edit

RDF Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 05 June 2013

Agenda
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.06.05
Seen
Andy Seaborne, Arnaud Le Hors, David Wood, Gavin Carothers, Gregg Kellogg, Guus Schreiber, Markus Lanthaler, Peter Patel-Schneider, Sandro Hawke, Ted Thibodeau
Chair
Guus Schreiber
Scribe
Andy Seaborne
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. Accept the minutes of https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-05-29 link
Topics
14:54:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-rdf-wg-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-rdf-wg-irc

14:54:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world

14:54:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394

14:54:34 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes

14:54:35 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:54:35 <trackbot> Date: 05 June 2013
14:54:55 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started

14:55:04 <Zakim> +GavinC

Zakim IRC Bot: +GavinC

14:56:30 <Zakim> +pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps

14:58:47 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller]

14:58:53 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me

Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPCaller is me

14:58:53 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it

14:59:24 <Zakim> +Guus

Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus

14:59:35 <Guus> zakim, who is here?

Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here?

14:59:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see GavinC, pfps, AndyS, Guus

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see GavinC, pfps, AndyS, Guus

14:59:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see pfps, tbaker, gkellogg, davidwood, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, markus, TallTed, AndyS, SteveH, Arnaud, gavinc, manu1, manu, sandro, trackbot, yvesr, ericP, mischat

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pfps, tbaker, gkellogg, davidwood, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, markus, TallTed, AndyS, SteveH, Arnaud, gavinc, manu1, manu, sandro, trackbot, yvesr, ericP, mischat

14:59:38 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

14:59:50 <AndyS> Suggestion - could plan for TriG, NQ, NT LC's  today? Process, not technical discussion.

Andy Seaborne: Suggestion - could plan for TriG, NQ, NT LC's today? Process, not technical discussion.

15:01:11 <Zakim> +gkellogg

Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg

15:02:06 <Zakim> +Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud

15:02:32 <Zakim> +??P39

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P39

15:02:33 <Zakim> +davidwood

Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood

15:02:34 <markus> zakim, ??P39 is me

Markus Lanthaler: zakim, ??P39 is me

15:02:35 <Zakim> +markus; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +markus; got it

15:02:43 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software

Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software

15:02:50 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me

15:02:50 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it

15:02:51 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me

Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me

15:02:51 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted

15:02:55 <AndyS> We've gone so far through that it would be nice to be RECified for NT, NQ. Also - advance TriG to LC

Andy Seaborne: We've gone so far through that it would be nice to be RECified for NT, NQ. Also - advance TriG to LC

15:03:00 <sandro> 2012/10/30-rdf-wg RESOLVED:  We'll do N-Triples and N-Quads in one REC-track documents, title to be decided

Sandro Hawke: 2012/10/30-rdf-wg RESOLVED: We'll do N-Triples and N-Quads in one REC-track documents, title to be decided

15:03:44 <sandro> 2013/03/13-rdf-wg RESOLVED:  take TriG, n-triples and n-quads to FPWD according to  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Mar/0091.html

Sandro Hawke: 2013/03/13-rdf-wg RESOLVED: take TriG, n-triples and n-quads to FPWD according to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Mar/0091.html

15:05:22 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?

Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone?

15:05:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see GavinC, pfps, AndyS, Guus, Sandro, gkellogg, Arnaud, markus, davidwood, TallTed (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see GavinC, pfps, AndyS, Guus, Sandro, gkellogg, Arnaud, markus, davidwood, TallTed (muted)

15:05:33 <AndyS> scribenick: AndyS

(Scribe set to Andy Seaborne)

15:05:40 <AndyS> scribe: Andy Seaborne
15:05:53 <AndyS> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.06.05
15:05:56 <Guus> chair: Guus
15:07:04 <AndyS> (pre meeting discussion - we need to track down the resolved status of NT and NQ docs)

(pre meeting discussion - we need to track down the resolved status of NT and NQ docs)

<AndyS> topic: Admin

1. Admin

15:07:08 <pfps> miinutes look good

Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes look good

15:07:17 <pfps> s/miinutes/minutes
15:07:28 <AndyS> RESOLVED: Accept the minutes of https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-05-29

RESOLVED: Accept the minutes of https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/rdf-wg/2013-05-29

15:07:45 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

15:07:52 <gavinc> +q to ask who is sending messages to comments about the PREFIX/BASE resolution

Gavin Carothers: +q to ask who is sending messages to comments about the PREFIX/BASE resolution

15:08:54 <AndyS> Guus: open actions - http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/open

Guus Schreiber: open actions - http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/open

15:09:22 <AndyS> Guus: open actions - http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open

Guus Schreiber: open actions - http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open

15:09:38 <pfps> Semantics needs a tiny bit of work on references, including action 219 - I'll try to get these done

Peter Patel-Schneider: Semantics needs a tiny bit of work on references, including ACTION-219 - I'll try to get these done

15:10:04 <AndyS> Guus: process discussions for TriG, NT, NQ

Guus Schreiber: process discussions for TriG, NT, NQ

15:10:16 <AndyS> ... keep semantics discussions short

... keep semantics discussions short

15:10:28 <AndyS> topic: LC for concepts and semantics

2. LC for concepts and semantics

15:10:43 <AndyS> Guus: issue-131

Guus Schreiber: ISSUE-131

15:11:14 <AndyS> ... Sandro options 1-6 in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Jun/0025.html

... Sandro options 1-6 in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Jun/0025.html

15:11:14 <pfps> fine by me

Peter Patel-Schneider: fine by me

15:12:23 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Jun/0025.html

STRAWPOLL: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2013Jun/0025.html

15:12:24 <pfps> 6 options - there are only 5 in the email

Peter Patel-Schneider: 6 options - there are only 5 in the issue

15:13:07 <pfps> s/email/issue/
15:13:23 <pfps> we are talking about the six "D" issues in the email

Peter Patel-Schneider: we are talking about the six "D" issues in the email

15:13:38 <AndyS> options are -- D1 to D6 in email of 4 June

options are -- D1 to D6 in email of 4 June

15:14:01 <AndyS> sandro: extension approach, not required core

Sandro Hawke: extension approach, not required core

15:14:38 <AndyS> ... on bound semantics

... on bound semantics

15:14:52 <AndyS> q+

q+

15:15:18 <Guus> ack pfps

Guus Schreiber: ack pfps

15:15:21 <AndyS> ack me

ack me

15:15:28 <davidwood> ack gavinc

David Wood: ack gavinc

15:15:28 <Zakim> gavinc, you wanted to ask who is sending messages to comments about the PREFIX/BASE resolution

Zakim IRC Bot: gavinc, you wanted to ask who is sending messages to comments about the PREFIX/BASE resolution

15:15:29 <Guus> ack gavinc

Guus Schreiber: ack gavinc

15:16:40 <AndyS> sandro: was going to present a design - didn't think it would fly in the WG after private review

Sandro Hawke: was going to present a design - didn't think it would fly in the WG after private review

15:16:54 <AndyS> ... want to address issue-131 at the same time.

... want to address ISSUE-131 at the same time.

15:17:06 <sandro> +1 +1 +0 -0 -0 -1

Sandro Hawke: +1 +1 +0 -0 -0 -1

15:17:18 <pfps> this is all a *change* to the way RDF works - who is going to make sure that it all fits together?

Peter Patel-Schneider: this is all a *change* to the way RDF works - who is going to make sure that it all fits together?

15:17:25 <gkellogg> strawpoll -- D1: +1, D2: +0.9, D3: +0.4, D4: +0.3, D5: +0, D6: -1

Gregg Kellogg: strawpoll -- D1: +1, D2: +0.9, D3: +0.4, D4: +0.3, D5: +0, D6: -1

15:17:34 <pfps> D1 -1; D2 -1; D3 -0.5; D4 -0.4; D5 0; D6 -2 (as this would violate the way RDF extensions work)

Peter Patel-Schneider: D1 -1; D2 -1; D3 -0.5; D4 -0.4; D5 0; D6 -2 (as this would violate the way RDF extensions work)

15:17:50 <markus> strawpoll -- D1: +1, D2: +0.5, D3: 0, D4: -0.8, D5: -1 (can't really see how this is different to D6), D6: -1

Markus Lanthaler: strawpoll -- D1: +1, D2: +0.5, D3: 0, D4: -0.8, D5: -1 (can't really see how this is different to D6), D6: -1

15:17:51 <davidwood> +1 +1 +1 +1 +0 −0.5 (chair hat off)

David Wood: +1 +1 +1 +1 +0 −0.5 (chair hat off)

15:17:55 <gavinc> strawpoll -- D1: -1 D2: -0.9 D3: +1 D4: +0 D5: -0 D6: -0

Gavin Carothers: strawpoll -- D1: -1 D2: -0.9 D3: +1 D4: +0 D5: -0 D6: -0

15:18:20 <AndyS> D3, D4, D5 +1 D6: -1   D1, D2 hard to say due to details.

D3, D4, D5 +1 D6: -1 D1, D2 hard to say due to details.

15:18:41 <AndyS> pfps: worried that a technical fault emerges just after REC declared.

Peter Patel-Schneider: worried that a technical fault emerges just after REC declared.

15:18:52 <TallTed> D1 +1, D2 +0.7, D3 +0.5, D4 +0.3, D5 +0, D6 -1

Ted Thibodeau: D1 +1, D2 +0.7, D3 +0.5, D4 +0.3, D5 +0, D6 -1

15:19:13 <AndyS> ... don't like D6

... don't like D6

15:20:54 <AndyS> I want to see the other usages (e.g. label=location) documented, (inc with the issues of the approach)

I want to see the other usages (e.g. label=location) documented, (inc with the issues of the approach)

15:21:11 <AndyS> I am also concerned that one technical choice (in docs) does not prove to be the only one.

I am also concerned that one technical choice (in docs) does not prove to be the only one.

15:21:38 <gavinc> THere is no support for D6! Lets stop talking about it :P

Gavin Carothers: THere is no support for D6! Lets stop talking about it :P

15:22:00 <sandro> sandro: I want to make sure we don't ACCIDENTALLY end up in D6.

Sandro Hawke: I want to make sure we don't ACCIDENTALLY end up in D6. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:22:02 <pfps> the question is whether there is *some* way to add graphs into the RDF semantics, this is related to D6

Peter Patel-Schneider: the question is whether there is *some* way to add graphs into the RDF semantics, this is related to D6

15:22:48 <AndyS> Guus: including people not on call, D3 looks like the leader.

Guus Schreiber: including people not on call, D3 looks like the leader.

15:23:25 <pfps> D1 is to add a *particular* way to add graphs to the RDF semantics, which could have problems

Peter Patel-Schneider: D1 is to add a *particular* way to add graphs to the RDF semantics, which could have problems

15:23:42 <gavinc> exactly, there is at this point not enough time to do D1

Gavin Carothers: exactly, there is at this point not enough time to do D1

15:24:04 <AndyS> guus: will set up WBS and resolve next week.

Guus Schreiber: will set up WBS and resolve next week.

15:24:09 <pfps> the speed required to approve D1 is very problematics

Peter Patel-Schneider: the speed required to approve D1 is very problematics

15:24:47 <markus> pfps, D1 says "We include *something* like bound semantics [1] and blank-node-graph-names in rdf-concepts"

Markus Lanthaler: pfps, D1 says "We include *something* like bound semantics [1] and blank-node-graph-names in rdf-concepts"

15:25:20 <AndyS> ACTION: Guus: set up WBS on bound semantics

ACTION: Guus: set up WBS on bound semantics

15:25:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-269 - Set up WBS on bound semantics [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-06-12].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-269 - Set up WBS on bound semantics [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-06-12].

15:25:38 <gavinc> Yes, but markus we don't have a design, implementations, or consensus after trying for 2 years.

Gavin Carothers: Yes, but markus we don't have a design, implementations, or consensus after trying for 2 years.

15:25:47 <pfps> +1 to gavin

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to gavin

15:26:37 <AndyS> subtopic: raised issues (semantics and concepts)

2.1. raised issues (semantics and concepts)

15:26:38 <pfps> my belief is that issue-120 has been determined, as "yes"

Peter Patel-Schneider: my belief is that ISSUE-120 has been determined, as "yes"

15:26:59 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/raised

http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/raised

15:27:39 <markus> gavinc, agreed but this strawpoll was to see if there's consensus to do something at all

Markus Lanthaler: gavinc, agreed but this strawpoll was to see if there's consensus to do something at all

15:27:55 <pfps> semantics now firmly defines union (new) and merge (no change)

Peter Patel-Schneider: semantics now firmly defines union (new) and merge (no change)

15:28:21 <pfps> issue-122 is left to surface syntaxes

Peter Patel-Schneider: ISSUE-122 is left to surface syntaxes

15:28:34 <AndyS> guus: close issue 122 sugegsted but Pat raised an issue with the issue.

Guus Schreiber: close ISSUE-122 sugegsted but Pat raised an issue with the issue.

15:28:56 <AndyS> ... to do with bnode labels on graphs

... to do with bnode labels on graphs

15:29:02 <AndyS> pfps: how?

Peter Patel-Schneider: how?

15:29:17 <AndyS> davidwood: process?

David Wood: process?

15:29:44 <gavinc> 122... I'm assuming that's now TriGs issue? :\

Gavin Carothers: 122... I'm assuming that's now TriGs issue? :\

15:30:04 <AndyS> guus: assumption is that these raised issues are dropped

Guus Schreiber: assumption is that these raised issues are dropped

15:30:04 <sandro> issue-127?

Sandro Hawke: ISSUE-127?

15:30:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-127 -- Comment: multiple ways to encode string codepoints -- raised

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-127 -- Comment: multiple ways to encode string codepoints -- raised

15:30:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/127

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/127

15:30:07 <pfps> issue 127 appears to be related to surface syntaxes

Peter Patel-Schneider: ISSUE-127 appears to be related to surface syntaxes

15:30:26 <AndyS> Guus: issue-127 - not about semantics or concepts

Guus Schreiber: ISSUE-127 - not about semantics or concepts

15:31:04 <AndyS> subtopic: Open issues (semantics and concepts)

2.2. Open issues (semantics and concepts)

15:31:26 <AndyS> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/open (time varying link :-)

http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/open (time varying link :-)

15:31:38 <AndyS> Guus: issue-23 -

Guus Schreiber: ISSUE-23 -

15:31:42 <AndyS> issue-23?

ISSUE-23?

15:31:42 <trackbot> ISSUE-23 -- Does going from single-graph to multi-graph require new format and new media types? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-23 -- Does going from single-graph to multi-graph require new format and new media types? -- open

15:31:42 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/23

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/23

15:32:31 <AndyS> gavin: resolved by leaving to each syntax

Gavin Carothers: resolved by leaving to each syntax

15:32:47 <AndyS> guus: please offer to write resolution text ...

Guus Schreiber: please offer to write resolution text ...

15:32:56 <AndyS> gavinc: Ok - I'll do it.

Gavin Carothers: Ok - I'll do it.

15:33:19 <sandro> issue-102?

Sandro Hawke: ISSUE-102?

15:33:19 <trackbot> ISSUE-102 -- Shall we highlight Turtle's list structures as "Well-Formed Lists" in one of our Recs? -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-102 -- Shall we highlight Turtle's list structures as "Well-Formed Lists" in one of our Recs? -- open

15:33:19 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/102

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/102

15:33:22 <pfps> i vote "no" for issue-102

Peter Patel-Schneider: i vote "no" for ISSUE-102

15:33:23 <AndyS> action: gavinc: Write resolution text for issue-23

ACTION: gavinc: Write resolution text for ISSUE-23

15:33:23 <trackbot> Error finding 'gavinc'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.

Trackbot IRC Bot: Error finding 'gavinc'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/users>.

15:33:56 <gavinc> ACTION: gavin: write resolution text for issue-23

ACTION: gavin: write resolution text for ISSUE-23

15:33:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-270 - Write resolution text for issue-23 [on Gavin Carothers - due 2013-06-12].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-270 - Write resolution text for ISSUE-23 [on Gavin Carothers - due 2013-06-12].

15:34:28 <AndyS> pfps: make a primer issue for 102

Peter Patel-Schneider: make a primer issue for 102

15:34:47 <AndyS> sandro: informative section of concepts? schema?

Sandro Hawke: informative section of concepts? schema?

15:35:41 <AndyS> sandro: advanced people to read this - they may skip primer.

Sandro Hawke: advanced people to read this - they may skip primer.

15:36:04 <AndyS> .. does the WG agree with the statement of issue-102

.. does the WG agree with the statement of ISSUE-102

15:36:53 <AndyS> AndyS: two audiences? data publishers, and implementers.

Andy Seaborne: two audiences? data publishers, and implementers.

15:37:16 <davidwood> q+ to say that there has never been a requirement that implementations store triples.

David Wood: q+ to say that there has never been a requirement that implementations store triples.

15:37:20 <AndyS> sandro: people who are constructing triple patterns need to be aware of this.

Sandro Hawke: people who are constructing triple patterns probably should to be aware of this.

15:37:31 <sandro> s/need/probably should/
15:37:41 <sandro> :-)

Sandro Hawke: :-)

15:37:45 <AndyS> guus: suggest move to primer

Guus Schreiber: suggest move to primer

15:38:19 <AndyS> davidwood: could drop?  We don't usually talk about impls.

David Wood: could drop? We don't usually talk about impls.

15:38:55 <AndyS> sandro: old RDF spec had wellformed lists is mapped to Turtle and JSON-LD lists.  ?? in RDFS?

Sandro Hawke: old RDF spec had wellformed lists is mapped to Turtle and JSON-LD lists. ?? in RDFS?

15:39:38 <AndyS> guus: no relation to concepts or semantics so not an issue for them

Guus Schreiber: no relation to concepts or semantics so not an issue for them

15:39:48 <AndyS> ... next issues 112 113

... next issues 112 113

15:40:04 <AndyS> ... previous comments from the list

... previous comments from the list

15:40:20 <AndyS> ... needs checking

... needs checking

15:40:26 <AndyS> ISSUE-112?

ISSUE-112?

15:40:26 <trackbot> ISSUE-112 -- Media types and assertions -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-112 -- Media types and assertions -- open

15:40:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/112

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/112

15:40:30 <AndyS> ISSUE-113?

ISSUE-113?

15:40:30 <trackbot> ISSUE-113 -- RDF Keys -- open

Trackbot IRC Bot: ISSUE-113 -- RDF Keys -- open

15:40:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/113

Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/issues/113

15:40:33 <pfps> issue 112 refers to an email from 9 years ago!

Peter Patel-Schneider: ISSUE-112 refers to an email from 9 years ago!

15:40:37 <AndyS> guus: volunteers?

Guus Schreiber: volunteers?

15:40:50 <AndyS> ...

...

15:41:42 <pfps> I can sent a message to Mark Baker

Peter Patel-Schneider: I can sent a message to Mark Baker

15:41:42 <AndyS> ... we don't think they affect semantics and concepts

... we don't think they affect semantics and concepts

15:41:51 <AndyS> ... assume not relevant

... assume not relevant

15:42:28 <davidwood> q?

David Wood: q?

15:42:29 <AndyS> Guus: That leaves open issue 131

Guus Schreiber: That leaves open ISSUE-131

15:42:31 <davidwood> ack me

David Wood: ack me

15:42:31 <Zakim> davidwood, you wanted to say that there has never been a requirement that implementations store triples.

Zakim IRC Bot: davidwood, you wanted to say that there has never been a requirement that implementations store triples.

15:42:46 <AndyS> ... and the WBS poll on bound datasets

... and the WBS poll on bound datasets

15:42:54 <AndyS> guus: process

Guus Schreiber: process

15:42:58 <AndyS> ... 4 reviewers

... 4 reviewers

15:43:04 <AndyS> ... semantics

... semantics

15:43:12 <AndyS> ... ivan has done an initial review

... ivan has done an initial review

15:43:51 <AndyS> ... antoine to do another

... antoine to do another

15:44:06 <AndyS> pfps: no significant items in ivans review

Peter Patel-Schneider: no significant items in ivans review

15:46:12 <pfps> hmm.  this indicates that semantics / concepts need to be changed to move from "can't" to "doesn't necessarily"

Peter Patel-Schneider: hmm. this indicates that semantics / concepts need to be changed to move from "can't" to "doesn't necessarily"

15:46:42 <AndyS> guus: concepts

Guus Schreiber: concepts

15:46:53 <AndyS> .. reviewers Guus and PFPS.

.. reviewers Guus and PFPS.

15:47:08 <AndyS> pfps: previous review was done

Peter Patel-Schneider: previous review was done

15:47:40 <AndyS> davidwood: no matters arising from pfps review

David Wood: no matters arising from pfps review

15:48:11 <AndyS> guus:  in two weeks can we have LC drafts for concepts and semantics?

Guus Schreiber: in two weeks can we have LC drafts for concepts and semantics?

15:48:44 <pfps> two weeks should be feasible if there are no required technical changes, and the editors produce changes that are acceptable to the reviewers

Peter Patel-Schneider: two weeks should be feasible if there are no required technical changes, and the editors produce changes that are acceptable to the reviewers

15:48:50 <AndyS> pfps: resolving to ivan - OK - other small changes then good to go.  Some editor overhead to respond to changes.

Peter Patel-Schneider: resolving to ivan - OK - other small changes then good to go. Some editor overhead to respond to changes.

15:49:28 <AndyS> davidwood: much the same - need to check recent edits - but ex issue 131 - looks OK for that timescale

David Wood: much the same - need to check recent edits - but ex ISSUE-131 - looks OK for that timescale

15:49:43 <AndyS> guus: 2 weeks ideal, latest 3 weeks.  Is there time?

Guus Schreiber: 2 weeks ideal, latest 3 weeks. Is there time?

15:49:54 <pfps> I'll do some work on the edits today or tomorrow

Peter Patel-Schneider: I'll do some work on the edits today or tomorrow

15:50:12 <AndyS> davidwood: had factored in some time next week

David Wood: had factored in some time next week

15:50:26 <AndyS> guus: option - features at risk

Guus Schreiber: option - features at risk

15:51:07 <AndyS> sandro: feature at risk - issue-131 and related - relative IRIs unclear as to proposal in detail.

Sandro Hawke: feature at risk - ISSUE-131 and related - relative IRIs unclear as to proposal in detail.

15:51:20 <AndyS> topic: Turtle process

3. Turtle process

15:51:49 <AndyS> guus: test suite, feature at risk resolved.

Guus Schreiber: test suite, feature at risk resolved.

15:52:18 <AndyS> gavinc: need someone to write to the external commenters

Gavin Carothers: need someone to write to the external commenters

15:52:31 <AndyS> guus: suggest Eric is asked

Guus Schreiber: suggest Eric is asked

15:52:39 <AndyS> gavinc: fine

Gavin Carothers: fine

15:53:35 <AndyS> action: guus: Ask EricP to respond to the feature at risk commenters re PREFIX

ACTION: guus: Ask EricP to respond to the feature at risk commenters re PREFIX

15:53:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-271 - Ask EricP to respond to the feature at risk commenters re PREFIX [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-06-12].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-271 - Ask EricP to respond to the feature at risk commenters re PREFIX [on Guus Schreiber - due 2013-06-12].

15:54:11 <AndyS> gavinc: exact details on the PREFIX impl - some people say they will go further.

Gavin Carothers: exact details on the PREFIX impl - some people say they will go further.

15:54:45 <AndyS> ... and trailing dot on PREFIX

... and trailing dot on PREFIX

15:55:39 <AndyS> andys: I implement the feature at risk.

Andy Seaborne: I implement the feature at risk.

15:56:14 <AndyS> gavinc: grammar not quite right (WS betweet @ and word)

Gavin Carothers: grammar not quite right (WS betweet @ and word)

15:56:37 <AndyS> ... trailing DOT in SPARQL unliked by AndyS

... trailing DOT in SPARQL unliked by AndyS

15:56:57 <AndyS> ... unclear about case sensitivity of @prefix

... unclear about case sensitivity of @prefix

15:57:57 <Guus> zakim, who is talking?

Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is talking?

15:58:08 <Zakim> Guus, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (20%), Sandro (30%), gkellogg (9%)

Zakim IRC Bot: Guus, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (20%), Sandro (30%), gkellogg (9%)

15:58:46 <Zakim> -Guus

Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus

15:59:00 <AndyS> gregg: fine with no DOT version if no negative tests for it.

Gregg Kellogg: fine with no DOT version if no negative tests for it.

15:59:10 <sandro> gavin: NONE of the negative syntax text are Normative.

Gavin Carothers: NONE of the negative syntax text are Normative. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:59:25 <AndyS> gavinc: negative tests are not really as normative because its outside the grammar

Gavin Carothers: negative tests are not really as normative because its outside the grammar

15:59:29 <Zakim> +Guus

Zakim IRC Bot: +Guus

15:59:44 <sandro> gregg: so remove them from test results?

Gregg Kellogg: so remove them from test results? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

15:59:53 <sandro> andy: I have a "strict" flag

Andy Seaborne: I have a "strict" flag [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ]

16:00:04 <gavinc> base <http://one.example/> <subject> <predicate> <object>

Gavin Carothers: base <http://one.example/> <subject> <predicate> <object>

16:01:13 <AndyS> sandro: concensus on case insensitive of @prefix?

Sandro Hawke: concensus on case insensitive of @prefix?

16:01:18 <AndyS> gavinc: maybe

Gavin Carothers: maybe

16:01:38 <AndyS> ... issue around "a"

... issue around "a"

16:01:40 <sandro> PROPOSE -- make @prefix and @base case insenstive

Sandro Hawke: PROPOSE -- make @prefix and @base case insenstive

16:01:59 <sandro> (hearing consensus)

Sandro Hawke: (hearing consensus)

16:03:27 <AndyS> sandro: what about all case insensitive, remove neg tests on PREFIX-DOT

Sandro Hawke: what about all case insensitive, remove neg tests on PREFIX-DOT

16:04:08 <AndyS> gavinc: say for compatibilty write trad forms.

Gavin Carothers: say for compatibilty write trad forms.

16:04:21 <AndyS> guus: next week status of TriG, NT, NQ

Guus Schreiber: next week status of TriG, NT, NQ

16:04:56 <AndyS> gavinc: test - NT, NQ to REC?

Gavin Carothers: test - NT, NQ to REC?

16:05:23 <Zakim> -Guus

Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus

16:05:26 <Zakim> -Arnaud

Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud

16:05:29 <AndyS> ADJOURNED

ADJOURNED

16:05:38 <Guus> trackbot, end meeting

Guus Schreiber: trackbot, end meeting

16:05:38 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees

Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees

16:05:38 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been GavinC, pfps, AndyS, Guus, Sandro, gkellogg, Arnaud, davidwood, markus, TallTed

Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been GavinC, pfps, AndyS, Guus, Sandro, gkellogg, Arnaud, davidwood, markus, TallTed

16:05:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:05:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot

16:05:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye

Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye

16:05:47 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-rdf-wg-actions.rdf :

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-rdf-wg-actions.rdf :

16:05:47 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Guus: set up WBS on bound semantics [1]

ACTION: Guus: set up WBS on bound semantics [1]

16:05:47 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-rdf-wg-irc#T15-25-20

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-rdf-wg-irc#T15-25-20

16:05:47 <RRSAgent> ACTION: gavinc: Write resolution text for issue-23 [2]

ACTION: gavinc: Write resolution text for ISSUE-23 [2]

16:05:47 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-rdf-wg-irc#T15-33-23

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-rdf-wg-irc#T15-33-23

16:05:47 <RRSAgent> ACTION: gavin: write resolution text for issue-23 [3]

ACTION: gavin: write resolution text for ISSUE-23 [3]

16:05:47 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-rdf-wg-irc#T15-33-56

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-rdf-wg-irc#T15-33-56

16:05:47 <RRSAgent> ACTION: guus: Ask EricP to respond to the feature at risk commenters re PREFIX [4]

ACTION: guus: Ask EricP to respond to the feature at risk commenters re PREFIX [4]

16:05:47 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-rdf-wg-irc#T15-53-35

RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-rdf-wg-irc#T15-53-35

16:05:54 <Zakim> -gkellogg

Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg



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