Meeting Record

OWL Working Group

Minutes of 20 February 2008

Present

Peter Patel-Schneider, Unknown unknown, Michael Smith, Ivan Herman, Rinke Hoekstra, Markus Krötzsch, Michael Schneider, Boris Motik, Uli Sattler, Unknown jjc, Achille Fokoue, Bernardo Cuenca Grau, Sandro Hawke, Alan Ruttenberg, Bijan Parsia, Ian Horrocks

Chair

Ian Horrocks, Peter Patel-Schneider

Scribe

Zhe Wu

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

accept minutes of http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.13/Minutes link

Topics

accept previous minutes
pending actions review
Due and overdue actions
Fragments and Conformance (Continued)
action 16
issue 69

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17:56:57 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-owl-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-owl-irc ←

17:57:48 <Zakim> -??P0

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P0 ←

17:57:57 <pfps_> zakim, who is on the phone?

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is on the phone? ←

17:57:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps ←

17:58:41 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←

17:58:59 <pfps_> zakim, pfps is pfps_work

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, pfps is pfps_work ←

17:58:59 <Zakim> +pfps_work; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps_work; got it ←

17:59:07 <pfps_> zakim, pfps_ is pfps

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, pfps_ is pfps ←

17:59:07 <Zakim> +pfps; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it ←

17:59:15 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←

17:59:15 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←

17:59:16 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←

17:59:18 <Zakim> + +1.202.408.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.202.408.aaaa ←

17:59:22 <pfps_> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

17:59:22 <Zakim> sorry, pfps_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, pfps_, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you ←

17:59:34 <MichaelSmith> zakim, aaaa is me

Michael Smith: zakim, aaaa is me ←

17:59:34 <Zakim> +MichaelSmith; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +MichaelSmith; got it ←

17:59:41 <pfps_> zakim, who is on the phone?

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is on the phone? ←

17:59:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, [IPcaller] (muted), MichaelSmith, Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps, [IPcaller] (muted), MichaelSmith, Ivan ←

17:59:45 <Zakim> + +31.20.525.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +31.20.525.aabb ←

17:59:52 <pfps_> zakim, pfps is me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, pfps is me ←

17:59:52 <Zakim> +pfps_; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps_; got it ←

17:59:53 <Rinke> Zakim, aabb is me

Rinke Hoekstra: Zakim, aabb is me ←

17:59:54 <Zakim> +Rinke; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Rinke; got it ←

17:59:59 <Zakim> + +0186527aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0186527aacc ←

18:00:26 <IanH> zakim, aacc is IanH

Ian Horrocks: zakim, aacc is IanH ←

18:00:26 <Zakim> +IanH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH; got it ←

18:00:30 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes

Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

18:00:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-owl-minutes.html ivan

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-owl-minutes.html ivan ←

18:00:32 <Zakim> +??P5

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P5 ←

18:00:43 <IanH> zakim, who is on the call

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is on the call ←

18:00:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the call', IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'who is on the call', IanH ←

18:00:51 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←

18:00:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps_, [IPcaller] (muted), MichaelSmith, Ivan, Rinke, IanH, MarkusK

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps_, [IPcaller] (muted), MichaelSmith, Ivan, Rinke, IanH, MarkusK ←

18:00:54 <m_schnei> there was no id shown in IRC after I called in - what to do?

Michael Schneider: there was no id shown in IRC after I called in - what to do? ←

18:00:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see uli, bmotik, ivan, IanH, MichaelSmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, MarkusK, bcuencagrau, m_schnei, Rinke, pfps_, Carsten, sandro, pfps, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see uli, bmotik, ivan, IanH, MichaelSmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, MarkusK, bcuencagrau, m_schnei, Rinke, pfps_, Carsten, sandro, pfps, trackbot-ng ←

18:00:56 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aadd ←

18:01:02 <Zakim> +??P7

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7 ←

18:01:08 <bmotik> Zakim, ??P7 is me

Boris Motik: Zakim, ??P7 is me ←

18:01:08 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it ←

18:01:14 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←

18:01:14 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←

18:01:18 <ivan> rrsagent, set log public

Ivan Herman: rrsagent, set log public ←

18:01:43 <pfps_> zakim, who is on the phone?

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is on the phone? ←

18:01:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps_, [IPcaller] (muted), MichaelSmith, Ivan, Rinke, IanH, MarkusK, +1.603.897.aadd, bmotik (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps_, [IPcaller] (muted), MichaelSmith, Ivan, Rinke, IanH, MarkusK, +1.603.897.aadd, bmotik (muted) ←

18:01:57 <m_schnei> zakim, aadd is me

Michael Schneider: zakim, aadd is me ←

18:01:57 <Zakim> +m_schnei; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +m_schnei; got it ←

18:02:01 <Zakim> +??P8

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←

18:02:07 <MichaelSmith> ScribeNick: zhe

(Scribe set to Zhe Wu)

18:02:11 <uli> zakim, ??P8 is me

Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P8 is me ←

18:02:11 <Zakim> +uli; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +uli; got it ←

18:02:36 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←

18:02:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps_, [IPcaller] (muted), MichaelSmith, Ivan, Rinke, IanH, MarkusK, m_schnei, bmotik (muted), uli

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps_, [IPcaller] (muted), MichaelSmith, Ivan, Rinke, IanH, MarkusK, m_schnei, bmotik (muted), uli ←

18:02:38 <uli> zakim, mute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←

18:02:38 <Zakim> On IRC I see Achille, zhe, uli, bmotik, ivan, IanH, MichaelSmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, MarkusK, bcuencagrau, m_schnei, Rinke, pfps_, Carsten, sandro, pfps, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Achille, zhe, uli, bmotik, ivan, IanH, MichaelSmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, MarkusK, bcuencagrau, m_schnei, Rinke, pfps_, Carsten, sandro, pfps, trackbot-ng ←

18:02:40 <Zakim> uli should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←

18:02:41 <Zakim> +??P9

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P9 ←

18:03:08 <Zakim> +[IBM]

Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←

18:03:14 <jjc> Zakim, ??P9 is me

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: Zakim, ??P9 is me ←

18:03:14 <Zakim> +jjc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jjc; got it ←

18:03:16 <Zakim> +??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←

18:03:21 <jjc> q- ??P9

Unknown jjc: q- ??P9 ←

18:03:22 <zhe> Topic: accept previous minutes

1. accept previous minutes

18:03:22 <Rinke> look good

Rinke Hoekstra: look good ←

18:03:24 <Achille> Zakim, IBM is Achille

Achille Fokoue: Zakim, IBM is Achille ←

18:03:24 <Zakim> +Achille; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it ←

18:03:25 <pfps_> minutes are OK

Peter Patel-Schneider: minutes are OK ←

18:03:32 <zhe> PROPOSED: accept previous previous minutes

PROPOSED: accept previous previous minutes ←

18:03:37 <IanH> Proposed: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.13/Minutes

PROPOSED: accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.13/Minutes ←

18:03:40 <ivan> zakim, who is here?

Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here? ←

18:03:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps_ (muted), [IPcaller] (muted), MichaelSmith, Ivan, Rinke, IanH, MarkusK, m_schnei, bmotik (muted), uli (muted), jjc, Achille, ??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps_ (muted), [IPcaller] (muted), MichaelSmith, Ivan, Rinke, IanH, MarkusK, m_schnei, bmotik (muted), uli (muted), jjc, Achille, ??P11 ←

18:03:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see jjc, Achille, zhe, uli, bmotik, ivan, IanH, MichaelSmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, MarkusK, bcuencagrau, m_schnei, Rinke, pfps_, Carsten, sandro, pfps, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see jjc, Achille, zhe, uli, bmotik, ivan, IanH, MichaelSmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, MarkusK, bcuencagrau, m_schnei, Rinke, pfps_, Carsten, sandro, pfps, trackbot-ng ←

18:03:43 <pfps_> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 ←

18:03:48 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←

18:03:51 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, ??P11 is me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, ??P11 is me ←

18:03:51 <Zakim> +bcuencagrau; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencagrau; got it ←

18:04:00 <Zakim> + +49.351.463.3.aaee

Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.351.463.3.aaee ←

18:04:03 <zhe> RESOLVED: accept minutes of http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.13/Minutes

RESOLVED: accept minutes of http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.13/Minutes ←

18:04:05 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←

18:04:11 <bcuencagrau> Zakim, mute me

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, mute me ←

18:04:11 <Zakim> bcuencagrau should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencagrau should now be muted ←

18:04:13 <Carsten> zakim, aaee is me

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: zakim, aaee is me ←

18:04:13 <Zakim> +Carsten; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Carsten; got it ←

18:04:27 <jjc> Zakim, who is speaking?

Unknown jjc: Zakim, who is speaking? ←

18:04:44 <Zakim> jjc, listening for 16 seconds I heard sound from the following: IanH (15%)

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc, listening for 16 seconds I heard sound from the following: IanH (15%) ←

18:04:47 <sandro> zakim, drop sandro

Sandro Hawke: zakim, drop sandro ←

18:04:47 <Zakim> Sandro is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Sandro is being disconnected ←

18:04:49 <zhe> strange phone call ...

strange phone call ... ←

18:04:49 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←

18:05:07 <Carsten> Will the whole telecon fit on that answering machine?

Unknown Carsten: Will the whole telecon fit on that answering machine? ←

18:05:09 <sandro> I'm trying to have Zakim call me, since I don't seem to be able to enter DTMF on this system.   :-(

Sandro Hawke: I'm trying to have Zakim call me, since I don't seem to be able to enter DTMF on this system. :-( ←

18:05:25 <sandro> But it didn't ring through here, either.  :-(

Sandro Hawke: But it didn't ring through here, either. :-( ←

18:05:37 <zhe> Topic: pending actions review

2. pending actions review

18:06:15 <zhe> action 87 completed.

ACTION-87 completed. ←

18:06:26 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←

18:06:47 <jjc> Zakim, who is speaking?

Unknown jjc: Zakim, who is speaking? ←

18:06:52 <zhe> action 88 completed (punning and owl lite)

ACTION-88 completed (punning and owl lite) ←

18:07:06 <Zakim> jjc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: IanH (90%)

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: IanH (90%) ←

18:07:23 <zhe> action 89 completed--Investigate QA group advised recently to have "as few parts as possible"

ACTION-89 completed--Investigate QA group advised recently to have "as few parts as possible" ←

18:07:33 <zhe> Topic: Due and overdue actions

3. Due and overdue actions

18:07:51 <zhe> action 43 unlikely to happen soon

ACTION-43 unlikely to happen soon ←

18:07:56 <sandro> zakim, unmute me

Sandro Hawke: zakim, unmute me ←

18:07:56 <Zakim> Sandro should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Sandro should no longer be muted ←

18:08:17 <zhe> IanH: update due date?

Ian Horrocks: update due date? ←

18:08:36 <zhe> IanH:  action 43 Develop scripts to extract test cases from wiki

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-43 Develop scripts to extract test cases from wiki ←

18:08:40 <sandro> zakim, mute me

Sandro Hawke: zakim, mute me ←

18:08:40 <Zakim> Sandro should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Sandro should now be muted ←

18:08:55 <zhe> no action on sandro to update

no action on sandro to update ←

18:09:01 <jjc> Zakim, unmute me

Unknown jjc: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:09:01 <Zakim> jjc should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc should no longer be muted ←

18:09:02 <pfps_> action 43 - move due date to three weeks from now

Peter Patel-Schneider: ACTION-43 - move due date to three weeks from now ←

18:09:03 <Zakim> +Alan_Ruttenberg

Zakim IRC Bot: +Alan_Ruttenberg ←

18:09:08 <zhe> action 86  Send proposal for issue-91 ontology property

ACTION-86 Send proposal for ISSUE-91 ontology property ←

18:09:26 <m_schnei> we are talking about 91 today anyway

Michael Schneider: we are talking about 91 today anyway ←

18:09:30 <zhe> IanH: jjc to update due date

Ian Horrocks: jjc to update due date ←

18:09:41 <zhe> IanH: general dicussions

Ian Horrocks: general dicussions ←

18:09:54 <zhe> Topic:  Fragments and Conformance (Continued)

4. Fragments and Conformance (Continued)

18:10:04 <zhe> IanH: can we get a working agreement

Ian Horrocks: can we get a working agreement ←

18:10:31 <zhe> IanH: Jim is not here.

Ian Horrocks: Jim is not here. ←

18:10:58 <zhe> IanH: everyone see the email from Alan?

Ian Horrocks: everyone see the email from Alan? ←

18:11:03 <uli> yes

Uli Sattler: yes ←

18:11:04 <pfps_> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 ←

18:11:04 <Carsten> yes

Unknown Carsten: yes ←

18:11:05 <MichaelSmith> yes

Michael Smith: yes ←

18:11:07 <bcuencagrau> yes

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: yes ←

18:11:09 <m_schnei> yes

Michael Schneider: yes ←

18:11:09 <zhe> yes

yes ←

18:11:18 <pfps_> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Feb/0120.html

Peter Patel-Schneider: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Feb/0120.html ←

18:11:26 <zhe> ivan will post emails

ivan will post emails ←

18:11:53 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/CEFF86FB-D70A-4DC4-9D14-627841E3644B@gmail.com Alan's last email on the topic

Ivan Herman: -> http://www.w3.org/mid/CEFF86FB-D70A-4DC4-9D14-627841E3644B@gmail.com Alan's last email on the topic ←

18:11:55 <zhe> IanH: common understanding of fragmetns

Ian Horrocks: common understanding of fragmetns ←

18:12:12 <zhe> IanH: too many fragments is not a good idea

Ian Horrocks: too many fragments is not a good idea ←

18:12:39 <zhe> IanH: Alan's original email: OWLPrime, EL++, DL Lite

Ian Horrocks: Alan's original email: OWLPrime, EL++, DL Lite ←

18:12:41 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:12:46 <zhe> ... for rec track

... for rec track ←

18:12:46 <Carsten> I like the suggestion

Unknown Carsten: I like the suggestion ←

18:12:48 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:12:53 <pfps_> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

18:12:53 <Zakim> pfps_ should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps_ should no longer be muted ←

18:12:55 <Achille> q+

Achille Fokoue: q+ ←

18:12:55 <jjc> q+

Unknown jjc: q+ ←

18:13:04 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:13:34 <zhe> Achille: just sent an email. IBM's position is have limited # of fragments.

Achille Fokoue: just sent an email. IBM's position is have limited # of fragments. ←

18:13:44 <zhe> ... not proposing a new one.

... not proposing a new one. ←

18:13:58 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/OF8A909D25.D5959144-ON852573F5.0062248F-852573F5.00623812@us.ibm.com Achille's answer email

Ivan Herman: -> http://www.w3.org/mid/OF8A909D25.D5959144-ON852573F5.0062248F-852573F5.00623812@us.ibm.com Achille's answer email ←

18:14:01 <zhe> ... need something that suits customer's needs

... need something that suits customer's needs ←

18:14:14 <zhe> ... EL like seems to be nice

... EL like seems to be nice ←

18:14:14 <pfps_> q+ to ask about IBM and rec-track status

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to ask about IBM and rec-track status ←

18:14:20 <zhe> ... like OWLPrime rule based approach

... like OWLPrime rule based approach ←

18:14:27 <ivan> ack Achille

Ivan Herman: ack Achille ←

18:14:30 <zhe> ... not sure if it will scale though

... not sure if it will scale though ←

18:14:37 <jjc> Zakim, unmute me

Unknown jjc: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:14:37 <Zakim> jjc was not muted, jjc

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc was not muted, jjc ←

18:15:18 <zhe> Achille: like OWLPrime because it is simple,

Achille Fokoue: like OWLPrime because it is simple, ←

18:15:34 <zhe> also care about Alan's 3 point for real scalability

also care about Alan's 3 point for real scalability ←

18:15:50 <zhe> ... DL Lite + transitivity

... DL Lite + transitivity ←

18:16:07 <zhe> ... translate to pure sql queries

... translate to pure sql queries ←

18:16:12 <zhe> ... close to Alan's position

... close to Alan's position ←

18:16:14 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

18:16:19 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:16:37 <ivan> ack jjc

Ivan Herman: ack jjc ←

18:16:45 <zhe> jjc: consider tradeoffs

Unknown jjc: consider tradeoffs ←

18:16:57 <zhe> jjc: A Box scaliblity is a good measure

Unknown jjc: A Box scaliblity is a good measure ←

18:17:31 <Zakim> +??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15 ←

18:17:37 <bijan> zakim, ??P15 is me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??P15 is me ←

18:17:37 <Zakim> +bijan; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it ←

18:17:46 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

18:17:46 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

18:17:49 <bmotik> q-

Boris Motik: q- ←

18:17:54 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:18:15 <zhe> jjc: rationale is limit # of fragments. should have clear commercial interests

Unknown jjc: rationale is limit # of fragments. should have clear commercial interests ←

18:18:21 <pfps_> ack me

Peter Patel-Schneider: ack me ←

18:18:21 <Zakim> pfps_, you wanted to ask about IBM and rec-track status

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps_, you wanted to ask about IBM and rec-track status ←

18:18:24 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:18:28 <jjc> Zakim, mute me

Unknown jjc: Zakim, mute me ←

18:18:28 <Zakim> jjc should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc should now be muted ←

18:18:32 <bijan> Substitute "community" interest for "commercial"....commerical viability is one measure of community interest

Bijan Parsia: Substitute "community" interest for "commercial"....commerical viability is one measure of community interest ←

18:18:46 <zhe> pfps: to HP, whether REC-ness is vital part for way forward?

Peter Patel-Schneider: to HP, whether REC-ness is vital part for way forward? ←

18:18:48 <jjc> Zakim, unmute me

Unknown jjc: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:18:48 <Zakim> jjc should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc should no longer be muted ←

18:18:56 <pfps_> ... and to IBM

Peter Patel-Schneider: ... and to IBM ←

18:18:59 <Achille> yes I think it does

Achille Fokoue: yes I think it does ←

18:19:02 <Achille> matter

Achille Fokoue: matter ←

18:19:09 <zhe> IanH: does it really matter for a fragment to be in rec or note

Ian Horrocks: does it really matter for a fragment to be in rec or note ←

18:19:11 <MichaelSmith> I think it does

Michael Smith: I think it does ←

18:19:14 <zhe> jjc: not sure.

Unknown jjc: not sure. ←

18:19:41 <jjc> q+ to answer a bit better

Unknown jjc: q+ to answer a bit better ←

18:19:48 <zhe> Achille: does matter. encourage tool and people to adopt

Achille Fokoue: does matter. encourage tool and people to adopt ←

18:19:50 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:20:15 <bijan> users often ask for Rec things; govt agencies sometimes are required to use rec things (as opposed to non-rec things); ISO/ANSI is even stronger

Bijan Parsia: users often ask for Rec things; govt agencies sometimes are required to use rec things (as opposed to non-rec things); ISO/ANSI is even stronger ←

18:20:22 <zhe> q+

q+ ←

18:20:42 <bijan> OWL Lite's being rec track *did* help it...people who wouldn't otherwise have used OWL Lite used it because it was a rec.

Bijan Parsia: OWL Lite's being rec track *did* help it...people who wouldn't otherwise have used OWL Lite used it because it was a rec. ←

18:21:10 <zhe> jjc: a rec should focus on  interoperability

Unknown jjc: a rec should focus on interoperability ←

18:21:13 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

18:21:21 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:21:44 <ivan> ack jjc

Ivan Herman: ack jjc ←

18:21:44 <Zakim> jjc, you wanted to answer a bit better

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc, you wanted to answer a bit better ←

18:21:56 <bijan> I wonder if jjc really meand "Commercial" rather than "production quality" implementation

Bijan Parsia: I wonder if jjc really meand "Commercial" rather than "production quality" implementation ←

18:21:58 <alanr> +1 to go forward, but adjust if necessary

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to go forward, but adjust if necessary ←

18:22:18 <zhe> IanH: commerical support on DL fragments is tricky

Ian Horrocks: commerical support on DL fragments is tricky ←

18:22:23 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:22:41 <zhe> IanH: do we count implementation of DL as implementation for fragments?

Ian Horrocks: do we count implementation of DL as implementation for fragments? ←

18:22:42 <alanr> My threshold is available, correct implementation with correct complexity. Ideal is open source.

Alan Ruttenberg: My threshold is available, correct implementation with correct complexity. Ideal is open source. ←

18:22:54 <ivan> ack zhe

Ivan Herman: ack zhe ←

18:22:57 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:23:24 <alanr> owlprime scales, but is incomplete

Alan Ruttenberg: owlprime scales, but is incomplete ←

18:23:44 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:23:44 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←

18:23:48 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:24:04 <zhe> owlprime scales really well. we have tested 1 billion triples

owlprime scales really well. we have tested 1 billion triples ←

18:24:04 <Uli> q+

Uli Sattler: q+ ←

18:24:16 <Carsten> depends on how you define the semantics, I guess

Unknown Carsten: depends on how you define the semantics, I guess ←

18:24:22 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:24:25 <zhe> alanr: owlprime complements DL lite

Alan Ruttenberg: owlprime complements DL lite ←

18:24:33 <Achille> Zhe, could you please also send a pointer to paper or a document about your scalability results

Achille Fokoue: Zhe, could you please also send a pointer to paper or a document about your scalability results ←

18:24:50 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:24:50 <zhe> alanr: important to have one ties closely to completeness

Alan Ruttenberg: important to have one ties closely to completeness ←

18:25:03 <zhe> ==> Achille, sure.

==> Achille, sure. ←

18:25:08 <Achille> thanks!

Achille Fokoue: thanks! ←

18:25:14 <ivan> ack bmotik

Ivan Herman: ack bmotik ←

18:25:21 <jjc> q+

Unknown jjc: q+ ←

18:25:23 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:25:25 <zhe> bmotik: requirement on at least 2 interoperable implementations

Boris Motik: requirement on at least 2 interoperable implementations ←

18:25:43 <zhe> bmotik: not sure if owlprime has 2 (or if they interoperate)

Boris Motik: not sure if owlprime has 2 (or if they interoperate) ←

18:25:52 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:26:11 <Uli> zakim, unmute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, unmute me ←

18:26:11 <Zakim> uli should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should no longer be muted ←

18:26:12 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←

18:26:13 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←

18:26:14 <zhe> bmotik: even entire OWL FULL does not have such implementations

Boris Motik: even entire OWL FULL does not have such implementations ←

18:26:19 <Achille> q+

Achille Fokoue: q+ ←

18:26:24 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:26:28 <IanH> ack Uli

Ian Horrocks: ack Uli ←

18:26:43 <zhe> uli: can we postpone rec track decision.

Uli Sattler: can we postpone rec track decision. ←

18:26:55 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:26:58 <Achille> +1 for Uli's proposal

Achille Fokoue: +1 for Uli's proposal ←

18:27:01 <zhe> ... rather, make clear what exactly is scalability

... rather, make clear what exactly is scalability ←

18:27:15 <Carsten> We seem to have agreement at the moment; should we really defer and wait until agreement vanishes? :-)

Unknown Carsten: We seem to have agreement at the moment; should we really defer and wait until agreement vanishes? :-) ←

18:27:18 <zhe> ... and how incomplete

... and how incomplete ←

18:27:20 <MarkusK> +1 to explain "scalable+incomplete" better

Markus Krötzsch: +1 to explain "scalable+incomplete" better ←

18:27:28 <zhe> ... be happy to study owlprime for example

... be happy to study owlprime for example ←

18:27:40 <zhe> IanH: is the decision to postpone all fragments?

Ian Horrocks: is the decision to postpone all fragments? ←

18:27:55 <zhe> IanH: or just the one (or ones) that is not totally clear

Ian Horrocks: or just the one (or ones) that is not totally clear ←

18:28:03 <alanr> q+ to respond to Uli

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to respond to Uli ←

18:28:13 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:28:16 <bcuencagrau> There is possibly another prior discussion, namely which fragments will at least be included in a note

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: There is possibly another prior discussion, namely which fragments will at least be included in a note ←

18:28:24 <Uli> zakim, mute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←

18:28:24 <Zakim> uli should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←

18:28:24 <Carsten> doubtlessly, each rec-track fragment will require a lot of work from us!

Unknown Carsten: doubtlessly, each rec-track fragment will require a lot of work from us! ←

18:28:34 <bcuencagrau> those are likely candidates  to go rec-track

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: those are likely candidates to go rec-track ←

18:28:57 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:28:58 <Carsten> q+

Unknown Carsten: q+ ←

18:29:02 <ivan> +1 to jeremy

Ivan Herman: +1 to jeremy ←

18:29:04 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

18:29:13 <ivan> ack jjc

Ivan Herman: ack jjc ←

18:29:55 <zhe> need scribe help on jjc's comments

need scribe help on jjc's comments ←

18:30:06 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+ ←

18:30:27 <ivan> ack Achille

Ivan Herman: ack Achille ←

18:30:41 <zhe> Achille: second Uli's suggestion

Achille Fokoue: second Uli's suggestion ←

18:31:11 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:31:40 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:31:42 <zhe> Achille: no rush here. Different levels of conformance, completeness, not totally clear

Achille Fokoue: no rush here. Different levels of conformance, completeness, not totally clear ←

18:31:56 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:32:13 <ivan> ack alanr

Ivan Herman: ack alanr ←

18:32:13 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to respond to Uli

Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to respond to Uli ←

18:32:18 <zhe> alanr: comment on Uli's suggestion. concern about timeline

Alan Ruttenberg: comment on Uli's suggestion. concern about timeline ←

18:32:59 <zhe> ... owlprime fits into two spots: 1) rule based owl. need to specifiy clearly;   2) scalable

... owlprime fits into two spots: 1) rule based owl. need to specifiy clearly; 2) scalable ←

18:33:06 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:33:12 <zhe> ... hard to imagine to have a second fragment like this.

... hard to imagine to have a second fragment like this. ←

18:33:27 <Uli> alanr, I see the motivation and highlevel description, I simply want to see some more precise descriptions

Uli Sattler: alanr, I see the motivation and highlevel description, I simply want to see some more precise descriptions ←

18:33:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:33:43 <ivan> ack Carsten

Ivan Herman: ack Carsten ←

18:33:46 <zhe> ... timeline is a factor to be considered.

... timeline is a factor to be considered. ←

18:33:53 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:34:19 <zhe> Carsten: if we rec track something, we should do a good job

Unknown Carsten: if we rec track something, we should do a good job ←

18:34:34 <zhe> ... try to have maximal DL fragment and FULL fragment

... try to have maximal DL fragment and FULL fragment ←

18:34:40 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:34:45 <alanr> uli: me too. Worried that time spent deciding takes time from figuring out things.

Uli Sattler: me too. Worried that time spent deciding takes time from figuring out things. [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←

18:34:51 <zhe> ... for DL Lite, authors don't know current shape of OWL 1.1

... for DL Lite, authors don't know current shape of OWL 1.1 ←

18:35:02 <jjc> +1

Unknown jjc: +1 ←

18:35:03 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←

18:35:07 <Zakim> +Elisa_Kendall

Zakim IRC Bot: +Elisa_Kendall ←

18:35:21 <zhe> ... should invest in DL Lite if we want to put it on rec track

... should invest in DL Lite if we want to put it on rec track ←

18:35:23 <MarkusK> +1 to Carsten: DL Lite before Rec needs to be checked for extensibility with OWL1.1 features

Markus Krötzsch: +1 to Carsten: DL Lite before Rec needs to be checked for extensibility with OWL1.1 features ←

18:35:28 <jjc> q+ to suggest Carsten adds new issue to issue list

Unknown jjc: q+ to suggest Carsten adds new issue to issue list ←

18:35:37 <zhe> ... OWLPrime, the benefit seems to be scalability

... OWLPrime, the benefit seems to be scalability ←

18:35:44 <Uli> +1 with Carsten's aiming at "optimal compromises" re. performance & expressiveness

Uli Sattler: +1 with Carsten's aiming at "optimal compromises" re. performance & expressiveness ←

18:35:45 <zhe> ... hard to maximize it

... hard to maximize it ←

18:35:52 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:35:55 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:35:55 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←

18:36:09 <zhe> IanH: I don't think that WG can do a lot of research

Ian Horrocks: I don't think that WG can do a lot of research ←

18:36:28 <m_schnei> q+

Michael Schneider: q+ ←

18:36:29 <zhe> ... fragments have to be based on what we know, instead of more research

... fragments have to be based on what we know, instead of more research ←

18:36:33 <ivan> ack bmotik

Ivan Herman: ack bmotik ←

18:36:37 <alanr> but more power to you, Carsten, if you want to try

Alan Ruttenberg: but more power to you, Carsten, if you want to try ←

18:36:56 <zhe> bmotik: 1) a strong case for rule bases OWL reasoning.

Boris Motik: 1) a strong case for rule bases OWL reasoning. ←

18:37:06 <alanr> Note that we decided to *remove* dlp from the fragments document eariler.

Alan Ruttenberg: Note that we decided to *remove* dlp from the fragments document eariler. ←

18:37:07 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:37:15 <zhe> seems to be DLP anyway

seems to be DLP anyway ←

18:37:47 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:37:57 <zhe> ... Achille's requirement should be accormodated by DLP

... Achille's requirement should be accormodated by DLP ←

18:38:14 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:38:25 <zhe> ... believe we should go to maximal subset

... believe we should go to maximal subset ←

18:38:38 <zhe> ... if vendors think it is hard to implement, we should not woory much.

... if vendors think it is hard to implement, we should not woory much. ←

18:38:40 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←

18:38:40 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←

18:38:42 <MichaelSmith> alanr,   IIRC, *we* didn't decide to remove dlp - the removal was unilateral and reverted.

Michael Smith: alanr, IIRC, *we* didn't decide to remove dlp - the removal was unilateral and reverted. ←

18:38:42 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:38:45 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

18:38:45 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

18:38:45 <zhe> ivan: we should worry

Ivan Herman: we should worry ←

18:38:46 <alanr> +1 to ivan. At least for part of the spec

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to ivan. At least for part of the spec ←

18:38:50 <ivan> ack bijan

Ivan Herman: ack bijan ←

18:39:13 <jjc> +1 to bijan

Unknown jjc: +1 to bijan ←

18:39:26 <Carsten> I agree with Bijan

Unknown Carsten: I agree with Bijan ←

18:39:31 <alanr> yup

Alan Ruttenberg: yup ←

18:39:32 <ivan> +1 to bijan

Ivan Herman: +1 to bijan ←

18:39:34 <Achille> +1 for Bijan

Achille Fokoue: +1 for Bijan ←

18:39:35 <alanr> grist for owl 1.2

Alan Ruttenberg: grist for owl 1.2 ←

18:39:35 <Carsten> But we should make *some* attempt

Unknown Carsten: But we should make *some* attempt ←

18:39:39 <IanH> this is what we are doing now isnt it?

Ian Horrocks: this is what we are doing now isnt it? ←

18:39:57 <IanH> with OWL 1.1 I mean

Ian Horrocks: with OWL 1.1 I mean ←

18:40:09 <zhe> bijan: production quality implementation.

Bijan Parsia: production quality implementation. ←

18:40:14 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:40:15 <jjc> +1 to bijan

Unknown jjc: +1 to bijan ←

18:40:20 <zhe> ... more importantly, interoperable implementations.

... more importantly, interoperable implementations. ←

18:40:22 <m_schnei> q-

Michael Schneider: q- ←

18:40:23 <alanr> resource bound attempt

Alan Ruttenberg: resource bound attempt ←

18:40:28 <ivan> ack jjc

Ivan Herman: ack jjc ←

18:40:28 <Zakim> jjc, you wanted to suggest Carsten adds new issue to issue list

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc, you wanted to suggest Carsten adds new issue to issue list ←

18:40:30 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:40:31 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

18:40:31 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

18:40:38 <zhe> jjc: agree with bijan totally

Unknown jjc: agree with bijan totally ←

18:40:40 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:40:55 <Carsten> DLP??

Unknown Carsten: DLP?? ←

18:41:04 <bmotik> That's trivial jeremy.

Boris Motik: That's trivial jeremy. ←

18:41:07 <alanr> I think he mispoke. Dl-lite

Alan Ruttenberg: I think he mispoke. Dl-lite ←

18:41:12 <zhe> jjc: maybe not research, but some quick check

Unknown jjc: maybe not research, but some quick check ←

18:41:19 <zhe> jjc: on DL Lite fragment

Unknown jjc: on DL Lite fragment ←

18:41:24 <bijan> I don't understand it

Bijan Parsia: I don't understand it ←

18:41:28 <bmotik> Sorry jeremy -- I thought you meant DLP.

Boris Motik: Sorry jeremy -- I thought you meant DLP. ←

18:41:38 <zhe> IanH: I did not mean not to do any investigation

Ian Horrocks: I did not mean not to do any investigation ←

18:41:46 <Carsten> we basically all seem to agree

Unknown Carsten: we basically all seem to agree ←

18:41:47 <zhe> IanH: do not want lengthy research

Ian Horrocks: do not want lengthy research ←

18:42:00 <zhe> jjc: sanity chek DL Lite in the context of OWL 1.1

Unknown jjc: sanity chek DL Lite in the context of OWL 1.1 ←

18:42:01 <Uli> q+

Uli Sattler: q+ ←

18:42:07 <ivan> ack Uli

Ivan Herman: ack Uli ←

18:42:07 <zhe> IanH: anybody?

Ian Horrocks: anybody? ←

18:42:09 <bmotik> What does sanity check mean?

Boris Motik: What does sanity check mean? ←

18:42:27 <Carsten> is afraid that this might be true

Unknown Carsten: is afraid that this might be true ←

18:42:29 <zhe> Uli: don't think a simple sanity on DL Lite is sufficient

Uli Sattler: don't think a simple sanity on DL Lite is sufficient ←

18:42:29 <bmotik> +1 to Uli

Boris Motik: +1 to Uli ←

18:42:52 <zhe> IanH: it could be that we cannot add anything.

Ian Horrocks: it could be that we cannot add anything. ←

18:42:52 <MarkusK> +1 to Uli, DLP is much easier to extend

Markus Krötzsch: +1 to Uli, DLP is much easier to extend ←

18:42:53 <bijan> And we can always ask the DL Lite community to do a sanity check

Bijan Parsia: And we can always ask the DL Lite community to do a sanity check ←

18:42:53 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:43:20 <Uli> zakim, mute me

Uli Sattler: zakim, mute me ←

18:43:20 <Zakim> uli should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: uli should now be muted ←

18:43:38 <jjc> jjc is happy if this idea of sanity check is withdrawn

Unknown jjc: jjc is happy if this idea of sanity check is withdrawn ←

18:43:45 <bmotik> In fact, DLP already contains the maximal set of OWL 1.1 features that obeys the "no existentials and no disjunctions" principle

Boris Motik: In fact, DLP already contains the maximal set of OWL 1.1 features that obeys the "no existentials and no disjunctions" principle ←

18:44:11 <zhe> IanH: do we think it makes sense now to make decisions on fragments?

Ian Horrocks: do we think it makes sense now to make decisions on fragments? ←

18:44:24 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1 ←

18:44:24 <jjc> +1

Unknown jjc: +1 ←

18:44:25 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1 ←

18:44:26 <Carsten> +1

Unknown Carsten: +1 ←

18:44:28 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1 ←

18:44:28 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1 ←

18:44:28 <bcuencagrau> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1 ←

18:44:29 <MarkusK> +1

Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←

18:44:29 <Uli> +1

Uli Sattler: +1 ←

18:44:30 <pfps_> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 ←

18:44:31 <MichaelSmith> +1

Michael Smith: +1 ←

18:44:31 <m_schnei> +1

Michael Schneider: +1 ←

18:44:31 <Rinke> +

Rinke Hoekstra: + ←

18:44:34 <Elisa> +1

Elisa Kendall: +1 ←

18:44:34 <zhe> IanH: make some provisional decision on which fragments

Ian Horrocks: make some provisional decision on which fragments ←

18:44:35 <sandro> Ian: Do we think it makes sense, now, to decide about fragments now?      Before asking which fragments....   Is it sensible to make some decision about rec track fragments now?

Ian Horrocks: Do we think it makes sense, now, to decide about fragments now? Before asking which fragments.... Is it sensible to make some decision about rec track fragments now? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

18:44:36 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←

18:45:16 <sandro> Ian: Okay, so which fragments, in Alan's order, should be provisionally rec-track?

Ian Horrocks: Okay, so which fragments, in Alan's order, should be provisionally rec-track? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

18:45:22 <Uli> yes

Uli Sattler: yes ←

18:45:27 <sandro> Ian: (btw we need a name other than "OWL Prime", I think!)

Ian Horrocks: (btw we need a name other than "OWL Prime", I think!) [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

18:45:30 <m_schnei> RDFS3.0

Michael Schneider: RDFS3.0 ←

18:45:38 <pfps_> -1

Peter Patel-Schneider: -1 ←

18:45:39 <alanr> we should do a second run to give fragments marketable names

Alan Ruttenberg: we should do a second run to give fragments marketable names ←

18:45:41 <ivan> -1

Ivan Herman: -1 ←

18:45:42 <bijan> -2

Bijan Parsia: -2 ←

18:45:42 <zhe> IanH: first one OWLPrime. maybe we want to rename?

Ian Horrocks: first one OWLPrime. maybe we want to rename? ←

18:45:44 <alanr> forget about names right now

Alan Ruttenberg: forget about names right now ←

18:45:48 <m_schnei> RDFS Deluxe ;-)

Michael Schneider: RDFS Deluxe ;-) ←

18:45:51 <sandro> Ian: (Since OWL Prime is the name of Oracle's product)

Ian Horrocks: (Since OWL Prime is the name of Oracle's product) [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

18:45:52 <pfps_> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 ←

18:45:53 <bijan> rOWL

Bijan Parsia: rOWL ←

18:45:55 <jjc> +1

Unknown jjc: +1 ←

18:45:58 <alanr> OWL Pro

Alan Ruttenberg: OWL Pro ←

18:45:59 <sandro> grOWL?

Sandro Hawke: grOWL? ←

18:46:05 <zhe> IanH: don't worry about names for now

Ian Horrocks: don't worry about names for now ←

18:46:07 <Achille> 0

Achille Fokoue: 0 ←

18:46:10 <Carsten> 0

Unknown Carsten: 0 ←

18:46:11 <sandro> +1

Sandro Hawke: +1 ←

18:46:11 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1 ←

18:46:12 <MarkusK> 0

Markus Krötzsch: 0 ←

18:46:13 <m_schnei> +1

Michael Schneider: +1 ←

18:46:13 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←

18:46:15 <Uli> 0

Uli Sattler: 0 ←

18:46:15 <bcuencagrau> 0

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: 0 ←

18:46:16 <Rinke> 0

Rinke Hoekstra: 0 ←

18:46:16 <pfps_> 0

Peter Patel-Schneider: 0 ←

18:46:17 <zhe> IanH: do we think it is a good candiate for rec track

Ian Horrocks: do we think it is a good candiate for rec track ←

18:46:17 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1 ←

18:46:18 <MichaelSmith> +1

Michael Smith: +1 ←

18:46:19 <zhe> +1

+1 ←

18:46:21 <bijan> 0

Bijan Parsia: 0 ←

18:46:26 <sandro> Ian: Is "OWL Prime" a sensible candidate for a rec track fragment.

Ian Horrocks: Is "OWL Prime" a sensible candidate for a rec track fragment. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

18:46:27 <jjc> +1

Unknown jjc: +1 ←

18:46:38 <Elisa> +1

Elisa Kendall: +1 ←

18:46:41 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+ ←

18:46:44 <pfps_> 0 - needs definition

Peter Patel-Schneider: 0 - needs definition ←

18:46:45 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:46:50 <ivan> ack bijan

Ivan Herman: ack bijan ←

18:46:50 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

18:46:52 <alanr> sensible there is more work to do for OWL Prime

Alan Ruttenberg: sensible there is more work to do for OWL Prime ←

18:46:53 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan ←

18:46:56 <zhe> IanH: OWLPrime folks need to do more convince work

Ian Horrocks: OWLPrime folks need to do more convince work ←

18:46:58 <sandro> (Um - NO.   A 0 doesn't need convincing.)

Sandro Hawke: (Um - NO. A 0 doesn't need convincing.) ←

18:47:07 <zhe> bijan: need a proposal before make a decision

Bijan Parsia: need a proposal before make a decision ←

18:47:30 <jjc> (There were a lot of 0s, that does suggest there is a need for convincing)

Unknown jjc: (There were a lot of 0s, that does suggest there is a need for convincing) ←

18:47:39 <sandro> ian: Me too -- I want to see a worked-out proposal in the owl-prime space.

Ian Horrocks: Me too -- I want to see a worked-out proposal in the owl-prime space. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

18:47:41 <alanr> this is straw poll - non binding. So say "ok, as long as ....." is perfect

Alan Ruttenberg: this is straw poll - non binding. So say "ok, as long as ....." is perfect ←

18:47:43 <zhe> IanH: want to see a proposal for rule based fragment like OWLPrime before go forward

Ian Horrocks: want to see a proposal for rule based fragment like OWLPrime before go forward ←

18:47:47 <zhe> IanH: EL++

Ian Horrocks: EL++ ←

18:47:49 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1 ←

18:47:50 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1 ←

18:47:51 <MarkusK> +1

Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←

18:47:51 <MichaelSmith> +1 on EL++

Michael Smith: +1 on EL++ ←

18:47:52 <Uli> +1

Uli Sattler: +1 ←

18:47:52 <pfps_> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 ←

18:47:53 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1 ←

18:47:53 <bcuencagrau> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1 ←

18:47:53 <Carsten> +1 (surprise)

Unknown Carsten: +1 (surprise) ←

18:47:55 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←

18:47:57 <m_schnei> +0

Michael Schneider: +0 ←

18:47:57 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←

18:47:58 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1 ←

18:48:00 <jjc> +0

Unknown jjc: +0 ←

18:48:07 <zhe> +0

+0 ←

18:48:08 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

18:48:08 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

18:48:14 <Elisa> +1

Elisa Kendall: +1 ←

18:48:28 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1 ←

18:48:34 <zhe> IanH: DL Lite kind of fragment? Scalable Abox space?

Ian Horrocks: DL Lite kind of fragment? Scalable Abox space? ←

18:48:35 <sandro> Ian: DL-Lite (Scalable A-box)

Ian Horrocks: DL-Lite (Scalable A-box) [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

18:48:36 <Achille> +1

Achille Fokoue: +1 ←

18:48:37 <MichaelSmith> +1 on DL-Lite or very similar

Michael Smith: +1 on DL-Lite or very similar ←

18:48:38 <alanr> scalable *complete*

Alan Ruttenberg: scalable *complete* ←

18:48:38 <ivan> 0

Ivan Herman: 0 ←

18:48:40 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←

18:48:41 <jjc> +0

Unknown jjc: +0 ←

18:48:42 <Carsten> +1

Unknown Carsten: +1 ←

18:48:42 <m_schnei> +0

Michael Schneider: +0 ←

18:48:42 <MarkusK> +0.5

Markus Krötzsch: +0.5 ←

18:48:43 <zhe> +0

+0 ←

18:48:45 <bcuencagrau> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1 ←

18:48:46 <bmotik> 0 to DL-lite as such

Boris Motik: 0 to DL-lite as such ←

18:48:49 <Uli> +1

Uli Sattler: +1 ←

18:48:49 <Elisa> +1

Elisa Kendall: +1 ←

18:48:52 <Rinke> +0

Rinke Hoekstra: +0 ←

18:48:57 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1 ←

18:48:58 <pfps_> +1/2 - the target is not quite defined

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1/2 - the target is not quite defined ←

18:49:02 <alanr> bit better than owlprim

Alan Ruttenberg: bit better than owlprim ←

18:49:26 <Uli> or even HornShiq?

Uli Sattler: or even HornShiq? ←

18:49:30 <bmotik> Should we call it OWL Peime/DLP?

Boris Motik: Should we call it OWL Prime/DLP? ←

18:49:34 <alanr> I think the characterization is *rule based* however it turns out

Alan Ruttenberg: I think the characterization is *rule based* however it turns out ←

18:49:36 <bmotik> s/Peime/Prime

18:49:37 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+ ←

18:49:37 <zhe> IanH: what about DLP?

Ian Horrocks: what about DLP? ←

18:49:39 <jjc> -1

Unknown jjc: -1 ←

18:49:45 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:49:49 <bcuencagrau> DLP, Horn-SHIQ and OWL Prime should ''merge''

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: DLP, Horn-SHIQ and OWL Prime should ''merge'' ←

18:49:53 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan ←

18:50:11 <bmotik> Not much.

Boris Motik: Not much. ←

18:50:12 <alanr> 0 unless it turns out equivalent to OWL Prime

Alan Ruttenberg: 0 unless it turns out equivalent to OWL Prime ←

18:50:13 <MarkusK> +1 to bcuencagrau if this should work out ...

Markus Krötzsch: +1 to bcuencagrau if this should work out ... ←

18:50:16 <zhe> ivan: how much additional to merge DLP and OWLPrime

Ivan Herman: how much additional to merge DLP and OWLPrime ←

18:50:24 <Carsten> And how comprehensible will our documents be?

Unknown Carsten: And how comprehensible will our documents be? ←

18:50:31 <bmotik> q+ to answer to Ivan

Boris Motik: q+ to answer to Ivan ←

18:50:47 <Achille> 0 because I am not sure that DLP or HornSHIQ could be defined in a simple way (i.e. non dl-expert can easily understand the restrictions).

Achille Fokoue: 0 because I am not sure that DLP or HornSHIQ could be defined in a simple way (i.e. non dl-expert can easily understand the restrictions). ←

18:50:48 <m_schnei> I would rather spend time for the relationship between OWL-Prime and pD*

Michael Schneider: I would rather spend time for the relationship between OWL-Prime and pD* ←

18:51:00 <Rinke> wondering about the relation between LP and DLP, and eg RIF... or is that silly?

Rinke Hoekstra: wondering about the relation between LP and DLP, and eg RIF... or is that silly? ←

18:51:08 <zhe> IanH: yes it involves quite some work.

Ian Horrocks: yes it involves quite some work. ←

18:51:25 <zhe> IanH: it was an important link to make

Ian Horrocks: it was an important link to make ←

18:51:41 <Carsten> It can have a corresponding fragment, but do *we* have to make that explicit on rec?

Unknown Carsten: It can have a corresponding fragment, but do *we* have to make that explicit on rec? ←

18:52:05 <bijan> It would be *nice*

Bijan Parsia: It would be *nice* ←

18:52:09 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:52:10 <zhe> IanH: who think it is important to have a correspondance between rule based fragment

Ian Horrocks: who think it is important to have a correspondance between rule based fragment ←

18:52:11 <Uli> +1 to bijan

Uli Sattler: +1 to bijan ←

18:52:14 <alanr> imo, not important. nice to have.

Alan Ruttenberg: imo, not important. nice to have. ←

18:52:15 <zhe> and DL fragment

and DL fragment ←

18:52:18 <jjc> +0

Unknown jjc: +0 ←

18:52:20 <pfps_> +x, where x is more than 0 but less than 1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +x, where x is more than 0 but less than 1 ←

18:52:21 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:52:21 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←

18:52:23 <ivan> ack bmotik

Ivan Herman: ack bmotik ←

18:52:23 <Zakim> bmotik, you wanted to answer to Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik, you wanted to answer to Ivan ←

18:52:27 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:52:29 <sandro> ian: Is it important to have a DL fragment which corresponds roughly to whatever we have on the rules side (NOT rec-track) ?

Ian Horrocks: Is it important to have a DL fragment which corresponds roughly to whatever we have on the rules side (NOT rec-track) ? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

18:52:47 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+ ←

18:52:54 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:53:07 <zhe> bmotik: to answer ivan, with minor work, we ccan come up with a clear definition when these two fragments coincide

Boris Motik: to answer ivan, with minor work, we ccan come up with a clear definition when these two fragments coincide ←

18:53:15 <zhe> ... this is something we really should look into

... this is something we really should look into ←

18:53:23 <zhe> ... don't believe it is a lot of work.

... don't believe it is a lot of work. ←

18:53:26 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:53:30 <ivan> ack bijan

Ivan Herman: ack bijan ←

18:53:30 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←

18:53:31 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

18:53:33 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←

18:53:34 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan ←

18:53:35 <zhe> ... pD* is not that far away from DLP anyway

... pD* is not that far away from DLP anyway ←

18:53:37 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:53:44 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←

18:53:47 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:53:50 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←

18:53:50 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←

18:53:52 <zhe> bijan: is the correspondence a requirement?

Bijan Parsia: is the correspondence a requirement? ←

18:53:56 <MichaelSmith> +1 to bijan, this is a goal, not a rqmt

Michael Smith: +1 to bijan, this is a goal, not a rqmt ←

18:54:07 <alanr> for fragments: objective

Alan Ruttenberg: for fragments: objective ←

18:54:07 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1 ←

18:54:10 <zhe> IanH: it is an objective

Ian Horrocks: it is an objective ←

18:54:12 <jjc> +0

Unknown jjc: +0 ←

18:54:14 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←

18:54:14 <bcuencagrau> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1 ←

18:54:15 <MarkusK> +1

Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←

18:54:15 <MichaelSmith> +1

Michael Smith: +1 ←

18:54:15 <alanr> 0

Alan Ruttenberg: 0 ←

18:54:17 <m_schnei> -0

Michael Schneider: -0 ←

18:54:19 <Achille> 0

Achille Fokoue: 0 ←

18:54:19 <zhe> +0

+0 ←

18:54:19 <Elisa> +1

Elisa Kendall: +1 ←

18:54:21 <Uli> +0

Uli Sattler: +0 ←

18:54:21 <bmotik> +1 to establishing a link between OWL Prime and DLP

Boris Motik: +1 to establishing a link between OWL Prime and DLP ←

18:54:26 <Carsten> -0 (depends very much on where it goes and in which form)

Unknown Carsten: -0 (depends very much on where it goes and in which form) ←

18:54:26 <ivan> +1 (if put it that way)

Ivan Herman: +1 (if put it that way) ←

18:54:34 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

18:54:34 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

18:54:40 <zhe> +1 (sorry, typo)

+1 (sorry, typo) ←

18:55:09 <bijan> Why should we restrict the future?

Bijan Parsia: Why should we restrict the future? ←

18:55:11 <sandro> Ian: Are these mentioned fragments ALL the ones we should consider?

Ian Horrocks: Are these mentioned fragments ALL the ones we should consider? [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

18:55:11 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:55:16 <zhe> IanH: do we cover all fragments (for rec track candidates)?

Ian Horrocks: do we cover all fragments (for rec track candidates)? ←

18:55:17 <jjc> +1

Unknown jjc: +1 ←

18:55:21 <sandro> Was OWL Full considered?

Sandro Hawke: Was OWL Full considered? ←

18:55:24 <alanr> that's it for now. Barring new information.

Alan Ruttenberg: that's it for now. Barring new information. ←

18:55:28 <alanr> OWL Full isn't a fragment

Alan Ruttenberg: OWL Full isn't a fragment ←

18:55:31 <m_schnei> not a DL fragment

Michael Schneider: not a DL fragment ←

18:55:35 <Rinke> and DL?

Rinke Hoekstra: and DL? ←

18:55:48 <sandro> Ian: No, OWL Full wasn't considered but it's not a fragment, so the question doesn't apply.

Ian Horrocks: No, OWL Full wasn't considered but it's not a fragment, so the question doesn't apply. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

18:55:58 <pfps_> -0, there could be some reason to add something, but I don't see it now

Peter Patel-Schneider: -0, there could be some reason to add something, but I don't see it now ←

18:55:58 <jjc> +1

Unknown jjc: +1 ←

18:55:58 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:55:59 <alanr> Dl not considered a fragment either

Alan Ruttenberg: Dl not considered a fragment either ←

18:55:59 <m_schnei> 1.0-DL is a fragment, yes! :)

Michael Schneider: 1.0-DL is a fragment, yes! :) ←

18:55:59 <Uli> do we need to *rule* others out now?

Uli Sattler: do we need to *rule* others out now? ←

18:56:00 <zhe> +1

+1 ←

18:56:00 <Achille> +1 with maybe some minor modifications

Achille Fokoue: +1 with maybe some minor modifications ←

18:56:02 <ivan> +1

Ivan Herman: +1 ←

18:56:02 <sandro> +0.5

Sandro Hawke: +0.5 ←

18:56:04 <MichaelSmith> +1 to *focusing our energy* on these fragments

Michael Smith: +1 to *focusing our energy* on these fragments ←

18:56:07 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←

18:56:11 <m_schnei> +1

Michael Schneider: +1 ←

18:56:12 <bcuencagrau> +1

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1 ←

18:56:14 <Uli> +1 to Mike!

Uli Sattler: +1 to Mike! ←

18:56:14 <pfps_> +1 to michael

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to michael ←

18:56:18 <bijan> I think what we have is a starting point, but feel  no need to rule stuff out

Bijan Parsia: I think what we have is a starting point, but feel no need to rule stuff out ←

18:56:20 <MarkusK> +1 to michael

Markus Krötzsch: +1 to michael ←

18:56:21 <Rinke> +1 to michael

Rinke Hoekstra: +1 to michael ←

18:56:22 <Carsten> +1 michael

Unknown Carsten: +1 michael ←

18:56:23 <bijan> +1 to mike

Bijan Parsia: +1 to mike ←

18:56:24 <Elisa> +1 to Michael

Elisa Kendall: +1 to Michael ←

18:56:27 <bmotik> +1 to michael

Boris Motik: +1 to michael ←

18:56:33 <ivan> +1 to michael

Ivan Herman: +1 to michael ←

18:56:37 <zhe> IanH: time is up. follow up with emails

Ian Horrocks: time is up. follow up with emails ←

18:56:39 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←

18:56:59 <alanr> to ask - target date for vote?

Alan Ruttenberg: to ask - target date for vote? ←

18:57:01 <zhe> ... in particular, we need specification for rule based fragment

... in particular, we need specification for rule based fragment ←

18:57:07 <sandro> Names for ALL the fragments, please.  :-)

Sandro Hawke: Names for ALL the fragments, please. :-) ←

18:57:11 <zhe> ... suggestion for a new name :)

... suggestion for a new name :) ←

18:57:17 <pfps_> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

18:57:17 <Zakim> pfps_ should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps_ should no longer be muted ←

18:57:17 <alanr> peter

Alan Ruttenberg: peter ←

18:57:28 <alanr> there is loud music here :(

Alan Ruttenberg: there is loud music here :( ←

18:57:32 <zhe> IanH: hand over chair to pfps

Ian Horrocks: hand over chair to pfps ←

18:57:34 <Uli> not here

Uli Sattler: not here ←

18:57:50 <Zakim> -IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH ←

18:57:54 <IanH> bye

Ian Horrocks: bye ←

18:57:57 <Uli> bye

Uli Sattler: bye ←

18:58:19 <zhe> pfps: go over issues list

Peter Patel-Schneider: go over issues list ←

18:58:28 <alanr> alanr has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.20/Agenda

Alan Ruttenberg: alanr has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.20/Agenda ←

18:58:32 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:58:32 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←

18:58:32 <zhe> issue 3: two proposals. most current one from bmotik

ISSUE-3: two proposals. most current one from bmotik ←

18:58:52 <zhe> bmotik: allow bnode in funtional spec

Boris Motik: allow bnode in funtional spec ←

18:59:03 <zhe> ... could use freely just like in rdf

... could use freely just like in rdf ←

18:59:14 <ivan> -> http://www.w3.org/mid/006201c86e7b$1cd19870$d012a8c0@wolf Boris' proposal

Ivan Herman: -> http://www.w3.org/mid/006201c86e7b$1cd19870$d012a8c0@wolf Boris' proposal ←

18:59:38 <bijan> "distinct" not "unique"

Bijan Parsia: "distinct" not "unique" ←

18:59:39 <zhe> ... regarding semantics. could interpret them as unique, or through existential

... regarding semantics. could interpret them as unique, or through existential ←

19:00:14 <zhe> need help with scribe ...

need help with scribe ... ←

19:00:29 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←

19:00:49 <ivan> ack alanr

Ivan Herman: ack alanr ←

19:00:50 <zhe> alanr: isn't this what we had before?

Alan Ruttenberg: isn't this what we had before? ←

19:01:07 <zhe> ... what is the difference

... what is the difference ←

19:01:59 <jjc> q+ to articulate some difficulties

Unknown jjc: q+ to articulate some difficulties ←

19:02:24 <alanr> but not wrt anonymous individuals?

Alan Ruttenberg: but not wrt anonymous individuals? ←

19:02:48 <ivan> ack jjc

Ivan Herman: ack jjc ←

19:02:48 <Zakim> jjc, you wanted to articulate some difficulties

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc, you wanted to articulate some difficulties ←

19:02:51 <Uli> I understand Boris as saying that the "skolem" proposal is far better than people might have thought...

Uli Sattler: I understand Boris as saying that the "skolem" proposal is far better than people might have thought... ←

19:03:00 <pfps_> boris: divergence between DL and Full

Boris Motik: divergence between DL and Full [ Scribe Assist by Peter Patel-Schneider ] ←

19:03:43 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+ ←

19:03:49 <pfps_> q?

Peter Patel-Schneider: q? ←

19:04:05 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

19:04:05 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

19:04:06 <zhe> jjc, can you please put a summary in IRC?

jjc, can you please put a summary in IRC? ←

19:04:23 <pfps_> jjc: syntax bnodes are existentials, object bnodes are skolems?

Unknown jjc: syntax bnodes are existentials, object bnodes are skolems? [ Scribe Assist by Peter Patel-Schneider ] ←

19:04:49 <zhe> ACTION: jjc send out email clarify

ACTION: jjc send out email clarify ←

19:04:49 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - jjc

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - jjc ←

19:04:50 <MarkusK> +1 to Boris, Skolmes just are a weakened semantic way for DL-tools to work on it

Markus Krötzsch: +1 to Boris, Skolmes just are a weakened semantic way for DL-tools to work on it ←

19:05:02 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

19:05:02 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

19:05:19 <jjc> action: jeremy to summarise problem with bnodes in ISSUE-3 vs bnodes in OWL list

ACTION: jeremy to summarise problem with bnodes in ISSUE-3 vs bnodes in OWL list ←

19:05:19 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-90 - Summarise problem with bnodes in ISSUE-3 vs bnodes in OWL list [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2008-02-27].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-90 - Summarise problem with bnodes in ISSUE-3 vs bnodes in OWL list [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2008-02-27]. ←

19:05:20 <zhe> issue 91

ISSUE-91 ←

19:05:32 <zhe> want to defer because of the action item?

want to defer because of the action item? ←

19:05:39 <bmotik> Could Jeremy actually summarize whast the problem is/

Boris Motik: Could Jeremy actually summarize whast the problem is/ ←

19:05:42 <alanr> Can michael take either of these?

Alan Ruttenberg: Can michael take either of these? ←

19:05:46 <alanr> schneider

Alan Ruttenberg: schneider ←

19:05:53 <zhe> issue 95

ISSUE-95 ←

19:06:04 <m_schnei> i will think about this... later :)

Michael Schneider: i will think about this... later :) ←

19:06:14 <zhe> issue 95 No compatibility restrictions between the datatype being restricted and the facets in the DatatypeRestriction construct

ISSUE-95 No compatibility restrictions between the datatype being restricted and the facets in the DatatypeRestriction construct ←

19:06:21 <MichaelSmith> +1 to boris's suggestion restricting datarange to just datatypeURIs

Michael Smith: +1 to boris's suggestion restricting datarange to just datatypeURIs ←

19:06:23 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1 ←

19:06:27 <zhe> bmotik: DatatypeRestriction  takes data types

Boris Motik: DatatypeRestriction takes data types ←

19:06:52 <zhe> bmotik: change synatx a little bit

Boris Motik: change synatx a little bit ←

19:06:54 <Uli> +1

Uli Sattler: +1 ←

19:07:16 <zhe> pfps: looks like this can be resolved next week.

Peter Patel-Schneider: looks like this can be resolved next week. ←

19:07:28 <bmotik> ACTION: bmotik2 to Update the spec to resolve ISSUE-95

ACTION: bmotik2 to Update the spec to resolve ISSUE-95 ←

19:07:28 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-91 - Update the spec to resolve ISSUE-95 [on Boris Motik - due 2008-02-27].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-91 - Update the spec to resolve ISSUE-95 [on Boris Motik - due 2008-02-27]. ←

19:07:31 <zhe> bmotik: can I update it now and send out an email for the resolution

Boris Motik: can I update it now and send out an email for the resolution ←

19:07:44 <zhe> issue 68

ISSUE-68 ←

19:07:55 <zhe> issue 68: mapping rules are non-monotonic

ISSUE-68: mapping rules are non-monotonic ←

19:08:10 <alanr> :

Alan Ruttenberg: : ←

19:08:15 <alanr> :) good

Alan Ruttenberg: :) good ←

19:08:15 <zhe> pfps: I don't quite understand.

Peter Patel-Schneider: I don't quite understand. ←

19:08:25 <alanr> I also thought it was not being understood

Alan Ruttenberg: I also thought it was not being understood ←

19:08:31 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+ ←

19:08:33 <Carsten> have to leave, sorry. bye

Unknown Carsten: have to leave, sorry. bye ←

19:08:37 <m_schnei> and for me

Michael Schneider: and for me ←

19:08:38 <Uli> bye

Uli Sattler: bye ←

19:08:40 <Zakim> -Carsten

Zakim IRC Bot: -Carsten ←

19:08:41 <m_schnei> and for owl-full

Michael Schneider: and for owl-full ←

19:08:45 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

19:08:45 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

19:08:50 <alanr> problem for monotonicity principle

Alan Ruttenberg: problem for monotonicity principle ←

19:08:54 <zhe> jjc: is a problem for Jena

Unknown jjc: is a problem for Jena ←

19:09:05 <Uli> Jeremy, what is the problem due to?

Uli Sattler: Jeremy, what is the problem due to? ←

19:09:07 <pfps_> ack bijan

Peter Patel-Schneider: ack bijan ←

19:09:09 <zhe> bijan: a proposal may solve the problem

Bijan Parsia: a proposal may solve the problem ←

19:09:39 <zhe> pfps: this is not about QCR,

Peter Patel-Schneider: this is not about QCR, ←

19:09:48 <m_schnei> q+ to clarify what the problem is in owl-full

Michael Schneider: q+ to clarify what the problem is in owl-full ←

19:09:54 <alanr> +1 property punning is the issue

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 property punning is the issue ←

19:10:22 <bmotik> Could Jeremy explain why this is a problem for Jena?

Boris Motik: Could Jeremy explain why this is a problem for Jena? ←

19:10:33 <alanr> a solution that works is extremely acceptable :)

Alan Ruttenberg: a solution that works is extremely acceptable :) ←

19:10:41 <alanr> write it up?

Alan Ruttenberg: write it up? ←

19:11:10 <pfps_> q?

Peter Patel-Schneider: q? ←

19:11:39 <alanr> motivation was backwards compatibility, as I understand it

Alan Ruttenberg: motivation was backwards compatibility, as I understand it ←

19:11:42 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

19:11:42 <Zakim> m_schnei was not muted, m_schnei

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei was not muted, m_schnei ←

19:12:01 <zhe> lost m_schnei?

lost m_schnei? ←

19:12:05 <m_schnei> zakim, unmute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

19:12:05 <Zakim> m_schnei was not muted, m_schnei

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei was not muted, m_schnei ←

19:12:05 <sandro> m_schnei, try pressing 41#

Sandro Hawke: m_schnei, try pressing 41# ←

19:12:25 <jjc> Zakim, unmute [IPCaller]

Unknown jjc: Zakim, unmute [IPCaller] ←

19:12:25 <Zakim> [IPcaller] should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: [IPcaller] should no longer be muted ←

19:12:26 <sandro> okay try pressing 61#

Sandro Hawke: okay try pressing 61# ←

19:12:26 <bijan> Is the relevant jeremey email linked from the tracker page?

Bijan Parsia: Is the relevant jeremey email linked from the tracker page? ←

19:12:34 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

19:12:34 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

19:12:41 <alanr> zakim, who is on the call?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is on the call? ←

19:12:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps_, [IPcaller], MichaelSmith, Ivan, Rinke, MarkusK, m_schnei, bmotik, uli (muted), jjc, Achille, bcuencagrau (muted), Sandro (muted), Alan_Ruttenberg, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps_, [IPcaller], MichaelSmith, Ivan, Rinke, MarkusK, m_schnei, bmotik, uli (muted), jjc, Achille, bcuencagrau (muted), Sandro (muted), Alan_Ruttenberg, bijan ←

19:12:42 <sandro> Zakim, IPCaller is m_schnei

Sandro Hawke: Zakim, IPCaller is m_schnei ←

19:12:44 <Zakim> ... (muted), Elisa_Kendall

Zakim IRC Bot: ... (muted), Elisa_Kendall ←

19:12:45 <Zakim> +m_schnei; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +m_schnei; got it ←

19:12:54 <bijan> This one? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0262.html

Bijan Parsia: This one? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0262.html ←

19:13:27 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call? ←

19:13:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps_, m_schnei.a, MichaelSmith, Ivan, Rinke, MarkusK, m_schnei, bmotik, uli (muted), jjc, Achille, bcuencagrau (muted), Sandro (muted), Alan_Ruttenberg, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps_, m_schnei.a, MichaelSmith, Ivan, Rinke, MarkusK, m_schnei, bmotik, uli (muted), jjc, Achille, bcuencagrau (muted), Sandro (muted), Alan_Ruttenberg, bijan ←

19:13:28 <zhe> pfps: to m_schnei, this is a different issue

Peter Patel-Schneider: to m_schnei, this is a different issue ←

19:13:33 <Zakim> ... (muted), Elisa_Kendall

Zakim IRC Bot: ... (muted), Elisa_Kendall ←

19:13:43 <alanr> effectively dropping triples

Alan Ruttenberg: effectively dropping triples ←

19:13:44 <jjc> q+ to try and explain why this is a problem for Jena

Unknown jjc: q+ to try and explain why this is a problem for Jena ←

19:13:45 <pfps_> q?

Peter Patel-Schneider: q? ←

19:13:45 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

19:13:46 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←

19:13:50 <zhe> pfps: QCR is a separate issue

Peter Patel-Schneider: QCR is a separate issue ←

19:13:54 <pfps_> ack m_schnei

Peter Patel-Schneider: ack m_schnei ←

19:13:55 <Zakim> m_schnei, you wanted to clarify what the problem is in owl-full

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei, you wanted to clarify what the problem is in owl-full ←

19:14:01 <pfps_> ack [IPcaller]

Peter Patel-Schneider: ack [IPcaller] ←

19:14:02 <zhe> jjc: why it is a problem for Jena

Unknown jjc: why it is a problem for Jena ←

19:14:03 <sandro> Present: pfps_, m_schnei.a, MichaelSmith, Ivan, Rinke, MarkusK, m_schnei, bmotik, uli, jjc, Achille, bcuencagrau, Sandro, Alan_Ruttenberg, bijan, IanH

Scribe problem: the name 'm_schnei.a' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu

19:14:07 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

19:14:07 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted ←

19:14:08 <pfps_> ack jjc

Peter Patel-Schneider: ack jjc ←

19:14:09 <Zakim> jjc, you wanted to try and explain why this is a problem for Jena

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc, you wanted to try and explain why this is a problem for Jena ←

19:14:11 <zhe> jjc: knowledge is stored in triples

Scribe problem: the name 'zhe' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Peter Patel-Schneider Unknown m_schnei.a Michael Smith Ivan Herman Rinke Hoekstra Markus Krötzsch Michael Schneider Boris Motik Uli Sattler Unknown jjc Achille Fokoue Bernardo Cuenca Grau Sandro Hawke Alan Ruttenberg Bijan Parsia Ian Horrocks Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: knowledge is stored in triples [ Scribe Assist by Unknown zhe ] ←

19:14:13 <pfps_> q?

Peter Patel-Schneider: q? ←

19:14:22 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

19:14:27 <MichaelSmith> q+

Michael Smith: q+ ←

19:14:31 <bijan> It must! Or editors can't be based on Jena!

Bijan Parsia: It must! Or editors can't be based on Jena! ←

19:14:39 <zhe> jjc: as you add more knowledge to Jena model, you don't retract triples

Unknown jjc: as you add more knowledge to Jena model, you don't retract triples [ Scribe Assist by Unknown zhe ] ←

19:14:43 <sandro> JJC: the problem here is that as you add triples, some of the old triples are supposed to be changed -- and that's not how Jena wants things to work.

Unknown jjc: the problem here is that as you add triples, some of the old triples are supposed to be changed -- and that's not how Jena wants things to work. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

19:14:50 <zhe> ... it is a fundamental design

Unknown zhe: ... it is a fundamental design ←

19:14:51 <pfps_> ack bmotik

Peter Patel-Schneider: ack bmotik ←

19:14:53 <alanr> reasoning != editing

Alan Ruttenberg: reasoning != editing ←

19:15:09 <zhe> bmotik: if Jena is a triple based, do we really need to retract triples?

Boris Motik: if Jena is a triple based, do we really need to retract triples? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown zhe ] ←

19:15:26 <zhe> ... I don't see why these mapping rules will require you to retract triples?

Unknown zhe: ... I don't see why these mapping rules will require you to retract triples? ←

19:15:29 <MichaelSmith> q-

Michael Smith: q- ←

19:15:29 <zhe> jjc: not clear

Unknown jjc: not clear [ Scribe Assist by Unknown zhe ] ←

19:15:30 <bijan> alanr... I don't understand the relevance of that comment

Bijan Parsia: alanr... I don't understand the relevance of that comment ←

19:15:40 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

19:15:40 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

19:15:43 <pfps_> zakim, who is talking?

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is talking? ←

19:15:44 <zhe> pfps: bijan proposed to do something?

Peter Patel-Schneider: bijan proposed to do something? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown zhe ] ←

19:15:48 <MichaelSmith> I was going to agree with Bijan, which is what I understand boris to have done as well

Michael Smith: I was going to agree with Bijan, which is what I understand boris to have done as well ←

19:15:52 <alanr> can answer bijan, if necessary

Alan Ruttenberg: can answer bijan, if necessary ←

19:16:05 <Zakim> pfps_, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps_ (9%), jjc (4%), Alan_Ruttenberg (4%), bijan (100%)

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps_, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: pfps_ (9%), jjc (4%), Alan_Ruttenberg (4%), bijan (100%) ←

19:16:09 <zhe> bijan: has no clue about the problem. not sure which email is relevant.

Bijan Parsia: has no clue about the problem. not sure which email is relevant. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown zhe ] ←

19:16:15 <alanr> great!

Alan Ruttenberg: great! ←

19:16:16 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

19:16:16 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

19:16:22 <zhe> pfps: take an action to write up an email summarizing

Peter Patel-Schneider: take an action to write up an email summarizing [ Scribe Assist by Unknown zhe ] ←

19:16:28 <bijan> I also don't understand the assertion that Jena can't delete

Bijan Parsia: I also don't understand the assertion that Jena can't delete ←

19:16:40 <zhe> ... my understanding of this problem

Unknown zhe: ... my understanding of this problem ←

19:16:48 <zhe> topic: action 16

5. ACTION-16

19:16:52 <bmotik> ACTION: pfps to Write up his understanding of ISSUE-68 (nonmonotonic mapping rules)

ACTION: pfps to Write up his understanding of ISSUE-68 (nonmonotonic mapping rules) ←

19:16:52 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - pfps

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - pfps ←

19:17:07 <sandro> trackbot-ng, list users?

Sandro Hawke: trackbot-ng, list users? ←

19:17:10 <bmotik> ACTION: patelschneider to Write up his understanding of ISSUE-68 (nonmonotonic mapping rules)

ACTION: patelschneider to Write up his understanding of ISSUE-68 (nonmonotonic mapping rules) ←

19:17:10 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - patelschneider

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - patelschneider ←

19:17:14 <sandro> trackbot-ng, list users

Sandro Hawke: trackbot-ng, list users ←

19:17:15 <alanr> in the sense that pellet (used to?) be unable to retract without doing a lot of work

Alan Ruttenberg: in the sense that pellet (used to?) be unable to retract without doing a lot of work ←

19:17:15 <bijan> TopQuadrent is based on Jena and handles OWL 1.1 (by extending Jena)...isn't this an existence counterproof?

Bijan Parsia: TopQuadrent is based on Jena and handles OWL 1.1 (by extending Jena)...isn't this an existence counterproof? ←

19:17:25 <bmotik> ACTION: peter to Write up his understanding of ISSUE-68 (nonmonotonic mapping rules)

ACTION: peter to Write up his understanding of ISSUE-68 (nonmonotonic mapping rules) ←

19:17:25 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - peter

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - peter ←

19:17:25 <trackbot-ng> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ppatelsc, phaase)

Trackbot IRC Bot: Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ppatelsc, phaase) ←

19:17:31 <alanr> pre: incremental reasoning

Scribe problem: the name 'pre' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Peter Patel-Schneider Unknown m_schnei.a Michael Smith Ivan Herman Rinke Hoekstra Markus Krötzsch Michael Schneider Boris Motik Uli Sattler Unknown jjc Achille Fokoue Bernardo Cuenca Grau Sandro Hawke Alan Ruttenberg Bijan Parsia Ian Horrocks Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown pre: incremental reasoning [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←

19:17:32 <bmotik> ACTION: patel-schneider to Write up his understanding of ISSUE-68 (nonmonotonic mapping rules)

ACTION: patel-schneider to Write up his understanding of ISSUE-68 (nonmonotonic mapping rules) ←

19:17:32 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-92 - Write up his understanding of ISSUE-68 (nonmonotonic mapping rules) [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2008-02-27].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-92 - Write up his understanding of ISSUE-68 (nonmonotonic mapping rules) [on Peter Patel-Schneider - due 2008-02-27]. ←

19:17:36 <zhe> pfps: defer it

Peter Patel-Schneider: defer it [ Scribe Assist by Unknown zhe ] ←

19:17:40 <zhe> Topic: issue 69

6. ISSUE-69

19:17:48 <zhe> issue 69 punning is incompatible with OWL Full

Unknown zhe: ISSUE-69 punning is incompatible with OWL Full ←

19:17:53 <alanr> how so?

Alan Ruttenberg: how so? ←

19:18:02 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

19:18:08 <bijan> And: http://jena.sourceforge.net/javadoc/index.html

Scribe problem: the name 'And' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Peter Patel-Schneider Unknown m_schnei.a Michael Smith Ivan Herman Rinke Hoekstra Markus Krötzsch Michael Schneider Boris Motik Uli Sattler Unknown jjc Achille Fokoue Bernardo Cuenca Grau Sandro Hawke Alan Ruttenberg Bijan Parsia Ian Horrocks Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown And: http://jena.sourceforge.net/javadoc/index.html [ Scribe Assist by Bijan Parsia ] ←

19:18:25 <bijan> I meant: http://jena.sourceforge.net/javadoc/com/hp/hpl/jena/rdf/model/Model.html#remove(com.hp.hpl.jena.rdf.model.Statement)

Bijan Parsia: I meant: http://jena.sourceforge.net/javadoc/com/hp/hpl/jena/rdf/model/Model.html#remove(com.hp.hpl.jena.rdf.model.Statement) ←

19:18:40 <bmotik> I do

Boris Motik: I do ←

19:18:42 <bijan> How is it that Jena can't delete triples?

Bijan Parsia: How is it that Jena can't delete triples? ←

19:18:44 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←

19:18:46 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←

19:19:03 <ivan> ack bmotik

Ivan Herman: ack bmotik ←

19:19:07 <jjc> Jena can delete triples, but not as part of the process of adding other triples

Unknown jjc: Jena can delete triples, but not as part of the process of adding other triples ←

19:19:18 <zhe> bmotik: it is incompatible with owl full semantics.

Boris Motik: it is incompatible with owl full semantics. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown zhe ] ←

19:19:33 <zhe> ... in owl 1.0, DL and FULL are not completely aligned.

Unknown zhe: ... in owl 1.0, DL and FULL are not completely aligned. ←

19:19:46 <alanr> property punning is the only issue that I see

Alan Ruttenberg: property punning is the only issue that I see ←

19:19:48 <pfps_> note for scribe - the IRC messages should be moved into the previous topic

Peter Patel-Schneider: note for scribe - the IRC messages should be moved into the previous topic ←

19:19:51 <alanr> cardinality

Alan Ruttenberg: cardinality ←

19:19:59 <bijan> I really don't understand why that does...

Bijan Parsia: I really don't understand why that does... ←

19:20:03 <bijan> er...matters

Bijan Parsia: er...matters ←

19:20:15 <sandro> Chair: IanH, pfps

19:20:19 <pfps_> q?

Peter Patel-Schneider: q? ←

19:20:29 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+ ←

19:20:42 <ivan> ack alanr

Ivan Herman: ack alanr ←

19:20:45 <zhe> bmotik: don't see it as a showstopper

Boris Motik: don't see it as a showstopper [ Scribe Assist by Unknown zhe ] ←

19:21:08 <bmotik> Alan, this issue is much more than about cardinality.

Boris Motik: Alan, this issue is much more than about cardinality. ←

19:21:17 <Uli> also, since punning makes more ontologies falls into OWL 1.1/DL, we might also lose some more theorems?

Uli Sattler: also, since punning makes more ontologies falls into OWL 1.1/DL, we might also lose some more theorems? ←

19:21:21 <sandro> Present: pfps_, unknown, MichaelSmith, Ivan, Rinke, MarkusK, m_schnei, bmotik, uli, jjc, Achille, bcuencagrau, Sandro, Alan_Ruttenberg, bijan, IanH

Scribe problem: the name 'unknown' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu

19:21:34 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

19:21:47 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

19:21:47 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

19:21:50 <ivan> ack bijan

Ivan Herman: ack bijan ←

19:22:00 <Uli> Alan, can you write this comment into IRC?

Uli Sattler: Alan, can you write this comment into IRC? ←

19:22:11 <zhe> bijan: have all sorts of punning in pellet

Scribe problem: the name 'zhe' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Peter Patel-Schneider Unknown unknown Michael Smith Ivan Herman Rinke Hoekstra Markus Krötzsch Michael Schneider Boris Motik Uli Sattler Unknown jjc Achille Fokoue Bernardo Cuenca Grau Sandro Hawke Alan Ruttenberg Bijan Parsia Ian Horrocks Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Bijan Parsia: have all sorts of punning in pellet [ Scribe Assist by Unknown zhe ] ←

19:22:14 <pfps_> alanr: property punning causes more problems than other punning

Alan Ruttenberg: property punning causes more problems than other punning [ Scribe Assist by Peter Patel-Schneider ] ←

19:22:20 <zhe> ... encountered no problems so far

Scribe problem: the name 'zhe' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Peter Patel-Schneider Unknown unknown Michael Smith Ivan Herman Rinke Hoekstra Markus Krötzsch Michael Schneider Boris Motik Uli Sattler Unknown jjc Achille Fokoue Bernardo Cuenca Grau Sandro Hawke Alan Ruttenberg Bijan Parsia Ian Horrocks Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown zhe: ... encountered no problems so far ←

19:22:39 <jjc> that's a nice point

Unknown jjc: that's a nice point ←

19:22:41 <Uli> ok, but what was the point about cardinality?

Uli Sattler: ok, but what was the point about cardinality? ←

19:22:46 <alanr> I've used pellet a lot. I would be surprised about cardinality issues. ymmv.

Alan Ruttenberg: I've used pellet a lot. I would be surprised about cardinality issues. ymmv. ←

19:23:00 <Zakim> + +0789107aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: + +0789107aaff ←

19:23:01 <pfps_> q?

Peter Patel-Schneider: q? ←

19:23:12 <zhe> bijan: able to handle more graphs is really important

Scribe problem: the name 'zhe' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Peter Patel-Schneider Unknown unknown Michael Smith Ivan Herman Rinke Hoekstra Markus Krötzsch Michael Schneider Boris Motik Uli Sattler Unknown jjc Achille Fokoue Bernardo Cuenca Grau Sandro Hawke Alan Ruttenberg Bijan Parsia Ian Horrocks Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Bijan Parsia: able to handle more graphs is really important [ Scribe Assist by Unknown zhe ] ←

19:23:14 <jjc> zakim, mute aaff

Unknown jjc: zakim, mute aaff ←

19:23:14 <Zakim> +0789107aaff should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: +0789107aaff should now be muted ←

19:23:20 <Zakim> -jjc

Zakim IRC Bot: -jjc ←

19:23:27 <zhe> ... don't think punning is a really issue

Scribe problem: the name 'zhe' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Peter Patel-Schneider Unknown unknown Michael Smith Ivan Herman Rinke Hoekstra Markus Krötzsch Michael Schneider Boris Motik Uli Sattler Unknown jjc Achille Fokoue Bernardo Cuenca Grau Sandro Hawke Alan Ruttenberg Bijan Parsia Ian Horrocks Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown zhe: ... don't think punning is a really issue ←

19:23:28 <jjc> zakim aaff -s me

Unknown jjc: zakim aaff -s me ←

19:23:31 <jjc> zakim aaff is me

Unknown jjc: zakim aaff is me ←

19:23:35 <jjc> zakim, aaff is me

Unknown jjc: zakim, aaff is me ←

19:23:35 <Zakim> +jjc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jjc; got it ←

19:23:40 <m_schnei> as boris said: there is only one "compatibility" aspect in 1.0, and this will be maintained in 1.1 with punning: 1.1-Full will have every 1.1-DL entailment (for legal 1.1-DL onts)

Michael Schneider: as boris said: there is only one "compatibility" aspect in 1.0, and this will be maintained in 1.1 with punning: 1.1-Full will have every 1.1-DL entailment (for legal 1.1-DL onts) ←

19:24:09 <zhe> alanr: change the way owl dl works.

Scribe problem: the name 'zhe' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Peter Patel-Schneider Unknown unknown Michael Smith Ivan Herman Rinke Hoekstra Markus Krötzsch Michael Schneider Boris Motik Uli Sattler Unknown jjc Achille Fokoue Bernardo Cuenca Grau Sandro Hawke Alan Ruttenberg Bijan Parsia Ian Horrocks Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Alan Ruttenberg: change the way owl dl works. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown zhe ] ←

19:24:11 <m_schnei> see sec 5.4 in AS&S

Michael Schneider: see sec 5.4 in AS&S ←

19:24:31 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

19:24:31 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

19:24:38 <m_schnei> +1 to close/rejected

Michael Schneider: +1 to close/rejected ←

19:24:45 <bijan> +1

Bijan Parsia: +1 ←

19:24:48 <pfps_> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ ←

19:24:48 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1 ←

19:24:51 <MarkusK> +1

Markus Krötzsch: +1 ←

19:24:53 <zhe> pfps: close to our time

Scribe problem: the name 'zhe' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Peter Patel-Schneider Unknown unknown Michael Smith Ivan Herman Rinke Hoekstra Markus Krötzsch Michael Schneider Boris Motik Uli Sattler Unknown jjc Achille Fokoue Bernardo Cuenca Grau Sandro Hawke Alan Ruttenberg Bijan Parsia Ian Horrocks Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Peter Patel-Schneider: close to our time [ Scribe Assist by Unknown zhe ] ←

19:24:54 <sandro> pfps: I don't know the way forward on this.   I leave it to the chairs to make a decision.

Peter Patel-Schneider: I don't know the way forward on this. I leave it to the chairs to make a decision. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

19:25:09 <pfps_> ack bmotik

Peter Patel-Schneider: ack bmotik ←

19:25:11 <bmotik> I wanted to say something as well about punning.

Boris Motik: I wanted to say something as well about punning. ←

19:25:12 <ivan> ack jjc

Ivan Herman: ack jjc ←

19:25:20 <pfps_> ack jjc

Peter Patel-Schneider: ack jjc ←

19:25:47 <pfps_> jjc: bijan's comments about different compatability useful, sill consult

Unknown jjc: bijan's comments about different compatability useful, will consult [ Scribe Assist by Peter Patel-Schneider ] ←

19:25:54 <ivan> s/sill/will/

19:25:55 <zhe> thanks peter

Scribe problem: the name 'zhe' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Peter Patel-Schneider Unknown unknown Michael Smith Ivan Herman Rinke Hoekstra Markus Krötzsch Michael Schneider Boris Motik Uli Sattler Unknown jjc Achille Fokoue Bernardo Cuenca Grau Sandro Hawke Alan Ruttenberg Bijan Parsia Ian Horrocks Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown zhe: thanks peter ←

19:25:55 <Uli> s/sill/will

19:26:16 <bijan> I'll have to miss that

Bijan Parsia: I'll have to miss that ←

19:26:24 <bijan> because I'm teaching all day long

Bijan Parsia: because I'm teaching all day long ←

19:26:27 <alanr> ok

Alan Ruttenberg: ok ←

19:26:30 <bijan> After that I'm free

Bijan Parsia: After that I'm free ←

19:26:45 <zhe> pfps: defer that UFD meeting.

Scribe problem: the name 'zhe' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Peter Patel-Schneider Unknown unknown Michael Smith Ivan Herman Rinke Hoekstra Markus Krötzsch Michael Schneider Boris Motik Uli Sattler Unknown jjc Achille Fokoue Bernardo Cuenca Grau Sandro Hawke Alan Ruttenberg Bijan Parsia Ian Horrocks Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Peter Patel-Schneider: defer that UFD meeting. [ Scribe Assist by Unknown zhe ] ←

19:27:13 <Uli> hooray

Uli Sattler: hooray ←

19:27:17 <bmotik> Bye

Boris Motik: Bye ←

19:27:18 <Zakim> -bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan ←

19:27:20 <Rinke> ok, thanks

Rinke Hoekstra: ok, thanks ←

19:27:20 <ivan> bye everyone

Ivan Herman: bye everyone ←

19:27:21 <Rinke> bye

Rinke Hoekstra: bye ←

19:27:21 <Uli> bye

Uli Sattler: bye ←

19:27:26 <Achille> bye

Achille Fokoue: bye ←

19:27:28 <Elisa> bye

Scribe problem: the name 'Elisa' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Peter Patel-Schneider Unknown unknown Michael Smith Ivan Herman Rinke Hoekstra Markus Krötzsch Michael Schneider Boris Motik Uli Sattler Unknown jjc Achille Fokoue Bernardo Cuenca Grau Sandro Hawke Alan Ruttenberg Bijan Parsia Ian Horrocks Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Elisa: bye ←

19:27:29 <MarkusK> bye

Markus Krötzsch: bye ←

19:27:29 <sandro> zhe, hold on just a moment and I'll have the wiki minutes ready

Sandro Hawke: zhe, hold on just a moment and I'll have the wiki minutes ready ←

19:27:30 <Zakim> -jjc

Zakim IRC Bot: -jjc ←

19:27:30 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes

Ivan Herman: rrsagent, draft minutes ←

19:27:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-owl-minutes.html ivan

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/20-owl-minutes.html ivan ←

19:27:32 <sandro> NEITHER

Sandro Hawke: NEITHER ←

19:27:34 <Zakim> -MarkusK

Zakim IRC Bot: -MarkusK ←

19:27:35 <Zakim> -bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←

19:27:35 <Zakim> -Rinke

Zakim IRC Bot: -Rinke ←

19:27:37 <Zakim> -Achille

Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille ←

19:27:39 <Zakim> -Elisa_Kendall

Zakim IRC Bot: -Elisa_Kendall ←

19:27:46 <MichaelSmith> bye all

Michael Smith: bye all ←

19:27:47 <sandro> YES, just a second.

Sandro Hawke: YES, just a second. ←

19:27:49 <Zakim> -MichaelSmith

Zakim IRC Bot: -MichaelSmith ←

19:27:55 <Zakim> -uli

Zakim IRC Bot: -uli ←

19:27:57 <sandro> I'll tell you on IRC in 45 seconds.

Sandro Hawke: I'll tell you on IRC in 45 seconds. ←

19:28:50 <sandro> zhe, http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.20/Minutes is ready for you now.

Sandro Hawke: zhe, http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.02.20/Minutes is ready for you now. ←

19:29:01 <zhe> thanks

Scribe problem: the name 'zhe' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Peter Patel-Schneider Unknown unknown Michael Smith Ivan Herman Rinke Hoekstra Markus Krötzsch Michael Schneider Boris Motik Uli Sattler Unknown jjc Achille Fokoue Bernardo Cuenca Grau Sandro Hawke Alan Ruttenberg Bijan Parsia Ian Horrocks Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown zhe: thanks ←

19:29:01 <alanr> bye

Alan Ruttenberg: bye ←

19:29:07 <sandro> ciao, all!

Sandro Hawke: ciao, all! ←

19:29:08 <zhe> bye

Scribe problem: the name 'zhe' does not match any of the 19 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Peter Patel-Schneider Unknown unknown Michael Smith Ivan Herman Rinke Hoekstra Markus Krötzsch Michael Schneider Boris Motik Uli Sattler Unknown jjc Achille Fokoue Bernardo Cuenca Grau Sandro Hawke Alan Ruttenberg Bijan Parsia Ian Horrocks Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown zhe: bye ←

19:29:09 <Zakim> -Alan_Ruttenberg

Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan_Ruttenberg ←

19:29:11 <Zakim> -pfps_

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps_ ←

19:29:13 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←

19:29:15 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←

19:29:16 <Zakim> -m_schnei

Zakim IRC Bot: -m_schnei ←

19:29:34 <Zakim> -m_schnei.a

Zakim IRC Bot: -m_schnei.a ←

19:35:01 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, bcuencagrau, in SW_OWL()12:00PM

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, bcuencagrau, in SW_OWL()12:00PM ←

19:35:04 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended ←

19:35:06 <Zakim> Attendees were pfps_work, Ivan, +1.202.408.aaaa, MichaelSmith, +31.20.525.aabb, pfps_, Rinke, +0186527aacc, IanH, MarkusK, +1.603.897.aadd, bmotik, m_schnei, uli, jjc, Achille,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were pfps_work, Ivan, +1.202.408.aaaa, MichaelSmith, +31.20.525.aabb, pfps_, Rinke, +0186527aacc, IanH, MarkusK, +1.603.897.aadd, bmotik, m_schnei, uli, jjc, Achille, ←

19:35:09 <Zakim> ... bcuencagrau, +49.351.463.3.aaee, Sandro, Carsten, Alan_Ruttenberg, bijan, Elisa_Kendall, +0789107aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: ... bcuencagrau, +49.351.463.3.aaee, Sandro, Carsten, Alan_Ruttenberg, bijan, Elisa_Kendall, +0789107aaff ←

Formatted by CommonScribe