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14:03:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/10-owl-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/03/10-owl-irc ←
14:03:53 <alanr> zakim, this is owl
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, this is owl ←
14:03:53 <Zakim> ok, alanr; that matches SW_OWL()10:00AM
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, alanr; that matches SW_OWL()10:00AM ←
14:03:58 <alanr> zakim, who is here?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←
14:03:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4, msmith, [IBM], Alan_Ruttenberg
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P4, msmith, [IBM], Alan_Ruttenberg ←
14:03:59 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, jjc, alanr, Zakim, Achille, bmotik, msmith, trackbot-ng, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, jjc, alanr, Zakim, Achille, bmotik, msmith, trackbot-ng, sandro ←
14:04:00 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
14:04:06 <jjc> zakim, ??P13 is me
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: zakim, ??P13 is me ←
14:04:06 <Zakim> +jjc; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jjc; got it ←
14:04:11 <bmotik> Zakim, ??p4 is me
Boris Motik: Zakim, ??p4 is me ←
14:04:11 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it ←
14:04:16 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
14:04:16 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
14:04:38 <alanr> zakim, who is here?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←
14:04:38 <Zakim> On the phone I see bmotik (muted), msmith, [IBM], Alan_Ruttenberg, jjc
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bmotik (muted), msmith, [IBM], Alan_Ruttenberg, jjc ←
14:04:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, jjc, alanr, Zakim, Achille, bmotik, msmith, trackbot-ng, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, jjc, alanr, Zakim, Achille, bmotik, msmith, trackbot-ng, sandro ←
14:05:05 <alanr> zakim, [IBM] is Achille
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, [IBM] is Achille ←
14:05:05 <Zakim> +Achille; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it ←
14:05:09 <alanr> zakim, who is here?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←
14:05:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see bmotik (muted), msmith, Achille, Alan_Ruttenberg, jjc
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bmotik (muted), msmith, Achille, Alan_Ruttenberg, jjc ←
14:05:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, jjc, alanr, Zakim, Achille, bmotik, msmith, trackbot-ng, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, jjc, alanr, Zakim, Achille, bmotik, msmith, trackbot-ng, sandro ←
14:05:47 <msmith> ScribeNick: msmith
(Scribe set to Michael Smith)
14:06:42 <alanr> I like the fact that imports is by location, but two use cases aren't satisfied - Tool independent redirection to off line versions, for editing purposes, and versioning, as you mention below, and as described on the imports page.
Alan Ruttenberg: I like the fact that imports is by location, but two use cases aren't satisfied - Tool independent redirection to off line versions, for editing purposes, and versioning, as you mention below, and as described on the imports page. ←
14:07:29 <msmith> alanr: open for discussion on current state
Alan Ruttenberg: open for discussion on current state ←
14:08:12 <jjc> We are discussing the text in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0110
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: We are discussing the text in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Mar/0110 ←
14:08:31 <msmith> achille: preferred solution would provide redirection, e.g., as in XML schema with a hint in the ontology
Achille Fokoue: preferred solution would provide redirection, e.g., as in XML schema with a hint in the ontology ←
14:08:41 <alanr> alanr has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Imports
Alan Ruttenberg: alanr has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Imports ←
14:09:27 <msmith> ...by location doesn't give as much flexibility.
...by location doesn't give as much flexibility. ←
14:09:35 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
14:09:40 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
14:09:40 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
14:09:58 <bmotik> q-
Boris Motik: q- ←
14:10:01 <msmith> bmotik: achille, which solution are you referring to?
Boris Motik: achille, which solution are you referring to? ←
14:10:24 <msmith> achille: owl 1.0 and submission version of owl 1.1
Achille Fokoue: owl 1.0 and submission version of owl 1.1 ←
14:11:06 <msmith> bmotik: but 1.0 was by location, 1.1 spec is by ontology URI, current proposals are by location with implementation override
Boris Motik: but 1.0 was by location, 1.1 spec is by ontology URI, current proposals are by location with implementation override ←
14:11:48 <msmith> achille: 1.0 by location is not what we want
Achille Fokoue: 1.0 by location is not what we want ←
14:11:54 <msmith> ...and I thought 1.1 was same
...and I thought 1.1 was same ←
14:12:19 <alanr> is the word "magic" there?
Alan Ruttenberg: is the word "magic" there? ←
14:12:19 <msmith> bmotik: no, 1.1 is by ontology URI (resolution to physical location is left unspecified)
Boris Motik: no, 1.1 is by ontology URI (resolution to physical location is left unspecified) ←
14:12:28 <alanr> -1 to magic
Alan Ruttenberg: -1 to magic ←
14:14:01 <msmith> bmotik: this is much about personal preference. on web is 1 use cae, but in many cases very difficult
Boris Motik: this is much about personal preference. on web is 1 use cae, but in many cases very difficult ←
14:14:28 <msmith> ...current proposal is by location with explicit statement about implementation overriding
...current proposal is by location with explicit statement about implementation overriding ←
14:14:56 <msmith> jjc: three points
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: three points ←
14:15:32 <msmith> ...1) we mentioned giving suggestion for location to physical URI. we can write that up
...1) we mentioned giving suggestion for location to physical URI. we can write that up ←
14:15:43 <alanr> hasn't gone away...
Alan Ruttenberg: hasn't gone away... ←
14:16:26 <msmith> ...2) ability to import RDF files, not OWL files (e.g., the foaf schema). I.e., cases where ontology label is not present
...2) ability to import RDF files, not OWL files (e.g., the foaf schema). I.e., cases where ontology label is not present ←
14:17:48 <msmith> ...i.e., a change to by name might change how we interop with owl 1.0
...i.e., a change to by name might change how we interop with owl 1.0 ←
14:19:09 <msmith> msmith: I am comfortable with current proposal (as described by boris) and some sort of hints. but hints need not be normative
Michael Smith: I am comfortable with current proposal (as described by boris) and some sort of hints. but hints need not be normative ←
14:19:45 <alanr> What is the point of having an ontology header at all? (just to poke at that)
Alan Ruttenberg: What is the point of having an ontology header at all? (just to poke at that) ←
14:20:12 <msmith> bmotik: to address jjc use case 2, it could be handled by making a special condition when header is not present
Boris Motik: to address jjc use case 2, it could be handled by making a special condition when header is not present ←
14:20:27 <msmith> achille: this sounds like by name
Achille Fokoue: this sounds like by name ←
14:20:28 <Zakim> +Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: +Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
14:20:42 <msmith> bmotik: on the web name == location
Boris Motik: on the web name == location ←
14:20:58 <alanr> hi peter
Alan Ruttenberg: hi peter ←
14:21:05 <alanr> zakim, bookmark
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, bookmark ←
14:21:05 <Zakim> I don't understand 'bookmark', alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'bookmark', alanr ←
14:21:08 <msmith> achille: concern is that we're talking about URI, not URL. this is conceptual
Achille Fokoue: concern is that we're talking about URI, not URL. this is conceptual ←
14:21:10 <pfps> zakim, who is on the phone?
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is on the phone? ←
14:21:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see bmotik, msmith, Achille, Alan_Ruttenberg, jjc, Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bmotik, msmith, Achille, Alan_Ruttenberg, jjc, Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
14:21:13 <msmith> q+
q+ ←
14:21:20 <msmith> q-
q- ←
14:21:30 <alanr> rrsagent, bookmark
Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, bookmark ←
14:21:30 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/03/10-owl-irc#T14-21-30
RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/03/10-owl-irc#T14-21-30 ←
14:21:57 <msmith> achille: I might phrase this differently. It is import by name, and by default location should be the same location
Achille Fokoue: I might phrase this differently. It is import by name, and by default location should be the same location ←
14:22:07 <msmith> bmotik: that's the way I want to look at it.
Boris Motik: that's the way I want to look at it. ←
14:22:34 <msmith> achille: ok. this is a matter of taste and perspective
Achille Fokoue: ok. this is a matter of taste and perspective ←
14:22:43 <pfps> it needs to made readable
Peter Patel-Schneider: it needs to made readable ←
14:22:56 <alanr> rrsagent, make log public
Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, make log public ←
14:23:48 <msmith> alanr: jjc's point on files w/o ontology header is new and important
Alan Ruttenberg: jjc's point on files w/o ontology header is new and important ←
14:24:07 <msmith> ...I like assumption of import by location
...I like assumption of import by location ←
14:24:46 <msmith> ...I like minimum specified for import redirection (mapping of names)
...I like minimum specified for import redirection (mapping of names) ←
14:25:28 <jjc> q+ to suggest *informative* remapping rules ...
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: q+ to suggest *informative* remapping rules ... ←
14:25:39 <msmith> ...can we discuss why we need ontology header at all? I don't see need to check name vs location loaded from
...can we discuss why we need ontology header at all? I don't see need to check name vs location loaded from ←
14:25:41 <bmotik> q+ to discuss checking ontology headers
Boris Motik: q+ to discuss checking ontology headers ←
14:26:35 <msmith> pfps: my recent email covers my position
Peter Patel-Schneider: my recent email covers my position ←
14:26:56 <msmith> ... http://www.w3.org/mid/20080307.100929.46881308.pfps@research.bell-labs.com
... http://www.w3.org/mid/20080307.100929.46881308.pfps@research.bell-labs.com ←
14:28:03 <msmith> jjc: I'd prefer *informative* mapping rules b/c this is an interoperability point that is not too important
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: I'd prefer *informative* mapping rules b/c this is an interoperability point that is not too important ←
14:28:09 <pfps> +1 to jeremy's position
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to jeremy's position ←
14:28:26 <alanr> ack jjc
Alan Ruttenberg: ack jjc ←
14:28:26 <Zakim> jjc, you wanted to suggest *informative* remapping rules ...
Zakim IRC Bot: jjc, you wanted to suggest *informative* remapping rules ... ←
14:28:29 <bmotik> +1 to jeremy
Boris Motik: +1 to jeremy ←
14:28:40 <alanr> -1 to not important
Alan Ruttenberg: -1 to not important ←
14:29:38 <msmith> bmotik: if name and location should be the same, then it is dangerous if header is different. additional check, in case where header is present, is helpful.
Boris Motik: if name and location should be the same, then it is dangerous if header is different. additional check, in case where header is present, is helpful. ←
14:29:38 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
14:29:42 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
14:29:42 <Zakim> bmotik, you wanted to discuss checking ontology headers
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik, you wanted to discuss checking ontology headers ←
14:29:43 <bmotik> q-
Boris Motik: q- ←
14:30:20 <msmith> alanr: I judge importance of mapping higher than stated
Alan Ruttenberg: I judge importance of mapping higher than stated ←
14:30:39 <msmith> ...curious to what damage would be with simple normative mechanism
...curious to what damage would be with simple normative mechanism ←
14:31:29 <msmith> ...specify mapping file, tool should respect unless it is explicitly overridden
...specify mapping file, tool should respect unless it is explicitly overridden ←
14:31:59 <pfps> what is an "ontology header"?
Peter Patel-Schneider: what is an "ontology header"? ←
14:32:14 <pfps> what is an "ontology element"?
Peter Patel-Schneider: what is an "ontology element"? ←
14:32:30 <msmith> alanr: re ontology header, I *thought* that avoiding repeated import of the same ontology would be presented as a motivating use case
Alan Ruttenberg: re ontology header, I *thought* that avoiding repeated import of the same ontology would be presented as a motivating use case ←
14:32:33 <pfps> yes, but which one?
Peter Patel-Schneider: yes, but which one? ←
14:32:52 <pfps> the RDF situation is completely broken
Peter Patel-Schneider: the RDF situation is completely broken ←
14:32:59 <msmith> bmotik: ontology header is naming triple
Boris Motik: ontology header is naming triple ←
14:33:12 <msmith> alanr: as pfps points out, there can be more than one
Alan Ruttenberg: as pfps points out, there can be more than one ←
14:33:39 <pfps> q+
14:33:45 <alanr> ACK alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ACK alanr ←
14:33:47 <msmith> alanr: I've never run into the case where tool helps user based on checking the header
Alan Ruttenberg: I've never run into the case where tool helps user based on checking the header ←
14:33:50 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
14:33:53 <jjc> q+ to argue for ontology header (as devil's advocate ....)
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: q+ to argue for ontology header (as devil's advocate ....) ←
14:34:19 <alanr> jjc - how about saying what the damage is for having normative mechanism
Alan Ruttenberg: jjc - how about saying what the damage is for having normative mechanism ←
14:34:30 <pfps> that doesn't work unless you change imports and ontology properties
Peter Patel-Schneider: that doesn't work unless you change imports and ontology properties ←
14:34:36 <msmith> bmotik: I agree the RDF case is broken, but that is b/c there isn't a ontology to graph mapping
Boris Motik: I agree the RDF case is broken, but that is b/c there isn't a ontology to graph mapping ←
14:34:49 <alanr> ack jjc
Alan Ruttenberg: ack jjc ←
14:34:49 <Zakim> jjc, you wanted to argue for ontology header (as devil's advocate ....)
Zakim IRC Bot: jjc, you wanted to argue for ontology header (as devil's advocate ....) ←
14:35:19 <msmith> pfps: a couple problems on rdf side re: what is the ontology?
Peter Patel-Schneider: a couple problems on rdf side re: what is the ontology? ←
14:35:22 <bmotik> bmotik: We could fix RDF to assign at most one URI to each RDF graph
Boris Motik: We could fix RDF to assign at most one URI to each RDF graph [ Scribe Assist by Boris Motik ] ←
14:36:28 <alanr> we could change this
Alan Ruttenberg: we could change this ←
14:36:35 <msmith> bmotik: in many cases ontology is not explicitly typed
Boris Motik: in many cases ontology is not explicitly typed ←
14:36:47 <msmith> jjc: I think to be legal 1.0 is must be explicit
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: I think to be legal 1.0 is must be explicit ←
14:36:56 <msmith> bmotik: I don't see that in many cases on the web
Boris Motik: I don't see that in many cases on the web ←
14:37:32 <msmith> jjc: type triple is in imported, not importer
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: type triple is in imported, not importer ←
14:37:59 <msmith> alanr: what's damage of normative mechanism
Alan Ruttenberg: what's damage of normative mechanism ←
14:38:42 <alanr> q+ to say that all redirection mechanism boil down to the same thing
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to say that all redirection mechanism boil down to the same thing ←
14:38:43 <msmith> jjc: wg are bad at specifying anything. design by committee is wrong answer unless required.
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: wg are bad at specifying anything. design by committee is wrong answer unless required. ←
14:39:03 <alanr> q+ to add my suggestion allows override
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to add my suggestion allows override ←
14:39:04 <bmotik> But would we close this down?
Boris Motik: But would we close this down? ←
14:39:05 <msmith> ...being normative would prevent implementers from being smarter than us
...being normative would prevent implementers from being smarter than us ←
14:39:16 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
14:39:21 <bmotik> Developers could always implement *additional* mechanisms...
Boris Motik: Developers could always implement *additional* mechanisms... ←
14:39:28 <alanr> ack
Alan Ruttenberg: ack ←
14:39:55 <msmith> alanr: agree with boris' irc comments. normative mechanism is only a baseline and any other mechanism could override the normative mechanism
Alan Ruttenberg: agree with boris' irc comments. normative mechanism is only a baseline and any other mechanism could override the normative mechanism ←
14:40:06 <pfps> q+
14:40:09 <msmith> ... at least then, we would have the basic interop
... at least then, we would have the basic interop ←
14:40:12 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
14:40:16 <alanr> alanr alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: alanr alanr ←
14:40:19 <alanr> q+ pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ pfps ←
14:40:22 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
14:40:22 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to say that all redirection mechanism boil down to the same thing and to add my suggestion allows override
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to say that all redirection mechanism boil down to the same thing and to add my suggestion allows override ←
14:40:33 <msmith> ... current tools all have the same basic mapping approach
... current tools all have the same basic mapping approach ←
14:40:35 <pfps> q+ to talk about installation difficulties
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to talk about installation difficulties ←
14:40:40 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
14:40:40 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to talk about installation difficulties
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, you wanted to talk about installation difficulties ←
14:40:44 <msmith> jjc: ontology header useful for metadata about the ontology
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: ontology header useful for metadata about the ontology ←
14:41:03 <msmith> pfps: worries about working system that doesn't have root privileges
Peter Patel-Schneider: worries about working system that doesn't have root privileges ←
14:41:21 <msmith> ... you're talking about a common mapping between multiple tools and multiple users
... you're talking about a common mapping between multiple tools and multiple users ←
14:42:34 <msmith> alanr: interop here means moving from tool to tool w/o modifying my ontologies, or not changing mapping mechanism
Alan Ruttenberg: interop here means moving from tool to tool w/o modifying my ontologies, or not changing mapping mechanism ←
14:42:53 <msmith> pfps: I'm unconvinced, you're only solving 1/10th of the problem
Peter Patel-Schneider: I'm unconvinced, you're only solving 1/10th of the problem ←
14:42:59 <bmotik> I agree with Peter
Boris Motik: I agree with Peter ←
14:43:09 <jjc> q+ to support peter
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: q+ to support peter ←
14:43:11 <msmith> ...it will only work sometimes, therefore cause more problems than it solves
...it will only work sometimes, therefore cause more problems than it solves ←
14:43:13 <bmotik> +q
Boris Motik: +q ←
14:43:42 <msmith> ...normative mechanism should facilitate collaborative editing
...normative mechanism should facilitate collaborative editing ←
14:43:45 <alanr> ack jjc
Alan Ruttenberg: ack jjc ←
14:43:45 <Zakim> jjc, you wanted to support peter
Zakim IRC Bot: jjc, you wanted to support peter ←
14:43:50 <msmith> alanr: that's a different use case
Alan Ruttenberg: that's a different use case ←
14:44:37 <alanr> q+ to ask what root privs have to do with anything
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask what root privs have to do with anything ←
14:44:59 <alanr> q+ don't see we can't specify
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ don't see we can't specify ←
14:45:00 <msmith> jjc: when talking applications vs. ontologies worrying about overcoming things like security issues is necessary, and those things are outside our area
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: when talking applications vs. ontologies worrying about overcoming things like security issues is necessary, and those things are outside our area ←
14:45:08 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
14:45:29 <msmith> bmotik: I'm fine saying there is some mechanism, there need not be an override
Boris Motik: I'm fine saying there is some mechanism, there need not be an override ←
14:45:49 <jjc> q+ to give a further problem of interop
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: q+ to give a further problem of interop ←
14:46:09 <msmith> ...this could be difficult b/c, e.g., where is the mapping file located? local homedir, on web, file open dialog, database?
...this could be difficult b/c, e.g., where is the mapping file located? local homedir, on web, file open dialog, database? ←
14:46:12 <alanr> you have to give a uri to your tool somehow.
Alan Ruttenberg: you have to give a uri to your tool somehow. ←
14:46:19 <msmith> ...it would be useful, but I don't think it is necessary
...it would be useful, but I don't think it is necessary ←
14:46:20 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
14:46:20 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask what root privs have to do with anything
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to ask what root privs have to do with anything ←
14:46:29 <msmith> ...and it may be too complex
...and it may be too complex ←
14:46:40 <jjc> q-
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: q- ←
14:46:45 <msmith> ... doing so may require too many assumptions to be useful
... doing so may require too many assumptions to be useful ←
14:46:58 <msmith> alanr: I don't see the complexity
Alan Ruttenberg: I don't see the complexity ←
14:47:10 <pfps> q+
14:47:22 <jjc> q+
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: q+ ←
14:47:35 <msmith> ... any tool needs some way to specify where an ontology is. the mapping file requires the same thing.
... any tool needs some way to specify where an ontology is. the mapping file requires the same thing. ←
14:47:37 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
14:48:24 <msmith> pfps: if you had, any tool could point to some location which would contain some mapping files, then its easier, but then user must arrange to have the mapping files be the same
Peter Patel-Schneider: if you had, any tool could point to some location which would contain some mapping files, then its easier, but then user must arrange to have the mapping files be the same ←
14:48:26 <bmotik> +1 to peter
Boris Motik: +1 to peter ←
14:49:39 <msmith> ... I see problems for implementers b/c functionality would only be used sometimes
... I see problems for implementers b/c functionality would only be used sometimes ←
14:49:50 <msmith> ... the inconsistency would be problematic
... the inconsistency would be problematic ←
14:49:59 <bmotik> +q to give an example of a system that thes not use files at all
Boris Motik: +q to give an example of a system that thes not use files at all ←
14:50:13 <alanr> ack jjc
Alan Ruttenberg: ack jjc ←
14:50:26 <msmith> alanr: this makes everyone suffer b/c some people will do silly things. but we know this can be useful in some cases
Alan Ruttenberg: this makes everyone suffer b/c some people will do silly things. but we know this can be useful in some cases ←
14:51:05 <alanr> q+ to ask how this is any different from import by location?
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask how this is any different from import by location? ←
14:51:06 <msmith> jjc: maybe a tool specific URI format. so remapping interoperably is already limiting storage types
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: maybe a tool specific URI format. so remapping interoperably is already limiting storage types ←
14:51:38 <msmith> ....e.g., jena users have complained about internal URIs that aren't meant for interoperability
....e.g., jena users have complained about internal URIs that aren't meant for interoperability ←
14:52:24 <msmith> bmotik: ontoprise people use ontologies without any files b/c they are all stored in a database. Requiring a "file" doesn't make sense
Boris Motik: ontoprise people use ontologies without any files b/c they are all stored in a database. Requiring a "file" doesn't make sense ←
14:52:29 <alanr> q+ to ask where we have consensus
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask where we have consensus ←
14:52:29 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
14:52:29 <alanr> ao
Alan Ruttenberg: ao ←
14:52:30 <Zakim> bmotik, you wanted to give an example of a system that thes not use files at all
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik, you wanted to give an example of a system that thes not use files at all ←
14:52:49 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
14:52:49 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask how this is any different from import by location? and to ask where we have consensus
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to ask how this is any different from import by location? and to ask where we have consensus ←
14:53:01 <msmith> alanr: do we agree on import by location?
Alan Ruttenberg: do we agree on import by location? ←
14:53:06 <jjc> +1
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: +1 ←
14:53:11 <msmith> bmotik: with override
Boris Motik: with override ←
14:53:14 <msmith> alanr: yes.
Alan Ruttenberg: yes. ←
14:53:15 <jjc> +1
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: +1 ←
14:53:15 <Achille> +1 with override
Achille Fokoue: +1 with override ←
14:53:17 <msmith> +1
+1 ←
14:53:21 <bmotik> +1 to import by location with an override
Boris Motik: +1 to import by location with an override ←
14:53:56 <msmith> alanr: not in agreement on what is in ontology header. there are issues with current rdf version. we don't have a mechanism to fix that.
Alan Ruttenberg: not in agreement on what is in ontology header. there are issues with current rdf version. we don't have a mechanism to fix that. ←
14:54:08 <bmotik> 0
Boris Motik: 0 ←
14:54:09 <msmith> alanr: consensus on informative rediction being acceptable?
Alan Ruttenberg: consensus on informative redirection being acceptable? ←
14:54:43 <msmith> s/rediction/redirection/
14:54:44 <pfps> I'm willing to have the spec say that tools can override
Peter Patel-Schneider: I'm willing to have the spec say that tools can override ←
14:54:56 <jjc> +0
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: +0 ←
14:55:02 <bmotik> +0 because I see it as useful, but if it costs us too much time to come up, then I would drop it.
Boris Motik: +0 because I see it as useful, but if it costs us too much time to come up, then I would drop it. ←
14:55:02 <Achille> +1
Achille Fokoue: +1 ←
14:55:09 <msmith> alanr: we agree we might specify *informative* method for redirection
Alan Ruttenberg: we agree we might specify *informative* method for redirection ←
14:55:11 <msmith> ?
? ←
14:55:36 <pfps> +.5
Peter Patel-Schneider: +.5 ←
14:55:44 <msmith> +0 with boris' comments
+0 with boris' comments ←
14:56:03 <msmith> alanr: we have close enough to agreement
Alan Ruttenberg: we have close enough to agreement ←
14:56:15 <jjc> q+ to note weakness of vote for informative mechanism
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: q+ to note weakness of vote for informative mechanism ←
14:56:19 <pfps> and versioning
Peter Patel-Schneider: and versioning ←
14:56:22 <alanr> ack jjc
Alan Ruttenberg: ack jjc ←
14:56:22 <Zakim> jjc, you wanted to note weakness of vote for informative mechanism
Zakim IRC Bot: jjc, you wanted to note weakness of vote for informative mechanism ←
14:56:25 <msmith> no one objects
no one objects ←
14:56:43 <msmith> jjc: there were 2.5 votes for informative mechanism, which appears to be below consensus
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: there were 2.5 votes for informative mechanism, which appears to be below consensus ←
14:56:47 <msmith> -1 to raising this in main wg
-1 to raising this in main wg ←
14:57:07 <msmith> jjc: maybe we should raise at main wg
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: maybe we should raise at main wg ←
14:57:12 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
14:57:19 <msmith> alanr: just meant as straw poll, to see where we were
Alan Ruttenberg: just meant as straw poll, to see where we were ←
14:57:49 <bmotik> +q to answer about the DB case
Boris Motik: +q to answer about the DB case ←
14:58:03 <msmith> alanr: case of database storage of ontologies, if imports are specified by location we don't handle those cases
Alan Ruttenberg: case of database storage of ontologies, if imports are specified by location we don't handle those cases ←
14:58:23 <msmith> q+ to ask clarifying question for db case
q+ to ask clarifying question for db case ←
14:58:34 <msmith> alanr: override makes it possible
Alan Ruttenberg: override makes it possible ←
14:59:05 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
14:59:05 <Zakim> bmotik, you wanted to answer about the DB case
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik, you wanted to answer about the DB case ←
14:59:06 <msmith> bmotik: yes. the database case is something a tool can do
Boris Motik: yes. the database case is something a tool can do ←
14:59:38 <alanr> bye
Alan Ruttenberg: bye ←
14:59:39 <msmith> ...point is define as by location with override. then tool can do whatever it wants
...point is define as by location with override. then tool can do whatever it wants ←
14:59:40 <msmith> q-
q- ←
14:59:42 <Zakim> -jjc
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 50 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Héctor Pérez Urbina Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Jie Bao Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -jjc ←
14:59:58 <msmith> ...if informative mapping, then tool can ignore
...if informative mapping, then tool can ignore ←
15:00:08 <msmith> ...if normative, it would constrain tool
...if normative, it would constrain tool ←
15:00:17 <msmith> alanr: you may have misunderstood
Alan Ruttenberg: you may have misunderstood ←
15:00:23 <msmith> ... proposal is 3 levels
... proposal is 3 levels ←
15:00:32 <msmith> ... 1) by location (in ontology)
... 1) by location (in ontology) ←
15:00:44 <msmith> ... 2) mapping specified
... 2) mapping specified ←
15:00:49 <msmith> ... 3) override by tool
... 3) override by tool ←
15:01:10 <msmith> bmotik: how did we get there? that's not how I understood the straw poll
Boris Motik: how did we get there? that's not how I understood the straw poll ←
15:02:12 <msmith> alanr: I was addressing the database case. and whether it would make a *normative* mapping mechanism worse
Alan Ruttenberg: I was addressing the database case. and whether it would make a *normative* mapping mechanism worse ←
15:02:35 <msmith> bmotik: normative mechanism puts assumption on how tools work with ontologies
Boris Motik: normative mechanism puts assumption on how tools work with ontologies ←
15:02:48 <alanr> a tool can do whatever it wants. But if it does nothing, then it respects the mechanism specified.
Alan Ruttenberg: a tool can do whatever it wants. But if it does nothing, then it respects the mechanism specified. ←
15:03:14 <pfps> +1
15:03:17 <Achille> +1
Achille Fokoue: +1 ←
15:03:18 <msmith> alanr: sounds like one more meeting, then go back to wg?
Alan Ruttenberg: sounds like one more meeting, then go back to wg? ←
15:03:19 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
15:03:20 <msmith> +1
+1 ←
15:03:29 <Zakim> -Alan_Ruttenberg
Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan_Ruttenberg ←
15:03:31 <Zakim> -msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←
15:03:31 <Zakim> -bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←
15:03:32 <Zakim> -Achille
Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille ←
15:04:30 <alanr> rrsagent, draft minutes
Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
15:04:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/10-owl-minutes.html alanr
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/03/10-owl-minutes.html alanr ←
15:04:50 <alanr> rrsagent, make minutes world-readable
Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, make minutes world-readable ←
15:04:50 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-readable', alanr. Try /msg RRSAgent help
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-readable', alanr. Try /msg RRSAgent help ←
15:04:58 <alanr> rrsagent, make minutes world readable
Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, make minutes world readable ←
15:04:58 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world readable', alanr. Try /msg RRSAgent help
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world readable', alanr. Try /msg RRSAgent help ←
15:05:05 <alanr> rrsagent, make minutes public
Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, make minutes public ←
15:05:05 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', alanr. Try /msg RRSAgent help
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', alanr. Try /msg RRSAgent help ←
15:05:41 <Zakim> -Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: -Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
15:05:43 <Zakim> SW_OWL()10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()10:00AM has ended ←
15:05:46 <Zakim> Attendees were msmith, Alan_Ruttenberg, jjc, bmotik, Achille, Peter_Patel-Schneider
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were msmith, Alan_Ruttenberg, jjc, bmotik, Achille, Peter_Patel-Schneider ←
Formatted by CommonScribe