13:55:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-ldp-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-ldp-irc ←
13:55:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
13:55:38 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be LDP ←
13:55:38 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes ←
13:55:39 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:55:39 <trackbot> Date: 19 August 2013
13:59:43 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started ←
13:59:45 <Zakim> +Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: +Arnaud ←
14:00:13 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:00:15 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: -[IPcaller] ←
14:00:15 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[IPcaller] ←
14:00:42 <Zakim> +SteveBattle
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveBattle ←
14:00:57 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ashok_Malhotra ←
14:01:39 <Zakim> +Steve_Speicher
Zakim IRC Bot: +Steve_Speicher ←
14:01:55 <SteveS> Zakim, Steve_Speicher is me
Steve Speicher: Zakim, Steve_Speicher is me ←
14:01:55 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +SteveS; got it ←
14:03:22 <Arnaud> zkaim, who's on the phone?
Arnaud Le Hors: zkaim, who's on the phone? ←
14:03:31 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
14:03:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, [IPcaller], SteveBattle, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, TomDN
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Arnaud, [IPcaller], SteveBattle, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, TomDN ←
14:03:38 <Zakim> +JohnArwe
Zakim IRC Bot: +JohnArwe ←
14:04:41 <Zakim> +TomDN
Zakim IRC Bot: +TomDN ←
14:05:04 <mielvds> zakim, TomDN is me
Miel Vander Sande: zakim, TomDN is me ←
14:05:04 <Zakim> +mielvds; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +mielvds; got it ←
14:05:28 <Arnaud> zakim, IPCaller is Ted
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, IPCaller is Ted ←
14:05:28 <Zakim> +Ted; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Ted; got it ←
14:07:07 <JohnArwe> scribe: JohnArwe
(Scribe set to John Arwe)
<JohnArwe> chair: Arnaud
<JohnArwe> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.08.19
<JohnArwe> TOPIC: Admin
14:07:54 <JohnArwe> subTOPIC: Approval of Aug 5 minutes
14:07:57 <JohnArwe> http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2013-08-05
http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2013-08-05 ←
14:08:17 <JohnArwe> RESOLUTION: Minutes of August 5 approved without objection
RESOLVED: Minutes of August 5 approved without objection ←
14:08:30 <JohnArwe> subTOPIC: Meeting schedule going forward
14:09:18 <JohnArwe> Want to resume meetings; will meet August 26, will skip Sept 2 (US holiday), Sept 9 will skip due to F2F4 later that week and Arnaud will be traveling himself.
Want to resume meetings; will meet August 26, will skip Sept 2 (US holiday), Sept 9 will skip due to F2F4 later that week and Arnaud will be traveling himself. ←
14:09:32 <Zakim> +roger
Zakim IRC Bot: +roger ←
14:09:37 <JohnArwe> F2F4: please update your plans to attend, even if not final
F2F4: please update your plans to attend, even if not final ←
14:09:50 <JohnArwe> F2F4 page: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/F2F4
F2F4 page: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/F2F4 ←
14:09:59 <Zakim> +Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: +Sandro ←
14:10:01 <JohnArwe> TOPIC: Tracking of Actions & Issues
14:10:28 <JohnArwe> action-82 ?
14:10:28 <trackbot> action-82 -- Miel Vander Sande to Take another look at how LDP and GSP compare and report back -- due 2013-06-27 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-82 -- Miel Vander Sande to Take another look at how LDP and GSP compare and report back -- due 2013-06-27 -- OPEN ←
14:10:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/82
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/82 ←
14:10:37 <JohnArwe> task completed, we can close
task completed, we can close ←
14:10:49 <JohnArwe> trackbot, close action-82
14:10:49 <trackbot> Closed action-82.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-82. ←
14:11:33 <JohnArwe> action-49 ?
14:11:33 <trackbot> action-49 -- Cody Burleson to Turn the deployment guide/best practice wiki page into a first draft note for publication -- due 2013-03-21 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-49 -- Cody Burleson to Turn the deployment guide/best practice wiki page into a first draft note for publication -- due 2013-03-21 -- OPEN ←
14:11:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/49
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/49 ←
14:11:47 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
14:11:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, Ted, SteveBattle, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, JohnArwe, mielvds, roger, Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Arnaud, Ted, SteveBattle, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, JohnArwe, mielvds, roger, Sandro ←
14:12:00 <Arnaud> zakim, Ted is Cody
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, Ted is Cody ←
14:12:00 <Zakim> +Cody; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Cody; got it ←
14:12:15 <roger> +q
Roger Menday: +q ←
14:12:22 <JohnArwe> Cody: working on it, 8 open items on my list for doc to be complete first pass of wiki content
Cody Burleson: working on it, 8 open items on my list for doc to be complete first pass of wiki content ←
14:13:15 <JohnArwe> ...5 sections to go through. plus issues 62, 56, 50 hit document.
...5 sections to go through. plus issues 62, 56, 50 hit document. ←
14:14:24 <JohnArwe> ... can close action, document exists, not sure if wg considers that done enough.
... can close action, document exists, not sure if wg considers that done enough. ←
14:14:57 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: understand it's not done, but if you're converted it to respec we certainly CAN close it. do you prefer leaving it open as a reminder?
Arnaud Le Hors: understand it's not done, but if you're converted it to respec we certainly CAN close it. do you prefer leaving it open as a reminder? ←
14:15:05 <JohnArwe> Cody: close it, got it.
Cody Burleson: close it, got it. ←
14:15:14 <JohnArwe> trackbot, close action-49
14:15:14 <trackbot> Closed action-49.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-49. ←
14:15:29 <Arnaud> ack roger
Arnaud Le Hors: ack roger ←
14:15:52 <JohnArwe> action-46?
14:15:52 <trackbot> action-46 -- Roger Menday to Work with Roger to raise an issue on using standard HTTP verbs for finer-grained graph manipulations -- due 2013-03-20 -- OPEN
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-46 -- Roger Menday to Work with Roger to raise an issue on using standard HTTP verbs for finer-grained graph manipulations -- due 2013-03-20 -- OPEN ←
14:15:52 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/46
Trackbot IRC Bot: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/46 ←
14:16:52 <JohnArwe> Roger: property-level editing of resources. I think in light of our patch decisions this might come up in the future, but I think OK to close it here.
Roger Menday: property-level editing of resources. I think in light of our patch decisions this might come up in the future, but I think OK to close it here. ←
14:17:26 <JohnArwe> ...best to close it.
...best to close it. ←
14:17:34 <JohnArwe> close action-46
14:17:34 <trackbot> Closed action-46.
Trackbot IRC Bot: Closed ACTION-46. ←
14:18:36 <JohnArwe> TOPIC: Status update
14:20:24 <JohnArwe> Cody: Best Practices and Guidelines ... going through wiki section by section filling in copious blanks. 5 sections left to draft. Trying to hit 1-2 per week, optimistic to finish those over next 2 weeks. Then several issues to cover.
Cody Burleson: Best Practices and Guidelines ... going through wiki section by section filling in copious blanks. 5 sections left to draft. Trying to hit 1-2 per week, optimistic to finish those over next 2 weeks. Then several issues to cover. ←
14:20:52 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: understand time contention; if you need help, email list/people
Arnaud Le Hors: understand time contention; if you need help, email list/people ←
14:21:19 <JohnArwe> Cody: need to look for omissions next; which BPs should we have that are not there yet at all.
Cody Burleson: need to look for omissions next; which BPs should we have that are not there yet at all. ←
14:23:22 <JohnArwe> SteveBattle: Use Cases + Reqts ... working on Miguel's list. Traceability issue; thinking about adding number to end of heading.
Steve Battle: Use Cases + Reqts ... working on Miguel's list. Traceability issue; thinking about adding number to end of heading. ←
14:23:38 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: David Wood was supposed to review, contact him.
Arnaud Le Hors: David Wood was supposed to review, contact him. ←
14:24:11 <SteveS> davidwood, any chance of review UCR your ACTION-41 ?
Steve Speicher: davidwood, any chance of review UCR your ACTION-41 ? ←
14:24:16 <JohnArwe> SteveBattle: David gave me verbal comments; think actions might exist on Roger and EricP. Do we have a date for comments?
Steve Battle: David gave me verbal comments; think actions might exist on Roger and EricP. Do we have a date for comments? ←
14:24:57 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: F2F4 will be partly consumed by normative issues, but everyone should review all the documents in preparation for the meeting.
Arnaud Le Hors: F2F4 will be partly consumed by normative issues, but everyone should review all the documents in preparation for the meeting. ←
14:25:13 <JohnArwe> SteveBattle: Battling respec/specref to add informative refs.
Steve Battle: Battling respec/specref to add informative refs. ←
14:25:21 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
14:25:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, Cody, SteveBattle, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, JohnArwe, mielvds, roger, Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Arnaud, Cody, SteveBattle, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, JohnArwe, mielvds, roger, Sandro ←
14:25:45 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: test suite - no one appears to be on to represent that work.
Arnaud Le Hors: test suite - no one appears to be on to represent that work. ←
14:26:00 <JohnArwe> SteveS: last commit on it was 11 days ago, so has been moving.
Steve Speicher: last commit on it was 11 days ago, so has been moving. ←
14:26:18 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: Access control ... Miguel and Ted to review, Ashok waiting for those comments
Arnaud Le Hors: Access control ... Miguel and Ted to review, Ashok waiting for those comments ←
14:26:37 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: Primer ... Nandana MIA, but Roger is on
Arnaud Le Hors: Primer ... Nandana MIA, but Roger is on ←
14:27:03 <SteveS> FYI…list of changesets for primer, test suite, guidance and spec https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/shortlog
Steve Speicher: FYI…list of changesets for primer, test suite, guidance and spec https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/shortlog ←
14:27:41 <JohnArwe> Roger: ReSpec'd it up, restructuring, adding picture for each example, you can show everything in either Turtle or JSON-LD.
Roger Menday: ReSpec'd it up, restructuring, adding picture for each example, you can show everything in either Turtle or JSON-LD. ←
14:27:59 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: please try to align with F2F4 dates so WG can review.
Arnaud Le Hors: please try to align with F2F4 dates so WG can review. ←
14:30:06 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: IETF accept-post ... implementers (whether in LDP or not) should use the email/instructions from ErikW's post to speak up and support it so it moves faster in IETF. Need not be product or on sale; prototype level of implementation is fine.
Arnaud Le Hors: IETF accept-post ... implementers (whether in LDP or not) should use the email/instructions from ErikW's post to speak up and support it so it moves faster in IETF. Need not be product or on sale; prototype level of implementation is fine. ←
14:30:55 <SteveS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Jul/0105.html
Steve Speicher: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Jul/0105.html ←
14:31:10 <JohnArwe> TOPIC: Spec LC comments
14:33:05 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: MUST be diligent in tracking + responding to comments, in order to move past Last Call. every comment on the public list has been captured in tracker, must be disposed of. Not required that full WG handles it, e.g. for a question the editors could just answer it. Those requiring spec changes beyond simple editorial ones will need group discussion.
Arnaud Le Hors: MUST be diligent in tracking + responding to comments, in order to move past Last Call. every comment on the public list has been captured in tracker, must be disposed of. Not required that full WG handles it, e.g. for a question the editors could just answer it. Those requiring spec changes beyond simple editorial ones will need group discussion. ←
14:33:45 <JohnArwe> ... so far: one probably WG discussion from Mark Baker, several smaller ones from Ashok
... so far: one probably WG discussion from Mark Baker, several smaller ones from Ashok ←
14:34:17 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
Arnaud Le Hors: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
14:34:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, Cody, SteveBattle, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, JohnArwe, mielvds, roger, Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see Arnaud, Cody, SteveBattle, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, JohnArwe, mielvds, roger, Sandro ←
14:34:56 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: editors can suggest order for handling
Arnaud Le Hors: editors can suggest order for handling ←
14:35:18 <JohnArwe> Ashok: how do you want to handle? wait for f2f, send email, calls?
Ashok Malhotra: how do you want to handle? wait for f2f, send email, calls? ←
14:35:48 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: don't wait for F2F; especially for simpler ones, use email list etc.
Arnaud Le Hors: don't wait for F2F; especially for simpler ones, use email list etc. ←
14:37:55 <JohnArwe> ... practice getting familiar with process by looking at list https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/55082/ldp/
... practice getting familiar with process by looking at list https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/55082/ldp/ ←
14:38:38 <JohnArwe> ... we'll assign what we can now, have to leave time for PATCH on this call
... we'll assign what we can now, have to leave time for PATCH on this call ←
14:38:53 <JohnArwe> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/55082/ldp/2815
https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/55082/ldp/2815 ←
14:41:56 <JohnArwe> first part: existing spec sections cited
first part: existing spec sections cited ←
14:42:34 <Arnaud> section 5.4.4 "servers MAY allow the creation of LDPCs within a LDPC"
Arnaud Le Hors: section 5.4.4 "servers MAY allow the creation of LDPCs within a LDPC" ←
14:45:26 <JohnArwe> second part: if a member is also a container itself, and the outer container orders query results, can that ordering be defined for anything other than a non-member-property of the nested (member) container? and what if anything does LDP need to say about this?
second part: if a member is also a container itself, and the outer container orders query results, can that ordering be defined for anything other than a non-member-property of the nested (member) container? and what if anything does LDP need to say about this? ←
14:47:39 <JohnArwe> Ashok: add sentence to restrict the ordering to non-member property in this case? No other ordering is allowed b/c we don't know how it would work.
Ashok Malhotra: add sentence to restrict the ordering to non-member property in this case? No other ordering is allowed b/c we don't know how it would work. ←
14:48:41 <JohnArwe> SteveS: not sure this is hard and fast rule; adding special language for this case might add some clarity for this case, but could also confuse people who don't even see the question. seems informative not normative.
Steve Speicher: not sure this is hard and fast rule; adding special language for this case might add some clarity for this case, but could also confuse people who don't even see the question. seems informative not normative. ←
14:49:11 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: say that for the purposes of query, the members are viewed as LDPRs regardless of what other types they might have.
Arnaud Le Hors: say that for the purposes of query, the members are viewed as LDPRs regardless of what other types they might have. ←
14:49:19 <JohnArwe> SteveS: general section on ordering
Steve Speicher: general section on ordering ←
14:49:29 <JohnArwe> Ashok: also can hit best practices.
Ashok Malhotra: also can hit best practices. ←
14:50:34 <JohnArwe> SteveS: I'll handle the response
Steve Speicher: I'll handle the response ←
14:51:31 <JohnArwe> Sandro: Don't have to track in-WG comments the same way. Even if they're posted to the "external comments" list, we can just say "should have been posted to WG list" and not respond further externally, to reduce our overhead.
Sandro Hawke: Don't have to track in-WG comments the same way. Even if they're posted to the "external comments" list, we can just say "should have been posted to WG list" and not respond further externally, to reduce our overhead. ←
14:51:45 <JohnArwe> TOPIC: Patch format
14:52:39 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: summarizes history; no "real" solution arrived in time, hope something arrives in time for next spec version; how can we help ensure it really materializes in time for next version?
Arnaud Le Hors: summarizes history; no "real" solution arrived in time, hope something arrives in time for next spec version; how can we help ensure it really materializes in time for next version? ←
14:53:37 <Ashok> q+
Ashok Malhotra: q+ ←
14:53:57 <SteveS> q+
Steve Speicher: q+ ←
14:54:03 <JohnArwe> Sandro: CG sounds reasonable. "We" group can't do much, "we" individuals have to keep it moving. CG as a way to have a common place for the discussions would be useful.
Sandro Hawke: CG sounds reasonable. "We" group can't do much, "we" individuals have to keep it moving. CG as a way to have a common place for the discussions would be useful. ←
14:54:30 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: PATCH not part of LDP charter, just need to find home for the discussions.
Arnaud Le Hors: PATCH not part of LDP charter, just need to find home for the discussions. ←
14:54:55 <Ashok> Why not a task force?
Ashok Malhotra: Why not a task force? ←
14:55:38 <Arnaud> ack ashok
Arnaud Le Hors: ack ashok ←
14:56:04 <JohnArwe> Sandro: competing design goals, e.g. "just use SPARQL Update" is one answer we should expect. We didn't like that initially. If we open this up beyond LDP consensus may be hard; there are people on both sides of issues like blank nodes/not, lists/not, re-use RDF syntax(es) or not
Sandro Hawke: competing design goals, e.g. "just use SPARQL Update" is one answer we should expect. We didn't like that initially. If we open this up beyond LDP consensus may be hard; there are people on both sides of issues like blank nodes/not, lists/not, re-use RDF syntax(es) or not ←
14:56:48 <JohnArwe> Ashok: CG has overhead like joining. Task force can be lighter weight.
Ashok Malhotra: CG has overhead like joining. Task force can be lighter weight. ←
14:57:21 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: personally I'd be happy to do that, but mindful of charter. Team Contacts?
Arnaud Le Hors: personally I'd be happy to do that, but mindful of charter. Team Contacts? ←
14:58:11 <Arnaud> ack steves
Arnaud Le Hors: ack steves ←
14:58:19 <JohnArwe> Sandro: should be OK to work on it. It's relevant to chartered work, just not on right schedule for Rec-track work. Could be a Note. If you want separate mailing list I can easily create one.
Sandro Hawke: should be OK to work on it. It's relevant to chartered work, just not on right schedule for Rec-track work. Could be a Note. If you want separate mailing list I can easily create one. ←
14:59:27 <JohnArwe> SteveS: other options exist? I like keeping it under our umbrella, have use cases and people interested, not sure aside from that and CG what our options really are.
Steve Speicher: other options exist? I like keeping it under our umbrella, have use cases and people interested, not sure aside from that and CG what our options really are. ←
15:01:42 <SteveS> +1 for new list for patch
Steve Speicher: +1 for new list for patch ←
15:01:49 <stevebattle4> +1 for new list
Steve Battle: +1 for new list ←
15:01:51 <Ashok> +1
Ashok Malhotra: +1 ←
15:01:53 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: discussion of mechanics ... manually tag email threads vs new list
Arnaud Le Hors: discussion of mechanics ... manually tag email threads vs new list ←
15:01:55 <mielvds> +1 new list
Miel Vander Sande: +1 new list ←
15:02:17 <JohnArwe> action: sandro to create new mailing list for patch discussion
ACTION: sandro to create new mailing list for patch discussion ←
15:02:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-92 - Create new mailing list for patch discussion [on Sandro Hawke - due 2013-08-26].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-92 - Create new mailing list for patch discussion [on Sandro Hawke - due 2013-08-26]. ←
15:02:53 <JohnArwe> Ashok: need to publicize this work, encourage others to join to work on it
Ashok Malhotra: need to publicize this work, encourage others to join to work on it ←
15:04:16 <SteveS> +1 for public-ldp-patch mailing list, hardcore RDF patch would just be SPARQL Update?
Steve Speicher: +1 for public-ldp-patch mailing list, hardcore RDF patch would just be SPARQL Update? ←
15:05:29 <stevebattle4> Thanks, bye.
Steve Battle: Thanks, bye. ←
15:05:32 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
Zakim IRC Bot: -Ashok_Malhotra ←
15:05:33 <Zakim> -Sandro
Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←
15:05:34 <JohnArwe> fin
fin ←
15:05:35 <Zakim> -mielvds
Zakim IRC Bot: -mielvds ←
15:05:37 <Zakim> -Arnaud
Zakim IRC Bot: -Arnaud ←
15:05:37 <Zakim> -SteveBattle
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveBattle ←
15:05:38 <Zakim> -Cody
Zakim IRC Bot: -Cody ←
15:05:39 <Zakim> -roger
Zakim IRC Bot: -roger ←
15:05:40 <Zakim> -SteveS
Zakim IRC Bot: -SteveS ←
15:05:41 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
Zakim IRC Bot: -JohnArwe ←
15:05:43 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended ←
15:05:43 <Zakim> Attendees were Arnaud, SteveBattle, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, JohnArwe, mielvds, roger, Sandro, Cody
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were Arnaud, SteveBattle, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, JohnArwe, mielvds, roger, Sandro, Cody ←
Formatted by CommonScribe