14:12:35 <Karen> Sandro: Various discussion about what activities the eGov Interest Group should do

14:12:42 <Karen> ...Some consensus about the menu of projects

14:12:52 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Projects

14:12:53 <josema> sam, I have to apologize, I forgot to add openjurist to the agenda, sorry

14:12:56 <Karen> ...but not clear about which ones have people willing to sign up for actions

14:13:14 <Karen> ...I tried to use a "formalism"

14:13:18 <Karen> ...to describe each project

14:13:28 <Karen> ...who are people involved, target audience, what is problem they are having.

14:13:38 <Karen> ...what does it look like if problem is solved,

14:13:45 <Karen> ...description, status

14:13:55 <Karen> ...I did some answering on a few, but not much

14:14:04 <Karen> ...put names and short description

14:14:17 <Karen> ...If people will look at page over next week, and fill in the details about those questions

14:14:27 <Karen> ...Once filled in, we'll take to the mailing list

14:14:32 <Karen> ...and start asking people to sign up and vote

14:14:38 <Karen> ...maybe we would do a Web-based poll

14:14:43 <Karen> ...See which ones have critical mass

14:14:49 <Karen> ...and go ahead and start working on them

14:14:54 <Karen> Kevin: We have Group Charter for next eyar

14:15:01 <Karen> ...and an actvity plan

14:15:09 <Karen> ...fairly broad activities and structure

14:15:16 <Karen> ...but we want to get more measurable and focused

14:15:34 <Karen> ...hope to get from our 150 people to get behind these different areas

14:15:40 <Karen> ...I talked about this on a call about a month ago

14:15:46 <Karen> ...Reviewing these five or six areas

14:15:52 <Karen> ...Sandro has incorporated this into these points

14:16:05 <Karen> ...We wanted to get the group feedback and to help structure

14:16:18 <Karen> ...and decide how to reach our objectives

14:16:30 <Karen> ...We can talk now, or ping me or Sandro with your opinions

14:16:38 <Karen> ...That wiki page allows for group editing

14:16:45 <Karen> Sandro: Yes, please edit this page directly

14:16:52 <Karen> ...if you think you have an answer or refinement

14:16:58 <Karen> ...Email me if you have trouble using the wiki

14:17:03 <Karen> ...at sandro@w3.org

14:17:16 <Karen> Kevin: Any initial comments about the wiki page?

14:17:32 <Karen> ...We are also looking for leads for those areas

14:17:43 <Karen> ...If you want to take lead and work with a task group, please let us know

14:17:49 <sandro> List of all wiki accounts: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/index.php?title=Special:Listusers&limit=500

14:18:37 <Karen> Cory: I am in a car, so reading off the list would be helpful

14:18:43 <Karen> ...just the title of the projects

14:19:01 <Karen> Sandro: So, first one is "Government Linked Data, Techniques and Technologies"

14:20:36 <ChrisBeer> I believe I put my hand up for Best Practice last Call, however I'm happy to also do general Web stuff for the group, given that's my day-to-day anyway

14:20:44 <Karen> Brian: How do we express interest?

14:20:52 <Karen> Kevin: Send an email to one of chairs or Sandro

14:20:59 <Karen> Sandro: email to:

14:21:02 <sandro> email to team-egov-chairs@w3.org

14:21:12 <Zakim> - +1.703.362.aaee

14:21:14 <Karen> Sandro: Or put it on the wiki

14:21:40 <Zakim> + +1.703.362.aaii

14:22:00 <sandro> kevin: The first year, we tried three task groups, but the mission was very broad

14:22:01 <Karen> Kevin: We started with three task groups first of year, but we were too broad

14:22:30 <ChrisBeer> I note that in this round there is little in Education and Outreach?

14:22:55 <sandro> kevin: We're listening to those in govt who are asking us for things, eg archiving, gov 1.0 issues

14:23:59 <Karen> Sandro: Chris asks about Education and Outreach piece

14:24:18 <ChrisBeer> Just in the sense that the current TF items are OD focused.

14:24:25 <sandro> Kevin: re E&O, GLD and E&O are the main areas of our charter, but E&O is not necessary a project in itself

14:24:50 <sandro> kevin: There the editoral task force, and the comm team.

14:25:19 <sandro> kevin: Each group has an Editorial and Comms angle, they are each doing some E&O

14:25:43 <Karen> Cory: What are the landing pages for this?

14:25:52 <sandro> cory: What is the Landing Page for Linked Open Data in Government.

14:26:27 <sandro> kevin: We're working on next generation website for eGov.   We're not there yet.

14:27:04 <sandro> kevin: I took an action item to review the work done so far, and see how to restructure the wiki, so we can begin with that.

14:27:09 <josema> for example, I see Web Tech and some of GLD Strategy as part of E&O area

14:27:50 <sandro> kevin: We had ambitious goals to get that done before the Gov2.0 summit, but due to various other changes in staffing and other people's projects, that didn't happen, but I think now we're back on track to have this happen before the holidays.

14:28:19 <Karen> Sandro: Does anyone have anything else to say about the Projects Page?

14:28:25 <Karen> ...Then we'll move onto the Web site discussion

14:28:50 <Karen> Brian: After more people look at it, we can pick it up 9 Dec.

14:28:50 <josema> chair: kevin

14:29:12 <sandro> topic: Web Site

14:29:16 <josema> +1 to Brian

14:29:35 <Karen> Cory: I would like a persistent journal for LOD in Gov't

14:29:47 <Karen> ...external links and landing page to collect overviews, white papers, success stories

14:30:28 <ChrisBeer> Can we collaborate work with LOD Project in this? Joint web space?

14:30:34 <sandro> kevin: Yes, we're very open to folks helping with the content.

14:31:15 <sandro> Interesting question ChrisBeer.     Maybe easiest to have some of them join the IG.

14:32:03 <josema> original plan was to have some LOD people joining this group, have a specific TF working on LGD

14:34:03 <ChrisBeer> @Jose - if no one else is already a LoD member, I can join list and post a recruitment blurb?

14:31:39 <sandro> Topic: What's going on / coming up

14:32:01 <sandro> subtopic: FOSE 2010

14:32:11 <sandro> panel like at gov 2.0 summit

14:32:17 <sandro> kevin: I'll be leading up interop

14:32:26 <sandro> kevin: Daniel and John will be on it, too.

14:32:39 <hg> Collaboration is good - already many places to put things - LOD, OK, ...

14:32:42 <sandro> kevin: I was happy to have that panel approved.

14:33:18 <josema> yup, kudos and thx Karen, Vera for all the help and support

14:31:55 <sandro> subtopic: Gov 2.0 Expo

14:33:22 <sandro> karen: I'm invited to be on the program committee for Gov 2.0 Expo, so I'll have more on that soon.

14:34:16 <Zakim> +??P9

14:34:18 <sandro> kevin: I'd like to refocus back on international issues; we've talked mostly about US and UK recently.   We have other countries represented in IG, and I'd like their voices expressed at the Expo

14:34:48 <sandro> kevin: Let's get some proposals to get that word out.

14:34:49 <tb> http://www.eswc2010.org end of may in greece, submit abstracts till 15, Dec

14:35:09 <Karen> Sandro: There are a few other agenda items, like W3C's TPAC

14:35:09 <sandro> subtopic: TPAC 2009

14:35:41 <sandro> kevin: Alas, I got the flu and couldn't travel, so the eGov panel at TPAC was cancelled

14:35:54 <sandro> karen: 1-1 followup with individuals

14:35:59 <ChrisBeer> I have some good e-gov contacts here in Aust - I can certainly pass the word along

14:36:06 <josema> @ChrisBeer certainly, although I believe we have a few around already (Leigh Dodds and Jim Hendler come to mind)

14:36:21 <ChrisBeer> @jose nps

14:36:32 <sandro> karen: Definitely interest, but not clear for some folks how to plug in, so focus on projects is good.

14:37:20 <sandro> Kevin: I'm working on a byline piece for NextGov, to clarify my controversial statements about PDF

14:38:13 <sandro> kevin: Alan Morison from PWC is doing a piece on DataWeb as OS, . . . find him on twitter or msg me.

14:38:40 <sandro> subtopic: ISWC

14:38:41 <Karen> Sandro: Int'l Semantic Web Conference (ISWC)

14:38:52 <Karen> ...I met Daniel and Cory there

14:38:59 <Karen> ...we talked for a while, along with some others

14:39:04 <Karen> ...nothing formally related to eGov

14:39:07 <Zakim> + +1.410.992.aajj

14:39:19 <Karen> ...ISWC was near Washington, DC, so convenient location

14:39:28 <Karen> Cory: I did a presentation on linked open data architecture

14:39:42 <Karen> ...I think there was one other eGov focused presentation, but not a specific track

14:39:44 <sandro> (Also George, and Brand)

14:39:57 <Karen> ...we are interested in more outreach here

14:40:14 <Karen> ...and action items to further the LOD for Open Gov't initiatives going on now

14:40:32 <Karen> ...George Thomas, myself, Brand Niemann involved, a few others

14:41:12 <Karen> q+

14:41:15 <sandro> Hg: the NYT announcement at ISWC of them doing LD version of their structure -- that's probably pretty important.

14:41:25 <sandro> hg: good when talking to Gov folks.

14:41:38 <sandro> ack Karen

14:41:55 <ChrisBeer> We just had a e-Gov mashup conference and competition here in Aust. under the auspices of Gov 2.0 Taskforce. Very successful, saw a lot interagency/private/ngo contact. Mashup competition certainly got people excited.

14:42:38 <sandro> karen: The Guardian is also doing a big LD project.   So we may want to look at publishing side more.     Media Properties are active here.

14:42:54 <sandro> Hg: NYT is already doing the LD landgrab

14:43:27 <ChrisBeer> http://mashupaustralia.org/ - prehaps we could do similar as outreach?

14:43:34 <sandro> Cory: I also thought that was a great announcement.  Maybe we can do a use case / success story.

14:43:46 <Karen> Sandro: Any upcoming events

14:43:50 <sandro> subtopic: Open Knowledge Foundation event [13 Nov 2009, London]

14:43:58 <Karen> ...Does anyone know?

14:44:04 <Karen> Hg:

14:44:15 <josema> http://blog.okfn.org/2009/11/20/after-the-open-data-and-semantic-web-workshop/

14:44:35 <josema> (I was not in attendance)

14:44:48 <sandro> Hg: Linked Data meets Open Knowledge.    Highly interactive, quite good.   The Open Knowledge enjoyed the linked data side.   Good bridging.

14:45:18 <sandro> Hg: Some pushback from eGov and OpenKnowledge giving a little pushback on RDF.   About 40 people from various places.    Good discussion.

14:45:33 <ChrisBeer> q+

14:45:41 <sandro> ack ChrisBeer

14:46:01 <ChrisBeer> Managing the Australian Governments IT Requirements - 8 Dec 2009

14:46:02 <ChrisBeer> http://www.finance.gov.au/e-government/better-practice-and-collaboration/events/2009/managing_the_australian_governments_it_requirements.html

14:46:30 <ChrisBeer> will report back, includes addresses from Aust. Gov 2.0 taskforce and others

14:46:58 <sandro> subtopic: Jurix Conference

14:47:10 <sandro> sandro: anyone?

14:48:12 <owen> http://www.conftool.net/jurix09/sessions.php

14:48:31 <sandro> brian: Jurix is a european conference about legal matters; I don't know more than their website

14:49:05 <sandro> brian: specifically judicial branch

14:47:32 <sandro> subtopic: PdF Europe 2009

14:48:46 <josema> I spoke at PdF Europe 2009, gave a "weird" talk, a tale about transparency

14:48:46 <josema> http://blog.josema.net/2009/11/21/releasing-peoples-data/

14:49:31 <josema> conference was interesting with several strategy talks and discussions

14:49:56 <josema> several projects from activists was also presented, many well known such as http://www.farmsubsidy.org

14:50:22 <josema> networking was the best part, lots of discussion between gov people, NGOs, etc.

14:50:02 <sandro> Topic: Discussion: Government Linked Data, Techniques and Technologies

<sandro> Summary: Sam Deskin described what Open Jurist is doing, using Calias to extract semantic information from public legal records in the US, and their plans to make it available publicly.   Lively discussion about how to do this and related issues.

14:51:30 <sandro> sandro: (reads agenda text on this)

Sandro Hawke: (reads agenda text on this) ←

14:52:43 <sandro> sam: How much is this about open jurist?

Samuel Deskin: How much is this about open jurist? ←

14:52:56 <sandro> sandro: It's here for general discussion

Sandro Hawke: It's here for general discussion ←

14:53:20 <sandro> sam: Shall I give Open Jurist as a discussion point?

Samuel Deskin: Shall I give Open Jurist as a discussion point? ←

14:54:12 <sandro> sam: Open Jurist is website with about 650,000 supreme court, appelate court, and district court cases, from the 1700s to current -- open data, freely available

Samuel Deskin: Open Jurist is website with about 650,000 supreme court, appelate court, and district court cases, from the 1700s to current -- open data, freely available ←

14:54:26 <sandro> sam: What we're going that's a bit different is

Samuel Deskin: What we're going that's a bit different is ←

14:54:49 <sandro> ... We've gone through with Calais, and identified 14m semantic terms: people's name, places, occupations, etc.

... We've gone through with Calais, and identified 14m semantic terms: people's name, places, occupations, etc. ←

14:54:57 <sandro> ... many different categories

... many different categories ←

14:55:13 <sandro> ... we plan on using these semantic points to let people access the data in new and different ways

... we plan on using these semantic points to let people access the data in new and different ways ←

14:55:26 <sandro> ... the cases are currently linked to each as they refer to each other

... the cases are currently linked to each as they refer to each other ←

14:55:32 <josema> s/from activists was/from activists were

14:55:42 <Zakim> +??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: +??P15 ←

14:55:48 <sandro> ... our next phase is to put US Code up on the web, and link to that

... our next phase is to put US Code up on the web, and link to that ←

14:55:57 <sandro> ... so we'll have both code law and case law

... so we'll have both code law and case law ←

14:56:06 <sandro> ... then we want to bring in the semantic web

... then we want to bring in the semantic web ←

14:56:19 <sandro> ... i'm an attorney, not a semantic web expert

... i'm an attorney, not a semantic web expert ←

14:56:26 <sandro> ... we'd like to do it right and do it well

... we'd like to do it right and do it well ←

14:56:40 <sandro> ... so we're looking for how to do that, to make it most useful to people

... so we're looking for how to do that, to make it most useful to people ←

14:57:21 <sandro> kevin: Maybe talk to Joe Carmel.   He's taken US Code data (rosetta stone) and done something interesting

Kevin Novak: Maybe talk to Joe Carmel. He's taken US Code data (rosetta stone) and done something interesting ←

14:57:43 <sandro> joe: Let's talk off line about that.   joe.carmel@comcast.net

Joe Carmel: Let's talk off line about that. joe.carmel@comcast.net ←

14:58:03 <sandro> kevin: Joe is an incredible resource

Kevin Novak: Joe is an incredible resource ←

14:58:11 <josema> zakim, code?

José Alonso: zakim, code? ←

14:58:11 <Zakim> the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), josema

Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), josema ←

14:58:15 <sandro> sam: We've "semanticised" these cases

Samuel Deskin: We've "semanticised" these cases ←

14:58:40 <sandro> sam: We hope to be able to link things together in ways they haven't been linked before.    Names, dates, ....

Samuel Deskin: We hope to be able to link things together in ways they haven't been linked before. Names, dates, .... ←

14:58:55 <sandro> sam: So we can order and connect all the cases that are about John Hamilton

Samuel Deskin: So we can order and connect all the cases that are about John Hamilton ←

14:59:06 <Zakim> + +03498429aakk

Zakim IRC Bot: + +03498429aakk ←

14:59:15 <sandro> sam: We've got a long way to go

Samuel Deskin: We've got a long way to go ←

14:59:24 <josema> zakim, aakk is me

José Alonso: zakim, aakk is me ←

14:59:24 <Zakim> +josema; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +josema; got it ←

15:00:11 <Karen> Sandro: I haven't used Calais

Sandro Hawke: I haven't used Calais [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:00:18 <Karen> ...I believe they have a set of identifiers they use

Karen Myers: ...I believe they have a set of identifiers they use ←

15:00:26 <Karen> ...not sure if they let you use your own

Karen Myers: ...not sure if they let you use your own ←

15:02:49 <Karen> Sandro: It seems Sam is focused on the user experience

Sandro Hawke: It seems Sam is focused on the user experience [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:03:00 <Karen> ...not the underlying technology of how RDF is available

Karen Myers: ...not the underlying technology of how RDF is available ←

15:03:39 <sandro> sam: we got it from resource.org

Samuel Deskin: we got it from resource.org ←

15:03:54 <sandro> joe: not from law revision council?

Joe Carmel: not from law revision council? ←

15:05:09 <sandro> sam: people have done this linking between cases, and cases-and-code, but we're not sure folks have done it for free before

Samuel Deskin: people have done this linking between cases, and cases-and-code, but we're not sure folks have done it for free before ←

15:05:27 <sandro> sam: and we're trying to make it available in new and different ways

Samuel Deskin: and we're trying to make it available in new and different ways ←

15:06:49 <sandro> sam: Our goal is to make the data useful in ways that are not available now.    EG: show me all the cases from the 1960s that mention ACLU and that are about securing the release of inmates in overcrowded prisons and that the ACLU won, and tell me which states the ACLU won.

Samuel Deskin: Our goal is to make the data useful in ways that are not available now. EG: show me all the cases from the 1960s that mention ACLU and that are about securing the release of inmates in overcrowded prisons and that the ACLU won, and tell me which states the ACLU won. ←

15:07:03 <sandro> sam: And then How do those cases affect crime in those states vs other states

Samuel Deskin: And then How do those cases affect crime in those states vs other states ←

15:07:11 <sandro> (WOW, I like that use case!)

(WOW, I like that use case!) ←

15:07:35 <Karen> Sandro: That sounds like a great thing to do

Sandro Hawke: That sounds like a great thing to do [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:07:45 <Karen> Brian: Sam, any future plans to include the underlying briefs?

Brian Gryth: Sam, any future plans to include the underlying briefs? [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:07:52 <Karen> ...Recent ABA decisions

Karen Myers: ...Recent ABA decisions ←

15:07:59 <Karen> ...have a connection through US Supreme Court

Karen Myers: ...have a connection through US Supreme Court ←

15:08:09 <Karen> ...so that briefs, amicus briefs, are available in PDF

Karen Myers: ...so that briefs, amicus briefs, are available in PDF ←

15:08:14 <Karen> ...so at least info is available

Karen Myers: ...so at least info is available ←

15:08:18 <Karen> ...any plans to go deeper?

Karen Myers: ...any plans to go deeper? ←

15:08:25 <Karen> ...would help public, not just lawyers

Karen Myers: ...would help public, not just lawyers ←

15:08:33 <Karen> ...how judicial system works even more seems helpful

Karen Myers: ...how judicial system works even more seems helpful ←

15:08:41 <Karen> ...seems you are also going to look at connecting up with

Karen Myers: ...seems you are also going to look at connecting up with ←

15:08:50 <Karen> ...taking deeper and more information seems a useful resource

Karen Myers: ...taking deeper and more information seems a useful resource ←

15:08:54 <sandro> q?

q? ←

15:08:58 <Karen> Sam: I am completely open to other sources

Samuel Deskin: I am completely open to other sources [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:09:04 <Karen> ...and pulling more things in, linking to more things

Karen Myers: ...and pulling more things in, linking to more things ←

15:09:13 <Karen> ...I was not aware of the amicus briefs that the ABA has

Karen Myers: ...I was not aware of the amicus briefs that the ABA has ←

15:09:17 <Karen> ...I will search on Google

Karen Myers: ...I will search on Google ←

15:09:23 <Karen> Brian: I'll give you my email

Brian Gryth: I'll give you my email [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:09:46 <sandro> brian: briangryth@gmail.com

Brian Gryth: briangryth@gmail.com ←

15:09:47 <Karen> ...Very interesting project; I'm an attorney as well, but no technical experience

Karen Myers: ...Very interesting project; I'm an attorney as well, but no technical experience ←

15:10:00 <Karen> Sam: Finding the data is a big hurdle

Samuel Deskin: Finding the data is a big hurdle [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:10:01 <anne> This is perfect case study. How do we give someone like Sam the best technology advice?

Anne Washington: This is perfect case study. How do we give someone like Sam the best technology advice? ←

15:10:04 <Karen> ...I don't know where the data is

Karen Myers: ...I don't know where the data is ←

15:10:08 <anne> so he can talk data types and identifiers.

Anne Washington: so he can talk data types and identifiers. ←

15:10:15 <Karen> ...I just found out that Google has managed to get every state's case law

Karen Myers: ...I just found out that Google has managed to get every state's case law ←

15:10:23 <Karen> ...We go back to 1700's for the Federal Gov't

Karen Myers: ...We go back to 1700's for the Federal Gov't ←

15:10:29 <Karen> ...We have been looking for this stuff forever

Karen Myers: ...We have been looking for this stuff forever ←

15:10:33 <Karen> ...We're not Google

Karen Myers: ...We're not Google ←

15:10:37 <Karen> ...If it's out there, it's out there

Karen Myers: ...If it's out there, it's out there ←

15:10:46 <Karen> Brian: I think they use Google Scholar; go to advance search

Brian Gryth: I think they use Google Scholar; go to advance search [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:10:54 <Karen> Sam: I've seen their data, but not sure where they got it from

Samuel Deskin: I've seen their data, but not sure where they got it from [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:11:04 <Karen> Brian: There are projects in Colorado on getting historical information

Brian Gryth: There are projects in Colorado on getting historical information [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:11:10 <Karen> ...Some of law schools doing that

Karen Myers: ...Some of law schools doing that ←

15:11:28 <Karen> Sam: Cases we have from 1700's and 1800's are PDFs online

Samuel Deskin: Cases we have from 1700's and 1800's are PDFs online [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:11:32 <Karen> ...readable online

Karen Myers: ...readable online ←

15:11:43 <Karen> ...the OCR of them

Karen Myers: ...the OCR of them ←

15:11:45 <Karen> ...are crap

Karen Myers: ...are crap ←

15:12:00 <Karen> ...So actually being able to search and find what you are looking for is a shot in the dark

Karen Myers: ...So actually being able to search and find what you are looking for is a shot in the dark ←

15:12:09 <Karen> ...I don't know too many other people are putting this stuff up there

Karen Myers: ...I don't know too many other people are putting this stuff up there ←

15:12:13 <Karen> ...We are trying our best

Karen Myers: ...We are trying our best ←

15:12:18 <Karen> ...dealing with what we have got

Karen Myers: ...dealing with what we have got ←

15:12:24 <Karen> ...OYEZ.com or .og

Karen Myers: ...OYEZ.com or .og ←

15:12:35 <Karen> ...has information like audio recordings of Supreme Court cases

Karen Myers: ...has information like audio recordings of Supreme Court cases ←

15:12:38 <Karen> ...from inside the court

Karen Myers: ...from inside the court ←

15:12:42 <sandro> http://www.oyez.org/

http://www.oyez.org/ ←

15:12:46 <Karen> ...We have toyed with linking to that as well

Karen Myers: ...We have toyed with linking to that as well ←

15:12:58 <Karen> ...we are on the beginning of uphill climb on a large mountain

Karen Myers: ...we are on the beginning of uphill climb on a large mountain ←

15:13:04 <Karen> Brian: It is .org

Brian Gryth: It is .org [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:13:27 <Karen> Sam: First priority is to make available to the public

Samuel Deskin: First priority is to make available to the public [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:13:30 <Karen> ...so they know it's out there

Karen Myers: ...so they know it's out there ←

15:13:36 <Karen> ...then make available to other uses

Karen Myers: ...then make available to other uses ←

15:13:44 <Karen> ...any thoughts there?

Karen Myers: ...any thoughts there? ←

15:13:49 <sandro> sam: using drupal

Samuel Deskin: using drupal ←

15:13:51 <Karen> ...We are running system on DRUPAL

Karen Myers: ...We are running system on DRUPAL ←

15:14:14 <Karen> Sandro: Someone id themselves?

Sandro Hawke: Someone id themselves? [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:14:19 <sandro> zakim, aagg is Hugh

zakim, aagg is Hugh ←

15:14:19 <Zakim> +Hugh; got it

Zakim IRC Bot: +Hugh; got it ←

15:14:26 <sandro> ack hugh

ack hugh ←

15:14:28 <sandro> ack

ack ←

15:14:31 <sandro> ack aagg

ack aagg ←

15:14:35 <Karen> +1 fabulous use case

Karen Myers: +1 fabulous use case ←

15:14:41 <sandro> ack +0789422aagg

ack +0789422aagg ←

15:15:09 <sandro> hg: This is a great use case.   The first thing you need is give IRIs to the things you want to identify

Hugh Glaser: This is a great use case. The first thing you need is give IRIs to the things you want to identify ←

15:15:11 <owen> mib_ymI9i4 is Owen Ambur

Owen Ambur: mib_ymI9i4 is Owen Ambur ←

15:15:41 <sandro> sam: So each term has a web page people can go to?

Samuel Deskin: So each term has a web page people can go to? ←

15:15:56 <sandro> hg: Probably, but in our world there's RDF behind each page

Hugh Glaser: Probably, but in our world there's RDF behind each page ←

15:16:40 <sandro> sam: the RDF from calais doubled our database after just going through 10%

Samuel Deskin: the RDF from calais doubled our database after just going through 10% ←

15:17:01 <sandro> hg: technical questions about how to represent the RDF

Hugh Glaser: technical questions about how to represent the RDF ←

15:17:36 <sandro> hg: What you now have is a whole bunch of RDF; some technical issues there.   You've done a lot of the hard work, extracting the RDF.  Now the question is how you publish it, making it available.

Hugh Glaser: What you now have is a whole bunch of RDF; some technical issues there. You've done a lot of the hard work, extracting the RDF. Now the question is how you publish it, making it available. ←

15:17:50 <sandro> hg: There are two overlapping ways to make it available

Hugh Glaser: There are two overlapping ways to make it available ←

15:18:54 <sandro> sam: we have a huge list of medical conditions extracted, for instance

Samuel Deskin: we have a huge list of medical conditions extracted, for instance ←

15:19:08 <sandro> hg: The kind of complex query you're talking about is where SPARQL would come in

Hugh Glaser: The kind of complex query you're talking about is where SPARQL would come in ←

15:19:24 <sandro> hg: SPARQL enables systems to make those sorts of queries.

Hugh Glaser: SPARQL enables systems to make those sorts of queries. ←

15:19:44 <sandro> hg: So you might give a nice page to users, but then how to do you do it?   Use SPARQL.

Hugh Glaser: So you might give a nice page to users, but then how to do you do it? Use SPARQL. ←

15:19:57 <sandro> q?

q? ←

15:20:52 <Karen> Sandro: There is this issue in RDF

Sandro Hawke: There is this issue in RDF [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:21:03 <Karen> ...you have all these diseases, like skin cancer

Karen Myers: ...you have all these diseases, like skin cancer ←

15:21:13 <Karen> ...and a Web page on your site about skin cancer, and that page will have a URL

Karen Myers: ...and a Web page on your site about skin cancer, and that page will have a URL ←

15:21:24 <Karen> ...but also internally there has to be a differnt URI that IDs skin cancer

Karen Myers: ...but also internally there has to be a differnt URI that IDs skin cancer ←

15:21:30 <Karen> ...to join to other data about skin cancer

Karen Myers: ...to join to other data about skin cancer ←

15:21:35 <Karen> ...that needs to be different

Karen Myers: ...that needs to be different ←

15:21:41 <Karen> ...every concept has two URLs

Karen Myers: ...every concept has two URLs ←

15:21:48 <Karen> ...one internal knowledge representations

Karen Myers: ...one internal knowledge representations ←

15:21:56 <Karen> ...and the other the user interface about the thing

Karen Myers: ...and the other the user interface about the thing ←

15:22:02 <Karen> ...This is what you come across working with RDF

Karen Myers: ...This is what you come across working with RDF ←

15:22:08 <Karen> ...it does get tricky some times

Karen Myers: ...it does get tricky some times ←

15:22:11 <Karen> ...ways to make them usable

Karen Myers: ...ways to make them usable ←

15:22:28 <Karen> Sam: the one internal knowledge based page, is like an XML page?

Samuel Deskin: the one internal knowledge based page, is like an XML page? [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:22:41 <Karen> Sandro: That internal is identifier, not necessarily a page

Sandro Hawke: That internal is identifier, not necessarily a page [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:22:49 <Karen> ...you could present a page of data or present SPARQL

Karen Myers: ...you could present a page of data or present SPARQL ←

15:22:57 <Karen> ? who is speaking?

Karen Myers: ? who is speaking? ←

15:23:07 <Karen> Sandro: Like a data base key, an ID number

Sandro Hawke: Like a data base key, an ID number [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:23:18 <Karen> Joe: When you want to refer to skin cancer, you refer to that ID

Joe Carmel: When you want to refer to skin cancer, you refer to that ID [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:23:25 <Karen> ...all the skin cancers have that common iD

Karen Myers: ...all the skin cancers have that common iD ←

15:23:31 <Karen> ...so you can still refer to that ID

Karen Myers: ...so you can still refer to that ID ←

15:23:38 <Karen> Sandro: You can use same ID as Wikipedia

Sandro Hawke: You can use same ID as Wikipedia [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:23:45 <josema> http://www.w3.org/TR/cooluris/

José Alonso: http://www.w3.org/TR/cooluris/ ←

15:23:45 <Karen> ...or say the two are same as and connects the data

Karen Myers: ...or say the two are same as and connects the data ←

15:23:57 <Karen> ...Is there a place on Wikipedia?

Karen Myers: ...Is there a place on Wikipedia? ←

15:24:02 <sandro> dbpedia.org

dbpedia.org ←

15:24:04 <Karen> Sandro: dBpedia

Sandro Hawke: dBpedia [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:24:21 <Karen> ...If you play with dbpedia, you will see the URLs and those that parallel them

Karen Myers: ...If you play with dbpedia, you will see the URLs and those that parallel them ←

15:24:26 <Karen> Joe: The same?

Joe Carmel: The same? [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:24:33 <hg> http://dbpedia.org/resource/Skin_cancer

Hugh Glaser: http://dbpedia.org/resource/Skin_cancer ←

15:24:33 <Karen> Sandro: No, generating their own IDs

Sandro Hawke: No, generating their own IDs [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:24:39 <Karen> Jose: So a separate URi

José Alonso: So a separate URi [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:24:48 <Karen> ...just point to Wikipedia as one of the resources

Karen Myers: ...just point to Wikipedia as one of the resources ←

15:24:51 <Karen> Sandro: Exactly

Sandro Hawke: Exactly [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:24:57 <Karen> ...Hugh just pasted the URI

Karen Myers: ...Hugh just pasted the URI ←

15:25:07 <Karen> Sandro: Log will be availble and I will email

Sandro Hawke: Log will be availble and I will email [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:25:08 <Karen> q+

Karen Myers: q+ ←

15:25:16 <sandro> ack Karen

ack Karen ←

15:25:44 <josema> I love this discussion since it really reflects what is happening out there and the role this group can play in helping people

José Alonso: I love this discussion since it really reflects what is happening out there and the role this group can play in helping people ←

15:25:52 <sandro> karen: This has been a fascinating discussion, both technically, and the legal stuff.    I'm interesting in comm side.

Karen Myers: This has been a fascinating discussion, both technically, and the legal stuff. I'm interesting in comm side. ←

15:26:13 <Karen> Sandro: Mostly we use the mailing list

Sandro Hawke: Mostly we use the mailing list [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:26:23 <sandro> sam: I sent an e-mail about this on Nov 5.

Samuel Deskin: I sent an e-mail about this on Nov 5. ←

15:26:34 <sandro> sam: "open jurist" e-mail

Samuel Deskin: "open jurist" e-mail ←

15:26:55 <Zakim> - +1.509.464.aaff

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.509.464.aaff ←

15:27:04 <sandro> joe: One of our goals is to prepare a product that help gov't prepare their data for folks like open jurist

Joe Carmel: One of our goals is to prepare a product that help gov't prepare their data for folks like open jurist ←

15:27:09 <Karen> +1

Karen Myers: +1 ←

15:27:10 <anne> +1 Joe carmel and kevin

Anne Washington: +1 Joe carmel and kevin ←

15:27:13 <josema> sam's openjurist intro message: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2009Nov/0008

José Alonso: sam's openjurist intro message: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-egov-ig/2009Nov/0008 ←

15:27:35 <josema> +1

José Alonso: +1 ←

15:28:16 <sandro> sam: It seems like if you have deep enough pockets (eg Google) the data is out there!        Maybe they got the case books and scanned them.   That's way beyond our financial capacity.

Samuel Deskin: It seems like if you have deep enough pockets (eg Google) the data is out there! Maybe they got the case books and scanned them. That's way beyond our financial capacity. ←

15:29:03 <sandro> brian: You often have to pay to look up the information, from a secondary source that's republishing.

Brian Gryth: You often have to pay to look up the information, from a secondary source that's republishing. ←

15:29:25 <josema> this scanning part reminds me somewhat of LoC's Chronicling America <http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/> but no idea if they are planning on doing any LOD

José Alonso: this scanning part reminds me somewhat of LoC's Chronicling America <http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/> but no idea if they are planning on doing any LOD ←

15:29:44 <sandro> joe: The gov't isn't providing the data in a good format, so folks have to use these 3rd party secondary sources.

Joe Carmel: The gov't isn't providing the data in a good format, so folks have to use these 3rd party secondary sources. ←

15:29:57 <Karen> When Sandro and I attended O'Reilly Gov 2.0 Summit, Carl Malamud was very keen on getting law data public

Karen Myers: When Sandro and I attended O'Reilly Gov 2.0 Summit, Carl Malamud was very keen on getting law data public ←

15:30:11 <sandro> (Carl was a keynote speaker)

(Carl was a keynote speaker) ←

15:30:19 <Karen> He is against paying for so much public legal data

Karen Myers: He is against paying for so much public legal data ←

15:30:36 <sandro> kevin: Sam, why don't you re-send your e-mail.

Kevin Novak: Sam, why don't you re-send your e-mail. ←

15:30:48 <sandro> kevin: Good, energizing discussion.   :-)

Kevin Novak: Good, energizing discussion. :-) ←

15:31:03 <sandro> kevin: Please review the Project page and help us keep things moving forward

Kevin Novak: Please review the Project page and help us keep things moving forward ←

15:31:16 <sandro> kevin: Lots of gov't contacting us, US Gov't meetings

Kevin Novak: Lots of gov't contacting us, US Gov't meetings ←

15:31:24 <josema> thanks so much, kevin, sandro, karen for taking care of chairing and scribing; apologies again

José Alonso: thanks so much, kevin, sandro, karen for taking care of chairing and scribing; apologies again ←

15:31:28 <sandro> kevin: The faster we are, the better we'll be able to help.

Kevin Novak: The faster we are, the better we'll be able to help. ←

15:31:39 <Karen> Sandro: No action items

Sandro Hawke: No action items [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:32:47 <Karen> Sam: We would welcome additional sources of funding; we are self-funding currently

Samuel Deskin: We would welcome additional sources of funding; we are self-funding currently [ Scribe Assist by Karen Myers ] ←

15:33:13 <sandro> sam: We are doing this self-funded.   We plan on figuring out a way to monetize this, without ever charging for access to the cases.   If there is some source of funding to encourage this kind of stuff, that would be helpful, so we could scale this much faster!   We're doing it ourselves because it's useful and fun an interesting, but we could push it faster with outside help/funding, so we could hire the right developers, get servers, etc!

Samuel Deskin: We are doing this self-funded. We plan on figuring out a way to monetize this, without ever charging for access to the cases. If there is some source of funding to encourage this kind of stuff, that would be helpful, so we could scale this much faster! We're doing it ourselves because it's useful and fun an interesting, but we could push it faster with outside help/funding, so we could hire the right developers, get servers, etc! ←

15:33:35 <sandro> on irc josema believes Sunlight funds some projects like this from time to time, maybe others do the same

on irc josema believes Sunlight funds some projects like this from time to time, maybe others do the same ←

15:34:21 <sandro> kevin: google and a library - no money, but an access deal

Kevin Novak: google and a library - no money, but an access deal ←

15:34:34 <sandro> kevin: John Needham

Kevin Novak: John Needham ←

15:34:37 <Zakim> -??P15

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P15 ←

15:34:52 <Zakim> - +1.703.362.aaii

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.703.362.aaii ←

15:34:54 <sandro> ADJOURN

ADJOURN ←

15:35:02 <Zakim> - +1.303.748.aahh

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.303.748.aahh ←

15:35:07 <Zakim> - +1.202.731.aaaa

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.202.731.aaaa ←

15:35:08 <hg> Thanks guys - good discussion.

Hugh Glaser: Thanks guys - good discussion. ←

15:35:09 <Zakim> -Karen

Zakim IRC Bot: -Karen ←

15:35:11 <Zakim> -??P8

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P8 ←

15:35:11 <Zakim> - +49.178.404.aadd

Zakim IRC Bot: - +49.178.404.aadd ←

15:35:12 <Zakim> -Sandro

Zakim IRC Bot: -Sandro ←

15:35:13 <Zakim> - +1.410.992.aajj

Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.410.992.aajj ←

15:35:13 <Zakim> -hg

Zakim IRC Bot: -hg ←

15:35:16 <sandro> indeed.  thanks all!

indeed. thanks all! ←

15:35:20 <Zakim> -??P9

Zakim IRC Bot: -??P9 ←

15:35:22 <Zakim> -josema

Zakim IRC Bot: -josema ←

15:35:22 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended

Zakim IRC Bot: T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended ←

15:35:23 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.202.731.aaaa, +0789422aabb, +0789422aacc, Karen, +49.178.404.aadd, +1.703.362.aaee, +1.509.464.aaff, +0789422aagg, +1.303.748.aahh, Sandro, +1.703.362.aaii,

Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.202.731.aaaa, +0789422aabb, +0789422aacc, Karen, +49.178.404.aadd, +1.703.362.aaee, +1.509.464.aaff, +0789422aagg, +1.303.748.aahh, Sandro, +1.703.362.aaii, ←

15:35:25 <Zakim> ... +1.410.992.aajj, +03498429aakk, josema, hg

Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.410.992.aajj, +03498429aakk, josema, hg ←

15:35:27 <sandro> RRSAgent, make logs public

RRSAgent, make logs public ←

15:36:26 <anne> disconnect

Anne Washington: disconnect ←

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