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RDF Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 11 December 2013

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.12.11
Seen
Andy Seaborne, Antoine Zimmermann, Arnaud Le Hors, David Wood, Eric Prud'hommeaux, Gavin Carothers, Gregg Kellogg, Guus Schreiber, Ivan Herman, Markus Lanthaler, Patrick Hayes, Peter Patel-Schneider, Pierre-Antoine Champin, Sandro Hawke, Souripriya Das, Ted Thibodeau, Thomas Baker, Yves Raimond
Chair
Guus Schreiber
Scribe
Arnaud Le Hors
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. accept the minutes of the 04 Dec telecon: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-12-04 link
  2. remove the Section "Using RDF/XML with HTML and XHTML" [1], as it is now obsolete. link
  3. close issue-156, taking no action link
  4. request the Director to advance Turtle, TriG, N-Triples and N-Quads to Proposed Recommendation, pending updates by the editors and confirmation by the chairs link
  5. mark rdf:HTML and rdf:XMLLiteral as non-normative link
  6. request Director to move RDF schema to Proposed Edited Rec link
  7. remove appendix A from Concepts doc and replace with a pointer to the What's new in RDF 1.1 doc link
  8. publish What's new in RDF 1.1 as a FPWD link
  9. publish Primer as FPWD, pending a proposal from the editors to provide a new multi-graph example to be used link
Topics
15:36:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/12/11-rdf-wg-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/12/11-rdf-wg-irc

15:36:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

15:36:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394

15:36:48 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 24 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 24 minutes

15:36:49 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
15:36:49 <trackbot> Date: 11 December 2013
15:59:43 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

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Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

15:59:52 <Zakim> +Guus_Schreiber

Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus_Schreiber

16:00:24 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

16:00:30 <Zakim> +GavinC

Zakim IRC Bot: +GavinC

16:00:30 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is termporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is termporarily me

16:00:31 <Zakim> I don't understand 'OpenLink_Software is termporarily me', TallTed

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'OpenLink_Software is termporarily me', TallTed

16:00:31 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

16:00:31 <Zakim> sorry, TallTed, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, TallTed, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

16:00:33 <Zakim> +pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps

16:00:38 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

16:00:38 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it

16:00:40 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

16:00:40 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

16:01:24 <Guus> zakim, who is here?

Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here?

16:01:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, TallTed (muted), GavinC, pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, TallTed (muted), GavinC, pfps

16:01:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see pchampin, pfps, gkellogg, AZ, Guus, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, gavinc, TallTed, davidwood, Arnaud, sandro, m4nu, yvesr, ericP, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pchampin, pfps, gkellogg, AZ, Guus, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, gavinc, TallTed, davidwood, Arnaud, sandro, m4nu, yvesr, ericP, trackbot

16:01:25 <Zakim> +??P19

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P19

16:01:32 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

16:01:33 <pchampin> zakim, ??P19 is me

Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P19 is me

16:01:34 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it

16:01:36 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPcaller is me

16:01:36 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

16:01:41 <Zakim> +Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud

16:01:46 <Zakim> +EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP

16:01:49 <Arnaud> scribe: Arnaud

(Scribe set to Arnaud Le Hors)

16:01:54 <ivan> zakim, code?

Ivan Herman: zakim, code?

16:01:54 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan

16:02:01 <Zakim> +??P21

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21

16:02:04 <Arnaud> topic: Admin

1. Admin

16:02:16 <Arnaud> subtopic: Minutes of last meeting

1.1. Minutes of last meeting

16:02:27 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P21 is me

Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P21 is me

16:02:28 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it

16:02:45 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

16:03:14 <Guus> zakim, who is here?

Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here?

16:03:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, TallTed (muted), GavinC, pfps, pchampin, AndyS, Arnaud, EricP, yvesr, Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Guus_Schreiber, TallTed (muted), GavinC, pfps, pchampin, AndyS, Arnaud, EricP, yvesr, Ivan

16:03:14 <ivan> zakim, mute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me

16:03:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see pchampin, pfps, gkellogg, AZ, Guus, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, gavinc, TallTed, davidwood, Arnaud, sandro, m4nu, yvesr, ericP, trackbot

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pchampin, pfps, gkellogg, AZ, Guus, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, gavinc, TallTed, davidwood, Arnaud, sandro, m4nu, yvesr, ericP, trackbot

16:03:17 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted

16:03:39 <Zakim> + +33.4.77.42.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +33.4.77.42.aaaa

16:03:40 <Guus> chair: Guus
16:03:46 <AZ> Zakim, aaaa

Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, aaaa

16:03:46 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aaaa', AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'aaaa', AZ

16:03:49 <AZ> Zakim, aaaa is me

Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, aaaa is me

16:03:49 <Zakim> +AZ; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it

16:03:56 <Zakim> +??P31

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P31

16:04:01 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P31

Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am ??P31

16:04:02 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it

16:04:05 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: accept the minutes of the 04 Dec telecon: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-12-04

PROPOSED: accept the minutes of the 04 Dec telecon: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-12-04

16:04:18 <Zakim> +David_Wood

Zakim IRC Bot: +David_Wood

16:04:20 <ericP> Zakim, mute me

Eric Prud'hommeaux: Zakim, mute me

16:04:21 <Zakim> EricP should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: EricP should now be muted

16:04:21 <pfps> minutes are fine

Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes are fine

16:04:31 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: accept the minutes of the 04 Dec telecon: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-12-04

RESOLVED: accept the minutes of the 04 Dec telecon: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-12-04

16:04:41 <Arnaud> subtopic: review of action items

1.2. review of action items

16:04:54 <Arnaud> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.12.11
16:05:18 <pfps> someone sure cleaned up the action items!

Peter Patel-Schneider: someone sure cleaned up the action items!

16:05:26 <Arnaud> action-98, to sandro, not urgent

ACTION-98, to sandro, not urgent

16:05:26 <trackbot> Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.

16:05:40 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

16:05:57 <Arnaud> action-281 still going on

ACTION-281 still going on

16:06:06 <Arnaud> action-326, david will do it

ACTION-326, david will do it

16:06:19 <Arnaud> action-329, gavin is now available to work on it

ACTION-329, gavin is now available to work on it

16:06:53 <Arnaud> guus: action-329 is now "update" instead of "add"

Guus Schreiber: ACTION-329 is now "update" instead of "add"

16:06:54 <Zakim> +??P0

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0

16:06:56 <markus> zakim, ??P0 is me

Markus Lanthaler: zakim, ??P0 is me

16:06:57 <Zakim> +markus; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markus; got it

16:07:02 <ivan> zakim, unmute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute me

16:07:02 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should no longer be muted

16:07:10 <Arnaud> subtopic: Next meeting

1.3. Next meeting

<Arnaud> guus: next meeting is 18 Dec

Guus Schreiber: next meeting is 18 Dec

16:07:28 <Zakim> +Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri

16:07:32 <Arnaud> subtopic: JSON-LD PR vote results

1.4. JSON-LD PR vote results

16:07:45 <Arnaud> ivan: don't have the results, will get them

Ivan Herman: don't have the results, will get them

16:07:58 <Arnaud> guus: when do we gather testimonials?

Guus Schreiber: when do we gather testimonials?

16:08:09 <Arnaud> ivan: we have time, can do that in January

Ivan Herman: we have time, can do that in January

16:08:29 <Arnaud> sandro: expected REC unknown yet, but expected to be pushed back

Sandro Hawke: expected REC unknown yet, but expected to be pushed back

16:10:55 <ivan> JSON-LD votes: 27 yes as is, 1 with some purely editorial comments, and 2 abstentions

Ivan Herman: JSON-LD votes: 27 yes as is, 1 with some purely editorial comments, and 2 abstentions

16:12:35 <Arnaud> ivan: got the JSON-LD vote results, comments are editorial, editors should just handle them

Ivan Herman: got the JSON-LD vote results, comments are editorial, editors should just handle them

16:08:35 <Arnaud> topic: WG activity plan

2. WG activity plan

16:08:53 <Arnaud> Guus: Draft PR http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/RDF11-PR-Request

Guus Schreiber: Draft PR http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/RDF11-PR-Request

16:09:07 <Arnaud> ... goal is to have the decision today

... goal is to have the decision today

16:09:16 <Arnaud> ... for end of Feb REC

... for end of Feb REC

16:09:36 <Arnaud> ... need to request W3M for a 2 month extension

... need to request W3M for a 2 month extension

16:09:50 <Arnaud> ... need to know if that works for the WG

... need to know if that works for the WG

16:10:14 <Arnaud> ... plan is still to get all the docs to REC at the same time

... plan is still to get all the docs to REC at the same time

16:11:01 <pfps> I have problems with splitting REC times.

Peter Patel-Schneider: I have problems with splitting REC times.

16:11:06 <sandro> very impressive

Sandro Hawke: very impressive

16:11:09 <Arnaud> ivan: because of the dependencies between docs it's better to have them all at the same time

Ivan Herman: because of the dependencies between docs it's better to have them all at the same time

16:12:57 <Arnaud> topic: CR implementations

3. CR implementations

16:13:09 <Arnaud> Guus: are the reports up-to-date?

Guus Schreiber: are the reports up-to-date?

16:13:39 <Arnaud> gkellogg: reports should be updated to fix some issues

Gregg Kellogg: reports should be updated to fix some issues

16:13:50 <PatH> Sorry Im late.

Patrick Hayes: Sorry Im late.

16:14:16 <Arnaud> Guus: turtle spec is missing a reference to the implementation report and test suite

Guus Schreiber: turtle spec is missing a reference to the implementation report and test suite

16:14:31 <Zakim> +PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH

16:14:43 <ericP> -> http://services.w3.org/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fturtle%2F&doc2=http%3A%2F%2Fjay.w3.org%2F~eric%2FOverview.html current Turtle diffs

Eric Prud'hommeaux: -> http://services.w3.org/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FTR%2Fturtle%2F&doc2=http%3A%2F%2Fjay.w3.org%2F~eric%2FOverview.html current Turtle diffs

16:14:46 <ericP> (btw)

Eric Prud'hommeaux: (btw)

16:14:49 <pfps> Who do I send revised EARL reports to?

Peter Patel-Schneider: Who do I send revised EARL reports to?

16:15:08 <gkellogg> Send revised EARL reports to rdf-comments.

Gregg Kellogg: Send revised EARL reports to rdf-comments.

16:15:15 <Arnaud> Guus: any news on semantics tests?

Guus Schreiber: any news on semantics tests?

16:16:29 <Arnaud> pfps: there are some updates that he will forward to the WG

Peter Patel-Schneider: tIre are some updates that I will forward to tI WG

16:16:53 <Arnaud> s/he/I/
16:17:23 <Arnaud> Guus: should try and push to get some implementations

Guus Schreiber: should try and push to get some implementations

16:17:43 <Arnaud> ... if that doesn't work we can try and ask the Director to waive the exit criteria

... if that doesn't work we can try and ask the Director to waive the exit criteria

16:18:00 <Arnaud> ivan: don't think there is a precedent for this

Ivan Herman: don't think there is a precedent for this

16:18:50 <Arnaud> Guus: this may be a problem but we'll see

Guus Schreiber: this may be a problem but we'll see

16:18:54 <Arnaud> topic: CR comments

4. CR comments

16:19:08 <Arnaud> Guus: all turtle comments have been addressed

Guus Schreiber: all turtle comments have been addressed

16:19:53 <Arnaud> ... other docs: for concepts we need the editors to deal with the comments

... other docs: for concepts we need the editors to deal with the comments

16:20:29 <Arnaud> ... what's the status of comment #8?

... what's the status of comment #8?

16:20:55 <Arnaud> andys: have replied but didn't get a response

Andy Seaborne: have replied but didn't get a response

16:21:07 <Arnaud> Guus: ok, we accepted this actually

Guus Schreiber: ok, we accepted this actually

16:21:22 <Arnaud> ... #11, that's a draft fix

... #11, that's a draft fix

16:21:39 <Arnaud> andys: haven't got a formal response but consider this resolved

Andy Seaborne: haven't got a formal response but consider this resolved

16:21:59 <Arnaud> ... this is combined with the next one, which is resolved

... this is combined with the next one, which is resolved

16:22:14 <Arnaud> Guus: #13, wanted confirmation

Guus Schreiber: #13, wanted confirmation

16:22:34 <gavinc> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/n-triples.html#canonical-ntriples

Gavin Carothers: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-turtle/n-triples.html#canonical-ntriples

16:23:03 <Arnaud> AndyS: proposal is to have a section for canonical ntriples

Andy Seaborne: proposal is to have a section for canonical ntriples

16:23:39 <Arnaud> ... we don't test for this, so having this in the conformance section is wrong

... we don't test for this, so having this in the conformance section is wrong

16:25:20 <Arnaud> Guus: I take silence as consent on the editorial change

Guus Schreiber: I take silence as consent on the editorial change

16:25:23 <pfps> fine by me

Peter Patel-Schneider: fine by me

16:25:24 <PatH> +0

Patrick Hayes: +0

16:25:27 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

16:25:27 <Arnaud> davidwood: yes

David Wood: yes

16:25:42 <Arnaud> Guus: ok, that will become our official response then

Guus Schreiber: ok, that will become our official response then

16:25:56 <Arnaud> AndyS: ok, I will do that, I expect it to be accepted

Andy Seaborne: ok, I will do that, I expect it to be accepted

16:26:49 <Arnaud> gavinc: other issue that didn't come as comment on the list is on the last section on UTF8 triples, but don't expect the commenter to officially object

Gavin Carothers: other issue that didn't come as comment on the list is on the last section on UTF8 triples, but don't expect the commenter to officially object

16:27:40 <Arnaud> sandro: we should be procedurally careful and try to get him to say whether he intends to formally object

Sandro Hawke: we should be procedurally careful and try to get him to say whether he intends to formally object

16:27:53 <Arnaud> Guus: happy to take action for this

Guus Schreiber: happy to take action for this

16:28:12 <Arnaud> action: Guus to respond to Greg Williams

ACTION: Guus to respond to Greg Williams

<trackbot> Created ACTION-334 - Respond to Greg Williams [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-12-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-334 - Respond to Greg Williams [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-12-18].

16:28:47 <Arnaud> topic: Open issues

5. Open issues

16:28:57 <Arnaud> Guus: want to look at the non CR comment issues

Guus Schreiber: want to look at the non CR comment issues

16:29:05 <Arnaud> ... currently 13 open issues

... currently 13 open issues

16:29:21 <Arnaud> issue-78

ISSUE-78

16:29:21 <trackbot> issue-78 -- Document Convention for Using Datasets -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-78 -- Document Convention for Using Datasets -- open

16:29:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/78

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/78

16:29:34 <Arnaud> Guus: don't need to resolve it now

Guus Schreiber: don't need to resolve it now

16:29:38 <Arnaud> issue-83

ISSUE-83

16:29:38 <trackbot> issue-83 -- RDF/XML: Incorrect reference for use of HTML rel="meta" -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-83 -- RDF/XML: Incorrect reference for use of HTML rel="meta" -- open

16:29:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/83

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/83

16:29:56 <Arnaud> Guus: happened to resolve this while editing the doc this week

Guus Schreiber: happened to resolve this while editing the doc this week

16:30:09 <Arnaud> Proposal for ISSUE-83: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Dec/0106.html

Proposal for ISSUE-83: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Dec/0106.html

16:30:29 <AZ> Yes, remove

Antoine Zimmermann: Yes, remove

16:30:31 <pfps> <answer rel="meta" content="+1" />

Peter Patel-Schneider: <answer rel="meta" content="+1" />

16:30:32 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: remove the Section "Using RDF/XML with HTML and XHTML" [1],  as it is now obsolete.

PROPOSED: remove the Section "Using RDF/XML with HTML and XHTML" [1], as it is now obsolete.

16:30:37 <Zakim> +EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP

16:30:39 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:30:41 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

16:30:44 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

16:30:45 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

16:30:46 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

16:30:46 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

16:30:49 <markus> +1

Markus Lanthaler: +1

16:30:49 <gkellogg> +1

Gregg Kellogg: +1

16:30:52 <AndyS> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

16:30:54 <yvesr> +1

Yves Raimond: +1

16:30:57 <Zakim> -EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP

16:30:59 <tbaker> +1

Thomas Baker: +1

16:31:00 <Guus> +1

Guus Schreiber: +1

16:31:00 <Zakim> -EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP

16:31:04 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

16:31:13 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: remove the Section "Using RDF/XML with HTML and XHTML" [1],  as it is now obsolete.

RESOLVED: remove the Section "Using RDF/XML with HTML and XHTML" [1], as it is now obsolete.

16:31:50 <Arnaud> guus: issue-119 can be closed now that we have an action for it

Guus Schreiber: ISSUE-119 can be closed now that we have an action for it

16:32:12 <Zakim> +EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP

16:32:40 <Arnaud> issue-156

ISSUE-156

16:32:40 <trackbot> issue-156 -- Media type parameter for turtle -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-156 -- Media type parameter for turtle -- open

16:32:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/156

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/156

16:33:01 <Arnaud> guus: can we have a proposal for closing this?

Guus Schreiber: can we have a proposal for closing this?

16:33:25 <markus> it would require us to go back to LC if we make a change, right?

Markus Lanthaler: it would require us to go back to LC if we make a change, right?

16:33:27 <pfps> take no action sound good to me

Peter Patel-Schneider: take no action sound good to me

16:33:28 <Arnaud> proposed: close issue-156, taking no action

PROPOSED: close ISSUE-156, taking no action

16:33:49 <AndyS> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

16:33:53 <PatH> +0

Patrick Hayes: +0

16:33:54 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

16:33:58 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

16:33:59 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:34:03 <Guus> +1

Guus Schreiber: +1

16:34:08 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

16:34:08 <gkellogg> +1

Gregg Kellogg: +1

16:34:09 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

16:34:10 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

16:34:12 <ericP> +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1

16:34:13 <tbaker> +0

Thomas Baker: +0

16:34:13 <markus> +0

Markus Lanthaler: +0

16:34:34 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: close issue-156, taking no action

RESOLVED: close ISSUE-156, taking no action

16:34:52 <PatH> bad echo from Guus

Patrick Hayes: bad echo from Guus

16:34:55 <Arnaud> issue-169

ISSUE-169

16:34:55 <trackbot> issue-169 -- DOM4 dependency -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-169 -- DOM4 dependency -- open

16:34:55 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/169

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/169

16:35:45 <Arnaud> Guus: I think that takes care of the open issues

Guus Schreiber: I think that takes care of the open issues

16:35:51 <Arnaud> ... the rest is related to CR comments

... the rest is related to CR comments

16:36:17 <Arnaud> topic: PR decision for Syntax documents

6. PR decision for Syntax documents

16:36:33 <Arnaud> gavin: turtle still has feature at risk

Gavin Carothers: turtle still has feature at risk

16:37:02 <Arnaud> Guus: I asked for the docs to be updated and made ready

Guus Schreiber: I asked for the docs to be updated and made ready

16:37:11 <Arnaud> gavin: all of them are except for turtle

Gavin Carothers: all of them are except for turtle

16:37:56 <Arnaud> gavinc and eric discuss version management

gavinc and eric discuss version management

16:38:44 <Arnaud> gavinc: don't understand the resolutions

Gavin Carothers: don't understand the resolutions

16:38:54 <Arnaud> ... need someone else to write them down

... need someone else to write them down

16:39:01 <Arnaud> ericP: will do it

Eric Prud'hommeaux: will do it

16:39:25 <Arnaud> Guus: for the three other docs, not sure about the changes section

Guus Schreiber: for the three other docs, not sure about the changes section

16:39:38 <pfps> I just added a change section for Semantics (the only change was adding the change section)

Peter Patel-Schneider: I just added a change section for Semantics (the only change was adding the change section)

16:39:41 <Arnaud> ... don't see changes related to CR

... don't see changes related to CR

16:40:12 <Arnaud> ... I would prefer a named changes section

... I would prefer a named changes section

16:40:46 <Arnaud> ... not sure it makes sense to decide to send these to CR as is

... not sure it makes sense to decide to send these to CR as is

16:41:39 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: request the Director to advance Turtle, TriG, N-Triples and N-Quads to Proposed Recommendation, pending updates by the editors and confirmation by the chairs

PROPOSED: request the Director to advance Turtle, TriG, N-Triples and N-Quads to Proposed Recommendation, pending updates by the editors and confirmation by the chairs

16:41:47 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

16:41:48 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:41:49 <Arnaud> +1

+1

16:41:49 <gkellogg> +1

Gregg Kellogg: +1

16:41:50 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

16:41:50 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

16:41:51 <ericP> +1

Eric Prud'hommeaux: +1

16:41:52 <Guus> +1

Guus Schreiber: +1

16:41:52 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

16:41:52 <AndyS> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

16:41:54 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

16:41:54 <Souri> +1

Souripriya Das: +1

16:41:55 <yvesr> +1

Yves Raimond: +1

16:42:01 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

16:42:01 <markus> +1

Markus Lanthaler: +1

16:42:06 <sandro> +1 (updates as discussed just now)

Sandro Hawke: +1 (updates as discussed just now)

16:42:06 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: request the Director to advance Turtle, TriG, N-Triples and N-Quads to Proposed Recommendation, pending updates by the editors and confirmation by the chairs

RESOLVED: request the Director to advance Turtle, TriG, N-Triples and N-Quads to Proposed Recommendation, pending updates by the editors and confirmation by the chairs

16:42:10 <tbaker> +1

Thomas Baker: +1

16:42:47 <Arnaud> AndyS: trigg is ready

Andy Seaborne: trigg is ready

16:43:02 <Arnaud> Guus: don't see some comments to be reflected but will check

Guus Schreiber: don't see some comments to be reflected but will check

16:43:25 <Zakim> -EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP

16:43:27 <Arnaud> topic: Features at risk

7. Features at risk

16:43:42 <Arnaud> guus: only in the Concepts doc

Guus Schreiber: only in the Concepts doc

16:44:14 <Arnaud> ... rdf:HTML and rdf:XMLLiteral datatypes may be made non-normative

... rdf:HTML and rdf:XMLLiteral datatypes may be made non-normative

16:44:20 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

16:44:23 <Arnaud> ... could we agree to this now?

... could we agree to this now?

16:44:32 <Arnaud> ... would prefer not a long discussion

... would prefer not a long discussion

16:44:38 <Arnaud> ivan: don't think we have a choice

Ivan Herman: don't think we have a choice

16:44:41 <markus> lets make them non-normative.. basically the only way out

Markus Lanthaler: lets make them non-normative.. basically the only way out

16:44:50 <Arnaud> ... we can only make them non-normative

... we can only make them non-normative

16:44:58 <Arnaud> ... don't like it but that's the only option

... don't like it but that's the only option

16:45:00 <davidwood> yes, ok

David Wood: yes, ok

16:45:03 <Arnaud> markus: I agree

Markus Lanthaler: I agree

16:45:05 <pfps> my opinion is that I don't have an opinion

Peter Patel-Schneider: my opinion is that I don't have an opinion

16:45:15 <Arnaud> ... nothing would change in practice

... nothing would change in practice

16:45:24 <AndyS> q+

Andy Seaborne: q+

16:45:34 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan

16:45:37 <Arnaud> PatH: this means RDF processors are not obliged to recognize these, right?

Patrick Hayes: this means RDF processors are not obliged to recognize these, right?

16:45:39 <Guus> ack ivan

Guus Schreiber: ack ivan

16:45:42 <Arnaud> Guus: correct

Guus Schreiber: correct

16:45:52 <Arnaud> AndyS: what does this mean for RDF/XML?

Andy Seaborne: what does this mean for RDF/XML?

16:46:04 <PatH> Its already in hell.

Patrick Hayes: Its already in hell.

16:46:05 <Guus> ack AndyS

Guus Schreiber: ack AndyS

16:46:27 <PatH> +1 to Ivan

Patrick Hayes: +1 to Ivan

16:46:27 <Arnaud> ivan: that part can be considered as non-normative as well

Ivan Herman: that part can be considered as non-normative as well

16:46:44 <PatH> VOTE VOTE VOTE

Patrick Hayes: VOTE VOTE VOTE

16:47:18 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-rdf-syntax/#section-Syntax-XML-literals

Andy Seaborne: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-rdf-syntax/#section-Syntax-XML-literals

16:47:20 <Arnaud> Guus: I think we can leave that out for now

Guus Schreiber: I think we can leave that out for now

16:47:27 <Arnaud> ... let's have a vote

... let's have a vote

16:47:41 <Arnaud> sandro: we are not changing rdf/xml

Sandro Hawke: we are not changing rdf/xml

16:47:57 <AndyS> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/c73e11e79cfd/rdf-xml/Overview.html#section-Syntax-XML-literals

Andy Seaborne: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/c73e11e79cfd/rdf-xml/Overview.html#section-Syntax-XML-literals

16:48:35 <Arnaud> gavinc: I think we're ok, we didn't change anything

Gavin Carothers: I think we're ok, we didn't change anything

16:48:35 <sandro> gavin: The RDF/XML spec produces the lexical values, so that part still works

Gavin Carothers: The RDF/XML spec produces the lexical values, so that part still works [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:48:52 <PatH> Damn, I should have listened more carefully.

Patrick Hayes: Damn, I should have listened more carefully.

16:49:20 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: mark rdf:HTML and rdf:XMLLiteral as non-normative

PROPOSED: mark rdf:HTML and rdf:XMLLiteral as non-normative

16:49:25 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

16:49:36 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:49:38 <markus> +1

Markus Lanthaler: +1

16:49:39 <gkellogg> +1

Gregg Kellogg: +1

16:49:41 <PatH> Seamtnics already says they are non-N

Patrick Hayes: Seamtnics already says they are non-N

16:49:41 <tbaker> +1

Thomas Baker: +1

16:49:42 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

16:49:49 <Guus> +1

Guus Schreiber: +1

16:49:50 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

16:49:54 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

16:49:54 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

16:49:55 <Arnaud> gavinc: oh sh*t, we do refer to rdf:XMLLiteral in RDF/XML

Gavin Carothers: oh sh*t, we do refer to rdf:XMLLiteral in RDF/XML

16:49:56 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

16:49:57 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

16:49:59 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

16:50:24 <Arnaud> guus: we can deal with that separately

Guus Schreiber: we can deal with that separately

16:50:43 <Arnaud> gavinc: it's worse, but ok, let's talk about it later

Gavin Carothers: it's worse, but ok, let's talk about it later

16:50:51 <Souri> +1

Souripriya Das: +1

16:50:56 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: mark rdf:HTML and rdf:XMLLiteral as non-normative

RESOLVED: mark rdf:HTML and rdf:XMLLiteral as non-normative

16:51:07 <gavinc> <http://random.ioctl.org/#bar> <http://random.ioctl.org/#someProperty> ""^^<http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#XMLLiteral> .

Gavin Carothers: <http://random.ioctl.org/#bar> <http://random.ioctl.org/#someProperty> ""^^<http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#XMLLiteral> .

16:51:11 <gavinc> Best test ever

Gavin Carothers: Best test ever

16:51:18 <gavinc> works just fine for blank XML nodes ;)

Gavin Carothers: works just fine for blank XML nodes ;)

16:51:19 <Arnaud> ivan: I think RDF Schema will need to be changed

Ivan Herman: I think RDF Schema will need to be changed

16:51:25 <PatH> semantics says that these types are not required to be recognized.

Patrick Hayes: semantics says that these types are not required to be recognized.

16:51:29 <Arnaud> Guus: will take care of it

Guus Schreiber: will take care of it

16:52:04 <davidwood> Thanks, Markus.

David Wood: Thanks, Markus.

16:52:17 <Arnaud> topic: RDF Schema

8. RDF Schema

16:52:23 <pfps> semantics also says nothing about these two datatypes

Peter Patel-Schneider: semantics also says nothing about these two datatypes

16:52:28 <Arnaud> guus: draft ready, one review by ivan

Guus Schreiber: draft ready, one review by ivan

16:52:42 <Arnaud> ... one issue with the references to primer

... one issue with the references to primer

16:52:43 <gavinc> Ahh... right the LEXICAL space was Canonical XML not the value space

Gavin Carothers: Ahh... right the LEXICAL space was Canonical XML not the value space

16:52:54 <Arnaud> ... ivan thinks we should just drop the ref

... ivan thinks we should just drop the ref

16:53:07 <Arnaud> ... will make the old primer invisible

... will make the old primer invisible

16:53:43 <pfps> I think that we should just drop the reference in any case.

Peter Patel-Schneider: I think that we should just drop the reference in any case.

16:53:47 <PatH> Is there anything in the old primer that is now MISleading?

Patrick Hayes: Is there anything in the old primer that is now MISleading?

16:53:54 <Arnaud> ivan: a new release with a ref to an old primer is going to be confusing

Ivan Herman: a new release with a ref to an old primer is going to be confusing

16:53:59 <PatH> Ah the hell with it. Drop it.

Patrick Hayes: Ah the hell with it. Drop it.

16:54:00 <markus> +1 to what Ivan just said

Markus Lanthaler: +1 to what Ivan just said

16:54:06 <AZ> agree with Ivan

Antoine Zimmermann: agree with Ivan

16:54:10 <PatH> +1 to Ivan.

Patrick Hayes: +1 to Ivan.

16:54:15 <Arnaud> Guus: ok, let's remove them then

Guus Schreiber: ok, let's remove them then

16:55:06 <Arnaud> action: guus to remove reference to old primer from XML Schema

ACTION: guus to remove reference to old primer from XML Schema

16:55:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-332 - Remove reference to old primer from xml schema [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-12-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-332 - Remove reference to old primer from xml schema [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-12-18].

16:56:06 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: request Director to move RDF schema to Proposed Edited Rec

PROPOSED: request Director to move RDF schema to Proposed Edited Rec

16:56:11 <pfps> RDF Schema is ready to go, IMNSHO, after dropping the ref

Peter Patel-Schneider: RDF Schema is ready to go, IMNSHO, after dropping the ref

16:56:24 <PatH> Edited/editors

Patrick Hayes: Edited/editors

16:56:24 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

16:56:24 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

16:56:27 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

16:56:28 <gavinc> +1

Gavin Carothers: +1

16:56:29 <gkellogg> +1

Gregg Kellogg: +1

16:56:30 <pchampin> +1

Pierre-Antoine Champin: +1

16:56:31 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

16:56:31 <yvesr> +1

Yves Raimond: +1

16:56:33 <Souri> +1

Souripriya Das: +1

16:56:33 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

16:56:39 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: request Director to move RDF schema to Proposed Edited Rec

RESOLVED: request Director to move RDF schema to Proposed Edited Rec

16:56:43 <tbaker> +1

Thomas Baker: +1

16:56:48 <AZ> Isn't RDF Schema already a Proposed Edited Rec?

Antoine Zimmermann: Isn't RDF Schema already a Proposed Edited Rec?

16:56:54 <Arnaud> topic: RDF/XML

9. RDF/XML

16:56:55 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

16:57:18 <PatH> AZ, it certianly is now, anyway:-)

Patrick Hayes: AZ, it certianly is now, anyway:-)

16:57:24 <Arnaud> Guus: changes section list the changes

Guus Schreiber: changes section list the changes

16:57:26 <AZ> It's what the current version says

Antoine Zimmermann: It's what the current version says

16:57:41 <gkellogg> Update MT EARL report: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-mt/reports/index.html

Gregg Kellogg: Updated MT EARL report: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/raw-file/default/rdf-mt/reports/index.html

16:57:50 <Arnaud> ... main issue is with this XMLLiteral stuff

... main issue is with this XMLLiteral stuff

16:57:51 <gkellogg> s/Update/Updated/
16:58:03 <Arnaud> ... don't think we can make a decision this week

... don't think we can make a decision this week

16:58:24 <PatH> :)

Patrick Hayes: :)

16:59:06 <pchampin> sorry, I have to go; bye all

Pierre-Antoine Champin: sorry, I have to go; bye all

17:00:05 <Arnaud> action: gavin to make proposal to change RDF/XML to deal with rdf:XMLLiteral

ACTION: gavin to make proposal to change RDF/XML to deal with rdf:XMLLiteral

17:00:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-333 - Make proposal to change rdf/xml to deal with rdf:xmlliteral [on Gavin Carothers - due 2013-12-18].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-333 - Make proposal to change rdf/xml to deal with rdf:xmlliteral [on Gavin Carothers - due 2013-12-18].

17:00:09 <PatH> Boring is good.

Patrick Hayes: Boring is good.

17:00:30 <Arnaud> guus: ivan, could you review the changes?

Guus Schreiber: ivan, could you review the changes?

17:00:43 <Zakim> -Souri

Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri

17:00:44 <Arnaud> ivan: can't do it until next week

Ivan Herman: can't do it until next week

17:01:03 <Arnaud> ivan: let me know when the changes have been made

Ivan Herman: let me know when the changes have been made

17:01:24 <Arnaud> Guus: forgot to request for extension to 90mn for today's call

Guus Schreiber: forgot to request for extension to 90mn for today's call

17:01:31 <Arnaud> ... hope everyone can stay

... hope everyone can stay

17:01:40 <Arnaud> topic: Namespace document

10. Namespace document

17:01:49 <Arnaud> Guus: not sure what needs to be done

Guus Schreiber: not sure what needs to be done

17:02:09 <Arnaud> ... will get to it later

... will get to it later

17:02:17 <Arnaud> topic: What's new in RDF 1.1

11. What's new in RDF 1.1

17:02:43 <pfps> I think that David has done a great job!

Peter Patel-Schneider: I think that David has done a great job!

17:03:02 <Arnaud> davidwood: trying to make it useful to developers

David Wood: trying to make it useful to developers

17:03:21 <AZ> The document looks good in its current form

Antoine Zimmermann: The document looks good in its current form

17:03:26 <Arnaud> ... my feeling is we should make this a FPWD as quickly as possible

... my feeling is we should make this a FPWD as quickly as possible

17:03:46 <Arnaud> ... appendix A in concepts is out of date

... appendix A in concepts is out of date

17:04:16 <Arnaud> ... need to update that with a pointer to this doc

... need to update that with a pointer to this doc

17:04:18 <pfps> +1 to pointing, but can this be done from a PR to a FPWD?

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to pointing, but can this be done from a PR to a FPWD?

17:04:27 <sandro> yeah, if it's non-normative

Sandro Hawke: yeah, if it's non-normative

17:04:49 <davidwood> Thanks, pfps

David Wood: Thanks, pfps

17:05:21 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: remove appendix A from Concepts doc and replace with a pointer to the What's new in RDF 1.1 doc

PROPOSED: remove appendix A from Concepts doc and replace with a pointer to the What's new in RDF 1.1 doc

17:05:23 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

17:05:28 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

17:05:29 <yvesr> +1

Yves Raimond: +1

17:05:29 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

17:05:31 <markus> +1

Markus Lanthaler: +1

17:05:31 <Guus> +1

Guus Schreiber: +1

17:05:35 <tbaker> +1 - nice job

Thomas Baker: +1 - nice job

17:05:38 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

17:05:40 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

17:05:40 <AndyS> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

17:05:43 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

17:05:51 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

17:06:04 <gkellogg> _1

Gregg Kellogg: _1

17:06:06 <gkellogg> +1

Gregg Kellogg: +1

17:06:22 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: remove appendix A from Concepts doc and replace with a pointer to the What's new in RDF 1.1 doc

RESOLVED: remove appendix A from Concepts doc and replace with a pointer to the What's new in RDF 1.1 doc

17:06:40 <PatH> 1_1=1 Klein group.

Patrick Hayes: 1_1=1 Klein group.

17:06:52 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: publish What's new in RDF 1.1 as a FPWD

PROPOSED: publish What's new in RDF 1.1 as a FPWD

17:06:56 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

17:06:57 <yvesr> _1

Yves Raimond: _1

17:06:57 <AndyS> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

17:06:58 <davidwood> +1

David Wood: +1

17:06:59 <yvesr> +1

Yves Raimond: +1

17:06:59 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

17:07:01 <gkellogg> +1

Gregg Kellogg: +1

17:07:05 <tbaker> +1

Thomas Baker: +1

17:07:10 <pfps> +1, even in the current form

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1, even in the current form

17:07:22 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

17:07:23 <markus> +0

Markus Lanthaler: +0

17:07:45 <Arnaud> sandro: we could just publish it directly as a note

Sandro Hawke: we could just publish it directly as a note

17:07:50 <Arnaud> davidwood: not ready for that

David Wood: not ready for that

17:07:59 <Arnaud> Guus: respec doesn't handle that well

Guus Schreiber: respec doesn't handle that well

17:08:18 <tbaker> Maybe point to What's new from the Primer?

Thomas Baker: Maybe point to What's new from the Primer?

17:08:19 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

17:08:41 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: publish What's new in RDF 1.1 as a FPWD

RESOLVED: publish What's new in RDF 1.1 as a FPWD

17:09:14 <Arnaud> davidwood: what's needed to get this to be published as a Note next?

David Wood: what's needed to get this to be published as a Note next?

17:09:45 <Arnaud> Guus: suggest you plan for Dec 17, which is the last publication possible before the holiday break

Guus Schreiber: suggest you plan for Dec 17, which is the last publication possible before the holiday break

17:10:18 <Arnaud> Guus: can send the publication request when ready

Guus Schreiber: can send the publication request when ready

17:10:30 <Arnaud> davidwood: ok, will send a note to the WG when ready

David Wood: ok, will send a note to the WG when ready

17:10:31 <PatH> Who is the lady?

Patrick Hayes: Who is the lady?

17:10:37 <Arnaud> topic: Primer

12. Primer

17:11:42 <Arnaud> guus: markus thinks the json-ld example should be moved but that would make the text really long

Guus Schreiber: markus thinks the json-ld example should be moved but that would make the text really long

17:11:51 <Arnaud> ... would welcome WG input on this

... would welcome WG input on this

17:12:17 <Arnaud> markus: doesn't think this needs to make the text much longer

Markus Lanthaler: doesn't think this needs to make the text much longer

17:12:35 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

17:12:54 <Arnaud> ... but showing json-ld earlier in the doc would make it more visible to people who are familiar with json

... but showing json-ld earlier in the doc would make it more visible to people who are familiar with json

17:13:12 <Arnaud> guus: not opposed if people think it's a good idea

Guus Schreiber: not opposed if people think it's a good idea

17:13:38 <Arnaud> AndyS: I think this deflects the point of the document with different syntaxes

Andy Seaborne: I think this deflects the point of the document with different syntaxes

17:13:51 <Arnaud> Guus: propose we leave it as an open issue for now

Guus Schreiber: propose we leave it as an open issue for now

17:14:12 <Arnaud> markus: that's ok

Markus Lanthaler: that's ok

17:14:22 <Arnaud> ... you would keep it in the old place

... you would keep it in the old place

17:14:36 <Guus> q?

Guus Schreiber: q?

17:14:44 <gavinc> +q

Gavin Carothers: +q

17:14:53 <Arnaud> davidwood: it's hard to know in advance which serialization format will really take off

David Wood: it's hard to know in advance which serialization format will really take off

17:15:11 <Arnaud> ... years ago people thought it was going to be RDF/XML

... years ago people thought it was going to be RDF/XML

17:15:21 <Arnaud> ... not sure what it will be in 5 years from now

... not sure what it will be in 5 years from now

17:15:33 <PatH> NOt RDFa.

Patrick Hayes: NOt RDFa.

17:15:40 <yvesr> q+

Yves Raimond: q+

17:16:02 <sandro> +1 move on

Sandro Hawke: +1 move on

17:16:07 <yvesr> q-

Yves Raimond: q-

17:16:14 <Arnaud> ... given the interest in json, would prefer not to have it pushed to the back of the document

... given the interest in json, would prefer not to have it pushed to the back of the document

17:16:30 <Arnaud> guus: happy to discuss this later in January to get it right

Guus Schreiber: happy to discuss this later in January to get it right

17:16:38 <Arnaud> ... just don't think we should spend time on this now

... just don't think we should spend time on this now

17:16:41 <PatH> HOw about (q) for: I have something to say but will keep quiet for now.

Patrick Hayes: HOw about (q) for: I have something to say but will keep quiet for now.

17:17:01 <Arnaud> gavinc: should use SPARQL GRAPH syntax in the document

Gavin Carothers: should use SPARQL GRAPH syntax in the document

17:17:03 <AndyS> ack gavinc

Andy Seaborne: ack gavinc

17:17:10 <sandro> +1 use the GRAPH keyword and SPARQL style TriG

Sandro Hawke: +1 use the GRAPH keyword and SPARQL style TriG

17:17:47 <davidwood> +1 to use the GRAPH keyword and SPARQL style TriG, as per Sandro

David Wood: +1 to use the GRAPH keyword and SPARQL style TriG, as per Sandro

17:17:47 <gavinc> -1 to removing multi graph example

Gavin Carothers: -1 to removing multi graph example

17:17:58 <Arnaud> guus: ok

Guus Schreiber: ok

17:18:07 <yvesr> -1 as well - i think we can make it work with what's been proposed on the ml

Yves Raimond: -1 as well - i think we can make it work with what's been proposed on the ml

17:18:27 <Arnaud> guus: would like to have a FWD even if incomplete before Xmas

Guus Schreiber: would like to have a FPWD even if incomplete before Xmas

17:18:39 <Arnaud> s/FWD/FPWD/
17:19:02 <Arnaud> ... can we have an agreement on that, pending a proposal we will make to the WG?

... can we have an agreement on that, pending a proposal we will make to the WG?

17:19:07 <PatH> Hard to quarrel with that :-)

Patrick Hayes: Hard to quarrel with that :-)

17:20:07 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: publish Primer as FPWD, pending a proposal from the editors to provide a new multi-graph example to be used

PROPOSED: publish Primer as FPWD, pending a proposal from the editors to provide a new multi-graph example to be used

17:20:20 <AZ> +1

Antoine Zimmermann: +1

17:20:22 <PatH> which is acceptable to the WG, and failing that, the example will be omitted.

Patrick Hayes: which is acceptable to the WG, and failing that, the example will be omitted.

17:20:24 <Arnaud> guus: if people don't accept the proposal we won't publish

Guus Schreiber: if people don't accept the proposal we won't publish

17:20:24 <PatH> +1

Patrick Hayes: +1

17:20:36 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1

17:20:39 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

17:20:39 <tbaker> +1

Thomas Baker: +1

17:20:44 <gavinc> -0.9 INCLUDE a multi graph issue even if it's controversial

Gavin Carothers: -0.9 INCLUDE a multi graph issue even if it's controversial

17:20:56 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1

17:21:06 <TallTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1

17:21:13 <Arnaud> guus: we need to publish the doc so we can have a reference

Guus Schreiber: we need to publish the doc so we can have a reference

17:21:15 <sandro> (this is a FPWD *not* the Final Note)

Sandro Hawke: (this is a FPWD *not* the Final Note)

17:21:28 <markus> -0.5

Markus Lanthaler: -0.5

17:21:29 <Arnaud> it's just a FPWD so we can still change it later

it's just a FPWD so we can still change it later

17:21:40 <Arnaud> +1

+1

17:21:46 <markus> I got that it's just a FPWD.. the point is that we can publish the final note directly

Markus Lanthaler: I got that it's just a FPWD.. the point is that we can publish the final note directly

17:21:49 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: publish Primer as FPWD, pending a proposal from the editors to provide a new multi-graph example to be used

RESOLVED: publish Primer as FPWD, pending a proposal from the editors to provide a new multi-graph example to be used

17:21:52 <markus> no need to rush now

Markus Lanthaler: no need to rush now

17:21:58 <AndyS> +1

Andy Seaborne: +1

17:22:14 <Arnaud> topic: Dataset Semantics

13. Dataset Semantics

17:22:23 <Arnaud> Guus: was hoping for a draft

Guus Schreiber: was hoping for a draft

17:22:46 <Arnaud> AZ: almost finished, probably can publish a new version tomorrow

Antoine Zimmermann: almost finished, probably can publish a new version tomorrow

17:23:19 <Arnaud> ... was trying to make a concrete proposal on the datatype map issue

... was trying to make a concrete proposal on the datatype map issue

17:23:25 <PatH> I have to leave strictly at the half hour to catch a plane.

Patrick Hayes: I have to leave strictly at the half hour to catch a plane.

17:23:28 <Arnaud> guus: would rather publish it

Guus Schreiber: would rather publish it

17:23:55 <Arnaud> ... we may have to take an email vote on this

... we may have to take an email vote on this

17:23:59 <PatH> Are we voting here for a FPWD?

Patrick Hayes: Are we voting here for a FPWD?

17:24:17 <PatH> If so +1 from me now.

Patrick Hayes: If so +1 from me now.

17:24:20 <Arnaud> ... that would allow us to still make the Tuesday deadline

... that would allow us to still make the Tuesday deadline

17:24:32 <Arnaud> AZ: ok

Antoine Zimmermann: ok

17:24:51 <Arnaud> topic: AOB

14. AOB

17:25:21 <PatH> Thanks.

Patrick Hayes: Thanks.

17:25:27 <AZ> Zakim, who is noisy?

Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, who is noisy?

17:25:37 <Zakim> AZ, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: markus (58%), PatH (5%), Guus_Schreiber (69%), AndyS (61%), Arnaud (4%)

Zakim IRC Bot: AZ, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: markus (58%), PatH (5%), Guus_Schreiber (69%), AndyS (61%), Arnaud (4%)

17:25:58 <PatH> now muted

Patrick Hayes: now muted

17:26:16 <Arnaud> guus: would like to know where people stand on the datatype map issue at this point

Guus Schreiber: would like to know where people stand on the datatype map issue at this point

17:26:23 <AZ> q+

Antoine Zimmermann: q+

17:26:30 <pfps> I am perfectly happy with this way of proceeding - go forward over objection

Peter Patel-Schneider: I am perfectly happy with this way of proceeding - go forward over objection

17:26:40 <Arnaud> AZ: sent a proposal for some changes to Concepts and Semantics

Antoine Zimmermann: sent a proposal for some changes to Concepts and Semantics

17:27:01 <Arnaud> ... found that there are very few places where changes need to be made to satisfy my needs

... found that there are very few places where changes need to be made to satisfy my needs

17:27:19 <Arnaud> guus: ok but if editors don't think the changes are appropriate we can't force them

Guus Schreiber: ok but if editors don't think the changes are appropriate we can't force them

17:27:42 <PatH> FWIW, I volunteer to draft one paragraph for Semantics which I think should resolve some of Michael's and Antoine's pain and not require any changes to other documents.

Patrick Hayes: FWIW, I volunteer to draft one paragraph for Semantics which I think should resolve some of Michael's and Antoine's pain and not require any changes to other documents.

17:27:46 <Arnaud> AZ: this is my last chance to get this done

Antoine Zimmermann: this is my last chance to get this done

17:27:53 <Arnaud> PatH: haven't had a chance to look at them yet

Patrick Hayes: haven't had a chance to look at them yet

17:28:09 <PatH> But I will look at Antoine's suggestions first and take them into account.

Patrick Hayes: But I will look at Antoine's suggestions first and take them into account.

17:28:27 <Arnaud> markus: is that really changing anything?

Markus Lanthaler: is that really changing anything?

17:28:42 <Arnaud> ... or just providing a definition to be reused?

... or just providing a definition to be reused?

17:29:23 <Arnaud> PatH: think Michael's objection is related to potential substantive changes required in his document

Patrick Hayes: think Michael's objection is related to potential substantive changes required in his document

17:29:48 <sandro> "his document" being OWL 2 RDF-Based Semantics

Sandro Hawke: "his document" being OWL 2 RDF-Based Semantics

17:29:53 <Arnaud> ... but I will look at it and let the WG know

... but I will look at it and let the WG know

17:30:06 <Zakim> -yvesr

Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr

17:30:23 <PatH> East bay, Hayward, mostly. BUt bay area.

Patrick Hayes: East bay, Hayward, mostly. BUt bay area.

17:31:03 <Arnaud> AZ: really very few changes are needed

Antoine Zimmermann: really very few changes are needed

17:31:47 <PatH> I think Antoine and I are converging.

Patrick Hayes: I think Antoine and I are converging.

17:32:03 <Arnaud> ... the idea is to add two definitions that can be reused

... the idea is to add two definitions that can be reused

17:32:25 <pfps> Pat's changes appear to be more minimal - which would be preferable.

Peter Patel-Schneider: Pat's changes appear to be more minimal - which would be preferable.

17:32:30 <PatH> Gotta go.

Patrick Hayes: Gotta go.

17:32:32 <Arnaud> Guus: one big stumbling block: one more implementation of the semantics tests

Guus Schreiber: one big stumbling block: one more implementation of the semantics tests

17:32:45 <Zakim> -PatH

Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH

17:32:48 <Arnaud> ... editors, please have the documents ready for next week

... editors, please have the documents ready for next week

17:32:59 <Arnaud> * ADJOURNED *

* ADJOURNED *

17:33:11 <PatH> OK. Peter, I will be working inside respec, can you help wioth the final cut?

Patrick Hayes: OK. Peter, I will be working inside respec, can you help wioth the final cut?

17:33:13 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

17:33:22 <Zakim> -AndyS

Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS

17:33:23 <Zakim> -AZ

Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ

17:33:24 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

17:34:35 <Zakim> -pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps

17:34:45 <Guus> trackbot, end meeting

Guus Schreiber: trackbot, end meeting

17:34:45 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees

17:34:45 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Guus_Schreiber, GavinC, pfps, TallTed, pchampin, AndyS, Arnaud, EricP, yvesr, Ivan, +33.4.77.42.aaaa, AZ, gkellogg, David_Wood, Sandro,

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Guus_Schreiber, GavinC, pfps, TallTed, pchampin, AndyS, Arnaud, EricP, yvesr, Ivan, +33.4.77.42.aaaa, AZ, gkellogg, David_Wood, Sandro,

17:34:48 <Zakim> ... markus, Souri, PatH, EricP

Zakim IRC Bot: ... markus, Souri, PatH, EricP

17:34:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes

17:34:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/11-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/12/11-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot

17:34:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye

17:34:54 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/11-rdf-wg-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/11-rdf-wg-actions.rdf :

<RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus to respond to Greg Williams [1]

ACTION: Guus to respond to Greg Williams [1]

17:34:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: guus to remove reference to old primer from XML Schema [2]

ACTION: guus to remove reference to old primer from XML Schema [2]

17:34:54 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/11-rdf-wg-irc#T16-55-06

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/11-rdf-wg-irc#T16-55-06

17:34:54 <RRSAgent> ACTION: gavin to make proposal to change RDF/XML to deal with rdf:XMLLiteral [3]

ACTION: gavin to make proposal to change RDF/XML to deal with rdf:XMLLiteral [3]

17:34:54 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/11-rdf-wg-irc#T17-00-05

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/12/11-rdf-wg-irc#T17-00-05

17:35:07 <Zakim> -markus

Zakim IRC Bot: -markus



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