45:14 <manu> Shane: Does Microdata use @rel?
Shane McCarron: Does Microdata use @rel? ←
16:45:16 <manu> Ivan: No
Ivan Herman: No ←
16:45:23 <manu> Nathan: But, Microformats does
Nathan Rixham: But, Microformats does ←
16:46:18 <manu> Nathan: Do we have a default vocabulary URI?
Nathan Rixham: Do we have a default vocabulary URI? ←
16:47:00 <tinkster> We don't have a default vocab URI. Adding one breaks microformats quite badly.
Toby Inkster: We don't have a default vocab URI. Adding one breaks microformats quite badly. ←
16:47:04 <manu> Manu: no, we don't
Manu Sporny: no, we don't ←
16:47:38 <manu> Nathan: Then how do we inherit RDFa 1.0's terms?
Nathan Rixham: Then how do we inherit RDFa 1.0's terms? ←
16:47:47 <manu> Ivan: In RDFa 1.0, they were a list of terms in the spec.
Ivan Herman: In RDFa 1.0, they were a list of terms in the spec. ←
16:47:54 <manu> Ivan: In RDFa 1.1, they are in the default profile.
Ivan Herman: In RDFa 1.1, they are in the default profile. ←
16:48:32 <manu> Nathan: If in RDFa 1.0 was it the string terms or the URI terms that we inherited?
Nathan Rixham: If in RDFa 1.0 was it the string terms or the URI terms that we inherited? ←
16:48:55 <manu> Nathan: In RDFa 1.0 when a term is discovered, do we go from one string to a URI.
Nathan Rixham: In RDFa 1.0 when a term is discovered, do we go from one string to a URI. ←
16:50:03 <manu> Ivan: They have to be the same triples, that's what the charter says.
Ivan Herman: They have to be the same triples, that's what the charter says. ←
16:56:27 <manu> ACTION: Ivan to raise backwards-compat issue related to HTML5 rel values with W3M.
(No events recorded for 6 minutes)
ACTION: Ivan to raise backwards-compat issue related to HTML5 rel values with W3M. ←
16:56:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-58 - Raise backwards-compat issue related to HTML5 rel values with W3M. [on Ivan Herman - due 2011-02-10].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-58 - Raise backwards-compat issue related to HTML5 rel values with W3M. [on Ivan Herman - due 2011-02-10]. ←
16:56:46 <manu> Nathan: We don't want to keep backwards compat w/ an old bug...
Nathan Rixham: We don't want to keep backwards compat w/ an old bug... ←
16:57:04 <manu> Ivan: It's not a bug, I don't think that's right. HTML5 looked at the terms and changed the semantics.
Ivan Herman: It's not a bug, I don't think that's right. HTML5 looked at the terms and changed the semantics. ←
16:58:08 <manu> Shane: We could examine all of these terms, but do we agree that some of them are still okay. Like rel="license", is that okay?
Shane McCarron: We could examine all of these terms, but do we agree that some of them are still okay. Like rel="license", is that okay? ←
16:59:29 <ShaneM> http://wiki.creativecommons.org/RDFa
Shane McCarron: http://wiki.creativecommons.org/RDFa ←
17:00:22 <manu> Ivan: I for one, would love to get rid of the stylesheet rel.
Ivan Herman: I for one, would love to get rid of the stylesheet rel. ←
17:00:23 <manu> Manu: How are we answering Jeni?
Manu: How are we answering Jeni? ←
17:00:24 <manu> Ivan: The terms that we use in RDFa default profile are not going to automatically be the ones that the HTML5 defines because of the differences in semantics. We are going to have to consider all terms that go into the registry (whether from IETF, HTML5, or other).
Ivan: The terms that we use in RDFa default profile are not going to automatically be the ones that the HTML5 defines because of the differences in semantics. We are going to have to consider all terms that go into the registry (whether from IETF, HTML5, or other). ←
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