15:10:38 <tlebo> [ a prov:Entity; prov:value "mostly by around April 20. "; prov:wasQuotedFrom <http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-04-12> ] .

Timothy Lebo: [ a prov:Entity; prov:value "mostly by around April 20. "; prov:wasQuotedFrom <http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2012-04-12> ] . ←

15:10:41 <Curt> pgroth: several changes need to be done/have been discussed

Paul Groth: several changes need to be done/have been discussed ←

15:11:01 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/diff.html

Luc Moreau: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/diff.html ←

15:11:06 <Curt> ... invalidation/collection vs. dictionary

... invalidation/collection vs. dictionary ←

15:11:18 <Curt> luc: worked on DM, changes circulated

Luc Moreau: worked on DM, changes circulated ←

15:11:40 <Curt> ... paolo/james may talk about other documents

... paolo/james may talk about other documents ←

15:11:52 <Curt> ... all changes recommended by reviewers have been addressed

... all changes recommended by reviewers have been addressed ←

15:12:03 <Curt> ... accounts/annotations not covered in this release

... accounts/annotations not covered in this release ←

15:12:13 <Curt> ... a draft for invalidation has been proposed

... a draft for invalidation has been proposed ←

15:12:38 <Curt> ... assuming PROV-O team can include invalidation, should all be ready

... assuming PROV-O team can include invalidation, should all be ready ←

15:12:48 <Curt> ... there was a suggestion to rename collection to dictionary

... there was a suggestion to rename collection to dictionary ←

15:12:58 <Curt> ... may want to incorporate that change now

... may want to incorporate that change now ←

15:14:03 <Curt> jcheney: prov-constraints changes

James Cheney: prov-constraints changes ←

15:14:06 <jcheney> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd5-prov-dm-constraints-revised.html

James Cheney: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd5-prov-dm-constraints-revised.html ←

15:14:30 <Curt> ... starting from last reviewed version

... starting from last reviewed version ←

15:14:30 <jcheney> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd5-prov-dm-constraints.html

James Cheney: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd5-prov-dm-constraints.html ←

15:14:56 <Curt> ... two major criticisms from tim/graham/james -- organization and lack of clarity of purpose

... two major criticisms from tim/graham/james -- organization and lack of clarity of purpose ←

15:14:56 <Luc> ^^^ not the right  url

Luc Moreau: ^^^ not the right url ←

15:14:59 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-dm-constraints.html

Luc Moreau: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-dm-constraints.html ←

15:15:23 <Curt> ... first part easier to address.  reorganized what was there to group similar things together

... first part easier to address. reorganized what was there to group similar things together ←

15:15:35 <Curt> ... sections on inferences, and different types of constraints

... sections on inferences, and different types of constraints ←

15:15:51 <Curt> ... haven't invented a complete story fitting this document into the overall context

... haven't invented a complete story fitting this document into the overall context ←

15:16:04 <Curt> ... added notes about some things that still need explanation

... added notes about some things that still need explanation ←

15:16:31 <Curt> ... graham/james asked the overall purpose for this document

... graham/james asked the overall purpose for this document ←

15:16:54 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me

Tom De Nies: Zakim, mute me ←

15:16:54 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: TomDN should now be muted ←

15:17:12 <Curt> ... taken the view that this document adds additional information to a provenance description

... taken the view that this document adds additional information to a provenance description ←

15:17:23 <Curt> ... wants guidance from group

... wants guidance from group ←

15:17:40 <Curt> ... if we release, should emphasize that this is a working draft

... if we release, should emphasize that this is a working draft ←

15:17:54 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q? ←

15:17:57 <Curt> ... still internalizing some aspects of the document

... still internalizing some aspects of the document ←

15:18:03 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q? ←

15:18:12 <Paolo> PROV-N - http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-n.html

Paolo Missier: PROV-N - http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/prov-n.html ←

15:18:50 <Curt> paolo: prov-n changes incorporated - sections rearranged for clarification of scope, organization

Paolo Missier: prov-n changes incorporated - sections rearranged for clarification of scope, organization ←

15:19:17 <Curt> ... new section 1, 2 explain scope/context

... new section 1, 2 explain scope/context ←

15:20:03 <Curt> ... simon suggested discuss arguments of each expression clearly, new version clarifies that for each example

... simon suggested discuss arguments of each expression clearly, new version clarifies that for each example ←

15:20:20 <Curt> ... includes different meanings for optional arguments

... includes different meanings for optional arguments ←

15:21:02 <Zakim> +??P38

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P38 ←

15:21:13 <Curt> ... tim suggested hyperlink nodes to yacc description, still need to add some yacc/html stuff

... tim suggested hyperlink nodes to yacc description, still need to add some yacc/html stuff ←

15:21:15 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P38 is me

Daniel Garijo: Zakim, ??P38 is me ←

15:21:16 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it ←

15:21:28 <pgroth> +q

Paul Groth: +q ←

15:21:31 <pgroth> ack pgroth

Paul Groth: ack pgroth ←

15:21:33 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q? ←

15:21:43 <tlebo> latest draft to release:  http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/e35dff3bbd37/ontology/spwd/2012-04-18-vote-for-public-release/prov-o.html#Start

Timothy Lebo: latest draft to release: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/e35dff3bbd37/ontology/spwd/2012-04-18-vote-for-public-release/prov-o.html#Start ←

15:21:44 <Curt> tlebo: prov-o

Timothy Lebo: prov-o ←

15:22:03 <tlebo> reworked expanded terms section reworked collections section added infrastructure and stubs for examples in cross reference sections.

Timothy Lebo: reworked expanded terms section reworked collections section added infrastructure and stubs for examples in cross reference sections. ←

15:22:05 <Curt> ... 3 biggest changes: rework terms section, collections section

... 3 biggest changes: rework terms section, collections section ←

15:22:16 <Curt> ... thanks stain/khalid

... thanks stain/khalid ←

15:22:31 <Curt> ... crossreference, added stubs for examples

... crossreference, added stubs for examples ←

15:22:35 <tlebo> last round of comments being managed at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Prov-o_draft_review_2_April_2012

Timothy Lebo: last round of comments being managed at http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Prov-o_draft_review_2_April_2012 ←

15:23:06 <Curt> ... issues being addressed/closed there ^^

... issues being addressed/closed there ^^ ←

15:23:13 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q? ←

15:23:27 <dgarijo> thanks Tim for including everything so fast.

Daniel Garijo: thanks Tim for including everything so fast. ←

15:23:30 <Curt> smiles: primer

Simon Miles: primer ←

15:23:41 <smiles> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/primer/Primer.html

Simon Miles: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/primer/Primer.html ←

15:23:42 <Curt> ... addressed all reviews

... addressed all reviews ←

15:23:53 <Curt> ... added images to illustrate examples

... added images to illustrate examples ←

15:23:56 <Curt> ... many other minor things

... many other minor things ←

15:24:05 <tlebo> += "thanks to daniel for help on reworked expaned terms section"

Timothy Lebo: += "thanks to daniel for help on reworked expaned terms section" ←

15:24:08 <Curt> ... up to date with regard to prov-dm prov-n

... up to date with regard to prov-dm prov-n ←

15:24:25 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q? ←

15:24:27 <Curt> ... explaining things in a more intuitive way

... explaining things in a more intuitive way ←

15:24:39 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+ ←

15:24:42 <Curt> pgroth: proposals to vote on

Paul Groth: proposals to vote on ←

15:24:48 <pgroth> ack luc

Paul Groth: ack luc ←

15:25:04 <Curt> luc: simon brought up how we use prov and prov-dm

Luc Moreau: simon brought up how we use prov and prov-dm ←

15:25:14 <Curt> ... should use prov instead of prov-dm in some places

... should use prov instead of prov-dm in some places ←

15:25:30 <TomDN> Zakim, SamCoppens is with TomDN

Tom De Nies: Zakim, SamCoppens is with TomDN ←

15:25:30 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +SamCoppens; got it ←

15:25:32 <Curt> ... looked at constraints, that apply to prov model

... looked at constraints, that apply to prov model ←

15:25:58 <Curt> ... should call prov-constraints instead of prov-dm-constraints

... should call prov-constraints instead of prov-dm-constraints ←

15:26:12 <pgroth> Proposal 1: Following internal and external feedback, the first deliverable (referred to as "D1. PIL Conceptual Model" in the charter) is reorganized into three separate documents. The three documents are now known by their respective short names: prov-dm, prov-constraints, prov-n. These documents are intended to become W3C Recommendations.

Paul Groth: Proposal 1: Following internal and external feedback, the first deliverable (referred to as "D1. PIL Conceptual Model" in the charter) is reorganized into three separate documents. The three documents are now known by their respective short names: prov-dm, prov-constraints, prov-n. These documents are intended to become W3C Recommendations. ←

15:26:36 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←

15:26:39 <Curt> +1

+1 ←

15:26:40 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1 ←

15:26:40 <TomDN> +1

Tom De Nies: +1 ←

15:26:40 <smiles> +1

Simon Miles: +1 ←

15:26:41 <Paolo> +1

Paolo Missier: +1 ←

15:26:42 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1 ←

15:26:44 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1 ←

15:26:45 <stephenc> +1

Stephen Cresswell: +1 ←

15:26:45 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1 ←

15:26:46 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1 ←

15:26:47 <YolandaGil> +1

Yolanda Gil: +1 ←

15:26:50 <satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1 ←

15:27:08 <pgroth> accepted:  Following internal and external feedback, the first deliverable (referred to as "D1. PIL Conceptual Model" in the charter) is reorganized into three separate documents. The three documents are now known by their respective short names: prov-dm, prov-constraints, prov-n. These documents are intended to become W3C Recommendations.

RESOLVED: Following internal and external feedback, the first deliverable (referred to as "D1. PIL Conceptual Model" in the charter) is reorganized into three separate documents. The three documents are now known by their respective short names: prov-dm, prov-constraints, prov-n. These documents are intended to become W3C Recommendations. ←

15:27:25 <pgroth> Proposal 2: Release the current version of prov-dm document as fourth public working draft

Paul Groth: Proposal 2: Release the current version of prov-dm document as fourth public working draft ←

15:27:32 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1 ←

15:27:33 <Paolo> +1

Paolo Missier: +1 ←

15:27:33 <smiles> +1

Simon Miles: +1 ←

15:27:33 <satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1 ←

15:27:34 <Curt> +1

+1 ←

15:27:34 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1 ←

15:27:34 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1 ←

15:27:35 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1 ←

15:27:35 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←

15:27:35 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1 ←

15:27:36 <TomDN> +1

Tom De Nies: +1 ←

15:27:37 <YolandaGil> +1

Yolanda Gil: +1 ←

15:27:53 <pgroth> accepted: Release the current version of prov-dm document as fourth public working draft

RESOLVED: Release the current version of prov-dm document as fourth public working draft ←

15:27:54 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←

15:28:12 <pgroth> Proposal 3: Release the current version of prov-constraints document as first public working draft

Paul Groth: Proposal 3: Release the current version of prov-constraints document as first public working draft ←

15:28:15 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←

15:28:17 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←

15:28:19 <Curt> +1

+1 ←

15:28:19 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1 ←

15:28:20 <TomDN> +1

Tom De Nies: +1 ←

15:28:20 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1 ←

15:28:21 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1 ←

15:28:21 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1 ←

15:28:24 <YolandaGil> +1

Yolanda Gil: +1 ←

15:28:28 <Paolo> +1

Paolo Missier: +1 ←

15:28:34 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1 ←

15:28:43 <satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1 ←

15:28:53 <pgroth> accepted: Release the current version of prov-constraints document as first public working draft

RESOLVED: Release the current version of prov-constraints document as first public working draft ←

15:29:03 <pgroth> Proposal 4: Release the current version of prov-n document as first public working draft

Paul Groth: Proposal 4: Release the current version of prov-n document as first public working draft ←

15:29:07 <smiles> +1

Simon Miles: +1 ←

15:29:08 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←

15:29:08 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←

15:29:08 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1 ←

15:29:09 <Curt> +1

+1 ←

15:29:09 <TomDN> +1

Tom De Nies: +1 ←

15:29:10 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1 ←

15:29:10 <Paolo> +1

Paolo Missier: +1 ←

15:29:10 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1 ←

15:29:10 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1 ←

15:29:13 <satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1 ←

15:29:15 <YolandaGil> +1

Yolanda Gil: +1 ←

15:29:19 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1 ←

15:29:29 <pgroth> accepted: Release the current version of prov-n document as first public working draft

RESOLVED: Release the current version of prov-n document as first public working draft ←

15:29:44 <pgroth> Proposal 5: Release the current version of prov-o document as second public working draft

Paul Groth: Proposal 5: Release the current version of prov-o document as second public working draft ←

15:29:45 <satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1 ←

15:29:46 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1 ←

15:29:46 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1 ←

15:29:46 <Curt> +1

+1 ←

15:29:47 <smiles> +1

Simon Miles: +1 ←

15:29:48 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←

15:29:48 <TomDN> +1

Tom De Nies: +1 ←

15:29:49 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1 ←

15:29:49 <tlebo> +1

Timothy Lebo: +1 ←

15:29:51 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←

15:29:51 <Paolo> +1

Paolo Missier: +1 ←

15:29:53 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1 ←

15:29:56 <YolandaGil> +1

Yolanda Gil: +1 ←

15:30:10 <pgroth> accepted: Release the current version of prov-o document as second public working draft

RESOLVED: Release the current version of prov-o document as second public working draft ←

15:30:24 <pgroth> Proposal 6: Release the current version of prov-primer document as second public working draft

Paul Groth: Proposal 6: Release the current version of prov-primer document as second public working draft ←

15:30:26 <dgarijo> +1

Daniel Garijo: +1 ←

15:30:26 <satya> +1

Satya Sahoo: +1 ←

15:30:27 <SamCoppens> +1

Sam Coppens: +1 ←

15:30:27 <jcheney> +1

James Cheney: +1 ←

15:30:28 <smiles> +1

Simon Miles: +1 ←

15:30:28 <Zakim> +??P14

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14 ←

15:30:28 <Curt> +1

+1 ←

15:30:28 <TomDN> +1

Tom De Nies: +1 ←

15:30:29 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

Khalid Belhajjame: +1 ←

15:30:29 <Paolo> +1

Paolo Missier: +1 ←

15:30:30 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1 ←

15:30:32 <MacTed> +1

Ted Thibodeau: +1 ←

15:30:34 <YolandaGil> +1

Yolanda Gil: +1 ←

15:30:47 <pgroth> accepted:  Release the current version of prov-primer document as second public working draft

RESOLVED: Release the current version of prov-primer document as second public working draft ←

15:31:04 <pgroth> q?

Paul Groth: q? ←

15:31:07 <Luc> q+

Luc Moreau: q+ ←

15:31:09 <smiles> q+

Simon Miles: q+ ←

15:31:14 <pgroth> ack Luc

Paul Groth: ack Luc ←

15:31:47 <Luc> q-

Luc Moreau: q- ←

15:31:52 <Curt> luc: collection/dictionary question?

Luc Moreau: collection/dictionary question? ←

15:31:58 <Curt> pgroth: after invalidation

Paul Groth: after invalidation ←

15:31:59 <pgroth> ack smiles

Paul Groth: ack smiles ←

15:32:04 <Luc> i will coordinate

Luc Moreau: i will coordinate ←

15:32:23 <pgroth> Topic: Collection and Dictionary

<pgroth> Summary: Discussion on the mailing list suggested that there was consensus to rename the current prov:Collections to prov:Dictionary. The group agreed that this was a good idea and approved a proposal to make this change in the upcoming release. The group agreed to continue and discuss collections as a whole on the list.

15:33:00 <Curt> pgroth: consensus on mailing list that collections as modeled are really dictionaries.  Should we rename to that?

15:33:07 <pgroth> q?

15:33:11 <Curt> ... should that be done for this release?

15:33:33 <Curt> pgroth: a simple renaming

15:33:38 <Paolo> q+

15:33:39 <Curt> ... editors have issues with that?

15:33:53 <pgroth> ack Paolo

15:34:02 <Curt> paolo: discussed on the list,

15:34:30 <Curt> ... may be some follow on discussion about different types of collections, but no issues with renaming as an editor

15:34:42 <pgroth> Proposal rename prov:Collection into prov:Dictionary

15:34:51 <tlebo> :D

15:34:52 <pgroth> rename prov:Collection into prov:Dictionary for this synchronous release

15:35:04 <pgroth> Proposal rename prov:Collection into prov:Dictionary for this synchronous release

15:35:13 <smiles> +1

15:35:13 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

15:35:13 <Paolo> +1

15:35:14 <Curt> +1

15:35:14 <tlebo> +1

15:35:15 <dgarijo> +0

15:35:18 <sandro> +1

15:35:20 <jcheney> +1

15:35:21 <zednik> +1

15:35:21 <MacTed> +0

15:35:26 <TomDN> +0

15:35:28 <satya> 0

15:35:31 <SamCoppens> +0

15:35:52 <Curt> pgroth: for people who voted 0, why? objections?

15:36:08 <satya> q+

15:36:10 <dgarijo> Because I haven't been able to follow all the discussions around collections. I don't have objections

15:36:38 <Luc> no, we would not

15:36:39 <TomDN> for me: I'm not up to date on the discussion, but have no objections

15:36:46 <Curt> satya: do we have a collection construct?

15:36:47 <SamCoppens> No objections, but not up to date with latest discussion, hence 0

15:36:59 <Curt> pgroth: perhaps add back in after release

15:37:22 <Curt> satya: still discussion needs to happen, won't hold up release

15:37:36 <Curt> pgroth: yes, discussion will continue, question is simply to rename for this release

15:37:43 <MacTed> I think too much discussion remains to make action worthwhile... but I'm not going to block either way

15:37:54 <pgroth> accepted: rename prov:Collection into prov:Dictionary for this synchronous release

15:38:05 <pgroth> q?

15:38:08 <pgroth> ack satya

15:38:18 <pgroth> Topic: Invalidation/Destruction

<pgroth> Summary: Luc put together a revised proposal for invalidation and destruction which seemed to have support on the mailing list. The group approved the integration  of this proposal into the upcoming release of the documents.

15:38:39 <Curt> pgroth: some discussion around invalidation/destruction, would be nice to have for symmetry

15:38:42 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/working-copy/wd5-prov-invalidation.html

15:38:50 <Curt> ... not too much disagreement around it

15:39:08 <Curt> pgroth: incorporate into DM?

15:39:40 <Curt> luc: we took into account the feedback from macted, graham, and other discussion, folded into the document^^

15:39:49 <Curt> ... a few people commented they like it

15:39:52 <pgroth> q?

15:40:04 <pgroth> Proposal 7: Incorporate the invalidation/destruction in prov-dm for immediate release

15:40:11 <smiles> +1

15:40:12 <Curt> +1

15:40:13 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

15:40:13 <tlebo> +1

15:40:14 <TomDN> +1

15:40:15 <MacTed> +1

15:40:17 <dgarijo> +1

15:40:18 <SamCoppens> +1

15:40:20 <jcheney> +1

15:40:22 <stephenc> +1

15:40:22 <sandro> +1

15:40:28 <satya> +1

15:40:29 <Paolo> +1

15:40:29 <zednik> +1

15:40:42 <pgroth> accepted:  Incorporate the invalidation/destruction in prov-dm for immediate release

15:41:09 <smiles> q+

15:41:12 <Curt> pgroth: that covers this synchronous release.  any other issues about that release?

15:41:19 <pgroth> ack smiles

15:41:29 <Curt> smiles: the documents refer to each other with correct references?

15:41:53 <Luc> yes, it's part of the release process

15:41:55 <tlebo> prov-o's references need to be updated too. That's just part of publication, right?

15:41:59 <Curt> pgroth: luc to coordinate release, can you check that?

15:42:02 <Curt> luc: yes

15:42:13 <Luc> q+

15:42:13 <pgroth> q?

15:42:22 <pgroth> ack Luc

15:42:33 <Curt> luc: we need to agree on the actual release date.

15:42:55 <Curt> ... two approvals to pass, get short names for new documents, then publication requests for all new documents

15:43:08 <Curt> ... need 4 working days of notice, what is a reasonable date?

15:43:29 <Curt> ... can only publish on tuesday or thursday

15:43:36 <Curt> ... perhaps tuesday May 1?

15:43:52 <pgroth> is that a holiday sandro?

15:43:57 <smiles> yes, possible, I think

15:43:57 <Curt> luc: all editors would need to be ready by next Tuesday or Wednesday

15:43:58 <tlebo> That is very tight for me.

15:44:27 <jcheney> q+

15:44:39 <pgroth> ack jcheney

15:44:52 <Curt> jcheney: how much work to get from where we are with constraints to fit required style?

15:45:12 <Curt> luc: the version was html 5 compliant mostly, not sure if you have preserved that

15:45:30 <Curt> luc: most things get taken care of to create the compliant files

15:45:52 <Curt> ... look at models subdir in mercurial to see it

15:45:58 <pgroth> q?

15:46:15 <Curt> jcheney: will luc/paolo do that publication work or james?

15:46:30 <Paolo> I can help but I have not done it before

15:46:36 <Curt> luc: if there aren't many HTML problems, luc could do it in a couple hours, would be nice to get some help with that

15:46:50 <Curt> sandro: all editors should try to make compliant html and check links

15:47:28 <Curt> pgroth: try end of next week, then go for May 3?

15:47:57 <Curt> pgroth: would make the request for the names

15:48:08 <Curt> luc: yes, transition request today, will copy all editors

15:48:34 <Curt> luc: time to make the document compliant with rules after making publication request

15:48:42 <smiles> yes

15:48:45 <Luc> +1

15:48:49 <Paolo> ok

15:48:53 <tlebo> q+

15:48:55 <Curt> pgroth: Editors -- May 3 release ok?

15:49:08 <Curt> tlebo: what needs to be done by May 3

15:49:26 <Curt> pgroth: make the compliant document available

15:49:31 <pgroth> ack tlebo

15:49:44 <Curt> luc: that should be done by April 30 to start process and checks

15:50:00 <Curt> tlebo: 4/30 sounds reasonable

15:50:01 <tlebo> q-

15:50:19 <pgroth> q?

15:50:32 <tlebo> and the WG! :D

15:50:34 <Curt> pgroth: 4/30 for editors to be ready, 5/3 for actual release

15:50:38 <pgroth> Topic: Discussion on OWL RL

<pgroth> Summary: There is a requirement that the ontology be "lightweight". This has been operationalized by ensuring that the ontology is compatible with OWL-RL. However, this was causing difficulty in appropriately mapping to the DM. Through discussion on the mailing list, a new approach was suggested where OWL-RL was treated as a baseline but certain deviations were allowed but needed to be documented. The group agreed that this was guidance the editors of prov-o should follow.

15:51:12 <Curt> pgroth: current ontology compliant with RL, but has difficulties modeling all constructs of the DM

15:51:32 <Curt> ... RL is operationalize 'lightweight ontology' requirement

15:51:53 <Curt> ... editors and PROV-O people have a hard time with the RL constraint

15:52:08 <Curt> ... would be nice to relax that requirement and allow certain other non-RL constructs to be used

15:52:29 <Curt> ... Is that ok?  How do we make sure we remain 'lightweight'?

15:52:59 <Curt> <silence>

15:53:00 <pgroth> q?

15:53:01 <tlebo> q+

15:53:10 <dgarijo> I think that the RL++ proposed by Tim made sense.

15:53:14 <pgroth> ack tlebo

15:53:29 <Curt> tlebo: we generally agreed to relax RL slightly, and enumerate the violations

15:53:44 <Curt> ... clearly point out the constructs that aren't recognized by RL

15:53:58 <Curt> ... RL reasoners can still omit those constructs

15:54:12 <Curt> ... RL is the baseline for lightweight characteristics, but allow a few violations

15:54:34 <Curt> pgroth: which constructs will you need?  unions on domain/range?

15:55:03 <Curt> tlebo: yes, there are now two unions on domain/range, and that addresses design issues, a nice option to include those

15:55:25 <Curt> ... if there are other things we want to use, each kind of construct will be considered individually

15:55:36 <pgroth> q?

15:55:40 <Curt> ... unions alone are helpful

15:55:49 <dgarijo> hadRole and hadActivity are the ones with unions

15:55:59 <Curt> pgroth: not very controversial.

15:56:24 <Curt> luc; isn't this already in the release we've approved?

15:56:44 <Curt> pgroth: yes, but this is a real change in the direction of PROV-O.  Want support from the group on that.

15:57:33 <pgroth> proposal: the ontology will be based on OWL-RL and any deviations from that profile will be documented in the ontology documentation

15:57:45 <tlebo> +1

15:57:49 <dgarijo> +1

15:57:49 <satya> +1

15:57:49 <jcheney> +1

15:57:49 <Curt> +1

15:57:51 <Paolo> +1

15:57:51 <khalidbelhajjame> +1

15:57:52 <TomDN> +1

15:57:53 <smiles> +1 (to the limited extent of my knowledge)

15:57:54 <stephenc> +1

15:57:56 <sandro> +1

15:57:56 <SamCoppens> +1

15:57:59 <zednik> q+

15:58:17 <tlebo> q+

15:58:17 <Curt> zednik: do we have guidelines on which deviations will be permitted?

15:58:23 <pgroth> ack zednik

15:58:36 <Luc> q+

15:58:38 <Curt> tlebo: unions in domains/ranges ok for now, other changes need to be considered

15:58:52 <pgroth> ack tlebo

15:59:00 <tlebo> q-

15:59:03 <pgroth> ack Luc

15:59:03 <zednik> q-

15:59:06 <Curt> zednik: what about existential dependents (?)?

15:59:28 <Curt> luc: RL will work ok even with non-RL compliant constructs

15:59:34 <Curt> tlebo: yes, it will skip over them

15:59:56 <tlebo> the simplicity of RL is that it's based on a set of rules application.

16:00:03 <Curt> pgroth: try to stick with RL as a baseline

16:00:35 <tlebo> @zednik, go a head and raise the ISSUE so we can consider it.

16:00:41 <Curt> pgroth: make an argument for each other non-RL thing to use

16:00:55 <pgroth> q?

16:01:05 <pgroth> accepted: the ontology will be based on OWL-RL and any deviations from that profile will be documented in the ontology documentation

16:01:11 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo

16:01:11 <TomDN> Zakim, unmute me

16:01:12 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted

16:01:12 <Zakim> -??P12

16:01:13 <Zakim> -tlebo

16:01:13 <Zakim> -??P6

16:01:14 <SamCoppens> Thanks, Bye

16:01:14 <zednik> @tlebo, raise the issue on guidelines or on existential dependence?

16:01:15 <Zakim> -Luc

16:01:17 <Zakim> -dgarijo

16:01:19 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame

16:01:22 <Zakim> -Sandro

16:01:23 <Zakim> -jcheney

16:01:29 <Zakim> -TomDN

16:01:31 <Zakim> -MacTed

16:01:35 <pgroth> rrsagent, set logs public

16:01:39 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes

16:01:40 <pgroth> rrsagent, draft minutes

16:01:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-prov-minutes.html pgroth

16:01:45 <pgroth> trackbot, end telcon

16:01:45 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees

16:01:47 <Zakim> -??P14

16:01:53 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Curt_Tilmes, Sandro, MacTed, +1.315.723.aaaa, tlebo, Satya_Sahoo, [ISI], khalidbelhajjame, Luc, TomDN, jcheney, dgarijo, SamCoppens

16:01:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes

16:01:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/04/19-prov-minutes.html trackbot

16:01:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye

16:01:54 <RRSAgent> I see no action items

16:01:56 <Zakim> -??P1