Paul reviewed all implementation surveys submitted so far. While the numbers look healthy, it was noted that 7 implementation reports were submitted by Southampton. Many implementers are known to have implemented PROV but have not submitted yet. Group members are strongly reminded to submit their reports. The discussion focused on interoperability pairs. It is important to identify which application one exports provenance to or one imports provenance from. Some generic services such as the provenance validator are hopefully good candidates for interoperability with other applications. Simon and Tom agreed to test their implementations against the validator.
the drafted response were approved. Reviewers will be contacted by Paul with the Group responses. Outstanding issues will be tackled in the coming week.
As the editor's draft was just released, it was agreed that reviewers have till Wednesday to complete their review.
All reviewers have submitted their report. The editors will produced a revised version for the next teleconference (or the following one) and vote for release will then take place.
Stephan updated the group on recent changes made by editors. He is going to summarise these by email, on the tracker. We then discussed the namespace convention to adopted. The ideal is to align with the conventions we have adapted for the ontology, while still being compatible with the xml approach. Stephan was tasked to come up with a proposal for next teleconference.
15:57:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-irc ←
15:57:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
15:57:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be PROV
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
15:57:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started ←
15:57:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
15:57:13 <trackbot> Date: 17 January 2013
15:57:14 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV
Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
15:57:14 <Zakim> ok, Luc, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started ←
15:57:16 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes
Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt_Tilmes ←
15:57:27 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.01.17
15:57:38 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
15:57:44 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public ←
15:59:00 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.238.059.aaaa ←
15:59:13 <Luc> zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me
Luc Moreau: zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me ←
15:59:14 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc; got it ←
15:59:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
15:59:26 <Zakim> +??P6
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6 ←
15:59:33 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P6 is me
Daniel Garijo: Zakim, ??P6 is me ←
15:59:34 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it ←
15:59:35 <pgroth> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
Paul Groth: Zakim, [IPcaller] is me ←
15:59:35 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pgroth; got it ←
15:59:54 <dgarijo> Luc, if nobody volunteers, I can be the scribe
Daniel Garijo: Luc, if nobody volunteers, I can be the scribe ←
16:00:30 <Luc> it's very kind daniel, first, let's see if we can find somebody else,
Luc Moreau: it's very kind daniel, first, let's see if we can find somebody else, ←
16:00:39 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here? ←
16:00:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see Curt_Tilmes, Luc, pgroth, dgarijo
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Curt_Tilmes, Luc, pgroth, dgarijo ←
16:00:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see zednik, Paolo, dgarijo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, Curt, Luc, TallTed, ivan, trackbot, stain
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see zednik, Paolo, dgarijo, pgroth, Zakim, RRSAgent, Curt, Luc, TallTed, ivan, trackbot, stain ←
16:00:43 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
16:00:54 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
16:00:54 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
16:00:56 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
16:01:00 <Paolo> HI I have done it quite recently but can do it again
Paolo Missier: HI I have done it quite recently but can do it again ←
16:01:02 <Luc> zakim, who is noisy?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is noisy? ←
16:01:02 <Paolo> if needed
Paolo Missier: if needed ←
16:01:03 <Zakim> + +1.315.330.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.315.330.aabb ←
16:01:12 <Zakim> Luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ivan (2%)
Zakim IRC Bot: Luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ivan (2%) ←
16:01:20 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: Provenance WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ - Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.01.17
Ted Thibodeau: TallTed has changed the topic to: Provenance WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ - Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.01.17 ←
16:01:20 <tlebo> zakim, who is on the phone?
Timothy Lebo: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
16:01:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Curt_Tilmes, Luc, pgroth, dgarijo, [IPcaller], Ivan, +1.315.330.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Curt_Tilmes, Luc, pgroth, dgarijo, [IPcaller], Ivan, +1.315.330.aabb ←
16:01:26 <tlebo> zakim, I am aabb
Timothy Lebo: zakim, I am aabb ←
16:01:26 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo; got it ←
16:01:47 <Luc> scribe: tlebo
(Scribe set to Timothy Lebo)
16:02:05 <Luc> zakim, who is noisy?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is noisy? ←
16:02:16 <Zakim> Luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ivan (56%)
Zakim IRC Bot: Luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ivan (56%) ←
16:02:26 <tlebo> (I think this IRC client has dropped me before, so I might need to hand off to someone mid-stream)
(I think this IRC client has dropped me before, so I might need to hand off to someone mid-stream) ←
16:02:33 <pgroth> ivan has the loudest keyboard ever
Paul Groth: ivan has the loudest keyboard ever ←
16:02:37 <ivan> zakim, mute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me ←
16:02:37 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
16:02:42 <ivan> :-(
Ivan Herman: :-( ←
16:02:48 <tlebo> :-)
:-) ←
16:03:19 <Zakim> +??P41
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P41 ←
16:03:24 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2013-01-10
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2013-01-10 ←
16:03:27 <dgarijo> 0 (I wasn't there)
Daniel Garijo: 0 (I wasn't there) ←
16:03:28 <tlebo> proposed: approve minutes
PROPOSED: approve minutes ←
16:03:29 <pgroth> Topic: Admin
16:03:40 <Luc> proposed: to approve last week's minutes
PROPOSED: to approve last week's minutes ←
16:03:41 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
16:03:42 <tlebo> 0 (was not here)
0 (was not here) ←
16:03:48 <Curt> 0 (not present)
Curt Tilmes: 0 (not present) ←
16:03:48 <Paolo> 0 (missed it)
Paolo Missier: 0 (missed it) ←
16:03:49 <dgarijo> 0
Daniel Garijo: 0 ←
16:03:52 <smiles> +1
Simon Miles: +1 ←
16:03:56 <Dong> +1
Trung Huynh: +1 ←
16:03:57 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.a] ←
16:04:11 <Luc> resolved: last week's minutes
RESOLVED: last week's minutes ←
16:04:34 <tlebo> luc: action on Tim for cross referencing.
Luc Moreau: action on Tim for cross referencing. ←
16:04:43 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
16:04:46 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: +Satya_Sahoo ←
16:05:05 <tlebo> tim: I'll look at the cross reference.
Timothy Lebo: I'll look at the cross reference. ←
16:05:06 <Zakim> +[OpenLink]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[OpenLink] ←
16:05:06 <Zakim> + +1.818.731.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.818.731.aacc ←
16:05:12 <TallTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me ←
16:05:12 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TallTed; got it ←
16:05:15 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, mute me ←
16:05:15 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TallTed should now be muted ←
16:05:17 <tlebo> luc: action on himself...
Luc Moreau: action on himself... ←
16:05:26 <tlebo> luc: action on Stephan for namespaces.
Luc Moreau: action on Stephan for namespaces. ←
16:05:40 <tlebo> zednik: have looked at identifiers
Stephan Zednik: have looked at identifiers ←
16:06:05 <tlebo> pgroth: I've done all actions on me.
Paul Groth: I've done all actions on me. ←
16:06:22 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
16:06:42 <Luc> topic: Implementations
Summary: Paul reviewed all implementation surveys submitted so far. While the numbers look healthy, it was noted that 7 implementation reports were submitted by Southampton. Many implementers are known to have implemented PROV but have not submitted yet. Group members are strongly reminded to submit their reports. The discussion focused on interoperability pairs. It is important to identify which application one exports provenance to or one imports provenance from. Some generic services such as the provenance validator are hopefully good candidates for interoperability with other applications. Simon and Tom agreed to test their implementations against the validator.
<LUC>Summary: Paul reviewed all implementation surveys submitted so far. While the numbers look healthy, it was noted that 7 implementation reports were submitted by Southampton. Many implementers are known to have implemented PROV but have not submitted yet. Group members are strongly reminded to submit their reports. The discussion focused on interoperability pairs. It is important to identify which application one exports provenance to or one imports provenance from. Some generic services such as the provenance validator are hopefully good candidates for interoperability with other applications. Simon and Tom agreed to test their implementations against the validator.
16:06:55 <tlebo> luc: paul went through surveys recently.
Luc Moreau: paul went through surveys recently. ←
16:07:01 <pgroth> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2013Jan/0073.html
Paul Groth: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2013Jan/0073.html ←
16:07:02 <dgarijo> I've added all the remaining implementations that I had added in the wiki. Some of them today
Daniel Garijo: I've added all the remaining implementations that I had added in the wiki. Some of them today ←
16:07:09 <tlebo> pgroth: announced it via email
Paul Groth: announced it via email ←
16:07:32 <tlebo> ... reports from 9 organizations
... reports from 9 organizations ←
16:07:58 <tlebo> ... southampton has 7 implementations.
... southampton has 7 implementations. ←
16:08:01 <Zakim> +Ruben
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ruben ←
16:08:13 <TomDN> Zakim, +Ruben is me
Tom De Nies: Zakim, +Ruben is me ←
16:08:13 <Zakim> sorry, TomDN, I do not recognize a party named '+Ruben'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, TomDN, I do not recognize a party named '+Ruben' ←
16:08:14 <tlebo> ... provo is good track; all constructs supported by 2 sep implementations.
... provo is good track; all constructs supported by 2 sep implementations. ←
16:08:21 <TomDN> Zakim, Ruben is me
Tom De Nies: Zakim, Ruben is me ←
16:08:21 <Zakim> +TomDN; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +TomDN; got it ←
16:08:33 <tlebo> ... provo needs a pair of implmeentations to exchange.
... provo needs a pair of implmeentations to exchange. ←
16:08:39 <TomDN> Zakim, SamCoppens is with TomDN
Tom De Nies: Zakim, SamCoppens is with TomDN ←
16:08:39 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens; got it ←
16:08:44 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me
Tom De Nies: Zakim, mute me ←
16:08:44 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should now be muted ←
16:08:55 <tlebo> ... it's easy to hit that min by having SH and Kings to exchange prov.
... it's easy to hit that min by having SH and Kings to exchange prov. ←
16:08:58 <GK_> Zakim, ??p13 is me
Graham Klyne: Zakim, ??p13 is me ←
16:08:58 <Zakim> +GK_; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +GK_; got it ←
16:09:11 <tlebo> ... for prov-n it is less satisfying. only 2 orgs: SH and weblab.
... for prov-n it is less satisfying. only 2 orgs: SH and weblab. ←
16:09:22 <tlebo> ... tom and sam have prov-n implementations.
... tom and sam have prov-n implementations. ←
16:09:32 <tlebo> ... but do weblab actually support it?
... but do weblab actually support it? ←
16:09:42 <tlebo> ... they say openRDF sesame as the library (implies prov-o)
... they say openRDF sesame as the library (implies prov-o) ←
16:09:50 <Paolo> I am going to add implementation with prov-n support
Paolo Missier: I am going to add implementation with prov-n support ←
16:09:52 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
16:09:55 <tlebo> ... need to rely on tom/sam implementation
... need to rely on tom/sam implementation ←
16:09:55 <Paolo> (applications)
Paolo Missier: (applications) ←
16:10:13 <tlebo> ... constraints: luc's implementation, but we need one more impl.
... constraints: luc's implementation, but we need one more impl. ←
16:10:31 <pgroth> it's a good thing!
Paul Groth: it's a good thing! ←
16:10:44 <tlebo> luc: # implementations on southampton, some on different languages.
Luc Moreau: # implementations on southampton, some on different languages. ←
16:11:00 <tlebo> ... we can demonstrate language independence if not org independence.
... we can demonstrate language independence if not org independence. ←
16:11:15 <TomDN> Zakim, unmute me
Tom De Nies: Zakim, unmute me ←
16:11:15 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should no longer be muted ←
16:11:18 <tlebo> ... TomDN implementing? isn't he using the provtoolbox?
... TomDN implementing? isn't he using the provtoolbox? ←
16:11:46 <Paolo> q+
Paolo Missier: q+ ←
16:11:50 <tlebo> TomDN: not really using the toolbox.
Tom De Nies: not really using the toolbox. ←
16:12:09 <pgroth> ack Luc
Paul Groth: ack Luc ←
16:12:15 <pgroth> ace paolo
Paul Groth: ace paolo ←
16:12:18 <pgroth> ack paolo
Paul Groth: ack paolo ←
16:12:27 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me
Tom De Nies: Zakim, mute me ←
16:12:27 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should now be muted ←
16:12:31 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
16:12:35 <tlebo> Paolo: Tom's note, if I produce prov-n w/o provtoolbox then it counts as a new implementation.
Paolo Missier: Tom's note, if I produce prov-n w/o provtoolbox then it counts as a new implementation. ←
16:12:44 <pgroth> ack luc
Paul Groth: ack luc ←
16:13:02 <tlebo> luc: ideally, we want full independence.
Luc Moreau: ideally, we want full independence. ←
16:13:13 <tlebo> ... but we made the case that prov-n is aimed at human consumption.
... but we made the case that prov-n is aimed at human consumption. ←
16:13:19 <tlebo> ... so no need for interoperability.
... so no need for interoperability. ←
16:13:46 <TomDN> Zakim, unmute me
Tom De Nies: Zakim, unmute me ←
16:13:46 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should no longer be muted ←
16:13:49 <tlebo> pgroth: for prov-n, does TomDN consume prov info as prov-n?
Paul Groth: for prov-n, does TomDN consume prov info as prov-n? ←
16:13:50 <Luc> prov-dm contains examples of prov-dm, consumable by prov toolbox. So it's a pair!
Luc Moreau: prov-dm contains examples of prov-dm, consumable by prov toolbox. So it's a pair! ←
16:14:01 <Luc> prov-dm contains examples of PROV-N, consumable by prov toolbox. So it's a pair!
Luc Moreau: prov-dm contains examples of PROV-N, consumable by prov toolbox. So it's a pair! ←
16:14:19 <tlebo> TomDN: I read it == I evaluate. It generates it == write.
Tom De Nies: I read it == I evaluate. It generates it == write. ←
16:14:23 <GK> A precedent we might look at is the "human" syntax(es) for OWL - what do they do?
Graham Klyne: A precedent we might look at is the "human" syntax(es) for OWL - what do they do? ←
16:14:39 <Luc> @TomDN, can you validate your prov-n with my validator?
Luc Moreau: @TomDN, can you validate your prov-n with my validator? ←
16:15:12 <tlebo> TomDN: I can produce a file from my tool as prov-n.
Tom De Nies: I can produce a file from my tool as prov-n. ←
16:15:18 <Luc> @TomDN, can you paste your prov-n into http://openprovenance.org/prov/validator.html
Luc Moreau: @TomDN, can you paste your prov-n into http://openprovenance.org/prov/validator.html ←
16:15:25 <tlebo> pgroth: we want to give TomDN's prov-n to luc's validator.
Paul Groth: we want to give TomDN's prov-n to luc's validator. ←
16:15:33 <tlebo> ... then we have a pair.
... then we have a pair. ←
16:15:41 <Luc> or http://openprovenance.org/prov/translator.html
Luc Moreau: or http://openprovenance.org/prov/translator.html ←
16:16:00 <tlebo> pgroth: tom doens't use all of the constructs.
Paul Groth: tom doens't use all of the constructs. ←
16:16:05 <tlebo> TomDN: no.
Tom De Nies: no. ←
16:16:11 <tlebo> pgroth: extend to use other constructs?
Paul Groth: extend to use other constructs? ←
16:16:14 <tlebo> TomDN: not easy.
Tom De Nies: not easy. ←
16:16:27 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
16:16:32 <pgroth> ack Luc
Paul Groth: ack Luc ←
16:16:47 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me
Tom De Nies: Zakim, mute me ←
16:16:47 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should now be muted ←
16:16:58 <tlebo> Luc: prov-dm doc is an example of prov-n generation. so all statements can be validated by toolbox.
Luc Moreau: prov-dm doc is an example of prov-n generation. so all statements can be validated by toolbox. ←
16:17:02 <tlebo> .. thus an interop pair
.. thus an interop pair ←
16:17:27 <tlebo> pgroth: we need to add it to the quesionnaire
Paul Groth: we need to add it to the quesionnaire ←
16:17:33 <TomDN> (I will provide some rationale on my questionaire answers to explain the read/write answers
Tom De Nies: (I will provide some rationale on my questionaire answers to explain the read/write answers ←
16:17:48 <tlebo> pgroth: we should do it as the WG
Paul Groth: we should do it as the WG ←
16:17:49 <GK> q+ to suggest looking in to how http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/REC-owl2-syntax-20121211/ was handled
Graham Klyne: q+ to suggest looking in to how http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/REC-owl2-syntax-20121211/ was handled ←
16:18:01 <Zakim> -GK_
Zakim IRC Bot: -GK_ ←
16:18:06 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aa]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller.aa] ←
16:18:07 <GK> Losrt my client
Graham Klyne: Losrt my client ←
16:18:08 <tlebo> pgroth: we seem to have coverage on prov-n (with these steps)
Paul Groth: we seem to have coverage on prov-n (with these steps) ←
16:18:23 <GK> Sorry lost connection
Graham Klyne: Sorry lost connection ←
16:18:23 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:18:37 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
16:18:46 <pgroth> q+ to say we need a pair for prov-o
Paul Groth: q+ to say we need a pair for prov-o ←
16:18:46 <GK> zakim, ??p13 is me
Graham Klyne: zakim, ??p13 is me ←
16:18:47 <Zakim> +GK; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it ←
16:18:51 <tlebo> Luc: please submit the implementation reports.
Luc Moreau: please submit the implementation reports. ←
16:18:58 <stain> Zakim, ??P13 is me
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, ??P13 is me ←
16:18:58 <Zakim> I already had ??P13 as GK, stain
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P13 as GK, stain ←
16:19:08 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.aa]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.aa] ←
16:19:19 <tlebo> GK: prov-n and interop -- find out what OWL WG did with their functional syntax.
Graham Klyne: prov-n and interop -- find out what OWL WG did with their functional syntax. ←
16:19:25 <tlebo> ... it's similar role.
... it's similar role. ←
16:19:28 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:19:32 <ivan> unmute ivan
Ivan Herman: unmute ivan ←
16:19:34 <Luc> ack gk
Luc Moreau: ack gk ←
16:19:34 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to suggest looking in to how http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/REC-owl2-syntax-20121211/ was handled
Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to suggest looking in to how http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/REC-owl2-syntax-20121211/ was handled ←
16:19:39 <ivan> zakim, unmute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute me ←
16:19:39 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should no longer be muted ←
16:20:15 <pgroth> i think we have a solution now for prov-n
Paul Groth: i think we have a solution now for prov-n ←
16:20:15 <tlebo> ivan: i don't remember how function syntax was handled. it was just a specification language - not a cand rec requiement to parse it.
Ivan Herman: i don't remember how function syntax was handled. it was just a specification language - not a cand rec requiement to parse it. ←
16:20:16 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:20:38 <tlebo> ... for OWL systems, they needed to exchange RDF/XML. the ONLY one.
... for OWL systems, they needed to exchange RDF/XML. the ONLY one. ←
16:20:39 <GK> That was my guess - I think PROV-N might be presented similarly?
Graham Klyne: That was my guess - I think PROV-N might be presented similarly? ←
16:20:45 <pgroth> Tom's implementation + validator and prov-dm docs + validator
Paul Groth: Tom's implementation + validator and prov-dm docs + validator ←
16:20:45 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:20:48 <Luc> ack pg
Luc Moreau: ack pg ←
16:20:48 <Zakim> pgroth, you wanted to say we need a pair for prov-o
Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, you wanted to say we need a pair for prov-o ←
16:21:03 <tlebo> pgroth: provo coverage is fine, we need some pairs.
Paul Groth: provo coverage is fine, we need some pairs. ←
16:21:09 <Zakim> +??P44
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P44 ←
16:21:15 <tlebo> ... could simon and luc make that pair?
... could simon and luc make that pair? ←
16:21:48 <tlebo> Luc: the service is available online. anyone can paste them in to validator or translator.
Luc Moreau: the service is available online. anyone can paste them in to validator or translator. ←
16:21:52 <tlebo> ... they can just report it.
... they can just report it. ←
16:21:56 <smiles> Luc - Can you give the URL again?
Simon Miles: Luc - Can you give the URL again? ←
16:22:07 <stain> Zakim: ??P44 is me
16:22:11 <stain> Zakim, ??P44 is me
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, ??P44 is me ←
16:22:11 <Zakim> +stain; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +stain; got it ←
16:22:11 <tlebo> pgroth: a pair isn't one directional?
Paul Groth: a pair isn't one directional? ←
16:22:22 <stain> Zakim, ??P44 is also khalidBelhajjame
Stian Soiland-Reyes: Zakim, ??P44 is also khalidBelhajjame ←
16:22:22 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P44 is also khalidBelhajjame', stain
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand '??P44 is also khalidBelhajjame', stain ←
16:22:25 <tlebo> pgroth: simon, dump out provo and validate it?
Paul Groth: simon, dump out provo and validate it? ←
16:22:34 <tlebo> smiles: yes, if it takes turtle
Simon Miles: yes, if it takes turtle ←
16:22:36 <ivan> zakim, mute me
Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me ←
16:22:36 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted ←
16:22:50 <Luc> http://openprovenance.org/prov/validator.html
Luc Moreau: http://openprovenance.org/prov/validator.html ←
16:23:01 <tlebo> Luc: anybody can do that.
Luc Moreau: anybody can do that. ←
16:23:04 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:23:04 <pgroth> constraints
Paul Groth: constraints ←
16:23:04 <GK> I think producer -> consumer (one way) is OK - it shoews two developers read spec and had some common understanding
Graham Klyne: I think producer -> consumer (one way) is OK - it shoews two developers read spec and had some common understanding ←
16:23:11 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
16:23:30 <tlebo> pgroth: constraints. luc did them, pgroth is slowing working them.
Paul Groth: constraints. luc did them, pgroth is slowing working them. ←
16:23:41 <tlebo> ... obviously good to have more than 2
... obviously good to have more than 2 ←
16:23:47 <tlebo> ... or even if other parts of implementations.
... or even if other parts of implementations. ←
16:23:59 <tlebo> ... 47 unit tests away from full coverage.
... 47 unit tests away from full coverage. ←
16:24:16 <tlebo> ... shoiuld be able to do it.
... shoiuld be able to do it. ←
16:24:21 <tlebo> +1 :-)
+1 :-) ←
16:24:35 <tlebo> luc: Paolo was working on partial constriants
Luc Moreau: Paolo was working on partial constriants ←
16:24:44 <Luc> Regrets: jcheney
16:24:53 <TomDN> Does your implementation need to be completely finished by Jan. 31st?
Tom De Nies: Does your implementation need to be completely finished by Jan. 31st? ←
16:24:57 <tlebo> Paolo: jun and I havent' worked on it.
Paolo Missier: jun and I havent' worked on it. ←
16:25:07 <pgroth> @TomDN it's about the report really
Paul Groth: @TomDN it's about the report really ←
16:25:17 <tlebo> Luc: when? by end of month?
Luc Moreau: when? by end of month? ←
16:25:20 <tlebo> Paolo: not by then.
Paolo Missier: not by then. ←
16:25:26 <pgroth> +q to ask about stardog
Paul Groth: +q to ask about stardog ←
16:25:29 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:25:31 <TomDN> @pgroth, thanks, that's what i thought
Tom De Nies: @pgroth, thanks, that's what i thought ←
16:25:55 <tlebo> pgroth: we knwo there are implementations out there than what is reported.
Paul Groth: we knwo there are implementations out there than what is reported. ←
16:26:04 <tlebo> ... we should all sign up to report implementations.
... we should all sign up to report implementations. ←
16:26:22 <tlebo> ... e.g. stardog is doing it.
... e.g. stardog is doing it. ←
16:26:27 <tlebo> ... approach individually.
... approach individually. ←
16:26:50 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:26:52 <Luc> ack pg
Luc Moreau: ack pg ←
16:26:52 <Zakim> pgroth, you wanted to ask about stardog
Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, you wanted to ask about stardog ←
16:26:54 <tlebo> (I tried to poke the LInkedTV via twitter yesterday -- it's not coming out till Feb)
(I tried to poke the LInkedTV via twitter yesterday -- it's not coming out till Feb) ←
16:27:01 <pgroth> but there's also dbpedia, and qudt, etc
Paul Groth: but there's also dbpedia, and qudt, etc ←
16:27:04 <Luc> topic: Response to public comments
Summary: the drafted response were approved. Reviewers will be contacted by Paul with the Group responses. Outstanding issues will be tackled in the coming week.
<luc>Summary: the drafted response were approved. Reviewers will be contacted by Paul with the Group responses. Outstanding issues will be tackled in the coming week.
16:27:08 <tlebo> zakim, who is making noise?
zakim, who is making noise? ←
16:27:09 <pgroth> simon can you mute
Paul Groth: simon can you mute ←
16:27:12 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicCommentsCR
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ResponsesToPublicCommentsCR ←
16:27:18 <Zakim> tlebo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Luc (83%), ??P41 (28%)
Zakim IRC Bot: tlebo, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Luc (83%), ??P41 (28%) ←
16:27:30 <pgroth> zakim, mute ??P41
Paul Groth: zakim, mute ??P41 ←
16:27:30 <Zakim> ??P41 should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: ??P41 should now be muted ←
16:27:30 <GK> (There's also the possibility of submitting "third party" reports for public implemenbtations)
Graham Klyne: (There's also the possibility of submitting "third party" reports for public implemenbtations) ←
16:27:43 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:27:47 <pgroth> @GK i didn't no that
Paul Groth: @GK i didn't know that ←
16:27:52 <pgroth> s/no/know
16:28:00 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:28:09 <Luc> Proposed: the group endorses the responses to issues 611 and 612
PROPOSED: the group endorses the responses to issues 611 and 612 ←
16:28:14 <TomDN> +1
Tom De Nies: +1 ←
16:28:17 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
16:28:18 <khalidBelhajjame> +1
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←
16:28:18 <tlebo> +1
+1 ←
16:28:19 <satya> +1
Satya Sahoo: +1 ←
16:28:21 <zednik> +1
Stephan Zednik: +1 ←
16:28:23 <stain> +1
Stian Soiland-Reyes: +1 ←
16:28:26 <Dong> +q
Trung Huynh: +q ←
16:28:26 <TallTed> +1
Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←
16:28:27 <GK> @paul - I don't *know* that, but I can't see any reason why now
Graham Klyne: @paul - I don't *know* that, but I can't see any reason why now ←
16:28:34 <SamCoppens> +1
Sam Coppens: +1 ←
16:28:36 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:28:36 <dgarijo> +0 (I haven't reviewed them yet)
Daniel Garijo: +0 (I haven't reviewed them yet) ←
16:28:38 <hook> +1
16:28:39 <smiles> +1 (noting that I sent a suggestion just before this call)
Simon Miles: +1 (noting that I sent a suggestion just before this call) ←
16:28:41 <GK> +0
Graham Klyne: +0 ←
16:28:50 <Paolo> 0 haven't reviewed in detail
Paolo Missier: 0 haven't reviewed in detail ←
16:28:53 <Luc> Resolved: the group endorses the responses to issues 611 and 612
RESOLVED: the group endorses the responses to issues 611 and 612 ←
16:28:54 <Curt> +0 (haven't reviewed)
Curt Tilmes: +0 (haven't reviewed) ←
16:29:04 <stain> @TallTed what happened to McTed over New Year? :)
Stian Soiland-Reyes: @TallTed what happened to McTed over New Year? :) ←
16:29:13 <tlebo> luc: who to respond to reviewers?
Luc Moreau: who to respond to reviewers? ←
16:29:15 <Dong> q-
Trung Huynh: q- ←
16:29:15 <pgroth> sure
Paul Groth: sure ←
16:29:17 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:29:21 <tlebo> Luc: : is it paul?
Luc Moreau: : is it paul? ←
16:29:25 <tlebo> pgroth: I can do that.
Paul Groth: I can do that. ←
16:29:33 <tlebo> ... we had a question about derivation.
... we had a question about derivation. ←
16:29:57 <tlebo> ... wasQUotedFrom, not derivation.
... wasQUotedFrom, not derivation. ←
16:30:08 <dgarijo> I think it was about the name of wasQuotedFrom.
Daniel Garijo: I think it was about the name of wasQuotedFrom. ←
16:30:12 <tlebo> (I think it's the same mix-up that "Tim vs. Stian+Daniel" had.
(I think it's the same mix-up that "Tim vs. Stian+Daniel" had. ←
16:30:13 <stain> it was about the directionality - as I originally complained about it
Stian Soiland-Reyes: it was about the directionality - as I originally complained about it ←
16:30:23 <stain> he suggested hadQuoteFrom
Stian Soiland-Reyes: he suggested hadQuoteFrom ←
16:30:27 <dgarijo> yep
Daniel Garijo: yep ←
16:30:35 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:30:57 <pgroth> action: pgroth to respond to public comments
ACTION: pgroth to respond to public comments ←
16:30:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-162 - Respond to public comments [on Paul Groth - due 2013-01-24].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-162 - Respond to public comments [on Paul Groth - due 2013-01-24]. ←
16:30:58 <Dong> @Luc and Tim: I've just remember that some PROV-O examples might need to be revised in ISSUE-611
Trung Huynh: @Luc and Tim: I've just remember that some PROV-O examples might need to be revised in ISSUE-611 ←
16:31:02 <tlebo> luc: wasquotedFrom, can't recall.
Luc Moreau: wasquotedFrom, can't recall. ←
16:31:17 <TomDN> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-comments/2013Jan/0006.html
Tom De Nies: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-comments/2013Jan/0006.html ←
16:31:29 <stain> I think we need another WG discussion on email about it
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I think we need another WG discussion on email about it ←
16:31:57 <TallTed> stain - just unifying my nick across a few spaces (Twitter, a couple of IRC nets, etc.) ...
Ted Thibodeau: stain - just unifying my nick across a few spaces (Twitter, a couple of IRC nets, etc.) ... ←
16:32:03 <stain> if the term was confusing in the primer.. then it's confusing all over
Stian Soiland-Reyes: if the term was confusing in the primer.. then it's confusing all over ←
16:32:04 <tlebo> q+ to note that we couldn't converge last time on the naming.
q+ to note that we couldn't converge last time on the naming. ←
16:32:15 <Zakim> - +1.818.731.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.818.731.aacc ←
16:32:44 <Zakim> + +1.818.731.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.818.731.aadd ←
16:32:56 <tlebo> ECHO
ECHO ←
16:32:57 <pgroth> echo madness
Paul Groth: echo madness ←
16:33:02 <stain> zakim, who is noisy?
Stian Soiland-Reyes: zakim, who is noisy? ←
16:33:06 <pgroth> simon
Paul Groth: simon ←
16:33:07 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:33:13 <Zakim> stain, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: tlebo (31%)
Zakim IRC Bot: stain, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: tlebo (31%) ←
16:33:14 <pgroth> ack tlebo
Paul Groth: ack tlebo ←
16:33:16 <Zakim> tlebo, you wanted to note that we couldn't converge last time on the naming.
Zakim IRC Bot: tlebo, you wanted to note that we couldn't converge last time on the naming. ←
16:33:38 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
16:34:00 <smiles> @tlebo - Do you have a link to that email conversation?
Simon Miles: @tlebo - Do you have a link to that email conversation? ←
16:34:01 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:34:10 <stain> but this email was from Chuck Norris - which sounds like a native speaker
Stian Soiland-Reyes: but this email was from Chuck Norris - which sounds like a native speaker ←
16:34:11 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:34:15 <tlebo> smiles: I can dig up the ISSUE.
Simon Miles: I can dig up the ISSUE. ←
16:34:17 <stain> MORRIS
Stian Soiland-Reyes: MORRIS ←
16:34:19 <stain> hihi
Stian Soiland-Reyes: hihi ←
16:34:26 <smiles> OK
Simon Miles: OK ←
16:34:26 <dgarijo> @stian:lol
Daniel Garijo: @stian:lol ←
16:34:56 <Zakim> +??P32
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P32 ←
16:35:15 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:35:17 <Paolo> zakim, ??P32 is me
Paolo Missier: zakim, ??P32 is me ←
16:35:17 <Zakim> +Paolo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Paolo; got it ←
16:35:25 <Luc> topic: prov-dictionary
Summary: As the editor's draft was just released, it was agreed that reviewers have till Wednesday to complete their review.
<luc>Summary: As the editor's draft was just released, it was agreed that reviewers have till Wednesday to complete their review.
16:35:27 <tlebo> tlebo: I'll dig through them. thanks for the reminder
Timothy Lebo: I'll dig through them. thanks for the reminder ←
16:35:44 <TomDN> no
Tom De Nies: no ←
16:35:54 <TomDN> Zakim, unmute me
Tom De Nies: Zakim, unmute me ←
16:35:54 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should no longer be muted ←
16:36:03 <tlebo> smiles: https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/352 is the wasQuotedFrom naming discussion
Simon Miles: https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/issues/352 is the wasQuotedFrom naming discussion ←
16:36:13 <Paolo> deadline is 23rd, right?
Paolo Missier: deadline is 23rd, right? ←
16:36:31 <pgroth> fine with me
Paul Groth: fine with me ←
16:36:35 <tlebo> Luc: reviewers should give feedback by next wed.
Luc Moreau: reviewers should give feedback by next wed. ←
16:36:41 <pgroth> paul
Paul Groth: paul ←
16:36:49 <smiles> @tlebo Thanks!
Simon Miles: @tlebo Thanks! ←
16:36:59 <TomDN> Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc, and Paul,
Tom De Nies: Paolo, Stian, James (maybe), Luc, and Paul, ←
16:37:02 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:37:11 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me
Tom De Nies: Zakim, mute me ←
16:37:11 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should now be muted ←
16:37:12 <Luc> topic: prov-aq
Summary: All reviewers have submitted their report. The editors will produced a revised version for the next teleconference (or the following one) and vote for release will then take place.
<luc>Summary: All reviewers have submitted their report. The editors will produced a revised version for the next teleconference (or the following one) and vote for release will then take place.
16:37:38 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:37:41 <tlebo> GK: I've seen 4 reviews in
Graham Klyne: I've seen 4 reviews in ←
16:37:57 <tlebo> pgroth: tim, simon, luc, dong, stian
Paul Groth: tim, simon, luc, dong, stian ←
16:38:18 <tlebo> h!
h! ←
16:38:22 <pgroth> your back
Paul Groth: your back ←
16:38:46 <tlebo> pgroth: all have reviewed.
Paul Groth: all have reviewed. ←
16:38:54 <pgroth> shall i go
Paul Groth: shall i go ←
16:39:08 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
16:39:11 <tlebo> GK: through 1.5 sets of comments.
Graham Klyne: through 1.5 sets of comments. ←
16:39:15 <tlebo> ... most are editorial.
... most are editorial. ←
16:39:25 <tlebo> ... hoping to pick out those that are more than editorial.
... hoping to pick out those that are more than editorial. ←
16:39:42 <pgroth> that's not the main issue
Paul Groth: that's not the main issue ←
16:39:45 <tlebo> ... issue on REST interface vs. simple convention for URI to retrieve prov.
... issue on REST interface vs. simple convention for URI to retrieve prov. ←
16:40:04 <tlebo> pgroth: everyone but stian said doc can go LC
Paul Groth: everyone but stian said doc can go LC ←
16:40:10 <stain> q+
Stian Soiland-Reyes: q+ ←
16:40:17 <tlebo> ... stian has 8-9 blocking issues.
... stian has 8-9 blocking issues. ←
16:40:39 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
16:40:44 <Luc> ack pg
Luc Moreau: ack pg ←
16:40:46 <tlebo> ... we should concentrate on blocking issues from stian.
... we should concentrate on blocking issues from stian. ←
16:40:46 <GK> Ah, I hadn't yet looked at those blocking issues from Stian
Graham Klyne: Ah, I hadn't yet looked at those blocking issues from Stian ←
16:41:07 <tlebo> stain: my issues: it was heavy.
Stian Soiland-Reyes: my issues: it was heavy. ←
16:41:16 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:41:20 <Luc> ack sta
Luc Moreau: ack sta ←
16:41:24 <tlebo> ... as a draft, fine. but not as final technical.
... as a draft, fine. but not as final technical. ←
16:41:25 <stain> @GK sorry about that..
Stian Soiland-Reyes: @GK sorry about that.. ←
16:41:27 <Luc> ack luc
Luc Moreau: ack luc ←
16:41:40 <tlebo> Luc: i'm fine wiht doc released as next WD.
Luc Moreau: i'm fine wiht doc released as next WD. ←
16:41:58 <tlebo> ... I felt that feedback required changes, and so not last call.
... I felt that feedback required changes, and so not last call. ←
16:42:02 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
16:42:04 <tlebo> ... we don't have notion of last call in Note.
... we don't have notion of last call in Note. ←
16:42:09 <tlebo> ... we're abusing that name.
... we're abusing that name. ←
16:42:20 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:42:21 <tlebo> ... as next draft, fine.
... as next draft, fine. ←
16:42:44 <tlebo> pgroth: we should distinguish between release and not wanting to do any more to it.
Paul Groth: we should distinguish between release and not wanting to do any more to it. ←
16:43:08 <tlebo> ... address all comments, release a WD at a minimum. OR when we go PRec with other docs.
... address all comments, release a WD at a minimum. OR when we go PRec with other docs. ←
16:43:17 <tlebo> ... but can we get another iteration?
... but can we get another iteration? ←
16:43:17 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:43:22 <tlebo> ... before PR
... before PR ←
16:43:25 <GK> @paul +1 review/revise as much as possible
Graham Klyne: @paul +1 review/revise as much as possible ←
16:43:32 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:43:32 <tlebo> ... we need two more itnerations on PAQ
... we need two more itnerations on PAQ ←
16:43:55 <tlebo> Luc: we should be pragmatic about Notes and making it too perfect.
Luc Moreau: we should be pragmatic about Notes and making it too perfect. ←
16:44:00 <GK> If the issues are substantive, I don't think they should be "offline"
Graham Klyne: If the issues are substantive, I don't think they should be "offline" ←
16:44:09 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:44:30 <pgroth> @gk i was talking about scheduling
Paul Groth: @gk i was talking about scheduling ←
16:44:44 <GK> @paul Ah, OK.
Graham Klyne: @paul Ah, OK. ←
16:44:46 <tlebo> Luc: do we vote? or do work and editors cycle?
Luc Moreau: do we vote? or do work and editors cycle? ←
16:44:57 <tlebo> pgroth: next week or following for WD.
Paul Groth: next week or following for WD. ←
16:45:01 <Luc> ack pg
Luc Moreau: ack pg ←
16:45:11 <TomDN> (can be synced with dictionary then)
Tom De Nies: (can be synced with dictionary then) ←
16:45:18 <tlebo> ... take off "final" terminology"
... take off "final" terminology" ←
16:45:28 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:45:45 <tlebo> topic: prov-xml
Summary: Stephan updated the group on recent changes made by editors. He is going to summarise these by email, on the tracker. We then discussed the namespace convention to adopted. The ideal is to align with the conventions we have adapted for the ontology, while still being compatible with the xml approach. Stephan was tasked to come up with a proposal for next teleconference.
<luc>Summary: Stephan updated the group on recent changes made by editors. He is going to summarise these by email, on the tracker. We then discussed the namespace convention to adopted. The ideal is to align with the conventions we have adapted for the ontology, while still being compatible with the xml approach. Stephan was tasked to come up with a proposal for next teleconference.
16:46:02 <GK> Next week is likely busy for me. I'll try to complete my pass through the reviews today.
Graham Klyne: Next week is likely busy for me. I'll try to complete my pass through the reviews today. ←
16:46:25 <tlebo> luc: namespace, schema management, etc.
Luc Moreau: namespace, schema management, etc. ←
16:46:44 <tlebo> zednik: some feedback on original note. extended types was confusing with prov:type.
Stephan Zednik: some feedback on original note. extended types was confusing with prov:type. ←
16:46:52 <tlebo> ... made native XML type for those.
... made native XML type for those. ←
16:47:30 <tlebo> ... identifiers: work natively for XML
... identifiers: work natively for XML ←
16:47:33 <tlebo> ... id and idref
... id and idref ←
16:47:40 <tlebo> id uses xsi:id
id uses xsi:id ←
16:47:54 <tlebo> ... base type of idRef -- xml tooling is familiar.
... base type of idRef -- xml tooling is familiar. ←
16:48:12 <tlebo> .. cannot start with numbers, other constraints.
.. cannot start with numbers, other constraints. ←
16:48:24 <tlebo> ... it's native but doesn't work with our examples or URIs.
... it's native but doesn't work with our examples or URIs. ←
16:48:33 <tlebo> ... alternative: anyURI or QNames
... alternative: anyURI or QNames ←
16:48:34 <pgroth> @gk see where you can get and see what needs to be debated
Paul Groth: @gk see where you can get and see what needs to be debated ←
16:48:44 <tlebo> ... not sure which would be better.
... not sure which would be better. ←
16:48:50 <tlebo> ... also xlinks and xpointers.
... also xlinks and xpointers. ←
16:49:06 <GK> @paul - that's my plan - I'm making notes as I go. I'll email you a copy when done.
Graham Klyne: @paul - that's my plan - I'm making notes as I go. I'll email you a copy when done. ←
16:49:13 <pgroth> @gk awesome
Paul Groth: @gk awesome ←
16:49:16 <ivan> q+
Ivan Herman: q+ ←
16:49:23 <tlebo> ... xpointers and xlinks might let us verify references existing.
... xpointers and xlinks might let us verify references existing. ←
16:49:28 <ivan> ack ivan
Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←
16:49:32 <tlebo> ... the group needs to read up on xlinks/xpointers.
... the group needs to read up on xlinks/xpointers. ←
16:49:35 <Luc> ack iv
Luc Moreau: ack iv ←
16:49:46 <tlebo> ivan: how widely is xlink implemented?
Ivan Herman: how widely is xlink implemented? ←
16:50:03 <tlebo> ... do tools really do it? xlink is an unlucky standard.
... do tools really do it? xlink is an unlucky standard. ←
16:50:10 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:50:23 <hook> q+
16:50:32 <tlebo> ... might not be worth adopting, could be more harm than good.
... might not be worth adopting, could be more harm than good. ←
16:50:48 <tlebo> hook: xlinks ISO community uses them to reference external XML traces.
Hook Hua: xlinks ISO community uses them to reference external XML traces. ←
16:50:59 <tlebo> ... in bundles, can reference across bundles.
... in bundles, can reference across bundles. ←
16:51:09 <tlebo> ... but good point on how much it's used.
... but good point on how much it's used. ←
16:51:15 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:51:22 <Luc> ack ho
Luc Moreau: ack ho ←
16:51:31 <tlebo> ... we still need to look into xlinks.
... we still need to look into xlinks. ←
16:51:50 <tlebo> Luc: have your changes surfaced to the WG?
Luc Moreau: have your changes surfaced to the WG? ←
16:52:00 <tlebo> ... some may want to get insight into your changes.
... some may want to get insight into your changes. ←
16:52:20 <tlebo> ... (are you using issue tracker?)
... (are you using issue tracker?) ←
16:52:30 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:52:54 <tlebo> zednik: announced, but did not tag into ISSUE.
Stephan Zednik: announced, but did not tag into ISSUE. ←
16:53:12 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:53:37 <tlebo> zednik: last modeling was valid.
Stephan Zednik: last modeling was valid. ←
16:53:55 <tlebo> Luc: namespace management issue
Luc Moreau: namespace management issue ←
16:54:08 <tlebo> ... the namespace HTML is waiting on it.
... the namespace HTML is waiting on it. ←
16:54:30 <tlebo> zednik: seems like we're misusing xml namesapces.
Stephan Zednik: seems like we're misusing xml namesapces. ←
16:54:49 <tlebo> ... the extension should have a different namespace.
... the extension should have a different namespace. ←
16:54:58 <tlebo> ... including dictionary in new namespace
... including dictionary in new namespace ←
16:55:24 <tlebo> ... stian proposed an organization, but not ideal.
... stian proposed an organization, but not ideal. ←
16:55:37 <tlebo> ... the xml schema should have different namespaces.
... the xml schema should have different namespaces. ←
16:55:58 <TomDN> (didn't we vote on this a few months ago?)
Tom De Nies: (didn't we vote on this a few months ago?) ←
16:56:03 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:56:03 <pgroth> q+
Paul Groth: q+ ←
16:56:18 <Luc> ack pg
Luc Moreau: ack pg ←
16:56:37 <tlebo> pgroth: prov dictionary etc being in different docs doesn't mean it's not in the same thing.
Paul Groth: prov dictionary etc being in different docs doesn't mean it's not in the same thing. ←
16:56:54 <tlebo> ... (they are in same group, it's just broken up to aid understanding).
... (they are in same group, it's just broken up to aid understanding). ←
16:56:58 <Luc> zakim. who is noisy?
Luc Moreau: zakim. who is noisy? ←
16:57:07 <Luc> zakim, who is noisy?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is noisy? ←
16:57:14 <tlebo> pgroth: from practice, developers do not like separate namespaces.
Paul Groth: from practice, developers do not like separate namespaces. ←
16:57:17 <Zakim> Luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (90%)
Zakim IRC Bot: Luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (90%) ←
16:57:30 <tlebo> ... PROV namespace will included in RDFa automatically.
... PROV namespace will included in RDFa 1.1 automatically. ←
16:57:44 <ivan> s/RDFa/RDFa 1.1/
16:57:57 <tlebo> Luc: is nice to have one ns
Luc Moreau: is nice to have one ns ←
16:58:24 <tlebo> Luc: a prov-xml dictionary namespace?
Luc Moreau: a prov-xml dictionary namespace? ←
16:58:37 <TomDN> then we need a prov-links namespace as well
Tom De Nies: then we need a prov-links namespace as well ←
16:58:55 <GK> IMO, if any of the XML namespaces are different from the corresponding RDF, then they should *all* be different
Graham Klyne: IMO, if any of the XML namespaces are different from the corresponding RDF, then they should *all* be different ←
16:59:10 <stain> q+
Stian Soiland-Reyes: q+ ←
16:59:13 <GK> .. including the "core" namespace
Graham Klyne: .. including the "core" namespace ←
16:59:31 <Curt> just do 2, core, and core + all extensions
Curt Tilmes: just do 2, core, and core + all extensions ←
16:59:51 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:59:52 <stain> exactly.. we do a single schema with only core, and one with core-everything
Stian Soiland-Reyes: exactly.. we do a single schema with only core, and one with core-everything ←
16:59:53 <tlebo> q+ to ask zednik where the motivation for different namespaces comes from
q+ to ask zednik where the motivation for different namespaces comes from ←
16:59:59 <Luc> ack st
Luc Moreau: ack st ←
17:00:25 <tlebo> stain: oen for core prov xml, one that is prov-everything xml schema. If you don't like either of those, then you're on your own.
Stian Soiland-Reyes: oen for core prov xml, one that is prov-everything xml schema. If you don't like either of those, then you're on your own. ←
17:00:26 <zednik> q+
Stephan Zednik: q+ ←
17:00:43 <Luc> ack tl
Luc Moreau: ack tl ←
17:00:43 <Zakim> tlebo, you wanted to ask zednik where the motivation for different namespaces comes from
Zakim IRC Bot: tlebo, you wanted to ask zednik where the motivation for different namespaces comes from ←
17:01:57 <Luc> q+
Luc Moreau: q+ ←
17:02:27 <Curt> I'm ok with one schema with everything
Curt Tilmes: I'm ok with one schema with everything ←
17:02:46 <pgroth> q+ prov-xml is a note
Paul Groth: q+ prov-xml is a note ←
17:02:57 <pgroth> i like that
Paul Groth: i like that ←
17:02:57 <tlebo> q-
q- ←
17:03:02 <zednik> q-
Stephan Zednik: q- ←
17:04:01 <tlebo> Luc: : single schema file with all terms that use one namespace, THEN half-way house of a single schema for just the core Rec terms.
Luc Moreau: : single schema file with all terms that use one namespace, THEN half-way house of a single schema for just the core Rec terms. ←
17:04:03 <pgroth> q+ to say that it is a single namespace
Paul Groth: q+ to say that it is a single namespace ←
17:04:20 <Luc> ack luc
Luc Moreau: ack luc ←
17:04:33 <stain> I think this is mainly an artifact of XML Schema being very strict of linking schemas and namespaces - this is not a big deal in other ways to express XML schemas like Relax NG
Stian Soiland-Reyes: I think this is mainly an artifact of XML Schema being very strict of linking schemas and namespaces - this is not a big deal in other ways to express XML schemas like Relax NG ←
17:05:03 <pgroth> ack pgroth
Paul Groth: ack pgroth ←
17:05:03 <Zakim> pgroth, you wanted to say that it is a single namespace
Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, you wanted to say that it is a single namespace ←
17:05:25 <tlebo> pgroth: everyone should be able to paste the namespace to a browser and get all serializations documented.
Paul Groth: everyone should be able to paste the namespace to a browser and get all serializations documented. ←
17:05:34 <khalidBelhajjame> bye
Khalid Belhajjame: bye ←
17:05:34 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: -Satya_Sahoo ←
17:05:36 <Zakim> -tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo ←
17:05:36 <Zakim> -Paolo
Zakim IRC Bot: -Paolo ←
17:05:37 <Zakim> -??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P22 ←
17:05:37 <Zakim> -TomDN
Zakim IRC Bot: -TomDN ←
17:05:37 <GK> Bye
Graham Klyne: Bye ←
17:05:37 <SamCoppens> bye
Sam Coppens: bye ←
17:05:38 <dgarijo> bbye
Daniel Garijo: bbye ←
17:05:39 <Zakim> -stain
Zakim IRC Bot: -stain ←
17:05:40 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller.a] ←
17:05:41 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes
Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt_Tilmes ←
17:05:43 <Zakim> - +1.818.731.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.818.731.aadd ←
17:05:44 <Zakim> -pgroth
Zakim IRC Bot: -pgroth ←
17:05:46 <Zakim> -dgarijo
Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo ←
17:05:46 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
17:05:46 <tlebo> Luc: I am done scribing?
Luc Moreau: I am done scribing? ←
17:05:48 <Luc> rrsagent, set log public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, set log public ←
17:05:50 <Zakim> -??P41
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P41 ←
17:05:53 <Zakim> -TallTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -TallTed ←
17:05:54 <Zakim> -GK
Zakim IRC Bot: -GK ←
17:06:31 <Luc> rrsagent, draft minutes
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
17:06:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-minutes.html Luc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-minutes.html Luc ←
17:06:35 <Luc> trackbot, end telcon
Luc Moreau: trackbot, end telcon ←
17:06:35 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, list attendees ←
17:06:36 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Curt_Tilmes, Luc, dgarijo, pgroth, [IPcaller], Ivan, +1.315.330.aabb, tlebo, Satya_Sahoo, +1.818.731.aacc, TallTed, TomDN, SamCoppens, GK_,
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been Curt_Tilmes, Luc, dgarijo, pgroth, [IPcaller], Ivan, +1.315.330.aabb, tlebo, Satya_Sahoo, +1.818.731.aacc, TallTed, TomDN, SamCoppens, GK_, ←
17:06:36 <Zakim> ... GK, stain, +1.818.731.aadd, Paolo
Zakim IRC Bot: ... GK, stain, +1.818.731.aadd, Paolo ←
17:06:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, please draft minutes ←
17:06:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-minutes.html trackbot
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-minutes.html trackbot ←
17:06:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, bye ←
17:06:44 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-actions.rdf :
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-actions.rdf : ←
17:06:44 <RRSAgent> ACTION: pgroth to respond to public comments [1]
ACTION: pgroth to respond to public comments [1] ←
17:06:44 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-irc#T16-30-57
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/01/17-prov-irc#T16-30-57 ←
Formatted by CommonScribe