None.
14:56:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/19-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/19-rdf-wg-irc ←
14:56:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:56:07 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
14:56:07 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes ←
14:56:08 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:56:08 <trackbot> Date: 19 September 2012
14:56:24 <yvesr> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Yves Raimond: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:56:24 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, yvesr
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has not yet started, yvesr ←
14:56:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, swh, Guus, AndyS, danbri, mischat1, MacTed, ivan, gkellogg, gavinc, manu, manu1, davidwood, yvesr, ericP, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, swh, Guus, AndyS, danbri, mischat1, MacTed, ivan, gkellogg, gavinc, manu, manu1, davidwood, yvesr, ericP, trackbot, sandro ←
14:59:46 <cygri> zakim, code?
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, code? ←
14:59:46 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), cygri ←
15:00:27 <AndyS> zakim, start telecon
Andy Seaborne: zakim, start telecon ←
15:00:27 <Zakim> I don't understand 'start telecon', AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'start telecon', AndyS ←
15:00:40 <davidwood> Zakim, I'm here...
David Wood: Zakim, I'm here... ←
15:00:40 <Zakim> I don't understand 'I'm here', davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'I'm here', davidwood ←
15:00:44 <AndyS> zakim, this is 73394
Andy Seaborne: zakim, this is 73394 ←
15:00:44 <Zakim> ok, AndyS; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, AndyS; that matches SW_RDFWG()11:00AM ←
15:00:50 <yvesr> Zakim, who is on the phone?
Yves Raimond: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:00:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4, Guus, gavinc, ??P3, [IPcaller], davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P4, Guus, gavinc, ??P3, [IPcaller], davidwood ←
15:01:03 <yvesr> Zakim, ??P4 is me
Yves Raimond: Zakim, ??P4 is me ←
15:01:04 <AndyS> zakim, IPcaller is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, IPcaller is me ←
15:01:08 <cygri> zakim, ??P3 is me
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, ??P3 is me ←
15:01:10 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
15:01:10 <MacTed> trackbot, start call
Ted Thibodeau: trackbot, start call ←
15:01:10 <trackbot> Sorry, MacTed, I don't understand 'trackbot, start call'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, MacTed, I don't understand 'trackbot, start call'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help ←
15:01:18 <Zakim> +yvesr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +yvesr; got it ←
15:01:20 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
15:01:28 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it ←
15:01:32 <Zakim> +??P18
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P18 ←
15:01:36 <gkellogg> zakim, ??P18 is me
Gregg Kellogg: zakim, ??P18 is me ←
15:01:52 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
15:01:57 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it ←
15:02:02 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:02:04 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:02:15 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here? ←
15:02:17 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:02:21 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:02:33 <gavinc> ericP claimed he will be 15 minutes late
Gavin Carothers: ericP claimed he will be 15 minutes late ←
15:02:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, gavinc, cygri, AndyS, davidwood, Arnaud, gkellogg, MacTed (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, gavinc, cygri, AndyS, davidwood, Arnaud, gkellogg, MacTed (muted) ←
15:02:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see mlnt, Arnaud, cygri, Zakim, RRSAgent, swh, Guus, AndyS, danbri, mischat1, MacTed, ivan, gkellogg, gavinc, manu, manu1, davidwood, yvesr, ericP, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see mlnt, Arnaud, cygri, Zakim, RRSAgent, swh, Guus, AndyS, danbri, mischat1, MacTed, ivan, gkellogg, gavinc, manu, manu1, davidwood, yvesr, ericP, trackbot, sandro ←
15:03:18 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
15:03:26 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
15:03:26 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
15:03:28 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:03:42 <Zakim> +AlexHall
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexHall ←
15:03:50 <ivan> zakim, mute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me ←
15:03:50 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
15:04:01 <AndyS> can scribe for a bit
Andy Seaborne: can scribe for a bit ←
15:04:16 <Zakim> +??P24
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24 ←
15:04:23 <mlnt> zakim, ??P24 is me
Markus Lanthaler: zakim, ??P24 is me ←
15:04:23 <Zakim> +mlnt; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +mlnt; got it ←
15:05:12 <AndyS> topic: admin
15:05:20 <AndyS> Minutes of 9/12
Andy Seaborne: Minutes of 9/12 ←
15:05:29 <davidwood> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 12 September:
David Wood: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 12 September: ←
15:05:29 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-09-12
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-09-12 ←
15:05:43 <AndyS> topic; action items
Andy Seaborne: topic; action items ←
15:05:49 <AndyS> david: none pending
David Wood: none pending [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
15:06:11 <cygri> i claim victory on ACTION-183
Richard Cyganiak: i claim victory on ACTION-183 ←
15:06:14 <AndyS> RESOLVED accept the minutes of the 12 September: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-09-12
Andy Seaborne: RESOLVED accept the minutes of the 12 September: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-09-12 ←
15:06:33 <AndyS> topic: action items
15:07:26 <sandro> action-183?
15:07:26 <trackbot> ACTION-183 -- Richard Cyganiak to send email to list about bNodes labels in TriG docs -- due 2012-09-12 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-183 -- Richard Cyganiak to send email to list about bNodes labels in TriG docs -- due 2012-09-12 -- OPEN ←
15:07:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/183
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/183 ←
15:07:26 <davidwood> CLOSE ACTION-183
David Wood: CLOSE ACTION-183 ←
15:07:26 <trackbot> ACTION-183 Send email to list about bNodes labels in TriG docs closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-183 Send email to list about bNodes labels in TriG docs closed ←
15:07:45 <AndyS> topic: next meeting
15:07:50 <AndyS> next wednesday
Andy Seaborne: next wednesday ←
15:07:57 <AndyS> topic: F2F @ TPAC
15:08:21 <AndyS> davidwood: some people not said what state they are in
David Wood: some people not said what state they are in [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
15:08:42 <AndyS> ... NB if attending, must register for TPAC as well.
Andy Seaborne: ... NB if attending, must register for TPAC as well. ←
15:09:14 <sandro> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2012/registrants#RDF
Sandro Hawke: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2012/registrants#RDF ←
15:10:23 <AndyS> davidwood: will follow up and sort out wiki page for attending F2F
David Wood: will follow up and sort out wiki page for attending F2F [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
15:10:35 <AndyS> sandro: some observer requests
Sandro Hawke: some observer requests [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
15:10:38 <cygri> Fabien, EricP and Alexandre are registered but not on the wiki page
Richard Cyganiak: Fabien, EricP and Alexandre are registered but not on the wiki page ←
15:11:00 <Zakim> + +081165aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +081165aaaa ←
15:11:23 <AZ> Zakim, +081165aaaa is me
Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, +081165aaaa is me ←
15:11:23 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it ←
15:11:55 <MacTed> the wiki page for WG to update with TPAC/F2F attendance plans -- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/FTF3
Ted Thibodeau: the wiki page for WG to update with TPAC/F2F attendance plans -- http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/FTF3 ←
15:12:25 <AndyS> davidwood: only place is a limitation
David Wood: only place is a limitation [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
15:12:40 <AndyS> sandro: probably room around the outside
Sandro Hawke: probably room around the outside [ Scribe Assist by Andy Seaborne ] ←
15:13:53 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[GVoice] ←
15:13:55 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
15:14:06 <gavinc> Zakim, mute ericP
Gavin Carothers: Zakim, mute ericP ←
15:14:06 <Zakim> EricP should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: EricP should now be muted ←
15:14:07 <pfps> zakim, GVoice is temporarily me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, GVoice is temporarily me ←
15:14:07 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it ←
15:14:10 <AndyS> ericP arrives in a buzz
Andy Seaborne: ericP arrives in a buzz ←
15:14:17 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
15:14:19 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
15:14:19 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
15:14:20 <MacTed> Zakim, mute [GVoice]
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute [GVoice] ←
15:14:20 <Zakim> sorry, MacTed, I do not know which phone connection belongs to [GVoice]
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, MacTed, I do not know which phone connection belongs to [GVoice] ←
15:14:22 <Zakim> +EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: +EricP ←
15:14:41 <AndyS> scribenick: AndyS
(Scribe set to Andy Seaborne)
15:14:45 <AndyS> scribenick: EricP
(Scribe set to Eric Prud'hommeaux)
15:15:02 <cygri> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.09.19
Richard Cyganiak: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.09.19 ←
15:15:11 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: Meeting agenda, 2012-09-12: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.09.19
Sandro Hawke: sandro has changed the topic to: Meeting agenda, 2012-09-12: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.09.19 ←
15:15:16 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: Meeting agenda, 2012-09-19: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.09.19
Sandro Hawke: sandro has changed the topic to: Meeting agenda, 2012-09-19: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2012.09.19 ←
15:15:18 <Zakim> -cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri ←
15:15:34 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
15:15:37 <cygri> zakim, ??P3 is me
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, ??P3 is me ←
15:15:37 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it ←
15:16:02 <davidwood> Topic: Provenance Constraints Review
15:16:19 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/09/12/last-call-constraints-of-the-provenance-data-model/
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/09/12/last-call-constraints-of-the-provenance-data-model/ ←
15:16:28 <ericP> davidwood: prov WG published a LC of their data model
David Wood: prov WG published a LC of their data model ←
15:16:31 <davidwood> Questions for the RDF WG:
David Wood: Questions for the RDF WG: ←
15:16:31 <davidwood> - Does the terminology, Bundle and Document work with the terminology in the RDF WG?
David Wood: - Does the terminology, Bundle and Document work with the terminology in the RDF WG? ←
15:16:31 <davidwood> - With respect to Bundle and Document do the defined constraints work with what is potentially being specified in RDF?
David Wood: - With respect to Bundle and Document do the defined constraints work with what is potentially being specified in RDF? ←
15:16:48 <davidwood> Zakim, who is on the phone?
David Wood: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:16:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, gavinc, AndyS, davidwood, Arnaud, gkellogg, MacTed (muted), Sandro, Ivan (muted), AlexHall, mlnt, AZ, pfps (muted), EricP, cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, gavinc, AndyS, davidwood, Arnaud, gkellogg, MacTed (muted), Sandro, Ivan (muted), AlexHall, mlnt, AZ, pfps (muted), EricP, cygri ←
15:16:50 <ericP> ... they've asked for formal reivew, particularly of the above two questions
... they've asked for formal reivew, particularly of the above two questions ←
15:16:51 <cygri> i'll volunteer
Richard Cyganiak: i'll volunteer ←
15:18:43 <ericP> ACTION: cygri to review http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/09/12/last-call-constraints-of-the-provenance-data-model/ by 2 Oct
ACTION: cygri to review http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/09/12/last-call-constraints-of-the-provenance-data-model/ by 2 Oct ←
15:18:43 <trackbot> Created ACTION-184 - Review http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/09/12/last-call-constraints-of-the-provenance-data-model/ by 2 Oct [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2012-09-26].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-184 - Review http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/09/12/last-call-constraints-of-the-provenance-data-model/ by 2 Oct [on Richard Cyganiak - due 2012-09-26]. ←
15:18:48 <ericP> ACTION: ericP to review http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/09/12/last-call-constraints-of-the-provenance-data-model/ by 2 Oct
ACTION: ericP to review http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/09/12/last-call-constraints-of-the-provenance-data-model/ by 2 Oct ←
15:18:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-185 - Review http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/09/12/last-call-constraints-of-the-provenance-data-model/ by 2 Oct [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2012-09-26].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-185 - Review http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/09/12/last-call-constraints-of-the-provenance-data-model/ by 2 Oct [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2012-09-26]. ←
15:19:15 <davidwood> Topic: Turtle
15:19:24 <cygri> ACTION-184?
Richard Cyganiak: ACTION-184? ←
15:19:24 <trackbot> ACTION-184 -- Richard Cyganiak to review http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/09/12/last-call-constraints-of-the-provenance-data-model/ by 2 Oct -- due 2012-09-26 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-184 -- Richard Cyganiak to review http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2012/09/12/last-call-constraints-of-the-provenance-data-model/ by 2 Oct -- due 2012-09-26 -- OPEN ←
15:19:24 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/184
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/184 ←
15:19:28 <Zakim> +Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: +Souri ←
15:19:38 <ericP> davidwood: LC for Turtle ended on the 15th
David Wood: LC for Turtle ended on the 15th ←
15:19:54 <ericP> ... where are the comments being tracked?
... where are the comments being tracked? ←
15:20:15 <ericP> davidwood: we need to make sure we respond to every comment with a satisfactory answer
David Wood: we need to make sure we respond to every comment with a satisfactory answer ←
15:20:24 <ericP> ... we discussed using tracker or a wiki page
... we discussed using tracker or a wiki page ←
15:20:54 <ericP> ... either will give us a way to point to the comments
... either will give us a way to point to the comments ←
15:21:03 <pfps> We should try to respond to all LC comments, not just those in the window.
Peter Patel-Schneider: We should try to respond to all LC comments, not just those in the window. ←
15:21:20 <cygri> see http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Last_Call for another example
Richard Cyganiak: see http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/rdb2rdf/wiki/Last_Call for another example ←
15:22:22 <ericP> ACTION: gavinc to add timbl's comment to tracker
ACTION: gavinc to add timbl's comment to tracker ←
15:22:22 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - gavinc
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - gavinc ←
15:22:31 <ericP> ACTION: gavin to add timbl's comment to tracker
ACTION: gavin to add timbl's comment to tracker ←
15:22:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-186 - Add timbl's comment to tracker [on Gavin Carothers - due 2012-09-26].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-186 - Add timbl's comment to tracker [on Gavin Carothers - due 2012-09-26]. ←
15:22:44 <ericP> close ACTION-186
close ACTION-186 ←
15:22:44 <trackbot> ACTION-186 Add timbl's comment to tracker closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-186 Add timbl's comment to tracker closed ←
15:23:11 <AndyS> IMO still need to respond to out-of-LC comments.
Andy Seaborne: IMO still need to respond to out-of-LC comments. ←
15:23:19 <ericP> gavinc: it's in tracker on the product "RDF Turtle"
Gavin Carothers: it's in tracker on the product "RDF Turtle" ←
15:23:37 <ericP> ... and yes, we need to respond to the out-of-LC comments:
... and yes, we need to respond to the out-of-LC comments: ←
15:23:53 <ericP> ... .. earlier this week: a way to remove prefix and base declarations
... .. earlier this week: a way to remove prefix and base declarations ←
15:24:04 <ericP> ... .. a couple before LC, which i believe i've responded to
... .. a couple before LC, which i believe i've responded to ←
15:24:21 <ivan> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-comments/2012Sep/0076.html the out-of-lc comment
Ivan Herman: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-comments/2012Sep/0076.html the out-of-lc comment ←
15:24:25 <davidwood> Topic: JSON-LD
15:24:26 <ericP> ... i'll add those to tracker
... i'll add those to tracker ←
15:24:54 <ericP> davidwood: LSON-LD is making good progress, but we need reviews from WG members who are not working on JSON-LD
David Wood: JSON-LD is making good progress, but we need reviews from WG members who are not working on JSON-LD ←
15:25:40 <ericP> mlnt: we'd like reviews ASAP, of course, but it's not that urgent
Markus Lanthaler: we'd like reviews ASAP, of course, but it's not that urgent ←
15:25:50 <ericP> ... we're working on the last few issues
... we're working on the last few issues ←
15:26:12 <ericP> ... these are about API so Syntax is stable enough for review
... these are about API so Syntax is stable enough for review ←
15:26:22 <cygri> yes sure
Richard Cyganiak: yes sure ←
15:26:33 <mlnt> s/ LSON-LD/JSON-LD/
15:26:45 <AlexHall> sorry, don't have the free time
Alex Hall: sorry, don't have the free time ←
15:26:45 <ivan> zakim, unmute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute me ←
15:26:45 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should no longer be muted ←
15:28:14 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:28:21 <davidwood> ack ivan
David Wood: ack ivan ←
15:28:27 <ericP> gkellogg: iirc, there's some update to the preamble per cygri's review
Gregg Kellogg: iirc, there's some update to the preamble per cygri's review ←
15:28:38 <mlnt> Link to the latest JSON-LD Syntax Editor's Draft: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/json-ld/raw-file/default/spec/ED/json-ld-syntax/20120830/index.html
Markus Lanthaler: Link to the latest JSON-LD Syntax Editor's Draft: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/json-ld/raw-file/default/spec/ED/json-ld-syntax/20120830/index.html ←
15:28:44 <ericP> ivan: i'm reluctant to review when the TF isn't finished
Ivan Herman: i'm reluctant to review when the TF isn't finished ←
15:29:00 <ericP> ... i'd rather here that they are done with syntax before starting reviews
... i'd rather here that they are done with syntax before starting reviews ←
15:29:19 <AndyS> +1 to Ivan - last reviews were on a changing doc which is less good for reviewers.
Andy Seaborne: +1 to Ivan - last reviews were on a changing doc which is less good for reviewers. ←
15:29:38 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's noisy? ←
15:29:39 <ericP> mlnt: i think there's only one open issue -- checking
Markus Lanthaler: i think there's only one open issue -- checking ←
15:29:49 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (94%), mlnt (28%)
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (94%), mlnt (28%) ←
15:30:00 <MacTed> Zakim, mute mlnt
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute mlnt ←
15:30:00 <Zakim> mlnt should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: mlnt should now be muted ←
15:30:10 <mlnt> Open issues for syntax: https://github.com/json-ld/json-ld.org/issues?milestone=2&page=1&state=open
Markus Lanthaler: Open issues for syntax: https://github.com/json-ld/json-ld.org/issues?milestone=2&page=1&state=open ←
15:30:12 <cygri> i see 6 open syntax issues https://github.com/json-ld/json-ld.org/issues?labels=syntax&page=1&state=open
Richard Cyganiak: i see 6 open syntax issues https://github.com/json-ld/json-ld.org/issues?labels=syntax&page=1&state=open ←
15:30:41 <mlnt> will mute myself MacTed
Markus Lanthaler: will mute myself MacTed ←
15:30:58 <Zakim> -cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri ←
15:31:14 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
15:31:17 <cygri> zakim, ??P3 is me
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, ??P3 is me ←
15:31:17 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it ←
15:31:38 <mlnt> Zakim, unmute me
Markus Lanthaler: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:31:38 <Zakim> mlnt should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: mlnt should no longer be muted ←
15:31:43 <ericP> gavinc: there's an issue around alignment with RDF Concepts. is that tracked in tracker as well?
Gavin Carothers: there's an issue around alignment with RDF Concepts. is that tracked in tracker as well? ←
15:31:52 <gavinc> http://json-ld.org/spec/latest/json-ld-syntax/#relationship-to-other-linked-data-formats-and-data-models was confused by that issue marker
Gavin Carothers: http://json-ld.org/spec/latest/json-ld-syntax/#relationship-to-other-linked-data-formats-and-data-models was confused by that issue marker ←
15:31:56 <ericP> gkellogg: i think that's 155
Gregg Kellogg: i think that's 155 ←
15:32:03 <mlnt> Explicit mapping of JSON-LD terminology to RDF terminology in Appendix "B1. RDF" -> assigned to cygri: https://github.com/json-ld/json-ld.org/issues/157
Markus Lanthaler: Explicit mapping of JSON-LD terminology to RDF terminology in Appendix "B1. RDF" -> assigned to cygri: https://github.com/json-ld/json-ld.org/issues/157 ←
15:32:27 <Zakim> -pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←
15:32:41 <ericP> ACTION: gkellogg to notify cygri and sandro when the JSON-LD Syntax doc is ready for review
ACTION: gkellogg to notify cygri and sandro when the JSON-LD Syntax doc is ready for review ←
15:32:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-187 - Notify cygri and sandro when the JSON-LD Syntax doc is ready for review [on Gregg Kellogg - due 2012-09-26].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-187 - Notify cygri and sandro when the JSON-LD Syntax doc is ready for review [on Gregg Kellogg - due 2012-09-26]. ←
15:33:18 <ericP> topic: Graphs
15:33:45 <ericP> davidwood: there's a proposal from a few days ago that editors incorporate minimal semantics and tests
David Wood: there's a proposal from a few days ago that editors incorporate minimal semantics and tests ←
15:34:06 <davidwood> Zakim, who is on the phone?
David Wood: Zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:34:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, gavinc, AndyS, davidwood, Arnaud, gkellogg, MacTed (muted), Sandro, Ivan, AlexHall, mlnt, AZ, EricP, Souri, cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see yvesr, Guus, gavinc, AndyS, davidwood, Arnaud, gkellogg, MacTed (muted), Sandro, Ivan, AlexHall, mlnt, AZ, EricP, Souri, cygri ←
15:34:07 <ericP> ... since then, mailing list traffic indicates significant issues
... since then, mailing list traffic indicates significant issues ←
15:34:18 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[GVoice] ←
15:34:28 <pfps> zakim, gvoice is temporarily me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, gvoice is temporarily me ←
15:34:28 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it ←
15:34:58 <ericP> antoine: until PatH's last email, i thought we were making progress
Antoine Zimmermann: until PatH's last email, i thought we were making progress ←
15:35:35 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
15:35:35 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
15:35:35 <davidwood> Zakim, who is noisy?
David Wood: Zakim, who is noisy? ←
15:35:38 <ericP> ... but still hoping for a minimal semantics, perhaps even more minimal than the current proposal, but some semantic requirements
... but still hoping for a minimal semantics, perhaps even more minimal than the current proposal, but some semantic requirements ←
15:35:46 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:35:47 <Zakim> davidwood, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (45%), AZ (5%)
Zakim IRC Bot: davidwood, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: davidwood (45%), AZ (5%) ←
15:36:12 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
15:36:12 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
15:36:44 <ericP> pfps: my sentiments have been known for a long time
Peter Patel-Schneider: my sentiments have been known for a long time ←
15:36:58 <ericP> ... i've been pointing out issues with the current proposal
... i've been pointing out issues with the current proposal ←
15:37:44 <ericP> ... i think PatH was referring to a disagreement within the WG with what named graphs should mean, particularly in conjunction with the default graph
... i think PatH was referring to a disagreement within the WG with what named graphs should mean, particularly in conjunction with the default graph ←
15:38:15 <ericP> davidwood: do you believe we can define a more minimal dataset semantics which could be standardized?
David Wood: do you believe we can define a more minimal dataset semantics which could be standardized? ←
15:38:41 <ericP> pfps: i originally proposed that the only semantics should be for graphs.
Peter Patel-Schneider: i originally proposed that the only semantics should be for graphs. ←
15:38:42 <ivan> q-
Ivan Herman: q- ←
15:38:48 <AZ> q+
Antoine Zimmermann: q+ ←
15:39:26 <ericP> ... certain things about the default graph make big changes the meaning of the named graphs
... certain things about the default graph make big changes the meaning of the named graphs ←
15:39:50 <ericP> ... e.g. inconsistent default graph makes the named graphs irrelevent
... e.g. inconsistent default graph makes the named graphs irrelevent ←
15:40:01 <ivan> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Sep/0180.html Pat's email
Ivan Herman: -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Sep/0180.html Pat's email ←
15:40:16 <ericP> ... this is frighteningly powerful
... this is frighteningly powerful ←
15:40:43 <ivan> "Second, I do not see why we need to give a semantics for datasets. " from Pat's email
Ivan Herman: "Second, I do not see why we need to give a semantics for datasets. " from Pat's email ←
15:40:48 <ericP> ... contigent equalities in the default graph could imply contigent equalities in the name graphs which could necessitate merges
... contigent equalities in the default graph could imply contigent equalities in the name graphs which could necessitate merges ←
15:41:03 <ericP> ... could imply high reasoning requirements
... could imply high reasoning requirements ←
15:41:08 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:41:08 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
15:41:10 <ivan> After reading and following all this debate, I agree with Peter.
Ivan Herman: After reading and following all this debate, I agree with Peter. ←
15:42:05 <ivan> (^ was a quote from Pat's mail)
Ivan Herman: (^ was a quote from Pat's mail) ←
15:42:17 <ericP> ... you can define entailment for RDF datasets without defining interpreation for datasets
... you can define entailment for RDF datasets without defining interpretation for datasets ←
15:42:55 <pfps> dataset entailment can be defined in terms of entailment between the constituent graphs (several ways)
Peter Patel-Schneider: dataset entailment can be defined in terms of entailment between the constituent graphs (several ways) ←
15:43:05 <gkellogg> s/interpreation/interpretation/
15:43:11 <ericP> davidwood: given that, i'm starting to understand this debate
David Wood: given that, i'm starting to understand this debate ←
15:43:19 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
15:43:21 <davidwood> ack AZ
David Wood: ack AZ ←
15:43:46 <Zakim> +PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH ←
15:43:47 <ericP> AZ: do you have a concrete example that, even if the default graph is inconsistent, that the whole dataset is inconsistent?
Antoine Zimmermann: do you have a concrete example that, even if the default graph is inconsistent, that the whole dataset is inconsistent? ←
15:44:00 <PatH> sorry im late
Patrick Hayes: sorry im late ←
15:44:38 <ericP> pfps: if the default graph is the merge of the named graphs, and you're merging to be able to look at everything, you wouldn't want an inconsistent merge render the named graphs inconsistent or trivial
Peter Patel-Schneider: if the default graph is the merge of the named graphs, and you're merging to be able to look at everything, you wouldn't want an inconsistent merge render the named graphs inconsistent or trivial ←
15:44:42 <ericP> q?
q? ←
15:44:46 <MacTed> q+
Ted Thibodeau: q+ ←
15:45:15 <PatH> +1 to what peter just said.
Patrick Hayes: +1 to what peter just said. ←
15:45:22 <ericP> pfps: you wouldn't want inconsistencies in the default graph make the whole dataset inconsistent?
Peter Patel-Schneider: you wouldn't want inconsistencies in the default graph make the whole dataset inconsistent? ←
15:45:39 <cygri> perhaps globally rename "dataset interpretation" as "default graph interpretation"?
Richard Cyganiak: perhaps globally rename "dataset interpretation" as "default graph interpretation"? ←
15:45:46 <ericP> q+ to propose an OWL inconsistency and ask what it does to a dataset
q+ to propose an OWL inconsistency and ask what it does to a dataset ←
15:46:13 <ericP> pfps: people could ingore the minimal or stronger semantics and proceed as usual, but they would be out of standard
Peter Patel-Schneider: people could ingore the minimal or stronger semantics and proceed as usual, but they would be out of standard ←
15:46:25 <PatH> no property of any part of the dataset should mean that the dataset as a whole has any property.
Patrick Hayes: no property of any part of the dataset should mean that the dataset as a whole has any property. ←
15:46:36 <Zakim> -cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri ←
15:46:55 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
15:46:55 <ericP> ... would then imply that SPARQL queries on named graphs may be ... inconsistent?
... would then imply that SPARQL queries on named graphs may be ... inconsistent? ←
15:46:57 <PatH> q+
Patrick Hayes: q+ ←
15:47:07 <cygri> zakim, ??P3 is me
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, ??P3 is me ←
15:47:07 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it ←
15:47:36 <davidwood> ack MacTed
David Wood: ack MacTed ←
15:47:42 <ericP> AZ: iirc, if you try to query an graph inconsistent with respect to the entailment regime, the system has to return an error
Antoine Zimmermann: iirc, if you try to query an graph inconsistent with respect to the entailment regime, the system has to return an error ←
15:47:45 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
15:47:45 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
15:47:49 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:47:49 <Zakim> MacTed was not muted, MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed was not muted, MacTed ←
15:48:15 <ericP> MacTed: is the default graph not an implementation-dependent detail?
Ted Thibodeau: is the default graph not an implementation-dependent detail? ←
15:48:38 <ericP> ... sometimes the union of all graphs, sometimes its own thing
... sometimes the union of all graphs, sometimes its own thing ←
15:49:04 <ericP> ... that the union of all named graphs is inconsistent is de rigor
... that the union of all named graphs is inconsistent is de rigor ←
15:49:10 <pfps> the default graph can be anything - the merge, metadata, something unrelated, ....
Peter Patel-Schneider: the default graph can be anything - the merge, metadata, something unrelated, .... ←
15:49:28 <PatH> is there a requirement that the default graph be the union of named graphs?
Patrick Hayes: is there a requirement that the default graph be the union of named graphs? ←
15:49:29 <ericP> ... this sounds like we're going back to saying that anything in RDF must be real truth forevermore
... this sounds like we're going back to saying that anything in RDF must be real truth forevermore ←
15:49:48 <ericP> davidwood: i've never seen a real-world consistent dataset
David Wood: i've never seen a real-world consistent dataset ←
15:49:52 <MacTed> s/de rigor /de rigeur/
Ted Thibodeau: s/de rigor /de rigeur/ (warning: replacement failed) ←
15:50:14 <gavinc> no.
Gavin Carothers: no. ←
15:50:25 <ericP> PatH: i think we have to understand "inconsistency"
Patrick Hayes: i think we have to understand "inconsistency" ←
15:50:38 <ericP> ... it's hard to create inconsistency just in RDF
... it's hard to create inconsistency just in RDF ←
15:50:51 <ericP> davidwood: but folks say "it will break OWL"
David Wood: but folks say "it will break OWL" ←
15:51:10 <davidwood> ack ericP
David Wood: ack ericP ←
15:51:10 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to propose an OWL inconsistency and ask what it does to a dataset
Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to propose an OWL inconsistency and ask what it does to a dataset ←
15:51:42 <gkellogg> lastModified duplication inconsistency too.
Gregg Kellogg: lastModified duplication inconsistency too. ←
15:51:47 <AlexHall> is it possible for a graph to be RDF-Simple inconsistent?
Alex Hall: is it possible for a graph to be RDF-Simple inconsistent? ←
15:52:19 <cygri> AlexHall, yes, via broken rdf:XMLLiterals
Richard Cyganiak: AlexHall, yes, via broken rdf:XMLLiterals ←
15:52:28 <PatH> alexhall, yes but only by doing something insane with an xml literal
Patrick Hayes: alexhall, yes but only by doing something insane with an xml literal ←
15:52:34 <AndyS> Alex - with RDF XML lIterals (only, IIRC) Only datatype fixed in RDF-basic
Andy Seaborne: Alex - with RDF XML lIterals (only, IIRC) Only datatype fixed in RDF-basic ←
15:52:39 <AlexHall> ahh, forgot about that
Alex Hall: ahh, forgot about that ←
15:52:46 <AZ> In SPARQL 1.1 Entailment Regimes: The scoping graph is graph-equivalent to the active graph even if the active graph is RDFS-inconsistent. If the active graph is RDFS-inconsistent, an implementation MAY raise a QueryRequestRefused fault or issue a warning and it SHOULD generate such a fault or warning if, in the course of processing, it determines that the data or query is not compatible with the request. In the presence of an inconsistency the conditions on solut
Antoine Zimmermann: In SPARQL 1.1 Entailment Regimes: The scoping graph is graph-equivalent to the active graph even if the active graph is RDFS-inconsistent. If the active graph is RDFS-inconsistent, an implementation MAY raise a QueryRequestRefused fault or issue a warning and it SHOULD generate such a fault or warning if, in the course of processing, it determines that the data or query is not compatible with the request. In the presence of an inconsistency the conditions on solut ←
15:53:11 <AZ> (this is for RDFS but it's essentially the same for other regimes)
Antoine Zimmermann: (this is for RDFS but it's essentially the same for other regimes) ←
15:53:42 <AlexHall> does that still hold with the XMLLiteral changes in 1.1?
Alex Hall: does that still hold with the XMLLiteral changes in 1.1? ←
15:54:27 <AlexHall> aren't they optional now, i.e. not folded into basic RDF?
Alex Hall: aren't they optional now, i.e. not folded into basic RDF? ←
15:54:30 <PatH> alex, likely not.
Patrick Hayes: alex, likely not. ←
15:54:40 <cygri> AlexHall, yes. XMLLiterals still have to be well-formed XML. the change was only that they no longer need to be normalized
Richard Cyganiak: AlexHall, yes. XMLLiterals still have to be well-formed XML. the change was only that they no longer need to be normalized ←
15:55:00 <AlexHall> got it, thanks.
15:55:06 <AZ> cygri, with "simple entailment", all RDF graphs are "simple-consistent"
Antoine Zimmermann: cygri, with "simple entailment", all RDF graphs are "simple-consistent" ←
15:55:29 <ericP> sandro: agreeing with ericP [he can do that?], it would be nice to have a tree of reference
Sandro Hawke: agreeing with ericP [he can do that?], it would be nice to have a tree of reference ←
15:55:42 <AZ> inconsistency only occurs in RDFS and its extensions
Antoine Zimmermann: inconsistency only occurs in RDFS and its extensions ←
15:55:49 <cygri> AZ, AlexHall: right, simple entailment != RDF entailment. i was talking about RDF entailment
Richard Cyganiak: AZ, AlexHall: right, simple entailment != RDF entailment. i was talking about RDF entailment ←
15:55:50 <ericP> ... i view the default graph as the place to put the metadata because i don't know where else to put it
... i view the default graph as the place to put the metadata because i don't know where else to put it ←
15:57:00 <AlexHall> ah yes, "Simple Entailment between RDF graphs" != "RDF Entailment"
Alex Hall: ah yes, "Simple Entailment between RDF graphs" != "RDF Entailment" ←
15:57:20 <AndyS> Common case - one graph - no named graphs.
Andy Seaborne: Common case - one graph - no named graphs. ←
15:58:45 <cygri> sandro++
Richard Cyganiak: sandro++ ←
16:00:35 <davidwood> ack PatH
David Wood: ack PatH ←
16:00:38 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
16:00:46 <ericP> ... folks seem pretty comfortable with that notion but it bumps up into the occasional SPARQL usage of the default graph as a union of all graphs
... folks seem pretty comfortable with that notion but it bumps up into the occasional SPARQL usage of the default graph as a union of all graphs ←
16:01:08 <ericP> ericP: or the common SPARQL usage with a pre-loaded default graph
Eric Prud'hommeaux: or the common SPARQL usage with a pre-loaded default graph ←
16:01:23 <ericP> PatH: there are several ways default graphs are being used
Patrick Hayes: there are several ways default graphs are being used ←
16:01:44 <ericP> ... so we don't want to impose a relationship between default graph and named graphs
... so we don't want to impose a relationship between default graph and named graphs ←
16:01:47 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:01:59 <AZ> q+
Antoine Zimmermann: q+ ←
16:02:02 <pfps> what is the relationship that SPARQL suggests?
Peter Patel-Schneider: what is the relationship that SPARQL suggests? ←
16:02:16 <Zakim> -cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri ←
16:02:35 <davidwood> ack ivan
David Wood: ack ivan ←
16:02:44 <ericP> ... so maybe we should should not define that at all
... so maybe we should should not define that at all ←
16:02:53 <ericP> ivan: PatH was quicker than i
Ivan Herman: PatH was quicker than i ←
16:03:01 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
16:03:05 <cygri> zakim, ??P13 is me
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, ??P13 is me ←
16:03:05 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it ←
16:03:17 <ericP> ... are we facing such divergence that it's wisest not to standardize dataset semantics
... are we facing such divergence that it's wisest not to standardize dataset semantics ←
16:03:29 <ericP> ... that said, it could be nice to document what we have
... that said, it could be nice to document what we have ←
16:03:58 <sandro> q+
Sandro Hawke: q+ ←
16:04:09 <ericP> ... e.g. publish the wiki as a note documenting one approach
... e.g. publish the wiki as a note documenting one approach ←
16:04:38 <cygri> the main troublesome divergent practice is "default graph for metadata" vs "default graph as union graph"
Richard Cyganiak: the main troublesome divergent practice is "default graph for metadata" vs "default graph as union graph" ←
16:04:43 <davidwood> ack AZ
David Wood: ack AZ ←
16:04:56 <sandro> q+ to say okay with no semantics for datasets, but trig still needs some way to include metadata.
Sandro Hawke: q+ to say okay with no semantics for datasets, but trig still needs some way to include metadata. ←
16:05:01 <ericP> davidwood: we need to document what we have, but not sure it serves much of the community
David Wood: we need to document what we have, but not sure it serves much of the community ←
16:05:18 <Zakim> -gkellogg
Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg ←
16:05:18 <ericP> AZ: there shouldn't be a relationship between the default graph and the named graphs
Antoine Zimmermann: there shouldn't be a relationship between the default graph and the named graphs ←
16:05:30 <PatH> cygri, there also seems to be default as a distillation of the consistent parts of the named graphs.
Patrick Hayes: cygri, there also seems to be default as a distillation of the consistent parts of the named graphs. ←
16:05:50 <cygri> PatH, not sure what that means. where have you seen this?
Richard Cyganiak: PatH, not sure what that means. where have you seen this? ←
16:05:53 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
16:05:53 <Zakim> pfps was already muted, pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was already muted, pfps ←
16:06:04 <ericP> ... i propose something weaker, that inconsistency in the default graph means the name graphs are inconsistent
... i propose something weaker, that inconsistency in the default graph means the name graphs are inconsistent ←
16:06:14 <ivan> zakim, who is noisy?
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is noisy? ←
16:06:14 <davidwood> PatH, that would be news to me (and horrible to implement)
David Wood: PatH, that would be news to me (and horrible to implement) ←
16:06:23 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
16:06:24 <Zakim> ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: gavinc (55%), MacTed (5%)
Zakim IRC Bot: ivan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: gavinc (55%), MacTed (5%) ←
16:06:29 <Zakim> +??P73
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P73 ←
16:06:33 <davidwood> ack sandro
David Wood: ack sandro ←
16:06:33 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to say okay with no semantics for datasets, but trig still needs some way to include metadata.
Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to say okay with no semantics for datasets, but trig still needs some way to include metadata. ←
16:06:35 <ericP> ... i think the union default graph is mostly internal, in which case it's not *the* default graph
... i think the union default graph is mostly internal, in which case it's not *the* default graph ←
16:06:38 <gkellogg> zakim, ??P73 is me
Gregg Kellogg: zakim, ??P73 is me ←
16:06:43 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it ←
16:06:55 <ericP> sandro: i think that a lot of the issues are coming from pfps's issues with the default graph
Sandro Hawke: i think that a lot of the issues are coming from pfps's issues with the default graph ←
16:07:12 <ericP> ... noting ivan's suggestion that we skip semantics
... noting ivan's suggestion that we skip semantics ←
16:07:17 <PatH> cygri, isnt this what people are talking about when they talk about the need to keep dirty data clearly separated intro the named graphs?
Patrick Hayes: cygri, isnt this what people are talking about when they talk about the need to keep dirty data clearly separated intro the named graphs? ←
16:07:27 <ericP> ... SPARQL 1.1 Service Description has a place to store metadata
... SPARQL 1.1 Service Description has a place to store metadata ←
16:07:47 <cygri> PatH, no, that doesn't involve the default graph at all
Richard Cyganiak: PatH, no, that doesn't involve the default graph at all ←
16:07:47 <gavinc> ... what huh? Why the heck do I need a magic "metadata" graph?
Gavin Carothers: ... what huh? Why the heck do I need a magic "metadata" graph? ←
16:08:11 <PatH> cygri, then i am completely confused.
Patrick Hayes: cygri, then i am completely confused. ←
16:08:14 <ericP> ... there are other ways we could store it in trig
... there are other ways we could store it in trig ←
16:08:15 <AndyS> so document use cases and solutions?
Andy Seaborne: so document use cases and solutions? ←
16:08:40 <ericP> davidwood: why do we have disagreement on this simple use case
David Wood: why do we have disagreement on this simple use case ←
16:09:04 <PatH> q+ to ask dumb clarification question
Patrick Hayes: q+ to ask dumb clarification question ←
16:09:20 <ericP> ... sandro wants to grab a gtext from the web, shove it in a gbox, and talk about it
... sandro wants to grab a gtext from the web, shove it in a gbox, and talk about it ←
16:09:29 <pfps> I have nothing against using the default graph to store metadata. I'm just against requiring the default graph for that purpose. It seems to me that there are very many potential uses for the default graph, and none of them dominate.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I have nothing against using the default graph to store metadata. I'm just against requiring the default graph for that purpose. It seems to me that there are very many potential uses for the default graph, and none of them dominate. ←
16:09:31 <cygri> PatH, that's why we need *named graphs* in the first place. it doesn't say why we need a default graph
Richard Cyganiak: PatH, that's why we need *named graphs* in the first place. it doesn't say why we need a default graph ←
16:09:36 <ericP> ... this sue case still seems to be causing dissention
... this sue case still seems to be causing dissention ←
16:09:46 <gavinc> I think this is a fine use case, I just do NOT understand why there needs to be MORE MAGIC
Gavin Carothers: I think this is a fine use case, I just do NOT understand why there needs to be MORE MAGIC ←
16:09:52 <davidwood> ack PatH
David Wood: ack PatH ←
16:09:52 <Zakim> PatH, you wanted to ask dumb clarification question
Zakim IRC Bot: PatH, you wanted to ask dumb clarification question ←
16:09:53 <ericP> ... why wouldn't we want a dataset in order to describe it?
... why wouldn't we want a dataset in order to describe it? ←
16:09:55 <pfps> +1 to gavin
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to gavin ←
16:10:43 <ericP> PatH: re: the irc discussion above, since day 1 we've noted that data on the web is dirty so it needs to be stored in separate named graphs
Patrick Hayes: re: the irc discussion above, since day 1 we've noted that data on the web is dirty so it needs to be stored in separate named graphs ←
16:10:59 <ericP> ... i've been assuming that default graph was the place where you stored what you believed
... i've been assuming that default graph was the place where you stored what you believed ←
16:11:16 <pfps> I don't think that Pat is wrong, he is just thinking of a particular use of the default graph.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I don't think that Pat is wrong, he is just thinking of a particular use of the default graph. ←
16:11:31 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
16:11:31 <Zakim> MacTed was not muted, MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed was not muted, MacTed ←
16:11:34 <ericP> ... if the reason for having named graphs is to compartmentalize dirt, what's the purpose of the default graph
... if the reason for having named graphs is to compartmentalize dirt, what's the purpose of the default graph ←
16:12:08 <sandro> pat: I thought the idea was to put the accepted part of the data into the default graph
Patrick Hayes: I thought the idea was to put the accepted part of the data into the default graph [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:12:12 <ericP> cygri: you mentioned "putting the accepted parts of the named graphs in the default graph"
Richard Cyganiak: you mentioned "putting the accepted parts of the named graphs in the default graph" ←
16:12:18 <sandro> cygri: well, the metadata, at least.
Richard Cyganiak: well, the metadata, at least. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:12:28 <pfps> Huh, metadata isn't data (or at least certainly isn't *all* data, or even all clean data).
Peter Patel-Schneider: Huh, metadata isn't data (or at least certainly isn't *all* data, or even all clean data). ←
16:12:48 <ericP> ... i've seen people store metadata in the named graphs, but i've not seen certain named graphs annointed and imported into the default graph
... i've seen people store metadata in the named graphs, but i've not seen certain named graphs annointed and imported into the default graph ←
16:13:00 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:13:24 <ericP> PatH: so i should model the typical use of the default graph as being to hold metadata
Patrick Hayes: so i should model the typical use of the default graph as being to hold metadata ←
16:13:27 <gavinc> But you can put the metadata in ANOTHER named graph
Gavin Carothers: But you can put the metadata in ANOTHER named graph ←
16:13:31 <sandro> q+ to say it's about accountability (provenance, feedback) not dirt, per se.
Sandro Hawke: q+ to say it's about accountability (provenance, feedback) not dirt, per se. ←
16:13:47 <ericP> ... so when i'm grabbing diverse data, is should think of the default graph as metadata?
... so when i'm grabbing diverse data, is should think of the default graph as metadata? ←
16:14:23 <davidwood> Ted: There are no underlying truths of the (Web) universe
Ted Thibodeau: There are no underlying truths of the (Web) universe [ Scribe Assist by David Wood ] ←
16:14:31 <ericP> MacTed: in the scenario you described, the default graph should only hold underlying truths of the universe
Ted Thibodeau: in the scenario you described, the default graph should only hold underlying truths of the universe ←
16:14:46 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
16:14:57 <pfps> one can also think of using the default graph for the main data, and named graphs for other purposes (e.g., working with annotations) - Bijan proposed this in the OWL WG (not using datasets of course)
Peter Patel-Schneider: one can also think of using the default graph for the main data, and named graphs for other purposes (e.g., working with annotations) - Bijan proposed this in the OWL WG (not using datasets of course) ←
16:15:00 <sandro> davidwood, extend meeting? this eems kinda productive.
Sandro Hawke: davidwood, extend meeting? this eems kinda productive. ←
16:15:02 <ericP> ... i agree with sandro, [<sandro> q+ to say it's about accountability (provenance, feedback) not dirt, per se.]
... i agree with sandro, [<sandro> q+ to say it's about accountability (provenance, feedback) not dirt, per se.] ←
16:15:07 <davidwood> sandro, yes
David Wood: sandro, yes ←
16:15:13 <gavinc> The default graph is the graph that is queried when you don't say use a specific graph :P
Gavin Carothers: The default graph is the graph that is queried when you don't say use a specific graph :P ←
16:15:18 <ericP> ... the default graph is an implementation detail, not an RDF detail
... the default graph is an implementation detail, not an RDF detail ←
16:15:21 <gavinc> The "default"
Gavin Carothers: The "default" ←
16:15:23 <sandro> +1 extend
Sandro Hawke: +1 extend ←
16:15:29 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
16:15:33 <davidwood> ack ivan
David Wood: ack ivan ←
16:15:40 <davidwood> Thanks, pfps
David Wood: Thanks, pfps ←
16:15:44 <Zakim> -pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←
16:16:20 <ericP> ivan: per what MacTed said, some SPARQL engines use a union of named graphs as the default graph
Ivan Herman: per what MacTed said, some SPARQL engines use a union of named graphs as the default graph ←
16:16:26 <sandro> ivan: We may be diverted by SPARQL's union-default graphs. That's just an implementation thing, not something we should worry about.
Ivan Herman: We may be diverted by SPARQL's union-default graphs. That's just an implementation thing, not something we should worry about. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:16:28 <ericP> ... we shouldn't take that into account
... we shouldn't take that into account ←
16:16:32 <cygri> ivan++
Richard Cyganiak: ivan++ ←
16:16:44 <AZ> +1 ivan
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ivan ←
16:16:45 <ericP> ... what we model is a set of graphs, one called the default
... what we model is a set of graphs, one called the default ←
16:16:47 <gavinc> Default exists at QUERY time.
Gavin Carothers: Default exists at QUERY time. ←
16:16:51 <Souri> I agree with Ivan: unnamed graph != SPARQL default graph
Souripriya Das: I agree with Ivan: unnamed graph != SPARQL default graph ←
16:16:52 <sandro> +1 ivan (let's not worry about union-default graphs)
Sandro Hawke: +1 ivan (let's not worry about union-default graphs) ←
16:16:58 <ericP> q+ to talk about *fixed* default graphs
q+ to talk about *fixed* default graphs ←
16:16:58 <gavinc> It doesn't "exist" strongly
Gavin Carothers: It doesn't "exist" strongly ←
16:17:18 <gavinc> "a default graph consisting of the RDF merge of the graphs referred to in the FROM clauses, and"
Gavin Carothers: "a default graph consisting of the RDF merge of the graphs referred to in the FROM clauses, and" ←
16:17:25 <PatH> ok, thanks for the explanation. I conclude that it is even more important for us to to NOT impose ANY semantic relationship between the default graph and the dataset.
Patrick Hayes: ok, thanks for the explanation. I conclude that it is even more important for us to to NOT impose ANY semantic relationship between the default graph and the dataset. ←
16:17:31 <davidwood> ack sandro
David Wood: ack sandro ←
16:17:31 <Zakim> sandro, you wanted to say it's about accountability (provenance, feedback) not dirt, per se.
Zakim IRC Bot: sandro, you wanted to say it's about accountability (provenance, feedback) not dirt, per se. ←
16:17:51 <ericP> davidwood: we got into this in order to address SPARQL, but maybe it's ok if it's not a core RDF point
David Wood: we got into this in order to address SPARQL, but maybe it's ok if it's not a core RDF point ←
16:17:51 <gavinc> +q the ONLY defined form of "default" graph from SPARQL query IS as a merge
Gavin Carothers: +q the ONLY defined form of "default" graph from SPARQL query IS as a merge ←
16:17:56 <sandro> PROPOSED: RDF-WG is not concerned about compatibility with some SPRARLQ implemtnation union-of-graphs default graph?
PROPOSED: RDF-WG is not concerned about compatibility with some SPRARLQ implemtnation union-of-graphs default graph? ←
16:17:58 <gavinc> +q to say the ONLY defined form of "default" graph from SPARQL query IS as a merge
Gavin Carothers: +q to say the ONLY defined form of "default" graph from SPARQL query IS as a merge ←
16:18:14 <Zakim> -cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri ←
16:18:20 <AZ> I like this proposition
Antoine Zimmermann: I like this proposition ←
16:18:27 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
16:18:43 <cygri> zakim, ??P13 is me
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, ??P13 is me ←
16:18:43 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it ←
16:18:48 <ericP> sandro: re: PatH's discussion of dirty data in named graphs, it's more about provenance than dirt
Sandro Hawke: re: PatH's discussion of dirty data in named graphs, it's more about provenance than dirt ←
16:19:13 <PatH> OK, I was speaking informally, obviously.
Patrick Hayes: OK, I was speaking informally, obviously. ←
16:19:14 <ericP> ... folks downstream can make decisions about the utility/cleanliness
... folks downstream can make decisions about the utility/cleanliness ←
16:19:25 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
16:19:31 <davidwood> ack ericP
David Wood: ack ericP ←
16:19:31 <Zakim> ericP, you wanted to talk about *fixed* default graphs
Zakim IRC Bot: ericP, you wanted to talk about *fixed* default graphs ←
16:21:09 <PatH> surely the default graph is "special" in some way.
Patrick Hayes: surely the default graph is "special" in some way. ←
16:21:12 <davidwood> ack gavinc
David Wood: ack gavinc ←
16:21:12 <Zakim> gavinc, you wanted to say the ONLY defined form of "default" graph from SPARQL query IS as a merge
Zakim IRC Bot: gavinc, you wanted to say the ONLY defined form of "default" graph from SPARQL query IS as a merge ←
16:21:44 <sandro> PROPOSED: The RDF-WG in considering semantics of Datasets is not guided by concerns of compatibility with those SPARQL engines which choose to make their default graph automatically be the union of all the named graphs.
PROPOSED: The RDF-WG in considering semantics of Datasets is not guided by concerns of compatibility with those SPARQL engines which choose to make their default graph automatically be the union of all the named graphs. ←
16:21:45 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/#rdfDataset
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/#rdfDataset ←
16:22:06 <cygri> q+
Richard Cyganiak: q+ ←
16:22:07 <ericP> ericP: many SPARQL implementations have a prescribed default graph.
Eric Prud'hommeaux: many SPARQL implementations have a prescribed default graph. ←
16:22:30 <AZ> Should we distinguish "SPARQL dataset" and "RDF dataset"?
Antoine Zimmermann: Should we distinguish "SPARQL dataset" and "RDF dataset"? ←
16:22:53 <ericP> ... for their use cases, it must have certain contents. it may be uncomfortable for someone else to say that it has to contain other stuff
... for their use cases, it must have certain contents. it may be uncomfortable for someone else to say that it has to contain other stuff ←
16:22:54 <cygri> most SPARQL queries don't use FROM.
Richard Cyganiak: most SPARQL queries don't use FROM. ←
16:22:54 <PatH> from the above,
Patrick Hayes: from the above, ←
16:22:57 <PatH> "
Patrick Hayes: " ←
16:23:02 <AndyS> Most queries do not have FROM in them. Forget that part for this discussion. There is a dft graph to query - it just "is".
Andy Seaborne: Most queries do not have FROM in them. Forget that part for this discussion. There is a dft graph to query - it just "is". ←
16:23:05 <PatH> "13.1 Examples of RDF Datasets The definition of RDF Dataset does not restrict the relationships of named and default graphs."
Patrick Hayes: "13.1 Examples of RDF Datasets The definition of RDF Dataset does not restrict the relationships of named and default graphs." ←
16:23:20 <PatH> +1 to last speaker
Patrick Hayes: +1 to last speaker ←
16:24:01 <cygri> FROM != FROM NAMED
Richard Cyganiak: FROM != FROM NAMED ←
16:24:03 <ericP> gavinc: we're treating the default graph as fixed, but SPARQL queries with FROM change the default graph
Gavin Carothers: we're treating the default graph as fixed, but SPARQL queries with FROM change the default graph ←
16:25:02 <PatH> what???
Patrick Hayes: what??? ←
16:25:07 <davidwood> The default graph formed by a SPARQL query is *transient*
David Wood: The default graph formed by a SPARQL query is *transient* ←
16:25:09 <sandro> PROPOSED: The RDF-WG in considering semantics of Datasets is not guided by concerns of compatibility with those SPARQL engines which choose to make their default graph automatically be the union of all the named graphs.
PROPOSED: The RDF-WG in considering semantics of Datasets is not guided by concerns of compatibility with those SPARQL engines which choose to make their default graph automatically be the union of all the named graphs. ←
16:25:18 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
16:25:29 <gavinc> -0.9
Gavin Carothers: -0.9 ←
16:25:33 <gkellogg> +1
Gregg Kellogg: +1 ←
16:25:37 <sandro> +0.5
Sandro Hawke: +0.5 ←
16:25:42 <Souri> +1
Souripriya Das: +1 ←
16:25:44 <PatH> -1
Patrick Hayes: -1 ←
16:25:50 <AZ> +1
Antoine Zimmermann: +1 ←
16:25:57 <davidwood> +1
David Wood: +1 ←
16:26:02 <PatH> we should be **compatible**
Patrick Hayes: we should be **compatible** ←
16:26:02 <cygri> gavinc, FROM and FROM NAMED both build a new dataset. most SPARQL queries use a pre-existing dataset that is provided by the store/service.
Richard Cyganiak: gavinc, FROM and FROM NAMED both build a new dataset. most SPARQL queries use a pre-existing dataset that is provided by the store/service. ←
16:26:06 <AndyS> 0 (OK-ish but bad framing for a significant minority - the "context" people)
Andy Seaborne: 0 (OK-ish but bad framing for a significant minority - the "context" people) ←
16:26:30 <sandro> +1 <cygri> gavinc, FROM and FROM NAMED both build a new dataset. most SPARQL queries use a pre-existing dataset that is provided by the store/service.
Sandro Hawke: +1 <cygri> gavinc, FROM and FROM NAMED both build a new dataset. most SPARQL queries use a pre-existing dataset that is provided by the store/service. ←
16:26:33 <AndyS> +1 to cygri
Andy Seaborne: +1 to cygri ←
16:26:41 <davidwood> PatH, we should be compatible, yes. But there may be no compatibility issue here.
David Wood: PatH, we should be compatible, yes. But there may be no compatibility issue here. ←
16:26:57 <ericP> i think "union" is a red herring. what we care about is those SPARQL endpoints with a prescribed default graph
i think "union" is a red herring. what we care about is those SPARQL endpoints with a prescribed default graph ←
16:26:57 <Arnaud> 0 (would rather know how common this is before deciding)
Arnaud Le Hors: 0 (would rather know how common this is before deciding) ←
16:27:21 <sandro> great meeting, guys. :-)
Sandro Hawke: great meeting, guys. :-) ←
16:27:31 <PatH> david, but as stated it says we should not consider cvompatibility. bad wording.
Patrick Hayes: david, but as stated it says we should not consider cvompatibility. bad wording. ←
16:27:49 <AndyS> There is a dataset (G, (ni,Gi)), it is queried.
Andy Seaborne: There is a dataset (G, (ni,Gi)), it is queried. ←
16:27:53 <AlexHall> default graph as union is an implementation detail. it can be treated as a distinct graph at query time and not run afoul of anything we're doing here.
Alex Hall: default graph as union is an implementation detail. it can be treated as a distinct graph at query time and not run afoul of anything we're doing here. ←
16:28:26 <AndyS> +1 to Alex
Andy Seaborne: +1 to Alex ←
16:28:30 <gavinc> +1
Gavin Carothers: +1 ←
16:28:39 <PatH> but that is irrelevant.
Patrick Hayes: but that is irrelevant. ←
16:28:52 <Zakim> -gkellogg
Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg ←
16:28:53 <Zakim> -Souri
Zakim IRC Bot: -Souri ←
16:28:54 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
16:28:55 <Zakim> -AlexHall
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexHall ←
16:28:55 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
16:28:56 <Zakim> -cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri ←
16:28:56 <Zakim> -PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH ←
16:28:58 <Zakim> -mlnt
Zakim IRC Bot: -mlnt ←
16:28:59 <Zakim> -EricP
Zakim IRC Bot: -EricP ←
16:29:05 <Zakim> -davidwood
Zakim IRC Bot: -davidwood ←
16:29:07 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
16:29:09 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
16:29:11 <Zakim> -gavinc
Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc ←
16:29:13 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
16:29:17 <Zakim> -yvesr
Zakim IRC Bot: -yvesr ←
16:29:29 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
16:30:26 <davidwood> Quoting from http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/#rdfDataset "A SPARQL query can match different parts of the query pattern against different graphs as described in section 13.3 Querying the Dataset."
David Wood: Quoting from http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-query/#rdfDataset "A SPARQL query can match different parts of the query pattern against different graphs as described in section 13.3 Querying the Dataset." ←
16:30:55 <davidwood> That section (13.3) starts by saying, "When querying a collection of graphs"
David Wood: That section (13.3) starts by saying, "When querying a collection of graphs" ←
16:31:30 <davidwood> Therefore, I'm not sure RDF datasets as defined in SPARQL apply when FROM and FROM NAMED aren't used.
David Wood: Therefore, I'm not sure RDF datasets as defined in SPARQL apply when FROM and FROM NAMED aren't used. ←
16:31:43 <AndyS> 13.3 : A SPARQL query *may* specify the dataset to be used for matching by using the FROM clause and the FROM NAMED clause to describe the RDF dataset.
Andy Seaborne: 13.3 : A SPARQL query *may* specify the dataset to be used for matching by using the FROM clause and the FROM NAMED clause to describe the RDF dataset. ←
16:31:45 <davidwood> However, I'll take the advice and read more.
David Wood: However, I'll take the advice and read more. ←
16:32:11 <Zakim> -Guus
Zakim IRC Bot: -Guus ←
16:32:14 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended ←
16:32:15 <Zakim> Attendees were Guus, gavinc, davidwood, Arnaud, yvesr, AndyS, cygri, gkellogg, MacTed, Sandro, Ivan, AlexHall, mlnt, AZ, EricP, pfps, Souri, PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Guus, gavinc, davidwood, Arnaud, yvesr, AndyS, cygri, gkellogg, MacTed, Sandro, Ivan, AlexHall, mlnt, AZ, EricP, pfps, Souri, PatH ←
16:32:20 <AndyS> "If a query provides such a dataset description ..."
Andy Seaborne: "If a query provides such a dataset description ..." ←
16:32:25 <Zakim> apparently SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended, tlr
Zakim IRC Bot: apparently SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has ended, tlr ←
16:32:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see tlr, PatH, pfps, Arnaud, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, AndyS, mischat1, MacTed, gkellogg, gavinc, manu, manu1, davidwood, yvesr, ericP, trackbot, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see tlr, PatH, pfps, Arnaud, Zakim, RRSAgent, Guus, AndyS, mischat1, MacTed, gkellogg, gavinc, manu, manu1, davidwood, yvesr, ericP, trackbot, sandro ←
16:33:00 <davidwood> AndyS, I think you mean section 13.2
David Wood: AndyS, I think you mean section 13.2 ←
16:33:36 <AndyS> probably.
Andy Seaborne: probably. ←
16:33:36 <davidwood> "A SPARQL query may specify the dataset to be used for matching by using the FROM clause and the FROM NAMED clause to describe the RDF dataset. If a query provides such a dataset description, then it is used in place of any dataset that the query service would use if no dataset description is provided in a query."
David Wood: "A SPARQL query may specify the dataset to be used for matching by using the FROM clause and the FROM NAMED clause to describe the RDF dataset. If a query provides such a dataset description, then it is used in place of any dataset that the query service would use if no dataset description is provided in a query." ←
16:34:03 <davidwood> Right, so there is a notion of a "default dataset", which is completely (as far as I can tell) implementation dependent.
David Wood: Right, so there is a notion of a "default dataset", which is completely (as far as I can tell) implementation dependent. ←
16:34:40 <AndyS> All data at an end point is impl dependent. (That's why you go there!:-))
Andy Seaborne: All data at an end point is impl dependent. (That's why you go there!:-)) ←
16:35:00 <davidwood> That is, not defined in any way by the RDF family of specifications, nor in SPARQL specs. It is up to implementations of a SPARQL endpoint how to define such a default dataset. Is that right?
David Wood: That is, not defined in any way by the RDF family of specifications, nor in SPARQL specs. It is up to implementations of a SPARQL endpoint how to define such a default dataset. Is that right? ←
16:36:19 <AndyS> A service offers (1) some dataset or (2) a way to build one. (1) is most common on the web by a long way. There is also examples of "pick from local storage".
Andy Seaborne: A service offers (1) some dataset or (2) a way to build one. (1) is most common on the web by a long way. There is also examples of "pick from local storage". ←
16:37:38 <davidwood> Yes, I think we agree now.
David Wood: Yes, I think we agree now. ←
16:37:40 <davidwood> Thanks
David Wood: Thanks ←
16:37:42 <AndyS> "union" is just a way to explain where dft came from (esp. "context" people). Not relevant at query time.
Andy Seaborne: "union" is just a way to explain where dft came from (esp. "context" people). Not relevant at query time. ←
16:38:05 <davidwood> Sorry it took me so long to page in the spec.
David Wood: Sorry it took me so long to page in the spec. ←
16:39:48 <AndyS> Few web endpoints offer general load-from-web-and-query for some strange reason.
Andy Seaborne: Few web endpoints offer general load-from-web-and-query for some strange reason. ←
16:43:18 <davidwood> Security (DoS attacks). Any such system could be brought to its knees too easily.
David Wood: Security (DoS attacks). Any such system could be brought to its knees too easily. ←
16:43:59 <davidwood> I'm tempted to bring up a service like that on EC2, though, with throwaway machines that kill themselves on paging.
David Wood: I'm tempted to bring up a service like that on EC2, though, with throwaway machines that kill themselves on paging. ←
17:07:02 <MacTed> URIBurner.com does a load-from-web (queued task) and query (all data is available through SPARQL endpoint once the load's done)... of course, there are various throttles in place
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Ted Thibodeau: URIBurner.com does a load-from-web (queued task) and query (all data is available through SPARQL endpoint once the load's done)... of course, there are various throttles in place ←
17:53:49 <davidwood> Yeah, I use URIBurner every now and then. It is a cool and useful service.
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David Wood: Yeah, I use URIBurner every now and then. It is a cool and useful service. ←
Formatted by CommonScribe