Last week's teleconference minutes were approved.
The PROV-WG formally approved the release of the data model document as a first public working draft. It is expected that the formal model document will be made available for internal review on Monday. Timetable for the PAQ document to be check with Paul; Graham's absence was noted.
Eric presented the Connection Task Force informal report. The group is invited to read the document and feedback comments.
Yolanda has joined Simon as editor of the primer. They will prepare a plan of actions, which they will present next week.
Satya updated us on the progress of the formal model document. A number of topics were discussed: subclassing, role, account, and named graph. Tim will explain how the concept of account can be captured in the ontology; this should help formulate requirements for named graphs. The importance of test/use cases was noted, and the team is encouraged to keep on building a catalogue of such cases.
14:39:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-prov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-prov-irc ←
14:39:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:39:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be ←
14:39:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot ←
14:39:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:39:21 <trackbot> Date: 29 September 2011
14:39:26 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV
Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
14:39:26 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 21 minutes ←
14:39:39 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.09.29
14:39:48 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
14:39:58 <Luc> Scribe: Yogesh Simmhan
(Scribe set to Yogesh Simmhan)
14:40:36 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public ←
<luc>Topic: Admin
Summary: Last week's teleconference minutes were approved.
<Luc>Summary: Last week's teleconference minutes were approved.
14:56:12 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 15 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started ←
14:56:17 <Zakim> +Vinh
Zakim IRC Bot: +Vinh ←
14:56:26 <Zakim> +Yogesh
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yogesh ←
14:57:19 <Luc> Hi Yogesh, everything setup for you
Luc Moreau: Hi Yogesh, everything setup for you ←
14:57:27 <Yogesh> Thanks Luc
Thanks Luc ←
14:57:42 <Zakim> +Curt_Tilmes
Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt_Tilmes ←
14:57:55 <Zakim> +??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←
14:58:16 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.238.059.aaaa ←
14:58:28 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P11 is me
Daniel Garijo: Zakim, ??P11 is me ←
14:58:28 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it ←
14:58:30 <Luc> zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me
Luc Moreau: zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me ←
14:58:30 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc; got it ←
14:58:39 <dgarijo> Hi everyone
Daniel Garijo: Hi everyone ←
14:58:58 <Zakim> + +1.509.967.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.967.aabb ←
15:00:19 <Zakim> +??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←
15:01:09 <Zakim> +??P4
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4 ←
15:02:07 <Zakim> + +1.315.330.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.315.330.aacc ←
15:02:35 <Yogesh> Luc: admin issues, release of 1st public working draft, hearing from eric about connection task force report, Simon give primer, and satya formal doc
Luc Moreau: admin issues, release of 1st public working draft, hearing from eric about connection task force report, Simon give primer, and satya formal doc ←
15:02:47 <Yogesh> Luc: any other issues? No.
Luc Moreau: any other issues? No. ←
15:02:49 <Luc> PROPOSED to accept the minutes of Sep 22 telecon
Luc Moreau: PROPOSED to accept the minutes of Sep 22 telecon ←
15:02:58 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: +Satya_Sahoo ←
15:02:59 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-09-22
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2011-09-22 ←
15:03:04 <satya> +1
Satya Sahoo: +1 ←
15:03:09 <Yogesh> +1
+1 ←
15:03:10 <ericstephan> +1
Eric Stephan: +1 ←
15:03:11 <Curt> +1
Curt Tilmes: +1 ←
15:03:12 <dgarijo> +q
Daniel Garijo: +q ←
15:03:14 <dgarijo> -q
Daniel Garijo: -q ←
15:03:15 <tlebo> +1
Timothy Lebo: +1 ←
15:03:16 <dgarijo> +1
Daniel Garijo: +1 ←
15:03:23 <StephenCresswell> +1
Stephen Cresswell: +1 ←
15:03:44 <Luc> ACCEPTED: minutes of Sep 22 telecon
RESOLVED: minutes of Sep 22 telecon ←
15:03:53 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/open ←
15:04:16 <Zakim> +??P46
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P46 ←
15:04:16 <Yogesh> Luc: action assigned to satya on doing named graph e.g.
Luc Moreau: action assigned to satya on doing named graph e.g. ←
15:04:28 <GK> zakin, ??P46 is me
Graham Klyne: zakin, ??P46 is me ←
15:04:35 <Yogesh> satya: paolo closed it last week.
Satya Sahoo: paolo closed it last week. ←
15:04:49 <pgroth> i think that action was closed
Paul Groth: i think that action was closed ←
15:04:53 <Luc> TOPIC: First Public Working Drafts
Summary: The PROV-WG formally approved the release of the data model document as a first public working draft. It is expected that the formal model document will be made available for internal review on Monday. Timetable for the PAQ document to be check with Paul; Graham's absence was noted.
<Luc>Summary: The PROV-WG formally approved the release of the data model document as a first public working draft. It is expected that the formal model document will be made available for internal review on Monday. Timetable for the PAQ document to be check with Paul; Graham's absence was noted.
15:05:22 <Yogesh> luc: data model doc to be released this week as FPWD
Luc Moreau: data model doc to be released this week as FPWD ←
15:05:28 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:05:30 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
15:05:35 <Yogesh> luc: feedback from participants and is it ok to release?
Luc Moreau: feedback from participants and is it ok to release? ←
15:05:54 <Zakim> +??P10
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P10 ←
15:05:56 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
15:05:59 <Yogesh> satya: has been raising issues. Do we address issues and continue working on doc after its released?
Satya Sahoo: has been raising issues. Do we address issues and continue working on doc after its released? ←
15:06:08 <khalidbelhajjame> zakim, ??P10 is me
Khalid Belhajjame: zakim, ??P10 is me ←
15:06:10 <GK> @Luc: I do *not* regard my comments today as blockers for release as FPWD
Graham Klyne: @Luc: I do *not* regard my comments today as blockers for release as FPWD ←
15:06:16 <Zakim> +khalidbelhajjame; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +khalidbelhajjame; got it ←
15:06:30 <Yogesh> luc: first draft that is publicly released. Keep working on doc. To decide if there is anything blocking release.
Luc Moreau: first draft that is publicly released. Keep working on doc. To decide if there is anything blocking release. ←
15:06:57 <Yogesh> satya: is ok with releasing it.
Satya Sahoo: is ok with releasing it. ←
15:07:21 <Yogesh> luc: keep adding comments so readers know it is a work in progress.
Luc Moreau: keep adding comments so readers know it is a work in progress. ←
15:07:23 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:07:29 <Luc> ack satya
Luc Moreau: ack satya ←
15:07:29 <Zakim> +??P15
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15 ←
15:07:36 <jcheney> zakim, ??P15 is me
James Cheney: zakim, ??P15 is me ←
15:07:36 <Zakim> +jcheney; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jcheney; got it ←
15:07:39 <smiles> I take a similar position to Graham - none of my comments blockers
Simon Miles: I take a similar position to Graham - none of my comments blockers ←
15:07:46 <Zakim> +Yolanda
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yolanda ←
15:08:17 <Yogesh> luc: need to vote formally on release. this is the first docs being released by group. Need to contact W3C director and point to the resolution.
Luc Moreau: need to vote formally on release. this is the first docs being released by group. Need to contact W3C director and point to the resolution. ←
15:08:25 <Luc> proposed: release the data model document as a FPWD
PROPOSED: release the data model document as a FPWD ←
15:08:40 <sandro> +1 (W3C)
Sandro Hawke: +1 (W3C) ←
15:08:58 <ericstephan> +1 (PNNL)
Eric Stephan: +1 (PNNL) ←
15:08:58 <satya> +1 (IE)
Satya Sahoo: +1 (IE) ←
15:08:59 <khalidbelhajjame> +1 (University of Manchester)
Khalid Belhajjame: +1 (University of Manchester) ←
15:08:59 <smiles> +1 (IE)
Simon Miles: +1 (IE) ←
15:09:00 <Yogesh> +1 (IE)
+1 (IE) ←
15:09:02 <pgroth> +1 (VUA)
Paul Groth: +1 (VUA) ←
15:09:02 <GK> +1 (Oxford U)
Graham Klyne: +1 (Oxford U) ←
15:09:03 <Curt> +1 (NASA)
Curt Tilmes: +1 (NASA) ←
15:09:09 <jcheney> +1 (U Edinburgh)
James Cheney: +1 (U Edinburgh) ←
15:09:16 <Paolo> Hi everybody I'm on IRC but not phone - call overlap
Paolo Missier: Hi everybody I'm on IRC but not phone - call overlap ←
15:09:26 <Yogesh> sandro: please add affiliation in parantheses after +1. Invited experts to say IE
Sandro Hawke: please add affiliation in parantheses after +1. Invited experts to say IE ←
15:09:28 <dgarijo> +1
Daniel Garijo: +1 ←
15:09:38 <sandro> Yolanda: +1 (IE)
Yolanda Gil: +1 (IE) [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
15:09:42 <dgarijo> (UPM)
Daniel Garijo: (UPM) ←
15:10:11 <dgarijo> yea, sorry about that :(
Daniel Garijo: yea, sorry about that :( ←
15:10:23 <Luc> ACCEPTED: release the data model document as a FPWD
RESOLVED: release the data model document as a FPWD ←
15:10:41 <Zakim> +??P25
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P25 ←
15:10:49 <pgroth> cool
Paul Groth: cool ←
15:10:56 <Yogesh> sandro: need to send email to a list of people about this. will send link.
Sandro Hawke: need to send email to a list of people about this. will send link. ←
15:11:15 <GK> q+, to say: need to use ReSpect features to generate the HTML
Graham Klyne: q+, to say: need to use ReSpect features to generate the HTML ←
15:11:16 <Yogesh> sandro: editors need to check all links are good, valid CSS/html, etc.
Sandro Hawke: editors need to check all links are good, valid CSS/html, etc. ←
15:11:20 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:11:53 <Yogesh> GK: need to use ReSpect features to generate the HTML. If so, output should be compliant (but not broken links)
Graham Klyne: need to use ReSpec features to generate the HTML. If so, output should be compliant (but not broken links) ←
15:12:00 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:12:27 <Yogesh> luc: editors of other two docs, whats the timetable?
Luc Moreau: editors of other two docs, whats the timetable? ←
15:12:51 <Yogesh> GK: Paul will make a call
Graham Klyne: Paul will make a call ←
15:12:56 <sandro> Here are the full publication rules for a First Public Working Draft: http://www.w3.org/2005/07/pubrules?year=2011&uimode=filter&filter=Filter+pubrules&filterValues=form&docstatus=fpwd-wd-tr&patpol=w3c&rectrack=yes&normative=yes&prevrec=none#docreqs
Sandro Hawke: Here are the full publication rules for a First Public Working Draft: http://www.w3.org/2005/07/pubrules?year=2011&uimode=filter&filter=Filter+pubrules&filterValues=form&docstatus=fpwd-wd-tr&patpol=w3c&rectrack=yes&normative=yes&prevrec=none#docreqs ←
15:13:02 <GK> s/ReSpect/ReSpec/
15:13:11 <pgroth> i think we need some more time before the paq is ready
Paul Groth: i think we need some more time before the paq is ready ←
15:13:20 <pgroth> maybe 1 week or so
Paul Groth: maybe 1 week or so ←
15:13:28 <Yogesh> Luc: issue with entities that was postponed. has dust settled?
Luc Moreau: issue with entities that was postponed. has dust settled? ←
15:13:56 <sandro> Luc, the steps for publication approval are: http://services.w3.org/xslt?xmlfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/01-transitions.html&xslfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/transitions.xsl&docstatus=fpwd-wd-tr
Sandro Hawke: Luc, the steps for publication approval are: http://services.w3.org/xslt?xmlfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/01-transitions.html&xslfile=http://www.w3.org/2005/08/transitions.xsl&docstatus=fpwd-wd-tr ←
15:14:10 <Luc> Thanks Sandro
Luc Moreau: Thanks Sandro ←
15:14:11 <Yogesh> GK: has enough info to draft the changes to entities. Will be away for 2 weeks after this week. Did not expect to do substantial work on it after this point.
Graham Klyne: has enough info to draft the changes to entities. Will be away for 2 weeks after this week. Did not expect to do substantial work on it after this point. ←
15:14:34 <Yogesh> GK: the doc can go out without the extra drafting, but will defer to Paul's call
Graham Klyne: the doc can go out without the extra drafting, but will defer to Paul's call ←
15:14:46 <Yogesh> luc: will talk 1:1 with Paul to understand issue.
Luc Moreau: will talk 1:1 with Paul to understand issue. ←
15:15:06 <pgroth> thanks
Paul Groth: thanks ←
15:15:37 <Yogesh> satya: formal model substantial work done , thanks to stian, khalid, daniel.
Satya Sahoo: formal model substantial work done , thanks to stian, khalid, daniel. ←
15:15:51 <Yogesh> satya: will have a call nect Monday, but will be able to release before that
Satya Sahoo: will have a call nect Monday, but will be able to release before that ←
15:16:10 <Yogesh> satya: will send mail to luc, paul and sandro to see if its ready to release
Satya Sahoo: will send mail to luc, paul and sandro to see if its ready to release ←
15:16:16 <Yogesh> luc: decision has to be made by group
Luc Moreau: decision has to be made by group ←
15:16:34 <Yogesh> luc: WG should have time to go through it before decision is made
Luc Moreau: WG should have time to go through it before decision is made ←
15:16:45 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:16:47 <Yogesh> satya: wull send link to WG and we can vote on next week's call
Satya Sahoo: wull send link to WG and we can vote on next week's call ←
15:16:48 <pgroth> q+ to ask whether we should go for
Paul Groth: q+ to ask whether we should go for ←
15:17:00 <GK> @pgroth - I wanted to draft a section discussing contexts and Entities, and the that provenance assertions *could* be applicable to multiple Entities. Setting this out would make it easier to address some of the issues about contexts and anchors.
Graham Klyne: @pgroth - I wanted to draft a section discussing contexts and Entities, and the that provenance assertions *could* be applicable to multiple Entities. Setting this out would make it easier to address some of the issues about contexts and anchors. ←
15:17:12 <Luc> ack pgroth
Luc Moreau: ack pgroth ←
15:17:12 <Zakim> pgroth, you wanted to ask whether we should go for
Zakim IRC Bot: pgroth, you wanted to ask whether we should go for ←
15:17:21 <Luc> paul, what did you want say?
Luc Moreau: paul, what did you want say? ←
15:17:28 <pgroth> I'm not on the phone, but just wanted to ask whether we should wait for the ontology before releasing the conceptual model
Paul Groth: I'm not on the phone, but just wanted to ask whether we should wait for the ontology before releasing the conceptual model ←
15:17:32 <Zakim> + +1.512.524.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.512.524.aadd ←
15:17:53 <khalidbelhajjame> I don't think we should wait
Khalid Belhajjame: I don't think we should wait ←
15:17:57 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:18:03 <smiles> depends how long it takes to agree the formal model...
Simon Miles: depends how long it takes to agree the formal model... ←
15:18:04 <dgarijo> me neither. The ontology has to be still tested
Daniel Garijo: me neither. The ontology has to be still tested ←
15:18:18 <GK> That's a good question: AFAICT, developers (@stain?) are working from the ontology doc.
Graham Klyne: That's a good question: AFAICT, developers (@stain?) are working from the ontology doc. ←
15:18:26 <ericstephan> don't wait
Eric Stephan: don't wait ←
15:18:32 <Yogesh> luc: doesnt see a sense that we should wait
Luc Moreau: doesnt see a sense that we should wait ←
15:18:44 <pgroth> ok
Paul Groth: ok ←
15:18:50 <tlebo> comments on the conceptual model from the public will facilitate the OWL development.
Timothy Lebo: comments on the conceptual model from the public will facilitate the OWL development. ←
15:19:09 <pgroth> seems like there is consensus to release on the irc
Paul Groth: seems like there is consensus to release on the irc ←
15:19:13 <Yogesh> GK: unclear about this. Stian has been doing prototyping based on ontology, not conceptual. There may be complementary info. But should not unecessarily hold things up.
Graham Klyne: unclear about this. Stian has been doing prototyping based on ontology, not conceptual. There may be complementary info. But should not unecessarily hold things up. ←
15:19:30 <Yogesh> luc: stian was implementing in OWL to inform the OWL design
Luc Moreau: stian was implementing in OWL to inform the OWL design ←
15:19:38 <Yogesh> luc: stian, do you have comments?
Luc Moreau: stian, do you have comments? ←
15:19:56 <Yogesh> who is here?
who is here? ←
15:19:59 <Yogesh> zakim, who is here?
zakim, who is here? ←
15:19:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vinh, Yogesh, Curt_Tilmes, dgarijo, Luc, +1.509.967.aabb, ??P8, ??P4, +1.315.330.aacc, Satya_Sahoo, ??P46, khalidbelhajjame, Sandro, jcheney, Yolanda, ??P25,
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Vinh, Yogesh, Curt_Tilmes, dgarijo, Luc, +1.509.967.aabb, ??P8, ??P4, +1.315.330.aacc, Satya_Sahoo, ??P46, khalidbelhajjame, Sandro, jcheney, Yolanda, ??P25, ←
15:20:03 <Zakim> ... +1.512.524.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.512.524.aadd ←
15:20:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see jorn, jcheney, khalidbelhajjame, GK, tlebo, Paolo, StephenCresswell, satya, smiles, dgarijo, Curt, ericstephan, Yogesh, pgroth, Vinh, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, trackbot,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see jorn, jcheney, khalidbelhajjame, GK, tlebo, Paolo, StephenCresswell, satya, smiles, dgarijo, Curt, ericstephan, Yogesh, pgroth, Vinh, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, trackbot, ←
15:20:06 <Zakim> ... stain, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: ... stain, sandro ←
15:20:36 <Yogesh> luc: will take a few days before it is released. there will be an announcement that other docs will follow. we can proceed wth conceptual model and OWL spec will be ready soon
Luc Moreau: will take a few days before it is released. there will be an announcement that other docs will follow. we can proceed wth conceptual model and OWL spec will be ready soon ←
15:20:42 <dgarijo> @GK: @stain used the ontology to test it, yes. But he made also based on the definitions of the conceptual model, to help us improve it :)
Daniel Garijo: @GK: @stain used the ontology to test it, yes. But he made also based on the definitions of the conceptual model, to help us improve it :) ←
15:20:44 <Luc> Topic: Connection Task Force
Summary: Eric presented the Connection Task Force informal report. The group is invited to read the document and feedback comments.
<luc>Summary: Eric presented the Connection Task Force informal report. The group is invited to read the document and feedback comments.
15:21:04 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Connection_Task_Force_Informal_Report
Luc Moreau: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Connection_Task_Force_Informal_Report ←
15:21:21 <Yogesh> ericstephan: 1st F2F meeting had preliminary thoughts.
Eric Stephan: 1st F2F meeting had preliminary thoughts. ←
15:21:52 <Yogesh> ericstephan: several suggestions on other communities, standards bodies inside W3C and other special interest areas
Eric Stephan: several suggestions on other communities, standards bodies inside W3C and other special interest areas ←
15:22:31 <Yogesh> ...Agreed that will develop a report and provide connections.
...Agreed that will develop a report and provide connections. ←
15:22:32 <Yogesh> ...Link is available online that shows the degrees of connections.
...Link is available online that shows the degrees of connections. ←
15:22:38 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:22:40 <Yogesh> ...Please thae a look and give feedback.
...Please take a look and give feedback. ←
15:22:54 <Yogesh> s/thae/take/
15:23:21 <Yogesh> luc: Nice to see potential impact on other commnities. What was rationale?
Luc Moreau: Nice to see potential impact on other commnities. What was rationale? ←
15:23:56 <Yogesh> ericstephan: "Connectivity Approaches to Community " summarizes ratonale. 1 star means we know them, but they dont know us.
Eric Stephan: "Connectivity Approaches to Community " summarizes ratonale. 1 star means we know them, but they dont know us. ←
15:24:20 <Yogesh> ...4 stars means we know a name/person who writes a section for us.
...4 stars means we know a name/person who writes a section for us. ←
15:24:23 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:24:23 <GK> q+ to ask if you are looking for additional help to build more definite links with lower star ratings; more generally, what are the specific actions you asosciate with different ratings?
Graham Klyne: q+ to ask if you are looking for additional help to build more definite links with lower star ratings; more generally, what are the specific actions you asosciate with different ratings? ←
15:24:28 <Luc> ack gk
Luc Moreau: ack gk ←
15:24:28 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to ask if you are looking for additional help to build more definite links with lower star ratings; more generally, what are the specific actions you asosciate with
Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to ask if you are looking for additional help to build more definite links with lower star ratings; more generally, what are the specific actions you asosciate with ←
15:24:31 <Zakim> ... different ratings?
Zakim IRC Bot: ... different ratings? ←
15:25:05 <Yogesh> GK: are you looking to strengthen the connections for low stars?
Graham Klyne: are you looking to strengthen the connections for low stars? ←
15:25:21 <smiles> q+
Simon Miles: q+ ←
15:25:57 <Zakim> -??P25
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P25 ←
15:26:11 <Yogesh> ericstephan: stars are access to community. Completed the report after F2F but this is living doc that will add connections and increase stars.
Eric Stephan: stars are access to community. Completed the report after F2F but this is living doc that will add connections and increase stars. ←
15:26:28 <Zakim> +??P25
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P25 ←
15:26:32 <jorn> zakim, ??p25 is me
Jörn Hees: zakim, ??p25 is me ←
15:26:32 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
15:26:51 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:26:55 <Yogesh> Kai has been collaborating to get info
Kai has been collaborating to get info ←
15:28:12 <Yogesh> eGovenment group has an interest in provenance.
eGovenment group has an interest in provenance. ←
15:28:55 <Yogesh> stephen: have been on their conference call. They are interested in recommending an approach.
Stephen Cresswell: have been on their conference call. They are interested in recommending an approach. ←
15:29:56 <Luc> ack smiles
Luc Moreau: ack smiles ←
15:30:05 <Zakim> -Yogesh
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yogesh ←
15:30:14 <Zakim> +Yogesh
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yogesh ←
15:31:50 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:32:13 <Zakim> +??P40
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P40 ←
15:32:31 <Paolo> zakim, ??P40 is me
Paolo Missier: zakim, ??P40 is me ←
15:32:31 <Zakim> +Paolo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Paolo; got it ←
15:32:58 <Zakim> - +1.512.524.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.512.524.aadd ←
15:33:23 <Yogesh> sorry, my IRC has been giving problems
sorry, my IRC has been giving problems ←
15:33:54 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:34:12 <Luc> Topic: Primer
Summary: Yolanda has joined Simon as editor of the primer. They will prepare a plan of actions, which they will present next week.
<Luc>Summary: Yolanda has joined Simon as editor of the primer. They will prepare a plan of actions, which they will present next week.
15:34:32 <Yogesh>smiles: put the skeleton together
Simon Miles: put the skeleton together ←
15:34:37 <smiles> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/primer/Primer.html
Simon Miles: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/primer/Primer.html ←
15:34:53 <Yogesh> looking for comments. Yolanda will coedit the primer. Will be talking tomorrow.
looking for comments. Yolanda will coedit the primer. Will be talking tomorrow. ←
15:35:11 <Yogesh> ...Yolanda suggested starting points for people from different perspectives.
...Yolanda suggested starting points for people from different perspectives. ←
15:35:36 <Yogesh> ...Others can volunteer next week to contribute to primer.
...Others can volunteer next week to contribute to primer. ←
15:35:47 <Yogesh> ...Will set out well defined actvities for them.
...Will set out well defined actvities for them. ←
15:36:05 <GK> @smiles: might want to copy overview diagram from the model doc? I think it bears repeating :)
Graham Klyne: @smiles: might want to copy overview diagram from the model doc? I think it bears repeating :) ←
15:36:06 <Yogesh> ..Expect a primer by end of Oct as a draft for WG to consider.
..Expect a primer by end of Oct as a draft for WG to consider. ←
15:36:12 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:36:16 <Yogesh> Luc: Will have primer agenda for next week.
Luc Moreau: Will have primer agenda for next week. ←
15:36:39 <Yogesh> smiles: May not be able to make it next week. Will check if Yolanda can make it. Will send email.
Simon Miles: May not be able to make it next week. Will check if Yolanda can make it. Will send email. ←
15:36:39 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:36:50 <Yogesh> Yolanda: will be able to join next week.
Yolanda Gil: will be able to join next week. ←
15:36:56 <Luc> topic: Formal model document
Summary: Satya updated us on the progress of the formal model document. A number of topics were discussed: subclassing, role, account, and named graph. Tim will explain how the concept of account can be captured in the ontology; this should help formulate requirements for named graphs. The importance of test/use cases was noted, and the team is encouraged to keep on building a catalogue of such cases.
<Luc>Summary: Satya updated us on the progress of the formal model document. A number of topics were discussed: subclassing, role, account, and named graph. Tim will explain how the concept of account can be captured in the ontology; this should help formulate requirements for named graphs. The importance of test/use cases was noted, and the team is encouraged to keep on building a catalogue of such cases.
15:37:04 <satya> I guess the current structure of the Primer is initial version - so will comment later
Satya Sahoo: I guess the current structure of the Primer is initial version - so will comment later ←
15:37:59 <Yogesh> satya: had feedback. Luc raised an issue. satya has 2 sections to look into: extension section and formal semantics
Satya Sahoo: had feedback. Luc raised an issue. satya has 2 sections to look into: extension section and formal semantics ←
15:38:23 <Yogesh> ...will send email on Monday for WG to review
...will send email on Monday for WG to review ←
15:38:26 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:39:36 <Yogesh> satya: Will try to release a first version that may change based on feedback
Satya Sahoo: Will try to release a first version that may change based on feedback ←
15:40:13 <dgarijo> +q
Daniel Garijo: +q ←
15:40:30 <Yogesh> ...Discusssions on provenance container and entity and subclasses has led to changes. But cant provide a timeline for fixed ontology till a formal conceptual model is in place.
...Discusssions on provenance container and entity and subclasses has led to changes. But cant provide a timeline for fixed ontology till a formal conceptual model is in place. ←
15:40:33 <Luc> ack d
Luc Moreau: ack d ←
15:40:34 <GK> q+ to ask if there's a criterion for deciding what subclasses to define
Graham Klyne: q+ to ask if there's a criterion for deciding what subclasses to define ←
15:40:56 <Yogesh> dgarijo: Converging to stablility. Testing usecases.
Daniel Garijo: Converging to stablility. Testing usecases. ←
15:41:00 <Luc> ack gk
Luc Moreau: ack gk ←
15:41:00 <Zakim> GK, you wanted to ask if there's a criterion for deciding what subclasses to define
Zakim IRC Bot: GK, you wanted to ask if there's a criterion for deciding what subclasses to define ←
15:41:55 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
15:42:05 <Zakim> +??P25
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P25 ←
15:42:21 <Luc> yogesh, are you still here?
Luc Moreau: yogesh, are you still here? ←
15:42:32 <Yogesh> satya: agrees with GK. If we do not assert subclass of relationship, then we have limit entailments. Tradeoff.
Satya Sahoo: agrees with GK. If we do not assert subclass of relationship, then we have limit entailments. Tradeoff. ←
15:42:45 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:42:46 <Yogesh> ...We can keep all of them for now without asserting subclass of relationship.
...We can keep all of them for now without asserting subclass of relationship. ←
15:43:40 <Yogesh> satya: Have been discussing the use of roles. Associating qualifiers wth relationships, or with Process executions was discussed.
Satya Sahoo: Have been discussing the use of roles. Associating qualifiers wth relationships, or with Process executions was discussed. ←
15:44:32 <Yogesh> ...For now, agreed to use roles until there are clear cases highlighting its shortcomings.
...For now, agreed to use roles until there are clear cases highlighting its shortcomings. ←
15:44:54 <Yogesh> ...Similarly, time of process start and stop are assertions or qualifiers on the process entities, not relationships.
...Similarly, time of process start and stop are assertions or qualifiers on the process entities, not relationships. ←
15:45:29 <Yogesh> luc: Someone mentioned usecases being built. Is there a catalog? All cant go into fomal doc but may be useful to test interop.
Luc Moreau: Someone mentioned usecases being built. Is there a catalog? All cant go into fomal doc but may be useful to test interop. ←
15:45:47 <Yogesh> satya: Using crime scene scenario and the one stain has done.
Satya Sahoo: Using crime scene scenario and the one stain has done. ←
15:45:51 <tlebo> +q
Timothy Lebo: +q ←
15:46:18 <Yogesh> Luc: Is there something even smaller? Entity between two process executions with roles
Luc Moreau: Is there something even smaller? Entity between two process executions with roles ←
15:46:35 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:46:36 <tlebo> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/tip/ontology/components is collecting the individual OWL axioms and collects examples
Timothy Lebo: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/tip/ontology/components is collecting the individual OWL axioms and collects examples ←
15:46:40 <Luc> ack tl
Luc Moreau: ack tl ←
15:46:43 <khalidbelhajjame> Stian has already encode the workflow provenance example.
Khalid Belhajjame: Stian has already encode the workflow provenance example. ←
15:46:43 <Yogesh> satya: Corolla car example would be useful
Satya Sahoo: Corolla car example would be useful ←
15:46:48 <khalidbelhajjame> It is in the mercurial
Khalid Belhajjame: It is in the mercurial ←
15:47:02 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:47:33 <Yogesh> Luc: can you put this link in the top level page?
Luc Moreau: can you put this link in the top level page? ←
15:47:37 <GK> I can see the readme
Graham Klyne: I can see the readme ←
15:47:40 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:48:12 <Yogesh> Luc: postponed discussions on accounts?
Luc Moreau: postponed discussions on accounts? ←
15:48:36 <Yogesh> satya: Still some discussion between account, provenance collections and containers.
Satya Sahoo: Still some discussion between account, provenance collections and containers. ←
15:48:50 <Yogesh> ...Can definitely model container right now. Are accounts distinct?
...Can definitely model container right now. Are accounts distinct? ←
15:48:56 <Yogesh> Luc: Yes, in the conceptual model.
Luc Moreau: Yes, in the conceptual model. ←
15:49:28 <Paolo> Accounts can be nested, for example
Paolo Missier: Accounts can be nested, for example ←
15:49:38 <dgarijo> I saw accounts as something more specific than a prov container.
Daniel Garijo: I saw accounts as something more specific than a prov container. ←
15:49:43 <Yogesh> satya: can we rename container as something else?
Satya Sahoo: can we rename container as something else? ←
15:50:03 <dgarijo> so a container could, for instance, contain several accounts
Daniel Garijo: so a container could, for instance, contain several accounts ←
15:50:21 <Yogesh> Luc: named graphs are scoping construct for triples with metadata associated. But construct is not there is OWL.
Luc Moreau: named graphs are scoping construct for triples with metadata associated. But construct is not there is OWL. ←
15:50:26 <tlebo> named graphs can be described in OWL using http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql-service-description#
Timothy Lebo: named graphs can be described in OWL using http://www.w3.org/ns/sparql-service-description# ←
15:50:35 <khalidbelhajjame> I would suggest to keep them separate, while ProvenanceContainer is a (Random) bundle of assertions, accounts should be used when there is scoping. So, although structurally they are similar, semantically they are not.
Khalid Belhajjame: I would suggest to keep them separate, while ProvenanceContainer is a (Random) bundle of assertions, accounts should be used when there is scoping. So, although structurally they are similar, semantically they are not. ←
15:50:43 <Yogesh> ...How can we express accounts without named graphs in OWL?
...How can we express accounts without named graphs in OWL? ←
15:50:52 <Yogesh> satya: we'll need a class for that in OWL.
Satya Sahoo: we'll need a class for that in OWL. ←
15:50:54 <dgarijo> @khalid: +1
Daniel Garijo: @khalid: +1 ←
15:51:11 <Yogesh> ...Containers are similar to scoping in named graphs.
...Containers are similar to scoping in named graphs. ←
15:51:34 <dgarijo> @khalid: but they are not disjoint. A container can be an account.
Daniel Garijo: @khalid: but they are not disjoint. A container can be an account. ←
15:51:40 <GK> I think it will depend very much on how the RDF group introduce named graphs...
Graham Klyne: I think it will depend very much on how the RDF group introduce named graphs... ←
15:51:42 <Yogesh> ...Containers bundle assertions and we can associate metadata with the cotainers.
...Containers bundle assertions and we can associate metadata with the cotainers. ←
15:51:48 <khalidbelhajjame> @daniel, yes
Khalid Belhajjame: @daniel, yes ←
15:51:56 <tlebo> q+
Timothy Lebo: q+ ←
15:52:10 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:52:13 <Yogesh> Luc: How will container class be instantiated into named graphs in RDF?
Luc Moreau: How will container class be instantiated into named graphs in RDF? ←
15:52:15 <tlebo> http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-service-description describes named graphs
Timothy Lebo: http://www.w3.org/TR/sparql11-service-description describes named graphs ←
15:52:18 <GK> ... is as literals, then they can appear ibn OWL datatype properties, but the embedded RDF semantics may be opaque
Graham Klyne: ... is as literals, then they can appear ibn OWL datatype properties, but the embedded RDF semantics may be opaque ←
15:52:38 <tlebo> naming named graphs within a SPARQL endpoint (an approach): https://github.com/timrdf/csv2rdf4lod-automation/wiki/Naming-sparql-service-description%27s-sd%3ANamedGraph
Timothy Lebo: naming named graphs within a SPARQL endpoint (an approach): https://github.com/timrdf/csv2rdf4lod-automation/wiki/Naming-sparql-service-description%27s-sd%3ANamedGraph ←
15:52:46 <dgarijo> we can allways avoid usinog named graphs in owl: create class account and a relationship of containment to each of the other concepts.
Daniel Garijo: we can allways avoid usinog named graphs in owl: create class account and a relationship of containment to each of the other concepts. ←
15:53:00 <GK> ... if datasets (ala SPARQL) then I'm not sure how that would carry over.
Graham Klyne: ... if datasets (ala SPARQL) then I'm not sure how that would carry over. ←
15:53:29 <dgarijo> +q
Daniel Garijo: +q ←
15:53:32 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:53:33 <Yogesh> satya: no construct for provenance assertion in model. Should we model it in ontology?
Satya Sahoo: no construct for provenance assertion in model. Should we model it in ontology? ←
15:53:40 <Luc> ack tl
Luc Moreau: ack tl ←
15:54:01 <khalidbelhajjame> Ok, I see your point Satya. In that case, we can just explain that in the HTML document without adding explicit classes in the OWL ontology
Khalid Belhajjame: Ok, I see your point Satya. In that case, we can just explain that in the HTML document without adding explicit classes in the OWL ontology ←
15:54:03 <GK> Yes, "Provenance assertion" is an ASN construct; representation in RDF is just an RDF assertion, I think.
Graham Klyne: Yes, "Provenance assertion" is an ASN construct; representation in RDF is just an RDF assertion, I think. ←
15:54:10 <Yogesh> tlebo: Variety of work is in draft, like sparql endpoint
Timothy Lebo: Variety of work is in draft, like sparql endpoint ←
15:54:21 <Yogesh> ...We can extend this vocabulary.
...We can extend this vocabulary. ←
15:54:46 <Yogesh> Luc: will you have a proposal on accounts and containers by the time the doc is released as FPWD?
Luc Moreau: will you have a proposal on accounts and containers by the time the doc is released as FPWD? ←
15:54:54 <satya> @Khalid, GK: +1
Satya Sahoo: @Khalid, GK: +1 ←
15:54:55 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:55:01 <Yogesh> tleb: Will have a first draft on it.
Timothy Lebo: Will have a first draft on it. ←
15:55:02 <Luc> ack dg
Luc Moreau: ack dg ←
15:55:22 <tlebo> dgarijo: make prov:Account (don't use named graphs)
Daniel Garijo: make prov:Account (don't use named graphs) [ Scribe Assist by Timothy Lebo ] ←
15:55:46 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:55:57 <Yogesh> dgarijo: Named graphs are not yet standarized. Not helpful to reply on it.
Daniel Garijo: Named graphs are not yet standarized. Not helpful to reply on it. ←
15:56:06 <tlebo> sd:NamedGraph will need to be a subclass prov:Account - since accounts can be sitting elsewhere.
Simon Dobson: NamedGraph will need to be a subclass prov:Account - since accounts can be sitting elsewhere. [ Scribe Assist by Timothy Lebo ] ←
15:56:10 <tlebo> q+
Timothy Lebo: q+ ←
15:56:52 <GK> Ah... with named graphs, can use owl:import?
Graham Klyne: Ah... with named graphs, can use owl:import? ←
15:56:55 <satya> q+
Satya Sahoo: q+ ←
15:57:00 <tlebo> q-
Timothy Lebo: q- ←
15:57:01 <Luc> ack tl
Luc Moreau: ack tl ←
15:57:21 <Yogesh> satya: defers to ntology telecon, but what does sitting "elsewhere" mean?
Satya Sahoo: defers to ntology telecon, but what does sitting "elsewhere" mean? ←
15:57:33 <Zakim> -??P25
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P25 ←
15:57:50 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:57:55 <Luc> ack saty
Luc Moreau: ack saty ←
15:57:58 <tlebo> satya: can you capture your question?
Satya Sahoo: can you capture your question? [ Scribe Assist by Timothy Lebo ] ←
15:58:57 <Yogesh> Luc: Will be good to see a proposal for named graphs and go to RDF group and ask if they can support this
Luc Moreau: Will be good to see a proposal for named graphs and go to RDF group and ask if they can support this ←
15:59:08 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:59:28 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
Zakim IRC Bot: -Satya_Sahoo ←
15:59:28 <Yogesh> list attendees
list attendees ←
15:59:29 <Zakim> - +1.315.330.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.315.330.aacc ←
15:59:29 <Zakim> -Yolanda
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yolanda ←
15:59:30 <Zakim> -??P46
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P46 ←
15:59:31 <Zakim> -dgarijo
Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo ←
15:59:32 <Zakim> -Paolo
Zakim IRC Bot: -Paolo ←
15:59:32 <Zakim> - +1.509.967.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.509.967.aabb ←
15:59:33 <Zakim> -jcheney
Zakim IRC Bot: -jcheney ←
15:59:40 <satya> Tm, What is the construct that we can use for set of provenance assertions other than named graphs
Satya Sahoo: tim, What is the construct that we can use for set of provenance assertions other than named graphs ←
15:59:42 <Luc> yogesh, i ll do the necessary incantations from here
Luc Moreau: yogesh, i ll do the necessary incantations from here ←
15:59:47 <Yogesh> thanks luc
thanks luc ←
15:59:49 <satya> s/Tm/tim
15:59:51 <Zakim> -Vinh
Zakim IRC Bot: -Vinh ←
15:59:53 <Zakim> -Curt_Tilmes
Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt_Tilmes ←
15:59:55 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
15:59:56 <Zakim> -khalidbelhajjame
Zakim IRC Bot: -khalidbelhajjame ←
15:59:59 <Zakim> -??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P8 ←
16:00:00 <Zakim> -Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc ←
16:00:01 <Luc> rrsagent, set log public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, set log public ←
16:00:07 <Luc> thanks for scribing, yogesh
Luc Moreau: thanks for scribing, yogesh ←
16:00:14 <Luc> rrsagent, draft minutes
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:00:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-prov-minutes.html Luc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2011/09/29-prov-minutes.html Luc ←
16:00:14 <Yogesh> zakim, part
zakim, part ←
16:00:19 <Zakim> -??P4
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P4 ←
16:00:25 <Zakim> leaving. As of this point the attendees were Vinh, Yogesh, Curt_Tilmes, dgarijo, Luc, +1.509.967.aabb, +1.315.330.aacc, Satya_Sahoo, Sandro, khalidbelhajjame, jcheney, Yolanda,
Zakim IRC Bot: leaving. As of this point the attendees were Vinh, Yogesh, Curt_Tilmes, dgarijo, Luc, +1.509.967.aabb, +1.315.330.aacc, Satya_Sahoo, Sandro, khalidbelhajjame, jcheney, Yolanda, ←
16:00:30 <Zakim> ... +1.512.524.aadd, jorn, Paolo
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.512.524.aadd, jorn, Paolo ←
16:00:30 <Luc> trackbot, end telcon
Luc Moreau: trackbot, end telcon ←
Formatted by CommonScribe