None.
13:59:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/17-egov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/12/17-egov-irc ←
13:59:53 <josema> trackbot, start telcon
José Alonso: trackbot, start telcon ←
13:59:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
13:59:59 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be EGOV
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be EGOV ←
13:59:59 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot; I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute ←
14:00:00 <trackbot> Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
14:00:00 <trackbot> Date: 17 December 2008
14:00:07 <josema> chair: john, kevin
14:00:15 <josema> regrets: owen, martin, kjetil
14:01:02 <josema> regrets+ rinke
José Alonso: regrets+ rinke ←
14:01:09 <josema> zakim, who's here?
José Alonso: zakim, who's here? ←
14:01:09 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has not yet started, josema
Zakim IRC Bot: T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has not yet started, josema ←
14:01:10 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, josema, Rachel, trackbot, kjetil
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, josema, Rachel, trackbot, kjetil ←
14:01:16 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has now started
Zakim IRC Bot: T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has now started ←
14:01:23 <Zakim> + +1.202.488.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.202.488.aaaa ←
14:01:25 <josema> zakim, call josema-office
José Alonso: zakim, call josema-office ←
14:01:25 <Zakim> ok, josema; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, josema; the call is being made ←
14:01:26 <Zakim> +Josema
Zakim IRC Bot: +Josema ←
14:02:05 <josema> zakim, aaaa is chris
José Alonso: zakim, aaaa is chris ←
14:02:05 <Zakim> +chris; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +chris; got it ←
14:02:11 <Zakim> + +1.509.464.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.464.aabb ←
14:02:48 <josema> aabb is rachel
José Alonso: aabb is rachel ←
14:02:57 <josema> zakim, aabb is rachel
José Alonso: zakim, aabb is rachel ←
14:02:57 <Zakim> +rachel; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +rachel; got it ←
14:04:55 <Zakim> +john
Zakim IRC Bot: +john ←
14:06:59 <josema> scribe: josema
(Scribe set to José Alonso)
14:07:46 <josema> agenda+ agenda adjustments
agenda+ agenda adjustments ←
14:07:56 <josema> agenda+ outline of document
agenda+ outline of document ←
14:08:04 <josema> agenda+ open actions
agenda+ open actions ←
14:08:07 <josema> agenda+ next meeting
agenda+ next meeting ←
14:08:21 <josema> agenda?
agenda? ←
14:08:46 <josema> josema: scribing as usual... oh, well...
José Alonso: scribing as usual... oh, well... ←
14:08:50 <josema> agenda?
agenda? ←
14:10:07 <josema> zakim, move to next agendum
zakim, move to next agendum ←
14:10:07 <Zakim> agendum 1. "agenda adjustments" taken up [from josema]
14:10:35 <josema> john: any?
John Sheridan: any? ←
14:10:56 <josema> josema: reminding people of dates and location of 2nd F2F
José Alonso: reminding people of dates and location of 2nd F2F ←
14:11:04 <josema> ... proposed 12-13 March at AIA in DC, USA
... proposed 12-13 March at AIA in DC, USA ←
14:11:13 <josema> ... please, send feedback
... please, send feedback ←
14:11:16 <josema> chris: good for me
Christopher Testa: good for me ←
14:11:42 <josema> rachel: good for me, hope I could find funding to go there
Rachel Flagg: good for me, hope I could find funding to go there ←
14:12:33 <josema> john: please, let us know if we can help to justify the importance of the trip
John Sheridan: please, let us know if we can help to justify the importance of the trip ←
14:12:41 <josema> zakim, move to next agendum
zakim, move to next agendum ←
14:12:41 <Zakim> agendum 2. "outline of document" taken up [from josema]
14:13:14 <josema> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Group_Note
http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Group_Note ←
14:14:03 <john> josema: we have outline, not spectacular yet, outline taken from relevant messages from mailing list, use cases and wiki
José Alonso: we have outline, not spectacular yet, outline taken from relevant messages from mailing list, use cases and wiki [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:14:54 <john> josema: difficult to categorise the issues, we have many different dimensions of view
José Alonso: difficult to categorise the issues, we have many different dimensions of view [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:16:08 <john> josema: some conversation are out of scope for W3C as policy related. Aim to show how to use W3C standards in a good way
José Alonso: some conversation are out of scope for W3C as policy related. Aim to show how to use W3C standards in a good way [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:16:48 <john> josema: every use case is relevant in several areas, then we repeat the dimensions problem
José Alonso: every use case is relevant in several areas, then we repeat the dimensions problem [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:19:00 <john> josema: example with transparency - not a technical topic, so changed to open government data
José Alonso: example with transparency - not a technical topic, so changed to open government data [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:19:47 <john> chris: whatabout social media - how to nail that from policy versus standards?
Christopher Testa: whatabout social media - how to nail that from policy versus standards? [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:21:07 <john> chris: we could surface, what are standards that underpin web 2.0 sites
Christopher Testa: we could surface, what are standards that underpin web 2.0 sites [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:21:39 <john> chris: want to see building of the business case for those at policy level
Christopher Testa: want to see building of the business case for those at policy level [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:23:19 <josema> john: another relevant point is how government can make good use of this
John Sheridan: another relevant point is how government can make good use of this ←
14:23:29 <josema> ... 2.0 stuff to do better decision making
... 2.0 stuff to do better decision making ←
14:23:52 <josema> ... SE taking over EU Presidency, it's my understanding they have much interest on this
... Sweden taking over EU Presidency, it's my understanding they have much interest on this ←
14:24:02 <josema> s/SE/Sweden
14:24:18 <josema> ... endorses the point you are making, problem is not about technology
... endorses the point you are making, problem is not about technology ←
14:25:02 <john> chris: how does W3C look at social media issues?
Christopher Testa: how does W3C look at social media issues? [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:26:14 <john> josema: what if you are putting video on youtube, then you have issue with content accessibility
José Alonso: what if you are putting video on youtube, then you have issue with content accessibility [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:26:30 <john> josema: what about data portability?
José Alonso: what about data portability? [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:27:21 <john> josema: these issues have been discussed for 3 years in W3C
José Alonso: these issues have been discussed for 3 years in W3C [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:28:02 <john> josema: depending on views of members, will be a basis for charter
José Alonso: depending on views of members, will be a basis for charter [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:28:16 <josema> rachel: I'm having hard time separating policy from standards
Rachel Flagg: I'm having hard time separating policy from standards ←
14:28:33 <josema> ... in the US, new government will make greater use of these tools
... in the US, new government will make greater use of these tools ←
14:29:20 <josema> ... maybe we should also consider the idea of what is doable and what is not?
... maybe we should also consider the idea of what is doable and what is not? ←
14:29:45 <josema> ... 2.0 is all about enabling, how to help government structure their data so that allow people
... 2.0 is all about enabling, how to help government structure their data so that allow people ←
14:29:59 <josema> ... to access that data to find the answers to their questions
... to access that data to find the answers to their questions ←
14:30:08 <josema> ... help people to help themselve
... help people to help Themselves ←
14:30:14 <josema> s/themselve/Themselves
14:30:19 <josema> s/T/t
14:30:34 <josema> john: agree, difficult to separate, very related
John Sheridan: agree, difficult to separate, very related ←
14:30:50 <josema> ... but in terms of the Note, what do we want as headings?
... but in terms of the Note, what do we want as headings? ←
14:31:06 <josema> ... policy-like vs. more technology-like
... policy-like vs. more technology-like ←
14:31:14 <josema> ... I can give example
... I can give example ←
14:31:30 <josema> ... say US gov has to decide what information to keep ling-term, what to destroy
... say US gov has to decide what information to keep ling-term, what to destroy ←
14:31:50 <josema> ... two public policy objectives, that may be contradictory
... two public policy objectives, that may be contradictory ←
14:32:33 <josema> ... keeping as less as you can vs. keep as much as you can
... keeping as less as you can vs. keep as much as you can ←
14:32:47 <josema> ... you can use technology to help you any of those
... you can use technology to help you any of those ←
14:33:33 <josema> ... our hope is as a W3C Group, to start with technology and go up to the policy area
... our hope is as a W3C Group, to start with technology and go up to the policy area ←
14:33:53 <josema> ... eg. you can use this technology to fulfill this policy goal, this way
... eg. you can use this technology to fulfill this policy goal, this way ←
14:34:26 <josema> chris: going through the draft, we should state this somewhere in the draft
Christopher Testa: going through the draft, we should state this somewhere in the draft ←
14:34:35 <josema> ... as early as possible in the document
... as early as possible in the document ←
14:35:11 <josema> rachel: yes, sometimes we want to do this or that but is not doable because of a given regulation
Rachel Flagg: yes, sometimes we want to do this or that but is not doable because of a given regulation ←
14:35:17 <josema> chris: agree
Christopher Testa: agree ←
14:36:01 <josema> [john goes through areas in the draft]
[john goes through areas in the draft] ←
14:37:15 <josema> [also about perceived hierarchy]
[also about perceived hierarchy] ←
14:38:36 <john> josema: the structure is based on personal experience talking to people
José Alonso: the structure is based on personal experience talking to people [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:40:49 <john> josema: outreaching type documentation has been very useful in past from W3C point of view
José Alonso: outreaching type documentation has been very useful in past from W3C point of view [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:41:50 <john> josema: most people reading documentation won't necessarily have in depth understanding
José Alonso: most people reading documentation won't necessarily have in depth understanding [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:43:06 <john> josema: we also have lots of vocabulary issues - people using different language for same idea/concept
José Alonso: we also have lots of vocabulary issues - people using different language for same idea/concept [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:44:04 <john> josema: documentation broader than developers, more project managers etc.
José Alonso: documentation broader than developers, more project managers etc. [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:44:35 <john> rachel: we need reference points - what things are and why
Rachel Flagg: we need reference points - what things are and why [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:45:25 <john> chris: this is why we should take business case point of view
Christopher Testa: this is why we should take business case point of view [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:45:56 <john> josema: use use cases to highlight real projects using this or that technology
José Alonso: use use cases to highlight real projects using this or that technology [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:46:35 <josema> regrets+ ari
regrets+ ari ←
14:47:00 <john> chris: potentially restating business problem, then use case in that context
Christopher Testa: potentially restating business problem, then use case in that context [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:47:23 <john> chris: focus on the problems
Christopher Testa: focus on the problems [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:48:54 <john> josema: is on hols from tomorrow - aim to have one or two sections finalised for group to see
José Alonso: is on hols from tomorrow - aim to have one or two sections finalised for group to see [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:49:51 <Zakim> + +1.202.626.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.202.626.aacc ←
14:50:13 <john> rachel: put open gov and engagement to the top
Rachel Flagg: put open gov and engagement to the top [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:51:17 <john> chris: terminology important, use terms that will attract people
Christopher Testa: terminology important, use terms that will attract people [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
14:53:16 <josema> zakim, aacc is kevin
zakim, aacc is kevin ←
14:53:16 <Zakim> +kevin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +kevin; got it ←
14:53:30 <josema> [rachel leaves]
[rachel leaves] ←
14:53:33 <Zakim> -rachel
Zakim IRC Bot: -rachel ←
14:53:56 <josema> john: interesting thing for me is two hot topics prioritized
John Sheridan: interesting thing for me is two hot topics prioritized ←
14:54:08 <josema> ... engagement and open government data
... engagement and open government data ←
14:54:32 <josema> ... which does not mean there are lot of people working on the other issues
... which does not mean there are lot of people working on the other issues ←
14:55:09 <josema> ... one selling point for OGD is our use of RDFa, that also helps solve some interoperability problems
... one selling point for OGD is our use of RDFa, that also helps solve some interoperability problems ←
14:57:50 <josema> [jose explains back/front of Multi-Channel delivery]
[jose explains back/front of Multi-Channel delivery] ←
14:58:04 <josema> chris: better to use "access" than "delivery"
Christopher Testa: better to use "access" than "delivery" ←
14:58:18 <josema> john: I've learned something there, in the UK context we talk about delivery
John Sheridan: I've learned something there, in the UK context we talk about delivery ←
14:58:45 <josema> ... we even have a Council named after that, working of the kind of issues jose mentioned
... we even have a Council named after that, working of the kind of issues jose mentioned ←
14:59:00 <josema> ... so, yes, we have a Delivery Council working on that
... so, yes, we have a Delivery Council working on that ←
14:59:34 <josema> chris: maybe we need both there
Christopher Testa: maybe we need both there ←
15:00:32 <john> josema: we need textual description of all the topics
José Alonso: we need textual description of all the topics [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
15:00:46 <john> josema: do we prioritise?
José Alonso: do we prioritise? [ Scribe Assist by John Sheridan ] ←
15:00:53 <john> the topics
John Sheridan: the topics ←
15:01:57 <josema> chris: participation, OGD, interop, Long term, Auth, Multi-Channel
Christopher Testa: participation, OGD, interop, Long term, Auth, Multi-Channel ←
15:02:05 <josema> ... if I had to prioritize
... if I had to prioritize ←
15:02:46 <josema> john: I would agree with first three, probably then do: Multi-channel, Auth, Long term
John Sheridan: I would agree with first three, probably then do: Multi-channel, Auth, Long term ←
15:03:08 <josema> ... but can we wrap Auth something else? eg. Multi Channel?
... but can we wrap Auth something else? eg. Multi Channel? ←
15:05:53 <josema> chris: +1 to john's
Christopher Testa: +1 to john's ←
15:07:30 <josema> josema: +1 to start with those
José Alonso: +1 to start with those ←
15:07:45 <josema> chris: and try to come up with more user friendly terminology
Christopher Testa: and try to come up with more user friendly terminology ←
15:11:43 <josema> kevin: have several things drafted on paper, will work on the computer
Kevin Novak: have several things drafted on paper, will work on the computer ←
15:11:56 <josema> ... and deliver something in a week or so from today
... and deliver something in a week or so from today ←
15:12:19 <josema> john: I will send something on the deadline or around it
John Sheridan: I will send something on the deadline or around it ←
15:13:13 <josema> josema: it's difficult to write the doc without the use cases
José Alonso: it's difficult to write the doc without the use cases ←
15:13:27 <josema> john: optimistic about setting up the deadline, hope more cases by then
John Sheridan: optimistic about setting up the deadline, hope more cases by then ←
15:14:52 <josema> chris: do we have anyone working on long term?
Christopher Testa: do we have anyone working on long term? ←
15:15:02 <josema> ... I could write some on persistence
... I could write some on persistence ←
15:19:43 <josema> trackbot, comment ACTION-34 chris to write a high level
trackbot, comment ACTION-34 chris to write a high level ←
15:19:43 <trackbot> ACTION-34 Document "Handle" use for THOMAS as use case for 2.Persistent URIs notes added
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-34 Document "Handle" use for THOMAS as use case for 2.Persistent URIs notes added ←
15:22:36 <josema> kevin: I'll meet with TimBL on January, if you have anything for me to say, please let me know in advance
15:23:35 <josema> john: one: how do we encourage governments to do some stuff TimBL believes they should do?
15:23:52 <josema> ... e.g. duty to publish open data
15:24:06 <josema> ... part of where our Group is
15:30:31 <josema> zakim, move to next agendum
(No events recorded for 6 minutes)
zakim, move to next agendum ←
15:30:31 <Zakim> agendum 3. "open actions" taken up [from josema]
15:30:37 <josema> [skipping this one]
[skipping this one] ←
15:30:44 <josema> zakim, move to next agendum
zakim, move to next agendum ←
15:30:44 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, josema
Zakim IRC Bot: agendum 3 was just opened, josema ←
15:30:49 <josema> zakim, move to next agendum
zakim, move to next agendum ←
15:30:49 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, josema
Zakim IRC Bot: agendum 3 was just opened, josema ←
15:30:54 <josema> zakim, close this agendum
zakim, close this agendum ←
15:30:54 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
Zakim IRC Bot: agendum 3 closed ←
15:30:55 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
Zakim IRC Bot: I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: ←
15:30:57 <Zakim> 4. next meeting [from josema]
Zakim IRC Bot: 4. next meeting [from josema] ←
15:31:07 <josema> zakim, move to next agendum
zakim, move to next agendum ←
15:31:07 <Zakim> agendum 4. "next meeting" taken up [from josema]
15:44:53 <josema> s/kevin: I'll meet with TimBL on January, if you have anything for me to say, please let me know in advance//
15:45:11 <josema> s/john: one: how do we encourage governments to do some stuff TimBL believes they should do?//
15:45:35 <Zakim> -kevin
(No events recorded for 14 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: -kevin ←
15:45:42 <Zakim> -chris
Zakim IRC Bot: -chris ←
15:45:45 <Zakim> -john
Zakim IRC Bot: -john ←
15:46:09 <josema> s/... e.g. duty to publish open data//
15:46:13 <josema> s/... part of where our Group is//
15:46:23 <josema> zakim, list attendees
zakim, list attendees ←
15:46:23 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.202.488.aaaa, Josema, chris, +1.509.464.aabb, rachel, john, +1.202.626.aacc, kevin
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been +1.202.488.aaaa, Josema, chris, +1.509.464.aabb, rachel, john, +1.202.626.aacc, kevin ←
15:46:29 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes
rrsagent, draft minutes ←
15:46:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/17-egov-minutes.html josema
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/17-egov-minutes.html josema ←
15:47:32 <josema> [next meeting: 7 Jan; 14:00Z]
[next meeting: 7 Jan; 14:00Z] ←
15:47:36 <josema> rrsagent, draft minutes
rrsagent, draft minutes ←
15:47:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/17-egov-minutes.html josema
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/12/17-egov-minutes.html josema ←
15:48:17 <josema> zakim, drop me
zakim, drop me ←
15:48:17 <Zakim> Josema is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: Josema is being disconnected ←
15:48:19 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended ←
15:48:20 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.202.488.aaaa, Josema, chris, +1.509.464.aabb, rachel, john, +1.202.626.aacc, kevin
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were +1.202.488.aaaa, Josema, chris, +1.509.464.aabb, rachel, john, +1.202.626.aacc, kevin ←
15:48:28 <josema> zakim, bye
zakim, bye ←
15:48:32 <josema> rrsagent, bye
rrsagent, bye ←
15:48:32 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
Formatted by CommonScribe