There are some format problems with the chatlog. Please correct them and reload this page. They are labeled on this page in a red box, like this message.
It may be helpful to
00:00:00 <m_schnei> PRESENT: bijan, m_schnei, rob, MartinD, bmotik, IanH, Rinke, bcuencagrau, MarkusK, Carsten, msmith, alan_ruttenberg, Evan_Wallace, baojie, JeffP, christine, Achille
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 49 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Christine Golbreich Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Diego Calvanese Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman Jeff Pan Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Kendall Clark Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Michel Dumontier Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Rob Shearer Sandro Hawke Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu
00:00:00 <m_schnei> CHAIR: alan_ruttenberg, IanH
00:00:00 <m_schnei> REGRETS: Ivan_Herman, Peter Patel-Schneider, Sandro_Hawke, Elisa_Kendall
16:55:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-owl-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-owl-irc ←
16:55:29 <bijan> Zakim, this is OWL
Bijan Parsia: Zakim, this is OWL ←
16:55:29 <Zakim> bijan, I see SW_OWL()12:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be OWL".
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, I see SW_OWL()12:00PM in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be OWL". ←
16:55:38 <bijan> Zakim, This will be OWLO
Bijan Parsia: Zakim, This will be OWLO ←
16:55:38 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, bijan ←
16:55:40 <bijan> Zakim, This will be OWL
Bijan Parsia: Zakim, This will be OWL ←
16:55:40 <Zakim> ok, bijan; I see SW_OWL()12:00PM scheduled to start 55 minutes ago
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, bijan; I see SW_OWL()12:00PM scheduled to start 55 minutes ago ←
16:57:43 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has now started ←
16:57:50 <Zakim> +??P0
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P0 ←
16:57:58 <bijan> zakim, ??P0 is me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??P0 is me ←
16:57:58 <Zakim> +bijan; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it ←
16:58:35 <Zakim> +??P6
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6 ←
16:58:38 <Zakim> -bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan ←
16:58:39 <Zakim> +bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan ←
16:58:46 <m_schnei> zakim, ??P6 is me
Michael Schneider: zakim, ??P6 is me ←
16:58:46 <Zakim> +m_schnei; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +m_schnei; got it ←
16:58:54 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
16:58:54 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
16:59:27 <Zakim> +??P7
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←
16:59:36 <Rinke> zakim, ??P7 is me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, ??P7 is me ←
16:59:36 <Zakim> +Rinke; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Rinke; got it ←
16:59:38 <Zakim> + +0186528aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +0186528aaaa ←
16:59:44 <Rinke> zakim, mute me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, mute me ←
16:59:44 <Zakim> Rinke should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should now be muted ←
16:59:46 <Zakim> +MartinD
Zakim IRC Bot: +MartinD ←
16:59:58 <MartinD> zakim, mute me
Martin Dzbor: zakim, mute me ←
17:00:00 <Zakim> MartinD should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MartinD should now be muted ←
17:00:00 <Zakim> -Rinke
Zakim IRC Bot: -Rinke ←
17:00:25 <Zakim> +??P22
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P22 ←
17:00:30 <bmotik> Zakim, ??P22 is me
Boris Motik: Zakim, ??P22 is me ←
17:00:30 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it ←
17:00:32 <Zakim> + +86527aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +86527aabb ←
17:00:36 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:00:36 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:00:49 <rob> Zakim, +0186528aaaa is me.
Rob Shearer: Zakim, +0186528aaaa is me. ←
17:00:49 <Zakim> +rob; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +rob; got it ←
17:01:00 <Zakim> +??P28
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28 ←
17:01:02 <rob> Zakim, mute me.
Rob Shearer: Zakim, mute me. ←
17:01:02 <Zakim> rob should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: rob should now be muted ←
17:01:06 <Rinke> zakim, ??P28 is me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, ??P28 is me ←
17:01:06 <Zakim> +Rinke; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Rinke; got it ←
17:01:13 <m_schnei> ScribeNick: m_schnei
(Scribe set to Michael Schneider)
17:01:13 <Rinke> zakim, mute me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, mute me ←
17:01:13 <Zakim> Rinke should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should now be muted ←
17:01:30 <bijan> (reminder to folks: http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html )
Bijan Parsia: (reminder to folks: http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot.html ) ←
17:01:41 <Rinke> RRSAgent, pointer?
Rinke Hoekstra: RRSAgent, pointer? ←
17:01:41 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-owl-irc#T17-01-41
RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-owl-irc#T17-01-41 ←
17:01:42 <Zakim> +??P33
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P33 ←
17:01:42 <IanH> zakim, aabb is me
Ian Horrocks: zakim, aabb is me ←
17:01:45 <Zakim> +IanH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH; got it ←
17:01:50 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, ??P33 is me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, ??P33 is me ←
17:01:50 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencagrau; got it ←
17:01:54 <Zakim> +??P35
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P35 ←
17:01:54 <Rinke> RRSAgent, make records public
Rinke Hoekstra: RRSAgent, make records public ←
17:01:55 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←
17:01:55 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted ←
17:02:09 <m_schnei> ScribeNick: m_schnei
17:02:25 <Rinke> zakim, unmute me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, unmute me ←
17:02:25 <Zakim> Rinke should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should no longer be muted ←
17:02:42 <Zakim> + +0493514633aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +0493514633aacc ←
17:02:49 <msmith> msmith has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.07.09/Agenda
Michael Smith: msmith has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.07.09/Agenda ←
17:02:51 <Rinke> zakim, mute me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, mute me ←
17:02:51 <Zakim> Rinke should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should now be muted ←
17:02:52 <Carsten> zakim, aacc is me
Unknown Carsten: zakim, aacc is me ←
17:02:52 <Zakim> +Carsten; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Carsten; got it ←
17:02:59 <Carsten> zakim, mute me
Unknown Carsten: zakim, mute me ←
17:02:59 <Zakim> Carsten should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Carsten should now be muted ←
17:03:00 <Zakim> +msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: +msmith ←
17:03:18 <Zakim> +??P37
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P37 ←
17:03:20 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:03:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), m_schnei, rob (muted), MartinD (muted), bmotik (muted), IanH, Rinke (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), MarkusK, Carsten (muted), msmith, ??P37
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), m_schnei, rob (muted), MartinD (muted), bmotik (muted), IanH, Rinke (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), MarkusK, Carsten (muted), msmith, ??P37 ←
17:03:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see alanr, msmith, bcuencagrau, MarkusK, bmotik, baojie, IanH, Rinke, RRSAgent, Zakim, MartinD, m_schnei, bijan, rob, Carsten, johnlsheridan, sandro, ewallace, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see alanr, msmith, bcuencagrau, MarkusK, bmotik, baojie, IanH, Rinke, RRSAgent, Zakim, MartinD, m_schnei, bijan, rob, Carsten, johnlsheridan, sandro, ewallace, trackbot ←
17:03:34 <alanr> zakim, mute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, mute me ←
17:03:34 <Zakim> sorry, alanr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, alanr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
17:03:36 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace
Zakim IRC Bot: +Evan_Wallace ←
17:03:46 <Zakim> +baojie
Zakim IRC Bot: +baojie ←
17:03:49 <alanr> zakim, ??P37 is me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, ??P37 is me ←
17:03:49 <Zakim> +alanr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +alanr; got it ←
17:03:57 <alanr> zakim, mute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, mute me ←
17:03:57 <Zakim> alanr should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr should now be muted ←
17:03:59 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:03:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), m_schnei, rob (muted), MartinD (muted), bmotik (muted), IanH, Rinke (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), MarkusK, Carsten (muted), msmith, alanr (muted),
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), m_schnei, rob (muted), MartinD (muted), bmotik (muted), IanH, Rinke (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), MarkusK, Carsten (muted), msmith, alanr (muted), ←
17:04:03 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, baojie
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Evan_Wallace, baojie ←
17:04:04 <Zakim> On IRC I see alanr, msmith, bcuencagrau, MarkusK, bmotik, baojie, IanH, Rinke, RRSAgent, Zakim, MartinD, m_schnei, bijan, rob, Carsten, johnlsheridan, sandro, ewallace, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see alanr, msmith, bcuencagrau, MarkusK, bmotik, baojie, IanH, Rinke, RRSAgent, Zakim, MartinD, m_schnei, bijan, rob, Carsten, johnlsheridan, sandro, ewallace, trackbot ←
17:04:15 <rob> I notice that my half of the datatype discussion is in the public-comments archive, but *not* the wg archive.
Rob Shearer: I notice that my half of the datatype discussion is in the public-comments archive, but *not* the wg archive. ←
17:04:47 <alanr> mostly that I am without good connectivity
Alan Ruttenberg: mostly that I am without good connectivity ←
17:04:48 <bijan> Just my usual about 114
Bijan Parsia: Just my usual about 114 ←
17:04:50 <m_schnei> Topic: Agenda Amendments
17:04:57 <m_schnei> IanH: no amendments
Ian Horrocks: no amendments ←
17:05:04 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:05:04 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:05:38 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:05:38 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:05:48 <m_schnei> Bijan: amendment 114 should be discussed and perhaps resolved
Bijan Parsia: amendment 114 should be discussed and perhaps resolved ←
17:05:51 <alanr> objection on behalf of those not here
Alan Ruttenberg: objection on behalf of those not here ←
17:05:59 <m_schnei> IanH: any objections
Ian Horrocks: any objections ←
17:06:06 <bijan> (yes, do nothing)
Bijan Parsia: (yes, do nothing) ←
17:06:18 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
17:06:18 <Zakim> alanr should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr should no longer be muted ←
17:07:01 <bijan> This issue is on the agenda
Bijan Parsia: This issue is on the agenda ←
17:07:15 <bijan> I'm fine with waiting
Bijan Parsia: I'm fine with waiting ←
17:07:28 <m_schnei> alanr: time too short to put 114 on agenda's resolve list
Alan Ruttenberg: time too short to put 114 on agenda's resolve list ←
17:07:47 <Zakim> +[IBM]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←
17:07:50 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:07:50 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:07:50 <Rinke> let's discuss it today, and propose to resolve next week
Rinke Hoekstra: let's discuss it today, and propose to resolve next week ←
17:08:10 <m_schnei> alanr: 114 is not ready to be resolved
Alan Ruttenberg: 114 is not ready to be resolved ←
17:08:19 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:08:19 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:08:21 <ewallace> +1 to moving up on the list
Evan Wallace: +1 to moving up on the list ←
17:08:28 <Achille> Zakim, IBM is me
Achille Fokoue: Zakim, IBM is me ←
17:08:28 <Zakim> +Achille; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it ←
17:08:29 <m_schnei> ianh: put 114 on top of the list, to be discussed at least
Ian Horrocks: put 114 on top of the list, to be discussed at least ←
17:08:33 <bijan> thanks!
Bijan Parsia: thanks! ←
17:08:41 <alanr> zakim, mute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, mute me ←
17:08:41 <Zakim> alanr should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr should now be muted ←
17:08:43 <Zakim> +??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←
17:09:27 <m_schnei> Topic: Action Items Status
17:09:53 <m_schnei> Subtopic: Action 150
17:10:05 <JeffP> (I am on IRC only)
Jeff Pan: (I am on IRC only) ←
17:10:10 <m_schnei> Jie: I sent a mail to RIF group
Jie Bao: I sent a mail to RIF group ←
17:10:46 <m_schnei> Jie: answer suggested to put intern String in RDF namespace
Jie Bao: answer suggested to put intern String in RDF namespace ←
17:10:48 <IanH> Jie: Contacted Axel Polleres and Ivan Herman
Jie Bao: Contacted Axel Polleres and Ivan Herman [ Scribe Assist by Ian Horrocks ] ←
17:12:02 <m_schnei> Jie: someone or some group should have a vote
Jie Bao: someone or some group should have a vote ←
17:12:41 <m_schnei> IanH: summary, things are not quite complete yet, right?
Ian Horrocks: summary, things are not quite complete yet, right? ←
17:12:48 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:12:48 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:13:09 <m_schnei> bijan: asks whether this is about i18n strings
Bijan Parsia: asks whether this is about i18n strings ←
17:14:04 <bmotik> I believe that disjointness of xsd:string and owl:internationalizedString could be handled as part of ISSUE-126
Boris Motik: I believe that disjointness of xsd:string and owl:internationalizedString could be handled as part of ISSUE-126 ←
17:14:34 <m_schnei> IanH: to jie, is this email on our list?
Ian Horrocks: to jie, is this email on our list? ←
17:14:39 <m_schnei> jie: yes, it is
17:14:39 <bijan> Thanks!
Bijan Parsia: Thanks! ←
17:14:42 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:14:42 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:15:08 <m_schnei> IanH: let's leave this open, because it didn't come to a conclusion
Ian Horrocks: let's leave this open, because it didn't come to a conclusion ←
17:15:36 <m_schnei> Subtopic: Action 156
17:15:42 <m_schnei> IanH: skipped, since AlanR not on phone at the moment
Ian Horrocks: skipped, since AlanR not on phone at the moment ←
17:15:47 <m_schnei> Subtopic: Action 157
17:15:51 <m_schnei> IanH: skipped, since AlanR not on phone at the moment
Ian Horrocks: skipped, since AlanR not on phone at the moment ←
17:15:52 <alanr> sorry - can't see agenda atm
Alan Ruttenberg: sorry - can't see agenda atm ←
17:15:57 <alanr> or web site.
Alan Ruttenberg: or web site. ←
17:16:03 <alanr> I think postpone
Alan Ruttenberg: I think postpone ←
17:16:11 <IanH> Alan -- we skipped your actions till next week
Ian Horrocks: Alan -- we skipped your actions till next week ←
17:16:13 <m_schnei> Subtopic: Action 161
17:16:16 <m_schnei> IanH: skipped, since Uli is on vacation (?)
Ian Horrocks: skipped, since Uli is on vacation (?) ←
17:16:17 <alanr> yes, please
Alan Ruttenberg: yes, please ←
17:16:21 <IanH> zakim, who is here?
Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←
17:16:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), m_schnei, rob (muted), MartinD (muted), bmotik (muted), IanH, Rinke (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), MarkusK, Carsten (muted), msmith, alanr (muted),
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), m_schnei, rob (muted), MartinD (muted), bmotik (muted), IanH, Rinke (muted), bcuencagrau (muted), MarkusK, Carsten (muted), msmith, alanr (muted), ←
17:16:27 <Zakim> ... Evan_Wallace, baojie, Achille, ??P11 (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: ... Evan_Wallace, baojie, Achille, ??P11 (muted) ←
17:16:28 <m_schnei> Subtopic: Action 162
17:16:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see alanr, JeffP, christine, Achille, msmith, bcuencagrau, MarkusK, bmotik, baojie, IanH, Rinke, RRSAgent, Zakim, MartinD, m_schnei, bijan, rob, Carsten, johnlsheridan,
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see alanr, JeffP, christine, Achille, msmith, bcuencagrau, MarkusK, bmotik, baojie, IanH, Rinke, RRSAgent, Zakim, MartinD, m_schnei, bijan, rob, Carsten, johnlsheridan, ←
17:16:32 <Zakim> ... sandro, ewallace, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro, ewallace, trackbot ←
17:16:38 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:16:38 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:16:41 <m_schnei> IanH: Diego not here, skipped
Ian Horrocks: Diego not here, skipped ←
17:16:51 <m_schnei> Subtopic: Action 165
17:17:00 <ewallace> diego was supposed to do a write up
Evan Wallace: diego was supposed to do a write up ←
17:17:01 <m_schnei> IanH: also Diego's action, thus skipped
Ian Horrocks: also Diego's action, thus skipped ←
17:17:14 <m_schnei> Boris: Hasn't this already been done?
Boris Motik: Hasn't this already been done? ←
17:17:23 <m_schnei> IanH: I did not see any emails
Ian Horrocks: I did not see any emails ←
17:17:35 <m_schnei> Boris: It's already updated in the profiles
Boris Motik: It's already updated in the profiles ←
17:17:35 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:17:35 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:17:50 <bmotik> Yes
Boris Motik: Yes ←
17:17:54 <msmith> yes
Michael Smith: yes ←
17:18:05 <m_schnei> IanH: 161 subsumed by 162
Ian Horrocks: 161 subsumed by 162 ←
17:18:31 <m_schnei> IanH: new member of the WG, which is Rob from Oxford
Ian Horrocks: new member of the WG, which is Rob from Oxford ←
17:18:36 <rob> zakim, unmute me
Rob Shearer: zakim, unmute me ←
17:18:36 <Zakim> rob should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: rob should no longer be muted ←
17:18:42 <m_schnei> IanH: Rob helps with datatypes
Ian Horrocks: Rob helps with datatypes ←
17:18:47 <m_schnei> Rob: Hi!
Rob Shearer: Hi! ←
17:19:02 <rob> zakim, mute me
Rob Shearer: zakim, mute me ←
17:19:02 <Zakim> rob should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: rob should now be muted ←
17:19:09 <Rinke> q+ to ask about the minutes of the previous meeting?
Rinke Hoekstra: q+ to ask about the minutes of the previous meeting? ←
17:19:30 <Rinke> zakim, unmute me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, unmute me ←
17:19:30 <Zakim> Rinke should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should no longer be muted ←
17:19:32 <alanr> Action 156 needs to be pushed to next week. Haven't heard back from Judy Brewer on Action 157, so push
Alan Ruttenberg: ACTION-156 needs to be pushed to next week. Haven't heard back from Judy Brewer on ACTION-157, so push ←
17:19:32 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - 156
Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - 156 ←
17:19:55 <alanr> "Action 156 needs to be pushed to next week. Haven't heard back from Judy Brewer on Action 157, so push"
Alan Ruttenberg: "ACTION-156 needs to be pushed to next week. Haven't heard back from Judy Brewer on ACTION-157, so push" ←
17:19:56 <Rinke> zakim, mute me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, mute me ←
17:19:56 <Zakim> Rinke should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should now be muted ←
17:20:00 <m_schnei> Topic: Accept Previous Minutes
17:20:22 <m_schnei> Rinke: previous minutes not yet treated
Rinke Hoekstra: previous minutes not yet treated ←
17:20:56 <Rinke> they looked ok to me as well
Rinke Hoekstra: they looked ok to me as well ←
17:21:14 <IanH> Proposed: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-07-02
PROPOSED: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-07-02 ←
17:21:17 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
17:21:20 <ewallace> +1
Evan Wallace: +1 ←
17:21:22 <Rinke> +1
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←
17:21:32 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
17:21:37 <MartinD> +1
Martin Dzbor: +1 ←
17:21:39 <JeffP> 0 (didn't check yet)
Jeff Pan: 0 (didn't check yet) ←
17:21:39 <IanH> Resolved: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-07-02
RESOLVED: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/meeting/2008-07-02 ←
17:22:00 <m_schnei> IanH: now let's go on with issues to be resolved
Ian Horrocks: now let's go on with issues to be resolved ←
17:22:04 <m_schnei> Topic: Proposals to Resolve Issues
17:22:09 <m_schnei> Subtopic: Issue 5
17:22:46 <m_schnei> IanH: slightly strange issue
Ian Horrocks: slightly strange issue ←
17:22:59 <alanr> close as withdrawn
Alan Ruttenberg: close as withdrawn ←
17:23:01 <m_schnei> IanH: Jeremy did not object
Ian Horrocks: Jeremy did not object ←
17:23:06 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:23:06 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:23:37 <m_schnei> Bijan: Jeremy sent a mail that HP doen't care anymore
Bijan Parsia: Jeremy sent a mail that HP doen't care anymore ←
17:23:48 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
17:23:48 <Zakim> alanr should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr should no longer be muted ←
17:23:56 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:23:56 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:24:13 <m_schnei> alanr: supports close as withdrawn
Alan Ruttenberg: supports close as withdrawn ←
17:24:43 <alanr> zakim, mute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, mute me ←
17:24:43 <Zakim> alanr should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr should now be muted ←
17:25:04 <IanH> PROPOSED: close Issue 5 as withdrawn
PROPOSED: close ISSUE-5 as withdrawn ←
17:25:28 <ewallace> +1
Evan Wallace: +1 ←
17:25:31 <Rinke> +1
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←
17:25:35 <MartinD> +1
Martin Dzbor: +1 ←
17:25:39 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
17:25:39 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
17:25:43 <baojie> 1
17:25:44 <bijan> +!
Bijan Parsia: +! ←
17:25:46 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
17:25:47 <msmith> +1
Michael Smith: +1 ←
17:25:50 <alanr> I didn't want closing the issue to imply that the technical issues that were raised were solved or rejected. They may be brought up again, if appropriate.
Alan Ruttenberg: I didn't want closing the issue to imply that the technical issues that were raised were solved or rejected. They may be brought up again, if appropriate. ←
17:25:54 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
17:26:02 <IanH> RESOLVED: close Issue 5 as withdrawn
RESOLVED: close ISSUE-5 as withdrawn ←
17:26:17 <m_schnei> Subtopic: Issue 31
17:26:41 <m_schnei> IanH: seems to me as a left over from early days
Ian Horrocks: seems to me as a left over from early days ←
17:26:52 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
17:26:53 <Zakim> alanr should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr should no longer be muted ←
17:26:54 <m_schnei> IanH: looks moot to me
Ian Horrocks: looks moot to me ←
17:27:30 <m_schnei> alanr: we haven't finished this conversation
Alan Ruttenberg: we haven't finished this conversation ←
17:28:10 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:28:10 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:28:25 <m_schnei> bijan: i sent email
Bijan Parsia: i sent email ←
17:29:12 <msmith> +1 to bijan. this issue has not been mooted. I also sent an email today.
Michael Smith: +1 to bijan. this issue has not been mooted. I also sent an email today. ←
17:29:14 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:29:14 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:29:15 <m_schnei> bijan: it's not mooted just by the fact that we have internal syntax
Bijan Parsia: it's not mooted just by the fact that we have internal syntax ←
17:29:53 <m_schnei> boris: i don't understand this issue
Boris Motik: i don't understand this issue ←
17:30:02 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:30:02 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:30:27 <msmith> See e.g., http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-xsch-datatypes/#sec-userDefined
Michael Smith: See e.g., http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-xsch-datatypes/#sec-userDefined ←
17:30:29 <bmotik> What are user-defined datatypes?
Boris Motik: What are user-defined datatypes? ←
17:31:00 <m_schnei> bijan: pellet supports working with external xml datatypes
Bijan Parsia: pellet supports working with external xml datatypes ←
17:31:18 <Zakim> -Achille
Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille ←
17:31:45 <ewallace> because SWBPD didn't choose
Evan Wallace: because SWBPD didn't choose ←
17:31:47 <m_schnei> IanH: why is this a problem for our WG?
Ian Horrocks: why is this a problem for our WG? ←
17:31:48 <Achille> I have to leave because of a conflicting meeting
Achille Fokoue: I have to leave because of a conflicting meeting ←
17:32:08 <m_schnei> bijan: old owl wg did not do something about this
Bijan Parsia: old owl wg did not do something about this ←
17:32:11 <msmith> The last query to XML Schema said that XSCD work was ongoing
Michael Smith: The last query to XML Schema said that XSCD work was ongoing ←
17:32:14 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:32:14 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:32:32 <m_schnei> boris: what is meant by "user defined datatypes"
Boris Motik: what is meant by "user defined datatypes" ←
17:32:34 <msmith> bmotik, see http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-xsch-datatypes/#sec-userDefined
Michael Smith: bmotik, see http://www.w3.org/TR/swbp-xsch-datatypes/#sec-userDefined ←
17:32:55 <rob> Is the set of types open-ended in OWL 1.0? Our proposal is that the set of types is limited in OWL 2...
Rob Shearer: Is the set of types open-ended in OWL 1.0? Our proposal is that the set of types is limited in OWL 2... ←
17:33:13 <alanr> +1 to not moot
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to not moot ←
17:33:14 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:33:14 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:33:43 <bijan> I'm happy to resolve it negatively if the wg isn't interested
Bijan Parsia: I'm happy to resolve it negatively if the wg isn't interested ←
17:33:54 <m_schnei> ianh: we are not in agreement at the moment
Ian Horrocks: we are not in agreement at the moment ←
17:34:32 <rob> I think some of these issues might be mooted after discussion of the new datatype proposal, but not until then.
Rob Shearer: I think some of these issues might be mooted after discussion of the new datatype proposal, but not until then. ←
17:34:33 <m_schnei> msmith: would be nice to have OWL together with XML Schema
Michael Smith: would be nice to have OWL together with XML Schema ←
17:34:41 <bmotik> Thanks!
Boris Motik: Thanks! ←
17:35:00 <bijan> And they're not being mooted doesn't mean we can't close it
Bijan Parsia: And they're not being mooted doesn't mean we can't close it ←
17:35:00 <m_schnei> IanH: let's take this offline, and defer resolution
Ian Horrocks: let's take this offline, and defer resolution ←
17:35:15 <bijan> If the group sentiment is against that, it's fine to close it.
Bijan Parsia: If the group sentiment is against that, it's fine to close it. ←
17:35:16 <m_schnei> Subtopic: Issue 53
17:35:41 <m_schnei> IanH: issue raised long time ago, it's rather a usecase
Ian Horrocks: issue raised long time ago, it's rather a usecase ←
17:35:43 <bijan> I can add it ot the n-ary use case page
Bijan Parsia: I can add it ot the n-ary use case page ←
17:35:58 <alanr> +1 to resolve in this way
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to resolve in this way ←
17:36:34 <ewallace> +1 to resolve by adding the use case to the N-ary use case page
Evan Wallace: +1 to resolve by adding the use case to the N-ary use case page ←
17:36:35 <IanH> PROPOSED: Resolve issue-53 by turning it into an nary datatype use case
PROPOSED: Resolve ISSUE-53 by turning it into an nary datatype use case ←
17:36:37 <bijan> I've added it ot the n-ary data predicate use case page.
Bijan Parsia: I've added it ot the n-ary data predicate use case page. ←
17:36:41 <Rinke> +1
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←
17:36:42 <ewallace> +1
Evan Wallace: +1 ←
17:36:45 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
17:36:45 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
17:36:48 <MartinD> +1
Martin Dzbor: +1 ←
17:36:55 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
17:36:57 <msmith> +1
Michael Smith: +1 ←
17:37:00 <Carsten> +1
Unknown Carsten: +1 ←
17:37:04 <IanH> RESOLVED: Resolve issue-53 by turning it into an nary datatype use case
RESOLVED: Resolve ISSUE-53 by turning it into an nary datatype use case ←
17:37:31 <m_schnei> Subtopic: Issue 87
17:37:46 <rob> zakim, unmute me
Rob Shearer: zakim, unmute me ←
17:37:46 <Zakim> rob should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: rob should no longer be muted ←
17:37:55 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:37:55 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:37:57 <m_schnei> IanH: rational number datatype should be subsumed below 126
Ian Horrocks: rational number datatype should be subsumed below 126 ←
17:38:01 <alanr> fwiw, i do as well
Alan Ruttenberg: fwiw, i do as well ←
17:38:13 <rob> zakim, mute me
Rob Shearer: zakim, mute me ←
17:38:13 <Zakim> rob should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: rob should now be muted ←
17:38:15 <bmotik> I'd prefer closing the issue.
Boris Motik: I'd prefer closing the issue. ←
17:38:49 <rob> we can decide 126 independently of whether we support rationals
Rob Shearer: we can decide 126 independently of whether we support rationals ←
17:38:53 <msmith> msmith: I agree with Rob. It is easier to close smaller issues
Michael Smith: I agree with Rob. It is easier to close smaller issues [ Scribe Assist by Michael Smith ] ←
17:38:56 <rob> ...thus easier to keep rationals as a separate issue
Rob Shearer: ...thus easier to keep rationals as a separate issue ←
17:39:14 <m_schnei> IanH: so let this one open
Ian Horrocks: so let this one open ←
17:39:25 <m_schnei> Subtopic: Issue 128
17:39:52 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
17:39:52 <Zakim> alanr was not muted, alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr was not muted, alanr ←
17:39:54 <m_schnei> IanH: I have proposed to close this issue
Ian Horrocks: I have proposed to close this issue ←
17:40:11 <m_schnei> alanr: this kind of review will be ongoing
Alan Ruttenberg: this kind of review will be ongoing ←
17:40:25 <rob> so we resolve that it would be a good idea?
Rob Shearer: so we resolve that it would be a good idea? ←
17:40:27 <bmotik> Sure -- all documents have to de reviewed before publishing.
Boris Motik: Sure -- all documents have to de reviewed before publishing. ←
17:40:36 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
17:40:36 <Zakim> alanr was not muted, alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr was not muted, alanr ←
17:40:40 <m_schnei> IanH: we did our job for now
Ian Horrocks: we did our job for now ←
17:40:47 <alanr> I prefer to leave it open as a reminder, but not bring it to meeting
Alan Ruttenberg: I prefer to leave it open as a reminder, but not bring it to meeting ←
17:40:53 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
17:40:57 <Zakim> alanr was not muted, alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr was not muted, alanr ←
17:41:25 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:41:25 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:41:30 <m_schnei> alanr: though this issue should be a reminder for us to review later
Alan Ruttenberg: though this issue should be a reminder for us to review later ←
17:41:56 <alanr> ok, Boris, that's fine. Will start a wiki page.
Alan Ruttenberg: ok, Boris, that's fine. Will start a wiki page. ←
17:42:01 <bijan> +1 to morale boosting effect of issue list
Bijan Parsia: +1 to morale boosting effect of issue list ←
17:42:04 <bijan> reduction
Bijan Parsia: reduction ←
17:42:12 <ewallace> +1 on moving to QA list per Boris' suggestion
Evan Wallace: +1 on moving to QA list per Boris' suggestion ←
17:42:15 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
17:42:15 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
17:42:25 <m_schnei> boris: have a quality list which contains things which have to be done at the end
Boris Motik: have a quality list which contains things which have to be done at the end ←
17:42:44 <IanH> PROPOSED: Issue 128 resolved by moving it to a QA wiki page
PROPOSED: ISSUE-128 resolved by moving it to a QA wiki page ←
17:42:47 <rob> +1
Rob Shearer: +1 ←
17:42:48 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
17:42:50 <bcuencagrau> +1
17:42:54 <ewallace> +1
Evan Wallace: +1 ←
17:42:56 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
17:42:56 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
17:42:56 <Rinke> +1 perfect
Rinke Hoekstra: +1 perfect ←
17:43:06 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
17:43:07 <IanH> RESOLVED: Issue 128 resolved by moving it to a QA wiki page
RESOLVED: ISSUE-128 resolved by moving it to a QA wiki page ←
17:43:09 <MartinD> +1
Martin Dzbor: +1 ←
17:43:33 <m_schnei> IanH: happy about having closed several issues
Ian Horrocks: happy about having closed several issues ←
17:43:37 <m_schnei> Topic: Other Issue Discussions
17:43:46 <m_schnei> Subtopic: Issue 114 (Agenda Amendment)
17:44:00 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Draft_QA
Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Draft_QA ←
17:44:33 <m_schnei> alanr: worries about sensibility of punning
Alan Ruttenberg: worries about sensibility of punning ←
17:44:48 <m_schnei> alanr: I would like to understand the usecases
Alan Ruttenberg: I would like to understand the usecases ←
17:45:39 <m_schnei> alanr: I looked at each possible combination and checked whether this makes sense (eg. class / constant punning)
Alan Ruttenberg: I looked at each possible combination and checked whether this makes sense (eg. class / constant punning) ←
17:46:06 <m_schnei> alanr: does punning make sense in the context of SPARQL queries?
Alan Ruttenberg: does punning make sense in the context of SPARQL queries? ←
17:47:01 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
17:47:01 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
17:47:42 <rob> I'm very skeptical of calling any of this "trivial".
Rob Shearer: I'm very skeptical of calling any of this "trivial". ←
17:47:43 <m_schnei> bijan: given that all other forms of punning are in Full and easy to implement, we can keep it in
Bijan Parsia: given that all other forms of punning are in Full and easy to implement, we can keep it in ←
17:47:59 <rob> Rationale -- explaining it to users will be hard.
Rob Shearer: Rationale -- explaining it to users will be hard. ←
17:48:07 <alanr> -1 to perversions in the language
Alan Ruttenberg: -1 to perversions in the language ←
17:48:10 <rob> Unless we have a simple conceptualization.
Rob Shearer: Unless we have a simple conceptualization. ←
17:48:13 <m_schnei> bijan: would otherwise create artificial distinction
Bijan Parsia: would otherwise create artificial distinction ←
17:48:15 <alanr> gives us a bad name
Alan Ruttenberg: gives us a bad name ←
17:48:27 <rob> Not all OWL-DL tools.
Rob Shearer: Not all OWL-DL tools. ←
17:49:00 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
17:49:00 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
17:49:04 <m_schnei> bijan: we should put it in, and give best practice notes if some form turns out to be harmful
Bijan Parsia: we should put it in, and give best practice notes if some form turns out to be harmful ←
17:49:41 <m_schnei> boris: what is the problem, what does it mean that a form of punning does not make sense?
Boris Motik: what is the problem, what does it mean that a form of punning does not make sense? ←
17:50:07 <MarkusK> +1 to Boris: punning is no semantic problem
Markus Krötzsch: +1 to Boris: punning is no semantic problem ←
17:50:28 <m_schnei> boris: we only dropped property/property punning because of RDF serialization problems
Boris Motik: we only dropped property/property punning because of RDF serialization problems ←
17:50:50 <m_schnei> alanr: there were also other problems
Alan Ruttenberg: there were also other problems ←
17:51:20 <m_schnei> alanr: we are a Semantic Web working group
Alan Ruttenberg: we are a Semantic Web working group ←
17:51:31 <m_schnei> alanr: have to take the usecases into account
Alan Ruttenberg: have to take the usecases into account ←
17:51:47 <m_schnei> Boris: if you don't like a certain form of punning, don't use it
Boris Motik: if you don't like a certain form of punning, don't use it ←
17:52:34 <bmotik> bmotik: What could go wrong with different types of punning?
Boris Motik: What could go wrong with different types of punning? [ Scribe Assist by Boris Motik ] ←
17:52:51 <m_schnei> Bijan: Why should wg spend so much time on this point, if there is only a single member org against
Bijan Parsia: Why should wg spend so much time on this point, if there is only a single member org against ←
17:52:56 <bmotik> bmotik: What types of punning do you consider really bad?
Boris Motik: What types of punning do you consider really bad? [ Scribe Assist by Boris Motik ] ←
17:53:12 <rob> My concerns would be addressed by some good example of usage that could be used as the basis for some documentation.
Rob Shearer: My concerns would be addressed by some good example of usage that could be used as the basis for some documentation. ←
17:53:33 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:53:33 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:54:11 <m_schnei> alanr: what goes wrong is that things can be done which are nonsense
Alan Ruttenberg: what goes wrong is that things can be done which are nonsense ←
17:54:26 <m_schnei> alanr: general question is, what is a feature for
Alan Ruttenberg: general question is, what is a feature for ←
17:54:38 <bijan> I didn't speak for them all
Bijan Parsia: I didn't speak for them all ←
17:54:41 <bijan> I made a prediction
Bijan Parsia: I made a prediction ←
17:55:19 <Zakim> -alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: -alanr ←
17:55:29 <rob> zakim, unmute me
Rob Shearer: zakim, unmute me ←
17:55:29 <Zakim> rob should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: rob should no longer be muted ←
17:55:47 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
17:55:47 <Zakim> sorry, alanr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, alanr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←
17:56:34 <Zakim> +??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←
17:56:42 <alanr> zakim, ??P1 is me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, ??P1 is me ←
17:56:42 <Zakim> +alanr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +alanr; got it ←
17:57:14 <alanr> ok - that was said in the issue
Alan Ruttenberg: ok - that was said in the issue ←
17:57:21 <alanr> Thus, the same name can be used
Alan Ruttenberg: Thus, the same name can be used ←
17:57:21 <alanr> in an ontology to denote a class, a datatype, a property
Alan Ruttenberg: in an ontology to denote a class, a datatype, a property ←
17:57:21 <alanr> (object or data), an individual, and a constant
Alan Ruttenberg: (object or data), an individual, and a constant ←
17:57:22 <m_schnei> m_schnei: (answer to alanr) it is not possible to pun classes and constants, because of different syntax of URIs and constants
Michael Schneider: (answer to alanr) it is not possible to pun classes and constants, because of different syntax of URIs and constants ←
17:57:24 <bmotik> I agree with michael here
Boris Motik: I agree with michael here ←
17:57:27 <bmotik> completely
Boris Motik: completely ←
17:57:29 <alanr> good.
Alan Ruttenberg: good. ←
17:57:38 <bijan> Yep. It's syntactically impossible, yes?
Bijan Parsia: Yep. It's syntactically impossible, yes? ←
17:57:54 <bijan> Spelt differntly
Bijan Parsia: Spelt differntly ←
17:58:00 <bijan> Pun requries same spelling
Bijan Parsia: Pun requries same spelling ←
17:58:08 <alanr> Looks like a mistake in the issue submission
Alan Ruttenberg: Looks like a mistake in the issue submission ←
17:59:13 <alanr> class/properties has no interesting inference
Alan Ruttenberg: class/properties has no interesting inference ←
18:00:20 <alanr> Actually, perhaps this approach would work over email.
Alan Ruttenberg: Actually, perhaps this approach would work over email. ←
18:00:49 <Carsten> Have to leave, bye.
Unknown Carsten: Have to leave, bye. ←
18:00:59 <bijan> Interesting inferences aren't the only issue. It's useful in some cases to keep both forms in the same document instead of syntactically forbidding them.
Bijan Parsia: Interesting inferences aren't the only issue. It's useful in some cases to keep both forms in the same document instead of syntactically forbidding them. ←
18:01:00 <alanr> Would like a definitive list of what it is possible to pun. Could someone email this?
Alan Ruttenberg: Would like a definitive list of what it is possible to pun. Could someone email this? ←
18:01:00 <Zakim> -Carsten
Zakim IRC Bot: -Carsten ←
18:01:48 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:01:56 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
18:01:56 <Zakim> alanr was not muted, alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr was not muted, alanr ←
18:01:57 <rob> zakim, mute me
Rob Shearer: zakim, mute me ←
18:01:57 <Zakim> rob should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: rob should now be muted ←
18:02:08 <christine> christine: also would like to se UC stemming from *real* appli not eagle
Christine Golbreich: also would like to se UC stemming from *real* appli not eagle [ Scribe Assist by Christine Golbreich ] ←
18:02:16 <m_schnei> rob: we can find a usecase for every form of punning
Rob Shearer: we can find a usecase for every form of punning ←
18:02:30 <rob> I've been searching the web site and can't find them...
Rob Shearer: I've been searching the web site and can't find them... ←
18:02:43 <m_schnei> alanr: would like to see a list of all possible punning combinations
Alan Ruttenberg: would like to see a list of all possible punning combinations ←
18:02:49 <MarkusK> Some use cases for punning are already at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/PropertyPunning#Use_cases; maybe more can be added there
Markus Krötzsch: Some use cases for punning are already at http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/PropertyPunning#Use_cases; maybe more can be added there ←
18:02:52 <msmith> IIRC, Evan has stated use cases for class/property more than once
Michael Smith: IIRC, Evan has stated use cases for class/property more than once ←
18:03:12 <m_schnei> alanr: there is no entailment for class property punning
Alan Ruttenberg: there is no entailment for class property punning ←
18:03:15 <MarkusK> Oops, better URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Punning#Use_cases
Markus Krötzsch: Oops, better URL: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Punning#Use_cases ←
18:03:18 <bijan> rob, the general use case is not to reject intelligible rdf graphs
Bijan Parsia: rob, the general use case is not to reject intelligible rdf graphs ←
18:03:22 <bijan> (my general use cases)
Bijan Parsia: (my general use cases) ←
18:03:42 <rob> true---there are use cases on the site.
Rob Shearer: true---there are use cases on the site. ←
18:03:48 <msmith> yes, the class property use cases http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Punning#UML_Association_Class_.28Class_.E2.86.94_ObjectProperty.29
Michael Smith: yes, the class property use cases http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Punning#UML_Association_Class_.28Class_.E2.86.94_ObjectProperty.29 ←
18:04:07 <bmotik> I'm already writing an e-mail
Boris Motik: I'm already writing an e-mail ←
18:04:14 <m_schnei> Ian: let's take this offline, and try to clarify the usecases for all the different kinds of punning
Ian Horrocks: let's take this offline, and try to clarify the usecases for all the different kinds of punning ←
18:04:25 <bijan> Because it's work?
Bijan Parsia: Because it's work? ←
18:04:26 <rob> (as a newbie, I've got to say I see the burden on Alan to identify his problems with the current use cases)
Rob Shearer: (as a newbie, I've got to say I see the burden on Alan to identify his problems with the current use cases) ←
18:04:58 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
18:04:58 <Zakim> alanr was not muted, alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr was not muted, alanr ←
18:05:00 <m_schnei> boris: I will send a mail
Boris Motik: I will send a mail ←
18:05:02 <alanr> zakim, mute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, mute me ←
18:05:02 <Zakim> alanr should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr should now be muted ←
18:05:15 <alanr> yes
Alan Ruttenberg: yes ←
18:05:29 <alanr> zakim, unmute me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, unmute me ←
18:05:29 <Zakim> alanr should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr should no longer be muted ←
18:05:31 <m_schnei> IanH: alanr, can you take over chair? i have to go
Ian Horrocks: alanr, can you take over chair? i have to go ←
18:05:56 <m_schnei> alanr: ok, but technical problems might arise with my phone connection
Alan Ruttenberg: ok, but technical problems might arise with my phone connection ←
18:06:00 <m_schnei> IanH: Rinke as chair backup if alanr's connection go's down
Ian Horrocks: Rinke as chair backup if alanr's connection go's down ←
18:06:11 <Rinke> me? sure
Rinke Hoekstra: me? sure ←
18:06:33 <bijan> BTW, I object to the characterization that my point was a matter of haphazard langauge design. My point is in part about burden a proof: you need a convincing argument to get people to stop supporting such punning
Bijan Parsia: BTW, I object to the characterization that my point was a matter of haphazard langauge design. My point is in part about burden a proof: you need a convincing argument to get people to stop supporting such punning ←
18:06:42 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:06:42 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan ←
18:07:20 <m_schnei> Topic: General Discussion
18:07:20 <m_schnei> Subtopic: Rich Annotations
18:07:57 <alanr> very interested in rich annotations
Alan Ruttenberg: very interested in rich annotations ←
18:08:14 <Rinke> me too
Rinke Hoekstra: me too ←
18:08:17 <m_schnei> bijan: we have this proposal to let people put annotations into a separate domain
Bijan Parsia: we have this proposal to let people put annotations into a separate domain ←
18:08:59 <alanr> q+ to ask whether single annotation space/ serialized as one separate file is a useful extension
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask whether single annotation space/ serialized as one separate file is a useful extension ←
18:09:21 <m_schnei> bijan: in OWL 1 you could put annotations into a different document to have them separated
Bijan Parsia: in OWL 1 you could put annotations into a different document to have them separated ←
18:09:51 <alanr> q+ to ask, are you thinking about how such annotations can be queried within SPARQL - or how important this would be
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask, are you thinking about how such annotations can be queried within SPARQL - or how important this would be ←
18:10:30 <alanr> q+ to ask whether current question of annotations on annotations comes for free in this proposal
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask whether current question of annotations on annotations comes for free in this proposal ←
18:10:35 <m_schnei> bijan: we get a lot requests to have a DC ontology, but one either have to pun or make those annotations meaningless
Bijan Parsia: we get a lot requests to have a DC ontology, but one either have to pun or make those annotations meaningless ←
18:11:08 <Zakim> bijan: queried within SPARQL - or how important this would be and to ask whether current question of annotations on annotations comes for free in this proposal
Bijan Parsia: queried within SPARQL - or how important this would be and to ask whether current question of annotations on annotations comes for free in this proposal [ Scribe Assist by Zakim IRC Bot ] ←
18:12:10 <m_schnei> alanr: (to bijan) why not have annotations in different documents?
Alan Ruttenberg: (to bijan) why not have annotations in different documents? ←
18:12:56 <m_schnei> bijan: that's a design option, but some people don't like to work with several files
Bijan Parsia: that's a design option, but some people don't like to work with several files ←
18:13:53 <m_schnei> alanr: second question about annotations on annotations
Alan Ruttenberg: second question about annotations on annotations ←
18:14:05 <m_schnei> alanr: would this be problematic?
Alan Ruttenberg: would this be problematic? ←
18:15:19 <m_schnei> bijan: my current syntax doesn't allows this, but it would be an easy extension.
Bijan Parsia: my current syntax doesn't allows this, but it would be an easy extension. ←
18:15:39 <m_schnei> alanr: third question about SPARQL, doesn't look operable there
Alan Ruttenberg: third question about SPARQL, doesn't look operable there ←
18:16:44 <m_schnei> bijan: parser preprocessor should handle this
Bijan Parsia: parser preprocessor should handle this ←
18:18:13 <m_schnei> alanr: strawpoll, whether bijan's approach or simply use multiple documents?
Alan Ruttenberg: strawpoll, whether bijan's approach or simply use multiple documents? ←
18:18:49 <IanH> Got to go -- bye
Ian Horrocks: Got to go -- bye ←
18:18:53 <Zakim> -IanH
Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH ←
18:19:27 <JeffP> bye
18:19:32 <Rinke> q+ to ask about the RDF problem
Rinke Hoekstra: q+ to ask about the RDF problem ←
18:19:38 <Rinke> zakim, unmute me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, unmute me ←
18:19:38 <Zakim> Rinke should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should no longer be muted ←
18:20:21 <m_schnei> rinke: question, if there are specific problems with the RDF serialization?
Rinke Hoekstra: question, if there are specific problems with the RDF serialization? ←
18:20:54 <m_schnei> bijan: we use reification, because there is no other support in RDF
Bijan Parsia: we use reification, because there is no other support in RDF ←
18:21:21 <Rinke> zakim, mute me
Rinke Hoekstra: zakim, mute me ←
18:21:21 <Zakim> Rinke should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Rinke should now be muted ←
18:22:05 <bijan> I'm indifferent
Bijan Parsia: I'm indifferent ←
18:22:06 <ewallace> Don't understand the question
Evan Wallace: Don't understand the question ←
18:22:08 <m_schnei> alanr: asks for strawpoll whether special annotation layer approach is wanted
Alan Ruttenberg: asks for strawpoll whether special annotation layer approach is wanted ←
18:22:12 <alanr> STRAWPOLL: Serializing rich annotation to separate files (for RDF) OK? Not OK?
STRAWPOLL: Serializing rich annotation to separate files (for RDF) OK? Not OK? ←
18:22:09 <msmith> +0 1 or several files is acceptable if it works
Michael Smith: +0 1 or several files is acceptable if it works ←
18:22:22 <ewallace> multiple files would be o.k.
Evan Wallace: multiple files would be o.k. ←
18:22:26 <alanr> ok
Alan Ruttenberg: ok ←
18:22:33 <Rinke> +0.5 no objection myself
Rinke Hoekstra: +0.5 no objection myself ←
18:22:34 <msmith> ok
Michael Smith: ok ←
18:22:41 <m_schnei> m_schnei: +.025 to separate files (but I did not think about this)
Michael Schneider: +.025 to separate files (but I did not think about this) ←
18:22:55 <MartinD> +epsilon
Martin Dzbor: +epsilon ←
18:23:02 <JeffP> 0
18:23:07 <baojie> 0
18:23:13 <rob> -0
Rob Shearer: -0 ←
18:23:14 <MarkusK> 0 if it works, how would we specify the location of the other file (sound like ontology import ...)?
Markus Krötzsch: 0 if it works, how would we specify the location of the other file (sound like ontology import ...)? ←
18:23:16 <bmotik> 0
Boris Motik: 0 ←
18:23:27 <bcuencagrau> I am not sure if I understand completely
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: I am not sure if I understand completely ←
18:23:28 <Rinke> good point MarkusK
Rinke Hoekstra: good point MarkusK ←
18:23:52 <Rinke> perhaps we should have sth. as owl:importAnnotation
Rinke Hoekstra: perhaps we should have sth. as owl:importAnnotation ←
18:24:17 <MartinD> +1 to rinke's idea...
Martin Dzbor: +1 to rinke's idea... ←
18:24:36 <m_schnei> Bijan: suggests to send a proposal
Bijan Parsia: suggests to send a proposal ←
18:25:27 <alanr> action: alan to draft sketch of how to serialize rdf annotation spaces - separate files.
ACTION: alan to draft sketch of how to serialize rdf annotation spaces - separate files. ←
18:25:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-166 - Draft sketch of how to serialize rdf annotation spaces - separate files. [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-07-16].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-166 - Draft sketch of how to serialize rdf annotation spaces - separate files. [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-07-16]. ←
18:25:47 <m_schnei> Subtopic: N-Ary Datatypes
18:25:48 <alanr> q+ to ask about progress with mockup in racer
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask about progress with mockup in racer ←
18:25:51 <m_schnei> Bijan: i think there is a point with conformance
Bijan Parsia: i think there is a point with conformance ←
18:26:27 <m_schnei> Bijan: some people want linear equations
Bijan Parsia: some people want linear equations ←
18:26:37 <msmith> Indeed, I'd like to see linear ineq in Pellet
Michael Smith: Indeed, I'd like to see linear ineq in Pellet ←
18:26:52 <alanr> mike, do you have a use case you could document?
Alan Ruttenberg: mike, do you have a use case you could document? ←
18:27:57 <msmith> alanr, I think some of the cases on http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/N-ary_Data_predicate_use_case motivate linear inequations
Michael Smith: alanr, I think some of the cases on http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/N-ary_Data_predicate_use_case motivate linear inequations ←
18:28:23 <m_schnei> AlanR: Any questions to Bijan? No?
Alan Ruttenberg: Any questions to Bijan? No? ←
18:28:24 <Zakim> -bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan ←
18:28:26 <alanr> adjourned
Alan Ruttenberg: adjourned ←
18:28:26 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace
Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace ←
18:28:26 <Zakim> -msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←
18:28:28 <Zakim> -bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←
18:28:29 <christine> bye
Christine Golbreich: bye ←
18:28:29 <Rinke> thanks, bye
Rinke Hoekstra: thanks, bye ←
18:28:31 <Zakim> -bcuencagrau
Zakim IRC Bot: -bcuencagrau ←
18:28:32 <Zakim> -MarkusK
Zakim IRC Bot: -MarkusK ←
18:28:33 <Zakim> -rob
Zakim IRC Bot: -rob ←
18:28:35 <Zakim> -MartinD
Zakim IRC Bot: -MartinD ←
18:28:42 <Zakim> -Rinke
Zakim IRC Bot: -Rinke ←
18:28:53 <Zakim> -baojie
Zakim IRC Bot: -baojie ←
18:29:14 <Zakim> -??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P11 ←
18:29:35 <m_schnei> rrsagent, bye
rrsagent, bye ←
18:29:35 <RRSAgent> recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-owl-irc#T18-25-27
RRSAgent IRC Bot: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2008/07/09-owl-irc#T18-25-27 ←
Formatted by CommonScribe