Meeting Record

OWL Working Group Teleconference

Minutes of 02 January 2008

Present

Bijan Parsia, Rinke Hoekstra, Ian Horrocks, Boris Motik, Sandro Hawke, Michael Smith, Alan Ruttenberg, Unknown jjc, Zhe Wu, Peter Patel-Schneider

Chair

Ian Horrocks

Scribe

Bijan Parsia

IRC Log

Original

Resolutions

close (as RESOLVED) Issue 13 as described in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/0181.html (see Section 4.2 of Syntax) link
close (as REJECTED) Issue 20 and absorb it into Issue 16 link
close (as RESOLVED) Issue 43 as per email http://www.w3.org/mid/BDC59251-1FB7-4F70-8900-E7E38FC86BA4%2540comlab.ox.ac.uk issue is already addressed by OWL 1.1 link
close issue 49 link

Topics

Admin
Previous minutes
Action item review
Proposals to resolve issues
agenda amendement item: Short name issue
Raised Issues
Resolved Editorial Issues

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17:57:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/02-owl-irc

RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/01/02-owl-irc ←

17:57:06 <bijan2> uhm

Bijan Parsia: uhm ←

17:57:17 <bmotik> You have to do /invite Zakim

Boris Motik: You have to do /invite Zakim ←

17:57:17 <bijan2> Ok, you did the /invite thing right?

Bijan Parsia: Ok, you did the /invite thing right? ←

17:57:23 <bijan2> Ok, you did the /invite thing right?I wonder why that didn't work for me

Bijan Parsia: Ok, you did the /invite thing right?I wonder why that didn't work for me ←

17:57:27 <bijan2> I was doing i t:)

Bijan Parsia: I was doing i t:) ←

17:57:54 <bijan> zakim, this is owl

Bijan Parsia: zakim, this is owl ←

17:57:54 <Zakim> ok, bijan; that matches SW_OWL()12:00PM

Zakim IRC Bot: ok, bijan; that matches SW_OWL()12:00PM ←

17:58:17 <Zakim> +Rinke

Zakim IRC Bot: +Rinke ←

17:58:36 <bijan> zakim, who is here?

Bijan Parsia: zakim, who is here? ←

17:58:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P9, Rinke

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see ??P9, Rinke ←

17:58:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng ←

17:58:46 <bijan> zakim, ??P9 is me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, ??P9 is me ←

17:58:46 <Zakim> +bijan; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bijan; got it ←

17:58:47 <Zakim> +??P12

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P12 ←

17:58:56 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

17:58:56 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

17:59:05 <Zakim> +??P13

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P13 ←

17:59:06 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

17:59:07 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

17:59:15 <sandro> RRSAgent, pointer?

Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, pointer? ←

17:59:15 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2008/01/02-owl-irc#T17-59-15

RRSAgent IRC Bot: See http://www.w3.org/2008/01/02-owl-irc#T17-59-15 ←

17:59:21 <bmotik> Zakim, ??p13 is me

Boris Motik: Zakim, ??p13 is me ←

17:59:21 <Zakim> +bmotik; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +bmotik; got it ←

17:59:24 <bijan> zakim, mute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, mute me ←

17:59:24 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

17:59:36 <Zakim> +Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←

17:59:47 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←

17:59:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, ??P12, bmotik, Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, ??P12, bmotik, Sandro ←

17:59:47 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←

17:59:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng ←

17:59:50 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←

18:00:01 <IanH> zakim, ??P12 is IanH

Ian Horrocks: zakim, ??P12 is IanH ←

18:00:01 <Zakim> +IanH; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +IanH; got it ←

18:00:04 <Zakim> +msmith

Zakim IRC Bot: +msmith ←

18:00:22 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←

18:00:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith ←

18:00:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng ←

18:00:41 <Zakim> + +1.617.253.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.617.253.aaaa ←

18:01:09 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←

18:01:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith, +1.617.253.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith, +1.617.253.aaaa ←

18:01:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng ←

18:01:44 <alanr> zakim, who is here?

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, who is here? ←

18:01:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith, +1.617.253.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith, +1.617.253.aaaa ←

18:01:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see alanr, IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see alanr, IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng ←

18:01:52 <alanr> zakim, aaaa is me

Alan Ruttenberg: zakim, aaaa is me ←

18:01:52 <Zakim> +alanr; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +alanr; got it ←

18:02:13 <Zakim> +??P1

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P1 ←

18:02:21 <jjc> Zakim, ??P1 is me

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 46 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown jjc: Zakim, ??P1 is me ←

18:02:21 <Zakim> +jjc; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +jjc; got it ←

18:02:26 <jjc> Zakim, mute me

Unknown jjc: Zakim, mute me ←

18:02:26 <Zakim> jjc should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc should now be muted ←

18:02:46 <Zakim> +Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: +Zhe ←

18:03:10 <Zhe> zakim, who is here?

Zhe Wu: zakim, who is here? ←

18:03:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith, alanr, jjc (muted), Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith, alanr, jjc (muted), Zhe ←

18:03:13 <Zakim> On IRC I see alanr, IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see alanr, IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng ←

18:04:24 <Rinke> or Zhe?

Rinke Hoekstra: or Zhe? ←

18:04:33 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

Bijan Parsia: zakim, unmute me ←

18:04:33 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

18:04:40 <Zakim> +??P17

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P17 ←

18:04:50 <pfps> zakim, ??P17 is me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, ??P17 is me ←

18:04:50 <Zakim> +pfps; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +pfps; got it ←

18:05:22 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:05:22 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←

18:05:42 <bijan> Scribe: Bijan Parsia

(Scribe set to Bijan Parsia)

18:05:48 <bijan> Scribenick: bijan

18:05:54 <pfps> is that an action on Zhe?

Peter Patel-Schneider: is that an action on Zhe? ←

18:06:03 <bijan> zakim, mute me

zakim, mute me ←

18:06:03 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

18:06:20 <bijan> TOPIC: Admin

1. Admin

18:06:28 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←

18:06:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith, alanr, jjc (muted), Zhe, pfps (muted)

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith, alanr, jjc (muted), Zhe, pfps (muted) ←

18:06:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see alanr, IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see alanr, IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng ←

18:06:58 <bijan> Agenda amendment: Discussion of short name issues

Agenda amendment: Discussion of short name issues ←

18:07:17 <sandro> Present: bijan, Rinke, IanH, bmotik, Sandro, msmith, alanr, jjc, Zhe, pfps

Scribe problem: the name 'jjc' does not match any of the 43 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Achille Fokoue Alan Ruttenberg Anne Cregan Bernardo Cuenca Grau Bijan Parsia Boris Motik Conrad Bock Deborah McGuinness Doug Lenat Elisa Kendall Enrico Franconi Evan Wallace Evren Sirin Fabian Neuhaus Fabien Gandon Giorgos Stamou Giorgos Stoilos Ian Horrocks Ivan Herman James Hendler Jeff Pan Jeremy Carroll Joanne Luciano Markus Krötzsch Martin Dzbor Michael Sintek Michael Smith Olivier Corby Pascal Hitzler Peter Haase Peter Patel-Schneider Ratnesh Sahay Rinke Hoekstra Sandro Hawke Steve Battle Suzette Stoutenburg Tommie Meyer Uli Sattler Vassilis Tzouvaras Vipul Kashyap Vit Novacek Vojtech Svatek Zhe Wu

18:07:41 <Zakim> +Elisa_Kendall

Zakim IRC Bot: +Elisa_Kendall ←

18:07:57 <bijan> Meeting: OWL Working Group Teleconference

18:08:02 <bijan> Chair: Ian Horrocks

18:09:11 <bijan> Alan: I closed Issue 13 so can be removed from the agenda

Alan Ruttenberg: I closed ISSUE-13 so can be removed from the agenda ←

18:09:36 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:09:36 <Zakim> pfps was already muted, pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was already muted, pfps ←

18:09:40 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

18:09:40 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←

18:09:42 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ ←

18:09:50 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:10:03 <alanr> http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2007.12.19/Minutes

Alan Ruttenberg: http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2007.12.19/Minutes ←

18:10:14 <bijan> Ian: We're going to be much stricter about enforcing the time limits for discussion listed in the agenda. If you think more time is needed for some item, propose so during the agenda amendments portion of the Admin topics.

Ian Horrocks: We're going to be much stricter about enforcing the time limits for discussion listed in the agenda. If you think more time is needed for some item, propose so during the agenda amendments portion of the Admin topics. ←

18:10:19 <msmith> also, the previous minutes cleanup was *just* finished

Michael Smith: also, the previous minutes cleanup was *just* finished ←

18:10:28 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:10:28 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←

18:10:30 <bijan> Ian: Otherwise, if we run over, it'll go to email.

Ian Horrocks: Otherwise, if we run over, it'll go to email. ←

18:10:38 <Zakim> + +1.518.608.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.518.608.aabb ←

18:10:43 <bijan> Topic: Previous minutes

2. Previous minutes

18:11:04 <sandro> IRC log from Dec 19 http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-owl-irc is now public.

Sandro Hawke: IRC log from Dec 19 http://www.w3.org/2007/12/19-owl-irc is now public. ←

18:11:06 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

18:11:06 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←

18:11:06 <bijan> Peter: The irc log wasn't public, so we can't accept yet.

Peter Patel-Schneider: The irc log wasn't public, so we can't accept yet. ←

18:11:13 <bijan> Sandro: we'll take it off line

Sandro Hawke: we'll take it off line ←

18:11:19 <bijan> Rinke: What about F2F minutes?

Rinke Hoekstra: What about F2F minutes? ←

18:11:33 <dlm> hi - I just joined on the phone as well

Scribe problem: the name 'dlm' does not match any of the 13 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Rinke Hoekstra Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Sandro Hawke Michael Smith Alan Ruttenberg Unknown jjc Zhe Wu Peter Patel-Schneider Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown dlm: hi - I just joined on the phone as well ←

18:11:43 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:11:43 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←

18:11:51 <bijan> Some discussion between Peter and Ian about F2F minutes.

Some discussion between Peter and Ian about F2F minutes. ←

18:12:11 <bijan> Ian: We'll ask people to review them again and put them on the agenda for next week

Ian Horrocks: We'll ask people to review them again and put them on the agenda for next week ←

18:12:47 <bijan> ACTION: Ian to send email reminding people to review the F2F minutes for next week and to put an item on next week's agenda

ACTION: Ian to send email reminding people to review the F2F minutes for next week and to put an item on next week's agenda ←

18:12:47 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-59 - Send email reminding people to review the F2F minutes for next week and to put an item on next week's agenda [on Ian Horrocks - due 2008-01-09].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-59 - Send email reminding people to review the F2F minutes for next week and to put an item on next week's agenda [on Ian Horrocks - due 2008-01-09]. ←

18:12:47 <jjc> i am

Unknown jjc: i am ←

18:12:48 <pfps> jeremy has done this adequately

Peter Patel-Schneider: jeremy has done this adequately ←

18:12:59 <jjc> yes

Unknown jjc: yes ←

18:13:00 <IanH> zakim, who is here?

Ian Horrocks: zakim, who is here? ←

18:13:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith, alanr, jjc (muted), Zhe, pfps (muted), Elisa_Kendall, +1.518.608.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see bijan (muted), Rinke, IanH, bmotik (muted), Sandro, msmith, alanr, jjc (muted), Zhe, pfps (muted), Elisa_Kendall, +1.518.608.aabb ←

18:13:02 <Zakim> On IRC I see dlm, Elisa, alanr, IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng

Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see dlm, Elisa, alanr, IanH, msmith, sandro, Zhe, pfps, Rinke, jjc, RRSAgent, Zakim, bmotik, bijan, trackbot-ng ←

18:13:11 <jjc> Zakim, unmute me

Unknown jjc: Zakim, unmute me ←

18:13:11 <Zakim> jjc should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc should no longer be muted ←

18:13:35 <bijan> TOPIC: Action item review

3. Action item review

18:14:01 <bijan> ACTION-47 delcared accomplished by Jeremy

ACTION-47 delcared accomplished by Jeremy ←

18:14:24 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

zakim, unmute me ←

18:14:24 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

18:14:30 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:14:46 <alanr> Which reminds: Agenda item - quick check in about having UFDTF documentation meeting this coming monday at usual schedule.

Alan Ruttenberg: Which reminds: Agenda item - quick check in about having UFDTF documentation meeting this coming monday at usual schedule. ←

18:15:59 <bijan> ACTION-38 continued until next week

ACTION-38 continued until next week ←

18:16:33 <bijan> ACTION-39 continued until imports task force

ACTION-39 continued until imports task force ←

18:16:36 <bijan> contineu

contineu ←

18:16:59 <bijan> ACTION-42 continued until next week

ACTION-42 continued until next week ←

18:17:28 <pfps> I think that Sandro has done the action

Peter Patel-Schneider: I think that Sandro has done the action ←

18:19:18 <bijan> ACTION-44 pretty much done; close when docs are published

ACTION-44 pretty much done; close when docs are published ←

18:20:31 <bijan> ACTION-45 dependant on Sandro's Test related action

ACTION-45 dependant on Sandro's Test related action ←

18:21:01 <bijan> ACTION 51 continued until next week

ACTION-51 continued until next week ←

18:22:34 <bijan> ACTION-53 progress has been made

ACTION-53 progress has been made ←

18:22:55 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:22:59 <Zakim> +jim

Zakim IRC Bot: +jim ←

18:23:03 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q- ←

18:23:08 <bijan> Sandro: I have an internal target of next Tues.

Sandro Hawke: I have an internal target of next Tues. ←

18:23:29 <pfps> but the content is already available for review - why the serialization

Peter Patel-Schneider: but the content is already available for review - why the serialization ←

18:23:43 <bijan> alanr: We have a procedure wherein the chairs take a week

Alan Ruttenberg: We have a procedure wherein the chairs take a week ←

18:23:58 <bijan> sandro: Why not parallelize the review?

Sandro Hawke: Why not parallelize the review? ←

18:24:20 <bijan> general acclaim and agreement from IanH and alanr

general acclaim and agreement from IanH and alanr ←

18:24:51 <bijan> zakim, mute me

zakim, mute me ←

18:24:51 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

18:25:20 <bmotik> Zakim, jim is hendler

Boris Motik: Zakim, jim is hendler ←

18:25:20 <Zakim> +hendler; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +hendler; got it ←

18:25:53 <bijan> alanr: some issues with status

Alan Ruttenberg: some issues with status ←

18:26:08 <bijan> sandro: some issues with abstract

Sandro Hawke: some issues with abstract ←

18:26:25 <pfps> I like the way the abstracts read.

Peter Patel-Schneider: I like the way the abstracts read. ←

18:27:12 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←

18:27:15 <bijan> jim: I don't like the abstracts

Scribe problem: the name 'hendler' does not match any of the 13 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Rinke Hoekstra Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Sandro Hawke Michael Smith Alan Ruttenberg Unknown jjc Zhe Wu Peter Patel-Schneider Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown hendler: I don't like the abstracts ←

18:27:17 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:27:20 <bijan> q+

q+ ←

18:28:01 <bijan> alanr: We shouldn't touch the abstracts now. Jim can file an issue and then we'll link to the issue.

Alan Ruttenberg: We shouldn't touch the abstracts now. Jim can file an issue and then we'll link to the issue. ←

18:28:12 <bijan> s/jim/hendler/

18:28:15 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:28:17 <jjc> q+ to suggest Jim does a review after publication

Unknown jjc: q+ to suggest Jim does a review after publication ←

18:28:19 <alanr> ack alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←

18:28:27 <bijan> hendler: it's a document review issue not a content issue.

Unknown hendler: it's a document review issue not a content issue. ←

18:28:51 <hendler> q+ re abstract and status

Unknown hendler: q+ re abstract and status ←

18:29:10 <bijan> IanH: We're just acting on the resolution of the F2F and the current text is already agreed to.

Ian Horrocks: We're just acting on the resolution of the F2F and the current text is already agreed to. ←

18:29:12 <alanr> +1 to no changes now.

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to no changes now. ←

18:29:18 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:29:19 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

zakim, unmute me ←

18:29:19 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

18:29:21 <bmotik> +1 to no changes now

Boris Motik: +1 to no changes now ←

18:29:37 <bijan> zakim, mute me

zakim, mute me ←

18:29:37 <Zakim> bijan should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should now be muted ←

18:29:40 <jjc> ack jjc

Unknown jjc: ack jjc ←

18:29:40 <Zakim> jjc, you wanted to suggest Jim does a review after publication

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc, you wanted to suggest Jim does a review after publication ←

18:29:40 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:29:52 <alanr> q+ to address status of this document

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to address status of this document ←

18:29:53 <sandro> Sandro: I apologize for bringing up the edit-the-abstract question -- it's out of order for right now.

Sandro Hawke: I apologize for bringing up the edit-the-abstract question -- it's out of order for right now. [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

18:29:57 <bijan> sandro: whoops, I was sorta out of order

Sandro Hawke: whoops, I was sorta out of order ←

18:30:15 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:30:21 <bijan> jjc: review after publication, but yes, we're off order

Unknown jjc: review after publication, but yes, we're off order ←

18:30:27 <bijan> q-

q- ←

18:30:33 <alanr> ack hendler

Alan Ruttenberg: ack hendler ←

18:30:33 <Zakim> hendler, you wanted to comment re abstract and status

Zakim IRC Bot: hendler, you wanted to comment re abstract and status ←

18:30:38 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:30:58 <bijan> hendler: I withdraw on abstract, but I have qualms about status.

Unknown hendler: I withdraw on abstract, but I have qualms about status. ←

18:31:18 <alanr> status of this document is perogative of w3c team liason

Alan Ruttenberg: status of this document is perogative of w3c team liason ←

18:31:19 <jjc> Jeremy-to-jim: the status belongs to W3C staff contact not the WG

Scribe problem: the name 'Jeremy-to-jim' does not match any of the 13 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Rinke Hoekstra Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Sandro Hawke Michael Smith Alan Ruttenberg Unknown jjc Zhe Wu Peter Patel-Schneider Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Jeremy-to-jim: the status belongs to W3C staff contact not the WG [ Scribe Assist by Unknown jjc ] ←

18:31:27 <bijan> IanH: Status is not done.

Ian Horrocks: Status is not done. ←

18:31:37 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:31:41 <alanr> ack alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←

18:31:41 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to address status of this document

Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to address status of this document ←

18:31:45 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:31:45 <Zakim> pfps was already muted, pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was already muted, pfps ←

18:31:49 <bijan> hendler: We've approved a document without knowing what it is? Don't we need to review that text?

Unknown hendler: We've approved a document without knowing what it is? Don't we need to review that text? ←

18:32:20 <hendler> +1 to alanr re: status

Unknown hendler: +1 to alanr re: status ←

18:32:21 <bijan> IanH: No..as jeremey pointed out, status is a team contact thing not a wg thing

Ian Horrocks: No..as jeremey pointed out, status is a team contact thing not a wg thing ←

18:32:27 <bijan> alanr: though feedback is welcome

Alan Ruttenberg: though feedback is welcome ←

18:32:56 <bijan> zakim, unmute me

zakim, unmute me ←

18:32:56 <Zakim> bijan should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bijan should no longer be muted ←

18:33:10 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←

18:34:47 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:34:55 <bijan> ACTION-56 continued until next week

ACTION-56 continued until next week ←

18:35:19 <bijan> ACTION-55 is closed

ACTION-55 is closed ←

18:35:20 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:35:32 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

18:35:32 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←

18:36:18 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

18:36:18 <Zakim> pfps was not muted, pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was not muted, pfps ←

18:36:24 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:36:24 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←

18:36:31 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←

18:36:31 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:36:38 <bijan> TOPIC: Proposals to resolve issues

4. Proposals to resolve issues

18:36:39 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1 ←

18:36:45 <Rinke> +1 to merge

Rinke Hoekstra: +1 to merge ←

18:36:47 <pfps> +1 to reject 20

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to reject 20 ←

18:36:58 <bijan> Merge issue 20 into 16

Merge ISSUE-20 into 16 ←

18:37:01 <jjc> concur

Unknown jjc: concur ←

18:37:18 <bijan> IanH: WE'll reject issue 20 for issue 16

Ian Horrocks: WE'll reject ISSUE-20 for ISSUE-16 ←

18:37:33 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:37:37 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←

18:37:44 <hendler> +1

Unknown hendler: +1 ←

18:37:46 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1 ←

18:37:47 <pfps> +1 to consider 43 accomplished

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to consider 43 accomplished ←

18:37:50 <msmith> +1

Michael Smith: +1 ←

18:38:11 <bijan> IanH: ISSUE-43 is resolved

Ian Horrocks: ISSUE-43 is resolved ←

18:39:02 <IanH> PROPOSED: close (as RESOLVED) Issue 13 as described in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/0181.html (see Section 4.2 of Syntax)

PROPOSED: close (as RESOLVED) ISSUE-13 as described in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/0181.html (see Section 4.2 of Syntax) ←

18:39:14 <pfps> no - this had been done

Peter Patel-Schneider: no - this had been done ←

18:39:28 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ ←

18:39:33 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

18:39:33 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←

18:39:44 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:39:44 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←

18:39:57 <IanH> RESOLVED: close (as RESOLVED) Issue 13 as described in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/0181.html (see Section 4.2 of Syntax)

RESOLVED: close (as RESOLVED) ISSUE-13 as described in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/0181.html (see Section 4.2 of Syntax) ←

18:40:10 <IanH> PROPOSED: close (as REJECTED) Issue 20 and absorb it into Issue 16

PROPOSED: close (as REJECTED) ISSUE-20 and absorb it into ISSUE-16 ←

18:40:13 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

18:40:13 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←

18:41:16 <alanr> Already resolved: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/0181.html

Alan Ruttenberg: Already resolved: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/0181.html ←

18:41:20 <alanr> officially

Alan Ruttenberg: officially ←

18:42:59 <IanH> PROPOSED: close (as REJECTED) Issue 20 and absorb it into Issue 16

PROPOSED: close (as REJECTED) ISSUE-20 and absorb it into ISSUE-16 ←

18:43:08 <sandro> +0

Sandro Hawke: +0 ←

18:43:10 <IanH> objectons?

Ian Horrocks: objectons? ←

18:43:11 <pfps> +1 to reject

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to reject ←

18:43:15 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1 ←

18:43:20 <Rinke> +1

Rinke Hoekstra: +1 ←

18:43:27 <bijan> +1

+1 ←

18:43:41 <alanr> Re: Issue 55, +1 to close, but resolution would not be Peter's email, rather further action as voted up during f2f. Method of accomplishing is yet to be determined.

Scribe problem: the name 'Re' does not match any of the 13 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Rinke Hoekstra Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Sandro Hawke Michael Smith Alan Ruttenberg Unknown jjc Zhe Wu Peter Patel-Schneider Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Re: ISSUE-55, +1 to close, but resolution would not be Peter's email, rather further action as voted up during f2f. Method of accomplishing is yet to be determined. [ Scribe Assist by Alan Ruttenberg ] ←

18:44:08 <IanH> RESOLVED: close (as REJECTED) Issue 20 and absorb it into Issue 16

RESOLVED: close (as REJECTED) ISSUE-20 and absorb it into ISSUE-16 ←

18:44:35 <IanH> PROPOSED: close (as RESOLVED) Issue 43 as per email http://www.w3.org/mid/BDC59251-1FB7-4F70-8900-E7E38FC86BA4%2540comlab.ox.ac.uk

PROPOSED: close (as RESOLVED) ISSUE-43 as per email http://www.w3.org/mid/BDC59251-1FB7-4F70-8900-E7E38FC86BA4%2540comlab.ox.ac.uk ←

18:45:02 <sandro> +0

Sandro Hawke: +0 ←

18:45:06 <pfps> +1 to resolve

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 to resolve ←

18:45:21 <bmotik> +1 to resolve as proposed

Boris Motik: +1 to resolve as proposed ←

18:45:39 <alanr> +1 (agree with stronger statement)

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 (agree with stronger statement) ←

18:45:46 <IanH> RESOLVED: close (as RESOLVED) Issue 43 as per email http://www.w3.org/mid/BDC59251-1FB7-4F70-8900-E7E38FC86BA4%2540comlab.ox.ac.uk issue is already addressed by OWL 1.1

RESOLVED: close (as RESOLVED) ISSUE-43 as per email http://www.w3.org/mid/BDC59251-1FB7-4F70-8900-E7E38FC86BA4%2540comlab.ox.ac.uk issue is already addressed by OWL 1.1 ←

18:46:01 <msmith> +1 to close as resolved

Michael Smith: +1 to close as resolved ←

18:46:02 <alanr> +1

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 ←

18:46:05 <hendler> +1

Unknown hendler: +1 ←

18:46:11 <IanH> PROPOSED: close (as REJECTED) Issue 55 as per email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/0188.html

PROPOSED: close (as REJECTED) ISSUE-55 as per email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/0188.html ←

18:46:21 <hendler> q+ re: issue 55

Unknown hendler: q+ re: ISSUE-55 ←

18:46:26 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←

18:46:28 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:46:29 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q- ←

18:46:36 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q- ←

18:46:54 <alanr> ack

Alan Ruttenberg: ack ←

18:46:55 <IanH> ack sees

Ian Horrocks: ack sees ←

18:46:59 <hendler> q- re:

Unknown hendler: q- re: ←

18:47:04 <hendler> q- issue

Unknown hendler: q- issue ←

18:47:06 <alanr> q- issue

Alan Ruttenberg: q- issue ←

18:47:08 <hendler> q- 55

Unknown hendler: q- 55 ←

18:47:19 <IanH> q- sees

Ian Horrocks: q- sees ←

18:47:20 <hendler> q+ to discuss issue 55

Unknown hendler: q+ to discuss ISSUE-55 ←

18:47:36 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←

18:48:15 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:48:23 <bijan> alanr: Reiterating what I posted in IRC. We agreed that some sort of effort by the working group to allow more RDF into OWL is a good idea, but I don't want the specific solution of Peter to be part of the resolution since this is an ongoing thing.

Alan Ruttenberg: Reiterating what I posted in IRC. We agreed that some sort of effort by the working group to allow more RDF into OWL is a good idea, but I don't want the specific solution of Peter to be part of the resolution since this is an ongoing thing. ←

18:48:59 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:49:21 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

18:49:34 <bijan> hendler: RPI will official object to rejecting but will abstain to postponed.

Unknown hendler: RPI will official object to rejecting but will abstain to postponed. ←

18:49:38 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:49:49 <jjc> q+ to suggest otu of scope

Unknown jjc: q+ to suggest otu of scope ←

18:49:51 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ ←

18:49:59 <IanH> ack hendler

Ian Horrocks: ack hendler ←

18:49:59 <Zakim> hendler, you wanted to discuss issue 55

Zakim IRC Bot: hendler, you wanted to discuss ISSUE-55 ←

18:50:06 <alanr> I don't mind postponing, personally

Alan Ruttenberg: I don't mind postponing, personally ←

18:50:10 <bijan> IanH: I believe I saw that email but I wanted more detail.

Ian Horrocks: I believe I saw that email but I wanted more detail. ←

18:50:24 <jjc> +1 to jim

Unknown jjc: +1 to jim ←

18:50:42 <bijan> hendler: I don't want to say that this will never be fixed.

Unknown hendler: I don't want to say that this will never be fixed. ←

18:50:56 <alanr> +1, Ian. Let's table it, and not take the queue

Alan Ruttenberg: +1, Ian. Let's table it, and not take the queue ←

18:50:57 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:51:22 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:51:23 <bmotik> q-

Boris Motik: q- ←

18:51:25 <alanr> in the interest of time, request to not take up the issue

Alan Ruttenberg: in the interest of time, request to not take up the issue ←

18:51:27 <bijan> IanH: pretty clear that we won't resolve this as it is proposed to be resolved, so we should put it back to the email

Ian Horrocks: pretty clear that we won't resolve this as it is proposed to be resolved, so we should put it back to the email ←

18:51:33 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q- ←

18:51:36 <jjc> q-

Unknown jjc: q- ←

18:51:50 <bijan> alanr: and will go to issue discussion for next week

Alan Ruttenberg: and will go to issue discussion for next week ←

18:51:59 <IanH> PROPOSED: close (as RESOLVED) Issue 83 as per email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/0028.html

PROPOSED: close (as RESOLVED) ISSUE-83 as per email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-owl-wg/2007Dec/0028.html ←

18:52:28 <IanH> Adjourned to next week

Ian Horrocks: Adjourned to next week ←

18:52:37 <bijan> Depends on an open action

Depends on an open action ←

18:52:55 <jjc> (not adjourned .... a meeting gets adjourned ...)!!

Unknown jjc: (not adjourned .... a meeting gets adjourned ...)!! ←

18:52:57 <bmotik> Regarding ISSUE-55: At the F2F we said that we might produce a document with typical repairs that might allow for more RDF into OWL. IMHO, the distinction between owl:Class and rdfs:Class should be handled there.

Boris Motik: Regarding ISSUE-55: At the F2F we said that we might produce a document with typical repairs that might allow for more RDF into OWL. IMHO, the distinction between owl:Class and rdfs:Class should be handled there. ←

18:53:16 <bijan> Topic: agenda amendement item: Short name issue

5. agenda amendement item: Short name issue

18:53:19 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:54:29 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:55:13 <bijan> sandro: [reluctantly] There is a uri for each document with a date embedded, but there is also a "short name" or "latest uri". Problem: does the owl (1.1) semantics override the old one? Where will people want to end up 5 years from now

Sandro Hawke: [reluctantly] There is a uri for each document with a date embedded, but there is also a "short name" or "latest uri". Problem: does the owl (1.1) semantics override the old one? Where will people want to end up 5 years from now ←

18:55:31 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←

18:55:46 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:56:19 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:56:28 <bijan> IanH: That's clear, but it would be strange if people wanted to go to the older semantics.

Ian Horrocks: That's clear, but it would be strange if people wanted to go to the older semantics. ←

18:56:49 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:56:50 <bijan> alanr: but isn't this exactly why we went for the owl11 short name? So that we wouldn't shadow?

Alan Ruttenberg: but isn't this exactly why we went for the owl11 short name? So that we wouldn't shadow? ←

18:57:20 <hendler> q+ is this maybe something to raise in status section?

Unknown hendler: q+ is this maybe something to raise in status section? ←

18:57:20 <bijan> IanH: How irrevocable is the current decision wrt recommendation?

Ian Horrocks: How irrevocable is the current decision wrt recommendation? ←

18:57:30 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:57:30 <msmith> at the f2f it was pointed out the working draft shouldn't shadow the  1.0 docs, and we had to avoid that

Michael Smith: at the f2f it was pointed out the working draft shouldn't shadow the 1.0 docs, and we had to avoid that ←

18:57:31 <jjc> +1 to Ian

Unknown jjc: +1 to Ian ←

18:57:34 <alanr> ack

Alan Ruttenberg: ack ←

18:57:38 <alanr> ack alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←

18:57:42 <hendler> q+to ask is this maybe something to raise in status section?

Unknown hendler: q+to ask is this maybe something to raise in status section? ←

18:58:19 <bijan> sandro: [still reluctantly] The current drafts will contain a latest draft url and we need to do right by that. But it's still flexible.

Sandro Hawke: [still reluctantly] The current drafts will contain a latest draft url and we need to do right by that. But it's still flexible. ←

18:58:22 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

18:58:22 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←

18:58:30 <bijan> IanH: well, we can't shadow recs with our current *drafts*

Ian Horrocks: well, we can't shadow recs with our current *drafts* ←

18:58:57 <alanr> IIRC we *can* change short name later, but it is a pain.

Alan Ruttenberg: IIRC we *can* change short name later, but it is a pain. ←

18:58:58 <bijan> hendler: There are different documents. Syntax and semantics seem intended to shadow S&AS, but other documents may be additive.

Unknown hendler: There are different documents. Syntax and semantics seem intended to shadow S&AS, but other documents may be additive. ←

18:59:03 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

18:59:06 <pfps> the syntax doc is not a replacement for S&AS as it has neither the RDF mapping nor any formal semantics

Peter Patel-Schneider: the syntax doc is not a replacement for S&AS as it has neither the RDF mapping nor any formal semantics ←

18:59:10 <alanr> My guess is that pain is preferable to resolution now

Alan Ruttenberg: My guess is that pain is preferable to resolution now ←

18:59:41 <bijan> IanH: We can weasal like minks and avoid committing now.

Ian Horrocks: We can weasal like minks and avoid committing now. ←

19:00:25 <bijan> sandro: It's not clear that we can. Whatever draft we publish will  have urls that change overtime but we need to make sure we manage that change sensibly

Sandro Hawke: It's not clear that we can. Whatever draft we publish will have urls that change overtime but we need to make sure we manage that change sensibly ←

19:01:00 <sandro> "owl11-semantics"  or "owl-semantics-latest-draft" or "owl1-semantics"

Sandro Hawke: "owl11-semantics" or "owl-semantics-latest-draft" or "owl1-semantics" ←

19:01:05 <bijan> ... E.g., syntax and semantics documents point to each other...but I think maybe it's ok.

... E.g., syntax and semantics documents point to each other...but I think maybe it's ok. ←

19:01:25 <bijan> alanr: isn't htis what we resolved in the f2f

Alan Ruttenberg: isn't htis what we resolved in the f2f ←

19:01:28 <bmotik> +1 to owl11-semantics

Boris Motik: +1 to owl11-semantics ←

19:01:51 <sandro> "owl-semantics"

Sandro Hawke: "owl-semantics" ←

19:02:10 <msmith> can we get around this like html? e.g. there is latest version of html and latest version of html4.  xhtml 1.0 shadows html, but not html4

Michael Smith: can we get around this like html? e.g. there is latest version of html and latest version of html4. xhtml 1.0 shadows html, but not html4 ←

19:02:46 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:02:50 <bijan> sandro: But there's new information. We can't use owl-semantics since that would make our drafts shadow recs (BAD WEASAL). "owl-semantics-latest-draft" is very future proof and handy

Sandro Hawke: But there's new information. We can't use owl-semantics since that would make our drafts shadow recs (BAD WEASAL). "owl-semantics-latest-draft" is very future proof and handy ←

19:02:53 <msmith> +1 for sandro and alanr to settle this

Michael Smith: +1 for sandro and alanr to settle this ←

19:02:58 <pfps> just get it done something this millenium :-)

Peter Patel-Schneider: just get it done something this millenium :-) ←

19:03:00 <alanr> Alan says team-owl-chairs will resolve

Alan Ruttenberg: Alan says team-owl-chairs will resolve ←

19:03:18 <bijan> +1 to sandro and alanr handling

+1 to sandro and alanr handling ←

19:03:35 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:03:38 <jjc> q+ to suggest e-mail 24 hr review

Unknown jjc: q+ to suggest e-mail 24 hr review ←

19:03:39 <hendler> ack

Unknown hendler: ack ←

19:03:46 <jjc> ack me#

Unknown jjc: ack me# ←

19:03:49 <bijan> IanH: Yet another chair complaining about IRC comments with preference for people going to speaker queue

Ian Horrocks: Yet another chair complaining about IRC comments with preference for people going to speaker queue ←

19:03:49 <jjc> ack me

Unknown jjc: ack me ←

19:03:50 <Zakim> jjc, you wanted to suggest e-mail 24 hr review

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc, you wanted to suggest e-mail 24 hr review ←

19:03:52 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:04:03 <hendler> +1 to jjc

Unknown hendler: +1 to jjc ←

19:04:28 <bijan> jjc: Once sandro has the solution can he give us 24 hours review?

Unknown jjc: Once sandro has the solution can he give us 24 hours review? ←

19:04:38 <sandro> 24 hours == 1 business day

Sandro Hawke: 24 hours == 1 business day ←

19:04:40 <alanr> 24 hours review if not owl11

Alan Ruttenberg: 24 hours review if not owl11 ←

19:04:42 <bijan> alanr: can we make it only if short name owl11

Alan Ruttenberg: can we make it only if short name owl11 ←

19:04:52 <bijan> jjc: yes

Unknown jjc: yes ←

19:05:00 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:05:08 <bijan> q- hendler

q- hendler ←

19:05:13 <IanH> ack hendler

Ian Horrocks: ack hendler ←

19:05:16 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:06:06 <bijan> Topic: Raised Issues

6. Raised Issues

19:06:18 <bijan> Issue 90 class and property deprecation

ISSUE-90 class and property deprecation ←

19:06:27 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:06:55 <bijan> Rinke: These are in OWL 1.0 but not in OWL 1.1 docs, so we should deal with it.

Rinke Hoekstra: These are in OWL 1.0 but not in OWL 1.1 docs, so we should deal with it. ←

19:07:07 <alanr> q+ to ask whether anyone ever found this useful?

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to ask whether anyone ever found this useful? ←

19:07:31 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ ←

19:07:37 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

19:07:37 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←

19:07:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:08:04 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

19:08:04 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←

19:08:17 <alanr> q?

Alan Ruttenberg: q? ←

19:08:21 <alanr> ack alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: ack alanr ←

19:08:21 <Zakim> alanr, you wanted to ask whether anyone ever found this useful?

Zakim IRC Bot: alanr, you wanted to ask whether anyone ever found this useful? ←

19:08:25 <alanr> +1 to open

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to open ←

19:08:26 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q- ←

19:08:28 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:08:33 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

19:08:33 <Zakim> pfps was already muted, pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was already muted, pfps ←

19:08:48 <bijan> IanH: we'll open Issue-90

Ian Horrocks: we'll open ISSUE-90 ←

19:09:06 <alanr> +1 to open

Alan Ruttenberg: +1 to open ←

19:09:32 <bijan> Issue 91 ontology properties

ISSUE-91 ontology properties ←

19:09:59 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

19:10:02 <alanr> there is another issue re: meaning

Alan Ruttenberg: there is another issue re: meaning ←

19:10:06 <bmotik> ack bmotik

Boris Motik: ack bmotik ←

19:10:06 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

19:10:08 <Zakim> pfps was already muted, pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps was already muted, pfps ←

19:10:11 <bijan> Rinke: Boris and I talked about this and some properties are now annotation properties but what do they mean?

Rinke Hoekstra: Boris and I talked about this and some properties are now annotation properties but what do they mean? ←

19:10:22 <jjc> q+ to support this as issue

Unknown jjc: q+ to support this as issue ←

19:10:26 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:10:27 <alanr> q+ to explain meaning

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ to explain meaning ←

19:10:47 <bijan> boirs: What do you mean by meaning? In the old spec they didn't have meaning either.

Scribe problem: the name 'boirs' does not match any of the 13 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Rinke Hoekstra Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Sandro Hawke Michael Smith Alan Ruttenberg Unknown jjc Zhe Wu Peter Patel-Schneider Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown boirs: What do you mean by meaning? In the old spec they didn't have meaning either. ←

19:10:49 <bijan> q+

q+ ←

19:10:52 <alanr> question before us is whether to open

Alan Ruttenberg: question before us is whether to open ←

19:10:59 <bmotik> Zakim, mute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, mute me ←

19:10:59 <Zakim> bmotik should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should now be muted ←

19:11:07 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:11:07 <alanr> Discussion indicates we should open

Alan Ruttenberg: Discussion indicates we should open ←

19:11:33 <alanr> q- alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: q- alanr ←

19:11:42 <bijan> Rinke: I'm ok with that but the documentation says something informal about it. We should proprogate (or at least discuss) these issues

Rinke Hoekstra: I'm ok with that but the documentation says something informal about it. We should proprogate (or at least discuss) these issues ←

19:11:47 <alanr> don't need and don't want

Alan Ruttenberg: don't need and don't want ←

19:11:52 <bijan> IanH: Seems like there is some issue to discuss

Ian Horrocks: Seems like there is some issue to discuss ←

19:11:58 <bijan> q- bijan

q- bijan ←

19:12:03 <jjc> q-

Unknown jjc: q- ←

19:12:05 <jjc> boring

Unknown jjc: boring ←

19:12:09 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:12:29 <bijan> IanH: so we should take it up. Issue-90 is open

Ian Horrocks: so we should take it up. ISSUE-90 is open ←

19:12:35 <bmotik> Rinke, could you perhaps additionally point to what kind of "meaning" has been lost in OWL 1.1?

Boris Motik: Rinke, could you perhaps additionally point to what kind of "meaning" has been lost in OWL 1.1? ←

19:12:42 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←

19:12:52 <bijan> TOPIC: Resolved Editorial Issues

7. Resolved Editorial Issues

19:13:02 <alanr> -1 to resolve as there is no pointer to diff

Alan Ruttenberg: -1 to resolve as there is no pointer to diff ←

19:13:20 <bmotik> Zakim, unmute me

Boris Motik: Zakim, unmute me ←

19:13:20 <Zakim> bmotik should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: bmotik should no longer be muted ←

19:14:40 <bijan> boris: the change was in the diagrams. How do I diff diagrams?

Boris Motik: the change was in the diagrams. How do I diff diagrams? ←

19:14:56 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ ←

19:15:00 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:15:08 <pfps> zakim, unmute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, unmute me ←

19:15:08 <Zakim> pfps should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should no longer be muted ←

19:15:14 <alanr> q- alanr

Alan Ruttenberg: q- alanr ←

19:15:26 <Rinke> Boris, about your issue-91 question: I'll put it in an email, ok?

Rinke Hoekstra: Boris, about your ISSUE-91 question: I'll put it in an email, ok? ←

19:15:26 <jjc> q+ to support boris

Unknown jjc: q+ to support boris ←

19:15:33 <bmotik> +1 to peter!

Boris Motik: +1 to peter! ←

19:15:45 <bmotik> q+

Boris Motik: q+ ←

19:16:02 <jjc> +1 to pfps

Unknown jjc: +1 to pfps ←

19:16:39 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:17:00 <bijan> pfps: It's unreasonable to demand stuff that the tools foisted on the editors esp. if it's post facto

Peter Patel-Schneider: It's unreasonable to demand stuff that the tools foisted on the editors esp. if it's post facto ←

19:17:15 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:17:20 <jjc> Zakim, unmute me

Unknown jjc: Zakim, unmute me ←

19:17:20 <Zakim> jjc should no longer be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc should no longer be muted ←

19:17:32 <bijan> IanH: Peter do you object to *this* diff requriment or any requirement for diffs

Ian Horrocks: Peter do you object to *this* diff requriment or any requirement for diffs ←

19:17:33 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:17:44 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q- ←

19:17:59 <bijan> some chatter between alanr and pfps

some chatter between alanr and pfps ←

19:18:28 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:18:35 <IanH> ack jjc

Ian Horrocks: ack jjc ←

19:18:35 <Zakim> jjc, you wanted to support boris

Zakim IRC Bot: jjc, you wanted to support boris ←

19:18:58 <bijan> jjc: I support Peter. The key audit point is publication, not editors draft. So there is no need for this extra fine grained diff requirements.

Unknown jjc: I support Peter. The key audit point is publication, not editors draft. So there is no need for this extra fine grained diff requirements. ←

19:18:59 <alanr> I would agree to 1/2 hour being burden. Let's pass on this one and discuss for future.

Alan Ruttenberg: I would agree to 1/2 hour being burden. Let's pass on this one and discuss for future. ←

19:19:13 <sandro> ??? But the wiki is HTML

Sandro Hawke: ??? But the wiki is HTML ←

19:19:22 <alanr> I don't believe this is burden, but we don't have to resolve now. I'm hearing what is said.

Alan Ruttenberg: I don't believe this is burden, but we don't have to resolve now. I'm hearing what is said. ←

19:19:42 <alanr> But misinformation re difficulty is not reasonable to me.

Alan Ruttenberg: But misinformation re difficulty is not reasonable to me. ←

19:19:51 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:20:09 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ ←

19:20:14 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:20:47 <bmotik> q-

Boris Motik: q- ←

19:21:05 <bijan> alanr: I'd like to resolve this issue but not to accept rejection of the procedure. I think it's not hard (in principle) but needs to be better documented

Alan Ruttenberg: I'd like to resolve this issue but not to accept rejection of the procedure. I think it's not hard (in principle) but needs to be better documented ←

19:21:07 <alanr> Action: Alan to document how to diff images.

ACTION: Alan to document how to diff images. ←

19:21:07 <trackbot-ng> Created ACTION-60 - Document how to diff images. [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-01-09].

Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-60 - Document how to diff images. [on Alan Ruttenberg - due 2008-01-09]. ←

19:21:19 <bijan> q+

q+ ←

19:21:30 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:21:53 <IanH> ack pfps

Ian Horrocks: ack pfps ←

19:22:27 <bijan> pfps: I'm not convinced that alan is the person should be made happy. The WG needs to be made happy.

Peter Patel-Schneider: I'm not convinced that alan is the person should be made happy. The WG needs to be made happy. ←

19:22:29 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:22:43 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q- ←

19:22:43 <jjc> q+ to mention history mechanism http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=Syntax&diff=2108&oldid=2052

Unknown jjc: q+ to mention history mechanism http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/index.php?title=Syntax&diff=2108&oldid=2052 ←

19:23:02 <bijan> sandro: Is anyone else supportive of alanr technique?

Sandro Hawke: Is anyone else supportive of alanr technique? ←

19:23:15 <alanr> We already agreed to text diffs

Alan Ruttenberg: We already agreed to text diffs ←

19:23:25 <bijan> hendler: yes, probably will be helpful later

Unknown hendler: yes, probably will be helpful later ←

19:23:28 <pfps> text diffs - when

Peter Patel-Schneider: text diffs - when ←

19:23:52 <pfps> zakim, mute me

Peter Patel-Schneider: zakim, mute me ←

19:23:52 <Zakim> pfps should now be muted

Zakim IRC Bot: pfps should now be muted ←

19:23:58 <alanr> q+

Alan Ruttenberg: q+ ←

19:24:08 <alanr> Agree to easy. What is considered easy?

Alan Ruttenberg: Agree to easy. What is considered easy? ←

19:24:10 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:24:20 <bmotik> +1 to jjc

Boris Motik: +1 to jjc ←

19:24:20 <alanr> q- jjc

Alan Ruttenberg: q- jjc ←

19:24:35 <bijan> jjc: sometimes it is easy to provide a diff. Boris's point was that it was hard in this case. When it is easy, we should encourage (not require) them to do it.

Unknown jjc: sometimes it is easy to provide a diff. Boris's point was that it was hard in this case. When it is easy, we should encourage (not require) them to do it. ←

19:24:46 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:25:22 <alanr> ack bijan

Alan Ruttenberg: ack bijan ←

19:25:43 <bijan> bijan: Are we providing change logs?

Bijan Parsia: Are we providing change logs? ←

19:25:43 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:25:51 <IanH> ack alanr

Ian Horrocks: ack alanr ←

19:25:56 <bijan> IanH: we don't need them now, right? First draft?

Ian Horrocks: we don't need them now, right? First draft? ←

19:26:05 <jjc> q+ to suggest change log *requirement* is from Last Call

Unknown jjc: q+ to suggest change log *requirement* is from Last Call ←

19:26:07 <pfps> q+

Peter Patel-Schneider: q+ ←

19:26:09 <sandro> Sandro: We probably should have provided a change-log from the Submission....

Sandro Hawke: We probably should have provided a change-log from the Submission.... [ Scribe Assist by Sandro Hawke ] ←

19:26:24 <bijan> sandro: might be nice to have one from the submission

Sandro Hawke: might be nice to have one from the submission ←

19:26:41 <pfps> q-

Peter Patel-Schneider: q- ←

19:26:48 <sandro> (I could produce an HTML diff from the submission......     that would be interesting to see.)

Sandro Hawke: (I could produce an HTML diff from the submission...... that would be interesting to see.) ←

19:27:06 <jjc> q-

Unknown jjc: q- ←

19:27:06 <bijan> alanr: I think that the change log could be most easily generated from issues whose resolution has a diff pointer

Alan Ruttenberg: I think that the change log could be most easily generated from issues whose resolution has a diff pointer ←

19:27:08 <pfps> OK

Peter Patel-Schneider: OK ←

19:27:43 <bijan> alanr: This is a chairs issue not a wg issue

Alan Ruttenberg: This is a chairs issue not a wg issue ←

19:28:41 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:29:23 <IanH> q?

Ian Horrocks: q? ←

19:30:15 <IanH> PROPOSED: close issue 49

PROPOSED: close ISSUE-49 ←

19:30:26 <jjc> +1

Unknown jjc: +1 ←

19:30:27 <pfps> +1 let's nuke this baby

Peter Patel-Schneider: +1 let's nuke this baby ←

19:30:27 <hendler> +1

Unknown hendler: +1 ←

19:30:31 <bmotik> +1

Boris Motik: +1 ←

19:30:34 <Rinke> +1 to close

Rinke Hoekstra: +1 to close ←

19:30:34 <bijan> +1 for the love of god

+1 for the love of god ←

19:30:35 <Elisa> +1

Scribe problem: the name 'Elisa' does not match any of the 13 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Bijan Parsia Rinke Hoekstra Ian Horrocks Boris Motik Sandro Hawke Michael Smith Alan Ruttenberg Unknown jjc Zhe Wu Peter Patel-Schneider Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot

Unknown Elisa: +1 ←

19:30:42 <IanH> RESOLVED: close issue 49

RESOLVED: close ISSUE-49 ←

19:30:43 <Zhe> +1

Zhe Wu: +1 ←

19:30:44 <msmith> +1

Michael Smith: +1 ←

19:31:18 <Zakim> -alanr

Zakim IRC Bot: -alanr ←

19:31:19 <Zakim> -Zhe

Zakim IRC Bot: -Zhe ←

19:31:19 <Zakim> -hendler

Zakim IRC Bot: -hendler ←

19:31:20 <Zakim> -Elisa_Kendall

Zakim IRC Bot: -Elisa_Kendall ←

19:31:20 <Zakim> -msmith

Zakim IRC Bot: -msmith ←

19:31:21 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←

19:31:22 <Rinke> bye

Rinke Hoekstra: bye ←

19:31:23 <Zakim> -bmotik

Zakim IRC Bot: -bmotik ←

19:31:24 <Zakim> - +1.518.608.aabb

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.518.608.aabb ←

19:31:26 <Zakim> -Rinke

Zakim IRC Bot: -Rinke ←

19:31:28 <Zakim> -bijan

Zakim IRC Bot: -bijan ←

19:31:37 <sandro> bijan, would you like me put the draft minutes in the wiki now?

Sandro Hawke: bijan, would you like me put the draft minutes in the wiki now? ←

19:31:42 <Zakim> -IanH

Zakim IRC Bot: -IanH ←

19:31:45 <bijan> Please!

Please! ←

19:32:30 <Zakim> -jjc

Zakim IRC Bot: -jjc ←

19:33:24 <sandro> okay, working on it.

Sandro Hawke: okay, working on it. ←

19:33:51 <Zakim> -pfps

Zakim IRC Bot: -pfps ←

19:33:52 <Zakim> SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: SW_OWL()12:00PM has ended ←

19:33:54 <Zakim> Attendees were Rinke, bijan, bmotik, Sandro, IanH, msmith, +1.617.253.aaaa, alanr, jjc, Zhe, pfps, Elisa_Kendall, +1.518.608.aabb, hendler

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Rinke, bijan, bmotik, Sandro, IanH, msmith, +1.617.253.aaaa, alanr, jjc, Zhe, pfps, Elisa_Kendall, +1.518.608.aabb, hendler ←

19:43:22 <sandro> sorry for the delay, Bijan, my script wasn't happy about the log stretching over a year boundary.   duh.

(No events recorded for 9 minutes)

Sandro Hawke: sorry for the delay, Bijan, my script wasn't happy about the log stretching over a year boundary. duh. ←

19:46:34 <sandro> Okay, Bijan.    Ready for you, I think.    http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.02/Minutes

Sandro Hawke: Okay, Bijan. Ready for you, I think. http://www.w3.org/2007/OWL/wiki/Teleconference.2008.01.02/Minutes ←

20:01:10 <bijan> thx

(No events recorded for 14 minutes)

thx ←

20:02:15 <bijan> sandro, I think lots of people who called in are missing

sandro, I think lots of people who called in are missing ←

20:02:27 <bijan> Jim and Deb and Elisa come to mind

Jim and Deb and Elisa come to mind ←

20:02:55 <bijan> I guess I just have to go through manually and add them?

I guess I just have to go through manually and add them? ←

20:03:20 <sandro> This is based on the people who were on when Ian called attendance.   I didn't pay attention after that.  Yeah, I guess do it by hand.

Sandro Hawke: This is based on the people who were on when Ian called attendance. I didn't pay attention after that. Yeah, I guess do it by hand. ←

20:03:31 <bijan> Ok

Ok ←

20:03:36 <bijan> zakim doesn't h ave a memory, eh?

zakim doesn't h ave a memory, eh? ←

20:08:20 <bijan> sandro, the log is not accessible

sandro, the log is not accessible ←

20:08:38 <sandro> RRSAgent, make record public

Sandro Hawke: RRSAgent, make record public ←

20:08:42 <sandro> that should do it.

Sandro Hawke: that should do it. ←

20:08:51 <bijan> yep, thanks

yep, thanks ←

Formatted by CommonScribe