14:55:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/08-rdf-wg-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/08-rdf-wg-irc ←
14:55:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:55:43 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 73394
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be 73394 ←
14:55:43 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes ←
14:55:44 <trackbot> Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference
14:55:44 <trackbot> Date: 08 August 2012
14:57:44 <Zakim> SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has now started ←
14:57:50 <Zakim> +??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←
14:57:55 <AndyS> zakim, ??P8 is me
Andy Seaborne: zakim, ??P8 is me ←
14:57:55 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AndyS; got it ←
14:58:22 <Zakim> +??P9
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9 ←
14:58:27 <SteveH__> Zakim, ??P9 is me
Steve Harris: Zakim, ??P9 is me ←
14:58:27 <Zakim> +SteveH__; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH__; got it ←
14:58:59 <SteveH> Zakim, SteveH__ is me
Steve Harris: Zakim, SteveH__ is me ←
14:58:59 <Zakim> +SteveH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveH; got it ←
14:59:17 <Zakim> + +1.707.861.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.861.aaaa ←
14:59:24 <gavinc> Zakim, aaaa is me
Gavin Carothers: Zakim, aaaa is me ←
14:59:24 <Zakim> +gavinc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gavinc; got it ←
14:59:50 <Zakim> +David
Zakim IRC Bot: +David ←
14:59:53 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
14:59:53 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
14:59:55 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
15:00:06 <ivan> zakim, mute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me ←
15:00:06 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
15:00:07 <Zakim> +sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +sandro ←
15:00:24 <Zakim> +[IBM]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←
15:00:25 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
Andy Seaborne: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
15:00:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see AndyS, SteveH, gavinc, David, Ivan (muted), sandro, [IBM]
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see AndyS, SteveH, gavinc, David, Ivan (muted), sandro, [IBM] ←
15:00:32 <Zakim> +mhausenblas
Zakim IRC Bot: +mhausenblas ←
15:00:38 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me
Richard Cyganiak: zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me ←
15:00:38 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cygri; got it ←
15:00:48 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
15:00:49 <Zakim> +??P17
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←
15:01:00 <pfps> I can scribe.
Peter Patel-Schneider: I can scribe. ←
15:01:13 <AZ> Zakim, ??P17 is me
Antoine Zimmermann: Zakim, ??P17 is me ←
15:01:13 <Zakim> +AZ; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AZ; got it ←
15:01:45 <davidwood> scribenick: pfps
(Scribe set to Peter Patel-Schneider)
15:02:24 <pfps> Topic: Administration
15:02:56 <pfps> david: last two minutes are not ready
David Wood: last two minutes are not ready ←
15:02:01 <gavinc> Not so much, http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-07-25 404 :(
Gavin Carothers: Not so much, http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-07-25 404 :( ←
15:02:17 <gavinc> also http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-07-11 not so much :(
Gavin Carothers: also http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-07-11 not so much :( ←
15:02:57 <Zakim> +??P3
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P3 ←
15:03:07 <gkellogg> zakim, I am ??P3
Gregg Kellogg: zakim, I am ??P3 ←
15:03:07 <Zakim> +gkellogg; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +gkellogg; got it ←
15:03:15 <Zakim> + +1.443.212.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.443.212.aabb ←
15:03:17 <gavinc> 2012.07.25
Gavin Carothers: 2012.07.25 ←
15:03:18 <sandro> https://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/
Sandro Hawke: https://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/panel/ ←
15:03:21 <AlexHall> zakim, aabb is me
Alex Hall: zakim, aabb is me ←
15:03:21 <Zakim> +AlexHall; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +AlexHall; got it ←
15:03:55 <Zakim> +[OpenLink]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[OpenLink] ←
15:04:02 <MacTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me ←
15:04:02 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:04:04 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:04:04 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:04:18 <Zakim> +PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: +PatH ←
15:04:20 <pfps> gregg: 11 July minutes are OK, except that they don't identify markus
Gregg Kellogg: 11 July minutes are OK, except that they don't identify markus ←
15:04:35 <pfps> gregg: I'll try to fix them up
Gregg Kellogg: I'll try to fix them up ←
15:04:43 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-07-25
Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-07-25 ←
15:05:19 <zwu2> zakim, code?
15:05:19 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), zwu2 ←
15:05:41 <pfps> Both minutes appear to be OK to me.
Both minutes appear to be OK to me. ←
15:05:53 <Zakim> + +1.707.318.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.707.318.aacc ←
15:06:07 <cgreer> zakim, aacc is me
Charles Greer: zakim, aacc is me ←
15:06:07 <Zakim> +cgreer; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +cgreer; got it ←
15:06:27 <Zakim> +??P28
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28 ←
15:06:31 <manu> zakim, I am ??P28
Manu Sporny: zakim, I am ??P28 ←
15:06:31 <Zakim> +manu; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +manu; got it ←
15:06:37 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:06:41 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-07-25-v1.html#line0097
Sandro Hawke: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-07-25-v1.html#line0097 ←
15:06:48 <pfps> david: is there a proposal from the straw poll on inverse in Turtle?
David Wood: is there a proposal from the straw poll on inverse in Turtle? ←
15:06:54 <pfps> gavin: no, and no action
Gavin Carothers: no, and no action ←
15:07:16 <pfps> david: will you take an action?
David Wood: will you take an action? ←
15:07:23 <pfps> gavin: OK
Gavin Carothers: OK ←
15:08:11 <Zakim> + +1.650.265.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.650.265.aadd ←
15:08:14 <davidwood> Action: Gavinc to create a proposal for inverse property syntax in Turtle
ACTION: Gavinc to create a proposal for inverse property syntax in Turtle ←
15:08:14 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Gavinc
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - Gavinc ←
15:08:23 <zwu2> zakim, +1.650.265.aadd is me
Zhe Wu: zakim, +1.650.265.aadd is me ←
15:08:23 <Zakim> +zwu2; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +zwu2; got it ←
15:08:29 <zwu2> zakim, mute me
15:08:29 <Zakim> zwu2 should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: zwu2 should now be muted ←
15:08:36 <davidwood> Action: Gavin to create a proposal for inverse property syntax in Turtle
ACTION: Gavin to create a proposal for inverse property syntax in Turtle ←
15:08:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-180 - Create a proposal for inverse property syntax in Turtle [on Gavin Carothers - due 2012-08-15].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-180 - Create a proposal for inverse property syntax in Turtle [on Gavin Carothers - due 2012-08-15]. ←
15:09:48 <PatH> I'll have a peppermlnt, thanks.
Patrick Hayes: I'll have a peppermlnt, thanks. ←
15:10:23 <gavinc> Scribe problem: the name 'mlnt' does not match any of the 52 active names.
Gavin Carothers: Scribe problem: the name 'mlnt' does not match any of the 52 active names. ←
15:11:16 <ivan> zakim, mute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me ←
15:11:16 <Zakim> Ivan was already muted, ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan was already muted, ivan ←
15:11:44 <gkellogg> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-07-11
Gregg Kellogg: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-07-11 ←
15:11:49 <PatH> sounds like the olympics.
Patrick Hayes: sounds like the olympics. ←
15:12:45 <pfps> Now 11 July minutes look fine.
Now 11 July minutes look fine. ←
15:13:02 <pfps> david: Any problems with 11 July minutes?
David Wood: Any problems with 11 July minutes? ←
15:13:21 <pfps> 25 July minutes do not call out the straw pool
25 July minutes do not call out the straw pool ←
15:13:35 <gavinc> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-07-25#line0099
Gavin Carothers: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-07-25#line0099 ←
15:13:35 <pfps> sandro: you can use the line links
Sandro Hawke: you can use the line links ←
15:13:51 <sandro> eg http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-07-25#line0097
Sandro Hawke: eg http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/meeting/2012-07-25#line0097 ←
15:13:59 <pfps> Proposed: accept minutes for 11 and 25 July
PROPOSED: accept minutes for 11 and 25 July ←
15:15:18 <sandro> resolved: accept minutes for 11 and 25 July
RESOLVED: accept minutes for 11 and 25 July ←
15:14:13 <pfps> Subtopic: Action item review
15:14:24 <pfps> david: my action is done, close?
David Wood: my action is done, close? ←
15:14:25 <sandro> +1
Sandro Hawke: +1 ←
15:14:26 <pfps> OK
OK ←
15:14:36 <pfps> Close action 177
Close ACTION-177 ←
15:14:43 <mlnt> Zakim, what's the code?
Markus Lanthaler: Zakim, what's the code? ←
15:14:43 <Zakim> the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), mlnt
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), mlnt ←
15:15:53 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/open ←
15:15:54 <sandro> action-177?
15:15:54 <trackbot> ACTION-177 -- David Wood to create blog post on swig blog for Turtle LC -- due 2012-07-18 -- CLOSED
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-177 -- David Wood to create blog post on swig blog for Turtle LC -- due 2012-07-18 -- CLOSED ←
15:15:54 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/177
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/177 ←
15:16:39 <pfps> pat: I claim success on action 178!
Patrick Hayes: I claim success on ACTION-178! ←
15:16:40 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/178
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/track/actions/178 ←
15:17:16 <ivan> Pat's mail on the provenance issue: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Aug/0014.html
Ivan Herman: Pat's mail on the provenance issue: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-wg/2012Aug/0014.html ←
15:17:19 <pfps> pat: I'll fix up the action status and include the email link.
Patrick Hayes: I'll fix up the action status and include the email link. ←
15:17:44 <Zakim> +??P35
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P35 ←
15:17:51 <sandro> https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/users/my
Sandro Hawke: https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/users/my ←
15:18:26 <davidwood> Zakim, P35 is mlnt
David Wood: Zakim, P35 is mlnt ←
15:18:26 <Zakim> sorry, davidwood, I do not recognize a party named 'P35'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, davidwood, I do not recognize a party named 'P35' ←
15:18:41 <davidwood> Zakim, ??P35 is mlnt
David Wood: Zakim, ??P35 is mlnt ←
15:18:41 <Zakim> +mlnt; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +mlnt; got it ←
15:18:57 <mlnt> thanks david
Markus Lanthaler: thanks david ←
15:19:14 <pfps> Subtopic: next meeting
15:19:29 <pfps> david: 22 Aug, then 5 Sept, then weakly
David Wood: 22 Aug, then 5 Sept, then weekly ←
15:19:42 <pfps> david: 22 Aug will be on named graphs
David Wood: 22 Aug will be on named graphs ←
15:20:06 <pfps> SubTopic: F2F
15:20:11 <AZ> s/weakly/weekly/
15:21:04 <pfps> F2F is at TPAC (29-30 Oct)
F2F is at TPAC (29-30 Oct) ←
15:20:55 <gavinc> Is there still no remote possibility at TPAC?
Gavin Carothers: Is there still no remote possibility at TPAC? ←
15:21:11 <pfps> david: start wiki page on F2F
David Wood: start wiki page on F2F ←
15:21:24 <ivan> Participants should also register on https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2012/
Ivan Herman: Participants should also register on https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2012/ ←
15:21:33 <pfps> Action david: start wiki page for F2F
Action david: start wiki page for F2F ←
15:21:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-181 - Start wiki page for F2F [on David Wood - due 2012-08-15].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-181 - Start wiki page for F2F [on David Wood - due 2012-08-15]. ←
15:22:36 <pfps> david: If you are attending in person please register for TPAC and also pay (separate page)
David Wood: If you are attending in person please register for TPAC and also pay (separate page) ←
15:22:48 <pfps> david: sandro/ivan remote participation?
David Wood: sandro/ivan remote participation? ←
15:23:00 <pfps> sandro: phone bridge via speaker phone and usual machinery
Sandro Hawke: phone bridge via speaker phone and usual machinery ←
15:23:14 <pfps> david: should we have a remote meeting room (US?)
David Wood: should we have a remote meeting room (US?) ←
15:23:23 <pfps> sandro: no one will be at MIT
Sandro Hawke: no one will be at MIT ←
15:23:46 <PatH> In the past, skype with video has been useful.
Patrick Hayes: In the past, skype with video has been useful. ←
15:23:52 <pfps> david: I'll ask on in the wiki page and ask who would like to be in a remote meeting
David Wood: I'll ask on in the wiki page and ask who would like to be in a remote meeting ←
15:24:21 <pfps> arnaud: note that we can't change the meeting time
Arnaud Le Hors: note that we can't change the meeting time ←
15:24:56 <pfps> david: sure, so it'll be very early in the US
David Wood: sure, so it'll be very early in the US ←
15:25:03 <PatH> share the jetlag. Seems kind of socialist to me.
Patrick Hayes: share the jetlag. Seems kind of socialist to me. ←
15:25:32 <pfps> Topic: Provenance LC reviews
15:25:37 <pfps> david: volunteers?
David Wood: volunteers? ←
15:25:52 <pfps> path: I checked some issues, but I don't know whether that it a review
Patrick Hayes: I checked some issues, but I don't know whether that it a review ←
15:26:10 <pfps> david: we owe the PWG a formal review, any volunteers?
David Wood: we owe the PWG a formal review, any volunteers? ←
15:26:29 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:26:37 <pfps> pat: what is a formal review
Patrick Hayes: what is a formal review ←
15:26:49 <pfps> david: at least everything relevant to us, but maybe everything
David Wood: at least everything relevant to us, but maybe everything ←
15:26:58 <pfps> david: anyone can comment
David Wood: anyone can comment ←
15:27:08 <ivan> q-
Ivan Herman: q- ←
15:27:26 <pfps> david: the RDF WG should have a formal response, however
David Wood: the RDF WG should have a formal response, however ←
15:28:14 <pfps> Topic: Turtle LC
15:28:26 <pfps> david: gavin, how did you set up LC tracking
David Wood: gavin, how did you set up LC tracking ←
15:28:39 <pfps> gavin: poorly, as I had problems with connecting
Gavin Carothers: poorly, as I had problems with connecting ←
15:29:08 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
15:29:15 <pfps> david: it is important that *everyone* gets a response, but an entire thread can have a single response, as long as everyone is CC'd
David Wood: it is important that *everyone* gets a response, but an entire thread can have a single response, as long as everyone is CC'd ←
15:29:35 <davidwood> ack ivan
David Wood: ack ivan ←
15:29:39 <pfps> david: any non-editorial issues need to be highlighted so the WG looks at it
David Wood: any non-editorial issues need to be highlighted so the WG looks at it ←
15:29:46 <pfps> gavin: only one so far is inverses
Gavin Carothers: only one so far is inverses ←
15:30:25 <pfps> ivan: when we come to PR we need an overview for all comments, so tracking using W3C resources can help
Ivan Herman: when we come to PR we need an overview for all comments, so tracking using W3C resources can help ←
15:30:47 <pfps> david: I had proposed to use tracker with a special product for Turtle LC
David Wood: I had proposed to use tracker with a special product for Turtle LC ←
15:31:05 <pfps> ivan: OK
Ivan Herman: OK ←
15:31:16 <pfps> ivan: adding inverse properties will likely trigger a second LC
Ivan Herman: adding inverse properties will likely trigger a second LC ←
15:31:31 <manu> q+ to ask about hooking JSON-LD issue tracker up to public-rdf-comments (new topic)
Manu Sporny: q+ to ask about hooking JSON-LD issue tracker up to public-rdf-comments (new topic) ←
15:31:47 <pfps> david: it would be nice if we can get a second LC started before the first LC ends
David Wood: it would be nice if we can get a second LC started before the first LC ends ←
15:32:04 <pfps> ivan: process probably requires second LC start after the first one ends
Ivan Herman: process probably requires second LC start after the first one ends ←
15:32:29 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:32:29 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
15:32:37 <pfps> sandro: do we need to wait? It would be odd, but why would anyone be bothered?
Sandro Hawke: do we need to wait? It would be odd, but why would anyone be bothered? ←
15:32:42 <PatH> +1 sandro
Patrick Hayes: +1 sandro ←
15:33:04 <pfps> macted: if there is another change, then it might trigger a third last call
Ted Thibodeau: if there is another change, then it might trigger a third last call ←
15:33:39 <pfps> gavin: inverses may trigger a lot of comments
Gavin Carothers: inverses may trigger a lot of comments ←
15:33:41 <sandro> (gavin is the person talking other than Ivan, David, and me)
Sandro Hawke: (gavin is the person talking other than Ivan, David, and me) ←
15:34:13 <pfps> david: did anyone ask Dave Beckett, he had an opinion on no changes
David Wood: did anyone ask Dave Beckett, he had an opinion on no changes ←
15:34:35 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
15:34:35 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:35:18 <pfps> gavin: Dave felt that changes should be only for major pain points, evidenced by screaming
Gavin Carothers: Dave felt that changes should be only for major pain points, evidenced by screaming ←
15:35:29 <pfps> sandro: It appears that inverse meets the bar
Sandro Hawke: It appears that inverse meets the bar ←
15:35:38 <SteveH> I'm not convinced it's good idea either FWIW
Steve Harris: I'm not convinced it's good idea either FWIW ←
15:36:32 <pfps> sandro: If people add inverse properties solely to get the effect of inverse Turtle lines then that is good evidence
Sandro Hawke: If people add inverse properties solely to get the effect of inverse Turtle lines then that is good evidence ←
15:36:34 <AndyS> The divergence from SPARQL (Update) is a cost.
Andy Seaborne: The divergence from SPARQL (Update) is a cost. ←
15:36:38 <PatH> And RDFa effectively has inverse and it works fine.
Patrick Hayes: And RDFa effectively has inverse and it works fine. ←
15:37:22 <pfps> gavin: there is no implementation response, and people use inverses even when the syntax does support inverted predicates
Gavin Carothers: there is no implementation response, and people use inverses even when the syntax does support inverted predicates ←
15:37:26 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
15:37:26 <sandro> q?
Sandro Hawke: q? ←
15:37:26 <AndyS> q?
Andy Seaborne: q? ←
15:37:33 <davidwood> ack manu
David Wood: ack manu ←
15:37:33 <Zakim> manu, you wanted to ask about hooking JSON-LD issue tracker up to public-rdf-comments (new topic)
Zakim IRC Bot: manu, you wanted to ask about hooking JSON-LD issue tracker up to public-rdf-comments (new topic) ←
15:38:00 <gavinc> rev is NOT a good example of people using it :P
Gavin Carothers: rev is NOT a good example of people using it :P ←
15:38:07 <davidwood> manu, we will discuss that topic next
David Wood: manu, we will discuss that topic next ←
15:38:12 <manu> Also, the WHATWG /hates/ @rev
Manu Sporny: Also, the WHATWG /hates/ @rev ←
15:38:15 <pfps> ivan: RDFa has inverses, but it is rarely used
Ivan Herman: RDFa has inverses, but it is rarely used ←
15:38:21 <PatH> I use it all the time. Maybe I am wierd.
Patrick Hayes: I use it all the time. Maybe I am wierd. ←
15:38:22 <pfps> ivan: I found it useful in a few cases
Ivan Herman: I found it useful in a few cases ←
15:38:25 <manu> and Digital Bazaar has found that @rev is very useful.
Manu Sporny: and Digital Bazaar has found that @rev is very useful. ←
15:38:46 <pfps> gavin: I can't explain @rev in RDFa
Gavin Carothers: I can't explain @rev in RDFa ←
15:38:51 <davidwood> 3 Round Stones and Callimachus users make great use of @rev
David Wood: 3 Round Stones and Callimachus users make great use of @rev ←
15:38:51 <manu> Their reason is that "regular authors" don't understand what @rev does...
Manu Sporny: Their reason is that "regular authors" don't understand what @rev does... ←
15:38:55 <manu> (which is true)
Manu Sporny: (which is true) ←
15:39:03 <pfps> ivan: so it's rarely used, and then only by experts
Ivan Herman: so it's rarely used, and then only by experts ←
15:39:17 <manu> also... "regular authors" don't understand... WebGL, Web Audio, Canvas, <i> vs. <em>, etc.
Manu Sporny: also... "regular authors" don't understand... WebGL, Web Audio, Canvas, <i> vs. <em>, etc. ←
15:39:20 <MacTed> "when you want it, you *really* want it..."
Ted Thibodeau: "when you want it, you *really* want it..." ←
15:39:35 <PatH> We have three hard use cases versus a mess of anecdote. Sorry, but thats the way it seems.
Patrick Hayes: We have three hard use cases versus a mess of anecdote. Sorry, but thats the way it seems. ←
15:40:05 <pfps> gavin: I don't see any examples of reverse in N3 or Manchester
Gavin Carothers: I don't see any examples of reverse in N3 or Manchester ←
15:40:32 <SteveH> it's sugar, so there's no situation where you can /need/ it
Steve Harris: it's sugar, so there's no situation where you can /need/ it ←
15:40:39 <SteveH> though it may make your text look neater
Steve Harris: though it may make your text look neater ←
15:41:19 <AndyS> :x^:p is [:p :x] and is in the subject or object position.
Andy Seaborne: :x^:p is [:p :x] and is in the subject or object position. ←
15:42:18 <pfps> david: syntactic sugar for reverse can be essential if you can't write them the wright way around
David Wood: syntactic sugar for reverse can be essential if you can't write them the wright way around ←
15:42:28 <PatH> lol
Patrick Hayes: lol ←
15:42:48 <pfps> steveh: you can always (in Turtle) flip things around
Steve Harris: you can always (in Turtle) flip things around ←
15:43:05 <pfps> david: you can't always do this if you don't control the data
David Wood: you can't always do this if you don't control the data ←
15:43:19 <AndyS> I note this does not answer the original commenters request nor adopts N3.
Andy Seaborne: I note this does not answer the original commenters request nor adopts N3. ←
15:43:23 <pfps> steveh: I don't see this, but let's discuss off-line
Steve Harris: I don't see this, but let's discuss off-line ←
15:43:38 <pfps> ivan: what's the route to the sea
Ivan Herman: what's the route to the sea ←
15:43:54 <pfps> david: waiting for gavin's proposal
David Wood: waiting for gavin's proposal ←
15:43:58 <PatH> downhill, usually.
Patrick Hayes: downhill, usually. ←
15:44:16 <pfps> andy: adding reverse doesn't answer the original comment
Andy Seaborne: adding reverse doesn't answer the original comment ←
15:44:26 <pfps> david: let's await gavin's proposal
David Wood: let's await gavin's proposal ←
15:44:39 <AndyS> See "Paths" in http://www.w3.org/TeamSubmission/n3/
Andy Seaborne: See "Paths" in http://www.w3.org/TeamSubmission/n3/ ←
15:44:51 <gavinc> WG said ^, TimBL said is .. of
Gavin Carothers: WG said ^, TimBL said is .. of ←
15:45:18 <pfps> ivan: it is the WG's responsibility to decide what to do
Ivan Herman: it is the WG's responsibility to decide what to do ←
15:45:25 <sandro> echo ":a is :b of :c." | python swap/cwm.py -quiet
Sandro Hawke: echo ":a is :b of :c." | python swap/cwm.py -quiet ←
15:45:25 <sandro> @prefix : <#> .
Sandro Hawke: @prefix : <#> . ←
15:45:25 <sandro>
15:45:25 <sandro> :c :b :a .
Sandro Hawke: :c :b :a . ←
15:45:45 <davidwood> http://www.w3.org/TeamSubmission/n3/#path
David Wood: http://www.w3.org/TeamSubmission/n3/#path ←
15:45:50 <pfps> andy: N3 has something different - paths
Andy Seaborne: N3 has something different - paths ←
15:46:07 <pfps> sandro: caret is different from ... is ... of
Sandro Hawke: caret is different from ... is ... of ←
15:46:43 <gavinc> Don't need @ "If no @keywords directive is given, qualified names all have colons, and unquoted alphanumerics are all keywords. Only the keywords is, of, and a may be used naked."
Gavin Carothers: Don't need @ "If no @keywords directive is given, qualified names all have colons, and unquoted alphanumerics are all keywords. Only the keywords is, of, and a may be used naked." ←
15:46:50 <pfps> david: andy, does Timbl want both bang and caret?
David Wood: andy, does Timbl want both bang and caret? ←
15:47:10 <pfps> andy: don't know, I believe that it is is/of
Andy Seaborne: don't know, I believe that it is is/of ←
15:47:18 <pfps> gavin: the WG didn't like is/of
Gavin Carothers: the WG didn't like is/of ←
15:47:40 <pfps> sandro: caret is very close to is/of where it can occur
Sandro Hawke: caret is very close to is/of where it can occur ←
15:47:52 <pfps> andy: yes
Andy Seaborne: yes ←
15:47:59 <PatH> So it has come to this, exploding carrots.
Patrick Hayes: So it has come to this, exploding carrots. ←
15:49:00 <pfps> gavin: no implementation experience, even N3 is different
Gavin Carothers: no implementation experience, even N3 is different ←
15:49:27 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:49:27 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should no longer be muted ←
15:49:51 <pfps> andy: is/of has a NL flavour, which caret doesn't, so there is a big difference
Andy Seaborne: is/of has a NL flavour, which caret doesn't, so there is a big difference ←
15:50:21 <pfps> sandro: the WG didn't like an NL approach
Sandro Hawke: the WG didn't like an NL approach ←
15:51:03 <gavinc> "The reverse traversal, x^p means [ p x ] . For either forward or backward traversal, p is a property, and x can be a whole path with both ! and ^ in it."
Gavin Carothers: "The reverse traversal, x^p means [ p x ] . For either forward or backward traversal, p is a property, and x can be a whole path with both ! and ^ in it." ←
15:51:21 <AndyS> :x^:p!:q :prop 123 .
Andy Seaborne: :x^:p!:q :prop 123 . ←
15:51:46 <pfps> andy: [N3 is much more complex]
Andy Seaborne: [N3 is much more complex] ←
15:52:19 <pfps> ivan: our caret is part of N3 reverse traversal
Ivan Herman: our caret is part of N3 reverse traversal ←
15:52:23 <gavinc> "I would like to formalize the request I have made at intervals to include the is ... of syntax as in N3 in Turtle."
Gavin Carothers: "I would like to formalize the request I have made at intervals to include the is ... of syntax as in N3 in Turtle." ←
15:53:03 <pfps> sandro: I would like to respond that caret does something similar to SPARQL
Sandro Hawke: I would like to respond that caret does something similar to SPARQL ←
15:53:26 <pfps> gavin: can we first respond directly to the commenter to see if our solution is acceptable
Gavin Carothers: can we first respond directly to the commenter to see if our solution is acceptable ←
15:54:10 <pfps> david: there are two different solutions here
David Wood: there are two different solutions here ←
15:54:27 <PatH> My understanding is that none of these syntaxes actually *create* the inverse property, they are all syntactic ways to indicate a p b while writing some thing with the a and b in the reverse order.
Patrick Hayes: My understanding is that none of these syntaxes actually *create* the inverse property, they are all syntactic ways to indicate a p b while writing some thing with the a and b in the reverse order. ←
15:54:49 <PatH> DO I have that wrong?
Patrick Hayes: DO I have that wrong? ←
15:55:00 <AndyS> yes
Andy Seaborne: yes ←
15:55:02 <PatH> OK, ta.
Patrick Hayes: OK, ta. ←
15:55:21 <pfps> sandro: they are both syntactic sugar and neither creates a new property
Sandro Hawke: they are both syntactic sugar and neither creates a new property ←
15:55:50 <AndyS> :a ^:p :b .
Andy Seaborne: :a ^:p :b . ←
15:55:56 <AndyS> :b :p :a .
Andy Seaborne: :b :p :a . ←
15:56:26 <pfps> andy: which means that Turtle is further from the triples
Andy Seaborne: which means that Turtle is further from the triples ←
15:56:49 <PatH> That seems like an argument against any kind of parsing at all.
Patrick Hayes: That seems like an argument against any kind of parsing at all. ←
15:56:55 <pfps> gavin: there is no way to regenerate the carets
Gavin Carothers: there is no way to regenerate the carets ←
15:57:19 <SteveH> the store could tag triples that were inverse, but lets not go there
Steve Harris: the store could tag triples that were inverse, but lets not go there ←
15:57:33 <PatH> indeed.
Patrick Hayes: indeed. ←
15:57:37 <Zakim> +ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: +ericP ←
15:57:44 <zwu2> no tagging please
15:58:04 <davidwood> q?
David Wood: q? ←
15:58:18 <pfps> david: what to tell Gavin?
David Wood: what to tell Gavin? ←
15:59:07 <pfps> ivan: let's tell Tim that the NL proposal won't fly; that we are considering using caret, which clashes with N3
Ivan Herman: let's tell Tim that the NL proposal won't fly; that we are considering using caret, which clashes with N3 ←
15:59:18 <cygri> +1 to ivan's proposal
Richard Cyganiak: +1 to ivan's proposal ←
16:00:41 <pfps> david: so let's wait for a proposal until we get information back from Tim
David Wood: so let's wait for a proposal until we get information back from Tim ←
16:00:48 <pfps> david: gavin, can you respond to Tim
David Wood: gavin, can you respond to Tim ←
16:00:56 <pfps> gavin: OK
Gavin Carothers: OK ←
16:01:07 <pfps> Topic: JSON LD comment
16:01:26 <pfps> david: can we hook up the Jason LD tracker to rdf comments?
David Wood: can we hook up the Jason LD tracker to rdf comments? ←
16:02:26 <pfps> gregg: it should be possible using some automated filter
Gregg Kellogg: it should be possible using some automated filter ←
16:02:56 <pfps> gregg: we are using git-hub currently
Gregg Kellogg: we are using git-hub currently ←
16:03:22 <ivan> zakim, mute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me ←
16:03:22 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
16:03:40 <pfps> sandro: will this push all JSON-LD emails into the WG mailing list
Sandro Hawke: will this push all JSON-LD emails into the WG mailing list ←
16:03:54 <pfps> gregg: no, we'll have a filter in the middle
Gregg Kellogg: no, we'll have a filter in the middle ←
16:04:47 <pfps> gregg: right now comments are supposed to go to rdf-comments, but people can directly comment on the issues in the tracker
Gregg Kellogg: right now comments are supposed to go to rdf-comments, but people can directly comment on the issues in the tracker ←
16:05:10 <pfps> sandro: a manual approach would be to just tell posters to also send to rdf-comments
Sandro Hawke: a manual approach would be to just tell posters to also send to rdf-comments ←
16:05:56 <gavinc> No, it doesn't work if it goes via a mailing list
Gavin Carothers: No, it doesn't work if it goes via a mailing list ←
16:06:04 <mlnt> you have to have a GitHub account to be able to reply by mail
Markus Lanthaler: you have to have a GitHub account to be able to reply by mail ←
16:06:14 <pfps> gregg: we would have to test the various situations
Gregg Kellogg: we would have to test the various situations ←
16:06:37 <gavinc> do we have an -archive for the RDF-WG?
Gavin Carothers: do we have an -archive for the RDF-WG? ←
16:07:06 <pfps> sandro: the W3C process is that the everything ends up on the email list
Sandro Hawke: the W3C process is that the everything ends up on the email list ←
16:07:23 <Zakim> -zwu2
Zakim IRC Bot: -zwu2 ←
16:07:26 <sandro> sandro: I'd suggest once a week summarizing the github activity to public-rdf-comments
Sandro Hawke: I'd suggest once a week summarizing the github activity to public-rdf-comments [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:08:31 <pfps> manu: we could do a summary, but an automated link might be closer and better
Manu Sporny: we could do a summary, but an automated link might be closer and better ←
16:09:01 <PatH> JSON really makes things so very simple. I love it.
Patrick Hayes: JSON really makes things so very simple. I love it. ←
16:09:11 <pfps> sandro: if you need to follow the JSON-LD stuff you really need to be on github, so a summary might be best
Sandro Hawke: if you need to follow the JSON-LD stuff you really need to be on github, so a summary might be best ←
16:09:16 <gkellogg> +0
Gregg Kellogg: +0 ←
16:09:17 <cygri> -1
Richard Cyganiak: -1 ←
16:09:18 <ivan> -1
Ivan Herman: -1 ←
16:09:18 <sandro> strawpoll: +1 if you want the mailing lsits bridged -1 if not
STRAWPOLL: +1 if you want the mailing lsits bridged -1 if not ←
16:09:18 <manu> +1 to have it reflected
Manu Sporny: +1 to have it reflected ←
16:09:20 <davidwood> +0
David Wood: +0 ←
16:09:21 <gavinc> -0.1 to more github emails
Gavin Carothers: -0.1 to more github emails ←
16:09:23 <mlnt> +1
Markus Lanthaler: +1 ←
16:09:25 <AndyS> 0
Andy Seaborne: 0 ←
16:09:29 <SteveH> -1
Steve Harris: -1 ←
16:09:38 <ivan> to be clear: it may be good, but it leads to too much confusions
Ivan Herman: to be clear: it may be good, but it leads to too much confusions ←
16:09:59 <pfps> gregg: OK, we'll do the summary method
Gregg Kellogg: OK, we'll do the summary method ←
16:10:39 <pfps> sandro: the -comments list needs to get anything that is non-editorial
Sandro Hawke: the -comments list needs to get anything that is non-editorial ←
16:11:04 <pfps> gregg: OK
Gregg Kellogg: OK ←
16:11:12 <sandro> sandro: excellent
Sandro Hawke: excellent [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
16:11:16 <pfps> Topic: AOB
16:11:29 <pfps> david: done
David Wood: done ←
16:12:00 <pfps> david: 22 Aug, "Return to Naton Place"
David Wood: 22 Aug, "Return to Naton Place" ←
16:12:18 <pfps> gavin: agenda request, n-triples
Gavin Carothers: agenda request, n-triples ←
16:12:38 <ivan> zakim, unmute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute me ←
16:12:38 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should no longer be muted ←
16:12:43 <pfps> rrsagent, create minutes
rrsagent, create minutes ←
16:12:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/08-rdf-wg-minutes.html pfps
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/08-rdf-wg-minutes.html pfps ←
16:13:12 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
16:13:17 <Zakim> -cgreer
Zakim IRC Bot: -cgreer ←
16:13:18 <Zakim> -sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -sandro ←
16:13:18 <Zakim> -PatH
Zakim IRC Bot: -PatH ←
16:13:18 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
16:13:19 <Zakim> -SteveH
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveH ←
16:13:19 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
16:13:19 <Zakim> -David
Zakim IRC Bot: -David ←
16:13:21 <Zakim> -ericP
Zakim IRC Bot: -ericP ←
16:13:24 <Zakim> -AlexHall
Zakim IRC Bot: -AlexHall ←
16:13:25 <Zakim> -mlnt
Zakim IRC Bot: -mlnt ←
16:13:28 <Zakim> -gkellogg
Zakim IRC Bot: -gkellogg ←
16:13:30 <Zakim> -gavinc
Zakim IRC Bot: -gavinc ←
16:13:31 <Zakim> -AZ
Zakim IRC Bot: -AZ ←
16:13:35 <Zakim> -AndyS
Zakim IRC Bot: -AndyS ←
16:13:37 <Zakim> -cygri
Zakim IRC Bot: -cygri ←
16:13:44 <manu> zakim, who is on the call?
Manu Sporny: zakim, who is on the call? ←
16:13:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IBM], manu
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see [IBM], manu ←
16:13:51 <manu> zakim, disconnect manu
Manu Sporny: zakim, disconnect manu ←
16:13:51 <Zakim> manu is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: manu is being disconnected ←
16:13:53 <Zakim> -manu
Zakim IRC Bot: -manu ←
16:13:55 <AndyS> ADJOURNED
Andy Seaborne: ADJOURNED ←
Formatted by CommonScribe