edit

RDFa Task Force

Minutes of 20 September 2007

Agenda
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Sep/0172.html
Seen
Unknown Manu, Unknown Michael_Hausenblas, Unknown Ralph, Unknown RalphS, Unknown RalphS_, Unknown ShaneM, Unknown Steven, Unknown TomB, Unknown benadida, Unknown markbirbeck, Unknown mhausenblas, Unknown msporny
Chair
Unknown Ben
Scribe
Unknown mhausenblas, Unknown ralphs_, Unknown ralphs
Previous Meeting
http://www.w3.org/2007/09/14-rdfa-minutes.html 2007-09-14
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. we ship the Syntax editors' draft to the SWD WG at COB tomorrow link
  2. ship the Primer editors' draft to the SWD WG at COB tomorrow link
  3. ship the Primer editors' draft to the SWD WG at COB today link
Topics

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14:56:26 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-irc

14:56:33 <RalphS> Meeting: RDFa Task Force
14:56:41 <RalphS> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Sep/0172.html
14:57:06 <RalphS> Previous: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Sep/0158.html 2007-09-14
14:57:31 <RalphS> Previous: http://www.w3.org/2007/09/14-rdfa-minutes.html 2007-09-14
14:58:23 <mhausenblas> Zakim, pick victim

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Unknown mhausenblas: Zakim, pick victim

14:58:23 <Zakim> I don't understand 'pick victim', mhausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'pick victim', mhausenblas

14:59:43 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has now started

14:59:45 <Zakim> +ShaneM

Zakim IRC Bot: +ShaneM

15:00:20 <Zakim> +Michael_Hausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: +Michael_Hausenblas

15:00:21 <Zakim> -Michael_Hausenblas

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Michael_Hausenblas

15:00:23 <Zakim> +Michael_Hausenblas

Zakim IRC Bot: +Michael_Hausenblas

15:02:08 <Zakim> +Ralph

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ralph

15:03:47 <Zakim> +??P14

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14

15:04:00 <RalphS> zakim, ??p14 is Manu

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Unknown RalphS: zakim, ??p14 is Manu

15:04:00 <Zakim> +Manu; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Manu; got it

15:04:27 <markbirbeck> zakim, code?

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Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, code?

15:04:27 <Zakim> the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 7332 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), markbirbeck

15:04:57 <markbirbeck> I do. :)

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Unknown markbirbeck: I do. :)

15:05:08 <Steven> And does it work to your satisfaction?

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Unknown Steven: And does it work to your satisfaction?

15:05:29 <markbirbeck> it does...but I can't remember it. :)

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Unknown markbirbeck: it does...but I can't remember it. :)

15:05:38 <Zakim> +??P16

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P16

15:05:52 <markbirbeck> zakim, i am ??

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Unknown markbirbeck: zakim, i am ??

15:05:52 <Zakim> +markbirbeck; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markbirbeck; got it

15:06:02 <Steven> Ah, it is the number you ask zakim for, not the code. Got it

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Unknown Steven: Ah, it is the number you ask zakim for, not the code. Got it

15:06:38 <markbirbeck> right...I used to know the US one off-by-heart, but for some reason this one eludes me. :)

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Unknown markbirbeck: right...I used to know the US one off-by-heart, but for some reason this one eludes me. :)

15:06:51 <Steven> And you have a phone where you can't program it in?

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Unknown Steven: And you have a phone where you can't program it in?

15:07:15 <markbirbeck> I suppose you think you're clever...

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Unknown markbirbeck: I suppose you think you're clever...

15:07:19 <Steven> I am!

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Unknown Steven: I am!

15:07:25 <Steven> ;-)

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Unknown Steven: ;-)

15:07:36 <markbirbeck> I can't remember the last time I programmed a phone number into a phone...I guess I should.

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Unknown markbirbeck: I can't remember the last time I programmed a phone number into a phone...I guess I should.

15:08:00 <markbirbeck> Michael: Just lulling him into a false sense of security. ;)

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Unknown Michael: Just lulling him into a false sense of security. ;) [ Scribe Assist by Unknown markbirbeck ]

15:08:12 <markbirbeck> How's the weather Steven?

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Unknown markbirbeck: How's the weather Steven?

15:08:40 <Steven> grey; warm

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Unknown Steven: grey; warm

15:09:12 <Steven> @instance of is a monstrous carbuncle on the face of a much-loved and elegant friend.

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Unknown Steven: @instance of is a monstrous carbuncle on the face of a much-loved and elegant friend.

15:09:22 <Steven> instanceof

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Unknown Steven: instanceof

15:09:34 <ShaneM>  whatever

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Unknown ShaneM: whatever

15:09:51 <Steven> hmm <p whatever="my:event">

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Unknown Steven: hmm <p whatever="my:event">

15:10:00 <Steven> Yes, Shane, that might work :-)

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Unknown Steven: Yes, Shane, that might work :-)

15:10:04 <mhausenblas> +1

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Unknown mhausenblas: +1

15:10:14 <Steven> No ben yet?

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Unknown Steven: No ben yet?

15:10:42 <RalphS> zakim, please make a decision for us on @instanceof :)

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Unknown RalphS: zakim, please make a decision for us on @instanceof :)

15:10:42 <Zakim> I'm glad that smiley is there, RalphS

Zakim IRC Bot: I'm glad that smiley is there, RalphS

15:10:46 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

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Unknown Steven: zakim, dial steven-617

15:10:46 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made

15:10:46 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

15:11:18 <RalphS> Steven: today is the 25th anniversary of the smiley

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Unknown Steven: today is the 25th anniversary of the smiley [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:11:22 <RalphS> Manu: that was yesterday

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Unknown Manu: that was yesterday [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:11:33 <RalphS> Steven: Manu is right

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Unknown Steven: Manu is right [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:12:36 <mhausenblas> Zakim, who is on the call?

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Unknown mhausenblas: Zakim, who is on the call?

15:12:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see ShaneM, Michael_Hausenblas, Ralph, Manu, markbirbeck, Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ShaneM, Michael_Hausenblas, Ralph, Manu, markbirbeck, Steven

15:12:54 <Zakim> +??P31

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P31

15:14:41 <RalphS> Topic: Action Review

1. Action Review

15:14:51 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/09/14-rdfa-minutes#ActionSummary

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Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://www.w3.org/2007/09/14-rdfa-minutes#ActionSummary

15:14:53 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Mark find a reference for SAX or clarify the "SAX-like" language [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]

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Unknown RalphS: [DONE] ACTION: Mark find a reference for SAX or clarify the "SAX-like" language [recorded in ACTION-14]">http://www.w3.org/2007/09/14-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-14]

15:15:21 <RalphS> [WITHDRAWN] ACTION: Mark find language for canonicalization of markup in plain literals [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action15]

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Unknown RalphS: [WITHDRAWN] ACTION: Mark find language for canonicalization of markup in plain literals [recorded in ACTION-15]">http://www.w3.org/2007/09/14-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-15]

15:15:25 <benadida> hey folks sorry I'm late. personal emergency this morning, wrapping up now

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Unknown benadida: hey folks sorry I'm late. personal emergency this morning, wrapping up now

15:15:30 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Shane create a conformance section [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]

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Unknown RalphS: [DONE] ACTION: Shane create a conformance section [recorded in ACTION-13]">http://www.w3.org/2007/09/14-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-13]

15:15:34 <Zakim> +benadida

Zakim IRC Bot: +benadida

15:16:05 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Ben collect all the non-binding resolutions into a mail message and call for a vote [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]

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Unknown RalphS: [DONE] ACTION: Ben collect all the non-binding resolutions into a mail message and call for a vote [recorded in ACTION-01]">http://www.w3.org/2007/09/14-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-01]

15:16:20 <mhausenblas> Chair: Ben

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15:16:26 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Ben research whether "Can an RDF-conformant parser generate additional triples than those specified in the Syntax specification?" is an already closed issue [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/14-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]

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Unknown RalphS: [DONE] ACTION: Ben research whether "Can an RDF-conformant parser generate additional triples than those specified in the Syntax specification?" is an already closed issue [recorded in ACTION-12]">http://www.w3.org/2007/09/14-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-12]

15:16:48 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Ben add an isbn: resource example to the Primer to illustrate @resource overriding @href [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#action08]

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Unknown RalphS: [DONE] ACTION: Ben add an isbn: resource example to the Primer to illustrate @resource overriding @href [recorded in ACTION-08]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/30-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-08]

15:16:58 <RalphS> Ben: not ideally integrated, but I did add a short example

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Unknown Ben: not ideally integrated, but I did add a short example [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:17:10 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]

ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in ACTION-04]">http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-04]

15:17:12 <RalphS> -- continues

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Unknown RalphS: -- continues

15:17:39 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Ben to recontact implementors Elias, MarkB, triplr [and Fabien] and post their implementations to http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#Implementations [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

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Unknown RalphS: [DONE] ACTION: Ben to recontact implementors Elias, MarkB, triplr [and Fabien] and post their implementations to http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa#Implementations [recorded in ACTION-09]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/02-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-09]

15:17:52 <RalphS> [DONE] ACTION: Ben to work test cases 31 and 32 into primer [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/16-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]

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Unknown RalphS: [DONE] ACTION: Ben to work test cases 31 and 32 into primer [recorded in ACTION-14]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/16-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-14]

15:18:02 <RalphS> ACTION: Ben, Mark, Elias, and other implementors to add xml:lang support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action11]

ACTION: Ben, Mark, Elias, and other implementors to add xml:lang support [recorded in ACTION-11]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-11]

15:18:04 <RalphS> -- continues

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Unknown RalphS: -- continues

15:18:09 <RalphS> Ben: I haven't done mine yet

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Unknown Ben: I haven't done mine yet [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:18:22 <RalphS> ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for tests 42-45 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action14]

ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for tests 42-45 [recorded in ACTION-14]">http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-14]

15:18:26 <RalphS> Michael: I looked into it

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Unknown Michael: I looked into it [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:18:44 <RalphS> ... my conclusion was that foaf:depiction is semantically correct

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Unknown RalphS: ... my conclusion was that foaf:depiction is semantically correct

15:18:48 <RalphS> ... I haven't reported this yet

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Unknown RalphS: ... I haven't reported this yet

15:18:50 <RalphS> -- continues

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Unknown RalphS: -- continues

15:19:07 <RalphS> ACTION: Michael make sure to confirm a design for checking that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]

ACTION: Michael make sure to confirm a design for checking that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-07]

15:19:24 <RalphS> Michael: in light of recent conversation about named graphs, this may change

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Unknown Michael: in light of recent conversation about named graphs, this may change [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:19:27 <RalphS> -- continues

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Unknown RalphS: -- continues

15:19:40 <RalphS> ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]

ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06]

15:19:41 <RalphS> -- continues

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Unknown RalphS: -- continues

15:20:05 <RalphS> Topic: Document Status

2. Document Status

15:20:14 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, draft minutes

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Unknown mhausenblas: RRSAgent, draft minutes

15:20:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-minutes.html mhausenblas

15:20:37 <RalphS> zakim, list attendees

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Unknown RalphS: zakim, list attendees

15:20:39 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been ShaneM, Michael_Hausenblas, Ralph, Manu, markbirbeck, Steven, TomB, benadida

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been ShaneM, Michael_Hausenblas, Ralph, Manu, markbirbeck, Steven, TomB, benadida

15:20:59 <mhausenblas> RRSAgent, make logs public

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Unknown mhausenblas: RRSAgent, make logs public

15:21:10 <RalphS> Ben: goal for today is to decide whether or not to send these editors' drafts to the SWD WG for review

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Unknown Ben: goal for today is to decide whether or not to send these editors' drafts to the SWD WG for review [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:21:45 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-rdfa-syntax-20070918/ Syntax

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Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-rdfa-syntax-20070918/ Syntax

15:22:11 <RalphS> Shane: to my mind there's nothing but dotting i's and crossing t's before handing it to the WG

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Unknown Shane: to my mind there's nothing but dotting i's and crossing t's before handing it to the WG [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:22:25 <RalphS> ... definition of XHTML module that supports RDFa is major task for this week

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Unknown RalphS: ... definition of XHTML module that supports RDFa is major task for this week

15:22:36 <RalphS> ... I did all the suggested editorial changes

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Unknown RalphS: ... I did all the suggested editorial changes

15:23:03 <RalphS> Mark: regarding @instanceof in the syntax spec,

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Unknown Mark: regarding @instanceof in the syntax spec, [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:23:13 <RalphS> ... I introduced "current element identifier" into the text

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Unknown RalphS: ... I introduced "current element identifier" into the text

15:23:39 <RalphS> ... I currently say current element identifier is set by one of these attributes and @instanceof sets the rdf:type of the current element

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Unknown RalphS: ... I currently say current element identifier is set by one of these attributes and @instanceof sets the rdf:type of the current element

15:24:22 <benadida> zakim, mute TomB

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Unknown benadida: zakim, mute TomB

15:24:22 <Zakim> TomB should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TomB should now be muted

15:25:02 <mhausenblas> ScribeNick: mhausenblas

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(Scribe set to Unknown mhausenblas)

15:25:16 <mhausenblas> TomB: Regarding the A'dam meeting

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Unknown TomB: Regarding the A'dam meeting

15:25:27 <mhausenblas> ... how much time will be needed

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... how much time will be needed

15:26:02 <mhausenblas> ... need to have an overview on what other SWD members need to look at

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... need to have an overview on what other SWD members need to look at

15:26:38 <mhausenblas> Ben: By next Tuesday we'll have a frozen version of the documents

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Unknown Ben: By next Tuesday we'll have a frozen version of the documents

15:26:47 <mhausenblas> that is the Primer and the Syntax

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that is the Primer and the Syntax

15:27:04 <RalphS_> scribenick: ralphs_

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(Scribe set to Unknown ralphs_)

15:27:59 <RalphS_> Mark: I plan to attend the f2f in person but I'd prefer that the RDFa discussion take place on Monday

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Unknown Mark: I plan to attend the f2f in person but I'd prefer that the RDFa discussion take place on Monday [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS_ ]

15:28:15 <RalphS_> Tom: RDFa currently on the agenda for Tuesday, but I'll talk with Guus about this

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Unknown Tom: RDFa currently on the agenda for Tuesday, but I'll talk with Guus about this [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS_ ]

15:28:30 <RalphS_> ... the WG will probably need a morning and afternoon session for SKOS

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Unknown RalphS_: ... the WG will probably need a morning and afternoon session for SKOS

15:28:50 <RalphS_> ... it would be awkward to insert RDFa between these two sessions

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Unknown RalphS_: ... it would be awkward to insert RDFa between these two sessions

15:29:36 <RalphS_> Ben: I plan to attend by phone

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Unknown Ben: I plan to attend by phone [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS_ ]

15:29:56 <RalphS_> ... so a morning (in Amsterdam) would work well for me

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Unknown RalphS_: ... so a morning (in Amsterdam) would work well for me

15:30:03 <RalphS> scribenick: ralphs

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(Scribe set to Unknown ralphs)

15:30:37 <Steven> zakim, who is noisy?

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Unknown Steven: zakim, who is noisy?

15:30:52 <Zakim> Steven, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Manu (11%), Michael_Hausenblas (4%), benadida (81%)

Zakim IRC Bot: Steven, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Manu (11%), Michael_Hausenblas (4%), benadida (81%)

15:32:35 <RalphS> Ben: we'd probably want to discuss the strategy for RDFa

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Unknown Ben: we'd probably want to discuss the strategy for RDFa [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:32:44 <RalphS> ... Mark and Steven would be good at doing this

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Unknown RalphS: ... Mark and Steven would be good at doing this

15:33:04 <RalphS> ... so up to 3 hours on the agenda if possible

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Unknown RalphS: ... so up to 3 hours on the agenda if possible

15:33:10 <Steven> How many people will be at the FtF?

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Unknown Steven: How many people will be at the FtF?

15:33:21 <TomB> q+

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Unknown TomB: q+

15:33:26 <RalphS> Mark: I'd like to discuss the broader vision too

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Unknown Mark: I'd like to discuss the broader vision too [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:33:31 <Steven> q+

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Unknown Steven: q+

15:33:36 <Steven> ack TIm

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Unknown Steven: ack TIm

15:33:41 <Steven> ack Tom

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Unknown Steven: ack Tom

15:33:50 <RalphS> Tom: length of agenda depends on what sort of technical feedback is wanted

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Unknown Tom: length of agenda depends on what sort of technical feedback is wanted [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:34:03 <RalphS> ... if the group is being asked to form an opinion on technical issues, then

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Unknown RalphS: ... if the group is being asked to form an opinion on technical issues, then

15:34:12 <RalphS> ... (1) the readings need to be listed on the agenda in advance and

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Unknown RalphS: ... (1) the readings need to be listed on the agenda in advance and

15:34:22 <RalphS> ... (2) sufficient time for discussion needs to be scheduled

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Unknown RalphS: ... (2) sufficient time for discussion needs to be scheduled

15:34:31 <RalphS> ... so a demonstration of technology might help in the discussion

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Unknown RalphS: ... so a demonstration of technology might help in the discussion

15:35:26 <RalphS> Tom: depends on the questions you want to ask of the WG -- will they be asked to give an opinion on technical issues?

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Unknown Tom: depends on the questions you want to ask of the WG -- will they be asked to give an opinion on technical issues? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:35:46 <RalphS> ... about a dozen WG participants will be present

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Unknown RalphS: ... about a dozen WG participants will be present

15:35:56 <RalphS> q+

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Unknown RalphS: q+

15:36:27 <RalphS> Ralph: a tutorial, if given, should be brief; we expect the WG participants to read

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Unknown Ralph: a tutorial, if given, should be brief; we expect the WG participants to read [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:36:34 <Zakim> -TomB

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Zakim IRC Bot: -TomB

15:38:57 <RalphS> Mark: the current Syntax editors' draft is clear that @instanceof won't simply inherit from the element but will use @about, @rev, @href, etc.

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Unknown Mark: the current Syntax editors' draft is clear that @instanceof won't simply inherit from the element but will use @about, @rev, @href, etc. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:39:04 <RalphS> ... and currently gives priority to @about

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Unknown RalphS: ... and currently gives priority to @about

15:39:29 <RalphS> ... there is one section that needs more work; 6.2.2.

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Unknown RalphS: ... there is one section that needs more work; 6.2.2.

15:40:06 <RalphS> ... now that Syntax has been merged with the modularization document this needs polishing

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Unknown RalphS: ... now that Syntax has been merged with the modularization document this needs polishing

15:40:21 <RalphS> ... won't be deeply confusing to the WG but somethings could be clearer

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Unknown RalphS: ... won't be deeply confusing to the WG but somethings could be clearer

15:40:49 <RalphS> ... should take me only 2-3 hours to fix that

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Unknown RalphS: ... should take me only 2-3 hours to fix that

15:41:02 <RalphS> Ben: what about @rel without prefix values?

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Unknown Ben: what about @rel without prefix values? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:41:26 <RalphS> Shane: this is listed in the issue list in the document

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Unknown Shane: this is listed in the issue list in the document [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:42:12 <RalphS> Mark: I can work on 6.2.2.2 tomorrow morning

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Unknown Mark: I can work on 6.2.2.2 tomorrow morning [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:43:29 <RalphS> Shane: when I put up a new editors' draft tomorrow, it will have a diff to the previous draft

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Unknown Shane: when I put up a new editors' draft tomorrow, it will have a diff to the previous draft [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:44:28 <RalphS> PROPOSE: we ship the Syntax editors' draft to the SWD WG at COB tomorrow

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Unknown PROPOSE: we ship the Syntax editors' draft to the SWD WG at COB tomorrow [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:44:35 <mhausenblas> +1

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Unknown mhausenblas: +1

15:44:36 <RalphS> RESOLVED: we ship the Syntax editors' draft to the SWD WG at COB tomorrow

RESOLVED: we ship the Syntax editors' draft to the SWD WG at COB tomorrow

15:44:51 <RalphS> -- Primer

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Unknown RalphS: -- Primer

15:44:59 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/primer/20070918/ Primer

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Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/primer/20070918/ Primer

15:45:09 <RalphS> Ben: wasn't as much work to do on the Primer; lots of comments but easy to integrate

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Unknown Ben: wasn't as much work to do on the Primer; lots of comments but easy to integrate [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:45:24 <RalphS> ... I want to highlight the markup to show what was added in each step

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Unknown RalphS: ... I want to highlight the markup to show what was added in each step

15:46:10 <RalphS> ... I've integrated all the comments except highlighting markup and an example of @href on a non-anchor

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Unknown RalphS: ... I've integrated all the comments except highlighting markup and an example of @href on a non-anchor

15:46:33 <RalphS> ... I haven't found a way to work @href on non-A in an easy way; may leave this to a case study

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Unknown RalphS: ... I haven't found a way to work @href on non-A in an easy way; may leave this to a case study

15:46:52 <RalphS> Manu: this seems like a corner case; the Primer is pretty good as it stands

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Unknown Manu: this seems like a corner case; the Primer is pretty good as it stands [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:47:00 <RalphS> Ralph: ship without it

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Unknown Ralph: ship without it [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:47:05 <mhausenblas> +1

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Unknown mhausenblas: +1

15:47:42 <RalphS> PROPOSE: ship the Primer editors' draft to the SWD WG at COB tomorrow

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Unknown PROPOSE: ship the Primer editors' draft to the SWD WG at COB tomorrow [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:48:00 <RalphS> RESOLVED: ship the Primer editors' draft to the SWD WG at COB tomorrow

RESOLVED: ship the Primer editors' draft to the SWD WG at COB tomorrow

15:48:08 <mhausenblas> +1

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Unknown mhausenblas: +1

15:48:08 <Steven> +1

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Unknown Steven: +1

15:49:30 <RalphS> RESOLVED: ship the Primer editors' draft to the SWD WG at COB today

RESOLVED: ship the Primer editors' draft to the SWD WG at COB today

15:50:40 <mhausenblas> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Sep/0189.html

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Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Sep/0189.html

15:50:41 <RalphS> Topic: @instanceof, @rel w/o prefix

3. @instanceof, @rel w/o prefix

15:51:27 <RalphS> Michael: [cites DanBri's recent message on conformance testing]

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Unknown Michael: [cites DanC's recent message on conformance testing] [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:51:45 <Steven> s/DanBri/DanC/
15:51:49 <RalphS> Mark: I'd not been thinking about extra triple use case in terms of conformance

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Unknown Mark: I'd not been thinking about extra triple use case in terms of conformance [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:52:24 <RalphS> ... today I started thinking about using named graphs

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Unknown RalphS: ... today I started thinking about using named graphs

15:52:36 <RalphS> ... suppose RDFa put all its triples into a kind of default named graph

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Unknown RalphS: ... suppose RDFa put all its triples into a kind of default named graph

15:52:57 <RalphS> ... any extra triples my tool wants to generate should go into a separate graph

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Unknown RalphS: ... any extra triples my tool wants to generate should go into a separate graph

15:53:29 <RalphS> Ben: this sounds like an interesting technical solution but is there a more generic viewpoint; e.g. a switch in the tool to turn off extra triples?

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Unknown Ben: this sounds like an interesting technical solution but is there a more generic viewpoint; e.g. a switch in the tool to turn off extra triples? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:53:34 <RalphS> Mark: testing is only one scenario

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Unknown Mark: testing is only one scenario [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:53:48 <Steven> q+ to ask what the test suite tests

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Unknown Steven: q+ to ask what the test suite tests

15:53:49 <RalphS> ... suppose I want to do more processing on IMG -- spot IMG elements and put more into the triple store

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Unknown RalphS: ... suppose I want to do more processing on IMG -- spot IMG elements and put more into the triple store

15:54:17 <RalphS> ... in the future we might decide that there's a mapping between IMG and dcmi:image

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Unknown RalphS: ... in the future we might decide that there's a mapping between IMG and dcmi:image

15:54:34 <RalphS> q+ to be very conservative about 'named graphs'

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Unknown RalphS: q+ to be very conservative about 'named graphs'

15:55:00 <RalphS> Ben: instead of specifying a named graph solution, I'm suggesting a mode in which the implementation generates only the triples specified

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Unknown Ben: instead of specifying a named graph solution, I'm suggesting a mode in which the implementation generates only the triples specified [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:55:03 <mhausenblas> q+

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Unknown mhausenblas: q+

15:55:29 <msporny> q+ 'named graph' concept applied to Microformats and RDFa

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Unknown msporny: q+ 'named graph' concept applied to Microformats and RDFa

15:55:38 <RalphS> Mark: we could use a different terminology than named graph but with this kind of approach we can avoid future conflicts; the triples are in separate buckets

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Unknown Mark: we could use a different terminology than named graph but with this kind of approach we can avoid future conflicts; the triples are in separate buckets [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:55:50 <RalphS> ... we can say 'the default graph should look like this ...'

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Unknown RalphS: ... we can say 'the default graph should look like this ...'

15:56:08 <RalphS> ... the test case queries could stay the same but could also be much tougher

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Unknown RalphS: ... the test case queries could stay the same but could also be much tougher

15:56:13 <msporny> q+ to use 'named graph' concept applied to Microformats and RDFa

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Unknown msporny: q+ to use 'named graph' concept applied to Microformats and RDFa

15:56:20 <Zakim> Steven, you wanted to ask what the test suite tests

Zakim IRC Bot: Steven, you wanted to ask what the test suite tests

15:56:34 <RalphS> Steven: the test suite has to be clear about what it's testing

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Unknown Steven: the test suite has to be clear about what it's testing [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:56:40 <RalphS> ... I don't believe it is a conformance tester

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Unknown RalphS: ... I don't believe it is a conformance tester

15:56:53 <RalphS> ... rather, it's there to be able to demonstrate CR exit criteria

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Unknown RalphS: ... rather, it's there to be able to demonstrate CR exit criteria

15:57:17 <RalphS> ... we're actually checking that the specification is consistent and matches what the implementations actually do

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Unknown RalphS: ... we're actually checking that the specification is consistent and matches what the implementations actually do

15:57:54 <RalphS> Shane: W3C doesn't actually have a concept of 'conformance testing'

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Unknown Shane: W3C doesn't actually have a concept of 'conformance testing' [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:58:45 <Zakim> RalphS, you wanted to be very conservative about 'named graphs'

Zakim IRC Bot: RalphS, you wanted to be very conservative about 'named graphs'

15:59:33 <RalphS> Ralph: I don't want to be defining named graphs

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Unknown Ralph: I don't want to be defining named graphs [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

15:59:44 <RalphS> ... or default graphs for the purposes of an RDFa spec

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Unknown RalphS: ... or default graphs for the purposes of an RDFa spec

15:59:57 <RalphS> Mark: the idea of 'named graph' seems to be a way to define a list of triples

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Unknown Mark: the idea of 'named graph' seems to be a way to define a list of triples [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

16:00:06 <RalphS> ... we could say that RDFa produces one or more graphs

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Unknown RalphS: ... we could say that RDFa produces one or more graphs

16:00:29 <RalphS> Ralph: seems a huge can of worms

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Unknown Ralph: seems a huge can of worms [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

16:00:50 <RalphS> Mark: I have sympathy for the concern of how extra triples are characterized

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Unknown Mark: I have sympathy for the concern of how extra triples are characterized [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

16:01:18 <RalphS> ... and how implementations that create additional triples today may be protected from future versions of RDFa spec

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Unknown RalphS: ... and how implementations that create additional triples today may be protected from future versions of RDFa spec

16:01:43 <Zakim> -Steven

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven

16:01:51 <Steven> zakim, dial steven-617

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Unknown Steven: zakim, dial steven-617

16:01:51 <Zakim> ok, Steven; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Steven; the call is being made

16:01:53 <Zakim> +Steven

Zakim IRC Bot: +Steven

16:02:03 <RalphS> ... and DanC's message suggests that we cite the GRDDL conclusion

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Unknown RalphS: ... and DanC's message suggests that we cite the GRDDL conclusion

16:02:28 <mhausenblas> ack me

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Unknown mhausenblas: ack me

16:02:32 <mhausenblas> -> http://www.w3.org/QA/WG/2005/01/test-faq W3C Test FAQ

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Unknown mhausenblas: -> http://www.w3.org/QA/WG/2005/01/test-faq W3C Test FAQ

16:03:01 <RalphS> ... we were not planning to put the test cases on the REC track anyway

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Unknown RalphS: ... we were not planning to put the test cases on the REC track anyway

16:03:19 <RalphS> ... I'm prepared to make whatever changes to the tests that the TF requires

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Unknown RalphS: ... I'm prepared to make whatever changes to the tests that the TF requires

16:03:39 <RalphS> Manu: the named graphs concept is likely to become an issue much sooner than we may realize

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Unknown Manu: the named graphs concept is likely to become an issue much sooner than we may realize [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

16:04:08 <RalphS> ... FireFox operator will raise this question of partitioned triple stores

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Unknown RalphS: ... FireFox operator will raise this question of partitioned triple stores

16:04:21 <RalphS> ... we can already see namespace conflicts between microformats and RDFa

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Unknown RalphS: ... we can already see namespace conflicts between microformats and RDFa

16:05:03 <RalphS> Ben: perhaps we're looking at the wrong level of abstraction

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Unknown Ben: perhaps we're looking at the wrong level of abstraction [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

16:05:16 <RalphS> ... consider FireFox with multiple parsers

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Unknown RalphS: ... consider FireFox with multiple parsers

16:05:39 <RalphS> ... the results from each parser may need to be partitioned

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Unknown RalphS: ... the results from each parser may need to be partitioned

16:05:54 <RalphS> ... this is perhaps a best practices issue, not an RDFa issue

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Unknown RalphS: ... this is perhaps a best practices issue, not an RDFa issue

16:06:01 <RalphS> Manu: implementors will look for some direction

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Unknown Manu: implementors will look for some direction [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

16:06:34 <RalphS> Ben: but implementors won't expect the RDFa spec to say how to partition from, e.g., E-RDF

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Unknown Ben: but implementors won't expect the RDFa spec to say how to partition from, e.g., E-RDF [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

16:06:57 <RalphS> Manu: since the spec doesn't give any direction at all, we end up discussing it over and over

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Unknown Manu: since the spec doesn't give any direction at all, we end up discussing it over and over [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

16:07:24 <RalphS> ... it's not this Working Group's job to define this behavior but implementors will need something

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Unknown RalphS: ... it's not this Working Group's job to define this behavior but implementors will need something

16:08:02 <RalphS> Mark: perhaps all we need is to indicate that the RDFa processor says these triples are generated and if the implementation generates more it may need a partitioning mechanism

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Unknown Mark: perhaps all we need is to indicate that the RDFa processor says these triples are generated and if the implementation generates more it may need a partitioning mechanism [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

16:09:26 <RalphS> ACTION: Manu draft some partitioning language that is technology-neutral

ACTION: Manu draft some partitioning language that is technology-neutral

16:09:33 <Zakim> -Steven

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Steven

16:10:42 <RalphS> Michael: I volunteer to create graphics on request

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Unknown Michael: I volunteer to create graphics on request [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

16:10:55 <RalphS> Ben: I see opportunities for technical graphics in the Syntax spec

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Unknown Ben: I see opportunities for technical graphics in the Syntax spec [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

16:11:02 <RalphS> ... I'd love to have a graphic in the Primer

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Unknown RalphS: ... I'd love to have a graphic in the Primer

16:11:39 <RalphS> Shane: perhaps HTML with the RDFa highlighted for, e.g. FOAF, and a business card with the same information highlighted

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Unknown Manu: perhaps HTML with the RDFa highlighted for, e.g. FOAF, and a business card with the same information highlighted [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

16:12:05 <RalphS> Ben: ideally the example would be something that doesn't also have a simple microformat representation

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Unknown Ben: ideally the example would be something that doesn't also have a simple microformat representation [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

16:12:25 <RalphS> s/Shane:/Manu:/
16:12:53 <RalphS> Michael: FOAF is appealing because most people know about FOAF

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Unknown Michael: FOAF is appealing because most people know about FOAF [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

16:13:31 <RalphS> Ben: thanks, Mark and Shane, for hitting this deadline of the WG f2f

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Unknown Ben: thanks, Mark and Shane, for hitting this deadline of the WG f2f [ Scribe Assist by Unknown RalphS ]

16:13:52 <RalphS> next telecon: Thursday, 27 Sep

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Unknown RalphS: next telecon: Thursday, 27 Sep

16:13:53 <Zakim> -ShaneM

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Zakim IRC Bot: -ShaneM

16:13:54 <Zakim> -markbirbeck

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Zakim IRC Bot: -markbirbeck

16:13:54 <RalphS> [adjourned]

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Unknown RalphS: [adjourned]

16:13:55 <Zakim> -Manu

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Manu

16:13:55 <Zakim> -Michael_Hausenblas

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Michael_Hausenblas

16:13:58 <Zakim> -benadida

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Zakim IRC Bot: -benadida

16:14:00 <Zakim> -Ralph

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Zakim IRC Bot: -Ralph

16:14:00 <mhausenblas> Michael: Thanks to the chair!

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Unknown Michael: Thanks to the chair! [ Scribe Assist by Unknown mhausenblas ]

16:14:01 <Zakim> SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_SWD(RDFa)11:00AM has ended

16:14:03 <Zakim> Attendees were ShaneM, Michael_Hausenblas, Ralph, Manu, markbirbeck, Steven, TomB, benadida

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were ShaneM, Michael_Hausenblas, Ralph, Manu, markbirbeck, Steven, TomB, benadida

16:14:12 <RalphS> rrsagent, please draft minutes

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Unknown RalphS: rrsagent, please draft minutes

16:14:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS

16:15:26 <RalphS> i|previous: |scribenick: ralphs

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Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: i|previous: |scribenick: ralphs

16:15:29 <RalphS> rrsagent, please draft minutes

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: rrsagent, please draft minutes

16:15:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS

16:16:02 <RalphS> i|Previous: |scribenick: ralphs

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: i|Previous: |scribenick: ralphs

16:16:30 <RalphS> rrsagent, please draft minutes

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: rrsagent, please draft minutes

16:16:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-minutes.html RalphS

16:17:03 <RalphS> rrsagent, bye

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'RalphS' does not match any of the 3 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown RalphS: rrsagent, bye

16:17:03 <RRSAgent> I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 6 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-actions.rdf :

16:17:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04] [1]

ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in ACTION-04]">http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#ACTION-04] [1]

16:17:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-irc#T15-17-10

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-irc#T15-17-10

16:17:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Ben, Mark, Elias, and other implementors to add xml:lang support [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action11] [2]

ACTION: Ben, Mark, Elias, and other implementors to add xml:lang support [recorded in ACTION-11]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-11] [2]

16:17:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-irc#T15-18-02

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-irc#T15-18-02

16:17:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for tests 42-45 [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action14] [3]

ACTION: Michael look for a more semantically correct predicate for tests 42-45 [recorded in ACTION-14]">http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-14] [3]

16:17:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-irc#T15-18-22

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-irc#T15-18-22

16:17:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael make sure to confirm a design for checking that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [4]

ACTION: Michael make sure to confirm a design for checking that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [recorded in ACTION-07]">http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-07] [4]

16:17:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-irc#T15-19-07

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-irc#T15-19-07

16:17:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [5]

ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right -- unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in ACTION-06]">http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#ACTION-06] [5]

16:17:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-irc#T15-19-40

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-irc#T15-19-40

16:17:03 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Manu draft some partitioning language that is technology-neutral [6]

ACTION: Manu draft some partitioning language that is technology-neutral [6]

16:17:03 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-irc#T16-09-26

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/09/20-rdfa-irc#T16-09-26



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