Last week's minutes were approved.
Provenance Implementation and Test Cases
Lena updated the group on the second questionnaire. The working group is invited to comment on the second questionnaire before the next Aug 25 telcon.
Kai reported on progress, following Monday's teleconference on connection. The aim is still to produce an report by Aug 25; a structure has been outlined.
Yogesh presented his work on applying the PAQ approach to the Access Scenario developed at the face to face meeting. This work resulted in a series of comments, for consideration by the PAQ document editors.
Satya reported on progress on the ontology. The issue of uniformity of names was raised (choice of past or present tense, inclusion or not of a verb). Action on Luc to Poll the group about the conventions to follow.
Paul wrote a section on shortcuts and extensions. The group is invited to comment on this section in the usual way.
14:31:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-prov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2011/08/18-prov-irc ←
14:31:40 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs world ←
14:31:42 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be ←
14:31:42 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot ←
14:31:43 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:31:43 <trackbot> Date: 18 August 2011
14:31:51 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV
Luc Moreau: Zakim, this will be PROV ←
14:31:51 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 29 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 29 minutes ←
14:35:28 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.08.18
14:35:44 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
14:35:53 <Luc> Scribe: satya
(Scribe set to Satya Sahoo)
14:36:06 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public
Luc Moreau: rrsagent, make logs public ←
14:46:18 <Luc> Regrets: Khalid, Stephan Zednik
14:56:21 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
(No events recorded for 20 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started ←
14:56:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:56:25 <Zakim> +Curt
Zakim IRC Bot: +Curt ←
14:56:51 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
14:57:20 <Zakim> +??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←
14:57:36 <Zakim> +satya
Zakim IRC Bot: +satya ←
14:57:37 <Luc> zakim, +??P1 is me
Luc Moreau: zakim, +??P1 is me ←
14:57:38 <Zakim> sorry, Luc, I do not recognize a party named '+??P1'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Luc, I do not recognize a party named '+??P1' ←
14:57:44 <Luc> zakim, ??P1 is me
Luc Moreau: zakim, ??P1 is me ←
14:57:44 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Luc; got it ←
14:57:51 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here? ←
14:57:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Curt, Luc, satya
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Curt, Luc, satya ←
14:57:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see Curt, jorn, satya, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, edsu, stain, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Curt, jorn, satya, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, edsu, stain, trackbot ←
14:58:11 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
14:58:24 <jorn> zakim, ??p22 is me
Jörn Hees: zakim, ??p22 is me ←
14:58:24 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
14:58:32 <Luc> topic: Admin
Summary: Last week's minutes were approved.
<luc>Summary: Last week's minutes were approved.
15:00:08 <Zakim> + +1.315.330.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.315.330.aaaa ←
15:00:27 <Zakim> +??P33
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P33 ←
15:00:41 <smiles> zakim, ??P33 is me
Simon Miles: zakim, ??P33 is me ←
15:00:41 <Zakim> +??P35
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P35 ←
15:00:50 <Zakim> + +1.540.449.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.540.449.aabb ←
15:00:56 <Zakim> +smiles; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +smiles; got it ←
15:01:13 <Zakim> +??P41
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P41 ←
15:01:20 <Yogesh> zakim, +1.540.449 is me
Yogesh Simmhan: zakim, +1.540.449 is me ←
15:01:27 <Zakim> +Yogesh; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yogesh; got it ←
15:01:29 <Zakim> +??P45
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P45 ←
15:01:38 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here? ←
15:01:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see Curt, Luc, satya, jorn, +1.315.330.aaaa, smiles, ??P35, Yogesh, ??P41, ??P45
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Curt, Luc, satya, jorn, +1.315.330.aaaa, smiles, ??P35, Yogesh, ??P41, ??P45 ←
15:01:44 <Lena> zakim, ??P45 is me
Helena Deus: zakim, ??P45 is me ←
15:01:49 <Zakim> +Yolanda
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yolanda ←
15:01:55 <Zakim> On IRC I see StephenCresswell, Lena, tlebo, dcorsar, smiles, Yogesh, Curt, jorn, satya, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, edsu, stain, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see StephenCresswell, Lena, tlebo, dcorsar, smiles, Yogesh, Curt, jorn, satya, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, edsu, stain, trackbot ←
15:02:03 <Zakim> +Lena; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Lena; got it ←
15:02:03 <Lena> zakim, +??P45 is me
Helena Deus: zakim, +??P45 is me ←
15:02:04 <tlebo> Zakim, 315 is me
Timothy Lebo: Zakim, 315 is me ←
15:02:18 <Luc> @stain, are you ready to scribe? everything set up for you
Luc Moreau: @stain, are you ready to scribe? everything set up for you ←
15:02:20 <Zakim> sorry, Lena, I do not recognize a party named '+??P45'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Lena, I do not recognize a party named '+??P45' ←
15:02:23 <Zakim> sorry, tlebo, I do not recognize a party named '315'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, tlebo, I do not recognize a party named '315' ←
15:02:26 <tlebo> Zakim, aaaa is me
Timothy Lebo: Zakim, aaaa is me ←
15:02:52 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +tlebo; got it ←
15:03:45 <Zakim> + +1.858.210.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.858.210.aacc ←
15:04:06 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
Luc Moreau: zakim, who is here? ←
15:04:37 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, who's here? ←
15:04:41 <Zakim> +??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←
15:04:45 <kai> zakim, ??P7 is me.
Kai Eckert: zakim, ??P7 is me. ←
15:04:46 <satya> scribe Satya
scribe Satya ←
15:05:07 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: +OpenLink_Software ←
15:05:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see Curt, Luc, satya, jorn, tlebo, smiles, ??P35, Yogesh, ??P41, Lena, Yolanda, +1.858.210.aacc, ??P7, OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Curt, Luc, satya, jorn, tlebo, smiles, ??P35, Yogesh, ??P41, Lena, Yolanda, +1.858.210.aacc, ??P7, OpenLink_Software ←
15:05:25 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
Ted Thibodeau: Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me ←
15:05:25 <MacTed> zakim, mute me
Ted Thibodeau: zakim, mute me ←
15:05:45 <satya> Luc: Covering the agenda items: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.08.18
Luc Moreau: Covering the agenda items: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2011.08.18 ←
15:05:49 <Luc> PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of Aug 11 telecon
PROPOSED: to accept the minutes of Aug 11 telecon ←
15:05:59 <smiles> +1
Simon Miles: +1 ←
15:06:00 <satya> +1
+1 ←
15:06:02 <Curt> +1
Curt Tilmes: +1 ←
15:06:02 <kai> +1
Kai Eckert: +1 ←
15:06:06 <dgarijo> +1
Daniel Garijo: +1 ←
15:06:07 <Yogesh> +1
Yogesh Simmhan: +1 ←
15:06:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see Curt, Luc, satya, jorn, tlebo, smiles, ??P35, Yogesh, ??P41, Lena, Yolanda, +1.858.210.aacc, ??P7, OpenLink_Software
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Curt, Luc, satya, jorn, tlebo, smiles, ??P35, Yogesh, ??P41, Lena, Yolanda, +1.858.210.aacc, ??P7, OpenLink_Software ←
15:06:10 <dcorsar> +1
David Corsar: +1 ←
15:06:25 <Zakim> +kai; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +kai; got it ←
15:06:31 <Zakim> +??P2
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P2 ←
15:06:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see dgarijo, kai, StephenCresswell, Lena, tlebo, dcorsar, smiles, Yogesh, Curt, jorn, satya, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, edsu, stain, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see dgarijo, kai, StephenCresswell, Lena, tlebo, dcorsar, smiles, Yogesh, Curt, jorn, satya, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, MacTed, edsu, stain, trackbot ←
15:06:44 <Luc> ACCEPTED: the minutes of Aug 11 telecon
RESOLVED: the minutes of Aug 11 telecon ←
15:06:48 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MacTed; got it ←
15:06:50 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MacTed should now be muted ←
15:06:58 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P2 is me
Daniel Garijo: Zakim, ??P2 is me ←
15:07:01 <satya> Luc: A number of action items are open
Luc Moreau: A number of action items are open ←
15:07:20 <Zakim> -??P2
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P2 ←
15:07:23 <satya> Luc: Action 15 to Stephan
Luc Moreau: ACTION-15 to Stephan ←
15:07:50 <Zakim> +??P4
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P4 ←
15:08:06 <satya> Lena: Stephan has completed the action item
Helena Deus: Stephan has completed the action item ←
15:08:18 <Helena> 2nd iteration to questionnaire: http://bit.ly/o7nR4n.
Helena Deus: 2nd iteration to questionnaire: http://bit.ly/o7nR4n. ←
15:08:24 <Zakim> I already had ??P2 as ??P2, dgarijo
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P2 as ??P2, dgarijo ←
15:08:39 <satya> Luc: Action 34 to James open
Luc Moreau: ACTION-34 to James open ←
15:09:25 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P4 is me
Daniel Garijo: Zakim, ??P4 is me ←
15:09:28 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +dgarijo; got it ←
15:09:33 <satya> Luc: Action to Paul and Graham to clarify difference between resource and entity
Luc Moreau: Action to Paul and Graham to clarify difference between resource and entity ←
15:09:34 <Luc> TOPIC: Provenance Implementation and Test Cases
Summary: Lena updated the group on the second questionnaire. The working group is invited to comment on the second questionnaire before the next Aug 25 telcon.
<Luc> Summary: Lena updated the group on the second questionnaire. The working group is invited to comment on the second questionnaire before the next Aug 25 telcon.
15:10:04 <satya> Luc: Update on Implementation task force
Luc Moreau: Update on Implementation task force ←
15:11:13 <satya> Lena: Updated the questionaire to clarify the following points: (a) define meaning of provenance, (b) privacy issue associated with response, (c) granularity of provenance
Helena Deus: Updated the questionaire to clarify the following points: (a) define meaning of provenance, (b) privacy issue associated with response, (c) granularity of provenance ←
15:11:18 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:12:24 <satya> Lena: Next step is to send the new questionaire to respondents of the first questionaire
Helena Deus: Next step is to send the new questionaire to respondents of the first questionaire ←
15:12:44 <satya> @Luc: James sent an email indicating he has completed his action item
@Luc: James sent an email indicating he has completed his action item ←
15:13:24 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
15:13:31 <satya> Lena: The working group is invited to respond to the second questionaire before the next Aug 25 telcon
Helena Deus: The working group is invited to respond to the second questionaire before the next Aug 25 telcon ←
15:13:39 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
15:13:39 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:13:46 <jorn> zakim, ??p21 is me
Jörn Hees: zakim, ??p21 is me ←
15:13:46 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
15:14:10 <satya> Luc: Can the issue raised by Deborah be accomodated?
Luc Moreau: Can the issue raised by Deborah be accomodated? ←
15:14:16 <satya> Lena: It can be accomodated
Helena Deus: It can be accomodated ←
15:14:07 <Luc> Topic: Connection Task Force
Summary: Kai reported on progress, following Monday's teleconference on connection. The aim is still to produce an report by Aug 25; a structure has been outlined.
<Luc>Summary: Kai reported on progress, following Monday's teleconference on connection. The aim is still to produce an report by Aug 25; a structure has been outlined.
15:14:29 <satya> Luc: Update from the Connection task force
Luc Moreau: Update from the Connection task force ←
15:14:40 <kai> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Connection_Task_Force_Informal_Report
Kai Eckert: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Connection_Task_Force_Informal_Report ←
15:15:19 <satya> Kai: Summarizing information about groups who may be interested in working with the Provenance WG
Kai Eckert: Summarizing information about groups who may be interested in working with the Provenance WG ←
15:16:02 <satya> Kai: A telcon was held on Monday by connection task force
Kai Eckert: A telcon was held on Monday by connection task force ←
15:16:16 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:16:18 <smiles> q+
Simon Miles: q+ ←
15:16:34 <satya> Kai: Working to create a formal report
Kai Eckert: Working to create a formal report ←
15:16:40 <satya> Luc: What are the next steps
Luc Moreau: What are the next steps ←
15:17:18 <Zakim> + +1.518.763.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.763.aadd ←
15:17:37 <satya> Kai: Weekly telcon will be scheduled for discussion and work towards to create a formal document
Kai Eckert: Weekly telcon will be scheduled for discussion and work towards to create a formal document ←
15:18:01 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:18:08 <Luc> ack smiles
Luc Moreau: ack smiles ←
15:18:09 <satya> Kai: A draft report will be available by August 25 for comments
Kai Eckert: A draft report will be available by August 25 for comments ←
15:18:35 <StephenCresswell> +q
Stephen Cresswell: +q ←
15:18:57 <satya> Smiles: Discussed with ? group and reviewed the 5 points identified by the connection task force
Simon Miles: Discussed with ? group and reviewed the 5 points identified by the connection task force ←
15:19:34 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:19:36 <smiles> W3C semantic news community group
Simon Miles: W3C semantic news community group ←
15:19:47 <satya> Smiles: In regular contact with W3C semantic news community group
Simon Miles: In regular contact with W3C semantic news community group ←
15:20:18 <smiles> @satya actually irregular :-)
Simon Miles: @satya actually irregular :-) ←
15:20:39 <Zakim> +??P29
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P29 ←
15:20:49 <kai> q+
Kai Eckert: q+ ←
15:20:58 <Luc> ack step
Luc Moreau: ack step ←
15:21:30 <GK> zakim, ??p29 is me
Graham Klyne: zakim, ??p29 is me ←
15:21:30 <Zakim> +GK; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +GK; got it ←
15:21:37 <kai> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Connections_Template_Catalog
Kai Eckert: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Connections_Template_Catalog ←
15:22:12 <StephenCresswell> I made contact with the Government Linked data WG - they have identified prov WG as a connection in their charter
Stephen Cresswell: I made contact with the Government Linked data WG - they have identified prov WG as a connection in their charter ←
15:22:29 <Luc> ack kai
Luc Moreau: ack kai ←
15:22:41 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:23:20 <satya> Stephen: Contacted with Government Linked Data WG and working with them to identify areas of possible collaboration
Stephen Cresswell: Contacted with Government Linked Data WG and working with them to identify areas of possible collaboration ←
15:23:20 <Luc> topic: Provenance Access Document
Summary: Yogesh presented his work on applying the PAQ approach to the Access Scenario developed at the face to face meeting. This work resulted in a series of comments, for consideration by the PAQ document editors.
<Luc>Summary: Yogesh presented his work on applying the PAQ approach to the Access Scenario developed at the face to face meeting. This work resulted in a series of comments, for consideration by the PAQ document editors.
15:24:34 <satya> Graham: Working to incorporate suggestions from Yogesh in the PAQ document
Graham Klyne: Working to incorporate suggestions from Yogesh in the PAQ document ←
15:24:58 <Yogesh> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceAccessScenarioUsingPAQ
Yogesh Simmhan: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/ProvenanceAccessScenarioUsingPAQ ←
15:25:36 <satya> Yogesh: Working to ensure that the PAQ document covers the scenarios discussed during the F2F
Yogesh Simmhan: Working to ensure that the PAQ document covers the scenarios discussed during the F2F ←
15:26:20 <satya> Yogesh: Discussing first scenario "Online HTML Documents D1 and D2 (Resource provider aware of provenance)"
Yogesh Simmhan: Discussing first scenario "Online HTML Documents D1 and D2 (Resource provider aware of provenance)" ←
15:27:17 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:27:49 <GK> @yogesh: this looks useful, material here useful for some in-document example sequences, I think :)
Graham Klyne: @yogesh: this looks useful, material here useful for some in-document example sequences, I think :) ←
15:28:00 <satya> Yogesh: The HTTP header captures both the provenance of the document and the context information
Yogesh Simmhan: The HTTP header captures both the provenance of the document and the context information ←
15:28:48 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:29:06 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
15:29:19 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
15:29:31 <jorn> zakim, ??p21 is me
Jörn Hees: zakim, ??p21 is me ←
15:29:31 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
15:29:40 <Zakim> +??P32
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P32 ←
15:29:40 <satya> Yogesh: Two variations, one uses the anchor attribute and the second uses rel = "anchor"
Yogesh Simmhan: Two variations, one uses the anchor attribute and the second uses rel = "anchor" ←
15:29:46 <Zakim> + +1.650.386.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.650.386.aaee ←
15:30:06 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:30:33 <satya> Yogesh: Describes how the "oh yeah" feature can be implemented in the first scenario
Yogesh Simmhan: Describes how the "oh yeah" feature can be implemented in the first scenario ←
15:30:53 <satya> Yogesh: Moving to the second scenario: "Online Image Document D3 (Resource provider aware of provenance)"
Yogesh Simmhan: Moving to the second scenario: "Online Image Document D3 (Resource provider aware of provenance)" ←
15:31:36 <Zakim> -Yolanda
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yolanda ←
15:32:08 <satya> Yogesh: There is no difference between this scenario (with image) and the first scenario (with document)
Yogesh Simmhan: There is no difference between this scenario (with image) and the first scenario (with document) ←
15:32:28 <satya> Yogesh: Describing the third scenario: "HTML Document D5 as Email attachment "
Yogesh Simmhan: Describing the third scenario: "HTML Document D5 as Email attachment " ←
15:32:59 <Zakim> +Yolanda
Zakim IRC Bot: +Yolanda ←
15:33:39 <satya> Yogesh: Use of "link" element to provide the provenance and anchor information
Yogesh Simmhan: Use of "link" element to provide the provenance and anchor information ←
15:33:40 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:34:17 <satya> Yogesh: Discussing the fourth scenario: " HTML Document D7 in the File System (Using provenance service)"
Yogesh Simmhan: Discussing the fourth scenario: " HTML Document D7 in the File System (Using provenance service)" ←
15:35:05 <satya> Yogesh: Again using the link element, but the provenance is from a "provenance-service"
Yogesh Simmhan: Again using the link element, but the provenance is from a "provenance-service" ←
15:35:51 <GK> My battery about to fail. Yogesh, this looks good to me. Sorry I probably won't hear you out.
Graham Klyne: My battery about to fail. Yogesh, this looks good to me. Sorry I probably won't hear you out. ←
15:36:14 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aaff ←
15:36:16 <Zakim> - +1.518.763.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.763.aadd ←
15:36:32 <satya> Yogesh: The provenance service returns a JSON file with template information (three templates)
Yogesh Simmhan: The provenance service returns a JSON file with template information (three templates) ←
15:36:57 <satya> q+
q+ ←
15:37:19 <jorn> (fixed the GET target)
Jörn Hees: (fixed the GET target) ←
15:37:32 <GK> In practice, I'd expect just one of location or provenance templates to be present, though both as here would be legal.
Graham Klyne: In practice, I'd expect just one of location or provenance templates to be present, though both as here would be legal. ←
15:37:47 <satya> Yogesh: Three templates (a) provenance_service_uri, (b) location_template, and (c) provenance_template
Yogesh Simmhan: Three templates (a) provenance_service_uri, (b) location_template, and (c) provenance_template ←
15:38:01 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:38:09 <GK> Provenance service URI is not a template, just the other two.
Graham Klyne: Provenance service URI is not a template, just the other two. ←
15:38:49 <GK> Templates are used here to conform to REST principles of hypertext as engine of app state
Graham Klyne: Templates are used here to conform to REST principles of hypertext as engine of app state ←
15:38:52 <satya> Yogesh: Discussing the fifth scenario: "Online Image Document D4 (Using provenance service)"
Yogesh Simmhan: Discussing the fifth scenario: "Online Image Document D4 (Using provenance service)" ←
15:39:13 <Zakim> +??P26
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P26 ←
15:40:25 <smiles> q+
Simon Miles: q+ ←
15:40:33 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:41:05 <Luc> ack sat
Luc Moreau: ack sat ←
15:41:49 <GK> There's a ref to the template spec in the actual document.
Graham Klyne: There's a ref to the template spec in the actual document. ←
15:42:02 <GK> It's currently IETF WIP.
Graham Klyne: It's currently IETF WIP. ←
15:42:39 <DeborahM> I was only on a cell phone before when the report happened on the connection to the open govt data working group and my irc does not show the previous notes. Is there a place to see what was typed before on that status? and is there an initial use case that is most appropriate to us?
Deborah McGuinness: I was only on a cell phone before when the report happened on the connection to the open govt data working group and my irc does not show the previous notes. Is there a place to see what was typed before on that status? and is there an initial use case that is most appropriate to us? ←
15:43:11 <jorn> DeborahM: could priv-msg it to you
Deborah McGuinness: could priv-msg it to you [ Scribe Assist by Jörn Hees ] ←
15:43:20 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:43:24 <Luc> ack smi
Luc Moreau: ack smi ←
15:43:44 <GK> @smiles - these are currently alternatives - we might chose, or allow both
Graham Klyne: @smiles - these are currently alternatives - we might chose, or allow both ←
15:44:01 <satya> Smiles: Are both the alternatives available to the users
Simon Miles: Are both the alternatives available to the users ←
15:44:24 <satya> Yogesh: This is an outstanding issue to be discussed
Yogesh Simmhan: This is an outstanding issue to be discussed ←
15:44:25 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:44:45 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
15:44:55 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
15:45:02 <satya> Yogesh: We either re-use anchor attribute or introduce an "anchor" relation
Yogesh Simmhan: We either re-use anchor attribute or introduce an "anchor" relation ←
15:45:06 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:45:51 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:45:52 <jorn> q+ what's the preferred way to deliver both: the document and its provenance attached to an email?
Jörn Hees: q+ what's the preferred way to deliver both: the document and its provenance attached to an email? ←
15:45:59 <satya> Luc: has Yogesh made suggestions/comments regarding the PAQ document?
Luc Moreau: has Yogesh made suggestions/comments regarding the PAQ document? ←
15:46:11 <Luc> ack jorn
Luc Moreau: ack jorn ←
15:46:12 <satya> Yogesh: Yes, Graham is working to address them
Yogesh Simmhan: Yes, Graham is working to address them ←
15:46:29 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:47:51 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:48:31 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:48:36 <jorn> what's the preferred way to deliver both: the document and its provenance attached to an email?
Jörn Hees: what's the preferred way to deliver both: the document and its provenance attached to an email? ←
15:48:45 <Luc> Topic: Provenance Ontology
Summary: Satya reported on progress on the ontology. The issue of uniformity of names was raised (choice of past or present tense, inclusion or not of a verb). Action on Luc to Poll the group about the conventions to follow.
<Luc>Summary: Satya reported on progress on the ontology. The issue of uniformity of names was raised (choice of past or present tense, inclusion or not of a verb). Action on Luc to Poll the group about the conventions to follow.
15:48:52 <satya> Jorn: what's the preferred way to deliver both: the document and its provenance attached to an email?
Jörn Hees: what's the preferred way to deliver both: the document and its provenance attached to an email? ←
<luc>Scribe:dgarijo
(Scribe set to Daniel Garijo)
15:49:20 <dgarijo> satya: We had a telecon on Monday
Satya Sahoo: We had a telecon on Monday ←
15:49:37 <dgarijo> satya: tried to import an scenario to RDF as an example
Satya Sahoo: tried to import an scenario to RDF as an example ←
15:49:59 <dgarijo> ... other issues: with used, particpation and generation
... other issues: with used, particpation and generation ←
15:50:22 <dgarijo> ... also putting uses in the past tense rather than in present tense
... also putting uses in the past tense rather than in present tense ←
15:50:34 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:50:42 <dgarijo> ... transform isUsedBy into used
... transform isUsedBy into used ←
15:50:44 <ralph_> q+
Ralph Hodgson: q+ ←
15:51:33 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:51:40 <dgarijo> ... if both used and generatedBy are subproperties of participation there are problems with the domains and ranges. Could we make inverse properties?
... if both used and generatedBy are subproperties of participation there are problems with the domains and ranges. Could we make inverse properties? ←
15:51:46 <dgarijo> +q
+q ←
15:52:00 <ralph_> The silent 'has' rule is a useful one
Ralph Hodgson: The silent 'has' rule is a useful one ←
15:52:38 <ralph_> drop 'is' from all predicates that have a suffix, such as 'of' - no need for 'is'
Ralph Hodgson: drop 'is' from all predicates that have a suffix, such as 'of' - no need for 'is' ←
15:52:45 <dgarijo> satya: James has been working on the formal semantics
Satya Sahoo: James has been working on the formal semantics ←
15:52:56 <satya> Discussion wiki for provenance formal model: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology
Satya Sahoo: Discussion wiki for provenance formal model: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PIL_OWL_Ontology ←
15:53:03 <jcheney> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#PIL:0001
James Cheney: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#PIL:0001 ←
15:53:03 <ralph_> consider 'usage' instead of 'uses'
Ralph Hodgson: consider 'usage' instead of 'uses' ←
15:53:30 <dgarijo> @ralph_: we took the names from the formal model :)
@ralph_: we took the names from the formal model :) ←
15:54:40 <jcheney> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/ontology/ProvenanceFormalModel.html#PIL:0001
James Cheney: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/ontology/ProvenanceFormalModel.html#PIL:0001 ←
15:54:42 <DeborahM> One overriding discussion on the uses or used includes that we want consistency of tense in the entire model. It may be that all of the roles/properties use past tense while the classes (if tense is included) may use present tense. There is a start at the evaluation of how all of the roles look if we use past tense.
Deborah McGuinness: One overriding discussion on the uses or used includes that we want consistency of tense in the entire model. It may be that all of the roles/properties use past tense while the classes (if tense is included) may use present tense. There is a start at the evaluation of how all of the roles look if we use past tense. ←
15:54:50 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:55:00 <DeborahM> +
15:55:02 <ralph_> By 'silent has' I mean that a predicate that does not have any suffix that forms a phrase should be raed as having a 'has'. This removes the need to have predicates that embody tense: 'hasRole', 'wasRole' and 'willHaveRole'
Ralph Hodgson: By 'silent has' I mean that a predicate that does not have any suffix that forms a phrase should be raed as having a 'has'. This removes the need to have predicates that embody tense: 'hasRole', 'wasRole' and 'willHaveRole' ←
15:55:17 <ralph_> raed -> read
Ralph Hodgson: raed -> read ←
15:55:18 <DeborahM> -1 for usage
Deborah McGuinness: -1 for usage ←
15:55:30 <dgarijo> -1 for usage
-1 for usage ←
15:55:43 <ralph_> no tense
Ralph Hodgson: no tense ←
15:56:39 <ralph_> Consider use of SKOS for labels
Ralph Hodgson: Consider use of SKOS for labels ←
<luc>Scribe: satya
(Scribe set to Satya Sahoo)
15:56:58 <dgarijo> why not rdf:label?
Daniel Garijo: why not rdf:label? ←
15:57:26 <DeborahM> one rationale for the best practices documents being a wiki page or html document but we expect this to evolve and we did not want it as part of the static document
Deborah McGuinness: one rationale for the best practices documents being a wiki page or html document but we expect this to evolve and we did not want it as part of the static document ←
15:57:26 <ralph_> because SKOS has more precise semantics - prefLabel, altLabel
Ralph Hodgson: because SKOS has more precise semantics - prefLabel, altLabel ←
15:57:46 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:57:51 <DeborahM> +
15:57:55 <DeborahM> +q
Deborah McGuinness: +q ←
15:57:56 <Luc> ack ral
Luc Moreau: ack ral ←
15:58:46 <Luc> action: Luc to poll the WG about use of tense (present or past) for properties
ACTION: Luc to poll the WG about use of tense (present or past) for properties ←
15:58:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-36 - Poll the WG about use of tense (present or past) for properties [on Luc Moreau - due 2011-08-25].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-36 - Poll the WG about use of tense (present or past) for properties [on Luc Moreau - due 2011-08-25]. ←
15:59:10 <satya> @Daniel: thanks for help with scribing :)
@Daniel: thanks for help with scribing :) ←
15:59:22 <dgarijo> @satya: np
Daniel Garijo: @satya: np ←
15:59:41 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
15:59:45 <Luc> ack dga
Luc Moreau: ack dga ←
16:00:37 <Zakim> -??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P21 ←
16:00:56 <satya> DanielG: Question about the "participation" - the current document does not describe "generation" as specialization of "participation"
Daniel Garijo: Question about the "participation" - the current document does not describe "generation" as specialization of "participation" ←
16:01:07 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:01:12 <Zakim> +??P12
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←
16:01:15 <jorn> zakim, ??p12 is me
Jörn Hees: zakim, ??p12 is me ←
16:01:22 <Zakim> +jorn; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jorn; got it ←
16:02:13 <Luc> ack deb
Luc Moreau: ack deb ←
16:02:24 <dgarijo> the problem with grouping both relationships under participation is that you make process execution the domain of every relationship
Daniel Garijo: the problem with grouping both relationships under participation is that you make process execution the domain of every relationship ←
16:02:27 <satya> Luc: No consensus on "generation" as specialization of "participation"
Luc Moreau: No consensus on "generation" as specialization of "participation" ←
16:03:30 <satya> Deborah: Most of the ontologies use "present tense"
Deborah McGuinness: Most of the ontologies use "present tense" ←
16:03:35 <DeborahM> Considering action 36, I suggest that we will be most informed if we look at concrete options. The poll could have two levels – abstract level – present or past – and then concrete level – get as concrete a listing as we can get and make a present vs past tense list and let people review the concrete list.
Deborah McGuinness: Considering ACTION-36, I suggest that we will be most informed if we look at concrete options. The poll could have two levels – abstract level – present or past – and then concrete level – get as concrete a listing as we can get and make a present vs past tense list and let people review the concrete list. ←
16:04:02 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:06:16 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:07:41 <ralph_> I mentioned CIDOC-CRM - ontologies for Musuems, ARt Collections and Cultural Heritage - this has some notions of provenance - see http://www.cidoc-crm.org/
Ralph Hodgson: I mentioned CIDOC-CRM - ontologies for Musuems, ARt Collections and Cultural Heritage - this has some notions of provenance - see http://www.cidoc-crm.org/ ←
16:07:52 <MacTed> seems that one need is for a superProperty "input" of which the more specific inputs are subProperties...
Ted Thibodeau: seems that one need is for a superProperty "input" of which the more specific inputs are subProperties... ←
16:07:59 <ralph_> The standard is at http://www.cidoc-crm.org/docs/cidoc_crm_version_5.0.2.pdf
Ralph Hodgson: The standard is at http://www.cidoc-crm.org/docs/cidoc_crm_version_5.0.2.pdf ←
16:08:01 <Luc> Topic: Provenance Model Document
Summary: Paul wrote a section on shortcuts and extensions. The group is invited to comment on this section in the usual way.
<luc>Summary: Paul wrote a section on shortcuts and extensions. The group is invited to comment on this section in the usual way.
16:08:11 <Luc> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#shortcuts-and-extensions
Luc Moreau: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/model/ProvenanceModel.html#shortcuts-and-extensions ←
16:08:34 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:08:47 <satya> q+
q+ ←
16:09:20 <Zakim> -Yolanda
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yolanda ←
16:09:37 <satya> ack satya
ack satya ←
16:10:30 <Luc> q?
Luc Moreau: q? ←
16:10:33 <ralph_> q+
Ralph Hodgson: q+ ←
16:10:39 <Zakim> -tlebo
Zakim IRC Bot: -tlebo ←
16:10:42 <Zakim> - +1.518.276.aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.276.aaff ←
16:10:43 <Zakim> -smiles
Zakim IRC Bot: -smiles ←
16:10:48 <Zakim> -??P35
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P35 ←
16:10:48 <Zakim> - +1.858.210.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.858.210.aacc ←
16:10:54 <Zakim> -MacTed
Zakim IRC Bot: -MacTed ←
16:10:57 <Zakim> -satya
Zakim IRC Bot: -satya ←
16:10:57 <Zakim> -dgarijo
Zakim IRC Bot: -dgarijo ←
16:10:59 <Zakim> -??P26
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P26 ←
16:11:00 <Zakim> - +1.650.386.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.650.386.aaee ←
16:11:01 <Zakim> -kai
Zakim IRC Bot: -kai ←
16:11:08 <Zakim> -Luc
Zakim IRC Bot: -Luc ←
16:11:09 <Zakim> -Yogesh
Zakim IRC Bot: -Yogesh ←
16:11:12 <Zakim> -jorn
Zakim IRC Bot: -jorn ←
16:11:19 <Zakim> -??P32
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P32 ←
16:11:20 <Zakim> -??P41
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P41 ←
16:11:22 <Zakim> -Curt
Zakim IRC Bot: -Curt ←
16:11:26 <Zakim> -Lena
Zakim IRC Bot: -Lena ←
16:17:32 <ralph_> quit
(No events recorded for 6 minutes)
Ralph Hodgson: quit ←
16:35:00 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, GK, in SW_(PROV)11:00AM
(No events recorded for 17 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, GK, in SW_(PROV)11:00AM ←
16:35:04 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended ←
16:35:06 <Zakim> Attendees were [IPcaller], Curt, satya, Luc, jorn, +1.315.330.aaaa, +1.540.449.aabb, smiles, Yogesh, Yolanda, Lena, tlebo, +1.858.210.aacc, kai, MacTed, dgarijo, +1.518.763.aadd,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were [IPcaller], Curt, satya, Luc, jorn, +1.315.330.aaaa, +1.540.449.aabb, smiles, Yogesh, Yolanda, Lena, tlebo, +1.858.210.aacc, kai, MacTed, dgarijo, +1.518.763.aadd, ←
16:35:09 <Zakim> ... GK, +1.650.386.aaee, +1.518.276.aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: ... GK, +1.650.386.aaee, +1.518.276.aaff ←
Formatted by CommonScribe