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12:59:26 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-egov-irc
RRSAgent IRC Bot: logging to http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-egov-irc ←
12:59:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
Trackbot IRC Bot: RRSAgent, make logs public ←
12:59:30 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be EGOV
Trackbot IRC Bot: Zakim, this will be EGOV ←
12:59:30 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM already started
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, trackbot, I see T&S_EGOV()9:00AM already started ←
12:59:31 <trackbot> Meeting: eGovernment Interest Group Teleconference
12:59:31 <trackbot> Date: 15 October 2008
12:59:40 <josema> chairs: john, kevin
Scribe problem: the name 'chairs' does not match any of the 39 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Amit Parashar Anne Washington Ari Schwartz Benjamin Nguyen Christopher Testa Dalila Chiadmi Ilker Karakas Jeffrey Sonstein John Sheridan John Wonderlich José Alonso Juan Rodríguez Rodríguez Katie Haritos-Shea Kevin Novak Kjetil Kjernsmo Laila Benhlima Malcolm Crompton Martin Mollema Mercedes Clark-Smith Oscar Azanon Esteire Owen Ambur Pasquale Popolizio Peter Krantz Pietro Russo Rachel Flagg Richard Murphy Rinke Hoekstra Roberto Castaldo Robin Berjon Rowan Smith Tanya Gupta Tim McMahon Tom van Engers Trond Undheim Vagner Diniz Vassilios Peristeras Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Unknown chairs: john, kevin [ Scribe Assist by José Alonso ] ←
12:59:48 <Owen> I have another telecon in a half hour so I won't be able to stay long.
Owen Ambur: I have another telecon in a half hour so I won't be able to stay long. ←
13:00:10 <john> is anyone on the telephone?
John Sheridan: is anyone on the telephone? ←
13:00:33 <josema> regrets: Benjamin, Roberto, Jeff, Pasquale, Vassilios, Ari, Kjetil (likely)
Scribe problem: the name 'Kjetil (likely)' does not match any of the 36 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Amit Parashar Anne Washington Ari Schwartz Benjamin Nguyen Christopher Testa Dalila Chiadmi Ilker Karakas Jeffrey Sonstein John Sheridan John Wonderlich José Alonso Juan Rodríguez Rodríguez Katie Haritos-Shea Kevin Novak Kjetil Kjernsmo Laila Benhlima Malcolm Crompton Martin Mollema Mercedes Clark-Smith Oscar Azanon Esteire Owen Ambur Pasquale Popolizio Peter Krantz Pietro Russo Rachel Flagg Richard Murphy Rinke Hoekstra Roberto Castaldo Robin Berjon Rowan Smith Tanya Gupta Tim McMahon Tom van Engers Trond Undheim Vagner Diniz Vassilios Peristeras
13:00:47 <josema> john, you can query zakim yourself
José Alonso: john, you can query zakim yourself ←
13:00:58 <josema> zakim, who's on the phone?
José Alonso: zakim, who's on the phone? ←
13:00:58 <Zakim> On the phone I see john
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see john ←
13:01:02 <josema> ha!
José Alonso: ha! ←
13:01:11 <Zakim> +Josema
Zakim IRC Bot: +Josema ←
13:01:38 <Zakim> + +31.61.830.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: + +31.61.830.aaaa ←
13:01:45 <Zakim> + +1.301.455.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.301.455.aabb ←
13:01:52 <josema> zakim, drop aaaa
José Alonso: zakim, drop aaaa ←
13:01:52 <Zakim> +31.61.830.aaaa is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: +31.61.830.aaaa is being disconnected ←
13:01:53 <Zakim> - +31.61.830.aaaa
Zakim IRC Bot: - +31.61.830.aaaa ←
13:02:32 <josema> can anybody hear me on the phone?
José Alonso: can anybody hear me on the phone? ←
13:02:37 <john> no
John Sheridan: no ←
13:02:41 <josema> :(
José Alonso: :( ←
13:03:08 <josema> zakim, unmute me
José Alonso: zakim, unmute me ←
13:03:08 <Zakim> Josema was not muted, josema
Zakim IRC Bot: Josema was not muted, josema ←
13:03:14 <john> I heard something
John Sheridan: I heard something ←
13:03:21 <Zakim> + +31.61.830.aacc
Zakim IRC Bot: + +31.61.830.aacc ←
13:03:46 <josema> zakim, drop me
José Alonso: zakim, drop me ←
13:03:53 <josema> zakim, call josema-office
José Alonso: zakim, call josema-office ←
13:03:55 <Zakim> Josema is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: Josema is being disconnected ←
13:03:59 <Zakim> -Josema
Zakim IRC Bot: -Josema ←
13:04:07 <Zakim> ok, josema; the call is being made
Zakim IRC Bot: ok, josema; the call is being made ←
13:04:13 <Zakim> +Josema
Zakim IRC Bot: +Josema ←
13:04:49 <Zakim> + +1.509.464.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.464.aadd ←
13:06:12 <josema> zakim, aacc is martin
José Alonso: zakim, aacc is martin ←
13:06:12 <Zakim> +martin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +martin; got it ←
13:06:23 <josema> zakim, who's here?
José Alonso: zakim, who's here? ←
13:06:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see john, Josema, +1.301.455.aabb, martin, +1.509.464.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see john, Josema, +1.301.455.aabb, martin, +1.509.464.aadd ←
13:06:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Owen, Vagner, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Owen, Vagner, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot ←
13:07:03 <josema> zakim, drop aabb
José Alonso: zakim, drop aabb ←
13:07:03 <Zakim> +1.301.455.aabb is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: +1.301.455.aabb is being disconnected ←
13:07:04 <Zakim> - +1.301.455.aabb
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.301.455.aabb ←
13:07:14 <josema> zakim, drop aadd
José Alonso: zakim, drop aadd ←
13:07:14 <Zakim> +1.509.464.aadd is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: +1.509.464.aadd is being disconnected ←
13:07:16 <Zakim> - +1.509.464.aadd
Zakim IRC Bot: - +1.509.464.aadd ←
13:07:20 <Zakim> + +1.202.731.aaee
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.202.731.aaee ←
13:07:57 <josema> zakim, aaee is kevin
José Alonso: zakim, aaee is kevin ←
13:07:57 <Zakim> +kevin; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +kevin; got it ←
13:08:06 <josema> zakim, who's here?
José Alonso: zakim, who's here? ←
13:08:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see john, Josema, martin, kevin
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see john, Josema, martin, kevin ←
13:08:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Owen, Vagner, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Owen, Vagner, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot ←
13:08:48 <Zakim> + +1.509.464.aaff
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.509.464.aaff ←
13:09:06 <josema> zakim, aaff is rachel
José Alonso: zakim, aaff is rachel ←
13:09:06 <Zakim> +rachel; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +rachel; got it ←
13:09:11 <Zakim> + +1.301.455.aagg
Zakim IRC Bot: + +1.301.455.aagg ←
13:09:32 <josema> zakim, aagg is owen
José Alonso: zakim, aagg is owen ←
13:09:32 <Zakim> +owen; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +owen; got it ←
13:09:42 <josema> zakim, who's here?
José Alonso: zakim, who's here? ←
13:09:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see john, Josema, martin, kevin, rachel, owen
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see john, Josema, martin, kevin, rachel, owen ←
13:09:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see Rachel, RRSAgent, Owen, Vagner, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Rachel, RRSAgent, Owen, Vagner, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot ←
13:09:56 <josema> agenda?
José Alonso: agenda? ←
13:10:29 <josema> move to next agendum
José Alonso: move to next agendum ←
13:10:29 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Convene, agenda adjustments" taken up [from josema]
13:10:36 <Zakim> +??P29
Zakim IRC Bot: +??P29 ←
13:10:57 <josema> zakim, P29 is trond
José Alonso: zakim, P29 is trond ←
13:10:57 <Zakim> sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'P29'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'P29' ←
13:11:05 <josema> zakim, ??P29 is trond
José Alonso: zakim, ??P29 is trond ←
13:11:05 <Zakim> +trond; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +trond; got it ←
13:11:48 <josema> [scribe list: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Scribe_List]
José Alonso: [scribe list: http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Scribe_List] ←
13:12:54 <josema> scribe: josema
(Scribe set to José Alonso)
13:13:17 <josema> john: any agenda adjustments?
John Sheridan: any agenda adjustments? ←
13:13:21 <josema> [none heard]
[none heard] ←
13:13:29 <josema> move to next agendum
move to next agendum ←
13:13:29 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Introductions - new people onboard? (+ appoint a scribe)" taken up [from josema]
13:13:44 <josema> zakim, who's here?
zakim, who's here? ←
13:13:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see john, Josema, martin, kevin, rachel, owen, trond
Zakim IRC Bot: On the phone I see john, Josema, martin, kevin, rachel, owen, trond ←
13:13:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see Rachel, RRSAgent, Owen, Vagner, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see Rachel, RRSAgent, Owen, Vagner, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot ←
13:14:59 <josema> martin: dutch government foundation leading with IT implementations
Martin Mollema: dutch government foundation leading with IT implementations ←
13:15:12 <josema> ... OSS, also participate in IDABC stuff
... OSS, also participate in IDABC stuff ←
13:15:23 <josema> [all the rest are known :)]
[all the rest are known :)] ←
13:15:54 <josema> agenda?
agenda? ←
13:16:02 <josema> move to next agendum
move to next agendum ←
13:16:06 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Basic IRC recap and a quick play" taken up [from josema]
13:16:29 <Zakim> + +55115509aahh
Zakim IRC Bot: + +55115509aahh ←
13:17:33 <josema> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Teleconferences#How-to_join__-_IRC
http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Teleconferences#How-to_join__-_IRC ←
13:18:18 <josema> http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot
http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot ←
13:18:51 <john> q?
John Sheridan: q? ←
13:19:22 <Zakim> +OCR
Zakim IRC Bot: +OCR ←
13:19:24 <Vagner> Vagner, from Brazil, joined
Vagner Diniz: Vagner, from Brazil, joined ←
13:19:36 <josema> zakim, aahh is Vagner
zakim, aahh is Vagner ←
13:19:36 <Zakim> +Vagner; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Vagner; got it ←
13:19:44 <josema> zakim, OCR is oscar
zakim, OCR is oscar ←
13:19:44 <Zakim> +oscar; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +oscar; got it ←
13:20:09 <josema> q?
q? ←
13:20:21 <josema> q+ I have this question
q+ I have this question ←
13:20:26 <josema> q+ to I have this question
q+ to I have this question ←
13:20:29 <josema> q?
q? ←
13:20:43 <josema> ack josema
ack josema ←
13:20:43 <Zakim> josema, you wanted to I have this question
Zakim IRC Bot: josema, you wanted to I have this question ←
13:21:13 <josema> move to next agendum
move to next agendum ←
13:21:14 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Review of action items" taken up [from josema]
13:21:32 <josema> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/actions/open
http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/track/actions/open ←
13:22:40 <Zakim> -martin
Zakim IRC Bot: -martin ←
13:22:53 <josema> close ACTION-10
13:22:53 <trackbot> ACTION-10 Discuss themes by email by Monday closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-10 Discuss themes by email by Monday closed ←
13:22:57 <josema> close ACTION-11
13:22:57 <trackbot> ACTION-11 Discuss themes by email by Monday closed
Trackbot IRC Bot: ACTION-11 Discuss themes by email by Monday closed ←
13:23:09 <josema> [done and in the agenda and list]
[done and in the agenda and list] ←
13:23:14 <josema> move to next agendum
move to next agendum ←
13:23:14 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Preparing for the face to face" taken up [from josema]
13:23:15 <Zakim> +martin
Zakim IRC Bot: +martin ←
13:24:13 <john> q?
John Sheridan: q? ←
13:24:18 <josema> [john explains the themes sent to the list and how to prepare F2F]
[john explains the themes sent to the list and how to prepare F2F] ←
13:25:08 <josema> john: chairs discussed about structure of use cases and number
John Sheridan: chairs discussed about structure of use cases and number ←
13:25:22 <josema> ...only one so far; we would like to come up with more
...only one so far; we would like to come up with more ←
13:25:48 <josema> ...people to submit one case before the F2F and have the F2F agenda
...people to submit one case before the F2F and have the F2F agenda ←
13:25:53 <josema> ...built around those
...built around those ←
13:25:56 <josema> ... thoughts?
...thoughts? ←
13:26:03 <josema> s/... /...
13:26:38 <josema> -> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Use_Cases Use Cases
-> http://www.w3.org/2007/eGov/IG/wiki/Use_Cases Use Cases ←
13:26:44 <josema> john: volunteers?
John Sheridan: volunteers? ←
13:26:52 <josema> [none heard]
[none heard] ←
13:27:40 <josema> john: in the post I made on Monday I proposed 10 possible cases
John Sheridan: in the post I made on Monday I proposed 10 possible cases ←
13:27:46 <Zakim> +[LC]
Zakim IRC Bot: +[LC] ←
13:27:48 <josema> ...and areas we would need to explore
...and areas we would need to explore ←
13:27:56 <josema> ...perhaps we need more
...perhaps we need more ←
13:28:06 <josema> zakim, LC is Anne
zakim, LC is Anne ←
13:28:06 <Zakim> +Anne; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +Anne; got it ←
13:29:13 <josema> john: I would expect us to come up with some outlined use cases
John Sheridan: I would expect us to come up with some outlined use cases ←
13:29:36 <josema> john: changing slightly the topic
John Sheridan: changing slightly the topic ←
13:29:52 <josema> ...why none heard so far?
...why none heard so far? ←
13:30:03 <josema> ...is that because they are not useful?
...is that because they would not useful? ←
13:30:15 <josema> s/are not/would not
13:30:34 <josema> owen: number of regrets may be because of use cases not that important
Owen Ambur: number of regrets may be because of use cases not that important ←
13:30:37 <josema> ...people busy
...people busy ←
13:30:48 <josema> anne: use cases could be very helpful to focus ideas
Anne Washington: use cases could be very helpful to focus ideas ←
13:31:13 <josema> ...this is a problem database, but not sure it's obvious
...this is a problem database, but not sure it's obvious ←
13:31:23 <josema> ...for everybody to volunteer and participate
...for everybody to volunteer and participate ←
13:31:53 <josema> john: eg. show us a better way competition in the UK
John Sheridan: eg. show us a better way competition in the UK ←
13:32:09 <josema> ...I already got about 100 use cases from that
...I already got about 100 use cases from that ←
13:32:14 <josema> ...amazing work
...amazing work ←
13:32:57 <josema> ->http://www.showusabetterway.co.uk/ Show Us a Better Way competition
->http://www.showusabetterway.co.uk/ Show Us a Better Way competition ←
13:33:08 <josema> [scribe lost a bit here]
[scribe lost a bit here] ←
13:33:45 <Owen> I didn't mean to suggest that use cases may not be helpful but, merely, that the fact others have not provided any yet is a reflection of the fact they are busy. They should contribute whatever they can.
Owen Ambur: I didn't mean to suggest that use cases may not be helpful but, merely, that the fact others have not provided any yet is a reflection of the fact they are busy. They should contribute whatever they can. ←
13:34:08 <josema> kevin: we should try to concentrate on a small set of cases to show the main areas
Kevin Novak: we should try to concentrate on a small set of cases to show the main areas ←
13:34:20 <josema> ...and we want to achieve
...and we want to achieve ←
13:34:59 <josema> anne: I think the structure of groups works for me
Anne Washington: I think the structure of groups works for me ←
13:35:57 <josema> john: do you think there are some US gov cases that could fit there??
John Sheridan: do you think there are some US gov cases that could fit there?? ←
13:36:26 <josema> anne:??
Anne Washington: ?? ←
13:37:00 <josema> [john talks about pattern behind the competition...]
[john talks about pattern behind the competition...] ←
13:37:54 <Zakim> -Josema
Zakim IRC Bot: -Josema ←
13:38:01 <Zakim> +Josema
Zakim IRC Bot: +Josema ←
13:38:48 <josema> [scribe lost phone connection, hence a couple minutes]
[scribe lost phone connection, hence a couple minutes] ←
13:39:31 <josema> john: I see people asking for help to each others in forums about taxation
John Sheridan: I see people asking for help to each others in forums about taxation ←
13:39:48 <josema> ...if we could engage the government there to help them, it'd be interesting case to explore
...if we could engage the government there to help them, it'd be interesting case to explore ←
13:40:01 <josema> anne: maybe we just need good stories about why that's happening
Anne Washington: maybe we just need good stories about why that's happening ←
13:40:06 <Owen> The U.S. federal Web Content Managers strategic plan is available at http://xml.gov/stratml/WCMstratplan.xml I suppose it could be considered to be a set of use cases for the eGov IG.
Owen Ambur: The U.S. federal Web Content Managers strategic plan is available at http://xml.gov/stratml/WCMstratplan.xml I suppose it could be considered to be a set of use cases for the eGov IG. ←
13:40:17 <josema> kevin: we talked previously about persona-like approach
Kevin Novak: we talked previously about persona-like approach ←
13:40:20 <josema> anne: makes sense
Anne Washington: makes sense ←
13:40:56 <josema> rachel: do we want stories and successes and also some that recognize we have some work to do?
Rachel Flagg: do we want stories and successes and also some that recognize we have some work to do? ←
13:41:22 <josema> kevin: both, gap analysis is also useful to identify what's missing
Kevin Novak: both, gap analysis is also useful to identify what's missing ←
13:41:48 <josema> rachel: speaking as US executive branch, I think UK is ahead of us
Rachel Flagg: speaking of US executive branch, I think UK is ahead of us ←
13:42:09 <josema> ...we have good information but not good transformational, it's too fragmented
...we have good information but not good transformational, it's too fragmented ←
13:42:21 <josema> ...this is a big challenge
...this is a big challenge ←
13:42:34 <josema> s/speaking as/speaking of
13:42:41 <josema> regrets+ rinke
regrets+ rinke ←
13:42:49 <josema> agenda?
agenda? ←
13:43:54 <josema> john: I understand some of the good stories will show some issues
John Sheridan: I understand some of the good stories will show some issues ←
13:44:19 <josema> move to next agendum
move to next agendum ←
13:44:19 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Use Case framework" taken up [from josema]
13:44:24 <josema> zakim, who is noisy?
zakim, who is noisy? ←
13:44:35 <Zakim> josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: martin (21%), Josema (9%)
Zakim IRC Bot: josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: martin (21%), Josema (9%) ←
13:45:50 <josema> [johns asks for input about F2F, and what we should bring from there]
[john asks for input about F2F, and what we should bring from there] ←
13:45:53 <martinmollema> I'll try
Martin Mollema: I'll try ←
13:45:59 <josema> s/johns/john
13:47:44 <josema> move to next agendum
move to next agendum ←
13:47:44 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Candidate Use Cases" taken up [from josema]
13:48:25 <josema> zakim, who is noisy?
zakim, who is noisy? ←
13:48:35 <Zakim> josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: john (49%), martin (34%)
Zakim IRC Bot: josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: john (49%), martin (34%) ←
13:50:10 <martinmollema> ok, I couldn't mute my mobile doesn't allow
Martin Mollema: ok, I couldn't mute my mobile doesn't allow ←
13:50:15 <josema> [john reviews web basics and ideas sent to the list around use cases and framework]
[john reviews web basics and ideas sent to the list around use cases and framework] ←
13:50:53 <kjetil> Zakim, what is the code?
Kjetil Kjernsmo: Zakim, what is the code? ←
13:50:53 <Zakim> the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), kjetil
Zakim IRC Bot: the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 tel:+33.4.89.06.34.99 tel:+44.117.370.6152), kjetil ←
13:51:01 <josema> john: how much effort we should put into the framework and how much on "web basics"
John Sheridan: how much effort we should put into the framework and how much on "web basics" ←
13:51:11 <josema> ...keeping in mind money is very short
...keeping in mind money is very short ←
13:51:14 <Zakim> + +2
Zakim IRC Bot: + +2 ←
13:51:19 <kjetil> +2 is me
Kjetil Kjernsmo: +2 is me ←
13:51:28 <john> q?
John Sheridan: q? ←
13:51:30 <kjetil> Zakim, +2 is me
Kjetil Kjernsmo: Zakim, +2 is me ←
13:51:30 <Zakim> +kjetil; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +kjetil; got it ←
13:52:02 <josema> zakim, who's noisy?
zakim, who's noisy? ←
13:52:12 <Zakim> josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 11 (31%), john (91%), kjetil (25%)
Zakim IRC Bot: josema, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: 11 (31%), john (91%), kjetil (25%) ←
13:52:33 <josema> zakim, mute kjetil
zakim, mute kjetil ←
13:52:33 <Zakim> kjetil should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: kjetil should now be muted ←
13:52:46 <josema> zakim, who's 11?
zakim, who's 11? ←
13:52:46 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, josema.
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand your question, josema. ←
13:54:11 <josema> anne: first call for me
Anne Washington: first call for me ←
13:54:17 <josema> vagner: same
Vagner Diniz: same ←
13:54:40 <martinmollema> As this is my first call and as I am muted Iam just absorbing
Martin Mollema: As this is my first call and as I am muted Iam just absorbing ←
13:55:31 <josema> [some talk about current situation and how it will affect eGov projects]
[some talk about current situation and how it will affect eGov projects] ←
13:56:11 <josema> owen: is money an issue for us, for this Group?
Owen Ambur: is money an issue for us, for this Group? ←
13:56:46 <josema> anne: we don't financial resources perse
Anne Washington: we don't financial resources "per se" ←
13:56:59 <josema> ...just talking and working and sharing
...just talking and working and sharing ←
13:57:08 <josema> s/perse/"per se"
13:57:33 <josema> john: in terms of sharing it costs nothing
John Sheridan: in terms of sharing it costs nothing ←
13:57:43 <josema> ...and magical knowledge transfers happen
...and magical knowledge transfers happen ←
13:58:06 <kjetil> q+
Kjetil Kjernsmo: q+ ←
13:58:08 <josema> ...great in hard times that we'll experience in 2-3 years
...great in hard times that we'll experience in 2-3 years ←
13:58:38 <josema> ...where we need learning to save
...where we need learning to save ←
13:59:03 <josema> ...my personal view is being able to do lots with little money is a great story
...my personal view is being able to do lots with little money is a great story ←
13:59:22 <josema> q?
q? ←
13:59:33 <kjetil> ack me
Kjetil Kjernsmo: ack me ←
13:59:34 <josema> ack k
ack k ←
14:00:15 <john> q?
John Sheridan: q? ←
14:00:16 <josema> kjetil: in Norway is affecting public sector at large ???
Kjetil Kjernsmo: in Norway is affecting public sector at large ??? ←
14:01:26 <josema> zakim, mute kj
zakim, mute kj ←
14:01:26 <Zakim> kjetil should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: kjetil should now be muted ←
14:02:24 <josema> john: I'm wondering if "can we do more with very little?"
John Sheridan: I'm wondering if "can we do more with very little?" ←
14:02:25 <kjetil> in Norway, we expect to do more work for eGov since the state has sufficient money, it has been holding back to not overheat the economy
Kjetil Kjernsmo: in Norway, we expect to do more work for eGov since the state has sufficient money, it has been holding back to not overheat the economy ←
14:02:39 <josema> ...is something we should use as theme?
...is something we should use as theme? ←
14:03:18 <josema> anne: I think that "share what we can" is a very important argument
Anne Washington: I think that "share what we can" is a very important argument ←
14:03:22 <kjetil> now that the prices for our services are goind down somewhat, the government may well take advantage of the situation to increase public spending
Kjetil Kjernsmo: now that the prices for our services are goind down somewhat, the government may well take advantage of the situation to increase public spending ←
14:03:23 <josema> rachel: +1
Rachel Flagg: +1 ←
14:04:14 <josema> john: I encourage group members to document a success or a challenge and share it with the Group
John Sheridan: I encourage group members to document a success or a challenge and share it with the Group ←
14:05:17 <josema> agenda?
agenda? ←
14:05:51 <josema> john: value for money, web basics and stories/use cases could be the main three things to work n
John Sheridan: value for money, web basics and stories/use cases could be the main three things to work n ←
14:05:54 <josema> ...comments?
...comments? ←
14:06:41 <josema> [none heard]
[none heard] ←
14:08:16 <josema> rachel: I would probably add something about "plain language", helping people to find what they need
Rachel Flagg: I would probably add something about "plain language", helping people to find what they need ←
14:08:25 <josema> ...and not use much government technical terms
...and not use much government technical terms ←
14:09:04 <josema> ...we have writing standards, peer review, maybe sth like this could be added
...we have writing standards, peer review, maybe sth like this could be added ←
14:09:09 <josema> john: good example
John Sheridan: good example ←
14:09:30 <josema> ...resource discovery is a tricky issue
...resource discovery is a tricky issue ←
14:09:45 <josema> ...difference in government and citizen terms to search for something
...difference in government and citizen terms to search for something ←
14:10:10 <josema> I could provide an example on that
I could provide an example on that ←
14:10:21 <josema> I = jose = scribe
I = jose = scribe ←
14:11:08 <Zakim> -kevin
Zakim IRC Bot: -kevin ←
14:12:23 <josema> [jose talks about SW to match those]
[jose talks about SW to match those] ←
14:13:20 <josema> in fact, it was already published: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/CTIC/
in fact, it was already published: http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/sweo/public/UseCases/CTIC/ ←
14:13:55 <kjetil> q+
Kjetil Kjernsmo: q+ ←
14:14:28 <john> ack next
John Sheridan: ack next ←
14:16:38 <kjetil> Zakim: mute me
14:16:45 <josema> zakim, mute kj
zakim, mute kj ←
14:16:45 <Zakim> kjetil should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: kjetil should now be muted ←
14:17:32 <josema> john: recap: use cases around languages, semantics to mediate between man in the street and government...
John Sheridan: recap: use cases around languages, semantics to mediate between man in the street and government... ←
14:17:42 <josema> ...anything else?
...anything else? ←
14:17:44 <kjetil> An acquitance of the Computas Semweb group wrote a master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they search for support from the state
Kjetil Kjernsmo: An acquitance of the Computas Semweb group wrote a master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they search for support from the state ←
14:18:03 <kjetil> so that they can more easily find what rights they actually have, but that is hard to find
Kjetil Kjernsmo: so that they can more easily find what rights they actually have, but that is hard to find ←
14:18:31 <josema> rachel: thanks john for laying out the "straw man" discussion
Rachel Flagg: thanks john for laying out the "straw man" discussion ←
14:18:32 <kjetil> I took an action to send an email to the people who wrote this and ask them to submit it to us
Kjetil Kjernsmo: I took an action to send an email to the people who wrote this and ask them to submit it to us ←
14:20:09 <martinmollema> There is a research going on in the netherlands, on the search engine for citizens to browse through all different government organisations, aiming to provide the correct information.
Martin Mollema: There is a research going on in the netherlands, on the search engine for citizens to browse through all different government organisations, aiming to provide the correct information. ←
14:20:33 <josema> ack martin
ack martin ←
14:20:38 <martinmollema> i am muted
Martin Mollema: i am muted ←
14:20:46 <josema> ack martin
ack martin ←
14:21:09 <josema> ACTION kjetil to send an email to the people who wrote wrote a master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they search for support from the state
ACTION kjetil to send an email to the people who wrote wrote a master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they search for support from the state ←
14:21:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-13 - Send an email to the people who wrote wrote a master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they search for support from the state [on Kjetil Kjernsmo - due 2008-10-22].
Trackbot IRC Bot: Created ACTION-13 - Send an email to the people who wrote wrote a master's thesis about using the Semantic Web to support citizens when they search for support from the state [on Kjetil Kjernsmo - due 2008-10-22]. ←
14:21:51 <josema> martin: project in NL that extends up to 600 organizations
Martin Mollema: project in NL that extends up to 600 organizations ←
14:22:11 <josema> ...adding semantics so when a person needs to contact a given org
...adding semantics so when a person needs to contact a given org ←
14:22:30 <josema> ..he/she should not worry about who is in charge, but the system will help
..he/she should not worry about who is in charge, but the system will help ←
14:22:43 <josema> zakim, mute martin
zakim, mute martin ←
14:22:43 <Zakim> martin should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: martin should now be muted ←
14:23:19 <martinmollema> ok thanx
Martin Mollema: ok thanx ←
14:23:22 <josema> ...the citizen to contact the right one within the gov
...the citizen to contact the right one within the gov ←
14:23:30 <josema> ...will ask people in charge
...will ask people in charge ←
14:23:38 <josema> john: this was a useful conversation
John Sheridan: this was a useful conversation ←
14:23:41 <josema> agenda?
agenda? ←
14:24:29 <josema> john: any burning issues left out?
John Sheridan: any burning issues left out? ←
14:24:34 <Owen> I need to sign off.
Owen Ambur: I need to sign off. ←
14:24:39 <Zakim> -owen
Zakim IRC Bot: -owen ←
14:25:01 <josema> ...eg: accessibility, should we have a story just about it or spread over others?
...eg: accessibility, should we have a story just about it or spread over others? ←
14:25:35 <josema> anne: in some cases, we might want to build on others work
Anne Washington: in some cases, we might want to build on others work ←
14:25:54 <josema> john: value we can add is contextualizing
John Sheridan: value we can add is contextualizing ←
14:25:56 <josema> anne: +1
Anne Washington: +1 ←
14:26:32 <josema> zakim, list attendants
zakim, list attendants ←
14:26:32 <Zakim> I don't understand 'list attendants', josema
Zakim IRC Bot: I don't understand 'list attendants', josema ←
14:27:04 <josema> zakim, list attendees
zakim, list attendees ←
14:27:05 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been john, Josema, +31.61.830.aaaa, +1.301.455.aabb, +31.61.830.aacc, +1.509.464.aadd, martin, +1.202.731.aaee, kevin, +1.509.464.aaff, rachel,
Zakim IRC Bot: As of this point the attendees have been john, Josema, +31.61.830.aaaa, +1.301.455.aabb, +31.61.830.aacc, +1.509.464.aadd, martin, +1.202.731.aaee, kevin, +1.509.464.aaff, rachel, ←
14:27:12 <Zakim> ... +1.301.455.aagg, owen, trond, +55115509aahh, Vagner, oscar, Anne, kjetil
Zakim IRC Bot: ... +1.301.455.aagg, owen, trond, +55115509aahh, Vagner, oscar, Anne, kjetil ←
14:27:34 <josema> zakim, washingtona is anne
zakim, washingtona is anne ←
14:27:34 <Zakim> sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'washingtona'
Zakim IRC Bot: sorry, josema, I do not recognize a party named 'washingtona' ←
14:27:47 <josema> zakim, anne is washingtona
zakim, anne is washingtona ←
14:27:47 <Zakim> +washingtona; got it
Zakim IRC Bot: +washingtona; got it ←
14:27:49 <john> q?
John Sheridan: q? ←
14:28:30 <josema> john: trust/provenance also an important topic
John Sheridan: trust/provenance also an important topic ←
14:28:46 <josema> rachel: trust issue is a very big one for us
Rachel Flagg: trust issue is a very big one for us ←
14:29:17 <john> q?
John Sheridan: q? ←
14:29:45 <josema> ...make us nervous about what it will done with the info
...make us nervous about what it will done with the info ←
14:30:09 <josema> john: I understand... and context is important...
John Sheridan: I understand... and context is important... ←
14:32:02 <josema> ...is misuse a big concern of yours?
...is misuse a big concern of yours? ←
14:32:57 <josema> rachel: case of purported government info worries me
Rachel Flagg: case of purported government info worries me ←
14:33:07 <kjetil> Zakim: q+
14:33:16 <kjetil> q+
Kjetil Kjernsmo: q+ ←
14:33:20 <john> ack next
John Sheridan: ack next ←
14:33:56 <Zakim> -trond
Zakim IRC Bot: -trond ←
14:34:40 <josema> kjetil: digital signatures, powerful stuff to avoid these issues
Kjetil Kjernsmo: digital signatures, powerful stuff to avoid these issues ←
14:34:51 <john> sorry - holding phone, typing, thinking - its a whole new multitasking experience!
John Sheridan: sorry - holding phone, typing, thinking - its a whole new multitasking experience! ←
14:35:55 <john> I know :)
John Sheridan: I know :) ←
14:37:19 <john> ?q
John Sheridan: ?q ←
14:37:20 <kjetil> Zakim, mute me
Kjetil Kjernsmo: Zakim, mute me ←
14:37:20 <Zakim> kjetil should now be muted
Zakim IRC Bot: kjetil should now be muted ←
14:37:37 <josema> john: recap at the F2F, maybe come up with another couple cases in the morning
John Sheridan: recap at the F2F, maybe come up with another couple cases in the morning ←
14:37:44 <josema> ...shape them in the afternoon
...shape them in the afternoon ←
14:37:49 <josema> move to next agendum
move to next agendum ←
14:37:49 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Next Meeting" taken up [from josema]
14:38:05 <josema> Next meeting: F2F, then 29 Oct
Next meeting: F2F, then 29 Oct ←
14:38:33 <josema> john: we have a little bit more clarity for F2F
John Sheridan: we have a little bit more clarity for F2F ←
14:38:42 <josema> ... a couple more areas to work on
... a couple more areas to work on ←
14:38:53 <josema> ...and useful conversation today
...and useful conversation today ←
14:39:16 <josema> ...encourage you to post your thoughts before next week
...encourage you to post your thoughts before next week ←
14:39:22 <josema> ...so we could take up at the F2F
...so we could take up at the F2F ←
14:39:44 <john> q?
John Sheridan: q? ←
14:39:53 <josema> [ADJOURNED]
[ADJOURNED] ←
14:40:51 <Zakim> -washingtona
Scribe problem: the name 'washingtona' does not match any of the 39 active names. Either change the name used, or request the list of names be altered.Active names: Amit Parashar Anne Washington Ari Schwartz Benjamin Nguyen Christopher Testa Dalila Chiadmi Ilker Karakas Jeffrey Sonstein John Sheridan John Wonderlich José Alonso Juan Rodríguez Rodríguez Katie Haritos-Shea Kevin Novak Kjetil Kjernsmo Laila Benhlima Malcolm Crompton Martin Mollema Mercedes Clark-Smith Oscar Azanon Esteire Owen Ambur Pasquale Popolizio Peter Krantz Pietro Russo Rachel Flagg Richard Murphy Rinke Hoekstra Roberto Castaldo Robin Berjon Rowan Smith Tanya Gupta Tim McMahon Tom van Engers Trond Undheim Vagner Diniz Vassilios Peristeras Zakim IRC Bot Trackbot IRC Bot RRSAgent IRC Bot
Zakim IRC Bot: -washingtona ←
14:40:53 <Zakim> -rachel
Zakim IRC Bot: -rachel ←
14:40:56 <Zakim> -kjetil
Zakim IRC Bot: -kjetil ←
14:40:58 <Zakim> -martin
Zakim IRC Bot: -martin ←
14:40:59 <Zakim> -oscar
Zakim IRC Bot: -oscar ←
14:41:04 <josema> RRSagent, draft minutes
RRSagent, draft minutes ←
14:41:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-egov-minutes.html josema
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-egov-minutes.html josema ←
14:41:36 <josema> zakim, drop vagner
zakim, drop vagner ←
14:41:36 <Zakim> Vagner is being disconnected
Zakim IRC Bot: Vagner is being disconnected ←
14:41:37 <Zakim> -Vagner
Zakim IRC Bot: -Vagner ←
14:47:58 <Zakim> -Josema
(No events recorded for 6 minutes)
Zakim IRC Bot: -Josema ←
14:47:59 <Zakim> T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended
Zakim IRC Bot: T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended ←
14:48:01 <Zakim> Attendees were john, Josema, +31.61.830.aaaa, +1.301.455.aabb, +31.61.830.aacc, +1.509.464.aadd, martin, +1.202.731.aaee, kevin, +1.509.464.aaff, rachel, +1.301.455.aagg, owen,
Zakim IRC Bot: Attendees were john, Josema, +31.61.830.aaaa, +1.301.455.aabb, +31.61.830.aacc, +1.509.464.aadd, martin, +1.202.731.aaee, kevin, +1.509.464.aaff, rachel, +1.301.455.aagg, owen, ←
14:48:03 <Zakim> ... trond, +55115509aahh, Vagner, oscar, kjetil, washingtona
Zakim IRC Bot: ... trond, +55115509aahh, Vagner, oscar, kjetil, washingtona ←
14:48:46 <josema> zakim, who's here?
zakim, who's here? ←
14:48:46 <Zakim> apparently T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended, josema
Zakim IRC Bot: apparently T&S_EGOV()9:00AM has ended, josema ←
14:48:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot
Zakim IRC Bot: On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, john, josema, kjetil, trackbot ←
14:49:15 <josema> regrets+ chris
regrets+ chris ←
14:49:21 <josema> RRSAgent, draft minutes
RRSAgent, draft minutes ←
14:49:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-egov-minutes.html josema
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2008/10/15-egov-minutes.html josema ←
15:07:30 <josema> zakim, bye
(No events recorded for 18 minutes)
zakim, bye ←
15:07:34 <josema> RRSAgent, bye
RRSAgent, bye ←
15:07:34 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
RRSAgent IRC Bot: I see no action items ←
Formatted by CommonScribe