None.
14:55:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/26-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/26-rdf-wg-irc ←
14:55:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:55:39 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
14:55:39 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes ←
14:55:40 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:55:40 <trackbot> Date: 26 September 2012
14:56:00 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here? ←
14:56:00 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, Guus
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, Guus ←
14:56:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Guus, gkellogg, AndyS, tbaker, ivan, MacTed, mischat, gavinc, davidwood, manu1, manu, yvesr, ericP, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Guus, gkellogg, AndyS, tbaker, ivan, MacTed, mischat, gavinc, davidwood, manu1, manu, yvesr, ericP, trackbot, sandro ←
14:59:40 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-home
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-home ←
14:59:40 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
14:59:49 <ivan> zakim, drop me
Ivan Herman: zakim, drop me ←
14:59:49 <Zakim> sorry, ivan, I don't know what conference this is
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, ivan, I don't know what conference this is ←
14:59:58 <sandro> wtf zakim
Sandro Hawke: wtf zakim ←
15:00:08 <sandro> Zakim, this is RDF
Sandro Hawke: Zakim, this is RDF ←
15:00:08 <Zakim> ok, sandro; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, sandro; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM ←
15:00:22 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
15:00:22 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
15:00:24 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:00:26 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:00:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P3, Guus, Sandro, EricP, Ivan (muted), ??P6, Ivan (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P3, Guus, Sandro, EricP, Ivan (muted), ??P6, Ivan (muted) ←
15:00:37 <AndyS> zakim, ??P6 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P6 is me ←
15:00:37 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:00:38 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
15:00:42 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P3 is me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P3 is me ←
15:00:42 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it ←
15:00:45 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
15:00:55 <AZ> Zakim, ??P10 is me
Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, ??P10 is me ←
15:00:55 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it ←
15:01:16 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
15:01:24 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here? ←
15:01:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, Sandro, EricP, Ivan, AndyS, Ivan, Arnaud, AZ, ??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, Sandro, EricP, Ivan, AndyS, Ivan, Arnaud, AZ, ??P13 ←
15:01:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see pfps, pchampin, AZ, Arnaud, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, gkellogg, AndyS, tbaker, ivan, MacTed, mischat, gavinc, davidwood, manu1, manu, yvesr, ericP, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see pfps, pchampin, AZ, Arnaud, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, gkellogg, AndyS, tbaker, ivan, MacTed, mischat, gavinc, davidwood, manu1, manu, yvesr, ericP, trackbot, sandro ←
15:01:28 <pchampin> zakim, ??P13 is me
Pierre-Antoine Champin: zakim, ??P13 is me ←
15:01:28 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pchampin; got it ←
15:01:29 <Zakim> +gavinc
Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc ←
15:01:34 <ivan> zakim, drop ivan
Ivan Herman: zakim, drop ivan ←
15:01:35 <Zakim> 'ivan' is ambiguous, ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: 'ivan' is ambiguous, ivan ←
15:02:00 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
15:02:05 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here? ←
15:02:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, Sandro, EricP, Ivan, AndyS, Arnaud, AZ, pchampin, gavinc
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, Sandro, EricP, Ivan, AndyS, Arnaud, AZ, pchampin, gavinc ←
15:02:06 <sandro> zakim, drop ivan
Sandro Hawke: zakim, drop ivan ←
15:02:08 <Zakim> On IRC I see cygri, pfps, pchampin, AZ, Arnaud, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, gkellogg, AndyS, tbaker, ivan, MacTed, mischat, gavinc, davidwood, manu1, manu, yvesr, ericP, trackbot,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see cygri, pfps, pchampin, AZ, Arnaud, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, gkellogg, AndyS, tbaker, ivan, MacTed, mischat, gavinc, davidwood, manu1, manu, yvesr, ericP, trackbot, ←
15:02:08 <Zakim> ... sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro ←
15:02:08 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan is being disconnected ←
15:02:08 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
15:02:12 <Zakim> + +1.408.992.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.408.992.aaaa ←
15:02:14 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here? ←
15:02:14 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
Zakim IRC Bot: +mhausenblas ←
15:02:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, Sandro, EricP, AndyS, Arnaud, AZ, pchampin, gavinc, +1.408.992.aaaa, mhausenblas
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, Sandro, EricP, AndyS, Arnaud, AZ, pchampin, gavinc, +1.408.992.aaaa, mhausenblas ←
15:02:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see cygri, pfps, pchampin, AZ, Arnaud, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, gkellogg, AndyS, tbaker, ivan, MacTed, mischat, gavinc, davidwood, manu1, manu, yvesr, ericP, trackbot,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see cygri, pfps, pchampin, AZ, Arnaud, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, gkellogg, AndyS, tbaker, ivan, MacTed, mischat, gavinc, davidwood, manu1, manu, yvesr, ericP, trackbot, ←
15:02:26 <pfps> zakim, aaaa is me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, aaaa is me ←
15:02:26 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me ←
15:02:28 <Zakim> ... sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro ←
15:02:30 <Zakim> +??P18
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P18 ←
15:02:32 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
15:02:33 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P18
Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am ??P18 ←
15:02:34 <Zakim> +davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: +davidwood ←
15:02:37 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it ←
15:02:38 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it ←
15:02:44 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
15:02:48 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:02:50 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it ←
15:03:53 <gavinc> scribe: gavinc
(Scribe set to Gavin Carothers)
15:04:00 <davidwood> gavinc insists on scribing; WG agrees reluctantly.
David Wood: gavinc insists on scribing; WG agrees reluctantly. ←
15:04:03 <gavinc> Topic: Admin
15:04:38 <gavinc> Guus: No formated version of minutes yet
Guus Schreiber: No formated version of minutes yet ←
15:04:57 <gavinc> ... maybe someone can format them during the telecon
... maybe someone can format them during the telecon ←
15:05:18 <gavinc> ... people happy to accept as they are?
... people happy to accept as they are? ←
15:05:46 <Zakim> +zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2 ←
15:05:50 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-09-19
Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-09-19 ←
15:06:24 <gavinc> sandro: there are some errors
Sandro Hawke: there are some errors ←
15:06:35 <gavinc> Guus: I propose to accept the minutes as they are
Guus Schreiber: I propose to accept the minutes as they are ←
15:06:40 <sandro> names "tlr" and "marcus" are not resolved.
Sandro Hawke: names "tlr" and "marcus" are not resolved. ←
15:06:41 <gavinc> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 19 September:
PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 19 September: ←
15:06:55 <gavinc> Subtopic: Action Items
15:07:56 <gavinc> Subtopic: Telecon time
15:08:07 <gavinc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Sep/0213.html
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Sep/0213.html ←
15:08:28 <gavinc> Guus: 12:00-12:30 EST is very busy
Guus Schreiber: 12:00-12:30 EST is very busy ←
15:08:31 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.212.aabb ←
15:08:38 <gavinc> ... no change unless something can be done w/o problems for active WG members
... no change unless something can be done w/o problems for active WG members ←
15:08:58 <gavinc> gavinc: Yes, I'd have some trouble getting here 30 minutes sooner
Gavin Carothers: Yes, I'd have some trouble getting here 30 minutes sooner ←
15:09:36 <gavinc> Guus: Has someone (sandro) figured out some other solution?
Guus Schreiber: Has someone (sandro) figured out some other solution? ←
15:09:42 <gkellogg> minutes fixed: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-09-19
Gregg Kellogg: minutes fixed: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-09-19 ←
15:09:43 <gavinc> sandro: No, I haven't
Sandro Hawke: No, I haven't ←
15:10:18 <gavinc> Guus: Postpone decision till...?
Guus Schreiber: Postpone decision till...? ←
15:10:39 <gavinc> sandro: will convey that we don't just want to change
Sandro Hawke: will convey that we don't just want to change ←
15:11:03 <cygri> davidwood++
Richard Cyganiak: davidwood++ ←
15:11:10 <gavinc> davidwood: at this point it's hard to change. Perhaps we could change at some point in the future? Perhaps if we go into an extension of our charter.
David Wood: at this point it's hard to change. Perhaps we could change at some point in the future? Perhaps if we go into an extension of our charter. ←
15:11:15 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here? ←
15:11:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, Sandro, EricP, AndyS, Ivan, Arnaud (muted), AZ, pchampin, gavinc, pfps, cygri, gkellogg, davidwood, zwu2, AlexHall
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, Sandro, EricP, AndyS, Ivan, Arnaud (muted), AZ, pchampin, gavinc, pfps, cygri, gkellogg, davidwood, zwu2, AlexHall ←
15:11:17 <Zakim> On IRC I see AlexHall, zwu2, cygri, pfps, pchampin, AZ, Arnaud, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, gkellogg, AndyS, tbaker, ivan, MacTed, mischat, gavinc, davidwood, manu1, manu, yvesr, ericP,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see AlexHall, zwu2, cygri, pfps, pchampin, AZ, Arnaud, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, gkellogg, AndyS, tbaker, ivan, MacTed, mischat, gavinc, davidwood, manu1, manu, yvesr, ericP, ←
15:11:19 <Zakim> ... trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: ... trackbot, sandro ←
15:11:58 <gavinc> subtopic: Next Meeting
15:12:05 <gavinc> Guus: Next week
Guus Schreiber: Next week ←
15:12:12 <gavinc> subtopic: Next F2F
15:12:19 <gavinc> Guus: Will start on agenda
Guus Schreiber: Will start on agenda ←
15:12:29 <gavinc> Guus: Have a number of requests for observers
Guus Schreiber: Have a number of requests for observers ←
15:12:42 <gavinc> Topic: Provenance Constraints Review
15:13:11 <gavinc> Guus: LC period has already ended. Last week.
Guus Schreiber: LC period has already ended. Last week. ←
15:13:30 <gavinc> ericP: Haven't done it yet, didn't know there was such time pressure
Eric Prud'hommeaux: Haven't done it yet, didn't know there was such time pressure ←
15:13:49 <gavinc> cygri: Constraints LC is October 10th
Richard Cyganiak: Constraints LC is October 10th ←
15:14:08 <gavinc> davidwood: There were a number of documents
David Wood: There were a number of documents ←
15:14:29 <gavinc> ivan: surprised that the Constraints document needs RDF WG review
Ivan Herman: surprised that the Constraints document needs RDF WG review ←
15:14:45 <gavinc> cygri: Been working threw the documents, expect to finish in the next few days
Richard Cyganiak: Been working threw the documents, expect to finish in the next few days ←
15:14:55 <gavinc> Guus: Thanks for doing it quick
Guus Schreiber: Thanks for doing it quick ←
15:15:01 <gavinc> ericP: I won't be done by then
Eric Prud'hommeaux: I won't be done by then ←
15:15:30 <gavinc> Topic: Turtle
15:16:00 <cygri> i can scribe
Richard Cyganiak: i can scribe ←
15:16:22 <cygri> ericP: we have pretty clear plans for going forward
Eric Prud'hommeaux: we have pretty clear plans for going forward [ Scribe Assist by Richard Cyganiak ] ←
15:16:34 <cygri> ... we decided not to do the inverse property thing
Richard Cyganiak: ... we decided not to do the inverse property thing ←
15:16:38 <gkellogg> scribenick cygri
Gregg Kellogg: scribenick cygri ←
15:16:43 <cygri> ... everything else editorial
Richard Cyganiak: ... everything else editorial ←
15:17:10 <cygri> gavinc: there was one more feature request for unsetting base/prefix
Gavin Carothers: there was one more feature request for unsetting base/prefix [ Scribe Assist by Richard Cyganiak ] ←
15:17:40 <cygri> ... a somewhat odd feature
Richard Cyganiak: ... a somewhat odd feature ←
15:17:44 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:17:49 <AndyS> ack ivan
Andy Seaborne: ack ivan ←
15:17:52 <cygri> ivan: i have not seen much request for things like that
Ivan Herman: i have not seen much request for things like that [ Scribe Assist by Richard Cyganiak ] ←
15:17:54 <ivan> ack ivan
Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←
15:18:19 <cygri> q+
Richard Cyganiak: q+ ←
15:18:40 <ivan> ack cygri
Ivan Herman: ack cygri ←
15:19:37 <AndyS> concatenating turtle files has other problems - reused bnode labels.
Andy Seaborne: concatenating turtle files has other problems - reused bnode labels. ←
15:20:07 <cygri> cygri: the issue was that concatenating turtle files can change the triples
Richard Cyganiak: the issue was that concatenating turtle files can change the triples [ Scribe Assist by Richard Cyganiak ] ←
15:21:02 <Guus> zakim, who is here?
Guus Schreiber: zakim, who is here? ←
15:21:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, Sandro, EricP, AndyS, Ivan, Arnaud (muted), AZ, pchampin, gavinc, pfps, cygri, gkellogg, davidwood, zwu2, AlexHall
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, Sandro, EricP, AndyS, Ivan, Arnaud (muted), AZ, pchampin, gavinc, pfps, cygri, gkellogg, davidwood, zwu2, AlexHall ←
15:21:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see danbri, AlexHall, zwu2, cygri, pfps, pchampin, AZ, Arnaud, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, gkellogg, AndyS, tbaker, ivan, MacTed, mischat, gavinc, davidwood, manu1, manu,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see danbri, AlexHall, zwu2, cygri, pfps, pchampin, AZ, Arnaud, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, gkellogg, AndyS, tbaker, ivan, MacTed, mischat, gavinc, davidwood, manu1, manu, ←
15:21:04 <Zakim> ... yvesr, ericP, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: ... yvesr, ericP, trackbot, sandro ←
15:21:11 <cygri> ... so there are a number of reasons why concatenating turtle files is a bad idea
Richard Cyganiak: ... so there are a number of reasons why concatenating turtle files is a bad idea ←
15:21:55 <cygri> gavinc: i will get to LC responses next week
Gavin Carothers: i will get to LC responses next week [ Scribe Assist by Richard Cyganiak ] ←
15:22:10 <cygri> guus: would be nice to have proposed draft resolutions
Guus Schreiber: would be nice to have proposed draft resolutions [ Scribe Assist by Richard Cyganiak ] ←
15:22:14 <cygri> topic: JSON-LD
15:23:13 <gavinc> gkellogg: committed to getting all the comments done to have the JSON-LD syntax ready for review by Monday
Gregg Kellogg: committed to getting all the comments done to have the JSON-LD syntax ready for review by Monday ←
15:23:36 <gavinc> Guus: Can you say a few words on planning?
Guus Schreiber: Can you say a few words on planning? ←
15:24:07 <PatH> sorry im late, medicals took more time than planned.
Patrick Hayes: sorry im late, medicals took more time than planned. ←
15:24:22 <gavinc> gkellogg: we have agreement in principle, they are open as we don't have the spec updated. All of the open issues have resolutions but they don't have spec text yet.
Gregg Kellogg: we have agreement in principle, they are open as we don't have the spec updated. All of the open issues have resolutions but they don't have spec text yet. ←
15:24:40 <gavinc> .. one of them was an update on the alignment between RDF Concepts and JSON-LD
.. one of them was an update on the alignment between RDF Concepts and JSON-LD ←
15:25:02 <Zakim> +PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH ←
15:25:26 <gavinc> gkellogg: Most of the work from Drupul feedback will be in the API document, not the syntax document
Gregg Kellogg: Most of the work from Drupul feedback will be in the API document, not the syntax document ←
15:25:46 <gavinc> gkellogg: one of the issues is the compacting and round tripping
Gregg Kellogg: one of the issues is the compacting and round tripping ←
15:26:13 <gavinc> Guus: Next Monday, 1 October for JSON-LD review?
Guus Schreiber: Next Monday, 1 October for JSON-LD review? ←
15:26:31 <gavinc> gkellogg: Yes, will send out notification that the document is ready for review
Gregg Kellogg: Yes, will send out notification that the document is ready for review ←
15:26:51 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:26:52 <gavinc> davidwood: Could get to CR before end of charter?
David Wood: Could get to CR before end of charter? ←
15:27:12 <gavinc> gkellogg: Yes, I think we can for the Syntax document. The API document is less on track.
Gregg Kellogg: Yes, I think we can for the Syntax document. The API document is less on track. ←
15:27:41 <gavinc> ivan: API document will need to check if the RDF WG is going to publish the API document as well
Ivan Herman: API document will need to check if the RDF WG is going to publish the API document as well ←
15:28:04 <gavinc> gkellogg: My recollection is that both Syntax and API are both to be published by the RDF WG
Gregg Kellogg: My recollection is that both Syntax and API are both to be published by the RDF WG ←
15:28:05 <Guus> ack ivan
Guus Schreiber: ack ivan ←
15:28:22 <gavinc> ivan: It is possible to move to PR and jump over CR
Ivan Herman: It is possible to move to PR and jump over CR ←
15:28:36 <gavinc> ... if there is enough test suites and implementations
... if there is enough test suites and implementations ←
15:28:45 <gavinc> ... not saying we should talk about that today
... not saying we should talk about that today ←
15:28:49 <davidwood> +1 to Ivan. Plenty of implementations exist.
David Wood: +1 to Ivan. Plenty of implementations exist. ←
15:28:53 <gavinc> ... but we should consider it.
... but we should consider it. ←
15:29:03 <gavinc> +q
+q ←
15:29:07 <davidwood> The W3C Process also calls CR a "Call for Implementations"
David Wood: The W3C Process also calls CR a "Call for Implementations" ←
15:29:11 <Arnaud> I believe technically it's not jumping over CR, it's just going through instantaneously by satisfying the requirement for implementations
Arnaud Le Hors: I believe technically it's not jumping over CR, it's just going through instantaneously by satisfying the requirement for implementations ←
15:29:25 <davidwood> Arnaud, right
David Wood: Arnaud, right ←
15:29:26 <gavinc> sandro: should include language in LC if skipping CR
Sandro Hawke: should include language in LC if skipping CR ←
15:29:35 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
15:29:40 <gavinc> gkellogg: yes there are implementations, but we have test suites
Gregg Kellogg: yes there are implementations, but we have test suites ←
15:29:41 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:29:41 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:29:43 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:29:43 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:29:43 <gavinc> -q
-q ←
15:30:14 <gavinc> Topic: Graphs
15:31:00 <gavinc> Guus: Constrained by charter expires 1 Feb 2013
Guus Schreiber: Constrained by charter expires 1 Feb 2013 ←
15:31:12 <gavinc> ... only possible if documents are in Last Call
... only possible if documents are in Last Call ←
15:31:45 <gavinc> ... what can we do in the next 3 months?
... what can we do in the next 3 months? ←
15:33:23 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call? ←
15:33:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, Sandro, EricP, AndyS, Ivan, Arnaud (muted), AZ, pchampin, gavinc, pfps, cygri, gkellogg, davidwood, zwu2, AlexHall, PatH, MacTed (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, Sandro, EricP, AndyS, Ivan, Arnaud (muted), AZ, pchampin, gavinc, pfps, cygri, gkellogg, davidwood, zwu2, AlexHall, PatH, MacTed (muted) ←
15:33:26 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/Minimal-dataset-semantics
http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/TF-Graphs/Minimal-dataset-semantics ←
15:34:06 <gavinc> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Sep/0220.html is this the version that Pat and Peter both agree with?
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Sep/0220.html is this the version that Pat and Peter both agree with? ←
15:35:08 <gavinc> pfps: there are two kinds of differences, if the default graph is inconsistent then the whole set is inconsistent. Mine doesn't have that.
Peter Patel-Schneider: there are two kinds of differences, if the default graph is inconsistent then the whole set is inconsistent. Mine doesn't have that. ←
15:36:06 <gavinc> pfps: In mine you do entailment on the graphs in side the dataset, in the other datasets have interpretations and entailment takes place between them
Peter Patel-Schneider: In mine you do entailment on the graphs in side the dataset, in the other datasets have interpretations and entailment takes place between them ←
15:36:06 <AZ> should we even call that last notion of entailment "entailment"?
Antoine Zimmermann: should we even call that last notion of entailment "entailment"? ←
15:37:05 <AndyS> Please everyone respond to Sandro's email on "Dataset Syntax - checking for consensus" so we can get an overview of what people's current positions are. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Sep/0249.html -- low cost : respond with +1/0/-1 a few times
Andy Seaborne: Please everyone respond to Sandro's email on "Dataset Syntax - checking for consensus" so we can get an overview of what people's current positions are. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Sep/0249.html -- low cost : respond with +1/0/-1 a few times ←
15:39:03 <cygri> q+
Richard Cyganiak: q+ ←
15:39:06 <gavinc> PatH: It sounds like sandro is saying that Dataset semantics doesn't make sense. And PatH and pfps agree with you.
Patrick Hayes: It sounds like sandro is saying that Dataset semantics doesn't make sense. And PatH and pfps agree with you. ←
15:39:13 <ivan> +1 to what Pat says, it is fairly clear
Ivan Herman: +1 to what Pat says, it is fairly clear ←
15:39:22 <AZ> it's not RDF 2004 semantics
Antoine Zimmermann: it's not RDF 2004 semantics ←
15:39:37 <gavinc> PatH: It's not no semantics, it's just RDF 2004 semantics
Patrick Hayes: It's not no semantics, it's just RDF 2004 semantics ←
15:39:53 <gavinc> Zakim, who is talking?
Zakim, who is talking? ←
15:40:05 <Zakim> gavinc, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus (31%), AZ (54%), gavinc (13%)
Zakim IRC Bot: gavinc, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Guus (31%), AZ (54%), gavinc (13%) ←
15:40:19 <PatH> @gavin: it does make sense, but its not clear it has a use.
Patrick Hayes: @gavin: it does make sense, but its not clear it has a use. ←
15:40:30 <pfps> I don't think that the scribe is correct. I would say that sandro was suggesting that entailment in the dataset semantics doesn't make sense or have much use, and Pat and I were more or less agreeing.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I don't think that the scribe is correct. I would say that sandro was suggesting that entailment in the dataset semantics doesn't make sense or have much use, and Pat and I were more or less agreeing. ←
15:40:43 <sandro> I think you'd want the inference labeled with a DIFFERENT BUT RELATED iri.
Sandro Hawke: I think you'd want the inference labeled with a DIFFERENT BUT RELATED iri. ←
15:40:56 <pfps> Now I'm lost.
Peter Patel-Schneider: Now I'm lost. ←
15:41:13 <sandro> +1 pfps on scribing.
Sandro Hawke: +1 pfps on scribing. ←
15:41:48 <PatH> Q
Patrick Hayes: Q ←
15:41:50 <PatH> q
Patrick Hayes: q ←
15:41:55 <ericP> q?
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q? ←
15:41:55 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
15:41:57 <PatH> q+
Patrick Hayes: q+ ←
15:42:08 <Guus> ack cygri
Guus Schreiber: ack cygri ←
15:42:28 <gavinc> cygri: Why do this over saying nothing?
Richard Cyganiak: Why do this over saying nothing? ←
15:42:35 <AZ> +1 cygri
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 cygri ←
15:42:52 <Guus> ack PatH
Guus Schreiber: ack PatH ←
15:43:02 <AZ> oh no not +1, I misunderstood I think
Antoine Zimmermann: oh no not +1, I misunderstood I think ←
15:43:25 <PatH> Antoine: need to keep the graph label associated with entailments of named graph as it might indicate a context of truth such as time.
Antoine Zimmermann: need to keep the graph label associated with entailments of named graph as it might indicate a context of truth such as time. [ Scribe Assist by Patrick Hayes ] ←
15:43:48 <gavinc> pfps: I would prefer no symantics, but there was push back. So this is a fall back position that doesn't preclude doing things that people want.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I would prefer no symantics, but there was push back. So this is a fall back position that doesn't preclude doing things that people want. ←
15:44:00 <AZ> q+
Antoine Zimmermann: q+ ←
15:44:10 <gavinc> ... there are so many things that people want to do with named graphs that it's hard to come up with a symantics that covers all of them
... there are so many things that people want to do with named graphs that it's hard to come up with a symantics that covers all of them ←
15:44:46 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:44:50 <gavinc> pfps: I think there need to be caviots put around it. If you want to use entailments then this is the way to getting at it.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I think there need to be caveats put around it. If you want to use entailments then this is the way to getting at it. ←
15:44:57 <PatH> caveat
Patrick Hayes: caveat ←
15:45:04 <PatH> +q
Patrick Hayes: +q ←
15:45:05 <Guus> ack AZ
Guus Schreiber: ack AZ ←
15:45:10 <gavinc> s/caviots/caveats
15:45:41 <pchampin> q+
15:45:48 <gavinc> AZ: if you don't need to do entailments, then you can just work with data structure. The symantics doesn't do anything to the dataset. I don't see where the damage is.
Antoine Zimmermann: if you don't need to do entailments, then you can just work with data structure. The symantics doesn't do anything to the dataset. I don't see where the damage is. ←
15:46:27 <gavinc> ... there is no symantics that can cover all the use cases, and I agree. The minimal symantics doesn't cover all the use cases, it's supposed to be the min comment points between the use cases
... there is no symantics that can cover all the use cases, and I agree. The minimal symantics doesn't cover all the use cases, it's supposed to be the min comment points between the use cases ←
15:46:29 <pfps> that's NOT at all what I said. I said, and said VERY explicitly, that I don't see a semantics that covers even a good fraction of the use cases.
Peter Patel-Schneider: that's NOT at all what I said. I said, and said VERY explicitly, that I don't see a semantics that covers even a good fraction of the use cases. ←
15:48:15 <gkellogg> q?
Gregg Kellogg: q? ←
15:48:21 <gavinc> ack PatH
ack PatH ←
15:48:37 <gavinc> PatH: Trying to pick up on a point that AZ made...
Patrick Hayes: Trying to pick up on a point that AZ made... ←
15:50:06 <AZ> Yes it is
Antoine Zimmermann: Yes it is ←
15:50:18 <sandro> +1 PatH channeling AZ that it's important to keep "name" when doing entailment
Sandro Hawke: +1 PatH channeling AZ that it's important to keep "name" when doing entailment ←
15:50:25 <Guus> q+ to suggest we have dad enough discussions on this and I'd give the token to the RDF Semantics to make proposal for resolving this
Guus Schreiber: q+ to suggest we have dad enough discussions on this and I'd give the token to the RDF Semantics editors to make proposal for resolving this ←
15:50:55 <Guus> s/RDF Semantics/RDF Semantics editors
15:50:58 <gavinc> AZ: Yes, I want entailment attached to the graph name.
Antoine Zimmermann: Yes, I want entailment attached to the graph name. ←
15:51:11 <gavinc> ... it's not really a semantics...
... it's not really a semantics... ←
15:51:25 <gavinc> ... it defines entailments in line with what I would require ...
... it defines entailments in line with what I would require ... ←
15:51:43 <cygri> q+
Richard Cyganiak: q+ ←
15:52:06 <cygri> q+ to suggest strawpoll "say nothing about the semantics of datasets"
Richard Cyganiak: q+ to suggest strawpoll "say nothing about the semantics of datasets" ←
15:52:07 <Guus> ack ivan
Guus Schreiber: ack ivan ←
15:52:48 <pfps> but then where do other main use cases for named graphs sit? provenance, quoting, etc., all depend on the exact graph, not on equivalent graphs
Peter Patel-Schneider: but then where do other main use cases for named graphs sit? provenance, quoting, etc., all depend on the exact graph, not on equivalent graphs ←
15:53:24 <PatH> Suggestion: extend notion of graph entailment to "named graphs", ie <N, G> pairs, which is <N G> entials <N' G'> just when N=N' and G entails G'. Ie entailment but keep the name fixed.
Patrick Hayes: Suggestion: extend notion of graph entailment to "named graphs", ie <N, G> pairs, which is <N G> entials <N' G'> just when N=N' and G entails G'. Ie entailment but keep the name fixed. ←
15:53:32 <pchampin> q-
15:54:04 <AZ> For the sake of advancing on these issues, I'd accept such a compromise, however disappointing it is to me
Antoine Zimmermann: For the sake of advancing on these issues, I'd accept such a compromise, however disappointing it is to me ←
15:54:34 <Guus> ack Guus
Guus Schreiber: ack Guus ←
15:54:34 <Zakim> Guus, you wanted to suggest we have dad enough discussions on this and I'd give the token to the RDF Semantics to make proposal for resolving this
Zakim IRC Bot: Guus, you wanted to suggest we have dad enough discussions on this and I'd give the token to the RDF Semantics to make proposal for resolving this ←
15:54:42 <PatH> Then we get the preservation of contexts without needing to define a new interpretation for some thing as large as a dataset, and do not risk prematurely fixing relationships between default and named grpahs in ways that might harm other users.
Patrick Hayes: Then we get the preservation of contexts without needing to define a new interpretation for some thing as large as a dataset, and do not risk prematurely fixing relationships between default and named grpahs in ways that might harm other users. ←
15:55:07 <Guus> ack cygri
Guus Schreiber: ack cygri ←
15:55:07 <Zakim> cygri, you wanted to suggest strawpoll "say nothing about the semantics of datasets"
Zakim IRC Bot: cygri, you wanted to suggest strawpoll "say nothing about the semantics of datasets" ←
15:55:35 <PatH> And users can say whether they are using graph entailment (ignore names) or named graph entailment (preserve names)
Patrick Hayes: And users can say whether they are using graph entailment (ignore names) or named graph entailment (preserve names) ←
15:56:06 <PatH> And (fonally) iondeed we do not give a sematnics for *datasets*.
Patrick Hayes: And (fonally) iondeed we do not give a sematnics for *datasets*. ←
15:56:22 <PatH> fonally/finally
Patrick Hayes: fonas ally/finas ally ←
15:56:28 <MacTed> s/a/as a/
15:56:44 <ivan> I can live with a note
Ivan Herman: I can live with a note ←
15:56:51 <Guus> richard: are you suggesting a separate note?
Richard Cyganiak: are you suggesting a separate note? [ Scribe Assist by Guus Schreiber ] ←
15:57:04 <PatH> q+
Patrick Hayes: q+ ←
15:57:12 <Zakim> -PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH ←
15:57:19 <sandro> STRAWPOLL: Have no Dataset Semantics (in the lifetime of this WG)
STRAWPOLL: Have no Dataset Semantics (in the lifetime of this WG) ←
15:57:41 <sandro> +1 (as long as there is a metadata mechanism)
Sandro Hawke: +1 (as long as there is a metadata mechanism) ←
15:57:53 <cygri> +0.5
Richard Cyganiak: +0.5 ←
15:57:56 <gavinc> 0
0 ←
15:57:58 <pfps> +1
15:57:58 <AndyS> abstain
Andy Seaborne: abstain ←
15:57:59 <zwu2> +1
15:58:00 <gkellogg> 0
Gregg Kellogg: 0 ←
15:58:01 <Arnaud> 0
Arnaud Le Hors: 0 ←
15:58:02 <yvesr> +1 (same as sandro, mitigated by the fact i still find all that horribly confusing)
Yves Raimond: +1 (same as sandro, mitigated by the fact i still find all that horribly confusing) ←
15:58:05 <Zakim> +PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH ←
15:58:09 <davidwood> +0.5
David Wood: +0.5 ←
15:58:14 <AZ> -0
Antoine Zimmermann: -0 ←
15:58:21 <ericP> +0.5
Eric Prud'hommeaux: +0.5 ←
15:58:23 <AlexHall> +0.5
15:58:27 <tbaker> 0 (but think I agree with Sandro's point re: metadata mechanism)
Thomas Baker: 0 (but think I agree with Sandro's point re: metadata mechanism) ←
15:58:27 <MacTed> +0
Ted Thibodeau: +0 ←
15:59:00 <PatH> +1 but do have named graph semantics
Patrick Hayes: +1 but do have named graph semantics ←
15:59:06 <sandro> (keeping it out of the Rec)
Sandro Hawke: (keeping it out of the Rec) ←
15:59:13 <ivan> +1 (but I do not understand sandro's point)
Ivan Herman: +1 (but I do not understand sandro's point) ←
15:59:24 <AndyS> note(s)/fine if it does not take WG-TC time.
Andy Seaborne: note(s)/fine if it does not take WG-TC time. ←
15:59:39 <PatH> I was on Q before this poll
Patrick Hayes: I was on Q before this poll ←
15:59:51 <Guus> ack PatH
Guus Schreiber: ack PatH ←
16:00:45 <sandro> +1 Pat investigate/propose more on this
Sandro Hawke: +1 Pat investigate/propose more on this ←
16:02:37 <sandro> topic: Dataset Syntax
16:02:39 <sandro> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Sep/0249.html Dataset Syntax - checking for consensus
Sandro Hawke: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Sep/0249.html Dataset Syntax - checking for consensus ←
16:02:43 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:02:55 <gavinc> Guus: Lets review status
Guus Schreiber: Lets review status ←
16:04:01 <gavinc> sandro: it seems to me that there is agreement that we do something in the TriG sparql space
Sandro Hawke: it seems to me that there is agreement that we do something in the TriG sparql space ←
16:04:46 <gavinc> ivan: are you refering to metadata about the dataset or about the named graphs?
Ivan Herman: are you refering to metadata about the dataset or about the named graphs? ←
16:04:58 <gavinc> sandro: in my mind metadata is stuff that's asserted
Sandro Hawke: in my mind metadata is stuff that's asserted ←
16:05:30 <gavinc> ivan: I have a dataset defined in TriG file. I want to say something about the dataset as a whole
Ivan Herman: I have a dataset defined in TriG file. I want to say something about the dataset as a whole ←
16:05:40 <ericP> q+
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q+ ←
16:06:02 <gavinc> ivan: is it metadata about the whole thing or the named graphs?
Ivan Herman: is it metadata about the whole thing or the named graphs? ←
16:06:28 <ivan> ack ivan
Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←
16:06:51 <ericP> q-
Eric Prud'hommeaux: q- ←
16:07:31 <gavinc> NOT REALLY PROPOSED: We will produce a W3C Recommendation for a dataset syntax, similar to TriG and to SPARQL's named graph syntax.
NOT REALLY PROPOSED: We will produce a W3C Recommendation for a dataset syntax, similar to TriG and to SPARQL's named graph syntax. ←
16:07:46 <gavinc> sandro: yep, everyone seems to agree with this
Sandro Hawke: yep, everyone seems to agree with this ←
16:08:11 <gavinc> NOT REALLY PROPOSED: We'll request a media-type for this syntax which is different from the media-type for Turtle. (That is, we will not consider this language to supplant Turtle and take over the name, becoming the new "Turtle", as was once proposed.)
NOT REALLY PROPOSED: We'll request a media-type for this syntax which is different from the media-type for Turtle. (That is, we will not consider this language to supplant Turtle and take over the name, becoming the new "Turtle", as was once proposed.) ←
16:08:22 <gavinc> Guus: Not sure that we have consus on that one.
Guus Schreiber: Not sure that we have consus on that one. ←
16:08:52 <gavinc> sandro: agree, yeah I'm not sure we have consensus on this
Sandro Hawke: agree, yeah I'm not sure we have consensus on this ←
16:09:05 <gavinc> NOT REALLY PROPOSED: Our dataset syntax will allow for the expression of empty named graphs, whatever their semantics might be (to be decided). The syntax is an empty curly-braces expression, as in "<g> { }".
NOT REALLY PROPOSED: Our dataset syntax will allow for the expression of empty named graphs, whatever their semantics might be (to be decided). The syntax is an empty curly-braces expression, as in "<g> { }". ←
16:09:20 <gavinc> sandro: some conversation about what this means
Sandro Hawke: some conversation about what this means ←
16:11:25 <sandro> +1 cygri -- if the language turns out rather differnt from TriG, let's give it a differnt name
Sandro Hawke: +1 cygri -- if the language turns out rather differnt from TriG, let's give it a differnt name ←
16:11:28 <sandro> Tr1G
Sandro Hawke: Tr1G ←
16:11:29 <cygri> tr1g
Richard Cyganiak: tr1g ←
16:11:43 <Arnaud> LDP has decided to use Turtle as its default/minimum serialization format, I wonder what it means to introduce yet another format
Arnaud Le Hors: LDP has decided to use Turtle as its default/minimum serialization format, I wonder what it means to introduce yet another format ←
16:11:45 <gkellogg> Tri4
Gregg Kellogg: Tri4 ←
16:12:54 <cygri> sandro++
Richard Cyganiak: sandro++ ←
16:14:13 <sandro> <g> { <a> <b> <c> }
Sandro Hawke: <g> { <a> <b> <c> } ←
16:14:18 <sandro> GRAPH <g> { <a> <b> <c> }
Sandro Hawke: GRAPH <g> { <a> <b> <c> } ←
16:16:34 <gavinc> +q to make sure the whole default graph thing gets on the agenda
+q to make sure the whole default graph thing gets on the agenda ←
16:17:19 <Zakim> -zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2 ←
16:18:28 <Zakim> -yvesr
Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr ←
16:18:30 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
16:18:31 <Zakim> -pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←
16:18:32 <Zakim> -davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood ←
16:18:32 <Zakim> -PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH ←
16:18:33 <Zakim> -cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri ←
16:18:33 <Zakim> -AlexHall
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexHall ←
16:18:35 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
16:18:35 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
16:18:36 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
16:18:38 <Zakim> -gavinc
Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc ←
16:18:40 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
16:18:42 <Zakim> -gkellogg
Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg ←
16:18:45 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
16:18:55 <Guus> trackbot, end meeting
Guus Schreiber: trackbot, end meeting ←
16:18:55 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
16:18:55 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Guus, Sandro, EricP, Ivan, AndyS, Arnaud, yvesr, AZ, pchampin, gavinc, +1.408.992.aaaa, davidwood, pfps, cygri, gkellogg, zwu2,
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Guus, Sandro, EricP, Ivan, AndyS, Arnaud, yvesr, AZ, pchampin, gavinc, +1.408.992.aaaa, davidwood, pfps, cygri, gkellogg, zwu2, ←
16:18:59 <Zakim> ... +1.443.212.aabb, AlexHall, PatH, MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.443.212.aabb, AlexHall, PatH, MacTed ←
16:18:59 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
16:19:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
16:19:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/26-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/26-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot ←
16:19:04 <Zakim> -pchampin
Zakim IRC Bot: -pchampin ←
16:19:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
16:19:04 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
Formatted by CommonScribe