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17:58:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-owl-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-owl-irc ←
17:58:46 <bijan> zakim, who's here?
Bijan Parsia: zakim, who's here? ←
17:58:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P11, +1.212.239.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P11, +1.212.239.aaaa ←
17:58:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, Carsten, IanH, sandro, alanr, pfps, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, Carsten, IanH, sandro, alanr, pfps, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng ←
17:58:56 <alanr> zakim, aaaa is me
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, aaaa is me ←
17:58:56 <Zakim> +alanr; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +alanr; got it ←
17:58:57 <bijan> zakim, ??P11 is me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??P11 is me ←
17:58:58 <Zakim> +bijan; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it ←
17:59:01 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
Ivan Herman: zakim, dial ivan-voip ←
17:59:01 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, ivan; the call is being made ←
17:59:03 <Zakim> +Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ivan ←
17:59:10 <Zakim> -alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: -alanr ←
17:59:17 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
Ivan Herman: zakim, who is here? ←
17:59:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan, Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan, Ivan ←
17:59:19 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?
Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, pointer? ←
17:59:19 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-owl-irc#T17-59-19
RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-owl-irc#T17-59-19 ←
17:59:23 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
17:59:27 <Zakim> On IRC I see msmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, Carsten, IanH, sandro, alanr, pfps, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see msmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, Carsten, IanH, sandro, alanr, pfps, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng ←
17:59:31 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
17:59:41 <Zakim> +alanr
Zakim IRC Bot: +alanr ←
17:59:43 <Zakim> +??P13
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←
17:59:48 <pfps> zakim, ??p13 is me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, ??p13 is me ←
17:59:53 <Zakim> +pfps; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it ←
17:59:59 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
18:00:05 <Zakim> + +8652aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +8652aabb ←
18:00:06 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:00:21 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
18:00:22 <IanH> zakim, aabb is me
Ian Horrocks: zakim, aabb is me ←
18:00:36 <Zakim> + +1.202.408.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.202.408.aacc ←
18:00:41 <Zakim> +??P21
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P21 ←
18:00:42 <Zakim> +IanH; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH; got it ←
18:00:46 <Zakim> + +9082aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +9082aadd ←
18:00:58 <Zakim> +??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P8 ←
18:01:05 <alanr> zakim, who is here?
Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←
18:01:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, ??P21, +9082aadd, ??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, ??P21, +9082aadd, ??P8 ←
18:01:06 <MartinD> zakim, aadd is me
Martin Dzbor: zakim, aadd is me ←
18:01:06 <bcuencag> zakim ??P18 is me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: zakim ??P18 is me ←
18:01:08 <Zakim> +MartinD; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +MartinD; got it ←
18:01:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see bcuencag, bmotik, msmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, Carsten, IanH, sandro, alanr, pfps, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see bcuencag, bmotik, msmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, Carsten, IanH, sandro, alanr, pfps, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng ←
18:01:10 <bmotik> Zakim, ??P21 is me
Boris Motik: Zakim, ??P21 is me ←
18:01:10 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it ←
18:01:19 <bcuencag> zakim, ??P18 is me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: zakim, ??P18 is me ←
18:01:19 <Zakim> I already had ??P18 as Sandro, bcuencag
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P18 as Sandro, bcuencag ←
18:01:37 <MartinD> zakim, mute me
Martin Dzbor: zakim, mute me ←
18:01:37 <Zakim> MartinD should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: MartinD should now be muted ←
18:02:03 <bcuencag> Zakim, +9082aadd is me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: Zakim, +9082aadd is me ←
18:02:03 <Zakim> sorry, bcuencag, I do not recognize a party named '+9082aadd'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, bcuencag, I do not recognize a party named '+9082aadd' ←
18:02:13 <Zakim> -??P8
Zakim IRC Bot: -??P8 ←
18:02:17 <Zakim> + +49.351.4.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +49.351.4.aaee ←
18:02:34 <sandro> q- bmotik
Sandro Hawke: q- bmotik ←
18:02:35 <Carsten> zakim, aaee is me
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Carsten: zakim, aaee is me ←
18:02:35 <Zakim> +Carsten; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Carsten; got it ←
18:02:35 <bijan> q-
Bijan Parsia: q- ←
18:02:35 <MartinD> zakim, +9082aadd is me
Martin Dzbor: zakim, +9082aadd is me ←
18:02:36 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
18:02:37 <Zakim> sorry, MartinD, I do not recognize a party named '+9082aadd'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, MartinD, I do not recognize a party named '+9082aadd' ←
18:02:38 <Zakim> +DougL
Zakim IRC Bot: +DougL ←
18:02:41 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
18:02:42 <Carsten> zakim, mute me
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 48 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Carsten: zakim, mute me ←
18:02:42 <Zakim> Carsten should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: Carsten should now be muted ←
18:02:42 <bijan> q- bmotik
Bijan Parsia: q- bmotik ←
18:02:48 <Zakim> + +018652aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +018652aaff ←
18:03:37 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call? ←
18:03:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik (muted), MartinD (muted), Carsten (muted), DougL, +018652aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik (muted), MartinD (muted), Carsten (muted), DougL, +018652aaff ←
18:03:41 <pfps> I put issue-93 into play
Peter Patel-Schneider: I put ISSUE-93 into play ←
18:03:46 <MartinD> +01865 is a UK number, bernardo, so might be yours?
Martin Dzbor: +01865 is a UK number, bernardo, so might be yours? ←
18:03:48 <Zakim> +[IBM]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IBM] ←
18:03:53 <bcuencag> yes
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: yes ←
18:04:01 <bcuencag> but zakim didn't see me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: but zakim didn't see me ←
18:04:06 <sandro> Zakim, aaff is bcuencag
Sandro Hawke: Zakim, aaff is bcuencag ←
18:04:06 <Zakim> +bcuencag; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +bcuencag; got it ←
18:04:09 <Achille> Zakim, IBM is Achille
Achille Fokoue: Zakim, IBM is Achille ←
18:04:09 <Zakim> +Achille; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Achille; got it ←
18:04:23 <Zakim> +??P24
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P24 ←
18:04:35 <ivan> zakim, ??P24 is jeremy
Ivan Herman: zakim, ??P24 is jeremy ←
18:04:35 <Zakim> +jeremy; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +jeremy; got it ←
18:04:36 <sandro> zakim, ??P24 is Jeremy
Sandro Hawke: zakim, ??P24 is Jeremy ←
18:04:36 <Zakim> I already had ??P24 as jeremy, sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P24 as jeremy, sandro ←
18:05:09 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call? ←
18:05:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik (muted), MartinD (muted), Carsten (muted), DougL, bcuencag, Achille, jeremy (muted)
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik (muted), MartinD (muted), Carsten (muted), DougL, bcuencag, Achille, jeremy (muted) ←
18:05:35 <MartinD> so, shoould i be typing?
Martin Dzbor: so, shoould i be typing? ←
18:06:12 <bcuencag> zakim, mute me
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: zakim, mute me ←
18:06:12 <Zakim> bcuencag should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bcuencag should now be muted ←
18:06:12 <MartinD> ian, I can do it (martin) = and I am not around next week
Martin Dzbor: ian, I can do it (martin) = and I am not around next week ←
18:06:19 <sandro> Present: Bijan, Ivan, alanr, pfps, Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik, MartinD, Carsten, DougL, bcuencag, Achille, jeremy
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu
18:06:43 <sandro> scribenick: MartinD
(Scribe set to Martin Dzbor)
18:06:50 <MartinD> I guess I am fairly to the top
I guess I am fairly to the top ←
18:07:02 <MartinD> scribenick: MartinD
18:07:04 <Zakim> + +1.603.897.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.603.897.aagg ←
18:07:17 <MartinD> Topic: agenda amendments
18:07:29 <bijan> If there's primer or restructuring comments I'd love to hear them
Bijan Parsia: If there's primer or restructuring comments I'd love to hear them ←
18:07:31 <pfps> q+
18:07:32 <MartinD> Ian: set this scribing business up on mailing list
Ian Horrocks: set this scribing business up on mailing list ←
18:07:33 <bijan> as an agenda amendments
Bijan Parsia: as an agenda amendments ←
18:07:35 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:07:38 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
18:07:43 <pfps> -1, and I read them
Peter Patel-Schneider: -1, and I read them ←
18:07:45 <Achille> +1
Achille Fokoue: +1 ←
18:07:57 <MartinD> PROPOSED: accept last week's minutes
PROPOSED: accept last week's minutes ←
18:08:16 <bijan> Aren't Wikis fun
Bijan Parsia: Aren't Wikis fun ←
18:08:16 <bijan> Bullwinkle: Watch me pull a rabbit out of this hat!
Scribe problem: the name 'Bullwinkle' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Bullwinkle: Watch me pull a rabbit out of this hat! [ Scribe Assist by Bijan Parsia ] ←
18:08:16 <bijan> Rocky: Bullwinkle, that trick never works!
Scribe problem: the name 'Rocky' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Rocky: Bullwinkle, that trick never works! [ Scribe Assist by Bijan Parsia ] ←
18:08:16 <bijan> Bullwinkle: I gotta get me a new hat!
Scribe problem: the name 'Bullwinkle' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Bullwinkle: I gotta get me a new hat! [ Scribe Assist by Bijan Parsia ] ←
18:08:18 <jjc> q-
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: q- ←
18:08:22 <jjc> q- jeremy
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jjc: q- jeremy ←
18:08:31 <MartinD> Ian: do the minutes need more cleaning up?
Ian Horrocks: do the minutes need more cleaning up? ←
18:08:33 <pfps> q-
18:08:37 <bijan> Jim
Bijan Parsia: Jim ←
18:08:41 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:08:41 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
18:08:41 <MartinD> +1 (accept)
+1 (accept) ←
18:08:52 <sandro> zakim, who is on the call?
Sandro Hawke: zakim, who is on the call? ←
18:08:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik (muted), MartinD (muted), Carsten (muted), DougL, bcuencag (muted), Achille, jeremy
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik (muted), MartinD (muted), Carsten (muted), DougL, bcuencag (muted), Achille, jeremy ←
18:08:55 <Zakim> ... (muted), +1.603.897.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: ... (muted), +1.603.897.aagg ←
18:09:01 <MartinD> Ian: let's put it off until next week, ask Jim to clean it up
Ian Horrocks: let's put it off until next week, ask Jim to clean it up ←
18:09:19 <Zakim> +??P27
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P27 ←
18:09:27 <pfps> still missing pointers to talks in F2F minutes
Peter Patel-Schneider: still missing pointers to talks in F2F minutes ←
18:09:30 <Zhe> zakim, ??P27 is me
Scribe problem: the name 'Zhe' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Zhe' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Zhe: zakim, ??P27 is me ←
18:09:30 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe; got it ←
18:09:33 <MartinD> Ian, are the minutes accepted = resolved??
Ian, are the minutes accepted = resolved?? ←
18:10:18 <MartinD> PROPOSED: Manchester minutes are also postponed for later
PROPOSED: Manchester minutes are also postponed for later ←
18:10:22 <alanr> action: Alan to add links to presentations to F2F minutes
ACTION: Alan to add links to presentations to F2F minutes ←
18:10:22 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-66 - Add links to presentations to F2F minutes [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-01-23].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-66 - Add links to presentations to F2F minutes [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-01-23]. ←
18:10:24 <pfps> +0
18:10:26 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
18:10:28 <JeffP> zakim, who is here?
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown JeffP: zakim, who is here? ←
18:10:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik (muted), MartinD (muted), Carsten (muted), DougL, bcuencag (muted), Achille, jeremy
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Ivan, alanr, pfps (muted), Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik (muted), MartinD (muted), Carsten (muted), DougL, bcuencag (muted), Achille, jeremy ←
18:10:28 <bijan> Perhaps some other volunteer to help with thte F2f minutes?
Bijan Parsia: Perhaps some other volunteer to help with thte F2f minutes? ←
18:10:31 <Zakim> ... (muted), +1.603.897.aagg, Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: ... (muted), +1.603.897.aagg, Zhe ←
18:10:32 <bijan> Alan alraedy has to do a lot
Bijan Parsia: Alan alraedy has to do a lot ←
18:10:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see JeffP, jeremy, Zhe, Achille, DougL, bcuencag, bmotik, msmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, Carsten, IanH, sandro, alanr, pfps, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see JeffP, jeremy, Zhe, Achille, DougL, bcuencag, bmotik, msmith, RRSAgent, Zakim, bijan, Carsten, IanH, sandro, alanr, pfps, ivan, MartinD, trackbot-ng ←
18:10:42 <pfps> +0
18:10:47 <sandro> PROPOSED: Accept F2F1 minutes with presentation links being added later
PROPOSED: Accept F2F1 minutes with presentation links being added later ←
18:10:47 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:10:47 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
18:11:00 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:11:00 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
18:11:04 <sandro> +1 accept minutes
Sandro Hawke: +1 accept minutes ←
18:11:06 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:11:08 <ivan> +1
Ivan Herman: +1 ←
18:11:09 <jeremy> +0
Jeremy Carroll: +0 ←
18:11:11 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:11:11 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
18:11:16 <JeffP> Zhe, is +1603897.. your number?
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown JeffP: Zhe, is +1603897.. your number? ←
18:11:26 <Zhe> jeffp: yes
Scribe problem: the name 'Zhe' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'jeffp' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown jeffp: yes [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Zhe ] ←
18:11:29 <ivan> ack bijan
Ivan Herman: ack bijan ←
18:11:44 <JeffP> zakim, aagg is Zhe
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 17 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown JeffP: zakim, aagg is Zhe ←
18:11:44 <Zakim> +Zhe; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe; got it ←
18:12:14 <sandro> Present: Bijan, Ivan, alanr, pfps, Sandro, IanH, msmith, bmotik, MartinD, Carsten, DougL, bcuencag, Achille, jeremy, Zhe
Scribe problem: the name 'Carsten' does not match any of the 45 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Jonathan Rees Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Michael Schneider Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu
18:12:16 <MartinD> Alan: links and presentations were communicate via mailing list
Alan Ruttenberg: links and presentations were communicate via mailing list ←
18:12:21 <JeffP> zakim, ??P27 is me
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown JeffP: zakim, ??P27 is me ←
18:12:22 <Zakim> I already had ??P27 as Zhe, JeffP
Zakim IRC Bot: I already had ??P27 as Zhe, JeffP ←
18:12:47 <jeremy> Zakim, Zhe is really JeffP
Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, Zhe is really JeffP ←
18:12:49 <Zakim> +JeffP; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +JeffP; got it ←
18:12:49 <alanr> s/-;)/;-)/
Alan Ruttenberg: s/-;)/;-)/ (warning: replacement failed) ←
18:12:58 <JeffP> jeremy, thanks!
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown JeffP: jeremy, thanks! ←
18:13:00 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:13:01 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
18:13:08 <Zakim> -Zhe.a
Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe.a ←
18:13:40 <MartinD> RESOLVED: Accept Manchester mintues subject to clean-up and finalization
RESOLVED: Accept Manchester mintues subject to clean-up and finalization ←
18:13:41 <Zakim> +Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe ←
18:13:50 <sandro> PROPOSED: Accept F2F1 minutes with presentation links being added later
PROPOSED: Accept F2F1 minutes with presentation links being added later ←
18:14:15 <sandro> RESOLVED: Accept F2F1 minutes with presentation links being added later
RESOLVED: Accept F2F1 minutes with presentation links being added later ←
18:14:16 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:14:20 <pfps> +1
18:14:21 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
18:14:25 <jeremy> My presentation is linked from some minutes (may be last weeks) I will find the link and post again
Jeremy Carroll: My presentation is linked from some minutes (may be last weeks) I will find the link and post again ←
18:14:35 <MartinD> Topic: Pending review actions
18:14:45 <MartinD> Ian: most are in a good shape
Ian Horrocks: most are in a good shape ←
18:14:47 <pfps> all pending review actions look OK
Peter Patel-Schneider: all pending review actions look OK ←
18:14:48 <bijan> yes
Bijan Parsia: yes ←
18:14:55 <MartinD> Ian: Bijan has completed his action
Ian Horrocks: Bijan has completed his action ←
18:14:58 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:14:58 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
18:15:32 <MartinD> Bijan: three actions concluded, scenario is under control...
Bijan Parsia: three actions concluded, scenario is under control... ←
18:15:42 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:15:42 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
18:15:45 <MartinD> Ian: action for Jeremy, also completed?
Ian Horrocks: action for Jeremy, also completed? ←
18:15:49 <jeremy> Zakim, unmute me
Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:15:49 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted ←
18:15:55 <jeremy> Zakim, mute me
Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, mute me ←
18:15:55 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should now be muted ←
18:16:19 <jeremy> Zakim, unmute me
Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:16:19 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted ←
18:16:24 <MartinD> Ian: actions were completed adequetaly, so are there any problems with them?
Ian Horrocks: actions were completed adequetaly, so are there any problems with them? ←
18:16:52 <MartinD> ?: what we need to the with these actions pending review?
?: what we need to the with these actions pending review? ←
18:18:13 <MartinD> Topic: overdue actions
18:18:40 <jeremy> My slides http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/att-0097/dl-and-full.pdf
Jeremy Carroll: My slides http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/att-0097/dl-and-full.pdf ←
18:18:41 <MartinD> Sandro: working on action 43, in progress... no specific date yet
Sandro Hawke: working on ACTION-43, in progress... no specific date yet ←
18:18:57 <MartinD> Sandro: will try to fix it by Feb 5th (?)
Sandro Hawke: will try to fix it by Jan 25 (?) ←
18:19:14 <bijan> It's done
Bijan Parsia: It's done ←
18:19:18 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:19:18 <Zakim> bijan was already muted, bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was already muted, bijan ←
18:19:22 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:19:22 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
18:19:28 <sandro> s/Feb 5th/Jan 25/
18:19:38 <MartinD> Ian: action 56 overdue is probably done -> Bijan says: has been rolled into n-ary proposal...
Ian Horrocks: ACTION-56 overdue is probably done -> Bijan says: has been rolled into n-ary proposal... ←
18:19:57 <MartinD> Bijan: action should be closed, more info to be circulated this week
Bijan Parsia: action should be closed, more info to be circulated this week ←
18:20:10 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
18:21:01 <alanr> k
Alan Ruttenberg: k ←
18:21:08 <MartinD> Topic: Proposals to resove issues
18:21:15 <mschnei> hi there, am I finally in?
Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown mschnei: hi there, am I finally in? ←
18:21:24 <MartinD> PROPOSED: Issue 29 (datatype vs. data range)
PROPOSED: ISSUE-29 (datatype vs. data range) ←
18:21:41 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
18:21:41 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
18:21:46 <MartinD> Ian: peter refreshes what proposal is about
Ian Horrocks: peter refreshes what proposal is about ←
18:22:09 <mschnei> god thanks ;-)
Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown mschnei: god thanks ;-) ←
18:22:21 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:22:21 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
18:22:32 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:22:32 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
18:22:37 <jeremy> q+
Jeremy Carroll: q+ ←
18:22:41 <msmith> q+ to ask about point 4
Michael Smith: q+ to ask about point 4 ←
18:22:46 <jeremy> Zakim, unmute me
Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:22:46 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted ←
18:22:56 <ivan> ack jeremy
Ivan Herman: ack jeremy ←
18:22:57 <bmotik> I didn't understand: has this been already implemented in the documents?
Boris Motik: I didn't understand: has this been already implemented in the documents? ←
18:22:58 <MartinD> PFPS: proposal is to move to rdf data type, we checked rdf semantics, datarange is deprecated
Peter Patel-Schneider: proposal is to move to rdf data type, we checked rdf semantics, datarange is deprecated ←
18:23:06 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:23:43 <pfps> PROPOSED; ISSUE-29 move from owl:Datarange to rdfs:Datatype
Peter Patel-Schneider: PROPOSED; ISSUE-29 move from owl:Datarange to rdfs:Datatype ←
18:23:50 <MartinD> Jeremy: we use data range before, we may want to think about the past use
Jeremy Carroll: we use data range before, we may want to think about the past use ←
18:23:57 <pfps> Hmm, I think that Jeremy's point needs thought
Peter Patel-Schneider: Hmm, I think that Jeremy's point needs thought ←
18:23:58 <MartinD> Jeremy: only noticed now
Jeremy Carroll: only noticed now ←
18:24:07 <jeremy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0147
Jeremy Carroll: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0147 ←
18:24:12 <msmith> q-
Michael Smith: q- ←
18:24:17 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
18:24:17 <Zakim> pfps was already muted, pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was already muted, pfps ←
18:24:18 <JeffP> +1
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown JeffP: +1 ←
18:24:32 <jeremy> Zakim, mute me
Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, mute me ←
18:24:32 <Zakim> jeremy should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should now be muted ←
18:24:43 <MartinD> Issue 73: owl:thing being infinte
ISSUE-73: owl:thing being infinte ←
18:24:50 <pfps> +1 to reject 73
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to reject 73 ←
18:24:51 <alanr> I raised issue and concur on rejection
Alan Ruttenberg: I raised issue and concur on rejection ←
18:24:53 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:24:56 <bijan> +1 to reject 73
Bijan Parsia: +1 to reject 73 ←
18:24:58 <MartinD> Ian: this seems to be unanimous, people agree to reject
Ian Horrocks: this seems to be unanimous, people agree to reject ←
18:25:02 <IanH> PROPOSED: close (as REJECTED) Issue 73 (Should owl:Thing be necessarily infinite?) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0059.html
PROPOSED: close (as REJECTED) ISSUE-73 (Should owl:Thing be necessarily infinite?) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0059.html ←
18:25:04 <jeremy> -1
Jeremy Carroll: -1 ←
18:25:11 <msmith> +1 to close as rejected ISSUE-73
Michael Smith: +1 to close as rejected ISSUE-73 ←
18:25:15 <jeremy> Zakim, unmute me
Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:25:15 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted ←
18:25:17 <Achille> +1 to close
Achille Fokoue: +1 to close ←
18:25:24 <Achille> as rejected
Achille Fokoue: as rejected ←
18:25:31 <bcuencag> +1 to close as rejected
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1 to close as rejected ←
18:25:43 <Carsten> +1
Unknown Carsten: +1 ←
18:25:48 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:26:02 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:26:02 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
18:26:03 <Zakim> +Elisa_Kendall
Zakim IRC Bot: +Elisa_Kendall ←
18:26:05 <DougL> +1
Doug Lenat: +1 ←
18:26:08 <Zhe> +1
18:26:16 <MartinD> Jeremy: if nobody can support Jeremy's position, Jeremy notes his opposition, but sees no point in contiunuing debate
Jeremy Carroll: if nobody can support Jeremy's position, Jeremy notes his opposition, but sees no point in contiunuing debate ←
18:26:18 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:26:19 <bmotik> +1 to close issue as rejected
Boris Motik: +1 to close issue as rejected ←
18:26:32 <MartinD> Bijan: is this an objection from HP? or the status...
Bijan Parsia: is this an objection from HP? or the status... ←
18:26:38 <sandro> Jeremy: this is NOT a formal objection.
Jeremy Carroll: this is NOT a formal objection. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:26:41 <MartinD> Jeremy: it's not a formal objection
Jeremy Carroll: it's not a formal objection ←
18:27:22 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:27:22 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
18:27:28 <sandro> Jeremy: there may be enough small problems like this, that it may total to a formal objection......
Jeremy Carroll: there may be enough small problems like this, that it may total to a formal objection...... [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:28:05 <MartinD> Ian: close the issue, record Jeremy/HP voting against...
Ian Horrocks: close the issue, record Jeremy/HP voting against... ←
18:28:19 <sandro> ian: ongoing discussion of this is not likely to get us to consensus. Jeremy seems to agree with this assessment -- he just wants a "no" vote recorded.
Ian Horrocks: ongoing discussion of this is not likely to get us to consensus. Jeremy seems to agree with this assessment -- he just wants a "no" vote recorded. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←
18:28:24 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
18:28:29 <MartinD> Jeremy: maybe HP should review the vote against, but perhaps at the next publication stage
Jeremy Carroll: maybe HP should review the vote against, but perhaps at the next publication stage ←
18:28:33 <JeffP> +1
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown JeffP: +1 ←
18:28:33 <MartinD> +1
+1 ←
18:28:42 <ivan> 0
Ivan Herman: 0 ←
18:28:45 <sandro> 0
Sandro Hawke: 0 ←
18:28:55 <MartinD> Ian: make sure we record everybody's voice, incl. abstaining
Ian Horrocks: make sure we record everybody's voice, incl. abstaining ←
18:29:21 <IanH> RESOLVED: close (as REJECTED) Issue 73 (Should owl:Thing be necessarily infinite?) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0059.html
RESOLVED: close (as REJECTED) ISSUE-73 (Should owl:Thing be necessarily infinite?) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0059.html ←
18:29:54 <MartinD> Moving to issue 74, xsd facets
Moving to ISSUE-74, xsd facets ←
18:29:57 <IanH> PROPOSED: close (as RESOLVED) Issue 74 (Use the xsd namespace for the facet names) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0050.html
PROPOSED: close (as RESOLVED) ISSUE-74 (Use the xsd namespace for the facet names) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0050.html ←
18:30:06 <MartinD> Ian: discussed last time, everybody seems happy along the above lines
Ian Horrocks: discussed last time, everybody seems happy along the above lines ←
18:30:06 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
18:30:10 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
18:30:10 <MartinD> Ian: quick vote
Ian Horrocks: quick vote ←
18:30:11 <pfps> +1 to resolve 74
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to resolve 74 ←
18:30:12 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
18:30:14 <jeremy> +1
Jeremy Carroll: +1 ←
18:30:14 <Achille> +1
Achille Fokoue: +1 ←
18:30:15 <DougL> +1
Doug Lenat: +1 ←
18:30:15 <msmith> +q to ask about scope
Michael Smith: +q to ask about scope ←
18:30:17 <Zhe> +1
18:30:19 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:30:23 <MartinD> +1
+1 ←
18:30:27 <bijan> q-
Bijan Parsia: q- ←
18:30:29 <Elisa> +1
Scribe problem: the name 'Elisa' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Elisa' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Elisa: +1 ←
18:30:36 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
18:30:41 <ivan> ack msmith
Ivan Herman: ack msmith ←
18:30:41 <Zakim> msmith, you wanted to ask about scope
Zakim IRC Bot: msmith, you wanted to ask about scope ←
18:31:25 <JeffP> +1
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown JeffP: +1 ←
18:31:29 <MartinD> MSmith: asking about the scope... there might be some contentious item..
Michael Smith: asking about the scope... there might be some contentious item.. ←
18:31:39 <jeremy> Clarified all A-D
Jeremy Carroll: Clarified all A-D ←
18:31:40 <MartinD> Ian: discussed last time,
Ian Horrocks: discussed last time, ←
18:31:50 <msmith> +1
Michael Smith: +1 ←
18:32:01 <IanH> RESOLVED: close (as RESOLVED) Issue 74 (Use the xsd namespace for the facet names) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0050.html
RESOLVED: close (as RESOLVED) ISSUE-74 (Use the xsd namespace for the facet names) as per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2008Jan/0050.html ←
18:32:46 <MartinD> Topic: Discussion, Blank nodes and Skolems (issue 3)
18:32:56 <MartinD> Ian: some discussion on the mailing list...
Ian Horrocks: some discussion on the mailing list... ←
18:32:57 <jeremy> (bijan first?)
Jeremy Carroll: (bijan first?) ←
18:33:04 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:33:04 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan ←
18:33:29 <MartinD> Bijan: responded to Jeremy's msg.,
Bijan Parsia: responded to Jeremy's msg., ←
18:33:58 <MartinD> Bijan: ffrom the beginnning, in owl 1.0 we could represent tree-like patterns of anonymous
Bijan Parsia: ffrom the beginnning, in owl 1.0 we could represent tree-like patterns of anonymous ←
18:34:05 <MartinD> Bijan: serialized as blank nodes
Bijan Parsia: serialized as blank nodes ←
18:34:43 <MartinD> Bijan: RDF extensionally qualifies all b-nodes, which in OWL would mean undecidability
Bijan Parsia: RDF extensionally qualifies all b-nodes, which in OWL would mean undecidability ←
18:35:13 <MartinD> Bijan: possibly have them as syntactic sugar, to handle RDF graphs as users expect
Bijan Parsia: possibly have them as syntactic sugar, to handle RDF graphs as users expect ←
18:35:34 <MartinD> Bijan: Karsten proposed a spec. role to represent true extensionals
Bijan Parsia: Karsten proposed a spec. role to represent true extensionals ←
18:35:43 <jeremy> (I'm behind on the universal prop and existentials)
Jeremy Carroll: (I'm behind on the universal prop and existentials) ←
18:35:44 <MartinD> Bijan: objections, question?
Bijan Parsia: objections, question? ←
18:35:54 <jeremy> Zakim, unmute me
Jeremy Carroll: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:35:57 <Zakim> jeremy should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy should no longer be muted ←
18:36:19 <MartinD> Jeremy: discussed issue and it's clear that many implementations use skolems...
Jeremy Carroll: discussed issue and it's clear that many implementations use skolems... ←
18:36:28 <bijan> q+ to ask about "implementation techniques"
Bijan Parsia: q+ to ask about "implementation techniques" ←
18:36:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:37:17 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:37:20 <MartinD> Jeremy: there were implementations in previous wg, that's why we defined certain checks
Jeremy Carroll: there were implementations in previous wg, that's why we defined certain checks ←
18:37:24 <pfps> q+ to talk about what the OWL 1.0 specs imply
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ to talk about what the OWL 1.0 specs imply ←
18:37:41 <MartinD> Ian: is this the case that we define conformance w.r.t consistency check, not being able to tell diff
Ian Horrocks: is this the case that we define conformance w.r.t consistency check, not being able to tell diff ←
18:38:00 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:38:10 <MartinD> Jeremy: basically yes, diff parts of rdf graph correspond to dl constructs
Jeremy Carroll: basically yes, diff parts of rdf graph correspond to dl constructs ←
18:38:19 <bmotik> Jeremy, I didn't udnerstand that
Boris Motik: Jeremy, I didn't udnerstand that ←
18:38:33 <MartinD> Jeremy: b-nodes treated diff in owl-full = its semantics becomes more difficult
Jeremy Carroll: b-nodes treated diff in owl-full = its semantics becomes more difficult ←
18:38:50 <ivan> ack bijan
Ivan Herman: ack bijan ←
18:38:50 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to ask about "implementation techniques"
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to ask about "implementation techniques" ←
18:38:57 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
18:39:34 <MartinD> Bijan: not understanding what is meant by impl. techniques, skolemization is a common one, but we're proposing something stronger, so taht some entailments hold,
Bijan Parsia: not understanding what is meant by impl. techniques, skolemization is a common one, but we're proposing something stronger, so taht some entailments hold, ←
18:40:00 <MartinD> Bijan: if we reason about abox, we recognize the items as individuals, as people expect should happen
Bijan Parsia: if we reason about abox, we recognize the items as individuals, as people expect should happen ←
18:40:16 <MartinD> Bijan: owl-full seems a bit hypothetical problem?
Bijan Parsia: owl-full seems a bit hypothetical problem? ←
18:41:03 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:41:11 <MartinD> Bijan: need to reconcile arguments that in some cases keep the old approach vs. cases that change semantics (of owl full), which could break reasoners
Bijan Parsia: need to reconcile arguments that in some cases keep the old approach vs. cases that change semantics (of owl full), which could break reasoners ←
18:41:33 <MartinD> Bijan: we're trying to bridge the gap between dl and full, at the cost of some abstract parts of the theory
Bijan Parsia: we're trying to bridge the gap between dl and full, at the cost of some abstract parts of the theory ←
18:41:38 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:41:38 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
18:41:43 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:41:43 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
18:41:45 <IanH> ack boris
Ian Horrocks: ack boris ←
18:41:45 <ivan> ack bmotik
Ivan Herman: ack bmotik ←
18:41:54 <pfps> q-
18:42:28 <MartinD> Boris: reiterating Jeremy, if we treat skolems as individuals or exist. variables, doesn't matter... as long as we maintain consistency criteria? correct?
Boris Motik: reiterating Jeremy, if we treat skolems as individuals or exist. variables, doesn't matter... as long as we maintain consistency criteria? correct? ←
18:42:59 <MartinD> Boris: we may actually strengthen this, in rdf we can have b-nodes on syntax level
Boris Motik: we may actually strengthen this, in rdf we can have b-nodes on syntax level ←
18:43:20 <alanr> can't tell the difference in owl1.0 afaik - needed negated property assertions ?
Alan Ruttenberg: can't tell the difference in owl1.0 afaik - needed negated property assertions ? ←
18:43:25 <MartinD> Boris: b--nodes in entailed ontologies?
Boris Motik: b--nodes in entailed ontologies? ←
18:43:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:43:39 <MartinD> Boris: treat b-nodes as existentials?
Boris Motik: treat b-nodes as existentials? ←
18:43:58 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:44:13 <MartinD> Boris: if it's on the right hand side... if it's in the graph part it's something else
Boris Motik: if it's on the right hand side... if it's in the graph part it's something else ←
18:44:40 <bijan> q+ to disagree
Bijan Parsia: q+ to disagree ←
18:45:10 <Carsten> What is the opposite of "b-bode in the data"?
Unknown Carsten: What is the opposite of "b-bode in the data"? ←
18:45:11 <MartinD> Ian: interesting thing = worried about the case when everything is skolemized, incl b-nodes?
Ian Horrocks: interesting thing = worried about the case when everything is skolemized, incl b-nodes? ←
18:45:19 <bijan> Good point by Ian....though they are alrady skolemized!
Bijan Parsia: Good point by Ian....though they are alrady skolemized! ←
18:45:31 <bijan> Carsten, tbox axioms use bnodes for syntax
Bijan Parsia: Carsten, tbox axioms use bnodes for syntax ←
18:45:45 <bmotik> q+ for Jeremy
Boris Motik: q+ for Jeremy ←
18:45:51 <bijan> e.g., C subClassOf [a restriction; onProperty P; someValuesFrom C]
Bijan Parsia: e.g., C subClassOf [a restriction; onProperty P; someValuesFrom C] ←
18:45:52 <MartinD> Jeremy: coming from owl-full impl...
Jeremy Carroll: coming from owl-full impl... ←
18:45:52 <bmotik> q- for
Boris Motik: q- for ←
18:45:53 <pfps> hmm, skolemizing syntax on the RHS would have grave consequences
Peter Patel-Schneider: hmm, skolemizing syntax on the RHS would have grave consequences ←
18:45:56 <jeremy> q-
Jeremy Carroll: q- ←
18:45:58 <Carsten> bijan: in which case does this happen?
Bijan Parsia: in which case does this happen? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown Carsten ] ←
18:46:04 <bijan> the brackets are bnodes
Bijan Parsia: the brackets are bnodes ←
18:46:20 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:46:22 <bijan> Carsten, pervasively...any class expression really
Bijan Parsia: Carsten, pervasively...any class expression really ←
18:46:30 <MartinD> Ian: when skolemizing individuals would cause problems... it's a thing what other people talk about?
Ian Horrocks: when skolemizing individuals would cause problems... it's a thing what other people talk about? ←
18:46:31 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:46:34 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:46:34 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
18:46:45 <alanr> Jeremy: Do I understand that you are worried that Full would make non-entailments if this was adoped?
Jeremy Carroll: Do I understand that you are worried that Full would make non-entailments if this was adoped? [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←
18:47:21 <alanr> or rather without doing more work in Jena
Alan Ruttenberg: or rather without doing more work in Jena ←
18:47:31 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
18:47:33 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
18:47:35 <MartinD> Bijan: thought that in owl-dl there is a way of skolemizing syntax... we already use, everybody using rdf is already using those things
Bijan Parsia: thought that in owl-dl there is a way of skolemizing syntax... we already use, everybody using rdf is already using those things ←
18:47:41 <jeremy> q+ to respond to boris's question?
Jeremy Carroll: q+ to respond to boris's question? ←
18:47:44 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:47:56 <MartinD> Bijan: in SPARQL, b-nodes can in answers and can be treated as skolems...
Bijan Parsia: in SPARQL, b-nodes can in answers and can be treated as skolems... ←
18:48:14 <pfps> if you skolemize syntax, then john in >=1 C won't entail john in >=1 C in OWL Full
Peter Patel-Schneider: if you skolemize syntax, then john in >=1 C won't entail john in >=1 C in OWL Full ←
18:48:26 <MartinD> Bijan: supporting sparql syntax over ontologies, it matters a lot how we treat it
Bijan Parsia: supporting sparql syntax over ontologies, it matters a lot how we treat it ←
18:48:39 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:48:42 <MartinD> Bijan: might not be variables, just funny renaming conditions
Bijan Parsia: might not be variables, just funny renaming conditions ←
18:48:45 <alanr> ack bijan
Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←
18:48:45 <Zakim> bijan, you wanted to disagree
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan, you wanted to disagree ←
18:48:51 <bmotik> q+ to ask a question
Boris Motik: q+ to ask a question ←
18:48:55 <MartinD> Bijan: example of rdf syntax which is highly visible and has impact
Bijan Parsia: example of rdf syntax which is highly visible and has impact ←
18:49:24 <mschnei> FZI is pro "bNodes as skolems" in /DL/
Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown mschnei: FZI is pro "bNodes as skolems" in /DL/ ←
18:49:24 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:49:31 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
18:50:01 <MartinD> Alan: wants to clarify = concern is because of role impl. that generates entailments in owl-full... would be incorrect if skolemization is used?
Alan Ruttenberg: wants to clarify = concern is because of role impl. that generates entailments in owl-full... would be incorrect if skolemization is used? ←
18:50:02 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:50:02 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
18:50:10 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:50:34 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:50:38 <MartinD> Ian: less complicate if considering skolemizatin as syntax?
Ian Horrocks: less complicate if considering skolemizatin as syntax? ←
18:50:55 <MartinD> Jeremy: answer boris... howjena treats b-nodes on the RHS
Jeremy Carroll: answer boris... howjena treats b-nodes on the RHS ←
18:51:21 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:51:25 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
18:51:25 <Zakim> bmotik was not muted, bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik was not muted, bmotik ←
18:51:26 <MartinD> Jeremy: implemented to satisfy test cases = skolemized on the LHS, on RHS it's variables .......
Jeremy Carroll: implemented to satisfy test cases = skolemized on the LHS, on RHS it's variables ....... ←
18:51:26 <ivan> ack jeremy
Ivan Herman: ack jeremy ←
18:51:27 <bijan> really?
Bijan Parsia: really? ←
18:51:27 <Zakim> jeremy, you wanted to respond to boris's question?
Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy, you wanted to respond to boris's question? ←
18:52:00 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:52:00 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
18:52:03 <MartinD> Boris: why conversion of RHS in spqrql? is the diff betwen bihan's and jeremy's view in schema part?
Boris Motik: why conversion of RHS in spqrql? is the diff betwen bihan's and jeremy's view in schema part? ←
18:52:53 <MartinD> Bijan: data counts... users may work on expectation that we take RHS and LHS, maintain mapping, entail, get them back
Bijan Parsia: data counts... users may work on expectation that we take RHS and LHS, maintain mapping, entail, get them back ←
18:53:01 <MartinD> Bijan: no issue with schema part...
Bijan Parsia: no issue with schema part... ←
18:53:11 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
18:53:11 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
18:53:28 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:53:34 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
18:53:34 <Zakim> bmotik, you wanted to ask a question
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik, you wanted to ask a question ←
18:53:35 <MartinD> Jeremy: main concern is to change underlying semantics
Jeremy Carroll: main concern is to change underlying semantics ←
18:53:47 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
18:53:59 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:54:32 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
18:54:37 <MartinD> Jeremy:not sure how changing semantics changes classificationa apps... why change semantics?
Jeremy Carroll: not sure how changing semantics changes classificationa apps... why change semantics? ←
18:54:42 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
18:54:59 <bijan> It matters for counting
Bijan Parsia: It matters for counting ←
18:54:59 <MartinD> Ian: classification may not make entailment visible... only uses satsifability
Ian Horrocks: classification may not make entailment visible... only uses satsifability ←
18:55:10 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:55:26 <IanH> ack bmotik
Ian Horrocks: ack bmotik ←
18:55:58 <MartinD> Boris: assume we're defining b-nodes in data as skolems... how to implement? not a matter of changing semantics doc, maybe a change for parsing doc?
Boris Motik: assume we're defining b-nodes in data as skolems... how to implement? not a matter of changing semantics doc, maybe a change for parsing doc? ←
18:56:23 <MartinD> Boris: every b-=node should be mapped onto an element of graph -> individual, etc.
Boris Motik: every b-=node should be mapped onto an element of graph -> individual, etc. ←
18:56:25 <bijan> I am happy with Boris's proposal to move it to parsing
Bijan Parsia: I am happy with Boris's proposal to move it to parsing ←
18:56:51 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:56:56 <jeremy> q+ to respond to parsing suggestion ....
Jeremy Carroll: q+ to respond to parsing suggestion .... ←
18:57:11 <MartinD> Boris: this may provide solution = on semantic level, b-nodes are existential vars, but there can be a switch to say that when parsing rdf, they should be treated as skolems> could be?
Boris Motik: this may provide solution = on semantic level, b-nodes are existential vars, but there can be a switch to say that when parsing rdf, they should be treated as skolems> could be? ←
18:57:11 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:57:13 <mschnei> boris, you have at least the testcases (normative document): you can have testcases for non-entailments for skolems, which would be entailments for existentials
Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown mschnei: boris, you have at least the testcases (normative document): you can have testcases for non-entailments for skolems, which would be entailments for existentials ←
18:57:17 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
18:58:00 <MartinD> Alan: how this is visible... practical reasons, removes requirement and b-node as a tree, allows more flexibility,... intended meaning in most cases is skolemization...
Alan Ruttenberg: how this is visible... practical reasons, removes requirement and b-node as a tree, allows more flexibility,... intended meaning in most cases is skolemization... ←
18:58:06 <JeffP> q+ on how to explain the difference to users
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown JeffP: q+ on how to explain the difference to users ←
18:58:24 <bmotik> Alan, you have inequality
Boris Motik: Alan, you have inequality ←
18:58:35 <MartinD> Alan: we don't see diff between skolems and existentials in owl 1.0... we need a negated property on individuals to see it??
Alan Ruttenberg: we don't see diff between skolems and existentials in owl 1.0... we need a negated property on individuals to see it?? ←
18:58:37 <JeffP> q+ to ask how to explain the difference to users
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown JeffP: q+ to ask how to explain the difference to users ←
18:58:52 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
18:58:52 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
18:58:58 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
18:59:01 <ivan> ack bijan
Ivan Herman: ack bijan ←
18:59:02 <MartinD> Ian: doesn't seem to be so diff... skolemizing on RHS should be visible even in owl 1.0
Ian Horrocks: doesn't seem to be so diff... skolemizing on RHS should be visible even in owl 1.0 ←
18:59:14 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
18:59:30 <MartinD> Bijan: agrees with alan that they are user-visible
Bijan Parsia: agrees with alan that they are user-visible ←
19:00:36 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:00:56 <MartinD> Bijan: Q to Jeremy = what means "compelling argument" for/against something? e.g. many users wanting to use rdf graphs in owl reasoners, this is a powerful case, why not compelling
Bijan Parsia: Q to Jeremy = what means "compelling argument" for/against something? e.g. many users wanting to use rdf graphs in owl reasoners, this is a powerful case, why not compelling ←
19:01:22 <MartinD> Bijan: similarly, sparql relationships, etc. = these are fairly important cases
Bijan Parsia: similarly, sparql relationships, etc. = these are fairly important cases ←
19:01:26 <jeremy> ack jeremy
Jeremy Carroll: ack jeremy ←
19:01:26 <Zakim> jeremy, you wanted to respond to parsing suggestion ....
Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy, you wanted to respond to parsing suggestion .... ←
19:01:50 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:02:27 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
19:02:43 <MartinD> Jeremy: to bijan first... what I havven't seen is how reworking semantics affects skolemization, is it necesary? (???)
Jeremy Carroll: to bijan first... what I havven't seen is how reworking semantics affects skolemization, is it necesary? (???) ←
19:03:05 <bmotik> q-
Boris Motik: q- ←
19:03:09 <MartinD> Bijan: how to propose arbitrary b-nodes from rdf, what should they give/
Bijan Parsia: how to propose arbitrary b-nodes from rdf, what should they give/ ←
19:03:14 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:03:18 <MartinD> Jeremy: no answer at this point...
Jeremy Carroll: no answer at this point... ←
19:03:39 <MartinD> Jeremy: to Boris.... finding that position of a value, at this moment...
Jeremy Carroll: to Boris.... finding that position of a value, at this moment... ←
19:03:51 <MartinD> Jeremy: there is some rationale behind it
Jeremy Carroll: there is some rationale behind it ←
19:03:51 <bijan> B
Bijan Parsia: B ←
19:05:17 <MartinD> Jeff: maybe somebody can explain what this means for the users/end users... so that more people can join the debate?
Scribe problem: the name 'Jeff' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Jeff: maybe somebody can explain what this means for the users/end users... so that more people can join the debate? ←
19:05:18 <alanr> q+ to say fwiw, it's always harder to explain existential semantics in my experience
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to say fwiw, it's always harder to explain existential semantics in my experience ←
19:05:34 <DougL> (And do that between now and next week, offline, and revisit it next week?)
Doug Lenat: (And do that between now and next week, offline, and revisit it next week?) ←
19:05:36 <MartinD> Ian: lot of explanation of this, maybe a bit technical...
Ian Horrocks: lot of explanation of this, maybe a bit technical... ←
19:05:49 <bijan> Basically, jeremy, any way that tells me how to handle in an rdf sensible way arbitrary patterns of bnodes meets my interest in this
Bijan Parsia: Basically, jeremy, any way that tells me how to handle in an rdf sensible way arbitrary patterns of bnodes meets my interest in this ←
19:05:53 <MartinD> Jeff: if people write owl 1.1 axioms, what are the key diffs for THEM
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Unknown Jeff: if people write owl 1.1 axioms, what are the key diffs for THEM ←
19:05:57 <bijan> I have no need to change the semantics per se
Bijan Parsia: I have no need to change the semantics per se ←
19:06:18 <bijan> I.e., my interst isn't in changing the semantics, but service this interest
Bijan Parsia: I.e., my interst isn't in changing the semantics, but service this interest ←
19:06:22 <bmotik> I already did something like this
Boris Motik: I already did something like this ←
19:06:26 <MartinD> Ian: could Jeremy prepare some examples? or Boris? or ???
Ian Horrocks: could Jeff prepare some examples? or Boris? or ??? ←
19:06:40 <alanr> We will need such an explanation if we make the change for the documentation - so effort not wasted
Alan Ruttenberg: We will need such an explanation if we make the change for the documentation - so effort not wasted ←
19:06:41 <jeremy> s/Jeremy/Jeff/
19:06:51 <alanr> ack alanr
Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←
19:06:51 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to say fwiw, it's always harder to explain existential semantics in my experience
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to say fwiw, it's always harder to explain existential semantics in my experience ←
19:06:52 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:06:56 <Zakim> -JeffP
Zakim IRC Bot: -JeffP ←
19:07:00 <ivan> ack JeffP
Ivan Herman: ack JeffP ←
19:07:00 <Zakim> JeffP, you wanted to ask how to explain the difference to users
Zakim IRC Bot: JeffP, you wanted to ask how to explain the difference to users ←
19:07:27 <MartinD> it's hard to explain existential issue with b-nodes...
it's hard to explain existential issue with b-nodes... ←
19:07:36 <bijan> In the sparql working group, people like, Oracles Fred Zemke, clearly believed that bnodes were singluar terms.
Bijan Parsia: In the sparql working group, people like, Oracles Fred Zemke, clearly believed that bnodes were singluar terms. ←
19:07:41 <MartinD> Ian: some examples would be useful to explain people what is this about
Ian Horrocks: some examples would be useful to explain people what is this about ←
19:07:45 <Zakim> +??P1
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←
19:08:04 <MartinD> ACTION: Jeff to lead effort on formulating some examples on b-nodes issues and their impact on users
ACTION: Jeff to lead effort on formulating some examples on b-nodes issues and their impact on users ←
19:08:04 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-67 - Lead effort on formulating some examples on b-nodes issues and their impact on users [on Jeff Pan - due 2008-01-23].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-67 - Lead effort on formulating some examples on b-nodes issues and their impact on users [on Jeff Pan - due 2008-01-23]. ←
19:08:07 <JeffP> zakim, ??P1 is me
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Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown JeffP: zakim, ??P1 is me ←
19:08:07 <Zakim> +JeffP; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +JeffP; got it ←
19:08:34 <bmotik> JeffP, I already wrote an example e-mail: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Nov/0177.html
Boris Motik: JeffP, I already wrote an example e-mail: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Nov/0177.html ←
19:08:38 <MartinD> Ian: good there was lot of effort on this.. and also some new ideas, suggestions
Ian Horrocks: good there was lot of effort on this.. and also some new ideas, suggestions ←
19:08:47 <jeremy> action: jeremy to respond to boris's parsing idea by e-mail
ACTION: jeremy to respond to boris's parsing idea by e-mail ←
19:08:47 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-68 - Respond to boris's parsing idea by e-mail [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2008-01-23].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-68 - Respond to boris's parsing idea by e-mail [on Jeremy Carroll - due 2008-01-23]. ←
19:08:53 <JeffP> bmotik, thanks for the pointer!
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Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown JeffP: bmotik, thanks for the pointer! ←
19:08:59 <MartinD> Topic: Issues
19:09:12 <MartinD> Ian: no raised issues on agenda, no editorial either
Ian Horrocks: no raised issues on agenda, no editorial either ←
19:09:19 <MartinD> Ian: some to move onward
Ian Horrocks: some to move onward ←
19:09:43 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
19:09:43 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
19:09:53 <MartinD> Ian: ...syntax for allDisjoint... seemed simple, but complicated that if we have mapping for this, we should also have them for...
Ian Horrocks: ...syntax for allDisjoint... seemed simple, but complicated that if we have mapping for this, we should also have them for... ←
19:09:56 <pfps> q+
19:10:02 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
19:10:02 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
19:10:11 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:10:19 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
19:10:19 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
19:10:45 <MartinD> pfps: no need to go further in this discussion, syntax adapted to those few things that can be used a lot, not proposing extra syntax that do not require this
Peter Patel-Schneider: no need to go further in this discussion, syntax adapted to those few things that can be used a lot, not proposing extra syntax that do not require this ←
19:10:56 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
19:10:56 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
19:11:03 <MartinD> pfps: seems to be a reasonable resolution, unless people disagree
Peter Patel-Schneider: seems to be a reasonable resolution, unless people disagree ←
19:11:06 <jeremy> q+ to ask what we have?
Jeremy Carroll: q+ to ask what we have? ←
19:11:10 <bijan> As long as we have allDisjoint, I'm happy
Bijan Parsia: As long as we have allDisjoint, I'm happy ←
19:11:11 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:11:13 <pfps> q-
19:11:16 <MartinD> Ian: maybe we should resolve it?
Ian Horrocks: maybe we should resolve it? ←
19:11:17 <bmotik> I didn't understand what Peter just said.
Boris Motik: I didn't understand what Peter just said. ←
19:11:19 <IanH> ack pfps
Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←
19:11:28 <MartinD> Jeremy: which special constructs do we mean?
Jeremy Carroll: which special constructs do we mean? ←
19:11:29 <bijan> AllDijsoint, AllDifferent?
Bijan Parsia: AllDijsoint, AllDifferent? ←
19:11:35 <pfps> from owl 1.0, allDifferent, from owl 1.1 allDisjoint
Peter Patel-Schneider: from owl 1.0, allDifferent, from owl 1.1 allDisjoint ←
19:11:41 <MartinD> Ian: difIndividual, sameIndividual, etc.
Ian Horrocks: difIndividual, sameIndividual, etc. ←
19:11:42 <pfps> ... that's all
Peter Patel-Schneider: ... that's all ←
19:12:06 <bmotik> Peter, did you mean really making the syntax round-trippable, or do you think that we should just close issue as-is without mapping the syntax round-trippable?
Boris Motik: Peter, did you mean really making the syntax round-trippable, or do you think that we should just close issue as-is without mapping the syntax round-trippable? ←
19:12:11 <MartinD> Ian: for allDisjoint there is aconstruct in semantics, there is nothing in mapping doc?
Ian Horrocks: for allDisjoint there is aconstruct in semantics, there is nothing in mapping doc? ←
19:12:12 <mschnei> Question: do we already have "allDisjointProperties"? Is this useful?
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Unknown Question: do we already have "allDisjointProperties"? Is this useful? [ Scribe Assist by Unknown mschnei ] ←
19:12:14 <pfps> yes, i think
Peter Patel-Schneider: yes, i think ←
19:12:22 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
19:12:24 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
19:12:24 <Zakim> pfps was not muted, pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was not muted, pfps ←
19:12:45 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
19:13:03 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
19:13:03 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
19:13:05 <MartinD> pfps: all disjoints always had structural.abstract syntax...
Peter Patel-Schneider: all disjoints always had structural.abstract syntax... ←
19:13:16 <Zakim> -Carsten
Zakim IRC Bot: -Carsten ←
19:13:22 <MartinD> pfps: all we want is special for allDifferent
Peter Patel-Schneider: all we want is special for allDifferent ←
19:13:25 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:13:37 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
19:13:38 <bijan> q+
Bijan Parsia: q+ ←
19:14:01 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:14:05 <ivan> ack jeremy
Ivan Herman: ack jeremy ←
19:14:05 <Zakim> jeremy, you wanted to ask what we have?
Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy, you wanted to ask what we have? ←
19:14:18 <mschnei> not only roundtripping, but also triple bloat
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Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown mschnei: not only roundtripping, but also triple bloat ←
19:14:19 <MartinD> Ian: difficulty with proposed solution is that if there is only structural syntax, no corresponding serialization, we may get to round-trippable problem
Ian Horrocks: difficulty with proposed solution is that if there is only structural syntax, no corresponding serialization, we may get to round-trippable problem ←
19:14:31 <MartinD> Ian: what we have now is what we had in owl 1.0
Ian Horrocks: what we have now is what we had in owl 1.0 ←
19:14:43 <MartinD> Jeremy: disjoint Obj Props is new here...
Jeremy Carroll: disjoint Obj Props is new here... ←
19:14:44 <mschnei> triple bloat at least for different or disjoint
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Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown mschnei: triple bloat at least for different or disjoint ←
19:14:45 <bijan> disjointClasses:= 'DisjointClasses' '(' { annotation } description description { description } ')
Bijan Parsia: disjointClasses:= 'DisjointClasses' '(' { annotation } description description { description } ') ←
19:14:58 <bijan> DisjointClasses(c1 ... cn)
Bijan Parsia: DisjointClasses(c1 ... cn) ←
19:14:58 <bijan> T(ci) owl:disjointWith T(cj) 1 i, j n, i j
Bijan Parsia: T(ci) owl:disjointWith T(cj) 1 i, j n, i j ←
19:15:02 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:15:36 <MartinD> pfps: started with a fact that something that needs to be expressed... where it got complicated is when we brough round-tripping... should we be accountable f
Alan Ruttenberg: started with a fact that something that needs to be expressed... where it got complicated is when we brough round-tripping... should we be accountable f ←
19:15:53 <alanr> s/pfps/alanr
19:15:57 <jeremy> DifferentIndividuals(iID1 ... iIDn) T(iIDi) owl:differentFrom T(iIDj) 1 ? i, j ? n, i ? j
Jeremy Carroll: DifferentIndividuals(iID1 ... iIDn) T(iIDi) owl:differentFrom T(iIDj) 1 ? i, j ? n, i ? j ←
19:16:01 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:16:06 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
19:16:06 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
19:16:08 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
19:16:08 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
19:16:28 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
19:16:28 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
19:16:38 <MartinD> Boris: what is peter's proposal? drop round-tripping, extend vocabulary? what is against extended vocabulary?
Boris Motik: what is peter's proposal? drop round-tripping, extend vocabulary? what is against extended vocabulary? ←
19:16:45 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
19:16:45 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan ←
19:16:46 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
19:16:46 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
19:16:56 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
19:17:03 <bmotik> q-
Boris Motik: q- ←
19:17:06 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
19:17:27 <jeremy> (I am supporting AllDisjoint and AllDifferent)
Jeremy Carroll: (I am supporting AllDisjoint and AllDifferent) ←
19:17:34 <bmotik> +1 for n^2, but I believe that we need others as well
Boris Motik: +1 for n^2, but I believe that we need others as well ←
19:17:42 <alanr> alldifferent already existed
Alan Ruttenberg: alldifferent already existed ←
19:17:55 <MartinD> pfps: should we give up on round-tripping... to some extent eyes
Peter Patel-Schneider: should we give up on round-tripping... to some extent eyes ←
19:17:58 <alanr> or take up roundtripping as a separate issue?
Alan Ruttenberg: or take up roundtripping as a separate issue? ←
19:18:18 <bijan> bijan: I just want to make sure that n-ary Disjointclasses in functional syntax gets mapped to an analogous structure in rdf (an not n^2 disjointWiths)
Bijan Parsia: I just want to make sure that n-ary Disjointclasses in functional syntax gets mapped to an analogous structure in rdf (an not n^2 disjointWiths) [ Scribe Assist by Bijan Parsia ] ←
19:18:21 <bmotik> On man...
Boris Motik: On man... ←
19:18:23 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
19:18:23 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
19:18:24 <MartinD> ian: what's the problem of adding exactly that construct in mapping syntax? what is against it?
Ian Horrocks: what's the problem of adding exactly that construct in mapping syntax? what is against it? ←
19:18:24 <bmotik> Oh man....
Boris Motik: Oh man.... ←
19:18:29 <pfps> zakim, mute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←
19:18:29 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←
19:18:35 <alanr> q?
Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←
19:18:41 <mschnei> another problem not mentioned: complete serialization needed until you know that you have all triples collected
Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown mschnei: another problem not mentioned: complete serialization needed until you know that you have all triples collected ←
19:19:03 <jeremy> ian: what's wrong with mapping all n-ary constructs; pfps: bloat; jeremy: +1
Ian Horrocks: what's wrong with mapping all n-ary constructs; pfps: bloat; jeremy: +1 [ Scribe Assist by Jeremy Carroll ] ←
19:19:03 <mschnei> this would not be a problem, if all the classes would be in a single list
Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown mschnei: this would not be a problem, if all the classes would be in a single list ←
19:19:05 <MartinD> Ian: people have diff opinions, there was a lot discussion on this
Ian Horrocks: people have diff opinions, there was a lot discussion on this ←
19:19:06 <bijan> I suggest an web based survey of the wg?
Bijan Parsia: I suggest an web based survey of the wg? ←
19:19:16 <MartinD> Alan: isolate changes necessary to round-tripping...
Alan Ruttenberg: isolate changes necessary to round-tripping... ←
19:19:17 <bmotik> q+
Boris Motik: q+ ←
19:19:29 <bijan> q-
Bijan Parsia: q- ←
19:19:32 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:19:39 <MartinD> Alan: treat that separately and we can pay more attention to it
Alan Ruttenberg: treat that separately and we can pay more attention to it ←
19:19:41 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←
19:19:41 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←
19:19:42 <ivan> ack bmotik
Ivan Herman: ack bmotik ←
19:19:57 <MartinD> Boris: is round-tripping important? pls. vote....
Boris Motik: is round-tripping important? pls. vote.... ←
19:20:07 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
19:20:09 <bijan> +1 but weakly
Bijan Parsia: +1 but weakly ←
19:20:10 <mschnei> +1
Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown mschnei: +1 ←
19:20:11 <bcuencag> +1
19:20:12 <jeremy> -0
Jeremy Carroll: -0 ←
19:20:15 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me
Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←
19:20:15 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←
19:20:15 <DougL> -1
Doug Lenat: -1 ←
19:20:15 <pfps> round tripping is important, but not to the point of ...
Peter Patel-Schneider: round tripping is important, but not to the point of ... ←
19:20:16 <ivan> 0
Ivan Herman: 0 ←
19:20:17 <JeffP> 0
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown JeffP: 0 ←
19:20:18 <MartinD> 0
0 ←
19:20:19 <alanr> +0 think it is worthwhile, but should be considered against cost
Alan Ruttenberg: +0 think it is worthwhile, but should be considered against cost ←
19:20:21 <sandro> +0
Sandro Hawke: +0 ←
19:20:21 <msmith> +1 round-tripping in general, but ok with just in OWL/XML
Michael Smith: +1 round-tripping in general, but ok with just in OWL/XML ←
19:20:25 <pfps> +0.epsilon
Peter Patel-Schneider: +0.epsilon ←
19:20:27 <IanH> +1
Ian Horrocks: +1 ←
19:20:32 <Achille> +1
Achille Fokoue: +1 ←
19:20:41 <DougL> (that was clear from the way you phrased the question)
Doug Lenat: (that was clear from the way you phrased the question) ←
19:20:42 <pfps> of course, we could round-trip into XML
Peter Patel-Schneider: of course, we could round-trip into XML ←
19:20:48 <MartinD> Ian: seems to be worthwhile investigating round-tripping = action?
Ian Horrocks: seems to be worthwhile investigating round-tripping = action? ←
19:20:59 <bmotik> I can do this
Boris Motik: I can do this ←
19:21:11 <MartinD> Ian: initial input to who is affected, what impact it has, ....
Ian Horrocks: initial input to who is affected, what impact it has, .... ←
19:21:28 <bmotik> I'll open a new issue, OK?
Boris Motik: I'll open a new issue, OK? ←
19:21:32 <alanr> yes
Alan Ruttenberg: yes ←
19:21:40 <alanr> or an action
Alan Ruttenberg: or an action ←
19:21:50 <MartinD> ACTION: Boris to look at the round-tripping problem and collate initial material for/against it
ACTION: Boris to look at the round-tripping problem and collate initial material for/against it ←
19:21:50 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-69 - Look at the round-tripping problem and collate initial material for/against it [on Boris Motik - due 2008-01-23].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-69 - Look at the round-tripping problem and collate initial material for/against it [on Boris Motik - due 2008-01-23]. ←
19:21:59 <DougL> good idea
Doug Lenat: good idea ←
19:22:00 <pfps> +1
19:22:03 <bmotik> +1
Boris Motik: +1 ←
19:22:05 <bijan> +1
Bijan Parsia: +1 ←
19:22:07 <MartinD> Ian: should we resolve issue 2 and go for a new issue?
Ian Horrocks: should we resolve ISSUE-2 and go for a new issue? ←
19:22:21 <pfps> q+
19:22:23 <MartinD> Topic: discussion on issue 51 (quick)
19:22:27 <pfps> zakim, unmute me
Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←
19:22:27 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←
19:22:31 <alanr> q+
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←
19:22:33 <MartinD> Ian: language name... some de-facto decisions
Ian Horrocks: language name... some de-facto decisions ←
19:22:37 <pfps> q+ OWL 1.1
Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ OWL 1.1 ←
19:22:45 <MartinD> Ian: called it owl 1.1.... any thoughts?
Ian Horrocks: called it owl 1.1.... any thoughts? ←
19:22:48 <jeremy> q- OWL
Jeremy Carroll: q- OWL ←
19:22:52 <jeremy> q- 1.1
Jeremy Carroll: q- 1.1 ←
19:22:55 <ivan> ack pfps
Ivan Herman: ack pfps ←
19:23:09 <MartinD> pfps: wanted to argue for 1.1.....
Peter Patel-Schneider: wanted to argue for 1.1..... ←
19:23:17 <bijan> q+ to argue for OWL
Bijan Parsia: q+ to argue for OWL ←
19:23:20 <alanr> q+ to agree with OWL1.1
Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to agree with OWL1.1 ←
19:23:26 <sandro> q+ to say Peter is Very Pedantic
Sandro Hawke: q+ to say Peter is Very Pedantic ←
19:23:27 <pfps> q-
19:23:35 <sandro> q-
Sandro Hawke: q- ←
19:23:37 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:23:45 <IanH> ack alanr
Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←
19:23:45 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to agree with OWL1.1
Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to agree with OWL1.1 ←
19:24:01 <MartinD> alan: we chose 1.1 to continue as a product line
Alan Ruttenberg: we chose 1.1 to continue as a product line ←
19:24:22 <MartinD> Alan: is this still an issue? esp. only Jim seemed to have objected...
Alan Ruttenberg: is this still an issue? esp. only Jim seemed to have objected... ←
19:24:27 <pfps> q+
19:24:29 <jeremy> q+ to ask for W3C position?
Jeremy Carroll: q+ to ask for W3C position? ←
19:24:39 <pfps> q-
19:24:43 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:24:51 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
19:24:51 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←
19:24:52 <MartinD> Ian: straw poll on what people think now?
Ian Horrocks: straw poll on what people think now? ←
19:25:11 <pfps> +1 OWL 1.1
Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 OWL 1.1 ←
19:25:13 <MartinD> Alan: people asked whether this is still an issue.... people 'vote'
Alan Ruttenberg: people asked whether this is still an issue.... people 'vote' ←
19:25:21 <JeffP> +1 OWL1.1
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown JeffP: +1 OWL1.1 ←
19:25:22 <DougL> 0
Doug Lenat: 0 ←
19:25:23 <bijan> -1
Bijan Parsia: -1 ←
19:25:24 <Achille> +1 OWL 1.1
Achille Fokoue: +1 OWL 1.1 ←
19:25:25 <alanr> +1
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←
19:25:27 <bmotik> +1 to OWL 1.1
Boris Motik: +1 to OWL 1.1 ←
19:25:28 <zwu2> +1 OWL 1.1
19:25:30 <bijan> -1 weakly
Bijan Parsia: -1 weakly ←
19:25:33 <mschnei> +1 OWL 1.1
Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'mschnei' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown mschnei: +1 OWL 1.1 ←
19:25:39 <alanr> +1 weakly :)
Alan Ruttenberg: +1 weakly :) ←
19:25:39 <bcuencag> +1 OWL 1.1
Bernardo Cuenca Grau: +1 OWL 1.1 ←
19:25:42 <MartinD> 0
0 ←
19:25:44 <jeremy> strong 0
Jeremy Carroll: strong 0 ←
19:25:46 <msmith> 0
Michael Smith: 0 ←
19:25:56 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:25:58 <alanr> owl, weakly
Alan Ruttenberg: owl, weakly ←
19:26:05 <Elisa> -1 due to significant syntax changes - which is one of Jim's points
Scribe problem: the name 'Elisa' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Elisa' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Elisa: -1 due to significant syntax changes - which is one of Jim's points ←
19:26:27 <alanr> elisa: Is there an alternative proposal?
Scribe problem: the name 'elisa' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown elisa: Is there an alternative proposal? [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←
19:26:31 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:26:47 <bijan> q-
Bijan Parsia: q- ←
19:26:50 <bijan> zakim, mute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←
19:26:50 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←
19:26:53 <Elisa> Not from me, but perhaps from Jim
Scribe problem: the name 'Elisa' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Elisa' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Elisa: Not from me, but perhaps from Jim ←
19:26:54 <IanH> ack bijan
Ian Horrocks: ack bijan ←
19:26:56 <MartinD> Bijan: can live with 1.1... maybe just call it OWL... maybe hard to define how much needs to go into ".1"
Bijan Parsia: can live with 1.1... maybe just call it OWL... maybe hard to define how much needs to go into ".1" ←
19:26:59 <IanH> ack jeremuy
Ian Horrocks: ack jeremuy ←
19:27:01 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:27:08 <IanH> ack jeremy
Ian Horrocks: ack jeremy ←
19:27:08 <Zakim> jeremy, you wanted to ask for W3C position?
Zakim IRC Bot: jeremy, you wanted to ask for W3C position? ←
19:27:12 <IanH> q?
Ian Horrocks: q? ←
19:27:19 <Elisa> 2.0 would be better than 1.1 given syntax changes
Scribe problem: the name 'Elisa' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Elisa' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Elisa: 2.0 would be better than 1.1 given syntax changes ←
19:27:33 <Elisa> and I agree with Jeremy's analysis
Scribe problem: the name 'Elisa' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Elisa' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Elisa: and I agree with Jeremy's analysis ←
19:27:36 <alanr> tks
Alan Ruttenberg: tks ←
19:27:49 <MartinD> Jeremy: this is perhaps a policy question... should we use "owl" as atechnology, or is this a "separate" technology? see w3c position
Jeremy Carroll: this is perhaps a policy question... should we use "owl" as atechnology, or is this a "separate" technology? see w3c position ←
19:28:05 <bijan> Elisa, you realize that Pellet, using an OWL 1.1 parser, can pass all the OWL 1.0 test cases that it passed before?
Bijan Parsia: Elisa, you realize that Pellet, using an OWL 1.1 parser, can pass all the OWL 1.0 test cases that it passed before? ←
19:28:11 <bijan> (and semantics)?
Bijan Parsia: (and semantics)? ←
19:28:23 <Elisa> yes, but that position is not true from an OMG perspective
Scribe problem: the name 'Elisa' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Elisa' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Elisa: yes, but that position is not true from an OMG perspective ←
19:28:24 <MartinD> Ian: any other business
Ian Horrocks: any other business ←
19:28:30 <MartinD> Topic: AOB
19:28:36 <pfps> which issues for next week?
Peter Patel-Schneider: which issues for next week? ←
19:28:40 <bijan> Hmm.
Bijan Parsia: Hmm. ←
19:28:40 <MartinD> Ian: agenda for next week available online
Ian Horrocks: agenda for next week available online ←
19:29:01 <MartinD> Ian: has quite some info in, so there is time to look at it and think about issues, discussion
Ian Horrocks: has quite some info in, so there is time to look at it and think about issues, discussion ←
19:29:08 <pfps> punning
Peter Patel-Schneider: punning ←
19:29:11 <Elisa> If you think about it from a graphical notation (i.e. UML profile) view, there are significant changes
Scribe problem: the name 'Elisa' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'Elisa' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown Elisa: If you think about it from a graphical notation (i.e. UML profile) view, there are significant changes ←
19:29:30 <MartinD> Ian: next week talking about puninng, so pls. look at that
Ian Horrocks: next week talking about puninng, so pls. look at that ←
19:29:35 <bijan> zakim, unmute me
Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←
19:29:35 <Zakim> bijan was not muted, bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: bijan was not muted, bijan ←
19:29:54 <MartinD> Alan: suggests a check on issue times...
Alan Ruttenberg: suggests a check on issue times... ←
19:30:12 <Zakim> -bijan
Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan ←
19:30:13 <MartinD> Ian: concluded.....
Ian Horrocks: concluded..... ←
19:30:13 <JeffP> bye
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Scribe problem: the name 'JeffP' does not match any of the 18 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Ivan Herman Alan Ruttenberg Peter Patel-Schneider Sandro Hawke Ian Horrocks Michael Smith Boris Motik Martin Dzbor Unknown Carsten Doug Lenat Bernardo Cuenca Grau Achille Fokoue Jeremy Carroll Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown JeffP: bye ←
19:30:14 <Zakim> -Zhe
Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe ←
19:30:15 <Zakim> -bmotik
Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←
19:30:16 <pfps> bijan: read the primer and expanded syntax documents
Bijan Parsia: read the primer and expanded syntax documents [ Scribe Assist by Peter Patel-Schneider ] ←
19:30:16 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
19:30:17 <Zakim> -DougL
Zakim IRC Bot: -DougL ←
19:30:19 <Zakim> -jeremy
Zakim IRC Bot: -jeremy ←
19:30:20 <Zakim> -Ivan
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ivan ←
19:30:21 <Zakim> -JeffP
Zakim IRC Bot: -JeffP ←
19:30:23 <Zakim> -msmith
Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←
19:30:23 <Zakim> -IanH
Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH ←
19:30:25 <Zakim> -Elisa_Kendall
Zakim IRC Bot: -Elisa_Kendall ←
19:30:27 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
19:30:29 <Zakim> -Achille
Zakim IRC Bot: -Achille ←
19:30:31 <Zakim> -pfps
Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←
19:30:35 <Zakim> -bcuencag
Zakim IRC Bot: -bcuencag ←
19:30:42 <Zakim> -MartinD
Zakim IRC Bot: -MartinD ←
19:31:02 <MartinD> RRSAgent, generate minutes
RRSAgent, generate minutes ←
19:31:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-owl-minutes.html MartinD
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/01/16-owl-minutes.html MartinD ←
19:31:14 <sandro> MartinD, http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.16/Minutes is ready for you to clean up.
Sandro Hawke: MartinD, http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.16/Minutes is ready for you to clean up. ←
19:35:40 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, alanr, in SW_OWL()12:00PM
Zakim IRC Bot: disconnecting the lone participant, alanr, in SW_OWL()12:00PM ←
19:35:42 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended ←
19:35:43 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.212.239.aaaa, alanr, bijan, Ivan, pfps, Sandro, +8652aabb, +1.202.408.aacc, IanH, +9082aadd, msmith, MartinD, bmotik, +49.351.4.aaee, Carsten, DougL, +018652aaff,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.212.239.aaaa, alanr, bijan, Ivan, pfps, Sandro, +8652aabb, +1.202.408.aacc, IanH, +9082aadd, msmith, MartinD, bmotik, +49.351.4.aaee, Carsten, DougL, +018652aaff, ←
19:35:45 <Zakim> ... bcuencag, Achille, jeremy, +1.603.897.aagg, JeffP, Zhe, [IPcaller], Elisa_Kendall
Zakim IRC Bot: ... bcuencag, Achille, jeremy, +1.603.897.aagg, JeffP, Zhe, [IPcaller], Elisa_Kendall ←
Formatted by CommonScribe