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15:03:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/04-owl-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/02/04-owl-irc ←
15:03:20 <Zakim> -Vipul_Kashyap
Zakim IRC Bot: -Vipul_Kashyap ←
15:03:32 <alanr> zakim, who is here?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←
15:03:34 <pfps> rrsagent, bookmark
Peter Patel-Schneider: rrsagent, bookmark ←
15:03:34 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/02/04-owl-irc#T15-03-34
RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/02/04-owl-irc#T15-03-34 ←
15:03:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Achille, Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps, Achille, Alan ←
15:03:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, alanr, Zakim, Achille, pfps, sandro, Carsten, trackbot-ng
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, alanr, Zakim, Achille, pfps, sandro, Carsten, trackbot-ng ←
15:04:15 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Imports
Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Imports ←
15:04:47 <Zakim> +??P6
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P6 ←
15:05:06 <alanr> zakim, ??P6 is Jeremy
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, ??P6 is Jeremy ←
15:05:06 <Zakim> +Jeremy; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Jeremy; got it ←
15:05:23 <pfps> you sound much better? is your teleconference cold over?
Peter Patel-Schneider: you sound much better? is your teleconference cold over? ←
15:05:25 <Jeremy> q-
Jeremy Carroll: q- ←
15:05:51 <pfps> i don't know whether Bijan will be here
Peter Patel-Schneider: i don't know whether Bijan will be here ←
15:05:54 <Jeremy> I am in the UK, rather than a hotel room in Athens!
Jeremy Carroll: I am in the UK, rather than a hotel room in Athens! ←
15:06:28 <pfps> yes, but for the last while you appear to have been Skyping in, with the usual Skype echo
Peter Patel-Schneider: yes, but for the last while you appear to have been Skyping in, with the usual Skype echo ←
15:06:50 <alanr> zakim, who is here?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←
15:06:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps, Achille, Alan, Jeremy
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps, Achille, Alan, Jeremy ←
15:06:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see Jeremy, RRSAgent, alanr, Zakim, Achille, pfps, sandro, Carsten, trackbot-ng
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Jeremy, RRSAgent, alanr, Zakim, Achille, pfps, sandro, Carsten, trackbot-ng ←
15:10:19 <Jeremy> scribenick: Jeremy
(Scribe set to Jeremy Carroll)
15:10:29 <Zakim> +??P11
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11 ←
15:11:02 <bmotik> Zakim, ??P11 is me
Boris Motik: Zakim, ??P11 is me ←
15:11:02 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it ←
15:11:03 <alanr> zakim, ??P1 is Boris
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, ??P1 is Boris ←
15:11:04 <Zakim> I already had ??P1 as +1.617.324.aaaa, alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P1 as +1.617.324.aaaa, alanr ←
15:11:15 <alanr> zakim, ??P11 is Boris
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, ??P11 is Boris ←
15:11:15 <Zakim> I already had ??P11 as bmotik, alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P11 as bmotik, alanr ←
15:11:24 <alanr> zakim, who here?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who here? ←
15:11:24 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, alanr.
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, alanr. ←
15:11:28 <alanr> zakim, who is here?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←
15:11:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfps (muted), Achille, Alan, Jeremy, bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see pfps (muted), Achille, Alan, Jeremy, bmotik ←
15:11:29 <Zakim> On IRC I see IanH, bmotik, Jeremy, RRSAgent, alanr, Zakim, Achille, pfps, sandro, Carsten, trackbot-ng
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see IanH, bmotik, Jeremy, RRSAgent, alanr, Zakim, Achille, pfps, sandro, Carsten, trackbot-ng ←
15:11:48 <Jeremy> Achille: on the three proposals on the Imports page
Achille Fokoue: on the three proposals on the Imports page ←
15:12:14 <Jeremy> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Imports
http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Imports ←
15:12:17 <alanr> Note to Boris, Ian - I added a new proposal 4.3
Alan Ruttenberg: Note to Boris, Ian - I added a new proposal 4.3 ←
15:12:50 <Jeremy> Achille: like proposal 2, by name - but there are ordering concerns
Achille Fokoue: like proposal 2, by name - but there are ordering concerns ←
15:14:48 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
15:14:55 <alanr> q+ alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ alanr ←
15:14:58 <Jeremy> Achille: desirable that mechanisms for deployment defined in config files, rather than in ontology themselves
Achille Fokoue: desirable that mechanisms for deployment defined in config files, rather than in ontology themselves ←
15:15:24 <Jeremy> Achille: we are seeing ontologies being used say internally rather than on the web
Achille Fokoue: we are seeing ontologies being used say internally rather than on the web ←
15:15:40 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
15:16:37 <Jeremy> Achille: internal mechanism is similar to that of XML Schema, where schemalocation attribute is a hint to the processor
Achille Fokoue: internal mechanism is similar to that of XML Schema, where schemalocation attribute is a hint to the processor ←
15:16:49 <Jeremy> but the processor can use any internal mechanism to locate the schema
but the processor can use any internal mechanism to locate the schema ←
15:17:37 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
15:17:37 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
15:17:39 <Jeremy> Alan: my proposal (#3) allows you to do this, by importing another file that captures the mapping
Alan Ruttenberg: my proposal (#3) allows you to do this, by importing another file that captures the mapping ←
15:17:42 <pfps> q+
15:17:52 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
15:17:52 <Zakim> pfps was not muted, pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was not muted, pfps ←
15:17:53 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
15:19:13 <Jeremy> Peter: alan how do you mandate the ordering constraints in #3
Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Patel-Schneider Peter Haase . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Peter: alan how do you mandate the ordering constraints in #3 ←
15:19:24 <Jeremy> Peter: RDF does not support ordering constraints
Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Patel-Schneider Peter Haase . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Peter: RDF does not support ordering constraints ←
15:19:47 <Achille> q+
Achille Fokoue: q+ ←
15:19:48 <Jeremy> Alan: you load a different file, that includes the original and the mappings
Alan Ruttenberg: you load a different file, that includes the original and the mappings ←
15:20:22 <Jeremy> Peter: but that would only work at the top-level, you would need to have control at lower levels too
Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Patel-Schneider Peter Haase . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Peter: but that would only work at the top-level, you would need to have control at lower levels too ←
15:21:15 <Jeremy> Peter: to modify the method of importing an ontology you would need to understand the imports-closure of the file you are loading
Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Patel-Schneider Peter Haase . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Peter: to modify the method of importing an ontology you would need to understand the imports-closure of the file you are loading ←
15:22:20 <Jeremy> q+ to suggest some SHOULDs ....
q+ to suggest some SHOULDs .... ←
15:22:47 <Zakim> +msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: +msmith ←
15:22:55 <Zakim> -Alan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan ←
15:23:01 <Jeremy> Alan: can we modify RDF header
Alan Ruttenberg: can we modify RDF header ←
15:23:08 <Jeremy> Peter: I don't think so.
Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Patel-Schneider Peter Haase . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Peter: I don't think so. ←
15:23:15 <msmith> apologies, I had an off by one hour scheduling mistake, just joined
Michael Smith: apologies, I had an off by one hour scheduling mistake, just joined ←
15:23:16 <Jeremy> Alan: I looked and thought we could
Alan Ruttenberg: I looked and thought we could ←
15:23:24 <alanr> my phone is crap. back in a sec
Alan Ruttenberg: my phone is crap. back in a sec ←
15:23:40 <Jeremy> Boris goes:
Boris goes: ←
15:23:51 <pfps> q+ to talk about overriding intent of ontologies on the web
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to talk about overriding intent of ontologies on the web ←
15:23:56 <pfps> q-
15:24:05 <Zakim> +Alan_Ruttenberg
Zakim IRC Bot: +Alan_Ruttenberg ←
15:24:08 <pfps> q+ to talk about overriding intent of ontologies on the web
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to talk about overriding intent of ontologies on the web ←
15:24:30 <Jeremy> Boris: on third proposal
Boris Motik: on third proposal ←
15:24:56 <Jeremy> Boris: I didn't understand the use of sameAs to encode equivalence between ontologies
Boris Motik: I didn't understand the use of sameAs to encode equivalence between ontologies ←
15:25:29 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
15:25:29 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
15:25:35 <Jeremy> Boris: in DL world this gives ontologies status of individuals and may lead to confusion about how much reasoning is permitted/expected
Boris Motik: in DL world this gives ontologies status of individuals and may lead to confusion about how much reasoning is permitted/expected ←
15:25:37 <alanr> point taken - alternate mechanism for equivalence reasonable
Alan Ruttenberg: point taken - alternate mechanism for equivalence reasonable ←
15:25:52 <Jeremy> Boris: we shouldn't be mixing logical and metalogical levels.
Boris Motik: we shouldn't be mixing logical and metalogical levels. ←
15:26:34 <Jeremy> Boris: while I was advocating #2 (by name) we could do this by having #1 with some disclaimer that permitted tools to do #2.
Boris Motik: while I was advocating #2 (by name) we could do this by having #1 with some disclaimer that permitted tools to do #2. ←
15:26:36 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
15:26:42 <bmotik> q-
Boris Motik: q- ←
15:26:42 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
15:26:51 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
15:26:51 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
15:27:11 <Jeremy> Achille: I would 2nd Boris in allowing tools to override imports by location
Achille Fokoue: I would 2nd Boris in allowing tools to override imports by location ←
15:27:46 <Jeremy> Achille: question to Alan in #3 can I change location without modifying the ontologies themselves?
Achille Fokoue: question to Alan in #3 can I change location without modifying the ontologies themselves? ←
15:28:18 <Jeremy> Alan: yes that's the idea
Alan Ruttenberg: yes that's the idea ←
15:28:30 <alanr> ack achille
Alan Ruttenberg: ack achille ←
15:28:37 <Jeremy> ack Jeremy
ack Jeremy ←
15:28:38 <Zakim> Jeremy, you wanted to suggest some SHOULDs ....
Zakim IRC Bot: Jeremy, you wanted to suggest some SHOULDs .... ←
15:28:40 <alanr> ack Jeremy
Alan Ruttenberg: ack Jeremy ←
15:29:25 <alanr> q+ alanr to discuss his use cases versus proposed solution
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ alanr to discuss his use cases versus proposed solution ←
15:30:45 <alanr> alan notes that tools support different mechanisms - I've experience thrashing on this
Alan Ruttenberg: alan notes that tools support different mechanisms - I've experience thrashing on this ←
15:31:23 <pfps> ack me
Peter Patel-Schneider: ack me ←
15:31:25 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to talk about overriding intent of ontologies on the web
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, you wanted to talk about overriding intent of ontologies on the web ←
15:31:27 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
15:31:48 <Jeremy> Jeremy: we could have SHOULDs that put Ontology elements first, while not strict RDF ....
Jeremy Carroll: we could have SHOULDs that put Ontology elements first, while not strict RDF .... ←
15:32:02 <Jeremy> Jeremy: we could publish vocabs for alternative locations
Jeremy Carroll: we could publish vocabs for alternative locations ←
15:32:04 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
15:32:04 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to discuss his use cases versus proposed solution
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to discuss his use cases versus proposed solution ←
15:32:09 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
15:32:09 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
15:32:35 <Jeremy> Peter: overriding a publishers imports statement by providing an alternative location is incorrect, since it changes their intent
Scribe problem: the name 'Peter' is ambiguous. It could be any of: Peter Patel-Schneider Peter Haase . Either change the name used or insert a 'PRESENT: ...' line to restrict the active names.
Unknown Peter: overriding a publishers imports statement by providing an alternative location is incorrect, since it changes their intent ←
15:33:26 <Jeremy> Alan: use cases for providing alternative location
Alan Ruttenberg: use cases for providing alternative location ←
15:33:32 <Jeremy> Alan: editing local version
Alan Ruttenberg: editing local version ←
15:33:58 <Jeremy> Alan: doing testing before publishing/ or checking for comaptible
Alan Ruttenberg: doing testing before publishing/ or checking for comaptible ←
15:34:18 <pfps> zakim, who is talking?
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, who is talking? ←
15:34:29 <Zakim> pfps, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jeremy (5%), Alan_Ruttenberg (91%)
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jeremy (5%), Alan_Ruttenberg (91%) ←
15:34:36 <Jeremy> Alan: another use case allows people to not to have change their namespace
Alan Ruttenberg: another use case allows people to not to have change their namespace ←
15:34:41 <Jeremy> Zakim, mute me
Zakim, mute me ←
15:34:41 <Zakim> Jeremy should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Jeremy should now be muted ←
15:34:59 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
15:35:23 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
15:35:26 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:35:26 <Zakim> bmotik was not muted, bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik was not muted, bmotik ←
15:35:34 <Jeremy> Alan: in versioning scenario what happens if I use latest version, but someone else in imports closure uses a different version
Alan Ruttenberg: in versioning scenario what happens if I use latest version, but someone else in imports closure uses a different version ←
15:36:01 <pfps> q+ to mention that if a designer points to a specific version, then who are we to override ?
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to mention that if a designer points to a specific version, then who are we to override ? ←
15:36:14 <Jeremy> Boris: there are many many use cases, btu specifiying corect behaviour may get out of hand
Boris Motik: there are many many use cases, btu specifiying corect behaviour may get out of hand ←
15:36:31 <alanr> q+ alanr to say outside spec is ok, as long as there is a working version in spec.
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ alanr to say outside spec is ok, as long as there is a working version in spec. ←
15:36:33 <Jeremy> Boris: there are many many use cases, btu specifiying corect behaviour may get out of hand
Boris Motik: there are many many use cases, btu specifiying corect behaviour may get out of hand ←
15:36:33 <Achille> +1 for Boris's idea of leaving the resolution to the tools
Achille Fokoue: +1 for Boris's idea of leaving the resolution to the tools ←
15:36:35 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
15:36:36 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to mention that if a designer points to a specific version, then who are we to override ?
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, you wanted to mention that if a designer points to a specific version, then who are we to override ? ←
15:36:39 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
15:36:39 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
15:36:43 <Jeremy> Boris: there are many many use cases, but specifiying corect behaviour may get out of hand
Boris Motik: there are many many use cases, but specifiying corect behaviour may get out of hand ←
15:37:09 <alanr> q+ to stop losing because protege does it this way
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to stop losing because protege does it this way ←
15:37:13 <Achille> +q
Achille Fokoue: +q ←
15:37:23 <Jeremy> Boris: we could not specify much, but allow tools to deviate from strict implementation
Boris Motik: we could not specify much, but allow tools to deviate from strict implementation ←
15:37:32 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
15:37:36 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
15:37:36 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to say outside spec is ok, as long as there is a working version in spec. and to stop losing because protege does it this way
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to say outside spec is ok, as long as there is a working version in spec. and to stop losing because protege does it this way ←
15:37:42 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
15:37:42 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
15:37:52 <Jeremy> Pfps: If I publish an ontology usign a specific version then that is the version that should be used.
Peter Patel-Schneider: If I publish an ontology usign a specific version then that is the version that should be used. ←
15:38:26 <Jeremy> Pfps: If I am being stupid, then the correct fix is to educate me, not to import soemthing other than what I said
Peter Patel-Schneider: If I am being stupid, then the correct fix is to educate me, not to import soemthing other than what I said ←
15:39:14 <Jeremy> Alan: Unfortunately stupidity happens; and there should be work arounds for the user
Alan Ruttenberg: Unfortunately stupidity happens; and there should be work arounds for the user ←
15:39:49 <Jeremy> Alan: different tools use different mechanisms for this and it really doesn't work for me
Alan Ruttenberg: different tools use different mechanisms for this and it really doesn't work for me ←
15:40:07 <Jeremy> Alan: I waste a lot of time; and imports mechanism acts as vendor lock in
Alan Ruttenberg: I waste a lot of time; and imports mechanism acts as vendor lock in ←
15:40:30 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
15:40:30 <Jeremy> q+
q+ ←
15:40:36 <alanr> ack achille
Alan Ruttenberg: ack achille ←
15:41:01 <Jeremy> Achille: Addressing Peter's concern about ontology ownership
Achille Fokoue: Addressing Peter's concern about ontology ownership ←
15:41:21 <Jeremy> Achille: from point of view of application developer you may want a local copy
Achille Fokoue: from point of view of application developer you may want a local copy ←
15:41:34 <alanr> example: Narrow scope of ontology: Foaf-dl instead of foaf
Scribe problem: the name 'example' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown example: Narrow scope of ontology: Foaf-dl instead of foaf [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←
15:41:37 <Jeremy> Achille: possibly netwoek unreliability ...
Achille Fokoue: possibly netwoek unreliability ... ←
15:41:42 <pfps> q+ to mention that other errors also exist
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to mention that other errors also exist ←
15:41:53 <alanr> ack Jeremy
Alan Ruttenberg: ack Jeremy ←
15:41:54 <Jeremy> ack Jeremy
ack Jeremy ←
15:43:00 <alanr> ack pfps
Alan Ruttenberg: ack pfps ←
15:43:01 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to mention that other errors also exist
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, you wanted to mention that other errors also exist ←
15:43:11 <Jeremy> Jeremy: could we spcify imports by location, but provide caching
Jeremy Carroll: could we spcify imports by location, but provide caching ←
15:43:47 <Jeremy> Jeremy: and possibly a common vocab to allow tools to interoperate with local caching
Jeremy Carroll: and possibly a common vocab to allow tools to interoperate with local caching ←
15:44:02 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
15:44:06 <alanr> q+ to see if we can get consensus that there should be a compatible version across implementations
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to see if we can get consensus that there should be a compatible version across implementations ←
15:44:18 <Jeremy> Pfps: I don't see why we are picking on imports as something we can override
Peter Patel-Schneider: I don't see why we are picking on imports as something we can override ←
15:44:34 <Jeremy> Pfps: ontologies can be broken for many reasons
Peter Patel-Schneider: ontologies can be broken for many reasons ←
15:44:39 <alanr> q+ to say broken axioms can be handled by replacing ontology
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to say broken axioms can be handled by replacing ontology ←
15:44:40 <bmotik> Zakim, unmite me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmite me ←
15:44:40 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unmite me', bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'unmite me', bmotik ←
15:44:42 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
15:44:42 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
15:44:45 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
15:44:59 <Jeremy> Pfps: and if it is usefull to allow local users to fix imports, why shouldn't they fix axioms too
Peter Patel-Schneider: and if it is usefull to allow local users to fix imports, why shouldn't they fix axioms too ←
15:45:44 <alanr> alanr: Notes that processing model makes it clear what is supposed to go there
Alan Ruttenberg: Notes that processing model makes it clear what is supposed to go there [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←
15:45:55 <Jeremy> Boris: an example a colleague simply didn't know what URI to put in improts tag? Physical URI, or logical URI ....
Boris Motik: an example a colleague simply didn't know what URI to put in improts tag? Physical URI, or logical URI .... ←
15:46:13 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
15:46:13 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to see if we can get consensus that there should be a compatible version across implementations and to say broken axioms can be handled by replacing ontology
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to see if we can get consensus that there should be a compatible version across implementations and to say broken axioms can be handled by replacing ontology ←
15:46:14 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
15:46:18 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
15:46:50 <Jeremy> Alan: is there consensus that we should specify a mechanism to do this
Alan Ruttenberg: is there consensus that we should specify a mechanism to do this ←
15:47:01 <Jeremy> Alan: I hear a need for tools to override behaviour
Alan Ruttenberg: I hear a need for tools to override behaviour ←
15:47:45 <Achille> +1
Achille Fokoue: +1 ←
15:47:55 <Jeremy> Alan: I find it a pain that tools do this in different ways; so I would like to see some mechanism standardized ....
Alan Ruttenberg: I find it a pain that tools do this in different ways; so I would like to see some mechanism standardized .... ←
15:48:10 <alanr> PROPOSAL: We will define some mechanism for managing imports to handle the mentioned use cases that is in the language, without restricting tools from doing other things too
PROPOSED: We will define some mechanism for managing imports to handle the mentioned use cases that is in the language, without restricting tools from doing other things too ←
15:48:21 <pfps> q+ to ask what the proposal is
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to ask what the proposal is ←
15:48:24 <Achille> +1 one for Alan's idea of a min import mechanism
Achille Fokoue: +1 one for Alan's idea of a min import mechanism ←
15:48:30 <pfps> ack me
Peter Patel-Schneider: ack me ←
15:48:31 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to ask what the proposal is
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps, you wanted to ask what the proposal is ←
15:48:35 <Jeremy> +1 to pfps
+1 to pfps ←
15:49:19 <bmotik> +0.5 to Alanr's proposal
Boris Motik: +0.5 to Alanr's proposal ←
15:49:30 <msmith> +0 seems that this is more appropriate as a best practices doc than a language feature
Michael Smith: +0 seems that this is more appropriate as a best practices doc than a language feature ←
15:49:46 <Jeremy> pfps: you want to specify something that has nothing to do with the Web, but only to do with tools
Peter Patel-Schneider: you want to specify something that has nothing to do with the Web, but only to do with tools ←
15:49:52 <Jeremy> alan: yes
Alan Ruttenberg: yes ←
15:50:12 <Jeremy> pfps: you will need to specify a particular file location for overriding information
Peter Patel-Schneider: you will need to specify a particular file location for overriding information ←
15:50:27 <Jeremy> Alan: .... we will need to specify something
Alan Ruttenberg: .... we will need to specify something ←
15:50:29 <Jeremy> q+
q+ ←
15:50:34 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
15:50:36 <Jeremy> ack Jeremy
ack Jeremy ←
15:50:39 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
15:50:39 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
15:51:19 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
15:51:28 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:51:28 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
15:52:00 <Achille> q+
Achille Fokoue: q+ ←
15:52:15 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
15:52:31 <Jeremy> boris: people are using OWL in many different ways, and proscribing a particular file with resolution information may not work for all tools
Boris Motik: people are using OWL in many different ways, and proscribing a particular file with resolution information may not work for all tools ←
15:52:51 <Achille> q-
Achille Fokoue: q- ←
15:52:53 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
15:52:53 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
15:53:11 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
15:53:21 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
15:53:21 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
15:53:38 <msmith> q+ to suggest modifying proposal
Michael Smith: q+ to suggest modifying proposal ←
15:53:39 <alanr> PROPOSAL: We will define some mechanism for managing imports to handle the mentioned use cases that is in the language, without restricting tools from doing other things too
PROPOSED: We will define some mechanism for managing imports to handle the mentioned use cases that is in the language, without restricting tools from doing other things too ←
15:53:39 <Jeremy> (the proposal is a bit vague)
(the proposal is a bit vague) ←
15:53:41 <pfps> -1
15:53:52 <bmotik> boris: Perhaps we can define some mechanism along alanr's lines, but not as part of a core specification
Boris Motik: Perhaps we can define some mechanism along alanr's lines, but not as part of a core specification [ Scribe Assist by Boris Motik ] ←
15:54:11 <bmotik> boris: This mechanism might be defined as part of a "Best practices" document
Boris Motik: This mechanism might be defined as part of a "Best practices" document [ Scribe Assist by Boris Motik ] ←
15:54:12 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
15:54:13 <pfps> -1 too vague
Peter Patel-Schneider: -1 too vague ←
15:54:14 <Jeremy> pfps: we should not be defining solution to offweb issues
Peter Patel-Schneider: we should not be defining solution to offweb issues ←
15:54:20 <alanr> q+ alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ alanr ←
15:54:21 <pfps> -1 brings in off-web issues
Peter Patel-Schneider: -1 brings in off-web issues ←
15:54:25 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
15:54:25 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
15:55:02 <Jeremy> mike: we need to deal with this in a best practice rather than a specification, so that many tools use the same vocab
Michael Smith: we need to deal with this in a best practice rather than a specification, so that many tools use the same vocab ←
15:55:17 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
15:55:23 <alanr> ack msmith
Alan Ruttenberg: ack msmith ←
15:55:23 <Zakim> msmith, you wanted to suggest modifying proposal
Zakim IRC Bot: msmith, you wanted to suggest modifying proposal ←
15:55:42 <bmotik> q+ to ask a question to peter
Boris Motik: q+ to ask a question to peter ←
15:56:51 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
15:56:51 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
15:56:58 <Jeremy> alan: we seemed to be blocked ....
Alan Ruttenberg: we seemed to be blocked .... ←
15:57:01 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
15:57:15 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:57:15 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
15:57:17 <Jeremy> pfps: we can definely improve the wording over OWL 1.0
Peter Patel-Schneider: we can definely improve the wording over OWL 1.0 ←
15:57:37 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
15:57:37 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
15:57:46 <Jeremy> boris: would Peter oppose this as a best practice?
Boris Motik: would Peter oppose this as a best practice? ←
15:57:48 <Jeremy> pfps: no
15:58:11 <Jeremy> Alan: I see real benefit in having something in the specification
Alan Ruttenberg: I see real benefit in having something in the specification ←
15:58:22 <Jeremy> q+
q+ ←
15:58:30 <Jeremy> ack bmotik
ack bmotik ←
15:58:31 <Zakim> bmotik, you wanted to ask a question to peter
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik, you wanted to ask a question to peter ←
15:58:34 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
15:58:36 <Zakim> bmotik was not muted, bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik was not muted, bmotik ←
15:58:36 <Jeremy> ack Jeremy
ack Jeremy ←
15:58:40 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
15:58:43 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
15:58:44 <bmotik> q-
Boris Motik: q- ←
15:58:58 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
15:58:58 <Zakim> pfps was not muted, pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was not muted, pfps ←
15:59:17 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
15:59:19 <Jeremy> pfps: I would not oppose some such wording
Peter Patel-Schneider: I would not oppose some such wording ←
15:59:25 <Jeremy> q+
q+ ←
15:59:33 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
15:59:33 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
16:00:18 <alanr> q+ alanr about "caching"
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ alanr about "caching" ←
16:00:19 <bmotik> +1 to Jeremy (more or less)
Boris Motik: +1 to Jeremy (more or less) ←
16:00:39 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
16:01:00 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
16:01:00 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
16:01:06 <alanr> ack bmotik
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bmotik ←
16:01:10 <alanr> ack Jeremy
Alan Ruttenberg: ack Jeremy ←
16:01:14 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
16:01:17 <Jeremy> Jeremy: can we specify that imports is by location; tools may cache, and may need to cache; and we propose a vocab for location mapping
Jeremy Carroll: can we specify that imports is by location; tools may cache, and may need to cache; and we propose a vocab for location mapping ←
16:01:18 <alanr> ack about
Alan Ruttenberg: ack about ←
16:01:24 <alanr> ack "caching"
Alan Ruttenberg: ack "caching" ←
16:01:39 <Jeremy> Alan/Boris: don't use the caching word, since it might not be
Alan/Boris: don't use the caching word, since it might not be ←
16:02:30 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
16:02:30 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
16:02:49 <Jeremy> adjourn ....
adjourn .... ←
16:02:51 <Achille> bye
Achille Fokoue: bye ←
16:02:52 <bmotik> Bye
Boris Motik: Bye ←
16:02:53 <Zakim> -Alan_Ruttenberg
Zakim IRC Bot: -Alan_Ruttenberg ←
16:02:56 <Zakim> -msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←
16:02:57 <Zakim> -Jeremy
Zakim IRC Bot: -Jeremy ←
16:02:59 <Zakim> -Achille
Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille ←
16:03:00 <Zakim> -pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←
16:03:01 <Zakim> -bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←
16:03:03 <Zakim> SW_OWL()10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()10:00AM has ended ←
16:03:04 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.908.582.aaaa, pfps, Vipul_Kashyap, Achille, Alan, Jeremy, bmotik, msmith, Alan_Ruttenberg
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.908.582.aaaa, pfps, Vipul_Kashyap, Achille, Alan, Jeremy, bmotik, msmith, Alan_Ruttenberg ←
16:03:04 <alanr> rrsagent, draft minutes
Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, draft minutes ←
16:03:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/04-owl-minutes.html alanr
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/02/04-owl-minutes.html alanr ←
16:03:25 <alanr> rrsagent, make log world readable
Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, make log world readable ←
16:03:25 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make log world readable', alanr. Try /msg RRSAgent help
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make log world readable', alanr. Try /msg RRSAgent help ←
16:03:28 <alanr> rrsagent, make log world-readable
Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, make log world-readable ←
19:49:51 <alanr> join #dig
(No events recorded for 226 minutes)
Alan Ruttenberg: join #dig ←
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