edit

OWL Working Group

Minutes of 30 January 2008

Present
Achille Fokoue, Bijan Parsia, Boris Motik, Michael Schneider, Rinke Hoekstra, Ivan Herman, Uli Sattler, Ian Horrocks, Unknown Carsten, Peter Patel-Schneider, Michael Smith, Doug Lenat, Evan Wallace, Bernardo Cuenca Grau, Unknown Jim, Zhe Wu, Ratnesh Sahay, Martin Dzbor, Jeff Pan, Alan Ruttenberg, Deborah McGuinness, Sandro Hawke
Scribe
Bernardo Cuenca Grau
IRC Log
Original
Resolutions
  1. approve previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.23/Minutes link
Topics

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17:56:59 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/30-owl-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/30-owl-irc

17:57:04 <Zakim> +??P2

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P2

17:57:11 <Rinke> RRSAgent, make records public

Rinke Hoekstra: RRSAgent, make records public

17:57:11 <bijan> zakim, ??p2 is me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??p2 is me

17:57:11 <Zakim> +bijan; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it

17:57:19 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

17:57:19 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

17:57:30 <Zakim> +??P12

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12

17:57:33 <IanH> Having trouble getting through -- will be with you ASAP

Ian Horrocks: Having trouble getting through -- will be with you ASAP

17:57:35 <bmotik> Zakim, ??P12 is me

Boris Motik: Zakim, ??P12 is me

17:57:35 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it

17:57:39 <Zakim> +??P7

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P7

17:57:41 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

17:57:41 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

17:58:10 <m_schnei> zakim ??P7 is me

Michael Schneider: zakim ??P7 is me

17:58:12 <Zakim> +Rinke

Zakim IRC Bot: +Rinke

17:58:21 <m_schnei> zakim, ??P7 is me

Michael Schneider: zakim, ??P7 is me

17:58:21 <Zakim> +m_schnei; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +m_schnei; got it

17:58:26 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

17:58:26 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

17:58:27 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

17:58:49 <Zakim> +??P14

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P14

17:58:51 <ivan> zakim, drop ivan

Ivan Herman: zakim, drop ivan

17:58:51 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan is being disconnected

17:58:52 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

17:59:00 <uli> zakim, ??P14 is me

Uli Sattler: zakim, ??P14 is me

17:59:00 <Zakim> +uli; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +uli; got it

17:59:03 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip

Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip

17:59:03 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made

17:59:04 <Zakim> +Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan

17:59:16 <Zakim> + +44.186.527.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +44.186.527.aaaa

17:59:27 <IanH> zakim, aaaa is IanH

Ian Horrocks: zakim, aaaa is IanH

17:59:27 <Zakim> +IanH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH; got it

17:59:30 <m_schnei> zakim, mute me

Michael Schneider: zakim, mute me

17:59:30 <Zakim> m_schnei should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: m_schnei should now be muted

17:59:45 <Zakim> +Carsten

Zakim IRC Bot: +Carsten

17:59:52 <Carsten> zakim, mute me

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: zakim, mute me

17:59:52 <Zakim> Carsten should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Carsten should now be muted

18:00:10 <IanH> zakim, who is here

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here

18:00:10 <Zakim> IanH, you need to end that query with '?'

Zakim IRC Bot: IanH, you need to end that query with '?'

18:00:18 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

18:00:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see [IBM], bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), m_schnei (muted), Rinke, Ivan, uli, IanH, Carsten (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see [IBM], bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), m_schnei (muted), Rinke, Ivan, uli, IanH, Carsten (muted)

18:00:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see alanr, DougL, bcuencag, msmith, pfps, RRSAgent, ivan, IanH, Zakim, Achille, bmotik, m_schnei, Rinke, Carsten, MartinD, uli, bijan, sandro, ewallace, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see alanr, DougL, bcuencag, msmith, pfps, RRSAgent, ivan, IanH, Zakim, Achille, bmotik, m_schnei, Rinke, Carsten, MartinD, uli, bijan, sandro, ewallace, trackbot-ng

18:00:24 <Zakim> +??P8

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8

18:00:29 <pfps> zakim, ??P8 is me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, ??P8 is me

18:00:29 <Zakim> +pfps; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it

18:00:32 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro

18:00:42 <Zakim> +msmith

Zakim IRC Bot: +msmith

18:00:43 <Achille> Zakim, IBM is me

Achille Fokoue: Zakim, IBM is me

18:00:44 <Zakim> +Achille; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it

18:00:52 <Zakim> +DougL

Zakim IRC Bot: +DougL

18:01:01 <Zakim> +Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: +Evan_Wallace

18:01:16 <Zakim> +??P25

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P25

18:01:36 <bcuencag> I am scribing

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: I am scribing

18:01:50 <bcuencag> how do I invite the agent?

Bernardo Cuenca Grau: how do I invite the agent?

18:01:53 <Rinke> ScribeNick bcuencag

Rinke Hoekstra: ScribeNick bcuencag

18:01:54 <ivan> scribenick: bcuencag

(Scribe set to Bernardo Cuenca Grau)

18:01:54 <Zakim> +Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe

18:01:56 <Zakim> + +1.518.276.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.276.aabb

18:02:01 <bcuencag> Zakim, ??P25 is me

Zakim, ??P25 is me

18:02:01 <Zakim> +bcuencag; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencag; got it

18:02:15 <bcuencag> So, I just type

So, I just type

18:02:26 <Zakim> +??P11

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P11

18:02:31 <Rinke> who is maintaining the scribe list?

Rinke Hoekstra: who is maintaining the scribe list?

18:02:35 <Zakim> +MartinD

Zakim IRC Bot: +MartinD

18:02:55 <bcuencag> IanH: Agenda amendments?

Ian Horrocks: Agenda amendments?

18:02:59 <hendler> zakim, I am jhendler

James Hendler: zakim, I am jhendler

18:02:59 <Zakim> sorry, hendler, I do not see a party named 'jhendler'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, hendler, I do not see a party named 'jhendler'

18:03:11 <bcuencag> IanH: No amendments, accept previous minutes?

Ian Horrocks: No amendments, accept previous minutes?

18:03:15 <Ratnesh> Zakim, +??P11 is me

Ratnesh Sahay: Zakim, +??P11 is me

18:03:15 <Zakim> sorry, Ratnesh, I do not recognize a party named '+??P11'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, Ratnesh, I do not recognize a party named '+??P11'

18:03:16 <Rinke> +1 to accept, they look fine to me

Rinke Hoekstra: +1 to accept, they look fine to me

18:03:26 <bcuencag> IanH: minutes approved

Ian Horrocks: minutes approved

18:03:30 <MartinD> +1 very comprehensive

Martin Dzbor: +1 very comprehensive

18:03:35 <DougL> thanks

Doug Lenat: thanks

18:03:38 <Ratnesh> Zakim, ??P11 is me

Ratnesh Sahay: Zakim, ??P11 is me

18:03:38 <Zakim> +Ratnesh; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Ratnesh; got it

18:03:46 <IanH> RESOLVED: approve previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.23/Minutes

RESOLVED: approve previous minutes http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.23/Minutes

18:03:50 <DougL> +1

Doug Lenat: +1

18:04:08 <bcuencag> IanH; pending actions

IanH; pending actions

18:04:13 <bcuencag> inaH: action 54

Scribe problem: the name 'inaH' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown inaH: ACTION-54

18:04:15 <ivan> zakim, mute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, mute me

18:04:15 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should now be muted

18:04:26 <bcuencag> IanH: action 54 complete

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-54 complete

18:04:30 <MartinD> zakim, mute me

Martin Dzbor: zakim, mute me

18:04:30 <Zakim> MartinD should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: MartinD should now be muted

18:04:32 <bcuencag> ianH: action 57

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-57

18:04:54 <Carsten> q+

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: q+

18:05:01 <Carsten> zakim, unmute me

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: zakim, unmute me

18:05:01 <Zakim> Carsten should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Carsten should no longer be muted

18:05:03 <bcuencag> IanH: people should speak up if they think an action is not completed

Ian Horrocks: people should speak up if they think an action is not completed

18:05:04 <ivan> ack Carsten

Ivan Herman: ack Carsten

18:05:25 <bcuencag> Carsten: the action requested the definition of OWLPrime

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: the action requested the definition of OWLPrime

18:05:42 <bcuencag> Carsten: not clear what OWL Prime we should discuss

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: not clear what OWL Prime we should discuss

18:05:48 <bcuencag> Zakim, mute me

Zakim, mute me

18:05:48 <Zakim> bcuencag should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencag should now be muted

18:05:55 <Zakim> +JeffP

Zakim IRC Bot: +JeffP

18:06:21 <Zakim> + +1.604.675.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.604.675.aacc

18:06:35 <bcuencag> The document is the starting point for discussing OWL Prime

The document is the starting point for discussing OWL Prime

18:06:52 <alanr> rrsagent, bookmark

Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, bookmark

18:06:52 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/01/30-owl-irc#T18-06-52

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/01/30-owl-irc#T18-06-52

18:07:07 <bcuencag> Carsten: for defining OWL Prime we still need some work

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: for defining OWL Prime we still need some work

18:07:14 <alanr> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here?

18:07:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see Achille, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), m_schnei (muted), Rinke, Ivan (muted), uli (muted), IanH, Carsten, pfps (muted), Sandro, msmith, DougL, Evan_Wallace,

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Achille, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), m_schnei (muted), Rinke, Ivan (muted), uli (muted), IanH, Carsten, pfps (muted), Sandro, msmith, DougL, Evan_Wallace,

18:07:17 <Zakim> ... bcuencag (muted), +1.518.276.aabb, Zhe, Ratnesh, MartinD (muted), JeffP, +1.604.675.aacc

Zakim IRC Bot: ... bcuencag (muted), +1.518.276.aabb, Zhe, Ratnesh, MartinD (muted), JeffP, +1.604.675.aacc

18:07:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see alanr, JeffP, hendler, Zhe, Ratnesh, DougL, bcuencag, msmith, pfps, RRSAgent, ivan, IanH, Zakim, Achille, bmotik, m_schnei, Rinke, Carsten, MartinD, uli, bijan,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see alanr, JeffP, hendler, Zhe, Ratnesh, DougL, bcuencag, msmith, pfps, RRSAgent, ivan, IanH, Zakim, Achille, bmotik, m_schnei, Rinke, Carsten, MartinD, uli, bijan,

18:07:21 <Zakim> ... sandro, ewallace, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: ... sandro, ewallace, trackbot-ng

18:07:29 <alanr> zakim, aacc is me

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, aacc is me

18:07:29 <Zakim> +alanr; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +alanr; got it

18:07:32 <Carsten> zakim, mute me

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Carsten: zakim, mute me

18:07:32 <Zakim> Carsten should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Carsten should now be muted

18:07:38 <Zakim> +dlm

Zakim IRC Bot: +dlm

18:07:40 <bcuencag> InaH: Action 67

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-67

18:07:54 <Rinke> s/InaH/IanH
18:08:05 <bcuencag> IanH: Action 71, Boris completed

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-71, Boris completed

18:08:16 <Zakim> +Sandro.a

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro.a

18:08:20 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

18:08:28 <bcuencag> IanH: Action 74, dealt with by Jeremy

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-74, dealt with by Jeremy

18:08:41 <sandro> Zakim, Sandro.a is Sandro

Sandro Hawke: Zakim, Sandro.a is Sandro

18:08:41 <Zakim> +Sandro; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro; got it

18:08:42 <bcuencag> IanH: Action 90: no agreement for acceptance

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-90: no agreement for acceptance

18:08:53 <bcuencag> IanH: Action 90 is ongoing

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-90 is ongoing

18:08:59 <bijan> Still outstanding

Bijan Parsia: Still outstanding

18:09:00 <bijan> Yes

Bijan Parsia: Yes

18:09:08 <bcuencag> IanH: rich annotations action, any progress?

Ian Horrocks: rich annotations action, any progress?

18:09:10 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

18:09:10 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

18:09:16 <bcuencag> Bijan: yes

Bijan Parsia: yes

18:09:38 <bcuencag> IanH: Action 62

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-62

18:09:40 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

18:09:40 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

18:10:17 <bcuencag> Alan: action not yet completed

Alan Ruttenberg: action not yet completed

18:10:37 <bcuencag> IanH: use case for punning; postponed for next week

Ian Horrocks: use case for punning; postponed for next week

18:10:55 <bcuencag> IanH: Action 72, to be continued

Ian Horrocks: ACTION-72, to be continued

18:11:08 <bcuencag> IanH: UML association; completed

Ian Horrocks: UML association; completed

18:11:42 <ivan> zakim, unmute me

Ivan Herman: zakim, unmute me

18:11:42 <Zakim> Ivan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Ivan should no longer be muted

18:12:08 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call?

18:12:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see Achille, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), m_schnei (muted), Rinke, Ivan, uli (muted), IanH, Carsten (muted), pfps (muted), msmith, DougL, Evan_Wallace, bcuencag

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Achille, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), m_schnei (muted), Rinke, Ivan, uli (muted), IanH, Carsten (muted), pfps (muted), msmith, DougL, Evan_Wallace, bcuencag

18:12:10 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here?

18:12:11 <Zakim> ... (muted), +1.518.276.aabb, Zhe, Ratnesh, MartinD (muted), JeffP, alanr, dlm, Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: ... (muted), +1.518.276.aabb, Zhe, Ratnesh, MartinD (muted), JeffP, alanr, dlm, Sandro

18:12:14 <Zakim> On the phone I see Achille, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), m_schnei (muted), Rinke, Ivan, uli (muted), IanH, Carsten (muted), pfps (muted), msmith, DougL, Evan_Wallace, bcuencag

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Achille, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), m_schnei (muted), Rinke, Ivan, uli (muted), IanH, Carsten (muted), pfps (muted), msmith, DougL, Evan_Wallace, bcuencag

18:12:18 <Zakim> ... (muted), +1.518.276.aabb, Zhe, Ratnesh, MartinD (muted), JeffP, alanr, dlm, Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: ... (muted), +1.518.276.aabb, Zhe, Ratnesh, MartinD (muted), JeffP, alanr, dlm, Sandro

18:12:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see jjc, dlm, alanr, JeffP, hendler, Zhe, Ratnesh, DougL, bcuencag, msmith, pfps, RRSAgent, ivan, IanH, Zakim, Achille, bmotik, m_schnei, Rinke, Carsten, MartinD, uli,

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see jjc, dlm, alanr, JeffP, hendler, Zhe, Ratnesh, DougL, bcuencag, msmith, pfps, RRSAgent, ivan, IanH, Zakim, Achille, bmotik, m_schnei, Rinke, Carsten, MartinD, uli,

18:12:21 <alanr> zakim, aabb is deb

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, aabb is deb

18:12:23 <Zakim> ... bijan, sandro, ewallace, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: ... bijan, sandro, ewallace, trackbot-ng

18:12:24 <Zakim> +deb; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +deb; got it

18:12:38 <hendler> zakim, aabb is me

James Hendler: zakim, aabb is me

18:12:38 <Zakim> sorry, hendler, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'

Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, hendler, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb'

18:12:50 <sandro> Zakim, deb is Jim

Sandro Hawke: Zakim, deb is Jim

18:12:50 <Zakim> +Jim; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Jim; got it

18:13:03 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?

Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call?

18:13:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see Achille, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), m_schnei (muted), Rinke, Ivan, uli (muted), IanH, Carsten (muted), pfps (muted), msmith, DougL, Evan_Wallace, bcuencag

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Achille, bijan (muted), bmotik (muted), m_schnei (muted), Rinke, Ivan, uli (muted), IanH, Carsten (muted), pfps (muted), msmith, DougL, Evan_Wallace, bcuencag

18:13:07 <Zakim> ... (muted), Jim, Zhe, Ratnesh, MartinD (muted), JeffP, alanr, dlm, Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: ... (muted), Jim, Zhe, Ratnesh, MartinD (muted), JeffP, alanr, dlm, Sandro

18:13:09 <bcuencag> IanH: No proposals to resolve issues; more time for discussion

Ian Horrocks: No proposals to resolve issues; more time for discussion

18:13:35 <bcuencag> IanH: fragments and conformance issues

Ian Horrocks: fragments and conformance issues

18:13:42 <uli> yes - but couldn't find anything about "conformance"

Uli Sattler: yes - but couldn't find anything about "conformance"

18:13:52 <sandro> Present: Achille, bijan, bmotik, m_schnei, Rinke, Ivan, uli, IanH, Carsten, pfps, msmith, DougL, Evan_Wallace, bcuencag, Jim, Zhe, Ratnesh, MartinD, JeffP, alanr, dlm, Sandro

Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu

Scribe problem: the name 'Jim' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu

18:14:02 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

18:14:37 <bcuencag> Alan: at the workshop we achieved a consensus

Alan Ruttenberg: at the workshop we achieved a consensus

18:14:46 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:14:53 <Zakim> +Elisa_Kendall

Zakim IRC Bot: +Elisa_Kendall

18:14:54 <alanr> ack alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr

18:14:55 <ivan> ack alanr

Ivan Herman: ack alanr

18:14:55 <IanH> ack alan

Ian Horrocks: ack alan

18:15:00 <bcuencag> Alan: we call fragments to syntax fragments and semantic fragments we called them conformance levels

Alan Ruttenberg: we call fragments to syntax fragments and semantic fragments we called them conformance levels

18:15:01 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:15:29 <bcuencag> IanH: we agree that the email I sent is a reasonable starting point

Ian Horrocks: we agree that the email I sent is a reasonable starting point

18:15:49 <Carsten> zakim, unmute me

Unknown Carsten: zakim, unmute me

18:15:49 <Zakim> Carsten should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Carsten should no longer be muted

18:15:54 <Carsten> q+

Unknown Carsten: q+

18:15:55 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:16:02 <bcuencag> IanH: Do people understand the difference between fragments and conformance levels?

Ian Horrocks: Do people understand the difference between fragments and conformance levels?

18:16:02 <ivan> ack Carsten

Ivan Herman: ack Carsten

18:16:03 <Zakim> +??P28

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P28

18:16:11 <jjc> Zakim, ??P28 is me

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: Zakim, ??P28 is me

18:16:11 <Zakim> +jjc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jjc; got it

18:16:15 <jjc> Zakim, mute me

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: Zakim, mute me

18:16:15 <Zakim> jjc should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc should now be muted

18:16:19 <bcuencag> Carsten: happy with the distinction, but not clear what a conformance level is

Unknown Carsten: happy with the distinction, but not clear what a conformance level is

18:16:25 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:16:38 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:17:09 <hendler> q+

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: q+

18:17:21 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:17:24 <bcuencag> alanr: we could have a reasoner that does incomplete reasoning, but complete up to a certain set of entailments

Alan Ruttenberg: we could have a reasoner that does incomplete reasoning, but complete up to a certain set of entailments

18:17:32 <ivan> ack hendler

Ivan Herman: ack hendler

18:17:45 <bijan> I suspect it's like what's talked about in: http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/research/mercury/information/doc-release/mercury_ref/Semantics.html#Semantics

Bijan Parsia: I suspect it's like what's talked about in: http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/research/mercury/information/doc-release/mercury_ref/Semantics.html#Semantics

18:17:54 <bcuencag> hendler: we have a very tight definition of language fragments

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: we have a very tight definition of language fragments

18:17:55 <Carsten> So they are orthogonal? We can have syntactic fragment X and conformance level Y at the same time?

Unknown Carsten: So they are orthogonal? We can have syntactic fragment X and conformance level Y at the same time?

18:18:06 <bijan> """However, implementations are also allowed to support other operational semantics, which may have non-determinism, so long as they are sound with respect to the declarative semantics, and so long as they meet a minimum level of completeness (they must be at least as complete as the strict commutative semantics, in the sense that every program which terminates for all possible orderings must also terminate in any implementation-defined operational semantics)."""

Bijan Parsia: """However, implementations are also allowed to support other operational semantics, which may have non-determinism, so long as they are sound with respect to the declarative semantics, and so long as they meet a minimum level of completeness (they must be at least as complete as the strict commutative semantics, in the sense that every program which terminates for all possible orderings must also terminate in any implementation-defined operational semantics)."""

18:18:27 <bcuencag> hendler: a fragment could be rather seen as a set of figures that could be supported

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: a fragment could be rather seen as a set of figures that could be supported

18:18:33 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:18:39 <hendler> ack me

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: ack me

18:18:55 <uli> q+

Uli Sattler: q+

18:19:05 <ivan> ack uli

Ivan Herman: ack uli

18:19:23 <bcuencag> Uli: having  conformance levels might be a good idea

Uli Sattler: having conformance levels might be a good idea

18:19:38 <bcuencag> Uli: it gives an idea of what it means to cover a certain construct

Uli Sattler: it gives an idea of what it means to cover a certain construct

18:19:44 <Zhe> q+

Zhe Wu: q+

18:19:51 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:19:55 <bcuencag> Uli: not too difficult to come up with a definition of conformance level

Uli Sattler: not too difficult to come up with a definition of conformance level

18:20:07 <Carsten> I am not sure I got that

Unknown Carsten: I am not sure I got that

18:20:10 <ivan> ack Zhe

Ivan Herman: ack Zhe

18:20:15 <bcuencag> Uli: what it means to be correct or complete for a certain class of queries

Uli Sattler: what it means to be correct or complete for a certain class of queries

18:20:44 <jjc> +1 for test cases

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: +1 for test cases

18:20:50 <bcuencag> Zhe: are we going to provide  a set of test cases and ensure that implementations should cover them?

Zhe Wu: are we going to provide a set of test cases and ensure that implementations should cover them?

18:20:56 <sandro> q+

Sandro Hawke: q+

18:20:59 <bcuencag> Zhe: does this relate to conformance?

Zhe Wu: does this relate to conformance?

18:21:20 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:21:26 <bijan> Note: the w3c generally doesn't do confromance certification

Scribe problem: the name 'Note' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Note: the w3c generally doesn't do confromance certification [ Scribe Assist by Bijan Parsia ]

18:21:29 <bcuencag> IanH: My assumption was that we would not define conformance in terms of test cases, but rather something more precise

Ian Horrocks: My assumption was that we would not define conformance in terms of test cases, but rather something more precise

18:21:54 <msmith> q+ to clarify understanding conformance via test

Michael Smith: q+ to clarify understanding conformance via test

18:21:59 <bijan> +1 to steering clear of WG doing certification

Bijan Parsia: +1 to steering clear of WG doing certification

18:22:03 <IanH> ack sandro

Ian Horrocks: ack sandro

18:22:13 <bcuencag> Sandro: OWL does have test cases

Sandro Hawke: OWL does have test cases

18:22:13 <hendler> +1 to bijan's +1

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: +1 to bijan's +1

18:22:13 <Carsten> q+

Unknown Carsten: q+

18:22:15 <jjc> FYGI see http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-test/#runningConsistencyChecker

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: FYGI see http://www.w3.org/TR/owl-test/#runningConsistencyChecker

18:22:28 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:22:34 <alanr> q+ to say validation is like certification and W3C does validation

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to say validation is like certification and W3C does validation

18:22:40 <hendler> q+ to ask about a specific example

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: q+ to ask about a specific example

18:22:52 <bcuencag> sandro: most standards in industry talk about what a language does

Sandro Hawke: most standards in industry talk about what a language does

18:23:10 <bcuencag> sandro: OWL does not specify what a classifier should do

Sandro Hawke: OWL does not specify what a classifier should do

18:23:24 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:23:26 <hendler> +1 to line up with defining software

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: +1 to line up with defining software

18:23:31 <bcuencag> sandro: we should come up with a way of defining what a software does

Sandro Hawke: we should come up with a way of defining what a software does

18:23:49 <jjc> q+ to mention history

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: q+ to mention history

18:23:53 <bcuencag> sandro: I push for conformance levels

Sandro Hawke: I push for conformance levels

18:23:58 <IanH> ack msmith

Ian Horrocks: ack msmith

18:23:58 <Zakim> msmith, you wanted to clarify understanding conformance via test

Zakim IRC Bot: msmith, you wanted to clarify understanding conformance via test

18:24:38 <bcuencag> who was speaking?

who was speaking?

18:24:38 <IanH> ack Carsten

Ian Horrocks: ack Carsten

18:25:03 <bcuencag> Carsten: conformance level can be related to PD* semantics

Unknown Carsten: conformance level can be related to PD* semantics

18:25:16 <Carsten> I was kicked out, have to redial

Unknown Carsten: I was kicked out, have to redial

18:25:37 <alanr> ack alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr

18:25:37 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to say validation is like certification and W3C does validation

Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to say validation is like certification and W3C does validation

18:25:39 <bcuencag> msmith: I wouldn't be confortable specifying fragments without taking into account the proper semantics

Michael Smith: I wouldn't be confortable specifying fragments without taking into account the proper semantics

18:25:44 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr

18:25:51 <uli> 1) it answers "Y is consistent" if and only if it is indeed consistent

Uli Sattler: 1) it answers "Y is consistent" if and only if it is indeed consistent

18:25:51 <uli> 2) if it finds that "C1 is a subclass of C2", then it is indeed one (but not necessarily the other way round, and

Uli Sattler: 2) if it finds that "C1 is a subclass of C2", then it is indeed one (but not necessarily the other way round, and

18:25:51 <uli> 3) if we ask the reasoner the return all instances of a class C, then only such nstances are returned (but some might be missed)

Uli Sattler: 3) if we ask the reasoner the return all instances of a class C, then only such nstances are returned (but some might be missed)

18:26:07 <bijan> -1 to what alan said

Bijan Parsia: -1 to what alan said

18:26:20 <bijan> q+ to reply to alan

Bijan Parsia: q+ to reply to alan

18:26:21 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:26:24 <bcuencag> alan: W3C does validation, and that could be done using tests

Alan Ruttenberg: W3C does validation, and that could be done using tests

18:26:28 <IanH> ack hendler

Ian Horrocks: ack hendler

18:26:28 <Zakim> hendler, you wanted to ask about a specific example

Zakim IRC Bot: hendler, you wanted to ask about a specific example

18:26:32 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:26:33 <Zakim> +Carsten.a

Zakim IRC Bot: +Carsten.a

18:26:48 <bcuencag> hendler: take sameAs

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: take sameAs

18:26:55 <Zakim> -Carsten

Zakim IRC Bot: -Carsten

18:27:04 <bcuencag> hendler: has a precise semantics and an RDF match

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: has a precise semantics and an RDF match

18:27:18 <bmotik> To slightly refine Uli's idea, we probably need to look at both the syntactic level, and at the semantic level.

Boris Motik: To slightly refine Uli's idea, we probably need to look at both the syntactic level, and at the semantic level.

18:27:28 <bmotik> You can have conformance first at the syntactic level.

Boris Motik: You can have conformance first at the syntactic level.

18:27:44 <bcuencag> hendler: we should tell the implementors what features they should implement

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: we should tell the implementors what features they should implement

18:27:52 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:27:56 <bmotik> Once you say what kind of syntax you accept, the semantic conformance level (a la Uli) would tell you what you are supposed to derive.

Boris Motik: Once you say what kind of syntax you accept, the semantic conformance level (a la Uli) would tell you what you are supposed to derive.

18:28:11 <bcuencag> hendler: I'd like a fragment to be defined as a set of language features

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: I'd like a fragment to be defined as a set of language features

18:28:39 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

18:28:40 <bcuencag> hendler: one could implement OWL DL features but not following the DL semantics

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: one could implement OWL DL features but not following the DL semantics

18:28:43 <msmith> concerned uli's example is incomplete in IRC log, will retype first line

Michael Smith: concerned uli's example is incomplete in IRC log, will retype first line

18:28:51 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:28:55 <msmith> here it is: E.g., we could say that a reasoner that is X-conformant behaves as follows when it handles an OWLPrime ontology Y:

Michael Smith: here it is: E.g., we could say that a reasoner that is X-conformant behaves as follows when it handles an OWLPrime ontology Y:

18:29:00 <jjc> ack jjc

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: ack jjc

18:29:01 <Zakim> jjc, you wanted to mention history

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc, you wanted to mention history

18:29:16 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

18:29:16 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

18:29:37 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:29:56 <jjc> sorry skip me

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: sorry skip me

18:30:00 <bcuencag> bijan: I do not know what validation is

Bijan Parsia: I do not know what validation is

18:30:01 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/

Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/

18:30:22 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/check?uri=referer

Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/check?uri=referer

18:30:31 <ewallace> +q

Evan Wallace: +q

18:30:45 <ewallace> q-

Evan Wallace: q-

18:30:46 <bcuencag> bijan: defining a set of test cases would not be a suitable kind of validation

Bijan Parsia: defining a set of test cases would not be a suitable kind of validation

18:30:54 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

18:30:54 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

18:30:54 <ivan> ack bijan

Ivan Herman: ack bijan

18:30:55 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to reply to alan

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to reply to alan

18:31:19 <alanr> jjc: Yes redial

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: Yes redial [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ]

18:31:27 <Zakim> -jjc

Zakim IRC Bot: -jjc

18:31:43 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:32:01 <bcuencag> Zhe: I have discussed about EL++ and Dl-Lite and DLP

Zhe Wu: I have discussed about EL++ and Dl-Lite and DLP

18:32:21 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:32:27 <bcuencag> Zhe: DLP fits better with rules than EL++ or DL Lite

Zhe Wu: DLP fits better with rules than EL++ or DL Lite

18:32:38 <bcuencag> Zhe: I like DLP better

Zhe Wu: I like DLP better

18:33:07 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:33:09 <bcuencag> Zhe: Either PD* semantics or DLP would work in principle

Zhe Wu: Either PD* semantics or DLP would work in principle

18:33:10 <Carsten> could you say what "work" means?

Unknown Carsten: could you say what "work" means?

18:33:25 <hendler> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/OracleOwlPrime

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/OracleOwlPrime

18:33:31 <Carsten> q+

Unknown Carsten: q+

18:33:40 <hendler> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/OracleOwlPrime#Definition_of_OWLPrime_.28RDFS_3.0.29

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/OracleOwlPrime#Definition_of_OWLPrime_.28RDFS_3.0.29

18:33:42 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:33:46 <bmotik> q+ to answer Ian's question

Boris Motik: q+ to answer Ian's question

18:33:59 <hendler> q+

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: q+

18:34:03 <IanH> ack Carsten

Ian Horrocks: ack Carsten

18:34:53 <bcuencag> Carsten: I can see two conditions relevant for a fragment: they should provide useful expressivity, and they should be based in some principle that guides the design, such as tractability of subsumption or horness

Unknown Carsten: I can see two conditions relevant for a fragment: they should provide useful expressivity, and they should be based in some principle that guides the design, such as tractability of subsumption or horness

18:34:57 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:35:08 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

18:35:08 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

18:35:10 <bcuencag> Carsten: What would be the guiding design principle of OWL Prime

Unknown Carsten: What would be the guiding design principle of OWL Prime

18:35:19 <alanr> reducibility to implementation in rule bases with large numbers of instances?

Alan Ruttenberg: reducibility to implementation in rule bases with large numbers of instances?

18:35:21 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

18:35:21 <Zakim> bmotik, you wanted to answer Ian's question

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik, you wanted to answer Ian's question

18:35:24 <hendler> -1 to the way Carsten sees defining things, as they don't apply well to the startup/uindustrial world

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: -1 to the way Carsten sees defining things, as they don't apply well to the startup/uindustrial world

18:35:45 <bcuencag> bmotik: DLP allows to reason about the domain that consists only of the resources that one has in the KB

Boris Motik: DLP allows to reason about the domain that consists only of the resources that one has in the KB

18:36:01 <bcuencag> bmotik: no need to generate anonymous individuals

Boris Motik: no need to generate anonymous individuals

18:36:11 <Carsten> ok, fine with me. Would be nice to learn whether Zhe agrees?!

Unknown Carsten: ok, fine with me. Would be nice to learn whether Zhe agrees?!

18:36:24 <bcuencag> bmotik: OWL Prime is pretty close to DLP

Boris Motik: OWL Prime is pretty close to DLP

18:36:40 <Zhe> q+

Zhe Wu: q+

18:36:50 <Carsten> What is the complexity of DLP?

Unknown Carsten: What is the complexity of DLP?

18:36:55 <bcuencag> bmotik: the guiding principle behind DLP is similar to OWL Prime's goals of using rules for reasoning

Boris Motik: the guiding principle behind DLP is similar to OWL Prime's goals of using rules for reasoning

18:37:10 <bcuencag> bmotik: wouldn't be difficult to align DLP and OWL Prime

Boris Motik: wouldn't be difficult to align DLP and OWL Prime

18:37:14 <Zakim> +??P37

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P37

18:37:22 <jjc> Zakim, ??P37 is me

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: Zakim, ??P37 is me

18:37:25 <Zakim> +jjc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jjc; got it

18:37:26 <alanr> q+ to say "what the things in the database" may be a source of discussion. and ask: Things in the databases can be classes too?

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to say "what the things in the database" may be a source of discussion. and ask: Things in the databases can be classes too?

18:37:29 <jjc> Zakim, mute me

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: Zakim, mute me

18:37:29 <Zakim> jjc should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc should now be muted

18:37:38 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

18:37:38 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

18:37:44 <bcuencag> bmotik: OWL prime could be seen as an RDF-oriented version of DLP

Boris Motik: OWL prime could be seen as an RDF-oriented version of DLP

18:37:55 <ivan> ack Zhe

Ivan Herman: ack Zhe

18:38:02 <bcuencag> Zhe: I agree with Boris

Zhe Wu: I agree with Boris

18:38:18 <bcuencag> Zhe: should be feasible to map OWL Prime to DLP

Zhe Wu: should be feasible to map OWL Prime to DLP

18:38:34 <bcuencag> Zhe: the criteria in Oracle's mind is to meet the requirements of the users

Zhe Wu: the criteria in Oracle's mind is to meet the requirements of the users

18:39:00 <bcuencag> Zhe: it has to allow an efficient implementation in the context of enterprise applications

Zhe Wu: it has to allow an efficient implementation in the context of enterprise applications

18:39:13 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:39:19 <bcuencag> Zhe: we like rule sin Oracle because they can be implemented efficiently using DBs

Zhe Wu: we like rule sin Oracle because they can be implemented efficiently using DBs

18:39:42 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:39:57 <bcuencag> agreed

agreed

18:40:03 <pfps> no

Peter Patel-Schneider: no

18:40:13 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1

18:40:19 <bijan> Uhm....is this meant to bind us by NDA?

Bijan Parsia: Uhm....is this meant to bind us by NDA?

18:40:39 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me

18:40:41 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted

18:40:42 <bijan> But...if I were to blog it?

Bijan Parsia: But...if I were to blog it?

18:40:46 <DougL> I'd rather you don't tell us anything proprietary, but other than that, okay.

Doug Lenat: I'd rather you don't tell us anything proprietary, but other than that, okay.

18:41:18 <bcuencag> pfps: it puts me in an uncomfortable situation

Peter Patel-Schneider: it puts me in an uncomfortable situation

18:41:19 <DougL> Why not just describe the type (e.g., a large medical center....)

Doug Lenat: Why not just describe the type (e.g., a large medical center....)

18:41:37 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+

18:41:41 <DougL> Just don't mention the names.

Doug Lenat: Just don't mention the names.

18:41:43 <alanr> q- alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: q- alanr

18:42:09 <bijan> I don't need the names as long as there's concrete details

Bijan Parsia: I don't need the names as long as there's concrete details

18:42:27 <bcuencag> alan: the names should be mentioned but the members of the WG should not mention them publicly

Alan Ruttenberg: the names should be mentioned but the members of the WG should not mention them publicly

18:42:48 <DougL> Exactly.

Doug Lenat: Exactly.

18:43:02 <DougL> (Meaning I agree with Peter)

Doug Lenat: (Meaning I agree with Peter)

18:43:03 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me

18:43:03 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted

18:43:08 <ewallace> I understand Peter's concern!

Evan Wallace: I understand Peter's concern!

18:43:12 <bcuencag> ok, should I mention the names or not?

ok, should I mention the names or not?

18:43:15 <bcuencag> ok

ok

18:43:46 <bcuencag> hendler: tarlick, radar networks and meta Web have given me details about their specifiic needs

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: garlik, radar networks and meta Web have given me details about their specifiic needs

18:44:02 <ivan> s/tarlick/garlik/
18:44:10 <bcuencag> hendler: they think that OWL Prime meets their use cases

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: they think that OWL Prime meets their use cases

18:44:27 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:44:36 <IanH> ack handler

Ian Horrocks: ack handler

18:44:43 <IanH> ack hendler

Ian Horrocks: ack hendler

18:44:45 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

18:44:49 <alanr> q+ alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ alanr

18:44:55 <bcuencag> hendler: these companiens would rather not comment in public

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: these companiens would rather not comment in public

18:45:21 <bcuencag> hendler: we should take into account the needs of those companies

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: we should take into account the needs of those companies

18:45:22 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:45:30 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr

18:45:44 <bcuencag> alan: could you say something more about OWL prime meeting their needs?

Alan Ruttenberg: could you say something more about OWL prime meeting their needs?

18:45:55 <bcuencag> alan: is it about syntax?

Alan Ruttenberg: is it about syntax?

18:46:05 <bcuencag> alan: do they care about completeness?

Alan Ruttenberg: do they care about completeness?

18:46:14 <bcuencag> hendler: I cannot answer

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: I cannot answer

18:46:53 <bcuencag> alan: the problem is that I do not know what they mean.

Alan Ruttenberg: the problem is that I do not know what they mean.

18:47:11 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

18:47:11 <bcuencag> IanH: no need to go any further

Ian Horrocks: no need to go any further

18:47:32 <bcuencag> hendler: they prefer scaling rather than completeness

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: they prefer scaling rather than completeness

18:47:36 <uli> q+

Uli Sattler: q+

18:47:41 <alanr> thanks Jim, that helps

Alan Ruttenberg: thanks Jim, that helps

18:47:49 <uli> q-

Uli Sattler: q-

18:48:04 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:48:11 <bcuencag> IanH: we need to agree what to do next with OWL Prime

Ian Horrocks: we need to agree what to do next with OWL Prime

18:48:22 <Zhe> q+

Zhe Wu: q+

18:48:25 <bcuencag> IanH: what are the next steps?

Ian Horrocks: what are the next steps?

18:48:29 <ivan> ack Zhe

Ivan Herman: ack Zhe

18:48:49 <bcuencag> Zhe: we should come up with a set of DLP rules that characterize OWL Prime

Zhe Wu: we should come up with a set of DLP rules that characterize OWL Prime

18:49:10 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

18:49:10 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

18:49:10 <bcuencag> Zhe: these rules would define the semantics

Zhe Wu: these rules would define the semantics

18:49:13 <Carsten> Is OWL Prime a fragment then or a conformance level?

Unknown Carsten: Is OWL Prime a fragment then or a conformance level?

18:49:28 <bcuencag> bmotik: I agree we should come up with a rule set

Boris Motik: I agree we should come up with a rule set

18:49:32 <Carsten> Or both?

Unknown Carsten: Or both?

18:49:41 <bcuencag> bmotik: assume an EL ontology which is DLP

Boris Motik: assume an EL ontology which is DLP

18:49:52 <bcuencag> bmotik: you turn it into RDF

Boris Motik: you turn it into RDF

18:50:00 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q?

18:50:03 <hendler> q+

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: q+

18:50:05 <jjc> q+ to note, silently, I could take an action to do an HP review of the current page .... about two weeks (but it really depends on when Zhe would like such a review)

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Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: q+ to note, silently, I could take an action to do an HP review of the current page .... about two weeks (but it really depends on when Zhe would like such a review)

18:50:09 <bcuencag> bmotik: and then run the rules

Boris Motik: and then run the rules

18:50:11 <alanr> q+ to mention that this seems to legislate non-entailments

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to mention that this seems to legislate non-entailments

18:50:13 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

18:50:13 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

18:50:16 <ivan> ack hendler

Ivan Herman: ack hendler

18:50:27 <bcuencag> bmotik: and obtain the same answers

Boris Motik: and obtain the same answers

18:50:27 <JeffP> Does Zhe agree that OWL Prime is simply DLP?

Jeff Pan: Does Zhe agree that OWL Prime is simply DLP?

18:51:02 <alanr> q+ to ask Zhe if classes can be antecedents/consequents in OWL Prime

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask Zhe if classes can be antecedents/consequents in OWL Prime

18:51:03 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:51:07 <uli> Jeff, I think OWLPrime is more Full-ish than DLP?!

Uli Sattler: Jeff, I think OWLPrime is more Full-ish than DLP?!

18:51:26 <hendler> +1 to Uli

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Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: +1 to Uli

18:51:32 <bcuencag> me  neither

me neither

18:51:43 <alanr> my question goes to this

Alan Ruttenberg: my question goes to this

18:51:48 <bcuencag> hendler: we may have both fragments and conformance levels

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: we may have both fragments and conformance levels

18:52:15 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

18:52:22 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:52:37 <bcuencag> hendler: there's technical issues that differentiate a full subset from a DLP subset

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: there's technical issues that differentiate a full subset from a DLP subset

18:53:56 <ivan> ack jjc

Ivan Herman: ack jjc

18:53:58 <Zakim> jjc, you wanted to note, silently, I could take an action to do an HP review of the current page .... about two weeks (but it really depends on when Zhe would like such a review)

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc, you wanted to note, silently, I could take an action to do an HP review of the current page .... about two weeks (but it really depends on when Zhe would like such a review)

18:54:01 <bcuencag> hendler: define a fragment as a subset of a vocabulary and the semantics is the OWL Full semantics

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Unknown hendler: define a fragment as a subset of a vocabulary and the semantics is the OWL Full semantics

18:54:10 <jjc> Please read out the abvove

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Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: Please read out the abvove

18:54:37 <jjc> yes it's feaisble

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Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: yes it's feaisble

18:54:40 <hendler> but I think there could also be a DL version <scribe assist>

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Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: but I think there could also be a DL version <scribe assist>

18:54:52 <jjc> I would ask HP colleagues, and it's costly

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Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: I would ask HP colleagues, and it's costly

18:54:55 <jjc> to get a review

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Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: to get a review

18:54:58 <bcuencag> hendler: but I think there could also be a DL version

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: but I think there could also be a DL version

18:54:58 <msmith> review what's there now or what is to be specified?

Michael Smith: review what's there now or what is to be specified?

18:55:03 <jjc> OWL Prime

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: OWL Prime

18:55:15 <jjc> Let's do it

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Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: Let's do it

18:55:21 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:55:24 <jjc> I'll write an action

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: I'll write an action

18:55:27 <ivan> ack alanr

Ivan Herman: ack alanr

18:55:27 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to mention that this seems to legislate non-entailments and to ask Zhe if classes can be antecedents/consequents in OWL Prime

Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to mention that this seems to legislate non-entailments and to ask Zhe if classes can be antecedents/consequents in OWL Prime

18:55:31 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr

18:55:43 <jjc> ACTION: jeremy to arrange HP review of OWL Prime page

ACTION: jeremy to arrange HP review of OWL Prime page

18:55:43 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-76 - Arrange HP review of OWL Prime page [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2008-02-06].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-76 - Arrange HP review of OWL Prime page [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2008-02-06].

18:56:21 <bcuencag> alan: I want to meke clear what is the treatment of non-answers

Alan Ruttenberg: I want to meke clear what is the treatment of non-answers

18:56:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:57:03 <bcuencag> Alan:I understand that rule systems do not put constraints in the use of classes in the place of instances and vice-versa

Alan Ruttenberg: I understand that rule systems do not put constraints in the use of classes in the place of instances and vice-versa

18:57:13 <msmith> q+ to clarify ACTION-76

Michael Smith: q+ to clarify ACTION-76

18:57:13 <bcuencag> alanr: this does not seem to be in DLP

Alan Ruttenberg: this does not seem to be in DLP

18:57:14 <hendler> q+ to reply to Alan

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: q+ to reply to Alan

18:57:28 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

18:57:28 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

18:57:28 <uli> Boris, but this would be a DLP different from the current one

Uli Sattler: Boris, but this would be a DLP different from the current one

18:57:36 <ivan> ack bmotik

Ivan Herman: ack bmotik

18:58:02 <bcuencag> bmotik: I think that DLP and OWL prime could really be made equivalent

Boris Motik: I think that DLP and OWL prime could really be made equivalent

18:59:00 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

18:59:04 <ivan> ack msmith

Ivan Herman: ack msmith

18:59:04 <Zakim> msmith, you wanted to clarify ACTION-76

Zakim IRC Bot: msmith, you wanted to clarify ACTION-76

18:59:05 <bmotik> zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: zakim, mute me

18:59:07 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

18:59:07 <bcuencag> bmotik: OWL Prime is OWL Full like, and we should generate some restrictions

Boris Motik: OWL Prime is OWL Full like, and we should generate some restrictions

18:59:20 <uli> Boris, I understand you as volunteering to come up with a unified "rule-based OWL"?

Uli Sattler: Boris, I understand you as volunteering to come up with a unified "rule-based OWL"?

18:59:24 <Zhe> q+

Zhe Wu: q+

18:59:54 <jjc> I am happy to wait

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: I am happy to wait

18:59:56 <hendler> -0 to having to agree to a closed world for OWL Prime - I cannot live with this

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Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: -0 to having to agree to a closed world for OWL Prime - I cannot live with this

19:00:21 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:00:23 <msmith> ok, that's fine

Michael Smith: ok, that's fine

19:00:24 <jjc> OK

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Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: OK

19:00:24 <bcuencag> msmith: HP should better spend resources later on, when the spec is more advanced

Michael Smith: HP should better spend resources later on, when the spec is more advanced

19:00:25 <ivan> ack hendler

Ivan Herman: ack hendler

19:00:25 <Zakim> hendler, you wanted to reply to Alan

Zakim IRC Bot: hendler, you wanted to reply to Alan

19:00:51 <bijan> I'll notes that there isn't a closed world in boris's proposal (it's not non-monotonic)

Bijan Parsia: I'll notes that there isn't a closed world in boris's proposal (it's not non-monotonic)

19:00:58 <bcuencag> hendler: I don't want to move to closed-world semantics

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Unknown hendler: I don't want to move to closed-world semantics

19:01:02 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:01:03 <bmotik> q+ to comment on closed-world semantics

Boris Motik: q+ to comment on closed-world semantics

19:01:33 <uli> Jim, this is "known domain assumption" rather than "closed domain"

Uli Sattler: Jim, this is "known domain assumption" rather than "closed domain"

19:02:03 <bcuencag> ianH: the fragment as specified is decidable

Ian Horrocks: the fragment as specified is decidable

19:02:29 <bcuencag> hendler: I don't mind if there is a DL version of the fragment, but there should be an OWl prime full

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Unknown hendler: I don't mind if there is a DL version of the fragment, but there should be an OWl prime full

19:02:42 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:02:42 <ivan> ack Zhe

Ivan Herman: ack Zhe

19:02:43 <bcuencag> hendler: I am fine with OWL Prime DL being DLP

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Unknown hendler: I am fine with OWL Prime DL being DLP

19:03:04 <hendler> as long as there is also a Full version

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Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: as long as there is also a Full version

19:03:05 <uli> ...but only primitive classes!

Uli Sattler: ...but only primitive classes!

19:03:15 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:03:17 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

19:03:17 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

19:03:22 <uli> ...I understand that you can't even have them in the premis

Uli Sattler: ...I understand that you can't even have them in the premis

19:03:26 <ivan> ack bmotik

Ivan Herman: ack bmotik

19:03:26 <Zakim> bmotik, you wanted to comment on closed-world semantics

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik, you wanted to comment on closed-world semantics

19:03:26 <bcuencag> hendler: as long as there is also a Full version

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: as long as there is also a Full version

19:03:31 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:03:50 <bcuencag> bmotik: ther eis no CWA in DLP, nor there is a domain closure assumption

Boris Motik: ther eis no CWA in DLP, nor there is a domain closure assumption

19:03:52 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:04:04 <bijan> +1 to boris

Bijan Parsia: +1 to boris

19:04:05 <uli> alanr, this is what I am reading the OWLPrime description

Uli Sattler: alanr, this is what I am reading the OWLPrime description

19:04:09 <bcuencag> bmotik: what happens is that the use of existentials in the language is limited

Boris Motik: what happens is that the use of existentials in the language is limited

19:04:12 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

19:04:12 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

19:04:38 <hendler> I misunderstood what Boris previously said, I am fine with the above - i.e. that the language doesn't allow certain things to happen (expressivity wise)

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: I misunderstood what Boris previously said, I am fine with the above - i.e. that the language doesn't allow certain things to happen (expressivity wise)

19:05:15 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:05:21 <bcuencag> ianH: it specifies a minimum but not an upper bound

Ian Horrocks: it specifies a minimum but not an upper bound

19:05:26 <alanr> q+ alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ alanr

19:05:30 <ivan> ack alanr

Ivan Herman: ack alanr

19:05:36 <uli> I just sent out my conformance level examples per email, and it is like Ian just said

Uli Sattler: I just sent out my conformance level examples per email, and it is like Ian just said

19:05:44 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:05:55 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

19:05:55 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

19:06:19 <hendler> q+ to ask rule-based systems typically have "axiomatic" (as opposed to model theoretic) semantics - is that  where we are going

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Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: q+ to ask rule-based systems typically have "axiomatic" (as opposed to model theoretic) semantics - is that where we are going

19:06:28 <bcuencag> bmotik: for certain kinds of queries the answers between DLp and OWLPrime (the rdf version of DLP), the answers should be the same

Boris Motik: for certain kinds of queries the answers between DLp and OWLPrime (the rdf version of DLP), the answers should be the same

19:06:53 <bcuencag> bmotik: I am talking about entailments and non-entailments

Boris Motik: I am talking about entailments and non-entailments

19:07:05 <uli> say again, alanr

Uli Sattler: say again, alanr

19:07:37 <bmotik> q+ to elaborate on types of queries

Boris Motik: q+ to elaborate on types of queries

19:07:46 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:07:56 <ivan> ack hendler

Ivan Herman: ack hendler

19:07:56 <Zakim> hendler, you wanted to ask rule-based systems typically have "axiomatic" (as opposed to model theoretic) semantics - is that  where we are going

Zakim IRC Bot: hendler, you wanted to ask rule-based systems typically have "axiomatic" (as opposed to model theoretic) semantics - is that where we are going

19:08:30 <bcuencag> hendler: most languages I have encountered are defined in terms of rules

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: most languages I have encountered are defined in terms of rules

19:08:43 <bcuencag> hendler: but this is not the case in this WG

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: but this is not the case in this WG

19:08:54 <sandro> isnt' a Proof-Theoretic Semantics?

Sandro Hawke: isnt' a Proof-Theoretic Semantics?

19:08:58 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:09:01 <bijan> sandro, no

Bijan Parsia: sandro, no

19:09:02 <uli> Jim, one of the troubles is that these axioms might interact...

Uli Sattler: Jim, one of the troubles is that these axioms might interact...

19:09:12 <alanr> uli: Saying fullish dlp answers at least set of queries dl dlp. This actually sets a pretty high bar for conformance (or at least I worry that it might)

Uli Sattler: Saying fullish dlp answers at least set of queries dl dlp. This actually sets a pretty high bar for conformance (or at least I worry that it might) [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ]

19:09:18 <uli> and then it is difficult to see when we can or should stop

Uli Sattler: and then it is difficult to see when we can or should stop

19:09:37 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:10:02 <uli> alanr, I don't think that anybody is suggesting any conformance level for OWLPrime here

Uli Sattler: alanr, I don't think that anybody is suggesting any conformance level for OWLPrime here

19:10:11 <alanr> not advocating for it, just making sure that we are all on the same page - worried that zhe or hendler might not see consequences immediately and then balk later

Alan Ruttenberg: not advocating for it, just making sure that we are all on the same page - worried that zhe or hendler might not see consequences immediately and then balk later

19:10:15 <bcuencag> hendler: we should have an axiomatic semantics

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: we should have an axiomatic semantics

19:10:21 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:10:23 <Carsten> I didn't get that.

Unknown Carsten: I didn't get that.

19:10:23 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

19:10:23 <Zakim> bmotik was not muted, bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik was not muted, bmotik

19:10:26 <ivan> ack bmotik

Ivan Herman: ack bmotik

19:10:26 <Zakim> bmotik, you wanted to elaborate on types of queries

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik, you wanted to elaborate on types of queries

19:11:31 <bcuencag> bmotik: DLs are closer to FOL in that nothing is reified

Boris Motik: DLs are closer to FOL in that nothing is reified

19:11:40 <bcuencag> bmotik: so the theory is the ontology

Boris Motik: so the theory is the ontology

19:11:42 <hendler> +1 I think

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: +1 I think

19:11:53 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:12:06 <bcuencag> bmotik: in the case of OWL Full and OWL Prime, you ahve a set of axioms that reify your theory

Boris Motik: in the case of OWL Full and OWL Prime, you ahve a set of axioms that reify your theory

19:12:29 <uli> Boris, I haven't seen an axiomatic semantics for OWL DL...did you?

Uli Sattler: Boris, I haven't seen an axiomatic semantics for OWL DL...did you?

19:13:15 <bcuencag> bmotik: the equivalence between DLP and OWL Prime could be established

Boris Motik: the equivalence between DLP and OWL Prime could be established

19:13:15 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:13:24 <bcuencag> bmotik: for a certain kind of entailments

Boris Motik: for a certain kind of entailments

19:13:56 <DougL> The speakers can edit the minutes.

Doug Lenat: The speakers can edit the minutes.

19:13:57 <bcuencag> bmotik: those that make sense in DLs

Boris Motik: those that make sense in DLs

19:13:59 <bmotik> Uli, the axiomatic semantics of OWL DL can't be given in terms of a set of axioms that is *fixed* for all ontolgoies.

Boris Motik: Uli, the axiomatic semantics of OWL DL can't be given in terms of a set of axioms that is *fixed* for all ontolgoies.

19:14:09 <bmotik> These axioms in OWL DL would be second-order.

Boris Motik: These axioms in OWL DL would be second-order.

19:14:21 <bmotik> In OWL DL, the theory is actually the ontology.

Boris Motik: In OWL DL, the theory is actually the ontology.

19:14:22 <alanr> +1 to Uli - Boris, possible to do that

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to Uli - Boris, possible to do that

19:14:32 <uli> Boris, I understand, but I heard you saying that there was such a semantics

Uli Sattler: Boris, I understand, but I heard you saying that there was such a semantics

19:15:04 <bcuencag> ok

ok

19:15:36 <Carsten> Other fragments for example :-)

Unknown Carsten: Other fragments for example :-)

19:15:49 <bcuencag> IanH: next item in the agenda

Ian Horrocks: next item in the agenda

19:15:58 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

19:15:58 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

19:16:25 <Carsten> zakim, mute me

Unknown Carsten: zakim, mute me

19:16:25 <Zakim> Carsten.a should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: Carsten.a should now be muted

19:16:47 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:17:00 <DougL> congrats

Doug Lenat: congrats

19:17:02 <bmotik> Thanks!

Boris Motik: Thanks!

19:17:04 <ivan> wow!

Ivan Herman: wow!

19:17:05 <alanr> claps!!!

Alan Ruttenberg: claps!!!

19:17:07 <JeffP> well done!

Jeff Pan: well done!

19:17:08 <Zakim> -Jim

Zakim IRC Bot: -Jim

19:17:09 <Zhe> congrats!

Zhe Wu: congrats!

19:17:11 <Achille> congrats!

Achille Fokoue: congrats!

19:17:13 <bijan> Congrats

Bijan Parsia: Congrats

19:17:13 <uli> IanH, we have been spending a looong time on one fragment - not on any of the others...

Uli Sattler: IanH, we have been spending a looong time on one fragment - not on any of the others...

19:17:16 <bcuencag> hendler: Boris won an award, congrats

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: Boris won an award, congrats

19:17:19 <uli> hurray boris!

Uli Sattler: hurray boris!

19:17:27 <Ratnesh> congrats!

Ratnesh Sahay: congrats!

19:17:28 <Carsten> great, boris!

Unknown Carsten: great, boris!

19:17:46 <bcuencag> IanH: issue 92

Ian Horrocks: ISSUE-92

19:18:28 <bmotik> ACTION: bmotik to Send an e-mail to the list with ideas on how to bridge DLP and OWL Prime

ACTION: bmotik to Send an e-mail to the list with ideas on how to bridge DLP and OWL Prime

19:18:28 <trackbot-ng> Sorry, couldn't find user - bmotik

Trackbot IRC Bot: Sorry, couldn't find user - bmotik

19:18:31 <bcuencag> IanH: resolved

Ian Horrocks: resolved

19:18:34 <pfps> +1

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1

19:18:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:18:43 <bmotik> ACTION: bmotik2 to Send an e-mail to the list with ideas on how to bridge DLP and OWL Prime

ACTION: bmotik2 to Send an e-mail to the list with ideas on how to bridge DLP and OWL Prime

19:18:43 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-77 - Send an e-mail to the list with ideas on how to bridge DLP and OWL Prime [on Boris Motik - due 2008-02-06].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-77 - Send an e-mail to the list with ideas on how to bridge DLP and OWL Prime [on Boris Motik - due 2008-02-06].

19:18:47 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1

19:18:58 <bcuencag> IanH: issue 16

Ian Horrocks: ISSUE-16

19:19:13 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:19:18 <bcuencag> IanH: entity annotations? should we have annotations in entity declarations?

Ian Horrocks: entity annotations? should we have annotations in entity declarations?

19:19:22 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

19:19:25 <dlm> yes - i liked peters 2a proposal

Deborah McGuinness: yes - i liked peters 2a proposal

19:19:28 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me

19:19:28 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted

19:19:35 <Zakim> -MartinD

Zakim IRC Bot: -MartinD

19:19:36 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:19:37 <ivan> ack pfps

Ivan Herman: ack pfps

19:19:45 <jjc> annotations are not interesting! but they are a duty ....

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: annotations are not interesting! but they are a duty ....

19:20:23 <bcuencag> pfps: I proposed to decrease the kinds of annotations allowed

Peter Patel-Schneider: I proposed to decrease the kinds of annotations allowed

19:20:28 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+

19:20:37 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

19:20:37 <Zakim> bmotik was already muted, bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik was already muted, bmotik

19:20:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:20:55 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me

19:20:55 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted

19:20:58 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me

19:20:58 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted

19:21:01 <IanH> ack bmotik

Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik

19:21:04 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:21:11 <bcuencag> bmotik: there is another asymmetry

Boris Motik: there is another asymmetry

19:21:24 <bcuencag> bmotik: annotations of axioms are not axioms themselves

Boris Motik: annotations of axioms are not axioms themselves

19:21:39 <bcuencag> bmotik: this causes an asymmetry

Boris Motik: this causes an asymmetry

19:21:50 <pfps> this is roughly my 2a proposal

Peter Patel-Schneider: this is roughly my 2a proposal

19:21:55 <bcuencag> bmotik: Matthew suggested to make all annotations axioms

Boris Motik: Matthew suggested to make all annotations axioms

19:22:15 <bijan> It could be a bit tricky, but it could be simple...would have to work out the details to know which

Bijan Parsia: It could be a bit tricky, but it could be simple...would have to work out the details to know which

19:22:16 <Rinke> looks like it to me as well

Rinke Hoekstra: looks like it to me as well

19:22:17 <uli> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0106.html

Uli Sattler: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0106.html

19:22:49 <bcuencag> alan: do annotations become domain elements?

Alan Ruttenberg: do annotations become domain elements?

19:22:50 <bijan> That's orthoganal I think

Bijan Parsia: That's orthoganal I think

19:22:59 <bcuencag> bmotik: all this is purely syntactic

Boris Motik: all this is purely syntactic

19:23:18 <pfps> ... and annotations

Peter Patel-Schneider: ... and annotations

19:23:20 <bijan> No

Bijan Parsia: No

19:23:21 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:23:22 <bcuencag> bmotik: we could put annotations on ontologies, entities and axioms

Boris Motik: we could put annotations on ontologies, entities and axioms

19:23:24 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

19:23:24 <dlm> and i think you can put annotations on annotations right?

Deborah McGuinness: and i think you can put annotations on annotations right?

19:23:33 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

19:23:33 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan

19:23:43 <uli> yes, dlm

Uli Sattler: yes, dlm

19:23:51 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me

19:23:51 <Zakim> pfps was already muted, pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was already muted, pfps

19:23:58 <pfps> ok by me

Peter Patel-Schneider: ok by me

19:24:00 <DougL> Deb, i think that recursively, by definition, the answer must be yes.

Doug Lenat: Deb, i think that recursively, by definition, the answer must be yes.

19:24:03 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:24:27 <ivan> ack bijan

Ivan Herman: ack bijan

19:24:28 <dlm> yes - just making sure for the log.  i would use this a lot.

Deborah McGuinness: yes - just making sure for the log. i would use this a lot.

19:24:56 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me

19:24:56 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted

19:25:25 <bcuencag> IanH: peter requested to ask for sponsorship for OWLEd

Ian Horrocks: peter requested to ask for sponsorship for OWLEd

19:25:27 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me

19:25:27 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted

19:25:33 <bcuencag> IanH and alan: we endorse the request

IanH and alan: we endorse the request

19:25:34 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+

19:25:43 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:26:43 <bcuencag> pfps: we would like to get enough money so that we do not need registration fees

Peter Patel-Schneider: we would like to get enough money so that we do not need registration fees

19:27:19 <jjc> (HP is always willing to host on that basis)

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: (HP is always willing to host on that basis)

19:27:29 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me

19:27:29 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted

19:27:38 <jjc>  know

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: know

19:28:24 <bcuencag> IanH: there is an issue concerning observers in the next F2F

Ian Horrocks: there is an issue concerning observers in the next F2F

19:28:39 <bcuencag> ianH: we had some issues with observers in manchester

Ian Horrocks: we had some issues with observers in manchester

19:28:43 <ivan> q+

Ivan Herman: q+

19:28:48 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q-

19:28:50 <bijan> I'm always happy to have observers of any kind

Bijan Parsia: I'm always happy to have observers of any kind

19:28:50 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:28:54 <jjc> I feel there should be a cap on number of observers from any one organisation

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: I feel there should be a cap on number of observers from any one organisation

19:28:54 <ivan> ack ivan

Ivan Herman: ack ivan

19:29:05 <msmith> q+

Michael Smith: q+

19:29:10 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:29:13 <bijan> I'm happy to have observers vote in various circumstantces (e.g., certain sorts of straw poll)

Bijan Parsia: I'm happy to have observers vote in various circumstantces (e.g., certain sorts of straw poll)

19:29:22 <bcuencag> ivan: we mean observers from member organizations, right?

Ivan Herman: we mean observers from member organizations, right?

19:29:32 <bijan> q+

Bijan Parsia: q+

19:29:40 <msmith> q-

Michael Smith: q-

19:29:42 <jjc> Also meeting room arrangement

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: Also meeting room arrangement

19:29:47 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:29:50 <bijan> q-

Bijan Parsia: q-

19:29:55 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me

19:29:55 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted

19:30:00 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

19:30:00 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted

19:30:00 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:30:24 <bcuencag> alan: the imports task force meeting is next monday

Alan Ruttenberg: the imports task force meeting is next monday

19:30:30 <bijan> I don't see any problem with non-member participation at a normal f2f...everything is publically minuted!

Bijan Parsia: I don't see any problem with non-member participation at a normal f2f...everything is publically minuted!

19:31:03 <uli> IanH, he took himself off the queue

Uli Sattler: IanH, he took himself off the queue

19:31:13 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q?

19:31:21 <bijan> +1 to sandro

Bijan Parsia: +1 to sandro

19:31:25 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me

19:31:25 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan

19:31:26 <alanr> do we have any actual requests for non members yet?

Alan Ruttenberg: do we have any actual requests for non members yet?

19:31:34 <jjc> it raises the bar to making member confidential commetns

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 25 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Michael Schneider Rinke Hoekstra Ivan Herman Uli Sattler Ian Horrocks Unknown Carsten Peter Patel-Schneider Michael Smith Doug Lenat Evan Wallace Bernardo Cuenca Grau Unknown Jim Zhe Wu Ratnesh Sahay Martin Dzbor Jeff Pan Alan Ruttenberg Deborah McGuinness Sandro Hawke Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: it raises the bar to making member confidential commetns

19:31:38 <bcuencag> IanH: it would be possible to have observers from non members, but

Ian Horrocks: it would be possible to have observers from non members, but

19:31:47 <bcuencag> IanH: they may be asked to leave the room

Ian Horrocks: they may be asked to leave the room

19:32:05 <bcuencag> bijan: I do not believe there are issues with non-members

Bijan Parsia: I do not believe there are issues with non-members

19:32:28 <msmith> I will clarify if I know of any such requests

Michael Smith: I will clarify if I know of any such requests

19:32:31 <bijan> jjc, the bar should be high

Bijan Parsia: jjc, the bar should be high

19:32:34 <Zakim> -JeffP

Zakim IRC Bot: -JeffP

19:32:36 <Zakim> -Ivan

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan

19:32:36 <Rinke> bye

Rinke Hoekstra: bye

19:32:38 <bcuencag> bye

bye

19:32:38 <JeffP> bye

Jeff Pan: bye

19:32:38 <uli> bye bye

Uli Sattler: bye bye

19:32:40 <Zakim> -bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik

19:32:41 <Zakim> -msmith

Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith

19:32:42 <Zakim> -Evan_Wallace

Zakim IRC Bot: -Evan_Wallace

19:32:43 <Zakim> -Elisa_Kendall

Zakim IRC Bot: -Elisa_Kendall

19:32:43 <Ratnesh> bye

Ratnesh Sahay: bye

19:32:43 <Zhe> bye

Zhe Wu: bye

19:32:44 <Zakim> -Ratnesh

Zakim IRC Bot: -Ratnesh

19:32:45 <bijan> jjc, since it's a pita to rip things out of the irc log

Bijan Parsia: jjc, since it's a pita to rip things out of the irc log

19:32:45 <Zakim> -DougL

Zakim IRC Bot: -DougL

19:32:47 <alanr> someone got the minutes?

Alan Ruttenberg: someone got the minutes?

19:32:49 <Zakim> -Rinke

Zakim IRC Bot: -Rinke

19:32:50 <Zakim> -uli

Zakim IRC Bot: -uli

19:32:51 <Zakim> -pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps

19:32:52 <Zakim> -alanr

Zakim IRC Bot: -alanr

19:32:54 <Zakim> -Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe

19:32:56 <Zakim> -jjc

Zakim IRC Bot: -jjc

19:32:58 <Zakim> -bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan

19:32:59 <bcuencag> so, concerning the minutes, what do I do?

so, concerning the minutes, what do I do?

19:33:00 <Zakim> -IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH

19:33:02 <Zakim> -Carsten.a

Zakim IRC Bot: -Carsten.a

19:33:09 <alanr> rrsagent, draft minutes

Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, draft minutes

19:33:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/30-owl-minutes.html alanr

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/30-owl-minutes.html alanr

19:33:13 <bcuencag> ok

ok

19:33:18 <alanr> rrsagent, make minutes world-readable

Alan Ruttenberg: rrsagent, make minutes world-readable

19:33:18 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-readable', alanr.  Try /msg RRSAgent help

RRSAgent IRC Bot: I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes world-readable', alanr. Try /msg RRSAgent help

19:33:26 <sandro> bcuencag, http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.30/Minutes is ready.

Sandro Hawke: bcuencag, http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.30/Minutes is ready.

19:34:00 <alanr> bye

Alan Ruttenberg: bye

19:34:04 <Zakim> -dlm

Zakim IRC Bot: -dlm

19:34:15 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro

19:34:18 <Zakim> -Achille

Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille

19:35:30 <Zakim> -m_schnei

Zakim IRC Bot: -m_schnei

19:40:31 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, bcuencag, in SW_OWL()12:00PM

(No events recorded for 5 minutes)

Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, bcuencag, in SW_OWL()12:00PM

19:40:35 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended

19:40:36 <Zakim> Attendees were bijan, bmotik, Rinke, m_schnei, Ivan, uli, +44.186.527.aaaa, IanH, Carsten, pfps, Sandro, msmith, Achille, DougL, Evan_Wallace, Zhe, +1.518.276.aabb, bcuencag,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were bijan, bmotik, Rinke, m_schnei, Ivan, uli, +44.186.527.aaaa, IanH, Carsten, pfps, Sandro, msmith, Achille, DougL, Evan_Wallace, Zhe, +1.518.276.aabb, bcuencag,

19:40:39 <Zakim> ... MartinD, Ratnesh, JeffP, +1.604.675.aacc, alanr, dlm, Jim, Elisa_Kendall, jjc

Zakim IRC Bot: ... MartinD, Ratnesh, JeffP, +1.604.675.aacc, alanr, dlm, Jim, Elisa_Kendall, jjc



Formatted by CommonScribe